Soon after New Year’s Eve, we began receiving tips about a dreadful incident in Bombay involving two young couples who were on vacation (Thanks, Rahul and many others):
A mob of 70-80 men groped and molested two young women for some 15 minutes on a busy main street in Mumbai’s glamour district Juhu early on New Year’s Day.
An identical incident had shamed India’s safest city exactly a year ago — a girl was molested by New Year’s eve revellers at the Gateway of India. That incident was captured on film by a popular Mumbai tabloid; Tuesday morning’s horror was shot by two Hindustan Times lensmen who happened to be on the spot.
The women — one in a black dress, the other in a jeans and top — emerged from the JW Marriott with two male friends around 1.45 am, and began walking towards Juhu beach close by.
A mob of about 40 got after them and began teasing the women. One of the women swore loudly at the hooligans.
But the mob, now 70-80 strong, wouldn’t let go. They trapped the women near a vehicle and a tree, and pounced on them. A man in a white shirt tore off the black dress. Another, in a blue shirt, led the assault. As the women fell on the ground, dozens of men jumped on them. [HT]
The story and the wide-spread, collective anger it inspired grew considerably when the Police Inspector tasked with the case expressed himself in a regrettably insensitive way:
The comments of the Mumbai police commissioner, DN Jadhav further enraged the people: “Don’t make a mountain out of a molehill. Keep your wives at home if you want them safe. This kind of small things can happen anywhereâ€. [meri]
Excellent. Two women who were brutalized deserved it because they were out and about, instead of in the kitchen. While a few Mumbaikars agreed with that unfortunate view, others certainly did not:
Arjun Ghai, executive with an MNC says, “The act was shameful but the attitude of the police in this regard is even worse. If MF Hussain puts up his paintings or a Hollywood star kisses a Bollywood actress, the Shiv Sainiks come to life, but what about such cases? It is the people of our great nation who need to be blamed. I am sure those who were involved in this gruesome act had sisters and wives sitting at home. Did they think about them even for an instance? No wonder we are living among vultures ready to pounce on the flesh of vulnerable women at the drop of a hat.â€
Mira Sud, boutique owner opines, “I heard someone say that the girls might have been drunk or led the guys on. This is absolutely crazy. In a nation like ours where we worship Sita and Laxmi, people tend to lose their moral sense at times. Claiming that a woman might have been drunk is no reason or excuse. What about those instances where the men get drunk and pounce on women? Nobody blames them. In this male-dominated society of ours, we tend to blame the female gender without even considering the situation.â€[meri]
Thankfully, someone contradicted Jadhav:
The state’s Deputy Chief Minister R R Patil made a statement saying, that the police chief’s reaction was inappropriate and that the government was taking the matter seriously. [NDTV]
As I alluded to earlier, some of the more retrograde opinions (which I didn’t care to publicize or quote) declared that these women were “asking for it” by behaving shamelessly and not respecting traditions which apparently involve always staying at home, lest one entice a helpless man to molestation. Well, these weren’t disobedient, frisky, fornicating teens on the beach (not that they’d deserve any of this either).
The newly-wed, NRI couple who faced humiliation at the hands of a mob in Juhu on New Year’s eve, had married in a traditional ceremony in Gujarat just a day before the incident…
Hiten Patel and his wife had come down to Mumbai along with Hiten’s cousin and his wife a day after their wedding to bring in the New Year. The couple wanted to holiday in India for a fortnight before flying back home.
Hundreds of their friends and relatives from the US had flown down to India for the wedding. Hiten’s uncle Sunil Patel told TOI, “Hiten was born in the US and has lived in Texas. He runs his family-owned chain of motels. His wife is pursuing her MBA in the US and theirs was an arranged match.”
The couple is still in a state of shock following the molestation. Hiten’s wife has said she’s trying to “get over the horror” while expressing her anger over the fact that bystanders had not come to their rescue. But when Hiten spoke to TOI, he said there were some people in the crowd who tried to “help us pick up our belongings. I have not lodged a police complaint since I do not want the wrong people to be booked.” [TOIlet]
Do some of these the so-called traditionalists feel a little sorry for condemning these women, now that we know they were so obedient and homely, one of them allowed her parents to choose her husband? Sorry, what’s that? All I hear is crickets chirping. Now it is two weeks later, and the alleged culprits are denying involvement:
The Juhu molestation case accused on Wednesday said that they were innocent. Addressing the media, the accused who are out on bail, said that they were merely onlookers who were pushed by a crowd on the New Year’s Eve, and the photographers clicked the wrong persons.
The men, in a belligerent outburst, accused the media of jumping too fast to their own conclusions. One of them said that he was not even there at the spot when the incident occurred.
“We were returning from dinner and saw a crowd of 150 surrounding two couples. We became curious and got thrown into the scene. The photographers just clicked our pictures and the police took us for interrogation,†the accused said. [Zee]
But wait! There’s MORE. These men don’t know when to shut up, but that flaw gave me my title for this post, so a microscopic thank you to these perverts for that:
The men didn’t stop at that clarification. They said that while the newspapers splashed ‘molestation’ pictures, they did not write a word about how the girls in question were drunk.
“The couples were in an inebriated state. They were smooching on the road. What were they expecting?â€, they said. [Zee]
If this outrageous molestation of a new bride and her cousin wasn’t revolting enough, unfortunately several other instances of assault are in the news, some of them involving tourists, which has helped muddy India’s name on an international-scale.
Over New Year’s Eve, cases of molestation of tourists were reported both in Mumbai and Kochi.
A British journalist has alleged she was raped by the owner of the guesthouse in Udaipur where she was staying last week.
In another incident in Rajasthan, a 28-year-old American tourist was allegedly molested by a priest in front of a temple in the Hindu pilgrim town of Pushkar. The priest was subsequently arrested. [MalaysianSun]
2007 wasn’t so great for female travelers, either:
In March last year, the son of an important police official, was found guilty of raping a German researcher in Rajasthan.
Also last year, a Japanese tourist complained that she was drugged and raped by a group of men in Pushkar.
The latest report from the National Crime Records Bureau shows there has been a phenomenal eight-fold increase in rapes in India since 1971. [MalaysianSun]
About that appalling increase in rapes– Chachaji posted a link on the news tab which discusses exactly that chilling upward trend:
The latest crime statistics, pertaining to 2006, released by the Home Ministry’s National Crime Records Bureau (NCRB) show that every hour 18 women become victims of crime. The number of rapes a day has increased nearly 700 per cent since 1971 — when such cases were first recorded by NCRB. It has grown from seven cases a day to 53.
The figure grew 5.5 per cent over the number of cases registered in 2005.
In comparison, all other crimes have grown by 300 per cent since 1953 when the NCRB started keeping records.
And these are just the cases that have been reported; the number of unreported cases is far higher. [HT]
Now that last bit has been on my mind while wading through all of these links that so many of you mutineers were kind enough to send in– is there an increase in the number of rapes or an increase in the number of rapes which are being reported?
According to NCRB figures, among 35 cities with a population of more than a million, Delhi topped the list of crimes against women with 4,134 cases (nearly one-fifth of the total crimes against women). One-third of the rapes and a fifth of the molestations took place in the city. Hyderabad was second most dangerous for women with 1,755 cases.
Among the states, Andhra Pradesh had the highest number of crimes committed against women — 21,484 cases or 13 per cent of the total cases in 2006. Uttar Pradesh was a close second, with 9.9 per cent of such crimes. Madhya Pradesh reported the highest number of rape cases, at 2,900, and also molestation cases. [HT]
Frustration is palpable, and not surprising. Tourism is important to Incredible India. Beyond that, regular ol’ Indians and NRIs are rightfully angered by such ugly acts. Yes, India has a conflicted view of women; for all the negativity associated with issues like infanticide, dowry deaths and other well-known social ills, there is also a strain of that so-called “traditionalism” (which the accused disgustingly attempted to use as justification for their reprehensible actions) which is protective of women. India is that complicated and that simple.
In DC, desi cab drivers in their idling Crown Victorias duck slightly to peer at stranger-me, their faces filled with worry, until I unlock the inner doors to my apartment lobby, enter and wave gratefully– they hear these news stories and feel anguish as they replace the victims at Juhu with their own kin. They worry out loud that India is changing and for the worse. Why do they wait to make sure I’m safely inside those glass doors? Because during my ride home from work or Trader Joe’s, they’re telling me about how they have a daughter my age or a niece who also took her Master’s at GW. There are more of these men than those who emulate the after-goodies mob at Juhu, but they will be obscured by all this scandal.
It must be so frustrating; at a time when so many exciting, promising things are happening in India, what is a foreign country going to cover– the Nano or the brutal rape of one of their female citizens? Even if they publish stories on both, which will retain the most mindshare, especially among those who are predisposed to believe the worst?
What the perpetrators of these sexual assaults fail to understand is that in commiting these lust-fueled, power-hungry attacks, they don’t just bruise or traumatize innocent women; they thoughtlessly and recklessly give their country a black eye, as well. If nothing else convinces these assholes to keep their hands to themselves, perhaps it might be effective to convey to them that a Cricket-related slight isn’t the only reason to obsess over India’s reputation; if they care so much about their country’s honor because of an unfair decision in Australia, they should spare a thought for India’s honor off the pitch, too.
98 · louiecypher said
I know of such a beach…
i don’t think this is biased media coverage –this heinous incident occurred –it needs to be highlighted.period. media coverage can change things –for example, there was a young woman in delhi ( i am just blanking on the name) who was murdered by a man she didnt go out with –he was the son of a prominent politician and he initially got off scot-free. there was a huge media uproar and the common man in india protested –the case was retried and he was sentenced. it is only one case, but it illustrates that media attention is how the process of justice can start
lc, the problem with this mob behavior as well as others is that it is qualitatively different from tweaking in its brazenness. The surreptitious assault of women by pathetic characters is a common feature of all crowded subways – Bombay, New York, Tokyo, but people get away with far worse in India, primarily because of inconsistent, ineffective, and corrupt law enforcement and judicial punitive action (I recall a (female) Bombay judge from a couple of years ago who gained notoriety after releasing a couple of rapists with minimal or no prison terms because they claimed they were the sole breadwinners of their families).
I am a DBD, raised in Delhi, went to college in bombay. Whenever I think about moving back to india, the safety issue is the foremost in my mind. I just don’t know if I can deal with that shit again. Honestly, before I came to the US I could not imagine a place where such casual undeterred harrasment did not exist. I just imagined a place where it was less intense.
You don’t have to be drunk in India to get harassed. Every minute you are out in public – any crowded place, whether it is day or night, whether you are accompanied by men or not – your radar is on high alert, for that slight movement behind you, to your side, when some a**hole makes a move to rub against you or grope you. I know it sounds dramatic – but you just move that way, quick, alert, sidestepping the fellow who tries to walk straight into you. Every woman who was born and raised in India knows what I am talking about.
I know there are quite a few south indians on this thread – I have been lurking here for a while. One thing that really troubles me about Tamil movies is the way in which violence (sexual and physical) against women is depicted. It is unbelievable and disgusting. If you have watched “Boys” , you might remember the scene in which one of the teenage boys brushes against women’s butts in a bus. And no – he is not rebuked or beaten. Instead we are encouraged to view this behavior as normal and part of the process of growing up, hormones etc. What message does this send out to young boys out there ?
:)) And that is the reason why I am so surprised that this happened in Mumbai. I guess Mumbai has changed.
I was thinking abt this post and remembered the old hindi movie “Ghar” (Rekha, Vinod Mehra). The whole movie revolved around similar incidence. But the point that Anna brought up abt the husband, was dealt very well in that movie.
this is exactly what makes me sad (and livid); i was kinda hoping that the rest of india (especially the north and the cow belt) would come to resemble mumbai in time…..i am highly pissed
I agree, catcalling women is considered standard portrayal of the college going heroes and their buddies, as is far worse, especially in movies set in a rural milieu. Although this portrayal is only similar to the depictions that were common in 80s Hindi movies (Sadashiv Amrapurkar made quite a name for himself playing rapacious politicians with the standard scene of the unlucky woman crying “Naheen” and the camera duly panning to the ceiling fan where the saree is now stuck and revolving), and it is just that most current Hindi cinema is primarily based on urban upper middle class youth.
There was a discussion on portrayals in Tamil films a few months ago on another thread, starting about here.
I remember when I was a kid of about 5 or 6 sitting in a BEST bus with my aunt a couple of seats ahead, when a tremendously obese woman sat next to me, with her comparably corpulent lady friend standing and talking to her. A couple of stops passed, and then the friend wanted to sit down, the woman next to me asked me if it would be ok, and when I said ok, slid further into the seat with the friend next to her. Suffice it to say, that a few nudges and adjustments later, I was slowly squeezed out of the seat like an orange in a juicer.
So, yeah, I’m not messing with women in Mumbai public transport 🙂
97 · Rahul said
Good call on this link. (and on PG). I can’t believe this is being turned into a political issue. “No one from Maharashtra could be capable of doing such a thing.” (paraphrased quote from Rahul’s link at 97) WTF. That’s why the mob does what it does, because there’s no consequence. As long as politicians like these that condone these acts in the name of a vote, this garbage will continue.
Have people seen the slide-show of these pictures? One of the women had henna on her hands and feet that was clearly visible. Where’s the damn respect for someone’s bride?
aaah…brings back childhood memories; like the time that a poor sod was literally thrown out of the women’s compartment in the ghatkopar platform when he climbed in the compartment in vikhroli (the train was too crowded)
typo, i meant “climbed onto”
In a recent tamil film I saw ,the very sophisticated and suave hero tells his girl friend,how bad it is for girls to wear western clothes after seeing 2 young girls walking on the roads in mini skirts and spaghetti straps. He holds forth saying although indian men wear western clothes ,they dont reveal their body parts.while the so-called westernised women do!
Dialogue lecturing women on their proper attire, behavior and social order is extremely common in Tamil movies. Every movie of Rajinikanth has him making some statements about revealing western clothes on women (for example, his most recent one, Sivaji) or about how women should be humble, retiring, and obedient (Padayappa, for one, but you can pretty much pick any movie of his). And a popular Tamil film song (from Vandicholai Chinrasu), which is quite catchy, has lyrics that go: Oh girl from beautiful Tamilnadu, Why do you refrain from wearing sarees? In this land that does textiles, You wander about in swimsuits (Ed. note – where swimsuits are calf length skirts and some sort of top, which I forget) The beauty that should be seen only by your husband Is now being showcased for the world The song is of course sung by the hero and his friends, who see fit to heckle this woman by trailing her in broad daylight as she walks around.
Ah yes, Its that dang eeeeevil, primitive Indian men thread again. As if groping, sexual assault etc is not common in the US. For example, take a large university like Virginia Tech
http://www.stopabuse.vt.edu/statistics.php
Look at the statictics, about one-quarter of all VT undergrads have been the victim of atleast one sexual assault incident in their 4 years. 76% of rapes will go unreported. Who do you think is the majority perpetrator of these crimes (Hint : Eeeevil Indian men are less than 5% of the total student population). Now if we are to discuss the general attitude of the male vis-a-vis the female and its relationship to the likelihood of sexual assault and how to stop sexual assault, fine. Sexual assault is a heinous crime that should be severly punished.But just stuff it with your oh-so-superior attitude (PS: This exclusively applies to “a scorned woman”). To “a scorned woman”, please stay out of India and you never will be the victim of these eeeevil, medivial Indian men again. Oh and BTW, I have just given an example of how great and pure American men are. You will be much,much safer here away from sexually frustrated, eeeeevil Indian men.
Millions of people in India are outraged about this shameful incident and rightly so, can’t we have an honest discussion about it without some insecure commenter barging in with how America is just as bad, if not worse?
RandomDude, your comment is irrelevant, disrespectful to the Juhu victims and unproductive. If you can’t contribute to the thread in a constructive way, please refrain, for the benefit of everyone else who is able to.
will someone please explain how this works – if something is unreported how does one arrive at the figures. I am confused.
You have a social scientist do “household surveys” (sort of like a private census) and then compare info. on reported crime to official police reports. Not perfect, but gives some insight.
rob – thank you
to random dude: a comparision of america and india is simply not what this is about and simply belittles the issue.
in fact, in this case no FIR was even filed by the police!!!! it was only public outrage that prompted some action on the part of the police. it is only because there were some media people there who clicked a few photos that this incident got nationwide attention in india and is being condemned in india by every right thinking indian–it is this condemnation that prompted some action on the part of the police. our inept police system is a huge part of this problem and the media needs to highlight this as well.
To SM Intern, I am outraged too and I am all for swift, merciless justice being meted out to these punks. I am also for discussing ways to better the gender relations in India and inculcate respect for women in males and see them as partners rather than sex objects.
However, the problem is any time anna posts these threads with a good intention, it gets hijacked into a criticism of all Indian males and Indian society in general. I just provided the VT example to prove that sexual assault is a generic problem not an exclusively Indian one, as many lurkers here seem to suggest. This is what ticks me off. I am all for discussing how such crimes can be prevented and for tougher policing action on the perps. Please let us not turn this into another Indian male bashing thread, thats all
To melbourne desi, I guess they get these statistics from the number of cases reported to cops vs. rape counselors. Just a guess of course.
i would say that anna’s discussion of this issue was a fair and balanced one. i think all the commenters agree that there is a segment of indian men who are scum –as an indian woman in india, i can vouch for this. if india is to continue to develop as a progressive society, then highlighting what ails this society is important –segueing into a discussion of VT doesnt help in any way. i think we all agree that crimes occur everywhere —but indian women everyday face in small ways harassment from men with the euphemism called ‘eve teasing” and india needs to become a society where women are truly safe and truly respected
:”Dialogue lecturing women on their proper attire, behavior and social order is extremely common in Tamil movies. Every movie of Rajinikanth has him making some statements about revealing western clothes on women (for example, his most recent one, Sivaji) or about how women should be humble, retiring, and obedient (Padayappa, for one, but you can pretty much pick any movie of his). “
somehow popular culture in our country never depicts women as normal human beings,with normal desires and aspirations wanting to lead normal lives.They are either shedding martyrs or auperwomen who have mega achievements .Except for a few stray multiplex films ,the new day indian woman is never shown as she really is either in cinema or in any of the amazing popular television serials.Why?is reality and normalcy boring?
typo ….I meant “super women”
How serious is a charge of eve-teasing? Other than the social stigma, will a conviction affect the culprits in any way? (any jail time?)
You’re kidding, right?
Nothing unusual there. Most movies, at least the commercial ones, put their protagonists through some kind of unreal scenarios, be it in Bollywood or Hollywood. That’s not the real issue. (And heroines are an afterthought in most Hollywood action films too, as they are in Indian films).
I will be honest with you but there is something that the media has not highlighted
Bystanders have reported that both couples were heavily drunk and were seen kissing and hugging each other in a delirious state … Now add some sex starved people who are equally drunk and we get this incident
127 · Service apartments bangalore said
That evoked a very shaun-of-the-deadesque image in my mind
This is the cognitive divide. You and “the man on the street” think the couple’s behavior is relevant, most of the SM readership does not.
PTR_vivek, I’ve never had any trouble at Varkala or any other Kerala beach but then again I was solo. If the resorts are ejecting well behaved groups of young local Indian men it is of course wrong. I think economics will begin to sort things out in at least some venues now that we have an increasing amount of domestic Indian tourists
RandomDude – this has been an exceedingly balanced thread, and no one has been bashing all Indian men. That being said, if there has been criticism of certain aspects of contemporary Indian society that condone and accept such behavior, it is entirely warranted and needed. As has been pointed earlier, there is a deeply hypocritical undercurrent that exists where the image of the pure/chaste woman is exalted and worshipped, yet assaults on women are given a ‘chalta hai’ attitude by the cops and some non-trivial section of society.
My female cousins in India have to put up with this crap (even in Bombay) and I find it intolerable and unacceptable. They simply would not face this on a day-to-day basis in most of the developed world and many other countries in the developing world as well. Someone earlier mentioned getting rid of the term ‘eve-teasing’, and I agree. It’s molestation/groping/sexual assault, period.
You know, there’s (sadly) a potentially huge, untapped market in selling pepper-spray, tasers and other self-defense items like that in India (especially Delhi, from what I’ve been told). With all the negative publicity tasers have been getting in Canada and the US, perhaps these companies can find new markets here.. any flaws in the technology would, after all, only add to any potential deterrence effect.
Unless you have a link to prove this, it’s worthless rumormongering. Even if it isn’t, does it make what the mob did okay? This veers on “they got what they were asking for”-territory, and that is deplorable.
Halla bol.
54 · A woman scorned “…Also, what kind of person actually believes porn to be an example of real life anyway?”
104 · shakti “I know there are quite a few south indians on this thread – I have been lurking here for a while. One thing that really troubles me about Tamil movies is the way in which violence (sexual and physical) against women is depicted.”
122 · det
“Dialogue lecturing women on their proper attire, behavior and social order is extremely common in Tamil movies. Every movie of Rajinikanth has him making some statements about revealing western clothes on women (for example, his most recent one, Sivaji) or about how women should be humble, retiring, and obedient (Padayappa, for one, but you can pretty much pick any movie of his). “
Indian movies have perfected the art of making fantasies and more importantly, making the public believe in large parts of the fantasy. An economically disadvantaged kid watching a movie would obviously not think that the upper classes are breaking out in a song and a dance for every situation. But he/she WILL more often than not think that the sexual advances made by the hero is the standard norm of behavior among the upper classes (where he aspires to be). As a result, the gross and indecent behavior and thoughts depicted in movies become internalized in people. When reality does not offer them the belle to dance with while getting drunk, they start indulging in power plays – like the heinous assault being discussed here. Of all the conversations I’ve had with my friends about Indian movies, only a minuscule portion was about how real the situations depicted in the movies are / how the movie reflects reality.
Which gives me a nagging suspicion – do many Indians believe most of what they see in their movies?
:”I just provided the VT example to prove that sexual assault is a generic problem not an exclusively Indian one, as many lurkers here seem to suggest. This is what ticks me off.”
I totally agree with your point..
sexual assault is a generic problem.it’s not a third world phenomenon .
High moral ground…its lofty preachings hardly met in practice.
I digress here.
Indian society is sexually repressed. I’m sure most of us would agree to that. Most would think even hugging a member of the opposite sex is taboo.
The question is, how do we open up? Does one marry early to get laid? How would a person who’s
a) not too excited about arranged matches and
b) who doesn’t come in contact with many women/men who he/she can woo
get laid? Due to the highly skewed gender ratio in workplaces and at educational institutions, there are far too many men for every women.
Does one go to a prostitute? Should India legalize prostitution? That opens up a moral can of worms.
I meant “most” as in most Indians – not most of Sepia Mutiny writers,readers or stalkers (of which, incidentally, I am one. Haven’t commented before- hence this minor lack of clarity in my comments 🙂
Only if you are opposed to capitalistic acts between consenting adults.
:”How serious is a charge of eve-teasing? Other than the social stigma, will a conviction affect the culprits in any way? (any jail time?)”
eve-teasing is often not regarded as a serious issue. Even Mumbai’s Police Commissioner dismissed the incident,saying”such things can happen anywhere,anytime..I cant keep police behind every man”
The offender can be booked under S.354IPC which deals with ouraging the modesty of a woman .but the trial may drag on for years ,also the punishment can be as little as 2 weeks in prison or meager fine.at the maximum,it’d be 2 years imprisonment.
Oh yes, it is a point I wanted to make. Judging by the demographics of the victims, there is a high probability that someone in the family condoned the mob violence in the Gujarat riots. The point I wanted to make was not that these victims got a karmic retribution for a hypothetical scenario and my sympathy for the victims is not affected by the fact that someone in their family MAY have been sympathetic to Modi or his cohorts. (Reread that last sentence again before you fume at your keyboard about my judgemental character.) It was to caution people in the future to not be so blase about mob violence because one day it could come back to haunt you or your loved ones.
131 · jackal My female cousins in India have to put up with this crap (even in Bombay) and I find it intolerable and unacceptable. They simply would not face this on a day-to-day basis in most of the developed world and many other countries in the developing world as well. Someone earlier mentioned getting rid of the term ‘eve-teasing’, and I agree. It’s molestation/groping/sexual assault, period.
It’s simply not true that women don’t face these problems in the rest of the world on a day to day basis. For example South Korea and Japan have subway cars for Women only to avoid, groupers or chikans as they are called in Japan.
This happens every where in the world even in broad daylight and tons of people around. I vaguely recall a seeing a videotape of a couple in Central Park barely making it out of a mob of guys trying to take off her clothes when the video camera person panned around to a cop on a horse not 500 feet away.
There are bad people everywhere in the world, this isn’t a news story that solely reflects anything particular about India anymore than it would about the US or France for example.
shakti wrote:
I’m a man, but I’ve accompanied women on public transport, especially in Delhi, and believe me, I know what you’re talking about. It even makes my blood boil the few times when I notice it or am told about it, so I can’t imagine what women go through every day.
Our daughter is now thirteen, and visits back to India now have a certain anxiety factor for us because of what she might have to deal with. Of course, nowadays we mostly travel by car, so no need to push and shove in a train or bus, but that’s not a solution.
Perpetrators’ motives and upbringing are irrelevant, IMO. The root of the problem is that they are allowed to get away with it. The rest of society needs to be educated to see this behavior as unacceptable.
After all, lots of other behaviors are regulated effectively every day, even in India. Can you imagine anyone vandalizing goddesses in temples, or seriously hurting cows on the street, and getting away with it? No. The problem is that minor sexual assaults are not seen as unacceptable. This has got to change.
shakti on January 14, 2008 10:18 PM · Direct link · “Quoteâ€(?) I am a DBD, raised in Delhi, went to college in bombay. Whenever I think about moving back to india, the safety issue is the foremost in my mind. I just don’t know if I can deal with that shit again. Honestly, before I came to the US I could not imagine a place where such casual undeterred harrasment did not exist. I just imagined a place where it was less intense.
You don’t have to be drunk in India to get harassed. Every minute you are out in public – any crowded place, whether it is day or night, whether you are accompanied by men or not – your radar is on high alert, for that slight movement behind you, to your side, when some a**hole makes a move to rub against you or grope you. I know it sounds dramatic – but you just move that way, quick, alert, sidestepping the fellow who tries to walk straight into you. Every woman who was born and raised in India knows what I am talking about.
Wow. This rant is indeed the gold standard of stereotyping. With one broad stroke millions of desi men have been portrayed as outright animals who step out of their houses every morning with just one thing on their mind. The incidents that occur in India are despicable and a lot needs to be done- but there is no way in hell that I can reconcile to the view expressed above. Jeeez. This is the biggest piece of bunkum I have read in a long time.
A Mazda, I thought you considered such behavior characterless?
Oh, Pardesi Gori, how casually you dismiss your untiring efforts in your earlier avatars (I am sure you are aware of this concept too from talking to your Indian friends) disguised by other IP addresses! Although you have no hesitation in quoting or repeating yourself, it seems like.
Despite what the New Yorker believed, I guess canines can’t skulk easily even on the Internet.
There are bad people everywhere in the world, this isn’t a news story that solely reflects anything particular about India anymore than it would about the US or France for example.
Exactly my point. Such stories are great cannon fodder but the reality is that the same incident could well happen anywhere in the world…
However, what does need to change is legislation and punishment for the offenders in India. People should not be allowed to get away with such behavior.
If you look at the laws in relation to Adultery in India they very much regard women as property. Here is the link
With whom? as some one asked. Don’t Indian men want fair skinned, homely, convent educated, virgin brides? [rolls eyes]
145 · Rahul said
Sorry, Rahul – you’re barking up the wrong tree. Am a bona fide first time commenter. Perhaps you can check the IP address from which I’m posting?
I am not one of the site administrators and don’t have access to such information, but procuring IP addresses (maybe from all those “Indian friends” who work computer support?) has been no problem for Pardesi Gori in the past, so that’s not proof of anything. Unlike the thematic pug marks plastered front and center over the comments.
In any case, it is an interesting dilemma, isn’t it? PG is obviously smart and clearly derives great joy from defecating in public places, but can it modify its scent so as to not cause other commenters to wrinkle their noses? And will a PG that launders its style to eliminate any evidence of PG-ness still be a PG without its je ne sais quoi?
We’ll continue to stay tuned for future episodes! Same Batshit-time, Same Batshit-channel!
An effective strategy in curbing this type of behavior that I’ve noticed over the years is when women bring this issue up with their male friends. Street harassment, eve-teasing, and groping women in clubs is near the bottom of important issues for most men. I’d even say harassers and non-harassers alike are oblivious to this issue. As a guy who really cares about this, I’ve had only marginal success in getting friends and friends-of-friends to reconsider their actions. I’m guessing the lack of success is due in some part to gender politics but I’m not overly concerned with that angle. However, women who have boorish friends have had a lot of success in changing the ways of brutes when they (women) attack on all fronts. It takes time. It takes humiliating them. It takes ridicule. It takes unraveling the motivations. It takes observing a guy’s behavior in the company of no one and observing the same guy in the company of his peers.
The more a guy has that image of his lady friend scolding and shaming him seared into his memory, the less likely he’ll be a dick. In other words, a female friend or relative of a brute has a lot of leverage on this issue. To be sure, everyone has to play a part (guys, parents, peers, teachers, etc); but, the most effective voices are the female voices and the path must be cleared for those voices to be heard.