The opposition Orissa Congress Party is pissed off and they ain’t going to take it no more. Surely I am referring to some local matter (perhaps involving bauxite), right? Nope. They are pissed off at the online (mostly T-shirt) store CafePress and want to lodge a formal complaint with the United States government so as to put a stop to the highly offensive insanity I am about to describe. We’ve heard this all before from American Hindus, but this one just escalates the absurdity to a whole new level:
 |
|
Is that a Nehru in your pocket or are you just glad to see me? |
Insensitivity towards foreign cultures and sentiments has plumbed new depths. A US-based online shop has kicked up a storm by printing images of the Tricolour, Mahatma Gandhi and Jawaharlal Nehru on undergarments.
The Orissa Congress on Saturday condemned the “cheap publicity stunt.” “This is stupid on the website’s part to malign a world leader like Gandhi and a great national icon like Nehru in such a disgraceful fashion,” Opposition leader, J B Patnaik, said, adding, “They should be told through proper channels to stop it. Since the website is US-based, I urge Indians there to lodge strong protests…” [Link]
<
p>Did you hear that? “They should be told…to stop it.” I beseech you my fellow Indian Americans to heed the call of this nobody politician from Orissa and demand that we protest against the First Amendment of these United States. If you remain unconvinced then I must point out that the reputations of Gandhi, Nehru, and the Indian Flag are not the only ones at stake. There is far greater disrespect involved here:
Youth also protested against the derogatory portrayal of Bollywood icons, Amitabh Bachchan and Shah Rukh Khan, on similar products. Now, it’s the turn of freedom fighters to air their grievances against the “offensive attacks on national leaders”. [Link]
<
p>I just can’t understand why anyone would be offended by an Indian Flag on a thong?? I guarantee you that any man that uncovers one in the proper context will spontaneously break out in a rendition of Jana Gana Mana (even though I don’t know the lyrics I could hum them). And on the flipside, what girl wouldn’t want to see me strut in a pair of these?
 |
|
Baby is that Bachchan on yo drawz? That’s hot. |
I wonder, perhaps, could it be that there is an election close at hand in Orissa? Let me tell you something politicians of Orissa. This here is America, where freedom rules and our crotches are free to be decorated in any manner we choose. If I choose an aging Bollywood star to adorn my manhood, thats my right! America, F*ck yeah, freedom is the only way!
This is my new favorite slogan. And this is my theme song.
See, I actually LIKE the underwear, it’s double-entendre value alone makes it for me (“wanna see my trunk?”). All I’m saying is that I can understand why someone wouldn’t and would want to express their opinion on that issue and seek to influence the topic. I don’t think it’s out of place for them to do so. Yes, sometimes the issues are there to generate more light than heat (or vice-versa depending on which one you feel is better these days) but sometimes it truly is a visceral reaction and people feel the need to raise it–they still have time to devote to other issues of policy. In this case, if the party in question isn’t dealing with other issues, then yes I agree, they need to be called on it. But if this is just one point on their platform, whatever.
Symbols are powerful things precisely because of the underlying ideas they represent. So, I can see why some (not necessarily all) persons from group A might get upset about group B setting up the possibility of skid marks (speaking of tasteless) on a deity that they revere, especially if a) they don’t see the same things happening to other people’s symbols (especially if group B treats its own symbols as sacrosanct) and b) if there is a history whereby B has targetted A or dismissed A’s or its members as inferior. As I also said, there isn’t necessarily an obligation on group B to change how it treats the symbols, but there is certainly no obligation on A to keep quiet about it and focus on the things that group B thinks are important.
Did I really invoke Godwin’s law? It seems to me that the Indian restaurant and/or Western media did on that one. If so, unintentional foul cause I was really talking about the government intervention on an extra-territorial issue. Too meta for me.. 🙂
And no, the restaurant and underwear issue are in fact the the same. Group A is shocked or pissed off that somebody else, outside their borders, is not treating their symbols in the way Group A expects/demands/wants. Just because you don’t ascribe the same values to Group A’s symbols as you do to Group B doesn’t change the underlying issue. Also, although it’s still irrelevant, it wasn’t just Bollywood stars–Indian national leaders and Hindu deities were also given the unfull Monty treatment.
In other news, some Sikhs are mad because the Vancouver Sun ran a photo of the Golden Temple with story about a local drug ring bust which had nothing to do with the Golden Temple.
Blasphemy’s in the air. ‘Tis the season, I suppose.
Ente, I hear you. But Indians don’t realize that in the West, people do make fun of their traditional religion (i.e. Christianity). I think because they don’t hear any noise about Americans complaining loudly about this they think that it doesn’t happen. I am much more concerned about the treatment of Hinduism in primary/secondary education. I have a great deal of respect for/and agree with Witzel and Doniger on many aspects of early Indian history (e.g. India as a syncretic culture with IE diffusion) and religion (e.g. psyche giving form to gods) for example, but they address an audience that has a religious studies specialist definition of words like “mythology” and “cult” that is neutral. However words like this have a derogatory connotation in wider usage and it would be impossible for a K-12 audience not to walk away with a negative impression. I wish people like me could bring up points like this in a sane and respectful way, but groups like ASATA will brand you a “Hindu fundamentalist” and a fellow traveller with Modi/VHP etc.
I am much more concerned about the treatment of Hinduism in primary/secondary education.
Can you elaborate?
While we are talking about sensitivity of symbols, I am curious to know how swastikas are dealt with in US. In India swastikas are drawn for almost all ceremonies (including wedding, house-entry etc etc) as it is the sign for any auspicious occasions. So are these not drawn at all in US hindu celebrations ? How is it dealt with it here by the hindu/buddhist community ? I remember EU wants to ban the symbol but hindus protested that.
I actually have a friend who is Catholic who has a ‘Jesus is my homeboy’ shirt. If I wore shirts with slogans on them I would want a ‘Buddha is my om boy’ one.
No, I am sick of it and most of SM has made its mind up. Large numbers of the educated elite in the West are turning towards Indic philosophy in some shape or form, so to waste time on it would be to grant the inevitable losers more time than they deserve
Actually, the picture of Indian flag on that panty makes it look like a bull’s eye, rather something thats focussing right on ya. Here in Austin, Long and Horny is good!
Long live Ashoka Chakram!!
I think the restaurant case is different from the underwear case because the restaurant is publicly visible and hopefully the underwear isn’t. It’s more actively causing offense, to anyone walking by, in that way. That includes local Mumbai Jews. I agree that putting national leaders and deities on underwear (or shoes) is in bad form, though. It’s just that the OCP ridicules itself by calling the Big B and SRK ‘national heroes’ that need to be saved from defilement or something.
I’ve known some DBDs who have painted it on their doors, they quickly erase them and bring them inside. There are many Jewish Buddhists in NYC, they are at first shocked and then realize it had no anti-semitic significance until the 1900s. Most museums in the US explain this in their Asia collections. I don’t make a fuss over it because I’ve always thought of it on the level of a good luck charm like a four leaf clover, rather than a deeply significant religious symbol like the “Om” sign or crucifix
Did anyone else hear that story (I wonder if it’s an urban legend) about the Hindu woman getting married to a Jewish dude whose wedding invitations, sent to both their families, had the swastika printed all over them? Heh.
I think that there is still a reflexive horror reaction by the “mainstream” in the U.S./Canada when they see a swastika. That has changed slightly in areas where there is more awareness of usage by other cultures and I expect it will continue to change with continued exposure. The Hindu/Buddhist communities may be more circumspect as to how and when they display the swastika (e.g. on the INSIDE of the wedding invitation), but it has not been completely obliterated. Moreover, as Hindus and Buddhists start becoming more comfortable with their place in society (see, 2nd gens are good for something ;)) I suspect they will be more assertive about usage, just as I suspect 2nd gens are probably more comfortable (as a whole if not on a one to one basis) about the Indian flag underwear.
louiecypher, I agree with you regarding the manner in which Christian symbols are treated. That’s why I think, if the matter threatens to get out of hand, it would behoove someone in India to pull out some Jesus condoms and show that no, nothing is sacred in the U.S. marketplace, at least when it comes to leaders and religious symbols. Then the issue can be about the depraved U.S. as opposed to the bigoted imperialist anti-Hindu U.S. ;).
(as an aside, I got the sense that a lot of people out here assumed/feared/expected that globalization meant that so called Western values would become the new dominant monoculture. These days, I’m not so sure that’s how things are ultimately going to play out).
This could be such a hit with the ladies. You know, wearing the underwear my motherland laid out for me.
I know a Korean women who wears a a large swastika pendant encrusted with diamonds.
Trivializing the genocidal extinction of 6 million members of a community is a tad different than wounding somebody’s religious or nationalistic sentiments. All offense isn’t created equal. (That said, I don’t think protesting these irrelevant issues is worthy anybody’s time).
What if low riders became common in India, nala?
I think Indians, especially hindus, are big on symbolism (e.g. no feet on books, idols for worship, etc etc). To each culture their own. If is only a mere protest I don’t think it’s a big deal although I totally concur that it is for cheap publicity. I just remembered a story about Vivekananda explaining symbolism/idol worship.
All offence isn’t created equal.
Indeed. My point is, who are YOU to decide what group A should find more or less offensive? You’re coming at it from your viewpoint, they from theirs. If he’d called it the Columbus Day Cafe (you know where I’m going with this), would that have been ok? Since the stated fact is that genocide and extermination cannot be trivialized (is there anyone here who wants to deny the extremely negative population impact of colonization on indigenous groups in North America?) —shouldit be okay? Or do we further qualify by saying that it’s okay to trivialize genocides that occurred 100+ years ago, but not genocides within the last century? Or maybe it’s okay to trivialize genocides that occurred on our own soil but not when committed by someone else. Or maybe just genocides where heirs to the perpetrators are the eventual winners are joke-worthy.
One can certainly disagree with their assessment that offence to religion is no big deal (but I’m guessing in a land with a history of communal riots, the audience may be less sympathetic) and continue to buy Durga underoos. They can disagree with our assessment regarding the restaurant and say that they in turn think it’s no big deal to dress up a restaurant with Nazi regalia. Look at the end of the day, each raises the issue, the concerns are noted and possibly addressed and still the world moves.
63 · ente said:
Things are getting out of hand, from what I understand. Well, just starting to. My dad was just in India and he says that diwali is well on its way to becoming the orgy of consumption that Christmas has become in the US.
Hasn’t it always been so? When I was growing up, it was always looked on as an occasion to spend by nearly everyone I knew. Food or firecrackers or clothes or travel. The budgets would be different of course, and it might be more ostentatious these days because of growing prosperity and wealth, but I don’t see the fundamental attitude to have changed.
Zuni, in my personal opinion, based on my own experience, Indians are no more or less affected by symbolism than people in the U.S.–it’s just that the power/lightning-rod symbols, and the rules surrounding the symbols, are different. In my view, if symbols weren’t as big a deal in the U.S., there wouldn’t be the annual “War on Christmas” debate that has been going on for some time now. There wouldn’t be public outcries and resulting debates about whether it’s okay to fly a Confederate flag on a state legislature or to call someone “nappy-headed” or the other “n-word”. There wouldn’t be the plethora of wrist bracelets (“wriststrong”) out there and there would be no Darwin fish (a deliberate reaction and retort to the Christian fish symbols some people put on their cars) around.
I agree, and not to mention as residents of the worlds strongest nation American cultural conservatives have so many salves to heal their hurt sentiments with. An American conservative can go from “I am outraged by Life of Brian” to “Dude, I am jonesing for some Krispy Kreme” in less than 5 seconds. Po’ Indians don’t get no candy, so all we can taste is the bile
I’m glad CafePress is equal among the religions.
You’d see the back part of the thong (the string) with low riders, not the front part that contains the offensive image (though the backside could be an offense in itself).
ente, I would find somebody who thinks that people in Native American gear prancing around at basketball games is acceptable while being appalled at a gratuitous use of Hitler inconsistent. This could obviously devolve into an orgy of stultifying political correctness, which is why I think taking offense at largely meaningless things like this is silly. I also agree with your larger point that, sure, people can get upset about these things, as long as they don’t feel the need to resort to property damage or threats. And I reserve the right to mock them in return (the war on christmas is a prime example here in the US).
nala, thanks for the detailed clarification. What if somebody had the flag tattooed on their backside though?
No, I am sick of it and most of SM has made its mind up. Large numbers of the educated elite in the West are turning towards Indic philosophy in some shape or form, so to waste time on it would be to grant the inevitable losers more time than they deserve
I have not made up my mind so I am sure there are others as well. I am presuming you are talking about the treatment of Hinduism in a world religion class or something.
I am in Bhubaneswar, Orissa (my home town) for the last week. I heard this news, but its not a conversation piece. No one I have talked to mentioned it to me. I think the reaction came from an Orissa leader perhaps because of Lord Jagannath’s images (see http://www.odisha.in/news/151/ARTICLE/1969/2007-12-23.html) in some of those underwears, and the leader probably thought he will get some mileage by making those statements. From the non-reaction here he failed. However, it got picked up by the national and international media. The local media, may be printed the story once, and then forgot about it. See http://www.google.com/news?sourceid=navclient-ff&rlz=1B3GGGL_enUS249US249&hl=en&ned=&q=Orissa+underwear&btnG=Search+News
Orissans revere Lord Jagannath. For those of who who may not know about Lord Jagannath you may check out http://www.jogaworld.org/. It gave English the word “Juggernaut” and the Rath yatras that take place in many locations around India and the world.
Since there were comments about Orissa’s poverty and backwardness, things seem to be on the positive trail here. If I may, I compile news about progress in Orissa in http://orissagrowth.org.
I’d say they’re taking their nationalism to a whole new (lower) level. 🙂
Thanks Chitta, and I’m glad (as you say) the local population is smart enough to see when a politician is trying to inflame them for no good reason.
I am talking about the California textbook controversy where anyone who had issues with the section on Hinduism was lumped together with the VHP no matter how reasoned or reasonable their concerns. It’s not too much to ask that other religions be presented critically or to suggest that in a wider audience (i.e. not Religious studies MS & PhD students) that: a) Mythology means a collection of baroque tall tales b) Cult means a group that uses brainwashing for nefarious ends c) god is a disrespectful diminutive of God
There are no penalties for calling someone a fascist in real life and fewer still for calling one online so I don’t care anymore
louiecypher: Thanks for the information. I have heard of the controversy but to be honest have not really looked into it. I will look into it now.
Newsflash: Patnaik realizes the similarity of nomenclature between food items and the Lord, demands ban of dough fried in oil and eaten with potatoes!
louiecypher, most of what I had heard about the controversy was opposition to mention of the Aryan Invasion theory, because it was an affront to the uniquely homegrown and billions of years old “made in India” culture. To be honest, though, I wasn’t following it very closely. What were the specific mentions of Hinduism that you are alluding to?
Aside from the AIT which I accept, there is objection to the use of the specialist language I allude to above. There are valid critiques of Vedic Hinduism that the VHP objected to, but curiously there are no critiques of other religions
I think the protest against Indian flag on underwear is valid. Americans can do whatever they want with their own flag but doing it to other soverign country’s flag is insenstive and offensive.
The same rules of political correctness in comedy applies here, “one can crack as many jokes as they want about their own ethnicity — joking on accent/culture of others would become bullying”. These rules apply to religion too. The majority religion can afford to poke fun of itself, but disparaging a minority religion in a country implies bullying again.
It wouldn’t have been offensive if these products were produced in India because, the controversies like these make people of the country examine the silliness/seriousness of their beliefs. It is indeed demeaning if done by others, irrespective of the intentions of Orissa congress party.
By the way, displaying the product on the internet garners much wider audience than a restuarant in one single location.
Wow, Meena, did you mean to come off as condescending, or was that unintentional? I never said I become apopletctic over these things, merely that I find them offensive. I like to think there are varying degrees of offense, and while there are certainly issues that send my temperature climbing, this is not one of those things.
It has nothing to do with my sense of national pride — I think these are in terrible taste. But maybe people have no idea of what a flag is supposed to symbolize, and are thus comfortable with being totally inappropriate. I take its display and use seriously, and while I don’t think it requires limiting “free speech” (really, is this the case for free speech?), I’m comfortable saying it’s a stupid thing to do.
And even worse if it’s featuring gods.
It’s called a whale tail, yo.
Hi Chitta,
I read an article in the Wall Street Journal (which I can’t find now) about some villagers who were being forced to sell their subsistence farms at a pittance so a huge steel factory could go in. I’m sure the free market fundamentalists on this site will say that those farmers will be better off when they get the jobs they’re guaranteed at the steel plant–that their annual income will rise along with the GDP. But what really surprised me, consider that the article was from the very pro-business WSJ is a great deal of column space was devoted to the story of a neighbor village where the farmers did indeed sell their land. They lived off the money from the land sale for a while, but the proposed plant construction was mired in delay and those poor people ran out of money before the jobs ever materialized.
Do you know what I’m talking about? Any update?
By the way, Chitta, I forgot to mention that both those villages were in Orissa.
Camille @ 86 said:
You mean like this? (From the link Dizzy Desi provided at comment 26.)
No 🙂 Unless the $100 features a Hindu deity that I missed?
Camille, this is America- money is God.
Definitely brings a different meaning to the phrase, ‘Show me the Benjamins!’
“And even worse if it’s featuring gods.”
Is there a fine line between art and sacreligious fashion? For the lurkers, who’ll pounce upon a moment’s notice, I am NOT saying this is fashion. BUT, this incident reminds me of a time when I wrote a fashion story on Manish Arora (the Versace of India). One of the runway images that accompanied my spread has a tight fitted tunic, with the OM symbol emblazened in the lower corner. The tunic was worn with tights and created in his usual melange of kaleidoscopic colours. Needless to say, Hindus in Canada and the US deluged the publication with their haterade for both his designs and my story! I didn’t know whether I should be impressed with Hindus taking a stance, or upset they targeted me as the typical Westerner, who exploited the religious connotations within fashion. For the record, the images was one of 48 from his runway show, so I had no idea or voice about the choice. BUT, I did get a raise since the hate mail made the story even more scandalous.
What a bunch of idiots, really! Haven’t they heard of the saying “Let barking dogs bark”?
Why are Indians so insecure about anything and everything? Are our leaders and icons so frail that they need us to constantly defend them whenever some idiot fashion designer chooses to “defile” them?
Btw, the spamkiller word in the posting area is not an image, so you might want to make it one!
check this one out…. http://www.thestatesman.net/page.news.php?clid=23&theme=&usrsess=1&id=182203
Ente@ 38,
You are assuming that the government of Orissa is speaking for all Indians — all one billion of us. And they are not. The Orissa government (including former chief minister Biju Patnaik) is not particularly well-regarded where governance and promoting citizens’ welfare is concerned. Have you heard of the Anjana Mishra affair? Or the rat-eating tribals of Kalahandi? So the same gentleman who did not lift a finger when a defenceless woman was gang-raped in front of witnesses, and who used the power of his political office to obstruct justice is now, suddenly, the defender of the Indian flag? The same Biju Patnaik who failed to provide food to the famine-struck villages of Kalahandi (which is why they resorted to eating rats) is now traumatised by the tricolour-bearing thong? And you are defending his choice of priorities? Umm, let me see…helping famine-ravaged tribals vs protesting against Cafe Press! Umm the thong wins! Are you kidding me? I would say the Indian nation and the Indian flag was shamed more by his actions than it would be by any number of tri-colour bearing chuddies.
I also think you have a very naive understanding of Indian politics, which is why you have been generous enough to attribute noble intentions to Biju Patnaik and his ilk. WHERE WAS MR PATNAIK WHEN THE STAINES FAMILY WAS BURNT ALIVE IN THEIR CAR BY HINDU FUNDAMENTALISTS? As an Indian, (and a Hindu) I am more ashamed to see that I am represented by politicians who have already made a pact with the Devil. Believe me, tri-colour sporting chuddies do NOT keep me awake at night, Anjana Mishra, Bhanwari Devi, Godhra and Graham Staines do.
Hardeep:
Such news reports do appear and there is truth to them. Its a complex issue but here is my side of it in short.
Orissa is rich in minerals, has a pretty big coastline, but is perhaps the poorest state in the country. Until recently, minerals were mined from Orissa and mostly transported to the rest of the country and the world. The mining royalty rules pay pittance to the state. I tried to figure out some of it and compiled some info on that at http://mines.orissalinks.com . Recently the state government has taken the stand that it will insist that companies who want mine leases also set up a value addition units (steel plants, aluminum plants etc.) in the state. Hence a lot of steel, aluminum, and power (lot of coal in Orissa) companies are setting shop in Orissa. Similar things are happening in Jharkhand and Chhatisgarh; but Orissa has a coastline. These developments are leading to new highways, new rail lines and new ports in Orissa. (e.g: Tatas and L& T are setting up a port in Dhamara. etc.) The CEO (Anil Agarwal) of one of the companies (Vedanta) setting up an aluminum plant and many other units has pledged $1 billion from his own (not his company’s) money to make a Harvard/Stanford type university in Orissa. See http://vedanta.edu.in/. I have talked to their officials in Mumbai and Bhubaneswar and they seem to be sincere. This is a quick summary. One can get a more comprehensive idea in the web pages I mentioned earlier.
Now all these need land. The land records in Orissa is very badly maintained. People are poor. Almost 40% of the land mass of Orissa has a majority of adivasis. Many of the minerals happen to be in these areas. The past legacy of various governments (central and state) in terms of paying people properly for their land taken (for Rourkela steel plant; for Hirakud dam) is very bad. And many people have indeed taken the money and spent it and have become poorer than before. Things are better these days. Companies like Tatas have started taking better care of displaced people. (Google: Tata Steel parivar and also see also http://www.orissalinks.com/orissagrowth/?p=82) However, more help, in terms of making sure that displaced people are appropriately compensated and educated about finances, is needed. Unfortunately, there is more politics than real desire for help. Many political parties (such as the Communist Party of India and its variants), who do not really win any elections, create havoc in opposing any development; especially the big name ones as those give them more publicity. These actions slow Orissa’s progress to get out of the bottom of all development indices.
Preeti (96):
You are confusing the “Patnaiks”. The recent comment was made by JB Patnaik, the Congress leaders of opposition in the Orissa assembly; and he was the one involved in the scandal you mention.
Biju Patnaik is a different person. He passed away in 1997.
For info on Biju Patnaik see the NY Times article on him at http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9E05E4DD173EF932A15757C0A961958260&sec=&spon=&partner=permalink&exprod=permalink
There is also a nice article on him in the Economist that needs premium access. http://www.economist.com/obituary/displaystory.cfm?story_id=E1_TQRDNG&CFID=940248&CFTOKEN=419d2b23a46727b1-0F17E8A1-B27C-BB00-014302BDF1A0F080
Another Patnaik, Naveen Patnaik, the current chief minister of Orissa, is the son of Biju Patnaik.
Strutting is surely not a catalyst for rutting.
What about the image of Jesus on sanitary pads and toilet tissue? Strange how that never strikes someone as fitting a neat market niche? This guy talks about some “nobody politician” in Orissa (a state with a larger population than, say, Louisiana, where students get murdered in broad daylight), but what do you think a famous guy like BAAAAbby JindAAAAl would say about the products suggested in the first sentence of my comment? What would you say, Abhi babay of the land of milk and honey?