On Saturday, Subhash Chander went to the door of his daughter and son-in-law’s apartment, poured gas outside of it, and dropped his lighter. Inside, 22-year old Monika Rani, 36-year old Rajesh Arora and their three-year old son Vansh were sleeping. Monika was five months pregnant with this monster’s next grandchild.
All three perished of smoke/soot inhalation and carbon-monoxide poisoning.
Their charred bodies were recovered later; little Vansh was found in the hallway, I wonder if he woke up, scared from the blaze and ran for her. Three innocent people, dead. Several dozen more, most of whom were new immigrants from India, homeless, but thankfully, alive. And for what?
A cultural slight?
Arora was from a “lower caste” than Subhash Chander, whose actions obviously bring glory to his lofty peers. Chander did not approve of his son-in-law and there are conflicting reports of Arora marrying without the man’s permission. Even if such things are true, incinerating three innocent people while selfishly, thoughtlessly threatening the lives of so many others takes a special kind of psychopath.
Subhash Chander, 57, told police that he resented the couple for what he considered a “cultural slight” — that his daughter Monika Rani, 22, had married a man from a lower caste and done so without his consent, according to a court document.
Chander and his son-in-law had a strained relationship throughout his marriage to Rani, which lasted a little more than three years, said First Assistant Cook County State’s Atty. Robert Milan.
“Apparently there’s been trouble going on between the two of them for years,” Milan said. “It’s pretty clear from the defendant’s own statements and other evidence that we have that he did not like his son-in-law at all.”
Chander was charged Monday night with three counts of first-degree murder, one count of intentional homicide of an unborn child and one count of aggravated arson. Judge Martin E. McDonough ordered him held without bail Tuesday during a hearing in Markham. [Chicago Tribune]
Chander’s story is that there was a shoving match with his son-in-law, while he was holding a container of gas. Some of it “splashed” around inadvertently and then…
Chander told police that he became “upset and angry” and pulled a lighter from his pocket and set the carpet on fire, according to a court record. [Chicago Tribune]
Because that explanation somehow makes this situation better? Is setting fire to a carpet a harmless way to register your discontent? Beyond that stupidity, there is this curious fact:
…prosecutors said the victims may have been asleep. All other residents of the apartment building were able to escape, Milan said.
It took firefighters three hours to extinguish the blaze, which gutted the 36-unit Le Claire Station Apartments. [CNN]
Incidentally, these murders occurred in Cook County, which is also where officials spent a quarter of a million dollars looking for flakey and apparently oblivious-to-leaving-a-note Anu Solanki. Enough about her, though– there is a far uglier coincidence to consider:
The incident was the third case in five months in which fire was used during a domestic dispute involving an Indian family in the Chicago suburbs.
In November, authorities said a 34-year-old Glendale Heights father set fire to his two young sons. The three survived, though the boys remain in critical condition. In August, a 32-year-old Naperville mother set her house on fire, killing herself and her two children.
Both cases involved couples who had moved recently from India and had troubled marriages. [Chicago Tribune]
There is conflicting information regarding the family dynamics, from friends of the couple:
A friend, Brijesh Patel, 32, recalled attending the couple’s wedding four years ago and noticing Rani’s family.
Patel said he spoke with Rani’s husband about five months ago and was unaware that he was having problems with Chander.
“He was happy with the way things were going,” Patel said. [Chicago Tribune]
But (the alleged motive) made little sense to Sandeep Kaur, who was good friends with Rani and her husband. Kaur said Tuesday that before Rani got married in 2002 at a Chicago area Hindu temple, Chander called the prospective groom’s parents in India to offer his approval for the union. Kaur said she thought Rani and her husband came from the same elite Indian caste. In Hindu Indian culture, it’s common for families to seek to match a child with someone of the same caste or social order, experts say. [Sun Times]
Chander’s sister also disputed the caste angle:
Kamla Devi told WBBM-AM that her brother is innocent. She said that relatives approved of the marriage and that the caste system was not a consideration for her family in India, nor is it a consideration now in the United States.
“There was no family problem. There was nothing going on. Absolutely nothing,” Devi said.
Devi told the radio station that the family is from Chandigarh in northern India. [CNN]
If “absolutely nothing” was wrong, why did he burn them to death? And how cold is this?
After the fire was started, Chander told police that he went back to his apartment across the street and placed the remaining gasoline in a trash bin. He did not report the fire, nor did he call his daughter to make sure she and her family were safe, Milan said. [Chicago Tribune]
How they found him:
Milan said a gas station attendant identified Chander in a lineup, and that officers recovered the plastic pharmaceutical jug that held the gas and had a prescription label with Chander’s name on it.
About two hours before the blaze, Chander purchased gasoline from a Citgo station less than a mile away, prosecutors said. Chander gave the attendant $5 but only filled up $3.24 in gas before leaving the station with the container and walking down the street, said Terrill Starks, the station attendant.
“That’s when I thought there was something suspicious about him,” Starks said. “Why would he forget his change?” [Chicago Tribune]
…………………………………….
News Tab: Condekedar
Tip Line: Rani, Dipti, Deena
Thanks, all.
While it’s certainly true the world can be a dark place, bad things happen to good people, and there really are monsters in the world, don’t you think some purpose is served by a desi community such as this one expressing its public condemnation of this event, or at least a community saying “great, another thing for whitey to use against us”.
I think we should be less concerned about what “whitey” is thinking (sorry, that’s bad terminology IMO) and more concerned with why this happened, why mental illness is such a stigma in our society and why unreasonable parents think they can control their kids in this manner and kill them when they fail to meet their expectations.
It’s been happening in Europe for years (and not only with the Indian community – also the Somali, Morocccan, Kurdish, etc). There have been numerous Fadime Sahindals in England, France, Northern Europe…now it’s starting to happen in the States. How will we respond to resolving this? How will we help American society understand the nuances of these situations and how to help kids/young adults who are trying to break free but feel threatened? How do we cultivate a greater crop of counselors trained in intercultural issues, not only for the individual, but also for the family? These are more important questions than bemoaning the loss of a perceived model minority status.
Campmuir,
“Whitey” was not a term I should have used. A less colloquial and offensive word would have been appropriate.
It’s not really that remarkable, is it? People are not good at monitoring their own internal states. Everyone thinks they’re sane, just like everyone thinks they have an amazing sense of humor. It’s very difficult to get an accurate perspective on yourself, and doubly so if you have no practice at it. This is not an immigrant issue so much as an issue with humanity in general. Simply put, there was no counterbalancing voice in his head going, “Hey guy. What the fuck are you doing? Are you seriously going to light the apartment on fire and walk off? Because…well…hang on here. That’s batshit insane.”
The notion of suggesting that this guy “seek help” seems kind of absurd to me (not that you did in your comment) because in all likelihood, he wouldn’t have. That’s because the suggestion that he needed help would have seemed ridiculous to this guy. Now, faced with condemnation from the media, the residents of his building, and presumably his community and family, he’s going to have difficulty denying the tenor and timbre of his thinking. So instead he comes up with:
“I was carrying gasoline and spilled it on the carpet. He shoved me and I dropped or threw the lighter out of anger at his disrespect.”
That’s a retrospective storytelling, a revisionist history told not for the benefit of his audience, but for his own sanity. In that context, he can envision the individual actions (“I was carrying gas. I was angry, so I threw the lighter”) as understandable and even defensible, so that’s what he must have done.
Then there’s this notion, which is at odds with the above and therefore ironically demonstrates his sanity:
“He was of a different caste.”
That’s another way of saying, “it was a cultural slight that you authorities couldn’t understand, and which would exonerate me if you understood it, but you don’t.” He’s sane enough to be scared to death for his own skin, and is grasping (vainly) at any defense he can. Foresight is not his strong point, clearly.
The sheer amount of dissonance coming off the guy just through the articles and quotes is disturbing and uncomfortable to read. His personal morality is akin to that of a very young child.
Question for psychologists/public health people: Do the three burning incidents in 6 mos qualify as an epidemic? There has got to be something going on with wider implications for this to have occurred with such frequency in such a relatively small population. Even if they are copycat crimes, these are all people who had no outlet for their unhappiness and frustration, and there are undoubtedly more people who need help.
Why? Is anyone suggesting that anyone in the Indian community is not horrified by this event? So why should anyone aspire to express horror over an atrocity like this? It goes without saying that everyone is horrified by it, right? That suggests collective culpability or fear of of others asserting collective taint. The idea that anyone should have to condemn what is so evidently an evil act is asinine. Does this burden fall on all white people whenever something terrible is carried out by a white murderer? Or is it only minorities cringing in fear of their ‘reputation’ that think like this?
I think quite a few do need to be reminded of it. You can see it in those who try to make out that Indians should now make some kind of public statement of horror as if some stigmata is arising. For those who are prejudiced enough to think that way, they’ll feel it anyway. Isn’t that much that can be done about it.It’s got nothing to do with intellectual superiority.
101 · campmuir said
Well I’ll agree with that.
101 · campmuir said
Although I don’t know where the mental illness angle is definitively inserted here. Some people just do things because they’re evil and callous or have depraved personal morality. A certain set of circumstances triggers passions or dormant hatreds and they flip. Most killings aren’t commited by mentally ill people.
Or, he could be completely amoral and have no regret about his actions. Honor killings are coming close to home, it seems like.
Bobby,
Why? Is anyone suggesting that anyone in the Indian community is not horrified by this event? I am. Obviously, this deviant, felt that he might have some support in some quarters by throwing caste into it. You’ve acknowledged that the Indian community needs to be reminded that the world is dark. Maybe they need to be reminded that this is a horrific event, maybe those who publicly bemoan it, quietly understand it. Maybe that’s a view darker than you care to believe. Is that any less asinine than reminding people who have seen violence that the world is dark?
As for a public display of horror, when non-brown people are polled on fantastic crimes they have the same condemnation as this Indian community to crime. It’s not the brown man’s burden to publicly decry what another brown man does. It’s a human imperative that all people take the opportunity to decry foul acts so that no one thinks the act is rational.
I feel many of the cultural “problems” can be solved if the elderly desi folks learn to stop being emotionally and financially dependent on their children and vice versa at a much earlier age. And Indians in general should learn to be less rigid, more receptive to hear criticisms of their “ways” and “thinking” and also learn to express their grievances in a more refined and polished way. If educated people don’t learn this then it is wasted education.
Bobby, what is your definition of mental illness? Because what you described to me is someone who is mentally ill.
Yeah sure. The Indian community in Chicago are so stupid and such moral ingrates that they cannot fathom that murdering people is an horrific event and have to be reminded of it. As for horrific murders, well I ‘understand’ why a simpleton shoots dead someone over a drug deal gone wrong, I ‘understand’ why a jealous wife stabs her cheating husband in the heart, I ‘understand’ why a posturing self-pitying teenage moron shoots ten of his high school mates dead. I don’t need to register my horror in a politicised breast beating way in order to disassociate myself from it.
Sure, except you’re suggesting some kind of collective and public wailing contest or chest thumping and flagellation like shias in a mohurram procession to make sure everyone gets the message that, like, Indians really condemn this crime. The usual gestures will be made, some worthy local ‘community leader’ probably a middle aged man from the commitee of the local mandir will express their shock on TV News, that’s the burden of being a minority I suppose, but it’s still asinine.
111 · vaishnavi said
Really? You mean clinical mental illness is like that? Most murders are triggered by people unable to control their urge to violence and immorality. That’s an extreme state of violent but lucid behaviour. But it’s not mental illness.
110 · Bridget Jones said
I agree with that in general. But most of us have experience of this phenomenon, either in our own families, or through people we know socially, our friends or acquaintances. For it’s own sake it has to be changed, especially amongst us in the diaspora. But that’s such a wide and vivid canvas of experience and should be talked about for its own sake.
Bobby,
I sense a lot of frustration in your posts. I get it – I’m frustrated and angry too. What a terrible way to start 2008. However, we can’t lump all of desi society into this bucket. I think the attempts to classify the castes and bemoan the loss of model minority status are quite off-topic, but something does need to be said for the idea that we have to take a stand and say, “not all desis think like this”. because they don’t. maybe not a majority, but a significant percentage. Part of that means we have to admit to the bad parts of desi mentality and identify this for what is is – a honor killing. yes, an ugly word but it is an ugly story.
-cm
One can be mentally ill yet lucid at the same time… Extreme violent tendencies are a mental illness, even if it is not a specific clinical disorder. While I’m not saying that this man suffers from such-and-such illness, it is clear to me that he suffered from something that would propel to do such an act. Perhaps we have different viewpoints on the definition of mental illness? I was a biopsych major in school and one of the first things I learned is that there is a lot more to be learned about the mind.
Bobby,
Who’s asking for a public breast beating? Have you heard of honor killings? Have you heard about the 3 other fire attacks (mentioned upthread)that occurred previously in the Chicago area? Obviously some in the Chicago area have accepted this as a norm. Enough so this individual felt he had some basis for his attack. Your original post suggested a fatalistic “the world is dark, indians are just as evil as the rest of the world so don’t be shocked over this event and just deal.” The problem with that as I alluded to earlier, is that it essentially asks the community to sigh and resign itself that bad things will happen. I’m sorry that’s just not good enough. Why can’t the members of this community bemoan that act on this forum to influence others. The idea floated here in this forum regarding more mental health professionals in the community would seem to run counter your thought that the community just resign itself to a dark world. I also believe that the values and norms of the group do influence what some of their members choose to do. So if the public breast beating that you seem to bemoan on this site, influences someone to advise others not to act based on caste hatred or commit foul acts, I say that’s a burden that has to be taken.
He’s a good candidate for what the CIA termed “maximal demotion”
eng, I fully agree with your point (nala and I discussed it earlier this week). I’m sorry if we were unclear in our comments — we were being facetious/tongue in cheek, but we should probably be more careful. It is not fair to assume that readers have read every comment on every thread. I’m sorry if this was confusing.
This interpretation very much depends on what period of time you’re talking about; certainly desis in the 1800-1900s were covered for their criminality when the U.S. was arguing about kicking all the “Orientals” and dark-skinned “Caucasians” (read: Punjabis) out through the Asian Exclusion Act. Desis have been exoticized for being both “spiritual” and the “model” as well as for being barbaric (hello, Indiana Jones). I don’t think that the critical mass argument comes into play; it just feels that way, perhaps, for a specific subsection of the larger desi pop.
From a criminology standpoint, no (it is not an epidemic), but I would caution against giving people too much leeway. They brutally murdered and burned alive their family because they had “no outlet for their unhappiness and frustration”? All of these people certainly sound sick, and definitely with a completely different moral compass or sense of right/wrong, but let’s not infantilize them.
Padma Lakshmi is keeping the dream alive.
Partly yes, partly no.
This dependence is seen as a cultural strength – connectedness, togetherness.
There’s dependence, co-dependence and inter-dependence (a new buzz word). I would say desi culture is co-dependent, using the traditional definition, thought it paints itself as inter-dependent. In addition, eastward looking westerners who are looking for a new model for their cultures hold up desi culture as an example of “inter-dependent” after a week tour of the Agra-Jaipur-Udaipur circuit. So, it’s not entirely India’s fault that it’s painted in a glorious light by outsiders (in regards to “family values”, that is).
I guess a move from co-dependence to actual inter-dependence is in order.
Yeah, come on, what makes you think they had “no outlet” for their frustrations? Especially with a long tradition of dhyan, dharma and spirituality in their culture. There is no lack of religious centers in this country where one can go to “find peace” of sorts. They could even blog about their problems and find lots of support and well-wishers online. To say such a brutal murder of people is due simply to “frustration” is almost trivializing the crime.
If he’s sane – throw the book at the guy!
There is no excuse for their actions whatsoever, but you have to wonder if it’s the tip of the iceberg and how people can be helped before they get to the point of no return. After all, all three perps harmed themselves to a greater or lesser degree, which indicates some sort of treatable(?) mental illness.
104 · monimoni said
It may not be correct to use “epidemic” to describe these crimes. Often, the use of the epidemic metaphor is meant to dramatize a sharply accelerating crime rate (in this case burning incidents). For one, we are now more sensitive to these cases and therefore, are wired to think we are observing an epidemic. For example, these kinds of cases have been happening over a long period of time (not just 6 mos) and I don’t think it is correct to say that these crimes are occurring ‘in excess of what is normally expected’ as per the definition of an epidemic. Isn’t what is “normal”, that it shouldn’t happen at all? Nevertheless, 3 cases is 3 cases too many and often times we need for these crimes to be defined as an epidemic to bring proper justice to the issues.
Here’s another “cultural” defence for Looney Tunes: My astrologer said that this marriage would light up our home. After waiting in futility for 3 years, I decided to fulfil the prophecy myself.
His only hope of saving himself is if he gets Mark Geragos to represent him.
Two tiger taunters try to turn tables through this tactic too.
Be careful lest you be branded a troll 🙂
What? You never heard of widow burning/sati, dowry burning, johar?
Actually child marriage is very common in India.
The model minority myth is just that, a myth. It originally applied to the other asians, the east asians, and they do not try to make such a big deal out of it, recognizing it as a racial condescension. South asians on the other hand pretend that the asian model minority tag applies to them and get all puffed up over it. Get in touch with reality folks…
This guy must be hanged , then brought back to life and then hanged again….
128 · Dhoni said
I also find the “model minority” tag condescending. I don’t need or want white approval for my lifestyle.
Just imagine what Mr. Chander would’ve done if his daughter has married a black man!! Wow!!
The model minority myth is just that, a myth. It originally applied to the other asians, the east asians, and they do not try to make such a big deal out of it, recognizing it as a racial condescension. South asians on the other hand pretend that the asian model minority tag applies to them and get all puffed up over it. Get in touch with reality folks…
I think this is a ridiculous statement. IMO South Asians are less seeking of approval, more adamant about keeping their culture and not marrying nonwhites than any other asian group out there. As I’ve had guys before say to me “the hardest girls to date are jewish and indian girls, b/c they don’t date anyone else”.
So that’s my opinion from my experience and I guess it’s about as pretty worthless as your opinion on east asians and their use of the term “model minority”. I could go on about my opinions from my experience with east asians, but it’s silly to make such grand generalizations. Unless you know of some study, it just kindof seems your words just try and provoke w/o offering anything substantial.
Nobody really advocates it, but in India, killing by setting on fire is common in the act of killing. You don’t hear of gun shootings and knifings nearly as much as hear (read in the papers) about setting people on fire.
Self immolation in protest is also there, but not as common as immolating someone else.
My neighbor was set on fire shortly after delivering her child, she had not yet reached the age of 20 even, by her husband. He poured kerosene on her and lit a match. She ran down the street and was saved by some neighbors but she is scarred for life. No court case. No jail. No nothing, for the guy. She returned to live with her parents.
I think this is the easiest way to do away with someone when you don’t have access to guns and powerful knives.
Thanks $2000 for the psycho gibberish. It puts things in perspective. Squandering money on modern witch doctors is not a solution to problems affecting the community.
Cali, don’t indulge $2,000 from the sound of it, I believe she is PG so wait till we start about lingam and yonis.
I read today that this guy was caught stealing whiskey from a Dominicks store in the past and I also read a comment in the Chicago Sun-Times from a reader stating that this is terrorism and another reason all immigrants should leave.
You would think that is situation would be a xenophobe’s wet dream, an immigrant killing a bunch of immigrants and making alot of other immigrants homeless.
Modern witch doctors?
Such as?
That, my friend, is the definition of a troll. 🙂 As you’ll learn from Dhoni/Prema/Dev, brown people (especially Indians and Hindus) SUCK and are absolutely barbaric and an inferior race who are under the false impression that they’re humans, not savages.
Ummm, Mr Chander looks like a black man himself
139 · Karl said
And you look like a jackass. WTF?
Actually, India has a long history with immolation of self.
There are many stories of saints who immolate themselves by dint of their own mystic potency. The fire of tapa or repentence burns within their chitta (consciousness) and gets so hot and fierce that their bodies catch on fire. Then of course there is the ancient story of Sati (a name for Parvati, wife of Mahadeva Shiva) who sat down in meditation and started a mystic fire within herself and burned because she had to hear offense of her husband from from Daksha, her father. That is how she got the name “Sati” and I think the “sati tradition” took off from that. But note, she herself willed that death by fire via her mystic power, no light was matched. Then you have stories like Madri, one of the wives of Pandu who willingly walked onto her husbands funeral pyre. The other wife Kunti, did not. One of them had to stay beyond to lead the royal family, so Madri volunteered to do “sati”.
Anyway, there are so many stories dealing with willing death by fire in India, it’s referenced in poetry as well, such as;
Oh Prananath! If you do not return soon Your slave will immolate her body When her heart is already burning Why spare the limbs?
My point being above, even though I spoke of self-immolation, is that there is a long history of death by burning and I think a pyschological connection/identification with fire. Agnideva notwithstanding.
140 . Salil Maniktahla said
Agreed. Karl (a.k.a. “Dev” and “Dhoni”), enjoy being banned.
I think that this type of behavior in the Indian community is the norm when their children go against wishes. I read stoires all the time about this and am starting to believe that We shuold not let these people immigrate to US!!!I have a friend in a relationship with an Indian man (physician) and his mother and family has told them that they will kill one of them (she is American a DR also) if they see each other or get married. they even have a child which the family refuses to aknowledge. This is a sad culture and not one that I think belongs in a free country!!!
Mimi, actually MURDER of family is not the norm in the Indian community. Ex-communicating a member from the family – maybe, never speaking to one’s child again – maybe, threats of murder – maybe. But actual murder of a family member? No that’s not the norm.
I read somewhere that Australia or France (or both?) had plans to implement a sort of cultural training program for foreigners who sought immigration to their country (the article spoke specifically about middle eastern muslim immigrants) so that those people, after understanding the cultural norms they would be expected to accept and conform to, could decide if they really wanted to move there or not. Appearantly either one or both of those countries have had some very serious issues with foreigners conforming to not only the cultural norms of their country but conforming to the laws as well, and it had to do of course with women and relations between genders (who would’ve thought?) I think perhaps something like that would be good for USA to implement in order that people who come from cultural backgrounds that are vastly different from this one can understand what they are getting into, and decide if they will be able to adjust or not.
I also don’t think it’s a bad idea for India to implement the same. Afterall, an Isreali couple had legal action taken against them for kissing at their wedding in an Indian temple. So some sort of preparation may be needed for immigrants and even tourists to understand what sort of behaviour vibes with any given country or culture that they go to.
If the ethos, ethics, laws or overall vibe of a culture does not suit you and you think either it’s freedom or repression will pose problems for you and your family further down the line, well, there are literally hundreds of other countries to choose from.
New England Journal of Medicine Volume 358:2201-220 May 22, 2008 Number 21 Driven to a Fiery Death The Tragedy of Self-Immolation
http://content.nejm.org/cgi/content/full/358/21/2201