On Saturday, Subhash Chander went to the door of his daughter and son-in-law’s apartment, poured gas outside of it, and dropped his lighter. Inside, 22-year old Monika Rani, 36-year old Rajesh Arora and their three-year old son Vansh were sleeping. Monika was five months pregnant with this monster’s next grandchild.
All three perished of smoke/soot inhalation and carbon-monoxide poisoning.
Their charred bodies were recovered later; little Vansh was found in the hallway, I wonder if he woke up, scared from the blaze and ran for her. Three innocent people, dead. Several dozen more, most of whom were new immigrants from India, homeless, but thankfully, alive. And for what?
A cultural slight?
Arora was from a “lower caste” than Subhash Chander, whose actions obviously bring glory to his lofty peers. Chander did not approve of his son-in-law and there are conflicting reports of Arora marrying without the man’s permission. Even if such things are true, incinerating three innocent people while selfishly, thoughtlessly threatening the lives of so many others takes a special kind of psychopath.
Subhash Chander, 57, told police that he resented the couple for what he considered a “cultural slight” — that his daughter Monika Rani, 22, had married a man from a lower caste and done so without his consent, according to a court document.
Chander and his son-in-law had a strained relationship throughout his marriage to Rani, which lasted a little more than three years, said First Assistant Cook County State’s Atty. Robert Milan.
“Apparently there’s been trouble going on between the two of them for years,” Milan said. “It’s pretty clear from the defendant’s own statements and other evidence that we have that he did not like his son-in-law at all.”
Chander was charged Monday night with three counts of first-degree murder, one count of intentional homicide of an unborn child and one count of aggravated arson. Judge Martin E. McDonough ordered him held without bail Tuesday during a hearing in Markham. [Chicago Tribune]
Chander’s story is that there was a shoving match with his son-in-law, while he was holding a container of gas. Some of it “splashed” around inadvertently and then…
Chander told police that he became “upset and angry” and pulled a lighter from his pocket and set the carpet on fire, according to a court record. [Chicago Tribune]
Because that explanation somehow makes this situation better? Is setting fire to a carpet a harmless way to register your discontent? Beyond that stupidity, there is this curious fact:
…prosecutors said the victims may have been asleep. All other residents of the apartment building were able to escape, Milan said.
It took firefighters three hours to extinguish the blaze, which gutted the 36-unit Le Claire Station Apartments. [CNN]
Incidentally, these murders occurred in Cook County, which is also where officials spent a quarter of a million dollars looking for flakey and apparently oblivious-to-leaving-a-note Anu Solanki. Enough about her, though– there is a far uglier coincidence to consider:
The incident was the third case in five months in which fire was used during a domestic dispute involving an Indian family in the Chicago suburbs.
In November, authorities said a 34-year-old Glendale Heights father set fire to his two young sons. The three survived, though the boys remain in critical condition. In August, a 32-year-old Naperville mother set her house on fire, killing herself and her two children.
Both cases involved couples who had moved recently from India and had troubled marriages. [Chicago Tribune]
There is conflicting information regarding the family dynamics, from friends of the couple:
A friend, Brijesh Patel, 32, recalled attending the couple’s wedding four years ago and noticing Rani’s family.
Patel said he spoke with Rani’s husband about five months ago and was unaware that he was having problems with Chander.
“He was happy with the way things were going,” Patel said. [Chicago Tribune]
But (the alleged motive) made little sense to Sandeep Kaur, who was good friends with Rani and her husband. Kaur said Tuesday that before Rani got married in 2002 at a Chicago area Hindu temple, Chander called the prospective groom’s parents in India to offer his approval for the union. Kaur said she thought Rani and her husband came from the same elite Indian caste. In Hindu Indian culture, it’s common for families to seek to match a child with someone of the same caste or social order, experts say. [Sun Times]
Chander’s sister also disputed the caste angle:
Kamla Devi told WBBM-AM that her brother is innocent. She said that relatives approved of the marriage and that the caste system was not a consideration for her family in India, nor is it a consideration now in the United States.
“There was no family problem. There was nothing going on. Absolutely nothing,” Devi said.
Devi told the radio station that the family is from Chandigarh in northern India. [CNN]
If “absolutely nothing” was wrong, why did he burn them to death? And how cold is this?
After the fire was started, Chander told police that he went back to his apartment across the street and placed the remaining gasoline in a trash bin. He did not report the fire, nor did he call his daughter to make sure she and her family were safe, Milan said. [Chicago Tribune]
How they found him:
Milan said a gas station attendant identified Chander in a lineup, and that officers recovered the plastic pharmaceutical jug that held the gas and had a prescription label with Chander’s name on it.
About two hours before the blaze, Chander purchased gasoline from a Citgo station less than a mile away, prosecutors said. Chander gave the attendant $5 but only filled up $3.24 in gas before leaving the station with the container and walking down the street, said Terrill Starks, the station attendant.
“That’s when I thought there was something suspicious about him,” Starks said. “Why would he forget his change?” [Chicago Tribune]
…………………………………….
News Tab: Condekedar
Tip Line: Rani, Dipti, Deena
Thanks, all.
This stuff happens in all socioeconomic levels…I have seen horrible stuff happen with very wealthy, educated desi families – nothing as horrible, but still verbal and physical abuse. And who can forget the crazy millionaire muttontowners?
This is what I was trying to quote above. Bah.
ANNA @ 41
oops, sorry in my last post I meant to say “so called father” not “so called killer” – he is a mass murderer by law.
This is one of many examples (although this is a very severe example) of why I hate the caste system.
Chandigarh is not apart of Punjab.
Pishposh, you quoted perfectly. 😉
54 · ShallowThinker said
Wot? I’ve never been North of Bangalore. Please to forgive.
Well, there’s my “something new” learned for today. Thank you. 🙂 I’ve always heard people talk about it as if it were in Punjab, now I know.
47 · BlackCat said
How could any desi, conservative or liberal or communist or whatever, advocate something as horrifying as setting someone on fire? If this man isn’t put in prison, he should go to a mental health facility.
Thanks Anna for the update. You raise a valid point, to him and some others like him, their actions may seem rational and what they really needed is a mental health professional, not just a chat with a neighbor.
Most of the people on SM don’t understand the language crazy (sorry for using a pejorative but it seems apt), so this maybe the wrong group to ask, but somewhere along his thought process I’m hoping someone could have made an impact on what he was doing. This maybe a naive view. My thought is if the irrational feelings can be tempered, this event could have been prevented. And if it can be prevented, it doesn’t have to happen again.
The reason I knew that is because in college I knew a couple of hardcore Punjabi people would use that as one of the reasons to seperate from India.
See!! Punjabi people think of other things besides domesticating their women.
yeap thats a sign of a messed up indian..forgot his change
My dear, everyone on SM (lurkers too!) understands crazy. Trust me. This site is chock full o’ pejorative comments, which is probably why it is frequented by refugee-all stars of dyslogistic families. Seeking out the familiar etc. 😉
This is never the wrong group to ask. Ask me, ask me, ask me…(I would have typed “Ask us” thrice but those aren’t the Smiths lyrics).
I hear you and no, it’s not naive, IMO. It’s exactly right. However, if the impact that someone could have made is something like, “seek help”, that won’t accomplish a thing until we collectively accept that there is nothing wrong with doing so– that if anything, it is wrong not to. I’ve seen this first-hand and it is heart-breaking. Person slowly falls apart. Loving, concerned spouse or sibling intervenes and tries to suggest help. Person lashes out with “How dare you look down on me! Who are you to call me crazy! Do you know what kind of people go to such doctors?” And then something awful happens. 🙁
They have to be willing to allow the tempering. 🙁 I pray that people see these horrific incidents as a wake-up call to not look the other way, to intervene and to do so aggressively if lives are at stake.
I was at Burger King the other day and the guy forgot my 3 cents change and he asked me if I wanted it because he would have to have gotten the manager to open the register and a part of my brain actually said “Why are you wasting money, get it back”, then my noraml brain took over and said “No, you dont need that”
setting folks on fire is not uncommon in the desh – douse some petrol on the person and boom – pretty horrific ifyou watch it in real life. Most common medium for Dowry deaths is ‘stove explosion’ ie douse with kerosene and set on fire. Also – self immolation is sometimes used to express protest / grief. Possibly one reason for using fire in this instance was the ease of acquisition. Working class violence is standard around the world – nothing specific about desis. If you are not ready to use your fists in a working class neighbourhood you are toast.
56 · A N N A said
Like the VP is not part of the executive branch or Congress…..
Anna, thanks for the thoughtful response, and I hope people do intervene and act aggressively.
Additionally, from here on out, I will not hesitate to use pejoratives on this site. 😉
Shallow Thinker,
You were clearly not in your right mind at The House of the Whopper. Do you know what you could have done with those three cents????? You could have saved that money but if you were intent on wasting your money, why that’s only ninety-seven cents away from purchasing something at the dollar store.
BTW, my grandfather and my puppardji (not to mention some older maps) would disagree with Wiki and you about Chandigardh not being part of Punjab but I’m punjabi too so I’m leaving this one alone. Are we sure they’re really from Chandigarh and not just visiting from Gujarat. Just saying…
Not only has there been a recent spate of sensationalistic crimes in the Chicago area involving Indians, we have also been making our mark in political corruption in Illinois as well. Our ne’er do well governor, Rod Blagovich, is carrying forward the proud Illinois tradition of “Pay to play” politics, and many of the ones doing the paying are Indian. They make donations to his campaign, and they get cushy state contracts.
As for Subhash Chander, let him serve his sentence in the burnt-out apartment building.
63 · melbourne desi said
That doesn’t justify it. God help this family and let’s hope this man is locked up for a very long time.
#30:ShallowThinker on January 2, 2008 03:19 PM
I am sad to say that I am embarrassed of being a Indian in Chicago these days. Cant I read the damn paper without these stories about Indians splashed all over the cover of newspapers?
If this is problematic, think of the problems law abiding Af Ams must experience. The Af Am violent crime rate is 30-40x the Asian rate. People differ. And given the right conditions, they can snap and do really stupid things. Some Indians are going to do real stupid, violent things. Its as inevitable as traffic accidents or other stats in the aggregate.
—
I hate old Indian people with a passion! If your not my parents and your over 50 and Indian I most likely dont like you.
I hope you realize how stupid this expression is. There are many 50+ lurkers and contributors on this blog. I’ll soon be in this group.
—
Maybe that was over the top, but how many old Indian people have you met and liked them? Very few in my experiences.
This tells us a lot about you. Your nick is well chosen. There are many, many very decent older Indian folks with tons of experience, smarts, and wisdom (the like of which few of the younger folks on this blog are likely to have). Perhaps its too much to expect older folks who didnt have the education that you have had to have the right amount of linguistic facility and cultural sophistication to put you at ease.
Moron.
Please! Format your point-by-point rebuttals correctly! Otherwise it sounds like you’re trying to kick your own ass.
Other immigrants go thru the same thing, but why 3 incidents in a year involving desis burning other desis within 50 miles of each other? One reason being discussed in the local community: They’re copycat crimes.
But as a Chicago desi since the 70’s, I’m completely flummoxed by the amount of negative media coverage of desis in the Chicago media in the past year. It started with the Mahajans (KXB’s post) and HOPEFULLY ends with Subhash Chander.
And in regards to the Panju domestic violence stereotypes, anyone remember Bhaji on the Beach?
Good lord, wtf is wrong with this man? His ‘I got angry and dropped my lighter on the carpet’ excuse seems to be an attempt to get charged with manslaughter instead of murder (which shows he knows he did something wrong), but the fact that he bought gasoline in advance and had the time during his alleged brawl with his son-in-law to splash gasoline all over the place shows that it was pre-meditated (even if done in a fit of insanity). Bringing up caste also seems to be an attempt to excuse his actions because he seems to be desperately grasping at straws and hoping that other people in America might condone his actions because of this justification (eyy bhagvan I hope the defense doesn’t try to pull some sort of ‘cultural difference’ bullshit, that’s an insult to all of us).
I also grew up in this ‘type’ of community, and I don’t think anyone I know from there would attempt to justify this man’s actions. They may justify disowning a child, passive-aggressive abuse, but not KILLING your own child and grandchildren. (BTW, is it common for prosecutors to charge for the death of an ‘unborn child’?) This behavior is nowhere near the norm or close to being accepted as the norm. I find the phrasing of the suggestion of ‘educating the community that this is wrong’ a little patronizing, but I understand where it’s coming from. I think the key is what other people have been getting at- that seeking help for mental illness is seriously stigmatized in desi communities. (The most liberal desi 1st gen people I know on this issue are psychiatrists, but that shouldn’t be too surprising). I think people know that this is wrong, but don’t quite know how to reach out because of that stigma, and will just deny, deny, deny that there is a problem in the first place.
What happened to the story about the man who killed his daughters? Geez, desis are going crazy all over the place.
Depends on your universe, innit? 🙂
We’re a larger % of the desi diaspora in the U.S. I think if you read the news you’ll find a lot of stories re: Gujaratis also, which is due in no small part to their large market share of the desi subpop. All that said, it doesn’t always come back to Punjabis!
Modern Chandigarh (given that it’s not that old) is not part of Punjab the way Washington, D.C. is not part of Maryland or Virginia. It’s just an administrative definition technicality. Said technicality doesn’t mean folks don’t have cultural roots that say otherwise, especially when you account for the vast number of Punjabis in Chandigarh, the trilingual road signs, the historic territoriality (and the fact that Haryana used to be part of Punjab), and that at some point Chandigarh is supposed to be ceded back into Punjab (only), I think it’s safe to say there’s a possible Punjabi connection. Although, I suppose we could be really sneaky and just say he’s Haryavani.
Also, considering that commenters here have basically made statements along the lines of ‘I don’t like older desis, they’re stupid,’ I don’t see how the local community can reach out in this regard, if the ‘well-knowing’ subset has this attitude toward the people who need to be ‘educated’? Where’s all the glorious South Asian organizing?
Temporarily pulled until we have confirmation that the man really is desi.
nala, I’m with you re: “working class” immigrant communities (I couldn’t respond because my head popped off)
Amen, sister. Oh, with respect to “unborn children,” it depends on the state, but many do charge for it. It’s actually a tricky point in reproductive law (i.e. around choice) because to acknowledge the death of an unborn child as criminal indicates that it is alive, and thus can be considered a person who can be murdered. See how it could get tricky? At any rate, there’s quite a few states who still charge for it in homicide cases but have very open abortion laws.
Interesting hypothesis, one that had not occurred to me. I did think that it was possible he may have used a caste-based term as an epithet rather than a descriptor, but your hypothesis is more believable.
Even if the defense dances the cultural difference dance, it wouldn’t affect his conviction prospects on the grounds of his actions being inexcusable. Had he claimed self defense, then he could have made enough of an illogical mess to get acquitted. Robert Durst was acquitted of dismembering his neighbor after he pleaded self defense.
pingpong– Robert Durst is also really really rich. That affects outcomes somewhat. 🙂
True, that. I’ll always remember the headline after he was acquitted: “Where’s the Head?”.
When I first read this story over the weekend, the thing that I found most galling was the extent of the cold heartedness that could let a man walk away after knowing that his pregnant daughter might be in flames due to his act. And I have seen not the slightest indication of remorse in any of the stories about this man.
As for the “casteism as defence”, the interplay of cultural relativism, assimilation, and integration is fascinating. While there are some aspects of “ethnic cultures” such as casteism, dowry, or wife-beating that are clearly beyond the pale and should have no place in a civilization that claims to adhere to basic values of human rights, there are many others where the answer is not so clear cut and will probably be a source of tensions for centuries to come.
And this is not “working class violence”, sure thresholds for fisticuffs might be lower because of the million frustrations that are part of a hand-to-mouth existence, but I do not think the unwashed poor believe en masse that this kind of extreme behavior is business as usual.
I thought Chandigarh was considered it’s own district, like Washington D.C.
I also wonder how media is involved in hyping up stories of immigrants…
I live in Vancouver, and yes there is definately a problem within the community when it comes to gang violence or violence against women. I am in no-way condoning any of it. But what I have noticed is the way media, newspapers particularly, splash the front pages with bold faced-large fonts screaming “Gang-war” or something like that. What is obvious to anyone who lives here is that when they say Indo-Canadian gang war – it involves people from all backgrounds/cultures. Only the HA are culturally exclusive gang!
So while, yes, there may have been several fire related violence within the larger South Asian community and yes it is a problem and yes we need to do something and yes we need to understand what is going on…how much of the hype is created by media? I am obviously not in Chicago so I dont know – anyone?
I thought Chandigarh was considered it’s own district, like Washington D.C.
Casteism in it’s “good form” is really just “culturalism”. Different castes and subcastes have different cultural traits – cuisine, music, dance, marriage customs etc, that are part of culture. Caste discrimination is something else entirely, it is prejudice, something that needs to be wiped out. However, when it comes to marriage, we find that desis who have no caste (Christians, etc), or who don’t know or care about their caste, still will limit their marriage choices to prospects of the same religion and/or region of India. So if that is understood and accomodated by modern, liberal desis, I don’t see the difference in someone preferring to marry someone of their own caste by choice, why would such “casteism” or culturalism be deemed any less?
The Chicago media are equal-opportunity hype-ers, who found a bonanza among the desis. Lets just be glad that gun ownership is not popular in the community. Okay, I know, you wont get change out of a fiver when you buy a gun….
There is a need for something positive to come out of this, perhaps a community awareness campaign about mental health services available, using desi MDs to deliver the message?
Hmmm…
Sounds plausible but I think that the murderer would have to have a fairly sophisticated understanding of the American legal system to plan out a deception like this.
Maybe a therapy culture needs to be introduced into this community.
The man obviously had to be pagal to do this sort of thing. It’s not a normal reaction for anybody, from any culture, no matter how much culture shock they are experiencing.
OK. Just read the comments where the above suggestion was already addressed.
Maybe it could be made just as desirable in our community for our sons and daughters to become shrinks, therapists, counselors, etc, as other types of doctors, engineers, and ibankers. That might help in alleviating the stigma associated with needed therapy.
At the risk of sounding redundant, this is the third incident in less than 6mo involving desis in this area. I’m not even talking about anu solanki. There was an incident where a father doused his own kids and another one involving a mother dousing herself as well as her kids. I think the model minority myth lasted as long as we stayed under a critical mass. I think our population is now hitting a critical mass where we are likely to get into the news for wrong as well as right reasons.
chitowndesi, unfortunately I think you have hit the nail on the head.
Grrr. I was not justifying anything. Just stated what happens in the Desh with regard to deaths caused by fire.
I’m sorry, I don’t understand the worry about how this may upset our ‘image,’ shouldn’t we be worrying more about the conditions that lead to these incidents in the first place, and try to gauge how widespread they are and try to engage with those problems?
I don’t think so. There are examples of this already, e.g. Rahul linked above a story of an immigrant woman in Germany who was not allowed to divorce her physically abusive husband because of ‘religious differences.’ Hopefully that particular strain of the multicultural virus won’t spread to the U.S. though.
People seem interested in ascertaining the ethnic background of this guy for the sole purpose of distancing themselves from him…
Those crazy violent Punjabis… we civilized Bengalis/Gujjus/Mallus/Tamils etc aren’t like that at all.
Sadly this seems to be common in comments on other stories as well. In a story about Tamils, Punjabis will be quick to jump in and seek to differentiate themselves throwing in references to skin color for good measure. If he was Muslim, Christian or Sikh all of this would have been about religion rather than ethnicity.
I concede that that ethno-religious background can provide valuable insight into the nature of the crime and highlight possible solutions to prevent future crimes of that nature. But reading comments where the commentators seem to have a rabid need to pin down the act on a particular desi sub-group in order to maintain self-perceived notions of the superiority of ones own sub-group is depressing on many different levels.
Planning out a murder and false motive (which doesn’t have much in the way of legal precedent in the US) from the beginning is very different than an attorney finding the client a legal loophole.
I hope you realize that on this thread, I was kidding because I find such separation just as useless as you do. I wish I didn’t have to be so paranoid, but after four years of being accused of all manner of bullshit, I am.
I wasn’t saying that he planned it with the intent of using that excuse in mind, only that it could be one of the excuses he gave when he was later being questioned because he thought it might earn him more ‘sympathy.’
Very, very sad…
Thinking more about what was going on in this twisted tale, anyone else find the 14 year age difference between the husband and wife interesting? And the fact that the wife was probably 18-19 when she got married and had their son? Maybe 3 years ago there was an element of saving face… which was all forgotten when Chander monser went on the loose. How sad… maybe the fact that all of these people lived in a very insulated Indian community also tipped things further in a mentally unstable person who felt that his izzat (honor) had been spoilt… 3 years late but whatever.
91 · eng said
Eng, while I agree with the general sentiment of your post above, I did not see an example in this thread of where people were trying to distance themselves from the grandfather in question. Rather, there are instances of where people, myself included, are making reference to Mr. Chander’s ethnic origin with tongue firmly implanted in cheek. In sum, it was an attempt at humor in response to a dark story. While I realize tone, maybe hard to hear from the printed word, I thought it fairly obvious.
81 Fijova: I don’t think the Chicago media is focusing on the Indian community at all. Anyone with a passing knowledge of the news in Chicagoland (like a newspaper editor) would quickly make a connection that in a span of a few months, three parents all set their kids ablaze, and that all three parents were Indian immigrants. There haven’t been any other “kids on fire” stories in Chicago other than in the Indian community.
Someone mentioned that gun ownership amongst Indian-American is low, and thank god for that. I grew up in a heavily Indian suburb of Chicago and vividly remember a gun-related Indian horror story in 1992 occurring just one block from my house: after a domestic disturbance (note the pattern), the mother of a family shot her son (while he was sleeping) and then shot her husband. He somehow managed to make it outside the house and this crazed woman ran after him (in a sari, amazingly enough) and kept shooting him. She then shot herself. The son survived, luckily, but that incident was so weird that I remember kids talking about it years afterwards. The Indian community in the west suburbs of Chicago is definitely not perceived as “model” in any regard. Our karma points went down the drain at least fifteen years ago.
This whole thing about being a ‘model minority’ and worrying about the ‘image’ of the Indian community being spoiled needs to get in the real world. In the real world horrible things happen. In the real world humanity runs from the gentle and noble and hard working to the lazy, the feckless, the nasty and the evil. Do you think, raised in your comforting myths of Indian immunity to horror and darkness, that Indians receive a goodness serum when they arrive in America and don’t commit crimes, that Indians will somehow bypass the reality of a certain percentage of humanity commiting crime, being violent, being murderers? In your perfumed world it’s time for a wake up call.
If you’re worried about being stigmatised because of the actions of a minority of individuals you’re probably right, there will be certain amount of stigmatisation amongst some. It’s been happening to black people and other minority groups for decades, welcome to the club, in which generalities are made with impunity and extremities are described as normative and horrors are sensationalised. Except, irony of ironies, many (or most) of those living in the perfumed ‘model minority’ bubble have probably been perpetuating the same generalities and stereotypes of other groups themselves.
The world is complex and contains darkness. Come to terms with this.
97 · Condekedar said
The pattern is the same in the overwhelming number of violent incidences and murder, of any ethnic group: domestic disputes and arguments and tensions within families.
Bobby,
While it’s certainly true the world can be a dark place, bad things happen to good people, and there really are monsters in the world, don’t you think some purpose is served by a desi community such as this one expressing its public condemnation of this event, or at least a community saying “great, another thing for whitey to use against us”. While some in the community may choose to bewail the loss of its model minority image, doesn’t the public aspiration to be that model assist others who are considering dark acts in deciding what route to choose. Whether it be to commit robbery, beat, steal, lie or burn based on hate, an option is presented that there is a different course that can be followed. I didn’t perceive your comments to say that you are against having this type of discourse but by saying the “world is dark, just deal with it” leaves little room for people to want to change or for others in this community to advise, guide or warn others not to commit acts that are against the norms of the group.
Further, if you read past posts, you’ll see how aware the perfumed masses are regarding violence and venality. It’s unfortunately a part of the culture that was left behind in our native lands and is with us now. No one suggests that desi’s do not carry it with them. That violence is why some of us left our land of origin. You don’t need to remind these people that the world is dark. Many of them have experienced it. You might know that if you’d take the time to stop preaching your intellectual superiority to the perfumed masses.