Soon after New Year’s Eve, we began receiving tips about a dreadful incident in Bombay involving two young couples who were on vacation (Thanks, Rahul and many others):
A mob of 70-80 men groped and molested two young women for some 15 minutes on a busy main street in Mumbai’s glamour district Juhu early on New Year’s Day.
An identical incident had shamed India’s safest city exactly a year ago — a girl was molested by New Year’s eve revellers at the Gateway of India. That incident was captured on film by a popular Mumbai tabloid; Tuesday morning’s horror was shot by two Hindustan Times lensmen who happened to be on the spot.
The women — one in a black dress, the other in a jeans and top — emerged from the JW Marriott with two male friends around 1.45 am, and began walking towards Juhu beach close by.
A mob of about 40 got after them and began teasing the women. One of the women swore loudly at the hooligans.
But the mob, now 70-80 strong, wouldn’t let go. They trapped the women near a vehicle and a tree, and pounced on them. A man in a white shirt tore off the black dress. Another, in a blue shirt, led the assault. As the women fell on the ground, dozens of men jumped on them. [HT]
The story and the wide-spread, collective anger it inspired grew considerably when the Police Inspector tasked with the case expressed himself in a regrettably insensitive way:
The comments of the Mumbai police commissioner, DN Jadhav further enraged the people: “Don’t make a mountain out of a molehill. Keep your wives at home if you want them safe. This kind of small things can happen anywhereâ€. [meri]
Excellent. Two women who were brutalized deserved it because they were out and about, instead of in the kitchen. While a few Mumbaikars agreed with that unfortunate view, others certainly did not:
Arjun Ghai, executive with an MNC says, “The act was shameful but the attitude of the police in this regard is even worse. If MF Hussain puts up his paintings or a Hollywood star kisses a Bollywood actress, the Shiv Sainiks come to life, but what about such cases? It is the people of our great nation who need to be blamed. I am sure those who were involved in this gruesome act had sisters and wives sitting at home. Did they think about them even for an instance? No wonder we are living among vultures ready to pounce on the flesh of vulnerable women at the drop of a hat.â€
Mira Sud, boutique owner opines, “I heard someone say that the girls might have been drunk or led the guys on. This is absolutely crazy. In a nation like ours where we worship Sita and Laxmi, people tend to lose their moral sense at times. Claiming that a woman might have been drunk is no reason or excuse. What about those instances where the men get drunk and pounce on women? Nobody blames them. In this male-dominated society of ours, we tend to blame the female gender without even considering the situation.â€[meri]
Thankfully, someone contradicted Jadhav:
The state’s Deputy Chief Minister R R Patil made a statement saying, that the police chief’s reaction was inappropriate and that the government was taking the matter seriously. [NDTV]
As I alluded to earlier, some of the more retrograde opinions (which I didn’t care to publicize or quote) declared that these women were “asking for it” by behaving shamelessly and not respecting traditions which apparently involve always staying at home, lest one entice a helpless man to molestation. Well, these weren’t disobedient, frisky, fornicating teens on the beach (not that they’d deserve any of this either).
The newly-wed, NRI couple who faced humiliation at the hands of a mob in Juhu on New Year’s eve, had married in a traditional ceremony in Gujarat just a day before the incident…
Hiten Patel and his wife had come down to Mumbai along with Hiten’s cousin and his wife a day after their wedding to bring in the New Year. The couple wanted to holiday in India for a fortnight before flying back home.
Hundreds of their friends and relatives from the US had flown down to India for the wedding. Hiten’s uncle Sunil Patel told TOI, “Hiten was born in the US and has lived in Texas. He runs his family-owned chain of motels. His wife is pursuing her MBA in the US and theirs was an arranged match.”
The couple is still in a state of shock following the molestation. Hiten’s wife has said she’s trying to “get over the horror” while expressing her anger over the fact that bystanders had not come to their rescue. But when Hiten spoke to TOI, he said there were some people in the crowd who tried to “help us pick up our belongings. I have not lodged a police complaint since I do not want the wrong people to be booked.” [TOIlet]
Do some of these the so-called traditionalists feel a little sorry for condemning these women, now that we know they were so obedient and homely, one of them allowed her parents to choose her husband? Sorry, what’s that? All I hear is crickets chirping. Now it is two weeks later, and the alleged culprits are denying involvement:
The Juhu molestation case accused on Wednesday said that they were innocent. Addressing the media, the accused who are out on bail, said that they were merely onlookers who were pushed by a crowd on the New Year’s Eve, and the photographers clicked the wrong persons.
The men, in a belligerent outburst, accused the media of jumping too fast to their own conclusions. One of them said that he was not even there at the spot when the incident occurred.
“We were returning from dinner and saw a crowd of 150 surrounding two couples. We became curious and got thrown into the scene. The photographers just clicked our pictures and the police took us for interrogation,†the accused said. [Zee]
But wait! There’s MORE. These men don’t know when to shut up, but that flaw gave me my title for this post, so a microscopic thank you to these perverts for that:
The men didn’t stop at that clarification. They said that while the newspapers splashed ‘molestation’ pictures, they did not write a word about how the girls in question were drunk.
“The couples were in an inebriated state. They were smooching on the road. What were they expecting?â€, they said. [Zee]
If this outrageous molestation of a new bride and her cousin wasn’t revolting enough, unfortunately several other instances of assault are in the news, some of them involving tourists, which has helped muddy India’s name on an international-scale.
Over New Year’s Eve, cases of molestation of tourists were reported both in Mumbai and Kochi.
A British journalist has alleged she was raped by the owner of the guesthouse in Udaipur where she was staying last week.
In another incident in Rajasthan, a 28-year-old American tourist was allegedly molested by a priest in front of a temple in the Hindu pilgrim town of Pushkar. The priest was subsequently arrested. [MalaysianSun]
2007 wasn’t so great for female travelers, either:
In March last year, the son of an important police official, was found guilty of raping a German researcher in Rajasthan.
Also last year, a Japanese tourist complained that she was drugged and raped by a group of men in Pushkar.
The latest report from the National Crime Records Bureau shows there has been a phenomenal eight-fold increase in rapes in India since 1971. [MalaysianSun]
About that appalling increase in rapes– Chachaji posted a link on the news tab which discusses exactly that chilling upward trend:
The latest crime statistics, pertaining to 2006, released by the Home Ministry’s National Crime Records Bureau (NCRB) show that every hour 18 women become victims of crime. The number of rapes a day has increased nearly 700 per cent since 1971 — when such cases were first recorded by NCRB. It has grown from seven cases a day to 53.
The figure grew 5.5 per cent over the number of cases registered in 2005.
In comparison, all other crimes have grown by 300 per cent since 1953 when the NCRB started keeping records.
And these are just the cases that have been reported; the number of unreported cases is far higher. [HT]
Now that last bit has been on my mind while wading through all of these links that so many of you mutineers were kind enough to send in– is there an increase in the number of rapes or an increase in the number of rapes which are being reported?
According to NCRB figures, among 35 cities with a population of more than a million, Delhi topped the list of crimes against women with 4,134 cases (nearly one-fifth of the total crimes against women). One-third of the rapes and a fifth of the molestations took place in the city. Hyderabad was second most dangerous for women with 1,755 cases.
Among the states, Andhra Pradesh had the highest number of crimes committed against women — 21,484 cases or 13 per cent of the total cases in 2006. Uttar Pradesh was a close second, with 9.9 per cent of such crimes. Madhya Pradesh reported the highest number of rape cases, at 2,900, and also molestation cases. [HT]
Frustration is palpable, and not surprising. Tourism is important to Incredible India. Beyond that, regular ol’ Indians and NRIs are rightfully angered by such ugly acts. Yes, India has a conflicted view of women; for all the negativity associated with issues like infanticide, dowry deaths and other well-known social ills, there is also a strain of that so-called “traditionalism” (which the accused disgustingly attempted to use as justification for their reprehensible actions) which is protective of women. India is that complicated and that simple.
In DC, desi cab drivers in their idling Crown Victorias duck slightly to peer at stranger-me, their faces filled with worry, until I unlock the inner doors to my apartment lobby, enter and wave gratefully– they hear these news stories and feel anguish as they replace the victims at Juhu with their own kin. They worry out loud that India is changing and for the worse. Why do they wait to make sure I’m safely inside those glass doors? Because during my ride home from work or Trader Joe’s, they’re telling me about how they have a daughter my age or a niece who also took her Master’s at GW. There are more of these men than those who emulate the after-goodies mob at Juhu, but they will be obscured by all this scandal.
It must be so frustrating; at a time when so many exciting, promising things are happening in India, what is a foreign country going to cover– the Nano or the brutal rape of one of their female citizens? Even if they publish stories on both, which will retain the most mindshare, especially among those who are predisposed to believe the worst?
What the perpetrators of these sexual assaults fail to understand is that in commiting these lust-fueled, power-hungry attacks, they don’t just bruise or traumatize innocent women; they thoughtlessly and recklessly give their country a black eye, as well. If nothing else convinces these assholes to keep their hands to themselves, perhaps it might be effective to convey to them that a Cricket-related slight isn’t the only reason to obsess over India’s reputation; if they care so much about their country’s honor because of an unfair decision in Australia, they should spare a thought for India’s honor off the pitch, too.
wow–didnt realize what i started with the safety pin story –all sorts of “pin defense and offense” comments. for those who said that if the prickee were to start screaming and accusing the woman, all a woman has to do is to smile and plead ignorance. but, even though we thought we were so clever and laughed, we didn’t think about what a guy with an injured ego might do to retaliate. perhaps, we didnt think about retaliation from these men, because truly it was just another hassle of daily life–like catching your bus on time, making to class on time etc. another defence is the umbrella defense–in the indian monsoons, one always carries an umbrella –a bold friend of mine meted out a few whacks with umbrellas. now i dont take public transport anymore, so have no recent experience with these things.
and for women raised in america, you probably have no concept of “roadside romeos”. i think people in the US probably just mind their own business and dont even look twice just because you are walking down the street in a tank top or a pair of shorts etc. ( sorry if i am straying a bit from the general discussion), but growing up in india, i didnt wear anything revealing or short because then you would be assured whistles and catcalls from groups of men standing by the road side with nothing better to do –hence the term “roadside romeos”. now though things have changed in some of the bigger cities –teenagers do walk about in tank tops etc
I guess my lead in to the story was probably not clear enough. My point was that as some posters have pointed out, harassment is ignored by the police. So when it comes to enforcement, what the police consider harassment is subjective and inconsistent or as in the case of the story I posted, something that they invent. I hope you see what I was trying to bring up for discussion. Admittedly I didn’t sprinkle the post with clever Monty Python links 🙂
Fair enough, though as you will note some posters use any thread to veer it to their favorite topics or youtube links. Seems like self absorption I think. Ok, am done.
HMF@341: That was my point, I dont go to great lengths to double check grammar, I actually engage the point.
Let’s give this one more shot. HMF, there are a few people on this forum, who see you missing the point, and the grammar, repeatedly. In all seriousness, the consensus is that you pick on irrelevant parts of a post, quote without context, twist the facts and then take the conversation off topic losing sight of the bigger picture, in an effort to “prove your point.” I don’t know if this is a product of youth, boredom, malice or North Jersey, but as you have found the behavior gets noticed, marked and dismissed, at which point further posts are ignored or read for bathroom humor, much like anything the president says.
HMF@341: However there are those that do not.
I am loathe to explicate irony because it is such a buzzkill, but in keeping with the one last shot deal… The post you quoted, by me, was an attempt (with the subtle preface “here are some examples of nickel-and-dime debate”) to show you, using simple examples you can relate to (i.e. you), that a-we all live in glasshouses and b-anybody can pick on a post, pull out irrelevant crap and divert attention to things that have nothing to do with the debate at hand. Also, your personal attacks & name-calling, sweeping generalizations and yes poor grammar, generally lower the level of the debate. Some of those weaknesses would easily be overlooked, if you didn’t attack others for those exact same weaknesses and paint yourself as the paragon of logic while you are painfully tying your legs in pretty knots in the process of inserting in your mouth! Irony strike you yet??
This is slightly sad, because I think you could contribute quite a bit. You clearly have a unique perspective, and this can add a lot to any forum. I hope you continue to post good content, sans the extra sauce. Cheers!
353 · Vikram said
I don’t really care about the YouTube links mostly because 80% of the time, I can’t look at them, but as for “favorite topics”, I don’t know if they are loved or just addictive. Believe me, I would be fine if we didn’t have a 47th rehashing of Malcolm X vs. starting Investment Banks. 🙂 Thanks again for being so courteous about registering your discontent. 😀
355 · A N N A said
not “vs” ANNNA! I’m saying Malcolm would’ve started an Ibank…had calypso louis & co let him live. But he didn’t so we’ve all been reduced to poking the Man with pins.
The arbitrariness of police is legion.
Here’s a private joke, admittedly in the black comedy genre. Again about the heavy handedness of authorities supposed to protect us.
Also, your personal attacks & name-calling, sweeping generalizations
How about you show me a personal attack or name call in the very post you link to?
if you didn’t attack others for those exact same weaknesses and paint yourself as the paragon of logic while you are painfully tying your legs in pretty knots in the process of inserting in your mouth! Irony strike you yet??
interesting, your link to prove my lack of logical foundation is linking to someone who says “you are medieval? in your thinking” of course offering zero proof or any kind of analysis
alright, I guess going after the grammar has lost its spunk, so now you just resort to linking to random posts without actually showing or detailing why your point and the linked post has any correlation. Let me try this method.
Harbeer, you drink too much of your last syllable, because you seem to chime in on debates in the final stages and offer little answer to the issue, rather just links to random sh*t that have little to no obvious bearing on the discussion at hand.
Oh shit, you’re harlem sun, not harbeer. I just have so many enemies, its hard to keep em straight sometime.
Irony strike you yet??
No, Im busy trying to figure out how your links remotely prove the claims you’re making.
sigh.
I love feeling prematurely OLD before my time/uterus, but here we go:
HMF, don’t you think you should apologize to Harbeer? That was unkind, especially since he didn’t do anything.
Can’t you all play nice?? Should I be desi and threaten to turn your kundis red or should I be Amreekan and give you a time-out?
Harbeer, absolutely. It was a typo and I just got the H’s that have had beef w/me confused.
362 · A N N A said
what? no ‘lifetime imprisonment at dosa-serving place that-is-not-Amma’s-and-must-not-be-mentioned’? If one continues to say as much pointless stuff as this one fellow does, especially when it’s clear you’re not any sort of authority on the issue and that substantive and instructive differences in opinion are no longer possible on whatever irrelevant tack that one has selected, I’d think it normal that some of our more witty commenters would let it all go under the bridge till critical mass of aforementioned inanity is reached. Then it’s hammer time.
I’d say just let them sort it out.
i can hear pin drop
this is true to some extent. But does not explain every instance of such behaviour.
btw, the arrested boys were taken by the leader of the MNS ( Raj Thackeray) to meet the home minister RR PAtil.
Thackeray took the accused to Patil at his Malabar Hill residence because he believes that all of them were innocent and had therefore surrendered, MNS sources said. The MNS has been maintaining that the youth who were arrested were all innocent and that no Maharashtrian would behave in such a way…
While this thread debates india vs US.. debate here seems to be maharashtrian vs outsider ( read UP/ Bihar).. 🙁
259 · jackal said
Right, that which you disagree with is pointless, trollish and in the wrong direction.
By the time I had typed out my response the thread had moved 120 comments! Many of which had said what I wanted to say. Goes to show that you must not let any work come between you and your SM comment.
Trust me, if I thought I could get away with it, I would provide youtube links to U.K. bhangra songs on every thread.
A dance video is only acceptable if it is relevant to assault in a public place.
Safety Pin Mafia to Upgrade Arsenal!
I have no doubt that this evil product was conceived at Bilderberg Conference last year by the MNCs and the leadership of the Pink Pantherettes and Carmine Cougars (the junior and senior divisions of the Global Feminist Cabal) to reign in men worldwide. Why won’t anyone let boys be boys?
portmanteau, I don’t understand. If society “actually listens to our (women) customers”, can’t they just politely mention to their neighbors riding the subway that a guy “is getting his fondle on”. Aren’t you contradicting yourself? And when women dress fashionably, isn’t it just equivalent to wearing a sign around their necks that they want to be groped?
I will now proceed to jump out of my (Internet equipped) bathtub and run naked around town screaming ‘Eureka’ at my remarkable discovery.
What’s all the fuss about? Tasers have been around since 1993.
And when women dress fashionably, isn’t it just equivalent to wearing a sign around their necks that they want to be groped?
Yeah. thats exactly what I said. Especially this part right here:
“Comments and Gropes I’m with you, they are incorrect, and shouldn’t be explained away with wiring.”
The only question is, if you continue on this path of blatant mischaracterization should i expect a flood of youtube links from manju?
Boys, this is God speaking. I have some rules for you that I have set in cosmic opposition.
Look, but don’t touch! Touch, but don’t taste! Taste, don’t SWALLOW!
HA HA HA HA!
when a man fondles a woman’s breast in india, can’t he just claim that the woman fondled his hand with her breast? surely a male dominated sense of justice will prevail and these women will be collectively punished. if what you guys are saying about india is true, wouldn’t this be the logical course of action?
when a man fondles a woman’s breast in india, can’t he just claim that the woman fondled his hand with her breast?
Sure he can, but she can likewise claim that he shouldn’t complain about being a victim rather start a bank, and fondle his boot straps while telling him to pull them up.
Um… there is such a thing as drinking responsibly.
If the sight of an inebriated person or a couple “smooching” (as that oh-so-eloquent person put it) is enough to set off a mob, I think that speaks volumes about the maturity and self-control of the mob, rather than the state of the person or of the couple. Regardless of the circumstances, each and every human being has the responsibility to act as a decent, rational human being. I don’t think we can hold two different groups of people to different moral standards.
It’s always easier to accuse the victims of doing something wrong than it is to face the fact that society needs to change. A society that remains stuck in the past ends up stagnating, and as the world evolves, so should society. If we were meant to adhere to one set of beliefs, and completely disregard new ones, why do we have the ability to learn new concepts? As we find a new and better way of doing things, our behavior changes. It’s only natural.
As a woman, I have to take precautions to prevent situations like this (to the best of my ability, of course), however, those precautions only work if the people whom I encounter (on the street, in public places, etc.) behave rationally… or at the very least, possess some amount of self-control and do not invade my personal space. I can make the choice not to go to certain places, interact with certain people, or behave in a particular manner… but all of that doesn’t matter if a person feels an irrational sense of entitlement and attacks or harasses me.
Assuming that men have so little self-control that they must be allowed to molest or harass women in the streets doesn’t give them a higher position in society… if anything, it makes them inferior to everyone else. Accepting that men do this sort of thing and that keeping women and girls at home is the only method of prevention flies in the face of any pretense to modernity. We might as well bring out the Laws of Manu.
this is indeed a cultural problem, not just in India but in other “sexually repressed” societies as well. Go to other conservative places like Egypt, Morocco, etc. and you’ll see the same thing. Groups of young men hang on the corner yelling obscenities at any female with a pulse. Several gori friends of mine were groped repeatedly on their way to class, often by teens. This would NEVER happen here in Amrika. I agree with the above posters who attribute this to sexual frustration. A guy and girl kissing in public would not attract any attention in the West; in India a large group of 20 something males will inevitably gather and start giggling like 10 year olds watching their first porno.
whatever the reason behind this, i hope the scum that perpetrated this get a nice lathi beatdown, courtesy of the local inspector saab 🙂
267 · Lemur no. 4 said
You self-styled snivelling Bandar, I was critising not her choice of topic, but her analysis: the-commissioner-believes-women-deserve-to-be-molested type of tabloid twaddle.
Mostly from an online tabloid, actually.
That was a bit redeeming, I admit. But then she ruined it by speaking of the recent cricket controversy in a disparaging way. I had immense fun last week leaving devastating commentary for Australian bloggers that spoke of the issue. Why did she have to make me feel guilty?
Your characterisation, not mine. And really, if you tried staying away from India vs the world, ABCD vs (whoever you think I am) kind of characterisations, you may be able to analyse the issue at hand in a less sordid way.
But if you do wish to change topic in your own blog to ABCDs, I would say they are not always hypocritical, but often judgemental, politically correct and melodramatic. Sometimes in a jerky sort of fashion. And I DONT mean anna. I love anna.
Just tell her we (i.e. India) won the Test today. And that we dropped all our more important duties and celebrated on the streets, as unfocused third world types are wont to do. That will spoil her day alright.
I remember last year when I wrote here that I had read in an Indian newspaper article written by a woman that carrying safety pins on public transportation in India was a good way to keep hands and other things at bay. I shared how I had tried it. Venom was spewed at me, one person even accused me of spreading HIV. And here we see other desi women writing their experiencing with the same battle I waged in India for ten years, and confessing to using pins and all is right with the world.
I’m also accused of being “A mazda” and a host of other commenters on this thread.
To be honest, I use one moniker per thread, as requested by the bloggers.
I am also not computer savy enough to know how to change IP addresses. However, I do move around more than most people, due to my work, and hence am able to post from different IP addresses quite frequently. There are also times when I am “banned” at one IP address and able to post a few days later from the same one. So all of Rahul’s assumptions are off, quite off.
HMF, don’t know if your question regarding the reaction of men who get pricked with pins has been answered or not, but the few times I did it, there was no reaction.
I don’t think the men in India feel “entitled” to grope women, because if they felt it was an inalienable right, well, they wouldn’t be so sneaky and covert about it. We would expect them to rather enter a bus, sit down next to a woman and say loudly so that all the passengers can hear, “hey babe, I’m gonnna squeeze your boobs right now and you’re gonna love it”.
Instead, they pinch you on the left butt cheek when walking through Chandni Chowk, while they are swiftly passing you on your right side. By the time your head turns left looking for the culprit, he is ahead of you on the right side of the street. That is why, quite frankly, I do think there are times when innocent guys get accused and slapped. The covert and sleazy means which these guys employ to cop a feel and get away with it is nothing short of art or science.
Remember, these are the same guys who often married women they did not know or even like because their moms told them to. So, “sense of entitlement” does not apply in this case.
We are reading here about busses and trains but have any of you rode a tempo?
A tempo is a 3 wheeled vehicle, kind of like an oversized motor rickshaw, that comfortably seats 12 people, but is often packed to 25, standing room only, hanging off of roof and sides only. This is the common transport between small towns in the region I live. You do not want to be on an unlighted tempo at night. So many hands are coming at you from all directions and you cannot distinguish which face they belong to. It is very scary, humiliating and infuriating.
After reading this blog a number of days ago on Sepia, all of my previous engrams, samskars, memories, whatever you want to call them, of being sexually harrassed and frightened in India have returned and my mood dropped to depression and despondancy. Imagine having your heart, home, family, friends and everything/everyone you love in a place where you are just not safe as a woman. Where you are just not safe or respected because you are a woman. Hearing these things nobody wants to take their daughters to India for pilgrimage, which is a neccessary part of our religion.
My friends and I were discussing raising kids in America and how, compared to India, American kids can be rude, disrespectful, bratty, etc, and how Indian kids are much more respectful of elders. They were considering moving to India to have their kids educated. Then the topic of how girls are treated in India, especially with regards sexual harrassment and general safety came up, and, well, I’m sure you can guess everyone’s conclusion on where to raise their kids.
I have so many incidences to relate but won’t. The Indian women above in 200 posts or more have explained clearly the situation all we women face in India, regardless of age, size, color of skin or nationality.
It is epidemic. Not a safe place for a woman, bottom line.
Was watching a documentary on Woodstock lastnight. (why was I born too late?) Anyway, it started to rain on the festivities and there was this young, fit, naked woman bathing in the open rain. Hordes of people (young men) just walked right past her. Not even so much of a stare! And this at a time when people were just starting to shed their inhibitiions vis a vis sex and hippies were referred to as “freaks”!
Of course they felt safe doing that. they knew nixon would save them, as he sent the Army and National Guard flying in with food and medical supplies. its easy to be young carless and free when you know big daddy’s there to take care of you. for others life’s is just nasty, brutish and short.
There is a whole spectrum of behavior that is condoned or at the very least goes unpunished in India that would have social or legal reprecussions in the US. Take eve-teasing as the mild end of it (Think poster boy and original eve-teaser Krishna going after the giggling gopis). At the other end are the mob-attacks like the one in Juhu, which are an extension of all the other socially condoned behaviors that disrespect women.
Its ultimately an admission of defeat by a man who cant get a girl on his own, and has to use force and his friends to do it. I do agree that the power trip is the main goal and the sex is a side benefit.
The incidence in Juhu appears to be a confluence of New Years-related rowdy drunkards meeting NRIs who got a little too carried away with the India Shining thing and forgot that Juhu beach, esp at 2am, aint Malibu. But frankly, I wouldnt go on any urban beach at 2am. and feel completely safe. BTW, does molestation have a different connotation in India?
but the few times I did it, there was no reaction.
then why do it?
They stopped trying to feel my tits and stopped shoving their d**K against my arm, that’s why.
When I said “no reaction”, I meant they did not say or do anything (other than stop the behaviour).
Duh.
Sigh.
And HMF, I totally agree with you on the arranged marriage system. Actually, despite it’s benefits (and there are some, believe it or not), I feel it contributes to an already frustrated pysche.
HMF, why are you feeding the troll?
Oh jeez, point taken, didn’t realize this particular one was that hungry.
They why don’t you just foil them by turning right? And even if you guessed wrong, you can pull a Zoolander till you spot them.
Bottom lines are not unsafe, just unfashionable.
Sorry about the engrams. You know, what’s more fun? Anagrams! Let’s play. Like, you know:
A woman scorned: A sad mown crone, or
Pardesi Gori: A Rigid Poser
Oo, oo, I got another one. How about: “Gopi, err, Dasi“?
Ah, Krishna (or do you spell it Krsna?), he gives me words like cloth to Draupadi. Sore Arid Pig, he tells me now, with an impish smile and a knowing wink.
I’m happy to report Rahul’s heartfelt warnings goaded me into a PG-spotting expedition. I think the archives have helped me isolate three distinct characteristics of the troll (Pardesi Gori, MoS, videsi gori, Mistress of spices, carib queen). Here for the benefit of all SM readers riven with PG-fatigue:
As Rahul has correctly identified, it is not a woman, and it is not pardesi. My best guess is a Bengali man, DBD. The rationale is a little tenuous, but it draws from an analysis of more than 30 posts’ cultural and linguistic references. It may also be Borg.
Every post cites primary experience. It has done, seen, heard and felt everything that every other poster has written about, and comments on it as a primary observer, first-hand. All this on the first version of its firmware.
In about 75% of its posts, it has a conversation with itself. In the course of these, it often contradicts itself, usually within the same, long, run-on sentence. For instance (paraphrase) – “I’m sure all Indian cows are white, because I have lived in areas of India with many cows, and I have seen them all, but come to think of it I have also lived in Lapland and seen brown cows, and my friend in Norway has a hedgehog, so some cows are brown.”
Happy spotting.
I wish I had the time to comment on this in more detail.
The problem is not unique to India, but there are certainly problems with Indian society and culture that exacerbate it. One huge problem is that there are few socially legitimized places where men and women can interact. So any interaction with the opposite sex is, in a sense, illegitimate. This makes it very hard to draw a line between legitimate and illegitimate behavior.
But sexual repression is only part of it. Most of the worst eve-teasers are alpha-male types who get laid plenty. They have what in the US will be called a frat-boy mentality, and a sense of entitlement to go with it.
The Indian Express ran an op-ed on the class aspect of the issue a while ago.
I read that op-ed and disagree with the author’s premise that;
Her premise is that poor men in India are so un-intelligent that when they see a picture in the newspaper or other media of a rich, well-dressed man smooching a woman, they think the woman is a stranger and “if him, why not us?” and thus feel it is appropriate behaviour to sexually molest strangers in the street.
Number one, she would have to provide evidence that all the men who molested these women on New Year’s Eve were poor, which I doubt, and number two, I’m sure financially challenged men in India understand the concept of “relatonship” and “mutual attraction”.
She asks if such behaviour, she uses the word “smooching”, is acceptable for one class of man and not another. Smooching is acceptable behaviour for anyone, provided the person they are smooching wants to be smooched by them. It doesn’t take a crorepati to figure that out. Her attitude towards the financially challenged class in India is really patronizing at best and downright insulting at worst.
Really her argument about “class” makes no sense when you break it down.
If she was the only fit naked woman at that concert, you bet a lot of guys would be staring. I have been to rockfests where at least one big tittayed woman or two will flash their tittays at the band. And they get stared at by a lot of people around them. What about the Jets game controversy?
Pravin, in the segmet I saw no one was even looking at her. They were just passing right on by as she showered in the rainfall. Sure, I’m sure some people at some point must’ve looked. But having just read this page dripping with analysis of attitudes in India, it struck me as such a difference, as well as a huge contrast with what I’ve experienced there.
Then again, it was WOODSTOCK, the height of the hippie era where I guess such scenes did not phase anyone.
I wish India could find a balance between the American hippie era and the modern day Indian era, in regards attitudes and approaches towards women and sexuality.
India is not nearly as repressed as Saudi Arabia and perhaps some other gulf countries. In fact, by their standards India is “too free”. However there still is an unhealthy segregation of the genders there which often leads to “mystique” surrounding the opposite gender and healthy sexuality. Being a member of an Indian sect that does practice some forms of gender segregation, there are times when it can be healthy and appreciated by both males and females. However, it has to be kept in a check and balance otherwise you see weird behaviours and attitudes popping up in even the Western practicioners of the sect, and some of them came from very free, liberal, hippie backgrounds! Some tend to go from one extreme to another, and in that way, become negatively influenced by the current condition of India regarding these subjects. I guess those practicioners have failed to separate culture from religion.
Again balance is needed.
Aren’t you giving Indian men too much credit, PG?
Rahul, according to your link, the first definition is;
Very fitting! I’ve been cut down by a (fair and lovely/handsome) Scythian.
At first I thought so too, Nala. But realistically speaking, the financially challenged segment in India is a HUGE segment and they also have the concept of marriage, and by extension, the concept of “relationship”, “mutual attraction” etc. So I think the author of the op-ed piece was just trying to squeeze out some “class issue” out of this where there is none, and she did a poor job.
If, as she asserts, they cannot distinguish between “smooching” a woman they are in a relationship with from kissing a stranger who is not interested, then well, I think they would be openly kissing and feeling up each other’s mothers when visiting friends at their homes.
Then again, maybe things are going on that I am not privy to?