Greetings Mutineers! I am Nayagan and I am guest-blogging here to fight the good fight for pittu, sodhi and the thosai which embraces us all in it’s fermented glory.
Listen up desi parents: Bina Menon, a classical dance teacher from West Orange NY, has the magical cure to all your ‘heritage preserving’ needs. Indeed, according to the New York Times, a turn in one of her stage productions (portraying an animal of the forest) will do wonders for lifting the Vestern pop-culture cloud which descended over your child’s eyes as soon as he/she exited the womb.
Yes, I know, the reporter attributed the sentiment to Menon’s students, but what exactly could these young ‘uns have known about a heritage which was supposedly out of their grasp? Could this deep knowledge be imparted by scratching one’s arm-pit repeatedly? Or perhaps by miming the grooming ritual so fancied by wild-life photographers? Whatever the standard, this reporter unwittingly added fuel to the “All Things Come From India” fire by attributing an honorific desis know all too well
dancing with Bina-Auntie
to the Hindi crowd:
employing a Hindi term of endearment all her fellow dancers used for Ms. Menon
Okay, to be charitable to the reporter, and without sounding the Lemurian call to arms, perhaps this was really all about the dance. The one student who went on record, seems to confirm this:
“My parents brought me into dance when I was 5, and at first I wasn’t that into it,†said Teena Ammakuzhiyil, a lithe 20-year-old from Union who will play the wise monkey in “Ramayanam,†a production that 25 senior-level dancers from Ms. Menon’s Kalashri School will present on Jan. 27 at the Mayo Center for the Performing Arts in Morristown. “But it brought me back to my roots, dancing with Bina-Auntie,â€
But the ‘roots’ return and the question bears asking, now that she has ‘found’ her roots, what’s left? Branching out into choreography? Founding her very own dance school? Perhaps she had better think twice:
The Kalashri School employs no other teachers because, as Ms. Menon says: “I haven’t seen anyone who can teach as well as I can. And I really want my students to be good at what they’re doing.
A display of bravado (apparently all the other teachers toiling away at instructing recalcitrant students better hang ’em up) tempered by weak equivocation–sounds like the ‘heritage’ is being taught by example. Turning aside from the arrogance, I wondered:
What exactly constitutes ‘respect’ for your heritage?
Can a clumsy portrayal of a monkey mean that you’re disrespectful of said heritage (given that your chosen medium of ‘respecting’ is dance)?
Why do we entrust such an apparently important task, this cultural education, to strangers?
Bharatanatyam is suffused with Hindu mythology and the pieces are often set to Hindu songs and bhajans–what is it like for non-Hindu desis to be told that Muruga and Hanuman constitute your ‘heritage’ and that the creatures portrayed in the Ramayana will show your child all that you wish to impart about this ‘heritage’ that any honest teacher could not easily define?
The article continues with a few references to platitudes we’re familiar with, “fosters community,” “it’s so much more than dance,” and “Indian Dance feels more comfortable than…” These are the buzz-words, the talking points that classical dance instructors often use to describe and justify what is usually just another extracurricular activity for application-filling, college-going, high-school students. What does it mean to you?
Camille, here we go now we are back to my all favourite lists –
(A) Cultural, religious, heritage/identity
(a) Hindu heritage (b) Indian/Desi heritage (c) Non-Hindu heritage
What are we discussing about Bharatnatyam wrt to above ?
Nayagan,
Responding to this sentiment:
My response to non-Hindu desis who create this dilemma for themselves – wanting to be desi w/o Hindu influences, is to “get over it.” I never suggested that you want to strip Hinduism from Bharatnatyam. I should have expressed that more clearly.
A N N A,
clearly post #47 (bytewords) suggests some people aren’t over it.
i’m busy with some stuff, so cannot elaborate; but for the person who was asking about muslim influence on south indian culture, an article dealing with a specific research question and drawing broader implications on this theme. http://www.jstor.org/view/00219118/di014696/01p0082h/0 let me know if you can’t access this; will try and email you a PDF version. and this is looks very promising as well. it is taken from here:
. This volume,”Beyond Turk and Hindu: Rethinking Religious Identities in Islamicate South Asia” is much acclaimed:
97 · Camille said
I’ve been to lots of garba functions and I’ve never heard of it as high art. I’ve heard described as a folk dance started by Gujarati peasants. I think its pretty obvious garba and bhangra are low art. They don’t require any of the physical and intellectual demands of bharatnatyam.
Is “strip Hinduism” the kind of dance moves you see in Khajuraho? That’s the kind of classical religious art I could perk up for!
“The issue is not, in my opinion, over whether or not non-Hindus can appreciate or dance bharata natyam. The issue is around whether other religious and cultural traditions are allowed space to exist on an equal platform, whether they are respected, and whether they are given equal weight as also authentic parts of the multicultural and multireligious tapestry that makes up “Indian heritage.” Sadly, the presentation of Indian identity in the U.S. is often tied up with an exclusivist idea of identity (of which, being non-Hindu diminishes your claim to Indian-ness).”
while that may happen, using this story in the new york times to prove that or illustrate that, is off-beat, in my opinion. after reading it, there is nothing divisive in it, beyond one teenager indirectly equating bharatanatyam with the word indian and the word culture. technically that is true. bharatanatyam is indian and is part of indian culture. but if one wanted to over-analyze the words of an excited teenager, who was naive enough to just answer spontaneously without thinking how her words would affect issues of indian identity, metas and memes…..the article also does not say whether there are any non-indians in the class, much less identify any non-hindus, so again this article is not exactly the best one to use to illustrate those points or as a launching pad for those discussions. Perhaps if a non-hindu or non-indian student had been quoted and they had reflected some sort of ambivalence or unease in their quote, fair enough.
as for bharatanatyam being touted as superior culture to “folk arts” and non-classical dances, again, in the story, the teacher says she also teaches bollywood dance, so she’s hardly a cultural snob or stopping other indian dances, be they classical or folk or bollywood from seeking an equal platform. she says nothing derogatory about any other form of indian culture. she says she uses it to deal with a personal loss. there’s nothing in the story that points to the girls thinking that bharatanatyam EQUALS Indian dance and is the be-all and end-all of indian civilization. What they’re saying is that bharatanatyam is AN Indian dance that makes them feel comfortable, moreso than jazz or tap. if that’s a crime, then they are guilty i suppose. but i suspect many of these girls may also be in the teacher’s bollywood dance class and would probably say that that also connects them to their roots, and no one would have a problem with that expression of indian identity – except perhaps those tired of bollywood/north indian culture being equated with all things indian, especially in the diaspora. the article doesn’t even mention the word hindu once.. at worst it says bharatanatyam is indian culture, not hindu culture.
I wrote a post about a Malayalee Muslim girl who was an award-winning Bharatnatyam dancer almost two years ago, on SM; in it, I included my own “experience” with the dance.
That comment thread is relevant to this discussion (and the girl’s photograph is just irresistible).
p.s. I totally took BN lessons as soon as I moved out. That wasn’t the only area of religious disagreement I had with my Mom; I always wore pottus/bindis and my mom thought those were religious, too. Meanwhile, on my dad’s side, my first cousins had arangetrams, so it’s interesting how wildly Malayalee Christians can differ on these issues and their significance.
BN is such a gorgeous form of expression. I think the idea of asking the earth for forgiveness before you stomp all over it is profound. I’d totally take it again, if I had a working ankle and an available teacher IN the district.
just when i decided to commit to atheism, you come along rahul, and steer me back onto the ‘rah-O (“raah” means path in hindi/urdu).
Sorry I didn’t recognize you, nayagan.
Thanks for generating this discussion.
Nayagan,
The issues you describe above are valid concerns to not only Bharatanatyam but is something that dancers of other Indian dance forms wonder about as well. The same issues are raised by some punjabi folk dancers. There are a bunch of universities and private dance troupes that participate in bhangra competitions. A lot of the people participating in them don’t know punjabi, aren’t punjabi, don’t understand the cultural roots of the music, and anglicize the dance by inserting modern beats and music and to some extent some modern, athletic moves. Some dancers feel that this “mass appeal” of bhangra devalues it and takes away from its essence, especially where people don’t understand the music.
I’m not trying to compare Bhangra and Bharatanatyam, other than to say, that the issues you raise happen to many forms of music, dance and expression. As Camille indicated, its part of the “frustrating and monolithic dialogue around what constitutes authenticity, heritage, and history in Indian identity”. I think that’s what happens as part of the immigrant experience, people latch on to whatever is “Indian”, just to keep some semblance of culture and try to adapt it to their lives. Whether this adaptation makes it less Indian or less authentic than was intended could be a natural by-product of that. I don’t think that those parents or that individual shows less respect for an Indian heritage or dance form, if the original intent is benign and was to simply learn about one own’s culture, even if that attempt is ham-handed.
What might be disrespectful to heritage is if that ham-handed approach becomes the mainstream way of interpreting that dance or music, stripped of its original meanings (via Westernizing it). However, I don’t know if one can stop that from happening, especially, if one looks at other dance forms from other countries and see how they have been stripped of their original meanings to become simply a “dance”. Ex: Flamenco, tango, salsa, bachata, heck, even the polka. I had to learn salsa for a wedding party as a groomsmen, I really didn’t care where it came from or why the music developed the way it did. I simply wanted to learn the basics that would allow me to move to the music. Maybe I’m disrespecting a hispanic person’s heritage by not learning more but isn’t it equally possible that I am respecting my hispanic friend’s culture by making even a small effort to learn his culturally preferred choice of dance.
Similarly, the fact that these parents and individuals make a heartfelt effort to learn something about BN is better than them not learning anything at all, even if it means they lose the “Hindu” underpinning. Who knows, it may spur some of them to go out and learn more about it, thus preserving that original meaning.
…a lofty concept and to some, the ideal, but you could just dance.
“Although method acting is thought to be the most realistic of techniques it can sometimes present a minor irritation to other actors. Dustin Hoffman once went without bathing and sleeping for two days in order to immerse himself in a role. On seeing Hoffman’s condition, Laurence Olivier his co-star in the film, famously asked him, “Why don’t you just act?”
Best comment is from the thread that Anna linked to.
Bytewords:
portmanteau, just be aware that my path involves much rapturous chanting of “O(m)-MY-GOD!”.
An interesting commentary on the meaning of the dance by Louis Malle. Must Watch Its not everyone’s Bharatanatyam. Much like Hinduism, a lot of people practice Bharatanatyam without knowing the meaning behind the acts. Those who do, get incredible satisfaction from it.
Nayagan, it may seem like just a extra-curricular activity to you. But the creativity, grace and emotion it requires to perform at the highest level makes you a better person. I recommend you to take some lessons. Those girls dancing with Mrs. Menon are living the best years of their lives. I was once one of them in a different setting.
Here’s a “modern” interpretation of Ganesh. I really like it.
How many times Devdas been made apart from SRK-Rai version?
From upperstall:
First, the significance of novella, and subsequent movies
First, in 1935, PC Barua made it a movie.
Then,
Jangli Jaanwar, you said the above in regards to bhangra…but it has to be said that although the dancers in the troupes may not always be Punjabi, and the dance moves may not always be authentic, but the creators/producers/DJs who make the music are almost all Punjabi (and almost all Sikh). So if anyone is anglicizing the music, it’s young 2nd/3rd gen Sikhs in the UK (for the most part). Which is normal since their music is a fusion of all the various musical influences in their urban lives. That being said, UK bhangra is often more traditional and conservative than a lot of stuff that comes out of India (where the music and lyrics often seem like an afterthought).
I started learning dance (in Madras) when I was 6 and at that time, I did not understand anything -except that I loved the costumes and wanted to learn enough to be able to dance on stage, in those colorful costumes! 🙂 It took me several years of regular class (every Wednesday and Saturday) to begin to really understand and feel the dance. I now pursue my dance studies here in the mid-west, purely because I enjoy it thoroughly. I have never understood why desi parents take their children (mostly daughters) to classical dance, with the main hope of “imbibing culture”, whatever that means. Culture is the sum total of a lot of things and simply ferrying your daughter up and down to dance class (once a week) may not help. I currently learn dance (Mohiniattam) and I notice, with interest, the attitude of the other, younger students (ages from 6 to about 15) who attend class. The same parents who want their daughters to “respect” their heritage, do not even insist that they wear appropriate clothing for the class! (I’d say that a loose salwar kameez, with a dupatta across on the shoulder and tied around the waist would be appropriate). Why come to dance class in tights and a t-shirt? I can’t understand why the teacher does not insist on a dress code, either! Afterall, the same children would not go to, say their balle class dressed in a salwar, right? I think that in many cases, the parents themselves are not big admirers of classical dance (or music) but the minute they moved from India and the moment they had a child, they felt the strong need to make attempts to “preserve culture”.
Back in Madras, I wonder what helped me develop an interest. My parents were/are keen music listeners (carnatic music), but not as much dance enthusiasts. I think that a combination of watching a lot of other dance programs and having inputs from school (stories- familiarity with the Ramayana and Mahabharata, participation in annual day programs, etc) gradually helped me realize what a wonderful dance form Bharatanatyam is.
It would be ludicrous to expect a child in the US to develop such an interest in this art form, because the inputs are so limited (unless you are the daughter of a dance teacher, in which case you get routinely exposed to lots of dance and even if you don’t want to, you pick up the dance!).
As a first step, I think parents would do well to speak only in their own language, to their children and try their best to make the children fluent in that language. I know “Mom” and “Amma” are the same, but…somehow, I just don’t like the thought of my son (now just a toddler) calling me “Mom!”. A lot can be understood about one’s culture if one can speak and understand the language first.
Amitabh,
Thanks for the clarification both on the music and the transliteration. (I always thought it was one ‘a’ in janwar.) The anglicizing of music in Bhangra does come from a desi angle, for the reasons you stated, and I suspect, in an effort to cater to a market that has been exposed to western influences.
JJ
Thank you.
80 & #95 – wow! thanks for those links.
ANNA, aren’t you in D.C.?? There have got be like 238794792374 dance teachers in the area.
I’ve never heard of anyone describe garba/raas as a ‘high art,’ nor do I think are many people aware of the devotional aspect of it. And I’ve never seen bhangra or garba be dismissed as ‘not Indian.’ If anything, they’re seen as ‘low art’ because they originated as folk dances and (theoretically) anyone can dance them (and not well), whereas ‘classical’ dances require training and are meant to be performed on stage, not danced at a party. I think you’re really stretching here to make your point. I know I made that dig at bhangra before, but let me explain where my frustration comes from. I’m a dancer, and the attitudes like the one found in the article, where it’s ok to mess shit up and not take it seriously because at least you’re ‘connecting with your roots,’ really annoy me. All the uncles and aunties who come to performances and don’t pay attention and spend the entire time gossiping or trying to get their babies to stop crying, but still say, ‘Wow great job!’ afterwards annoy me even more. And then to top it off there isn’t much of an audience or ‘market’ for classical dance, even your peers (other ABDs) think it’s staid and boring (which it is, compared to ‘low art’ like bhangra and garba/raas, which I also enjoy, but to have another dance form entirely dismissed simply because apparently it’s boring is frustrating, and I think it goes along with how northies are seen as more fun and southies are seen as more boring in general), and even the girls who learn dance don’t stick around to watch the whole show, it’s just about doing their own thing and then hanging out with friends. There’s nothing wrong with that, if people would just see it for what it is and not praise just anyone because at least she is ‘connecting with her roots.’
I don’t think the comparison of qawwali to kuchipudi is analogous. You could compare kathak to kuchipudi since the former was heavily influenced by the Mughals and semi-consciously separated itself from bharata natyam and somewhat distanced itself from Hinduism as a result. I don’t think that makes it less Indian, but I do think it makes it more accessible to non-Hindus (I know Muslims who learn kathak who would never be allowed to learn bharata natyam by their parents), and I think people should recognize that aspect of its history (and yes, I think people should recognize the devadasi aspect of bharata natyam’s history too). And I don’t think that Indian non-Hindus are less Indian, but I do think that Hinduism/Hindu culture and India are intricately tied together, i.e. even ‘India’ comes from ‘Hind’ which means the land of the Hindus. So in that sense I think Hinduism is more intrinsically Indian because it ‘originated’ in India, but I don’t think that means anything w.r.t. the followers of any religion and their ‘Indian-ness.’
Ok, I have Indian friends from all walks of life who are part of every religion, and maybe it’s a generational/locational thing, but I’ve never, ever, ever heard of anyone made to feel like they were less Indian because they were not Hindu. This is not to deny people’s experiences of this happening, but sometimes I get the feeling that that sort of stuff gets talked about on here more than it actually happens in reality. One of the girls in the article was named Teena Ammakuzhiyil – that sounds like a Malayalee Christian name to me. I was surprised at first by the Christian girls in my classes who would essentially worship in front of Shiva and then go to church, because my understanding was that it ‘interfered’ with their religion, but they didn’t have a problem with it, so I didn’t care either.
sigh Yes, because what we need is more hasty, lifeless performances.
When it comes to bharata natyam and Hinduism, I don’t want to see the dance stripped of any religious aspect just for the sake of people (both Hindu and non-Hindu) being able to ‘get in touch with their roots,’ but that’s because I think it of it as an art form that requires you to see the significance of what you’re enacting, even if you don’t believe in it, and I want to stop seeing shitty performances.
I think it’s really just a social thing- they see their friends’ daughters going, and so they send their daughter too, and once the kids reach puberty the ones who decide they aren’t interested in it anymore will stop going, but those friendships will last a lifetime.
Even harsher to my ears is ‘Grandma’ and ‘Grandpa.’
All the ABD male classical dancers I’ve met (I can count them on one hand), though, have been amazing. They have to be, to pursue an interest in dance when it’s seen as a ‘wussy’ thing to do. It’s interesting in the case of kuchipudi because that used to be performed almost exclusively by men.
Northern classical arts are as boring (or not) as southern ones. By the way kathak also originated as a Hindu temple dance, but did undergo evolution in the Mughal court. The roots of most northern Indian raags are Hindu as well, although again there was a Muslim influence there too in the way northern (hindustani) classical music developed. Northern Indian culture is really a composite culture on every level.
Do you know anyone who actually says this??
I do.
Damn, I know a buddy whose entire dance repertoire is the sprinkler move. I wonder if it comes from his midwestern culture, and whether I would be insulting him to appropriate it myself…
Yeah but southies haven’t made their folk dances (like kolattam, I guess) as popular, so when people think of south Indian dance they just think of the classical dances. I’d say kathak is less staid and boring on that level though (maybe it’s just to my eyes though, and people unacquainted with any classical dance would still think of it as really boring?), and training in kathak is a lot more useful as a step toward Bollywood-style dancing than training in bharata natyam is. And stop making me jealous of northies and their culture, man…
Yeah, one of my cousins, actually. I don’t mind if she calls her grandparents (the ones I’m not related to) Grandma and Grandpa since they’re very educated and upper-class, but it’s kind of weird if she does that with the ones we have in common considering that they don’t even speak English.
I think Bollywood-style dance is fast losing whatever connection it had to more traditional forms of Indian dance. It’s mostly just aping the West now. Although some of the aping is done really well these days.
So portraying apes is paramount to preserving Bollywood culture? 🙂
120 · nala said
Yes, but I don’t own a car and I live in the middle of DC. That’s why I specifically said, IN the district vs in the area. 🙂 A teacher in midtown is different from a teacher in Lawn Guyland, yes?
Racists, the both of you!
Ah ok. And yes midtown and Lawn Guyland are different, but they’ve both got nothing on teachers in Queens. 🙂
Seriously, though– my teacher is very, very traditional, and she hates ‘fusion’ because she thinks that if you’re gonna ‘be modern,’ you may as well just do filmi-style dancing outright. So I was really surprised and actually kind of aghast when I went to the bharata natyam performance of one of my friends from high school, who had learned at some dance studio in midtown, and saw that their costumes consisted of langa-oni and not even a real bharata natyam costume, their hair was just in a messy braid and not all pinned up. And their performance was weak, too- there wasn’t much attention paid to form. Man I sound way too critical, but it’s honestly just really frustrating to see something you love messed up so badly. I don’t have anything against avant garde performances and putting a more ‘modern’ twist on bharata natyam with different costumes, etc., but I think to pull it off you’d have to be consciously pulling it in that direction instead of aiming to do something else (like pass it off as ‘authentic’) and falling very short of that goal.
Nala, I agree with you 100%. The other point is this…the old school artists used to devote their whole lives to these arts. All the classical dancers and musicians, singers etc. practiced and trained from a very young age. It was like a full-time occupation. In order to really excel, not only do you need an excellent teacher, but you need to start young, and devote your life to it.
The fact that now people take it up as just as a hobby, or even if they feel very passionate about it they need to fit it in between a full day at school, homework, and other activities…means that you’re not going to get that caliber of artist as you would in the past. In fact the kinds of childhoods most of the greats had would probably be breaking the law today.
Anyone else have a stupid question they’d like to see deleted? Back on topic, thanks.
114 · rasudha said
You should get in the habit of reading the entire post, especially this portion:
Perhaps I wasn’t clear enough here but I am attributing this attitude mainly to kids, who like Amitabh and others have commented earlier, are rushed into classes and not able to appreciate it fully. BN is so much more than physical movements–it’s a highly personal and dynamic worship.
as to classes, I’ve taken my fill and danced enough hours (I do not wish to count, but if you’re impressed by years of study try the number, ’14’) for muscle memory to serve me well in case I am drafted for a surprise performance.
Amitabh,
most of the ‘greats,’ as you put it, that I know did have very remarkable childhoods. I often wish that Bollywood/Kollywood/Tollywood etc would make a movie about the heady mid-century heyday of Kalakshetra and the incredible amount of amazing artists who came out and established schools/dynasties of their own.
As to a north/south divide, many of the very old items were composed initially in Telugu–which as one of my teachers explained (he had a way with words) was supposed to be the most melodic and flowing of all southie languages. Eventually, as the BN world centered around Chennai, most of the pieces became composed in Tamil. Nowadays, due to the tremendous interest from northie DBD parents, you will see a few non-Tamil pieces at performances and arangetrams.
In the interest of accessibility, I’m hoping that this trend accelerates.
Brij, et al., I’m not arguing that this particular article lays claim to the idea that BN is the only cultural expression seen as valid or authentic within the desi diaspora. I’m using it as an avenue to discuss other trends and comments around the (false) idea of a singular, homogenous desi diasporic identity.
Nayagan, I totally agree that classical dances are more difficult (like the difference between hip hop and ballet — both difficult and legitimate dance forms, but one requires a great deal more training than the other). Most of the commentary I’ve heard, and this comes largely from non-dancers, is that the difficulty also connotes superiority (vis-a-vis cultural superiority) and greater authenticity. I also think they are full of shit, but that’s a different story 🙂
nala, my commentary is anecdotal, so it’s entirely possible that this was more common among my college classmates than it is in the “real people” population. I think people recognize garba is a folk dance, but I have also heard those same groups of people argue vehemently that it is “more authentic” than other (non-devotional) folk dances precisely because it is Hindu, and by extension, more Indian.
I think there’s a difference between understanding that Hinduism has had a huge influence on many regions of India (and regional identities) vs. assuming that because something is Hindu it is inherently Indian and vice-versa. I take strident exception to the idea that Hinduism is “more intrinsically Indian” on all counts, particularly because India, in its present united state, is very much a contemporary, secular creation. With respect to the “India” comes from “Hind” argument — I really don’t want to go down that path, but there is power in naming, even if those names misrepresent the whole. Your line of reasoning is the same underlying reasoning that the RSS uses to explain why Islam and Christianity are “non-Indian” (indeed, invasive or viral) religions while homogenizing Buddhism, Sikhi, and Jainism as manifestations of Hinduism. I’m not arguing that that’s your position, just clarifying that the same argument is used to justify hyper-nationalist positions.
I forgot to mention that, as someone who has danced outside of her area of expertise and in other regional folk forms, I love how learning about a “different” group’s history and art humanizes communities and builds understanding. Just as art can be used as a divisive piece, it can also be unifying. I think understanding where a dance comes from and its motivation is essential and important. Thus, I think it’s fully possible for a non-Hindu to enjoy and convey the emotions evoked in BN, just as I think it’s possible for a non-Punjabi to enjoy bhangra or a non-Roman to appreciate sculpture.
I agree, but Hinduism is tied to India in the way that Islam is tied to Arabia I guess (hence you see Muslims in other parts of the world trying to emulate Arab Muslims because they are seen as being more ‘authentically’ Muslim, especially when compared to the Hindu-ized lepers of South Asia). Even SM covers stories of white Hindus and Sikhs… I’m not saying that Hinduism is intrinsically Indian in the sense where ‘India’ means the modern-day secular state of India, but it does have roots in the subcontinent which later became India/Pakistan/Bangladesh. Then again, it’s difficult to really determine how much of it is religious vs. cultural because of the colonial definition of Hinduism.
125 · nala said
kathak is gorgeous. check out shashwati sen here in ray’s ‘shatranj ke khiladi.’ and lemuria ain’t all bad either, nala 🙂
FWIW, I actually got really upset at a friend who described India as the ‘Hindu version of Pakistan.’ 😛 So I’m far from wanting or seeing India as a Hindu country instead of secular one. But I feel like it would be misleading to deny that Hinduism originated in what is now known as India/South Asia, and therefore has a huge influence on the area as a result of that and is more intrinsically subcontinental (if not Indian) because of that. To me it feels like trying to strip bharata natyam of any spiritual meaning.
I think we actually agree on these points 🙂 nala, one day we should meet up and get coffee and then have a kathak-off! (j/k on the very last part)
139 · nala said
If anything Pakistan is a Muslim version of India!
But why every activity should be turned into breaking the world record kind of competitive activity. BN like any other activity can be for fun too. And for the serious minded they can take it to higher levels. The rest can enjoy and just have fun. Why should everybody become the resident expert ?
Maybe it is all a debate of semantics but it is useful to keep in mind there was no “India” before Brtish; there was a loose conglomeration of kingdoms in the sub-continent even before the Mughals and the only thing common was some aspect of Hinduism. So there was nothing like “Indian” culture . Everything was about or related in some way to Hinduism. So in the sense Bharatanatyam is essentially a Hindu activity. Now post Mughal era, post-british era everybody is trying to give syncretic, universal and secular meaning to “cultural activites” amongst the Indians/Desis to define a Indian/Desi identity. And all this debate abt BN is because of this ?
I agree, it’s beautiful! That’s a great clip… and yeah I guess lemuria ain’t all bad. We’ve got idlis and stuff… and this is one of my favorite BN-in-film clips.
Yes, we can have madras kappi, but how about dance fighting instead? (kudos to Rahul, I think, for originally posting the link)
There is no need to become an ‘expert’ to experience the devotional aspect of BN. If it happens, it happens…if not, then it doesn’t. Kids who see it as an extracurricular are wasting their time–i’ll make no bones about that–but that doesn’t mean they won’t eventually be able to understand all aspects. I danced like a robot for many years before I realized that the audience was much more responsive, and that I felt better about my performance, when I used my imagination (terrible thing, no? Having fun while doing BN involves laughing at your mistakes as you improve) to make tangible the scenario I was portraying through movement.
Mental maturity is needed to place your childhood activities in perspective and BN is no different. No art can ever be judged appropriately, especially dance. I really don’t know where you’re getting this elitist message from but I can’t find it in any of my comments or the post itself. Care to elaborate?
Is that what the kids are calling it these days? If so, I say, Shabhash, Seriyana potti!
If madras kappi = filter coffee, then unfortunately I cannot partake 🙁 Perhaps instead of a dance-off, we can walk off!
Rahul, raspberries to you! 😛
148 · Camille said
!?
125 · nala said
Yeah? Really? Aasha Parekh, Hema Malini, Minakshi Seshadri, Aishwarya Rai forgot that I guess. Indian film dances are substantially based on the Indian ‘classical’ and ‘folk’ dances – and in the movies the lines between these supposedly different traditions is all but non-existent. Terukootu a catch-all term for a wide varirty of traditions involves almost the same sort of physical training as does BN. Dr. Padma Subrahmmanyam who probably knows more than anyone alive about the entire corpus of Tamizh dance has conducted entire recitals around these interconnections. BN, Kathak, Kuchipudi are the three most common bases for Indian film dance, and most dance masters are tasrained in one of these, in addition to the basics of ballroom dancing. This is not to say that it is all one undifferentiated mass. Just that these are traditions that are lived out in numerous little ways everyday in a 1000 different homes.