Greetings Mutineers! I am Nayagan and I am guest-blogging here to fight the good fight for pittu, sodhi and the thosai which embraces us all in it’s fermented glory.
Listen up desi parents: Bina Menon, a classical dance teacher from West Orange NY, has the magical cure to all your ‘heritage preserving’ needs. Indeed, according to the New York Times, a turn in one of her stage productions (portraying an animal of the forest) will do wonders for lifting the Vestern pop-culture cloud which descended over your child’s eyes as soon as he/she exited the womb.
Yes, I know, the reporter attributed the sentiment to Menon’s students, but what exactly could these young ‘uns have known about a heritage which was supposedly out of their grasp? Could this deep knowledge be imparted by scratching one’s arm-pit repeatedly? Or perhaps by miming the grooming ritual so fancied by wild-life photographers? Whatever the standard, this reporter unwittingly added fuel to the “All Things Come From India” fire by attributing an honorific desis know all too well
dancing with Bina-Auntie
to the Hindi crowd:
employing a Hindi term of endearment all her fellow dancers used for Ms. Menon
Okay, to be charitable to the reporter, and without sounding the Lemurian call to arms, perhaps this was really all about the dance. The one student who went on record, seems to confirm this:
“My parents brought me into dance when I was 5, and at first I wasn’t that into it,†said Teena Ammakuzhiyil, a lithe 20-year-old from Union who will play the wise monkey in “Ramayanam,†a production that 25 senior-level dancers from Ms. Menon’s Kalashri School will present on Jan. 27 at the Mayo Center for the Performing Arts in Morristown. “But it brought me back to my roots, dancing with Bina-Auntie,â€
But the ‘roots’ return and the question bears asking, now that she has ‘found’ her roots, what’s left? Branching out into choreography? Founding her very own dance school? Perhaps she had better think twice:
The Kalashri School employs no other teachers because, as Ms. Menon says: “I haven’t seen anyone who can teach as well as I can. And I really want my students to be good at what they’re doing.
A display of bravado (apparently all the other teachers toiling away at instructing recalcitrant students better hang ’em up) tempered by weak equivocation–sounds like the ‘heritage’ is being taught by example. Turning aside from the arrogance, I wondered:
What exactly constitutes ‘respect’ for your heritage?
Can a clumsy portrayal of a monkey mean that you’re disrespectful of said heritage (given that your chosen medium of ‘respecting’ is dance)?
Why do we entrust such an apparently important task, this cultural education, to strangers?
Bharatanatyam is suffused with Hindu mythology and the pieces are often set to Hindu songs and bhajans–what is it like for non-Hindu desis to be told that Muruga and Hanuman constitute your ‘heritage’ and that the creatures portrayed in the Ramayana will show your child all that you wish to impart about this ‘heritage’ that any honest teacher could not easily define?
The article continues with a few references to platitudes we’re familiar with, “fosters community,” “it’s so much more than dance,” and “Indian Dance feels more comfortable than…” These are the buzz-words, the talking points that classical dance instructors often use to describe and justify what is usually just another extracurricular activity for application-filling, college-going, high-school students. What does it mean to you?
Why is so abhorent for non-hindu Indians to be told that Hanuman or Hinduism is a part of their hertitage? When the largest Muslim country propogates its hindu ties to hinduism in just about every sphere, why do you feel compelled to whitewash traces of hinduism, from what is essentially, a hindu art form?
totally with you, bytes.
I don’t think that’s a difficult situation for Hindus. It could certainly be a problem for non-Hindus. But I think in the diaspora you can see how different groups have handled it. Most ABD Sikhs are not too familiar with Hindu mythology or epics (unlike Sikhs in India, who just grow up with that surrounding them as part of the general culture). ABD Sikhs are raised with a more or less ‘straight-up’ Sikhi, bereft of a lot of Hindu cultural baggage that you might find in India. Most ABD Muslims are completely unfamiliar with any Hindu motifs and seek their identity more in a broader Islamic culture. When they think of their ‘desi’ roots, they have desi Muslim cultural trappings in mind (which do, however, often have Hindu elements, for example wedding customs).
no offense meant—it is only to include ppl like me who will self-identify as hindu even though we may not fit anybody’s notions of what hindu is.
No offense taken–I just wanted to point out that this discussion was leaning a bit far in one direction.
Although, there is Hindu imagery and reference to Hindu myths in the Guru Granth Sahib…but most of the time it is reinterpreted to illustrate the principles of Sikhism. The Sikh Gurus used the existing cultural matrix (which included Islam as well) to make their point.
I think there is some syncretism in N. Indian music due to Kabir and the interplay of bhakti/sufism, but it is hard for me to imagine bharatnatyam outside of a Hindu temple environment. Are the epics, even when interpreted as literature devoid of religious Truth, part of desi christian/muslim life ?I don’t think so. I think because Hinduism was pretty much eradicated in places like Indonesia outside of Bali, it is no longer a threat and good Muslim artists can work with elements of the Ramayana without fear of “reverting”. Ditto for Scandinavians who keep their Norse sagas alive without fear of returning to Odinism. Not so for minorities in India, they probably feel that any participation in these art forms may lead to reversion/committing idolatry. But it is also important to note that while the themes referred to by bharatnatyam are part of a wider Hindu culture, the dance itself is not. It was specific to hereditary musicians/devadasis patronized by Tamil feudal communities and not something for “respectable women” until fairly recently (i.e. last 60 yrs). This isn’t some widely practiced social dance like garba/dandia raas
Right, but by ‘our’ I meant South Asians as a whole, because that’s what I think Nayagan is getting at. I don’t see anything wrong with bharata natyam being so infused with Hinduism, because I think ultimately it’s about the dance, and you don’t have to be a Hindu or brown to perform well and transmit that, though I do think you would need to ‘let yourself go’ a little (or a lot) and let yourself ‘feel it’ (wow, I’m sorry about all these corny phrases, I really am, but I can’t think of how else to say it right now). If someone wanted to try to tell the story of Christ’s resurrection through bharata natyam, that would be truly avant garde, and I’d actually be really interested in it. And I think while it’s easier for Hindus to ‘connect with their roots’ in this way, the flip side is that in America it’s harder to gauge what it actually ‘means’ spiritually to be Hindu in a way that it isn’t for Sikhs/Muslims/Christians [in my opinion, in my experience, etc.].
I agree with what you suggested above, Amitabh- that these dance classes, while they have Hindu roots, aren’t really seen as a religious thing so much as another extracurricular activity by the girls who are forced to go by their parents from a young age. It’s much more about bonding with your peers and dressing up (which becomes a pain after a while) and performing at cultural events. shrug I’m more of a kuchipudi fan…
Maybe I am really out of the loop, but could you say more about this? Christians, yes, for obvious reasons of it being the majority religion here–but–maybe I am a foolishly happily ensconced ABD Hindu, but why is it easier for Sikhs (fewer of them than Hindus in the US) or Muslims (have to deal with the whole GWoT thing) than for Hindus?
There is a larger Muslim community in the U.S., for desi Muslims to be a part of. And I feel like the nature of Sikhism and Islam make it easier for those religions to ‘adapt’ to the U.S. framework. Just anecdotally I’ve seen more people with ‘strong’ Sikh and Muslim identities than I have people with ‘strong’ Hindu identities. Of course we can get into what it means to have a ‘strong’ identity, especially within different religions that aren’t really ‘religions’ at all, but I think we did that on a thread last week or the week before.
Oh and while there may be more Hindus than Sikhs in the U.S., Sikhs make up a disproportionately larger percentage of the population, and they’re more homogenous (i.e. mostly Punjabi) than Hindus.
Rajni makes it look so easy, but he ain’t got nothin’ on my man Kamal.
LOL!
Here’s some fire extinguisher. “Yes, I’ve heard – the bomb is in the Vedas [ancient Hindu scriptures]. It might be, but if you look hard enough you’ll find Coke in the Vedas too.”
More fuel to the fire- here.
I think confusion arises because Hinduism was not really one big organized religion. A lot of the practices serve dual purposes as cultural and religious practices. This explains why agnostics and atheists from Hindu families will happily take part in dances, rituals and reading all the stories. The same applies to some of the Indian Christians. I know some who have no problem indulging in Hindu related stuff because it is also a cultural thing. This analogy may not be perfect, but I see this as similar to many of us celebrating Christmas even though many of us do not believe in Christianity.
I loved reading all those Amar Chitra comics as a kid. What would be cool if someone did an anime version of Mahabharata for the older teens. Imagine the freedom in which they could depict those stories in such a format.
What do you think constitutes ‘respect’ for your heritage?.
I don’t think so. First of all, No ‘believing’ Hindu thinks of Hanuman as just a ‘monkey’, but as an example of someone who is extremely wise and devoted to his superior.
Yeah, why not.
First we need to understand the history behind the art. Bharathanatyam was confined to Hindu temples and was maintained/propagated by the group of “Devadasis/nattuvanars/etc..etc..” who are supported by the grants from the temples. With the revolutionary churnings in the freedom movement and the associated reform movements in Hinduism, “Devadasi system” was banned and in order to preserve the art form it was taken out of temples and given some respectability. (Note: The “aura” and “respect” given to Bharathanatyam is much recent, infact the Tamil word for prostitute is derived from the Devadasis.. But, that’s a different story. 🙂 )
It is quite obvious that Bharatanatyam is a “Hindu art form” and hence would have a lot of “hindu imagery”. I think the confusion lies elsewhere, in mixing up Indian and Hindu culture and further adding “progressive South asian” ideas to it. 🙂
I am not sure what you mean by that. Whether respectable or not, devsdasi’s in the South were temple dancers (literally ‘servants of god’). And temples naturally were a certainly focal point of the wider hindu culture.
Did you mean to say that learning bharatnatyam was not widely practiced among hindus. (But then again, it still isn’t — from what I have seen it is mainly practised by a handful of communities, just different ones)
Bharatnatyam is definitely a Hindu art form.
The poses and movements are all symbolic of religious ideas and Hindu mythological events.
The dance itself is a reenactment of Nataraja (literally, “Dancing Lord”)whwo is Shiva when he is creating and destroying the world through dancing.
Indian culture and Hinduism are intertwined and anyone who immerses himself into Indian culture is inevitably going to get a dose of Hinduism. Non-Hindu Indians need to realize this and get over it. Many non-Hindu Indians decide they are going to embrace their Indian roots while avoiding Hinduism. This leads them to start “de-Hinduizing” inherently Hindu things like Diwali and now Bharatnatyam.
Hindus don’t own Bharatnatyam and anyone who wants to practice is free to do so. But it is intellectually dishonest and insulting to Hindus to drain all Hindu significance from Bharatnatyam.
This is a really weird post with some definite hints of self-loathing and also just plain cussedness. Yes, of course, this kind of training is going to be quite limiting and limited to just a few simplified aspects of indian culture.
So what? I mean what are you comparing this to? A graduate program on south asia at some fancy US college? Maybe our friend Nayagan needs to get out of the SM bunker sometimes and get to see the real world a little.
I’m waiting for muralimannered’s comments on this thread.
Where are you?
68 · Al beruni said
Maybe our nayagar has to get his answers from indian president kalam who plays the veena which is played by goddess saraswati.
14 · Aniruddhan Vasudevan said
Tussle between reformation and rejection. Nothing wrong in upliftment/morphing of an art form to higher levels however degenerated it had been in the past.
I think we’re forgetting one important thing…in India, ‘entertaining’ people has always been looked down upon. Respectable families never wanted their children to perform for the entertainment or amusement of others. It was something you paid more ‘lowly’ people to do. There are entire (generally ‘lower’) castes devoted to singing or doing magic or acrobatics, or playing an instrument or being purveyors of folk culture, etc. While typically the upper castes’ or the land-owning castes’ involvement was more passive (i.e. they formed the audience and they were the patrons). A lot of things which in actuality are very highly developed, very skilled artforms, were enjoyed yet at the same time looked down upon.
Are the epics, even when interpreted as literature devoid of religious Truth, part of desi christian/muslim life ?I don’t think so.
The epics may not play a big part in the lives of India’s minority communities today, but that wasn’t necessarily the case in the past. For example, the Meos, who are a Muslim community, have their own version of the Mahabharata, and Tamil Muslims were once among the preeminent interpreters of the Kamban Ramayana.
I don’t see a problem as a lot of non Hindu desis have had ancestors for which this was their heritage. Just like most people who live here follow a Judeo Christian cultural tradition regardless of what religion they belong to, I do not see a problem with that. I know a lot about Christianity, even if there is a lot more for me to know and I dont believe in Christianity one bit. You do not have to believe in Hinduism to relate to some entities which can be construed cultural by some instead of religious.
67 · JGandhi said
Maybe off-track but nayagar can you tell me why US bomb testing laser was called as Shiva ? Just as in that case, but more so in art, culture and religion there is always a churning force called appropriation. Probably art studs amongst SM readers would come up with better explanation or equivalent technical term for appropriation ?
By the way, as a little kid, I found all the Indian type stuff at these gatherings boring as hell. It’s only when I went to India and my older relatives would tell me stories about all these Hindu gods, and the history of the family and how it related to the freedom movement, I would get very much into learning more about India. The thing I feared the most at the Indian parties, especially in the NJ-NY area were those poojas and some dance by the kids of the host family. BOOOOOORING. It just seemed forced and lacking joy. I always wondered why more of these parents didnt take their kids to India more often like a good field trip and show them around the country unsheltered.
69 · lifelong said
teehee
57 · louiecypher said
My best friend in Trivandrum was Christian, and said growing up her family constantly implored her to “be like Sita.” And the Ramayana is certainly part of Muslim culture in Indonesia and Malaysia, and Buddhist culture in Thailand.
31 · Rajni the Monkey said
This is probably the reason why we have all these cultural activities. Our uncles and aunties don’t want to give up whatever is remaining of their “diverse” identity in the melting pot of homogenization. It is like every town in US you go to and shopping complex looks the same everywhere.
http://www.drbarboza.com/
Nala: “If someone wanted to try to tell the story of Christ’s resurrection through bharata natyam, that would be truly avant garde, and I’d actually be really interested in it”
Heck..You can even tell Harry Potter story with Bharatnatyam. 🙂 It’s been done!
67 · JGandhi said
Indian culture and Islam are also intertwined. Even today’s Hinduism is bound up with Islam. Ideas about the presentation of women are very much influenced by Muslim ideas about “covering up” and downplaying feminine curves to display modesty. Pre-Mughal Indian art is radically different from post-. As Hindutvas get hysterical over a voluptuous depiction of Sita as “un-Hindu” and disrespectful, they are in fact defending historically Muslim cultural ideas.
81 · Nina P said
Maybe more in North India. I would like to know more about how Muslim culture has influenced in South India.
Aare va! Broad sweeping cynicism sopping with irreverent oversimplification are the makings of an excellent critique! You’re too cool for dance school! So I suppose when people refer to the “hip hop movement” they mean like Jigga what Jigga who? Or maybe Bob Marley should have saved Redemption Song for his 13 children cause cultural edumacation is best kept within the fam (illegitimate or otherwise) – after all anyone with dreds should realize that if their locks are frizzy rather than carefully matted then they clumsily undertook their homage to the heritage… I’ve seen some whiteys do this, although whoah wait, don’t the Hindus own that one originally? Nayagan, if your article was a comedic first entry satirizing a completely ignorant and holier-than-hindu authority on what makes for cultural preservation, you were right on the money honey.
“For most items outside of mostly natya Thillanas and mostly natya Jathiswarams, most items (padams, varnams, kirtanams etc.) are all about Hindu mythology–stories that largely do not address the histories of other religious communities which have ebbed and risen over time (there may certainly be songs/bhajans about this diversity/practice of tolerance but aside from Vaishnava Janatho, I know of none that have been choreographed into items). You should also know that Bharatanatyam, in particular, draws a very diverse student population–it’s not all about desis anymore.”
most students at convent schools in India are hindu or non-christian. what is it like for them to have sing hymns that definitely do not address their gods or their religious histories despite going to a school that draws from a diverse student population? should the school change the annual nativity play to include krishna, mohammed and buddha? most gospel clubs at colleges in the u.s. are open to anyone – anyone who wants to sing praises to jesus that is. they don’t change their songs to accomodate people of other faiths, as far as i know. so how do non-christian minority students in the u.s. feel when they constantly hear of the judeo-christian heritage of the u.s.?
i suppose the non-hindu students of bharatanatyam feel the same as the non-christian students at convent schools in india – their parents chose to send them there for a particular reason, their eyes and minds are opened to other people’s sacred/profane culture/beliefs and they are open-minded and secure enough to expose their children to that without feeling they have to give up their own beliefs. For those whom yoga and bharatanatyam are the devil incarnate, i assume they do not send their children to these classes. like it or not, hindu/indic arts (where the separation of the sacred/profane is hard to demarcate and are as entwined with india and is the common heritage of that area as much as westerners laud greco-roman civilization as the bedrock of theirs, even if they live in the united states and it originated a mere century ago) is the dominating bedrock of indian civlization, whether it originated centuries ago or more recently. the numbers make it so. i have no doubt that one day we will see ‘Praise Bhaaratanatyam”, akin to praise moves, the usurpation of yoga by christian fundamentalists who want the moves but disingenuously separate them from their origins and change their meaning. i’ve even been to yoga ashrams where the words india/sanskrit are never mentioned because the teachers seem embarrassed by it. they’re still shamelessly profiting from yoga though.
81 · Nina P said
I agree. Islam changed Indian culture, thereby changing Hinduism. Every time I speak Gujarati I use Arabic and Persian words. But I do not support eliminating “Islamic influences”, I am complaining against people draining Hinduism from essentially Hindu practices.
Muslims and Christians can do Bharatnatyam and deserve as much respect as Hindus who do it. But don’t pretend your doing a secular “Indian” dance when you are doing what is essentially a Hindu ritual.
i also agree with nina about the intertwining of indian culture and islam in some parts of india. this is true of christianity in some parts of india. this is all shared heritage to a certain degree, but also not shared culture to a certain degree. i met a woman from goa, a catholic, who had zero knowledge of hinduism despite living in india all her life and she had no desire to really know anything. her cultural touchstone and civilizational heritage lay in the west, she proudly said. there are probably many hindus who don’t know anything about christianity/islam and don’t care to. likewise, as the numbers of hindus/buddhists/sikhs grow in the united states, there are lots of christians/jews/muslims who could care less. which is why when there are opportunities for young children to learn parts of their own/other’s heritage without being forced to, no matter how cheesy it looks, what’s the problem? as long as the bharatanatyam teachers aren’t insulting their non-hindu students and making them feel that their beliefs are any less worthy.
Has the statute of limitations on cultural adaptations now expired? Why didn’t I get the memo, goddammit? I really should stop listening to those Indian bands. V are NOT rockstars!
87 · Rahul said
Rahul how about this – I wanna be a rockstar
“Has the statute of limitations on cultural adaptations now expired? Why didn’t I get the memo, goddammit? I really should stop listening to those Indian bands. V are NOT rockstars!”
why? did they not dedicate indian rock and all rock, past and present, solely to lord shiva? 🙂
87 · Rahul said
There is a difference between cultural adaptation and historical revision. If Christians want to do Bharatnatyam in churches or concert halls, fine. If Sufi music artists want to make Bharatnatyam music videos, thats also fine. But don’t deny the obvious Hindu origins and Hindu symbology of what you are doing. Don’t pretend that Bharatnatyam is “Indian, not Hindu”.
If only this article had appeared a week earlier, Harbhajan could’ve used it in his defense, and the spirit of cricket would be just fine and dandy right now. I mean, if Ponting just needs a bit of tightening up, all the Indian team needs is some good cultural brochures they can distribute, right?
But we’re allowed to “pretend” that all the Mughal customs we’ve now appropriated (Nina points out an excellent example upthread, something that I think many Indians are not aware of, or choose to ignore) are Hindu, not Indian? Or that the rampant rewriting of the Mahabharata and Ramayana right to incorporate favored cultural themes whenever invaders overran North India are native? The only difference I can see between these terms you use is timelines, and who the winners are.
JGandhi
You show little in the way of knowledge about the art form and how it’s actually practiced, so I’ll give you some leeway here. If you wish to ‘de-hinduize’ bharatanatyam, or insert that agenda into my post, feel free to do so! (Just don’t expect any response)
Al beruni
I’m glad that some peoples’ Hindutva pots are sufficiently stirred to respond (not louiecypher). Again, I’m not talking about the limitations, I asked the mutineer community to come forward and share their experiences. Apparently this is an invitation for Hindu fundies of all stripes to bravely rail against arguments that I never made.
Who are you, Al Beruni, to question my credibility when it is you who cannot tell a sarrukal aduvu from an asamyutha hastha? I’ve danced, sung and performed on stage, in black-box theaters and at outdoor festivals. What I see is a tremendous diversity among BN students and I wondered how the non-traditional students were faring. Since you’re not one of them, or interested in meaningful discourse, this will be my first and last response to you.
58 · nala
you’ve more or less hit what I’ve been thinking of, regarding the conflict between what is essentially a very Hindu art form and adherents who are either not Hindu or not acculturated sufficiently. In order to be a great dancer, to project emotion without making a sound, one must ‘feel it’—the spiritual component of dance, which is why it is sometimes (especially in the Natya Shastra) considered a form of meditation. I was interested in how the non-traditional students negotiate this passage.
69 · lifelong
he’s closer than you think, just follow your nose.
44 · nala
The ‘easy route’ refers to those who come by Bharatanatyam after Hindu acculturation. There is nothing easy about life as a dancer.
43 · rob
The reason I’m focusing this ‘unpacking’ on the cultural side is because the demographic reality of BN classes has started to change —from being 100% ABD Hindu-identified kids to anyone who cares to join. You wouldn’t believe the following that a single decent BN performer can get just by doing a lecture-demonstration for dance major students at any university. I think we can no longer focus on the discursive construction of ‘community’ when the classroom is becoming more heterogeneous—the tools to expand the BN canon are there and we should be using them.
I’m shamelessly mixing a bit of “sprinkler“, with “screwing the light bulb”, some “funky chicken” with “feeding the chickens” and no one can stop me! Mhaw haw haw(maniacal laughter)
http://narthaki.com/nforum/messages/6738.html
Amusing that I am seeing this at a time when my teenager identifies himself as a Hindu-American, I think it is a really brilliant term! He goes to India every year and loves it. He says, he is American first and last.
67 · JGandhi said
Who said we were under it? Why do you have such a chip on your shoulder? I don’t think anyone has demanded that Bhartanatyam be stripped of all of its significance and history, which is indisputably Hindu in religion and not just culture, but it sure must be fun to imagine such crucifix-toting barbarians at the gate.
I think the element of divisiveness is when Hinduism, however presented, is described as an all-encompassing and inherent part of one’s heritage or history — i.e., that it is somehow more intrinsically “Indian” than any other religion or community group. This is also how classical arts are presented in the diaspora; bharata natyam and other classical dances from the South are presented as more authentic, indeed, more “Indian,” than the folk traditions and classical art in the north. For example, among many in the diaspora, there is a sense that qawwalis are not Indian because they are affiliated with the influence of Islam, whereas kuchipuddi is. Similarly, bhangra is “low art” because it is non-religious folk dance, but garba (which is devotional) is not. Even Diwali, which has different religious and cultural significance for at least three different religious groups, is a battle ground for those who believe diversity somehow chips away at the primacy of Hinduism.
The issue is not, in my opinion, over whether or not non-Hindus can appreciate or dance bharata natyam. The issue is around whether other religious and cultural traditions are allowed space to exist on an equal platform, whether they are respected, and whether they are given equal weight as also authentic parts of the multicultural and multireligious tapestry that makes up “Indian heritage.” Sadly, the presentation of Indian identity in the U.S. is often tied up with an exclusivist idea of identity (of which, being non-Hindu diminishes your claim to Indian-ness). If that is what Nayagan is referring to or getting towards, then I think he’s absolutely right to point out the frustrating and monolithic dialogue around what constitutes authenticity, heritage, and history in Indian identity.
In every single Bharatnatyam performance I’ve seen in the US, Ganesha sits in one corner of the stage, and the dancer invariably pays respects to him. I don’t remember seeing this in Chennai, for example, but I haven’t seen that many performances there. Anyone?
Camille,
I’m on-board with the rest of your comment, and this may be true at the discursive level, but my experience has been that the attitude of Kathakali/Kathak/Kuchipudi/Bharatanatyam dancers towards folk dances (of which there are many in the South) is based on the belief (IMHO absolutely correct) that most folk dances are nowhere near as complex as the classical art forms to which they are compared (i can only speak for BN). It wasn’t authenticity so much as a sense of superiority–which given your own tastes can vary widely.
97 · Camille said
Well-said, as always.