Back in May, I wrote a post about the Muttontown/Long Island couple who were accused of treating their Indonesian maids like “modern-day slaves”. It is time for an update (thanks, various tipsters):
A jury on Monday convicted a millionaire couple of enslaving two Indonesian women they brought to their mansion to work as housekeepers.
Mahender Murlidhar Sabhnani, 51, and his wife, Varsha Mahender Sabhnani, 45, were each convicted of all charges in a 12-count federal indictment that included forced labor, conspiracy, involuntary servitude, and harboring aliens. [MSNBC]
In addition to grueling 18-hour days, Samirah and Enung were “fortunate enough” to receive discipline and opportunities like those detailed below:
Allegations of abuse included beatings with brooms and umbrellas, slashings with knives, being made to repeatedly climb stairs and take freezing-cold showers as punishment for misdeeds that included sleeping late or stealing food from trash bins because they were poorly fed.
Samirah, the woman who fled the house in May, said she was forced to eat dozens of chili peppers and then was forced to eat her own vomit when she failed to digest the peppers, prosecutors said… [MSNBC]
This next bit is clearly a misinterpretation of actual events; I’m sure that Mrs. Sabhnani was merely trying to assist with hair removal. That’s quite thoughtful of her!
Enung testified that Samirah’s nude body once was covered in plastic wrapping tape on orders from Varsha Sabhnani, who then instructed Enung to rip it off. “When I pulled it off, she was screaming,” the housekeeper said through an interpreter before breaking down in tears on the witness stand. [MSNBC]
These disposable women should have been grateful that they were allowed to come to America, so that they could live in a mansion– and be stashed in a 3’x3′ space whenever visitors came, lest they embarrass their generous employers with their bruises and scars. If they hadn’t been so gluttonous as to sift through the trash for scraps, then they wouldn’t have been punished. Makes perfect sense…if you’re EVIL. But wait! There’s MORE!
The Sabhnanis’ defense attorneys contended the two women concocted the story of abuse as a way of escaping the house for more lucrative opportunities. [CNN]
You know, when I’m on the prowl for more lucrative opportunities, I always make sure that I rush in to a Dunkin’ Donuts with naught but a towel for a shirt and then fake abuse while pleading for help. Works every time.
They argued the housekeepers practiced witchcraft and may have abused themselves as part of an Indonesian self-mutilation ritual. They also said the couple went on frequent vacations that would have given the two women ample opportunity to flee. [MSNBC]
Obviously they didn’t practice witch stuff enough! I mean, if you don’t have the power to ingest 25 chili peppers like it ain’t no thang, well, you’re an embarrassment to your kind. Actually, it’s a good thing these witches were terrible at their craft; imagine what manner of wicked mischief they might have inflicted on their poor, persecuted, millionaire employers, had they had the time or energy provided by scraps of food from the garbage, to work on such things.
I didn’t think I could loathe these people more, but after reading that “strategy” put forth by their lawyers, I think I might. Then again, perhaps it’s heartless of us to blame this couple, when their greedy witch-employees just wanted to have some traditional, self-mutilatin’ fun? The Sabhnanis are the real victims here. I mean, look at this:
Varsha Sabhnani, 45, and one of her daughters collapsed in disbelief as the damning verdict was read – and were taken to a hospital for treatment. [NYDailyNews]
Maybe histrionics are like cooties? Contagious?
Defense attorney Jeffrey Hoffman said he would appeal. “Apparently, the jury was taken by the histrionics …” of the Indonesian women, he said. [CNN]
Here’s the best quote ever:
“We never did anything to anybody,” the Sabhnanis’ daughter Tina screamed. “How could this happen to us in America?” [NYDailyNews]
Yes, Tina. How COULD this happen, not just in America, but in your own home?
Mother Teresa was no Mother Teresa.
“Chottu alla chottu alla”
Marathi, for sure, perhaps others too – maybe Gujarati, not sure.
nah, we say chota alla (masc) or choti alli (fem).
I think the kids are guilty from a moral perspective. I do not think there is a law against snitching or locking the fridge.
Marathi is right. chota would have been correct, but I said Chottu which stuck on and became his nickname/pet-name ever since….
Jai
i know jangli janwar clarified her statement, and i agree with pingpong that it’s quite possible that the defendants went against counsel’s advice in disregarding a plea (and, as jj said, pleas are common – in fact, this the sort of case where a plea would be most plausible – prosecution had enough for a near slam dunk – the expense of a jury trial was unnecessary, and knowing how strong the prosecution case was, a defendant should have been thankful to get a reduced sentence). however, even if the defendants did go against counsel’s advice, i wonder if they would still try to assert ineffective assistance of counsel in their appeal – it’s the most common assertion in criminal appeals (and it usually also fails).
i could see a lot of reasons for the sabhnanis going against a lawyer’s advice but brown us vs white lawyer seems a weaker reason. yes, a desi mentality could play in for sure – ego, pride, money = invincibilty – but i can see plenty of non-desi people in their sitation (esp. if rich) thinking they can beat this thing (you also have to wonder at the rationality of someone who administers this sort of abuse). i feel like a lot of rich people were relieved in cases like oj simpson – a glimmer of hope that they, too, could escape even the most heinous of crimes. but that case had a lot of problems that allowed the defense to topple the prosecution (i.e. the case was somewhat shaky enough that all the creative lawyering actually could work). this case, on the other hand, seems to be a bit more solid…
Amazing that they dont see anything wrong with this “indian mentality” even after living in America for so long. Typically amoral desi chalta hai attitude.
Since its the indian culture that’s responsible for creating and sustaining this inhumane “indian mentality” its the culture that must be held ultimately responsible. What else can be blamed for India being the world leader in child slavery, child prostitution, child malnutrition, child marriage, maid abuse, etc? Not to mention casteism, untouchability, superstition, beggary, communalism etc.
And yet these same indians living in America and enjoying the benefits of its culture have the obscene gall to sing the glories of indian culture and how superior it is to american culture!
Is it ‘ayvo’ or AVYO?
Hi Prema!
dev-
well, surely india does not lead in all of these categories – although i do understand what you are getting it. india has many human rights issues.
i belong to a desi listserv and someone posted a link to an article about the sabhanis yesterday. the only line in the email was “is this really true, can it be?!?” my immediate thought was…yes, sherlock – it’s only gone through a us court system, which can be flawed, but most likely isn’t in this case given the facts presented. what’s interesting is the sense of disbelief on the poster’s part…as if it’s hard to believe someone of desi origin could be capable of these crimes.
ak,
First, dude, I’m a dude. I might need a new handle to clarify that. Second, the Sabhnanni’s wealth certainly may have played a role in how they viewed their chances of beating the rap. The sense of entitlement and invincibility that wealth imbues some people may have had some role in the Sabhnanni’s thought process. My comment was directed more at the tendency of some of the older brown folk to blindly follow the legal advice of a gora lawyer. Assuming they didn’t foist the defense on their counsel and it was their counsel’s idea to launch this strategy, I could see how some older brown folk like the Sabhnanni’s might think it plausible because a gora lawyer suggested it. My comments weren’t directed at any sort of desi mentality. Though, your comments do make me wonder if that had any role in their thinking.
I talked to some people who went to high school with the kids, and they’re all pretty much pissing me off. The claims of, ‘Oh it’s probably fraud, the women had so much time to escape,’ and ‘It’s probably overstated,’ and ‘They have no real evidence.’ ABDs, folks. I mean they probably don’t want to believe it’s true since it happened in their community. But still. Read a fucking newspaper.
Hi Nala, Do you live anywhere near Syosset/Muttontown as I do?
The last words heard by the sahbanis from their “ex-slaves” before they were tooken out:
“Thanks for mutton”
Nala, you’re right…there is a lot of denial in the community about this case…most desis I’ve talked to want to give the Sabhnanis the benefit of the doubt and/or they think they didn’t do it and/or they think someone is framing them and/or they think the servants are lying and/or they feel the (likely) prison sentences are going to be too harsh.
or they feel the (likely) prison sentences are going to be too harsh
Thats not terribly unreasonable.
No, muttontowner, I don’t, but I know many people who live in the area.
Amitabh, without denying the existence of denial in the South Asian community (on many matters, including the existence of cruel and inhumane treatment and exploitation of domestic help) – there are two things that can still be brought up: (i) That conviction on a count of, say, assault or illegal confinement does not mean that everything the plaintiffs said (the 25 chili peppers, the 30 hot showers, the running up and down stairs as punishment etc) is 100% true. It simply means the jury was convinced there was evidence to convict on the general charge. This is relevant because a lot of the public’s umbrage is over the details of the treatment (ii) I read a comment on the SAJAForum which said that the only evidence presented in the trial was the plaintiff’s testimony itself. I don’t know if this is true, but given that the plaintiffs could win big in a civil suit and/or also get residency etc, I feel relying solely on the plaintiff’s testimony can be unfair to the defendant, since plaintiffs could have a reason to embroider or embellish if not exaggerate.
There are other issues also, such as those raised by Jungli Janwar upthread, including procedural fairness, etc. With high profile prosecutions, there is always an ‘exemplary punishment’ for ‘deterrent effect’ angle. It is worth asking if individual justice and fairness then become casualties, and to what extent that applies here.
Cripes! They were only made to “eat” chilli peppers! Mirchi(chilli) powder was put into my eyes when I was a kid. I guess now my parents can even take credit for my 20-20 vision (in the hindsight 😉 )!
Jai
jungli janwar, i’m sorry for the gender confusion (fyi, i am not a dude). i guess i also misunderstood your reference to their white lawyer – but i do agree – esp. since the one clip i saw of their attorney speaking, he seemed very confident as to their position in the case (this was after the verdict had been read). so then the question arises of whether there was, in fact, a plea, and if the sabhnanis trusted their lawyer blindly, what happened. i haven’t been reading this case very closely – any indication that a plea was actually discussed?
How do you embroider or embellish open wounds, unless you buy in to the Sabhnani’s deplorable “self-mutilation ritual” defense? Why are some of us so reluctant to believe this could happen?
What bothers me is the following thought experiment: what if this were a white or Arab family with South Asian maids? Would we be so willing to take caution regarding the plaintiff’s testimony? Would we accuse the maids of trying to get wealthy and secure residency? It just feels a little hypocritical.
chachaji, i think you bring up some very important points in the weakness of the trial system, and also in perception by the general public as to what the evidence, verdicts etc mean. as for relying solely on a victim’s (in criminal cases, they don’t use the term ‘plaintiff’ when talking about the victim, or at all, really, since the prosecution is running the case) testimony – part of the jury’s job is to evaluate the credibility of the witness. this depends a great deal not just on how the testimony is given, but also what sort of testimony given. if i were sitting on a jury, it would be hard for me to convict just based on a victim’s statements – there has to be something more – testimony of others, pictures etc that would corroborate. it is also the defense’s job to bring up these weaknesses – biases, inconsistency, credibility, ulterior motives etc – and i would weigh that into my evaluation of the victim testimony. that said, the pscyhology of juries is very interesting – the jury instructions can only prod juries to think about so much, and sometimes such decisions are more influenced by emotion or instinct, than anything else. clearly, some of the biggest faults in the entire system lie in human error. on the other hand, this human error might exist even if it were a bench (judge) trial. overall, i think the system here works quite well, but there is, obviously, room for improvement. but there is only so much that can counteract such human error before you scrap it for a new system, which itself would come with its own set of problems.
Jai, you need to go kick your parents’ asses. Physically. Both of them. Use your karate skills if you have to. I’m sorry but they were monsters to you.
Your best revenge is, do well, marry a nice woman, have a happy family, as many friends as you can, and DO NOT INCLUDE THEM (YOUR PARENTS) IN ANYTHING.
The above is itself a shameful example of indian-american denial and dishonesty over this issue. There was plenty evidence of torture presented in court. The defense claimed it was self-inflicted but the jury did not buy it. Considering the widespread abuse and exploitation of maids in India why are so many desis pretending disbelief?
This family kept these maids illegally, paid them a pittance which is also illegal, allowed them no free time and physically and mentally abused them. This may all be very normal and acceptable in India, the “indian mentality” as mentioned previously, but in America these are all punishable offenses.
By the way, I wonder how this is playing out in Indonesia and Malaysia. The maids are muslim malays and hindu indians arent well-liked there to begin with.
I wondered about this, but I was not able to find anything related to the Sabhnanis on any Indonesian-American blog or news source. I may not have used the right keywords. If anyone finds anything, please correct me.
But this is quite interesting: most blogs and MSM focused on the specific desi connection to this case are either in South Asia or focused on South Asia. The only major exception I found to this was VDARE, which spun it as “Media calls them a NY couple, a LI couple, a US couple. They have names like Sabhnani. They are not American. They are Indian. Slavery is common in India. Americans don’t have slaves”. But I’m glad that it was VDARE which spun it this way – validates everyone else’s position in comparison.
“By the way, I wonder how this is playing out in Indonesia and Malaysia. The maids are muslim malays and hindu indians arent well-liked there to begin with.”
Interesting. Wonder if the female sabhnani (indonesian ties, I gather) had some sort Marsellus Wallace-esque orifice pounding experience back in Indonesia that led her to import a couple of poor malays to exact her revenge. Although, Wallace’s predicament was comical in the movie, images of a similar situation with the female Sabhnani as the recipient is causing my kappa and meen curry lunch to make an painful re-appearance.
As the comments are now going in an entirely unpredictable direction, let me be the first to say ‘FREE THE SABHNANIS’. I have also started a website http://www.thesabhanisareinnocent.com
Whoops
yeah its avyo
Chachaji and AK, speaking of procedural fairness, check out the ny newsday article regarding the sentencing and this little vignette from same: http://www.newsday.com/news/local/nassau/ny-bzslav21,0,6665185.story
Before Spatt read his decision, the Sabhnanis’ lawyers asked him to throw out the verdict, claiming jury misconduct. The lawyers said that a New York Post reporter told them that a Daily News photographer heard two female jurors shouting, “Guilty! Guilty!” three weeks ago in a courthouse parking lot.
Spatt said he would take no action until the lawyers produced written statements from the photographer and a New York Post reporter who told the lawyers about the incident.
“I will not do anything without a sworn statement,” Spatt said.
Holy Shit!
As a first time poster, I find this discussion about the way South Asians treat their help to be fascinating. By way of background, I was born in India but have lived outside of India for most of my life – ever since I was three years old – and now reside in Northern Virginia. There is much that has been written about the way domestic help is treated which is very true.
We are presently in Kerala, where we own a flat, for three months – just getting away from the winter in the US. We are constantly cautioned by everyone here that servants are untrustworthy, don’t work hard, take advantage of their employers, etc. They also complain about how it is impossible to get good help. All I can say is that we have found a decent woman who takes care of most of our needs and does it at a salary that is about equal to the market rate. We do treat her well and if there is no more to do then we tell her to go home. This surprises some of the people here who feel that we should keep her busy all the time no matter what.
My brother and his wife also have a place in Kovalam, Kerala – by the sea – and they have had the same woman taking care of domestic chores for the past seven years. Never been an issue with her or her family. But they also treat her/her family well, compensate her fairly and don’t feel that they own her because they pay her.
Is it coincidence that we have both been able to find good help in a state where everyone complains it is impossible to get reliable domestic help? I think not – though relatives and neighbors who hear of our experience here feel that we just lucked out. We rarely come across anyone here who will say they have good help and are happy with their work. OTOH, I cannot count the number of times we have been told all of the failings of domestic help here.
We are presently in Kerala, where we own a flat, for three months – just getting away from the winter in the US. We are constantly cautioned by everyone here that servants are untrustworthy, don’t work hard, take advantage of their employers, etc. They also complain about how it is impossible to get good help. All I can say is that we have found a decent woman who takes care of most of our needs and does it at a salary that is about equal to the market rate. We do treat her well and if there is no more to do then we tell her to go home. This surprises some of the people here who feel that we should keep her busy all the time no matter what.
At first I had to reread your full post to realize you were talking about Kerala. We have the same situation right here in NY – you would not believe the comments that we get about the fact that we treat our help well and pay her a decent wage. One woman actually said “you’re ruining it for everyone else”. This person won’t let her babysitter be alone with ours – doesn’t want them talking, for obvious reasons.
I have criticised my own NRI family members for arguing with auto-riksha guys in India over 10 rupees…many people feel it’s the principle, that they don’t want to feel that they’re getting ripped off…but the way I see it, even if the guy rips you off by 50 rupees and thinks you’re a jackass American for falling for it, it’s still peanuts in US terms and not worth getting into a heated argument over (although the way the dollar is going…)
One of my friends, who grew up in America but can speak Punjabi like he never left his pind, and is very culturally attuned to all things desi, will sit there bargaining a price for an auto-ricksha ride until he gets it down to within 5 rupees of what he thinks is fair…and then he’ll go splurge on custom-tailored suits and other things. I’m not saying I’m perfect or don’t do wrong things in life, but I think there’s something wrong with that picture. He says it’s the principle but I think it boils down to what notsoyoungdesi (#280) described..this feeling many middle and upper class people in India have that everyone is an asshole and intent on deceitfully robbing them of their money. That being said, many people in India ARE intent on ripping you off…but I think you have to pick your battles.
This problem would be solved if there was no bargaining, just fixed prices for everything.
attempted collusion. anti-trust violation.
PingPong, are you the creator of steve sailer sucks?
I think it would actually be cooler to be on his mailing list, what with the all the rubbing of digital elbows you could do with Steven Pinker and co.
Similar ( maybe less cruel ) mistreatment of maids do happen a lot in India.
Since I also find arrogant display of wealth and aberration of religion ( people donating millions to temples like Tirupati when there are so many people in poverty all around ), I feel many rich Indians are so dense that they will even bargain with god.
Huh? No, I’d never even heard of that blog until I read your comment. But I’ve had a low opinion of VDARE for a while – a discussion on immigration is necessary, but equating “American” with “white” and treating everyone else as a temporary visitor is counterproductive. For a site ostensibly focused on anti-immigration issues, Peter Brimelow (himself an immigrant via UK & Canada) has spent a lot of time worrying that his kids would grow up in a non-white US. Trying to justify this xenophobia by saying that immigrants have low IQ is worse. Remember this story about South Asians’ low IQ?
Hee hee. I wonder if Razib blogged that one. After all, it’s Rushton, it must be scientific. His predictions have come true already–just look at the Sabhnanis. After all, Americans don’t keep slaves (as someone quoted from VDARE up above).
A summary of the trial can be found at:
http://www.newsday.com/services/newspaper/printedition/sunday/news/ny-bznote235512530dec23,0,2517802.story
I found the part about the store-brand bread particularly ridiculous and typical.
PingPong, are you the creator of steve sailer sucks?
I am a regular reader of Steve Sailer though I dont care for his race/genetics stuff and hysterics on immigration. I love his attacks on the Neo-Cons. Sailer along with Buchannan and other Paleo-Cons are not that bad when it comes to Neo-Cons. Check out the cover in the latest edition of the American Conservative. Priceless and it also got a big amen from me.
Oh i got your original point, i just failed to put a half-smiley face up after the question. I’m no fan of Steve Sailer, probably because I’m not a proponent of the idea that the good ideas one has are hermetically sealed away from the very bad ideas–remembering that Sailer’s views on immigration and race are informed by the same data sets and convictions as his broadsides against some conservatives.
pagal_aadmi_for_debauchery
I read the Desch article about Giuliani and his advisors in AmConMag–pretty good, however the magazine’s regular readers will probably start shaking their head at the first mention of the PLO that was not accompanied by the disclaimer, “dirty, filthy, intrinsically violent A-Rabs with whom no negotiation is possible.”
I do not care to wade into the Flynn vs. Rushton/Gotfredsson/Sailer/Saletan(?) argument without another lifetime to study the relevant material and become an expert.
I thought that these kinds of things were only practiced by Saudis, certain other groups of Muslims, and the Russian and Colombian mafias. They are a disgrace to America, a disgrace to India, a disgrace to Hinduism, and a disgrace to humanity.
On second thought I am not 100% surprised. It happens all the time, everywhere. It may commonplace in Saudi Arabia and other Muslim countries versus in civilized countries, but it is everywhere. And unfortunately it seems that some of India’s disrespect for laborers is ingrained in their traditions and was imported by these evil people.
Either way, let us all pray that they pay for eternity and beyond. And lets hope that the maids get a crack of that fortune because they deserve it.
I agree with dave somewhat just read that on yahoo,cant believe that living in this day n age it can happen in U.S
oh my good lord jesus!!! what a shame these indians have brought on us!!! how can someone be so cruel especially this women on women crime.. whats that all about?? i just hope that the “VULTURE LOOKING” couple be sentenced forever and be put in guantanamo bay where other prisoners can harras them back;front;up and down…. and every openeing possible…. peace!!!
All right folks, let’s keep it clean even if we’re discussing something dirty and awful. Thanks.