“…given up hiding and started to fight”

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October 31, 1984

“Mummy, Daddy can I dress up for Halloween this year?”

“No.  You are not allowed to participate in this ritual begging for candy.”

“Daddy, I meant for school…we’re supposed to…”

He eyed me suspiciously.  “I thought fifth grade would mean the end of such nonsense, but if you are supposed to…what do you need to wear”

I had thought about this.  Based on what the popular girls were last year, I decided…“I want to be a cheerleader!”

“Absolutely not.  Those skirts are indecent.”

“Caroline Auntie was a cheerleader!”

“In college.  When you’re in college, I’ll forbid you then, too.”

Nine-year old me promptly burst in to tears.  Later, my mother came to my room and helped me match a v-neck sweater from my old Catholic school uniform with a pleated skirt I usually wore to church—i.e. one which went to the middle of my knee.  She unpacked a box in my closet and wordlessly handed me my toy pom-poms.  My six-year old sister glared at her indignantly, so Mom rolled her eyes and did the same for her.  I was so excited.  Finally, a “cool” costume, one which didn’t involve an uncomfortable, weird-looking plastic mask to secure with an elastic band, from a pre-packaged ensemble.  I went to sleep feeling giddy.

The next morning, for the first time ever, I was tardy for school.  I don’t remember why, but I was.  When I walked in to class just before recess, everyone froze and stared at me.  The hopeful smile on my face dissolved; this year, the popular girls were all babies in cutesy pajamas with pacifiers around their necks.  I thought the weirdness in the air was due to my lame costume, but within a few minutes I discovered it was caused by something else entirely. 

The moment the bell rang, my desk was surrounded.  This couldn’t be good.  Was I going to get locked in a closet or a bathroom again? 

“Why are you here?”
“Yeah, we thought you weren’t coming.”
“Shouldn’t you be at home crying?”
“Mrs.  Doyle said you wouldn’t come in today.”

The questions assaulted me one after the other.  I was baffled. 

"Why…would…Mrs. Doyle say that?” I stammered.

“DUH, because Gandhi’s daughter got killed.”
“Isn’t she like your queen or something?  Or a Hindu God?”
“No you buttheads, she’s like the president of her country.”

At the end of the last sentence, the boy speaking gestured towards me.  When did they get so enlightened?  Last week, they asked if I was Cherokee and said “How” whenever I walked by, or pantomimed yowling war cries with their hands and mouth.

“She’s not the president of my country.  I’m…I’m from this country.  My president is Ronald Reagan.”

They got impatient and vaguely hostile.

“No, you’re Indian.  Mrs. Doyle said you were in mourning.”
“Did you not like her or something, is that why you don’t care?”
“I heard they dip her in milk before they burn her up.”
“Duh…that’s because they worship cows.”

I put my head down on my desk, as if we were playing “heads up, seven up”.   

“See?  She’s crying now…she is Indian.”

And with that they walked off, to do whatever it was that popular fifth-graders did.

::

Spring 1987.

I was sitting by myself (as usual…it’s always awesome to transfer to a K-8 school in the seventh grade, when no one is interested in making new friends with some outsider), reading something from the “The Babysitters Club”, pretending I was Mary Anne Spier.

“Hey ugly girl…”

I looked up to see a tall 8th grader whom every girl was crushing on…he was standing with his best friend, who elbowed him and muttered, “ask her!”

“Weren’t you supposed to be aborted?

I was horrified and confused.  Horrified because these people never talked to me, confused because…

“You know, since you’re like…a Hindu and we just learned that they only like to have sons.  So we were wondering if your parents wished they had aborted you. You should ask.”

The sidekick started guffawing and both of them ran off.  I sat there, my book still page-down in my lap, unable to read for the rest of recess.  I wished I could go home.

Four hours later…

“Where is your sister?  What is she up to?  I haven’t heard any noise.”

“I dunno…reading the dictionary or something nerdy”. 

I realized my father was headed to the dining room, which is where he left the huge, so-heavy-I-couldn’t-lift-it Webster’s dictionary open for me, so he wouldn’t have to constantly retrieve it from the shelf.  I slapped half the book over, to obscure what I had been looking at…

“What are you doing?  Why did you just do that?  What are you hiding?”

“Um, nothing.”

I tried to slip my finger out from the page I was trying to bookmark, but he was too quick.  The pages flipped back to “A”.

“ABORTION?  You are looking at ABORTION?  Oh my God, why did I sacrifice and struggle and come to this country, so my 12-year old daughter could be impregnated?  Were you raped?  Did someone do something to you? WHY ARE YOU LOOKING AT THAT WORD!”

I actually didn’t know what “raped” meant, either.  My parents hadn’t explained anything like that to me yet.  I was still playing with Barbie and sleeping with my stuffed Persian cat; they saw no need.  I made a mental note to look up “rape”.

My mother came running, “What is this?”

“She is looking at ABORTION!”

“Why?”

“Was I supposed to be aborted?”

My parents faces fell slack from astonishment.

My Mother looked at my Father, then me.  “Why…would…you…ask…such a thing?”

“Some kids at school asked me to ask you if you wished you had aborted me.  I didn’t know what that meant…”

My Father walked away.  My Mother came up to me, looked me in the eye and said, “No.  We did not wish that.  Your Father was very excited, in fact, he always said he hoped you would turn out to be a girl and he was so happy you did.”

My Mother seemed sad.  “You don’t like your new school, do you?”

I shook my head, no.

::

Fall 1989.

“Class, today we are going to do something a bit different—we’re going to look at Catholicism’s impact on the world.”

I tried not to smirk as I recalled my Father’s rants about how Catholicism destroyed things and was rather evil.   

“We’re going to start with India, which is where Anna is from!”

Uh…

“One of the most visible Catholics in the world has chosen India, to serve.  Mother Theresa uses her faith to care for the filthy, the neglected, the unfortunate…”

Oh, sweet Jesus.

“…let’s start our discussion by asking our Indian student more!”

“Um, I’m American.”

“Yes, dear.  But you’re Indian.  What’s India like?”

“I’m just saying, I was born here, so I don’t really know—“

“Now, let’s not fib…I now for a fact you just came back from your country.”

“Well…um…yes, but it’s my parents’ country…no, wait, even they are American citizens.” 

The nun was getting impatient. “May I remind you that discussion counts for your participation grade?  Now would you like to add something constructive to this conversation?”

“Uh…sure.  Well, I did just get back from India.  I had not visited it since I was five, so I learned a lot.”  The nun nodded, with an encouraging smile.

“And tell us about the poverty you saw, the contrasts with America.”

“I…didn’t see poverty really…”

“Calcutta is very impoverished!  How is that possible?”

“I went to Kerala.  I’ve never been to Calcutta.  I’m from South India.  I went to where my parents are from and visited their families.  And Kerala is lush and green and so pretty.  The people are all really smart and the museum I went to—“

“How far is Careluh from Calcutta?”

“It’s really far.”

“So far that you didn’t see beggars?”

“I saw a few…”

“JUST a few?”

“No more than I see when I visit San Francisco.”

“That’s it young lady.  I will not tolerate your smart-aleck behavior.  To the principal’s office you will go and you’ll have detention, later.”

“But I didn’t…”

“Would you like me to double your punishment?”

I nodded miserably and walked out, reaching in to my backpack for my headphones.  Reel Life’s “Send Me an Angel” accompanied me as I dawdled on my way to the office. 

::

I thought of all of those moments, yesterday.  I’ll get to why in a mere moment. 

Besides my younger sibling, I was the only Indian kid at all of my schools except for the last one I cited. Obviously, my little sister did not accompany me to high school, but there was one other Indian girl there. Unfortunately, she wanted nothing to do with  me, because she couldn’t relate to me; she told me I wasn’t Indian enough, that I was white-washed. 

I was South Indian and Christian, I didn’t do garba or understand what she was talking about when she asked me about whether I preferred Salwars to lenghas–in fact, I didn’t even know what a lengha was…just like I was clueless about which Bollywood actor I should have a crush on. Once she realized that I had no experience with such things, she decided she had no use for me.  We didn’t speak, despite sitting next to each other, in home room.

This is now a well-known tale, this trial-by-ignorance which older 1.5/second gens went through.  I am amazed and relieved when I understand that things will never be that brutal for generation 3, not in this world where the internet sates curiosity while dissolving international borders and knitting us all together via the web. 

India is no longer so weird or foreign; today, people don’t eat monkey brains on the big screen. The little ABDs I’ve met recently who are nine, 12 and 14 are informed, empowered, righteous and sassy.  Once upon a time, if you had told me that girls in this country would wear lenghas and saris to their Junior Prom or in their Senior portrait, I would have thought you were a bad comedian.  I would have and did wear Gunne Sax, to both, way back in the early 90s.

::

I often say that I didn’t become a desi until my final year of college, which is when the ISA was allowed back on campus; nothing like “India Night” to give you a concentrated dose of culture. By the time I commenced my second semester of graduate school, in 2000, I had crossed over in to what felt like another realm—for the first time, the majority of my friends were brown. That was life-altering for a girl who lived through the three childhood situations I started this post with. The more people I met from abroad, the more I experienced, and the more I changed.

I had taken plenty of South Asian studies classes as an undergrad, but going to a hyper-International school like GW was like getting the practical experience to complement years of theory. Now, I have a rich, self-defined relationship with the subcontinent, a relationship which I’m so immersed in, it confuses and vaguely irritates my parent. She shakes her head when she catches me reading “Learn Malayalam in 30 days” or when she overhears me interrogating my cherished, fobulous friends about everything I don’t know (which is obviously a LOT).

The end result of all this is that though I’m not from India, now, I am of it. I love it, but not blindly. I celebrate it, but I don’t do so because of inherited jingoism. India is like a family member; I will bitch about it and worry and criticize…but heaven help someone else who attempts to do so in my presence. I know I have annoyed and even enraged some of you with some of my posts; some of you have accused me of being anti-India, when that is the furthest thing from reality. “I love my India”, I’ve written cheekily a few times at the Mutiny. Once, one of you pushed back; “What does that even mean? How is it YOURS?”

It’s mine because it just is, because I want it to be and also, because for my entire childhood, I felt like I was being thrown in to a deep well by my classmates, in an extreme act of othering. My sole company? No, not my Baby-sitters Club or Cheerleaders books—it was my ancestral country, which had been roughed up along side of me, before being tossed in the pit after me.

Once, when I couldn’t take the torment meted out to me, I burst in to tears in front of my Father and told him that I hated my uber-competitive, ultra-bitchy high school, where uniforms which were meant to equalize were an ineffective joke played on girls who didn’t have Dooney and Bourke backpacks, Gucci purses or polo players on their shirts and socks. I wailed that I was miserable, that I hated sticking out like the stench of patchouli in a room full of Chanel, that I didn’t fit in anywhere, especially with thick, long hair which reached the backs of my knees. “Where am I supposed to go? Where will people be nice to me?”

For once, instead of dismissing me or mocking me, he looked lost in thought, before he murmured, “India”.

Later that summer, we visited Ooty, another boarding school I can’t remember and two private high schools, one in Kottayam, the other in Cochin. Though I had hated India the first week I was there, after being terrorized by insects which looked like they had been imported from my nightmares, finding myself mired in a decades-old family feud and realizing, to my hostile resentment, that no, Indian girls did NOT have hair so long that they could sit on it, that I was the only naïve moron who lived up to that now passé ideal…I eventually calmed down.

Two weeks in to our two-month long trip, I was fluent again in my first language, Malayalam, and after my first month in Kerala, whatever resistance I felt to this strange new reality melted. I felt a peace I had never known before, because for the first time in my life, everyone looked like me, worshipped where I did and ate what I ate. I was enchanted and fine with staying; I daydreamed about waving to my father and sister at the airport in Madras, before being whisked back to Kerala by either my Dad’s elder brother or his beloved best friend.

My father realized that he couldn’t bear to leave me on the other side of the world, and that was the end of that. I returned to the U.S., to nuns who loathed non-Catholic, uncooperative me, to girls who yanked open my cardigan so that they could exclaim, “OMG, she’s still poor!” when they saw no logo prancing across my breast, to once again being exiled and alone. Daddy was troubled. Had he been selfish? “You know, you can always go to India. In a way, it will always be your home. If you are fed up…you could go back. You have that option. You are not rootless. I know you were happy, there…”

So, to me, India has always been synonymous with sanctuary. A naïve sentiment, I know, but also, a necessary fiction; it helped me survive.

How could I disparage my refuge, my roots? And could I stand by idly, when, on a popular blog, India was repeatedly tarnished?

::

Jezebel is part of Gawker’s online empire. Its tagline is Celebrity, Sex, Fashion. Without the airbrushing. When I stumbled upon it, it was love at first browse. It was smart, defiant and allergic to bullshit. It was fierce. For the first time, in many, many years, I felt like I had found the successor to Sassy, the legendary teen magazine which saved my sanity in a “YM” world. And who were these commenters?! These women who were righteous, bawdy, witty and often, hilarious? This was like the best of my sorority years, with none of the annoying idocratic declarations or pesky monthly dues. After weeks of lurking, I wanted to dive in this rollicking online hot tub…but there was one catch: you had to audition to comment!

Audition to become a commenter. To become a registered commenter on this site, you first need to be approved by our team. We’re looking for comments that are interesting, substantial or highly amusing. So write a comment, polish up your words and choose a username and password below. Your comment will only appear once (or if) you’re approved. Want to know more? Consult the Comment FAQ. [Jezebel]

I submitted my thoughts and then spent an anxious day or so wondering if I’d be deemed worthy; a few hours in to the weirdness, I realized exactly what it reminded me of—the end of sorority rush, when you make your choice and then sleeplessly wait for a bid. When my comment finally appeared on the site, I cackled triumphantly. YES! I was allowed in! I was a part of the coolest clique ever, the anti-clique, which called out anyone and everything. This was AWESOME.

Except…I started to see references to India, in their news roundups and then comments, which would inevitably refer back to the brown element of the post…and unlike the rest of the Jezebel experience…they were less than…fair. Sometimes, they were downright ignorant. Worse still, the female bloggers whom I had been crushing on pretty heavily seemed to not get it; sometimes, it seemed as if they were encouraging the ick. I have to tell you, it really did feel like being a teen all over again, right down to the confusion, the angst and the anticipation of exile.

Does that seem melodramatic ? It’s not, to me. I spend all my time here, at SM. Like a new, stay-at-home mother who is starved for “grown-up” conversation, i.e. that which does not involve poo or puking, I wanted more (and please, no stupid conflation of poo/puke/infancy with SM…sometimes, a cigar is just a cigar and a metaphor is, too.) Unfortunately, my source for what I had craved seemed less than welcoming.

And here’s where it gets all afterschool special; would I quietly observe the unfair digs at my “sanctuary” and remain mute, to protect my coveted place in that Jezebel-space? Or would I do what I was aching to—speak my mind, at the risk of alienating the popular and powerful? Yeah, you know how this turns out…

Indian actress Shilpa Shetty has been arrested at the Mumbai, India airport. Her crime? Obscenity. The act? Being the recipient of that overly demonstrative kidd on the cheek from Richard Gere. [Daily Mail] 12:45 PM ON THU SEP 27 2007 BY JENNIFER. 1,428 views
BY WARMAIDEN AT 09/27/07 12:58 PM This takes ‘blaming the victim’ to a whole ‘nother level. yay, India! (PS – Shouldn’t they be hanging those guys who drugged and raped the Japanese touristas?)
BY LOVESTOSMILE AT 09/27/07 01:03 PM My lord. I’m Indian and this is absolutely embarassing.
BY LOVESTOSMILE AT 09/27/07 01:11 PM As someone who’s Indian, I can say with all confidence that this is a matter of national shame.
BY ANDALUCíA AT 09/27/07 01:11 PM @LovesToSmile: I’m American. We won the Embarrassment Sweepstakes years ago.
BY RAINBOWBRITE AT 09/27/07 01:12 PM You’d think India would be trying to look a little more progressive these days. That “India at 60” campaign is everywhere here in NY, but stories like this one don’t really help their tourism…
BY SARAHINSASK AT 09/27/07 01:13 PM What a disgusting, filthy crime. Right? Right? Clearly India has no heinous criminal at large than Shilpa Shetty.
BY AHWANNABE AT 09/27/07 01:14 PM lovely country we’re outsourcing work to.
BY HABIBI AT 09/27/07 01:16 PM Jennifer, fix the typo – India is spelled “India” and not “Indnia”. Since when is getting a kiss on the cheek a crime? The Indian government should be embarrassed by this.
BY ANNOYINGFEMALELEADVOICEOVER AT 09/27/07 01:16 PM She was let go as soon as the cops realized the charges had been turned over months ago. Not that this justifies the act, but for a heads up.
BY CHOCOLATECOFFEEBEANS AT 09/27/07 01:30 PMIt is things like this that make me completelly terrified to travel to the Middle East at all, even though I consider myself relatively well-travelled. This combined with stories of getting hands cut off for stealing (not that I would steal) or the weird rules about things like alcohol and women’s dress. I just know it would take me approximately 15 minutes before I broke a law or offended someone. No thanks.

BY SUITABLEGIRL AT 09/27/07 02:32 PM @ahwannabe: Yes, let’s bring outsourcing in to this, it’s obviously germane. One tiny reminder: we should also bring it up when Canada or Ireland or every other country we outsource to gets brought up in any context whatsoever– that way we’re consistent.

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She wasn’t arrested, she was detained by some idiot on a power trip (not rare in India). This is not a matter of national shame, not when there are a million worse problems in the subcontinent. Is it stupid? Yes. Should this have happened? No. But let’s not go overboard, even though it is *so* fun and satisfying to snark at those unenlightened, job-stealing misogynists.

BY SUITABLEGIRL AT 09/27/07 02:34 PM @CHOCOLATECOFFEEBEANS: Right, except India is not in the Middle East. And as flawed as it is, its hassles are a far cry from Saudi Arabia, which is what you’re comparing it to.
BY SPECTATERTOT AT 09/27/07 02:40 PM @LovesToSmile: ditto (on being indian and finding this embarassing)
BY CHOCOLATECOFFEEBEANS AT 09/27/07 03:32 PM Ya know, I realized what I had said right after I posted it. I do realize India is not the “Middle East” but as has been mentioned, it is the crazy mix of government and religion that is a common thread to a lot of these countries and I would just not feel comfortable, and would be terrified of doing something wrong.
BY NARYMARY AT 09/27/07 04:10 PM This is really sad. I hope nothing awful happens to her!
BY NIGERIENNE AT 09/27/07 04:34 PM Way to set India back more than the people of Dell.

BY AHWANNABE AT 09/27/07 05:18 PM @Suitablegirl: AFAIK, Canada and Ireland have human rights laws that are at least somewhat similar to the ones we have in the good ole USA, so if the fat cats want to oursource there because it’s cheaper, can’t argue with that.

What I take offense to is when our fat cats outsource jobs to countries where this kind of abuse is considered okay, when we have LAWS in place to prevent it from happening here. That is the height of hypocrisy, and yes I will continue to bring up the subject of outsourcing until I’m blue in the face, or people get a clue.

BY SFIKUS AT 09/27/07 06:41 PM @Suitablegirl: “She wasn’t arrested, she was detained by some idiot on a power trip (not rare in India). This is not a matter of national shame, not when there are a million worse problems in the subcontinent.”

– Were she not Shilpa Shetty, and considered a bit of a national treasure, she could have faced a whole trove of other pleasures reserved for women in India – acid, stoning, etc. Yes, after all the sabre rattling, she was let off easily, but I think much of her reported reaction was compounded by her knowledge of what _could_ have happened…

BY SUITABLEGIRL AT 01:40 AM

@narymary: I think she’ll be okay.

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@sfikus: Were she not Shilpa Shetty, Richard Gere wouldn’t have kissed her…I think it’s a bit much to call her a national treasure, but hey, I also think it’s a bit much to paint this dire, sensational picture of a country which has issues– just like other countries. The horror is everywhere, India doesn’t have a monopoly on it– to me, misogyny is global.

I’m bemused that I am now in this bizarre situation where I stick up for a country I normally criticize righteously.

Want to call India out on something? How about gender-selective abortions, that I’ll agree is an India-specific problem. But acid? Double standards about women who are public figures/tabloids rushing to fan flames? Pot, kettle. As for stoning, again, that’s more of a Taliban penalty for adultery, not an “Indian” one; my concern throughout this thread has been exactly that sort of conflation. India is by no means perfect– but it doesn’t deserve to be painted by such a broad, ugly brush.

“a whole trove of other pleasures reserved for women in India – acid, stoning, etc.”

I was drawn to this site because I loved the fierce women who were creative, free-thinkers…but I’m chagrined to see less thinking and more reacting here. India is a subcontinent, with an amazing range of cultures, traditions, people…my parents came from a state with a matrilineal tradition, but that’s not part of the “India” caricature, so no one knows or wants to acknowledge that. I get sad when I see intelligent, otherwise tolerant women engage in reductionist stereotyping which minimizes and demeans.

Sorry for the extra-long comment. I’m new here, I want to make sure I articulate my position well, because that’s how much I respect this space.

Sigh. My inner teen is currently vaguely miserable. I thought I had discovered this amazing group of girls to hang out with, every day (and you know how difficult that is to do after college!), but perhaps I was so desperate to belong, I didn’t consider the totality of what I was coveting. Worst of all, why were the other two brown Jezebels okay with this? Was I wrong to be hurt on behalf of a country I had never even lived in?

That’s what really bothered me– I was the only one who was not echoing the chorus and following the mood; the choice of the other two desis, to toe some stupid line was like NaCl in my wound. Now it REALLY felt like high school. Is this how it is? You have to kowtow to be welcome? Unfortunately for me, I couldn’t do that the first time I was required to, back in 1988. I’m supposed to find it within me to do so NOW, two decades later? Perhaps I’m wrong about my orientation and I’m not a Jezbian after all.

The prospect of that is depressing. As much as I love my sepia baby, it’s nice to get out and do more than mother (and smother). The last time I tried to get in to a sorority, I was surrounded by people who were often clueless and thus, unintentionally hurtful; at least at the DG house they were essentially oblivious, what hurts the most here is that these women are aware, that they know a little something about India. But it’s just like what my Mom always says (especially after meeting a patient who has become “empowered” with drug or other info via WebMD, who is helpfully clutching a printout of such): a little bit of knowledge can be very dangerous. For the first time, ever, I wonder if it’s better to be ignorant about some things.

445 thoughts on ““…given up hiding and started to fight””

  1. “dravidian lurker,

    man you can’t be that funny and actually expect any of us to come up with thought-provoking statements that will make HMF less of a misogynistic NOI admirer.”

    The response should have cut off at the bold.

    but I think it’s perfectly appropriate to discuss the concept of white privilege without everyone blowing things into a white privilege == reverse racism == you hate white people

    Camille, you are exactly correct here, not only that, it’s a perfect illustration of the power of white privilege, by any mention of it being relegated to a blanket hatred of white people.

  2. Kalyan was born and raised in Durban… director Lance Samuels Yep, an Indian-descent South African non-Muslim plays a Pakistani Muslim named “Raja”. Inauthenticity at it’s finest.

    Please allow me to quote one of my favorite characters

    “Yeah and Hillary Swank has a vagina and she won an Oscar for pretending she had a d*ck. That’s what actors do they pretend.”

  3. Here’s a news flash: There are a LOT of desis who don’t grow up in class privilege and who don’t go on to become “white” or “privileged professionals.”

    You know, I thought of bringing this up in some of my comments earlier but refrained at the last minute…but yes I would agree that desis from underprivileged backgrounds DO face racism in this country. And that does apply to a lot of Sikhs, Gujjus, and Pakistanis/Bangladeshis in the American context. But I also think the professional, educated 2nd gen ‘yuppie’ desis (of any desi background) who are living lives that 99% of Whites would die for, should shut up about racism. The exception might be turbanned Sikhs, who face some racism no matter what their socio-economic status.

  4. “Yeah and Hillary Swank has a vagina and she won an Oscar for pretending she had a d*ck. That’s what actors do they pretend.”

    Yep. A foolproof formula for winning Oscars is to pretend to be something you’re clearly not. It was clearly one of the greatest tragedies in movie history that John Wayne didn’t win an Oscar for playing Genghis Khan in The Conqueror. I’m going to win an Oscar by playing the role of a 14-year old girl in the next Disney musical that comes along. Compared to Genghis “Pilgrim” Khan, this Kalyan guy playing a South Asian is not even close to being a noteworthy miscast.

  5. but I think it’s perfectly appropriate to discuss the concept of white privilege without everyone blowing things into a white privilege == reverse racism == you hate white people

    only after veering off the liberal plantaion doesn’t result in the UT smear. pots and kettles.

  6. reading this thread while watching clarence thomas on 60 mins last night was surreal, especially since this post was about experincing racism masquerading as liberal concern.

    it is a high-tech lynching for uppity blacks who in any way deign to think for themselves, to do for themselves, to have different ideas, and it is a message that unless you kowtow to an old order, this is what will happen to you. You will be lynched, destroyed, caricatured by a committee of the US Senate rather than hung from a tree.

  7. wait, wait i thought this board liked discussions of white privilege. perhaps a new set of commenters has come online.

  8. only after veering off the liberal plantaion doesn’t result in the UT smear.

    Thers a difference between veering and doing a donut.

  9. But I also think the professional, educated 2nd gen ‘yuppie’ desis (of any desi background) who are living lives that 99% of Whites would die for, should shut up about racism

    i don’t understand why – this assumes that people are unable to consider different levels of racism. sure, certain desis might not have experienced racism in a form that has held them back socio-economically, but does it mean that they shouldn’t say anything because they’re well-off, even if they are made to feel inferior? i won’t even argue whether or not racism affecting socio-economic status is ‘more’ racist than forms that do not – but i don’t see how the other form does not also warrant speaking up. if it did not so warrant, it means that we all would have given up on eradicating racism completely – and even if we never get close, i think it should still be a goal…

  10. 249 · Camille Here’s a news flash: There are a LOT of desis who don’t grow up in class privilege and who don’t go on to become “white” or “privileged professionals.” I’m not arguing that they’re the majority, but please exercise some critical analysis and refrain from attributing your analysis as the only legitimate viewpoint within a diverse, varied, and hetereogenous community.

    Camille, In some sense, you are correct. But, in terms of political organizing, any “group” that celebrates its “diversity, variety and heterogeneity” is hardly going to accomplish much qua group, no? Maybe this is the right outcome, anyway, but I’m just saying, if some of us want to get together and lobby, qua desi, for, say, free trade, or more H1B visas, or whatever, talking about desi diversity and how some desi farmer in the central valley of california is harmed by free trade or whatever (I exaggerate for the point of … making my point!) is hardly going to slow us, no? Nor, I think, should it.

  11. murali, I think its unuseful for any of us to try to claim an authoritative voice on race. Race is a dynamic concept in the U.S., and while I think we can still draw an analysis, I don’t think we should automatically denigrate each other’s views by trying to “out trump” each other on experience. That’s all I’m saying 🙂

    Amitabh, maybe this experience depends on where you live, as well. I meet plenty of “professional/privileged” ABDs who get shat on race-wise. Their experiences (with race) are not always so different from the experiences of lower SES desis. I’ve certainly met kids who have been beaten up or physically attacked for being brown, and this included in downtown/urban areas as well as on college campuses. I’m with ak on this one — I don’t think it’s fair to relegate one experience as “justified” or “authentic” and another as inauthentic. Beyond that, I also think that by focusing on our individual experiences we lose the forest for the trees. Race-based disadvantage has a larger, more subtle dynamic. I think we also have to recognize that a big factor in why some communities/subcommunities have advanced is directly tied to U.S. immigration policy which is certainly an inorganic construct.

    rob, I think we can be diverse and still organize together. Part of this is being able to identify cross-community issues and being willing to take a step forward even if we don’t see a direct connection (albeit perhaps an indirect one). I actually think the hardest kind of community organizing, next to cross-cultural organizing, is cross-class organizing.

  12. Oh, and just to clarify, I think it’s great that folks are sharing their experiences and viewpoints, and I also think it’s exciting to read all the different perspectives/takes on things. What was frustrating me is the overuse of the “privileged desis are white” rhetoric as a means of trying to shut down the conversation or to demean one another’s views.

  13. it is a high-tech lynching for uppity blacks who in any way deign to think for themselves, to do for themselves, to have different ideas, and it is a message that unless you kowtow to an old order, this is what will happen to you. You will be lynched, destroyed, caricatured by a committee of the US Senate rather than hung from a tree.

    Well one way to avoid high tech lynching would be to stop leaving your unsolicited pubic hair on the coke cans of your staff 🙂 Speaking of the high-tech lynching, I had dinner with the guy who prepped Anita Hill for the Senate hearings. Riveting stuff.

  14. reading this thread while watching clarence thomas on 60 mins last night was surreal, especially since this post was about experincing racism masquerading as liberal concern.

    Are you saying that had Thomas been white his outcome would have been different?

  15. it is a high-tech lynching for uppity blacks who in any way deign to think for themselves, to do for themselves, to have different ideas, and it is a message that unless you kowtow to an old order, this is what will happen to you. You will be lynched, destroyed, caricatured by a committee of the US Senate rather than hung from a tree.

    Was Anita Hill an uppity black? Did she get a high-tech lynching?

  16. Reading through anna’s post makes me wonder how things will turn out for my offspring. Boy or girl I ll be teaching them to physically fight.

    To the ABD folks – did you tell your parents about the hard times you faced in school. Was it common to fight in the school yard. did your parents encourage you to fight or fold?

  17. But nevertheless Wise is a white comfort to any downtrodden person of color who feels his predicament in America has nothing to do with himself.

    The first step to empowerment is to take complete responsibility for one’s life. Anyone who tells you any different is trying to disempower you to keep you down. Don’t fall for it.

  18. Are you saying that had Thomas been white his outcome would have been different?

    at that time in history, this would’ve never happened to a black or white liberal. as the feminist response to legitimate sexual harassment and rape accusations against bill clinton proves.

  20. Was Anita Hill an uppity black? Did she get a high-tech lynching?

    i believed anita hill. can’t prove it, but i believed her. should’ve been handled in a court of law, not a kangaroo court. if thomas is telling the truth i don’t blame him for calling it a high-tech lynching. if hill is telling the truth, i don’t blame her for benefiting from a racist stereotype.

    but either way, the fact is this racial bullying has relegated the world most failed ideologies to POC. thank god india is breaking those shackles as we speak.

  21. I’m watching “White Boys in the Hood” on Showtime right now. Ever see that?

    White comedians take on a predominantly black audience. The jokes are highly un-politically correct and everyone and their mother is stereotyped. The black audience loves it, especially the stereotypes of whites and blacks. But they don’t stop at white and black, the go after Mexicans, Jews, Arabs, Indians, everyone.

    One joke; “Terrorists really got a sense of humour. They bomb America on 9/11 and then they bomb India on 7/11 which is where the Indians end up working when they come to America.”

  22. One joke; “Terrorists really got a sense of humour. They bomb America on 9/11 and then they bomb India on 7/11 which is where the Indians end up working when they come to America.”

    Race and political correctness apart, this is a really unfunny joke. Reminds of what South Park says about Family Guy does episodes: string together unrelated words with no attention to meaning or context, and you get a joke. This one? 7/11, India, America and terrorist: voila, you get the joke above.

    Given Indians, Americans and terrorists (all very “funny” by their own right as well) and the billion (no maybe 1.5 billion?) ways to poke fun at them, all the comedian got was this? I am pretty sure the comedian is not very successful :).

  24. well, this has turned to be a discussion of sorts, so I should at least comment on some of the posts:

    @Sari Virgin on September 28, 2007 07:01 PM · Amal, I can’t speak for all the other gori Americans, but after hearing you spew, I do know of one immigrant I wish would go home. On the other hand, Torpedo, please stay. That is all.

    you are a gori, as I see in your post. Maybe I should remind you that long back native americans (red indians) probably wished that your great great great grandfather would go home too. I have come here obeying this country’s laws, I am staying here obeying this country’s laws, and I am paying my taxes. This is not some racist airplane that you can ask me to get out just because my comments on how some of your fellow gora/goris behave makes you uncomfortable. If that what you think, Please speak the truth about your country. You can start by changing some words under the statue of liberty and constitution.

    Torpedo should be happy now, a gori, real, authentic gori, has given him her stamp of approval to stay. Life made! 🙂

    @ Chaitan: And the kids start fighting on this post already in less than 10 comments … hmmm …

    it makes you feel all grownup and pompous to comment this way right?

    @ Sari Virgin on September 28, 2007 07:41 PM · Direct link Hi Runa,

    No, in real life I’ve never told an immigrant to “go home”. But, who am I to fight against Amal’s deeply held stereotypes of Euro-Americans? Anyway, I’m getting married to an immigrant, so I’m unlikely to be a particularly representative xenophobe.

    Please do not think that getting married to an immigrant makes you any liberal and gives you some kind of a license to deny all racism in your country. And why do you use ‘immigrant’ to denote/mean ‘ an immigrant who could be target to racism’, ie brown? You could be getting married to a swedish/french/german/english/russian, who would in all likelihood be never asked to go home ever. You might not have told an immigrant to go home, but you are of course not too sympathetic to anyone who protests your fellow goras’ behaviour. So please do not kid yourself about your liberalism.

    @sparky on September 28, 2007 09:11 PM :sari virgin, your frustration with that commenter is understandable

    ah, sparky, since you are so understanding to people, maybe you would be understanding to the brownies facing a lot of passive and often quite thinly veiled racism from goras. But I see that you have posted something like that in a later post.

    @30 · Ponniyin Selvan on September 28, 2007 09:21 PM : Now I understand why Bobby Jindal converted to Christianity.. I support him. 🙂

    no man, he converted to get some votes. he didnt because they saw through that.

    @delirium tremens on September 29, 2007 07:32 PM (this was a gay bar) (went hiking for 2 months on the appalachian trail)(I have been in this country for 8 years. I am a fob. I am not in IT) You are different. You are not one of those curry smelling, dark, moustachoid IT folks. You have been in this country looong time. Whites embrace you as their brother. We bow to you. You are soo up there. We accept that.

    Happy now?

    @ Tara Watabe on October 1, 2007 03:45 PM: Try being an overweight, working-class, “trailer trash” single mom who works two jobs and still needs food stamps to put 3 full meals on her kids tables. Then we can talk.

    why should anyone try? just why? Coming from a country where you have to work hard for opportunities, and a country with much less money, I believe the target of your comments got where she/she is through enough hard work. They do not owe anything to the fat single mom living in a trailer who is there partly/wholly because of her own choices. No thanks.

    Anyway –

    the way I see it, lot of folks have-this-sympathy/benefit-of-doubt/wanna-be-one-of thing for the gora amru. If a desi faces racism in this blessed land, it is somehow his/her fault, never the Saheb’s. What can I say, McAulay lives on. and it reminds me a lot of a baby-fox who thought he was a lion too.

    ANNA, let me suggest : when you have a family/kids, teach the kids that they are Indians who now live in this country. That they come, originally or otherwise, from a different language, culture, history. Teach them that they have an identity as an Indian, teach them that identity. Teach them not to mock that country. That it has its own ways, and they are just different, not dirty or yucky or any such. All that will give them the right perspective. Wish you luck.

    PS: There’s a bit on how to deal with this, in Jeffrey Archers The Prodigal Daughter. Very good advice, IMO.

  25. What utterances are you talking about? What has he said that’s controversial, or not backed up by fact? How about you back some of your bullsht up?”

    sir, I don’t worry too much about backing mine up because I’m not debating in an official sort of forum where there that would be necessary. Neither are you. I come here to share impressions, experiences and observations of an anecdotal nature. If you were debating seriously with people who disagree, as I have on occasion, you’d know what I’m talking about. Yes, HMF, there are valid counter-arguments, to Tim Wise’s statements and use of statistics. He has his points, they have their’s. Go into any debate well prepared, and I don’t mean in a shout-down contest. It has been my business to study various idealogues on the subject of social history/justice and frankly I dislike having to arm myself with slippery numbers and percentages, but I had to do the research. It’s obviously good that Wise defeated David Duke, but he is not the last word on the social state of America today. And by the way, some would resent your hijacking of black American history to define your condition. Whatever color you are, you are not–or at least have not identified yourself as such–a sub-Saharan African black person, descended from slaves brought to this hemisphere between 1600 and 1800. However, there’s no arguing with a True-Believer. Perhaps you are more honest than a Dinesh D’Souza, but beware the petrified brain.

  26. sir, I don’t worry too much about backing mine up because I’m not debating in an official sort of forum where there that would be necessary

    so it IS pull shit out of your ass day! At the very least you could provide evidence of “controversy” that you so boldly stated. In fact your identification of Tim Wise as a “60s uberliberal,” conjuring some image of him wearing a tye dye shirt someplace in berkeley shows your ineptitude and lack of knowledge regarding him. He’s from Tennessee, went to Vanderbilt, completely raised in the deep south. As culturally “redneck” as they come. Just a pioneering, smart, ahead-of-his time man.

    , HMF, there are valid counter-arguments, to Tim Wise’s statements and use of statistics.

    So then present them, or comment on them. I’ve read his debates with Jared Taylor, and in particular the one where he handed D’Souza his ass. Or don’t. and continue your homage to “talk out your ass-day” or I guess, week.

    And by the way, some would resent your hijacking of black American history to define your condition.Whatever color you are, you are not–or at least have not identified yourself as such–a sub-Saharan African black person, descended from slaves brought to this hemisphere between 1600 and 1800.

    and neither have I personally identified as such. Please point out where I have. In fact it was I who stated in other threads that’s it’s pure arrogance to think I could make statements on behalf of other’s who’s suffering and victimization by racism clearly exceeds mine, and it was my conservative counterparts who’ve stated otherwise:

    From my blog:

    “What I do know is this, after all I’ve read about black nationalism and the civil rights movement, I wouldn’t for a split second think I know what it’s like to share their experience or intuit their reality“

  27. I felt sad after reading your post. It is evident that all this meanness stems from ignorance, narrow mindedness and apathy for humankind. The positivity is that there were and are people like Mother Teresa in this world too, who do not let any man made barriers come between themselves and caring for others.

    ‘India is like a family member; I will bitch about it and worry and criticize…but heaven help someone else who attempts to do so in my presence.’

    My feelings exactly. Only the Indians have a right to criticize India.

  28. Boy or girl I ll be teaching them to physically fight.

    I think martial arts should be required learning for all children.

  29. “heads up, seven up”.

    small technical correction, I think the words are “heads down, thumbs up”

    “it was that popular fifth-graders did.”

    Usually it was listen to Guns’N’Roses and flaunt to the unpopular kids that they were popular, and knew what “bases” meant.

  32. small technical correction, I think the words are “heads down, thumbs up”

    That’s not what we called it/said. I wouldn’t have remembered it if it were named something logical like THAT.

  33. To the ABD folks – did you tell your parents about the hard times you faced in school. Was it common to fight in the school yard. did your parents encourage you to fight or fold?

    My parents were hellraisers. I usually didn’t tell them someone was bothering me unless it went really overboard; i.e. was physical or directly impacted my learning. I never got into a physical altercation, but that’s probably because I wore coke-bottle glasses and had braces. 🙂

    I think the best thing my parents did was continuously stand up for what they felt was right in education, but they also knew what was on the books (law-wise) re: discrimination in the classroom. I guess that was part of the benefit of it being a public school — it’s much easier to threaten legal action, which always seems to work.

    I forgot to say earlier that I think it’s interesting that India felt like a safe haven for you, ANNA, just because it’s so different from how I feel about India. It has never felt “safe” or comforting for my siblings or myself (despite the fact that I love visiting). Maybe part of this was because we were never taken to India as children — we all went as adults.

    I think whenever we faced really vitriolic instances of hate when we were younger we just felt orphaned. Here we were, in the country of our birth, continuously being told that we were not Americans and that we had no right to be here and then being viciously harassed. If we kept our heads down, we got harassed, if we excelled, we got harassed, and if we were mediocre, we got harassed. I think it took my brother and I a few years to realize that it had nothing to do with WHO we were, it had to do with WHAT we were. That said, we never felt like India was a place we could go — it was the “grandmotherland” (as we joked), not a refuge.

  34. . “He’s from Tennessee, went to Vanderbilt, completely raised in the deep south. As culturally “redneck” as they come…”

    I am well aware of his origins. He is in fact, not exactly your average “red-neck”, considering he says (unless he’s kidding) that he is Jewish–http://www.zmag.org/Sustainers/content/2000-08/29wise.htm. Jewish people are often very interested in social justice and identify with the underdog, due to their history of persecution and alienation. He is consistent about his sense of justice and seems to acknowledge the Palestinian cause.

    “Just a pioneering, smart, ahead-of-his time man.”

    Ahead of his time? Good grief, blaming most injustice on an elite class, which may or may not be designated by race, has dominated liberal discourse for most of the 20th century and even extends back into the 19th. It has informed socialism, communinism, and Christian socialism, nationalistic movements, and anti-imperialism. It is not all wrong. It has brought many injustices to light. Some personalities just express it in a way that grabs people. But these ideas hardly ahead of their time. They are very well within it–just don’t expect the average “elite” person to ever embrace their guilt fully. Most people are too self-protective for that.

    “In fact your identification of Tim Wise as a “60s uberliberal,” conjuring some image of him wearing a tye dye shirt someplace in berkeley shows your ineptitude and lack of knowledge regarding him…”

    Uberliberal is a state of mind, not a fashion statement. It’s as valid a term as, say, neo-con. I am neutral about it.

    “”so it IS pull shit out of your ass day!”

    Not sure what you’re sputtering about here. Something scatalogical apparently.

    “At the very least you could provide evidence of “controversy” that you so boldly stated.”

    um, no, thanks. Call me quirky, but something tells me that rational debate with you is just not in the cards. I haven’t drawn any firm conclusions on the whole race-in-America issue yet. Controversy just means there are differing opinions, and acknowledging that is not a “bold” statement, it is just a humble fact, and facts should not bother those whose minds are already made up.

  35. Given Indians, Americans and terrorists (all very “funny” by their own right as well) and the billion (no maybe 1.5 billion?) ways to poke fun at them, all the comedian got was this? I am pretty sure the comedian is not very successful :).

    The audience was laughing. It also had something to do with his delivery or his demeanor, even his look was funny. Forget his name though.

    >> why should anyone try? just why? Coming from a country where you have to work hard for opportunities, and a country with much less money, I believe the target of your comments got where she/she is through enough hard work. They do not owe anything to the fat single mom living in a trailer who is there partly/wholly because of *her own choices*. No thanks

    .

    “Try” is a verbal expression here meant to make a point. It means, “take into consideration the position of”, I’m not saying anyone here should quit their jobs, move into a trailer park and have kids. It’s an expression. So I see you do not believe in the welfare system. What about for poor black people living in the urban ghettos or rural areas? Should they also not be given any government assistance?

    So then what privelege does the single white trash mom have over the single black trash mom in today’s world?

    HMF

    Well for one, they get the benefit of the doubt in character assessment, “things haven’t gone her way”, how often do you hear people making statements on the “pathology of the white race” based on the single white trash mother? how often do you hear the opposite? It’s a very easy question you’ve asked, just look at any resource these two would be competing for and see on average which side of the bread the butter is on.

    HMF, I’m still waiting for you to give me something more than that a white girl’s mom might hide her embarassement by saying, “Katie’s a good girl, things just haven’t gone her way.”

    How are government assistance resources divided up between single black and single white mothers? Any numbers? Facts? Figures?

    ‘India is like a family member; I will bitch about it and worry and criticize…but heaven help someone else who attempts to do so in my presence.’ My feelings exactly. Only the Indians have a right to criticize India.

    So American Born Desis who have either never been to India or who have been there a few times on short trips have a right to criticise India? Is that what you are saying? Or are you saying only people who were born and bred there have a right? What about people who are not Indian but live and work in India, do they have a right?

  36. So American Born Desis who have either never been to India or who have been there a few times on short trips have a right to criticise India?

    Easy, there. Tara Watabe, it is clear that you are very passionate (who can forget your forceful, enthusiastic endorsement of Landmark, when you were named “Carlita”) but please, note that what you are trying to convey doesn’t always come through effectively. I don’t want to shut down this thread because it turns in to a who is more “Indian” pissing contest.

    Speaking of “Carlita”, we ban for switching handles on the same thread. Please play by the rules and stick with one identity within this discussion.

  37. Understand. However, I still think it’s a valid question. Does one have to be born and bred in a country in order to offer criticism. Or is having some experience with it enough? Certainly tourists are asked all the time to evaluate their stays.

  38. considering he says (unless he’s kidding) that he is Jewish–

    he’s half Jewish, from his mothers side. It’s in his book ‘white like me’

    Good grief, blaming most injustice on an elite class, which may or may not be designated by race, has dominated liberal discourse for most of the 20th century and even extends back into the 19th.

    He’s not blaming, this is a clear indication of an unsophisticated mind. His central thesis is that white racism as a societal institution – created by elite whites in the 1600’s, is just as corrosive to the white majority as it is to the minorities it more visible affects. The traditional approach to eradicating white racism has been the ‘white guilt’ method, (ie, you’ve benefited, now you have to pay back) Tim Wise takes it a step further.

    Controversy just means there are differing opinions, and acknowledging that is not a “bold” statement, it is just a humble fact, and facts should not bother those whose minds are already made up.

    Controversy is usually used for something that’s extremely differing in opinion, and well covered in the media, in particular when it’s a political pundit making a statement (and thats the context in which you used the word), If the entire thesis of your argument is “The entire world doesn’t agree with Tim Wise” whipee. congratulations. One thing is true, if more whites took the time to attain his understanding, we’d be much further in reaching an equitable society.

  39. HMF, I’m still waiting for you to give me something more than that a white girl’s mom might hide her embarassement by saying, “Katie’s a good girl, things just haven’t gone her way.”

    It’s not just her mom, if you go back and read, it’s an entire national consciousness that I’m talking about. It’s exactly what Kanye West was talking about when he said the media shows white people ‘looking for food’ and black people ‘looting’

    Secondly, I made no mention of gov’t assistance, in fact, I wouldn’t be surprised if things like welfare were given moreso to blacks.

  40. Does one have to be born and bred in a country in order to offer criticism.

    Unequivocably not. To hold the contrary position is quite vapid. For example, imagine thinking “can’t criticize those Nazis, I didn’t grow up there,” or, “can’t criticize those Arab slave-raiding expeditions in east Africa, I’m just not familiar with local mores.”

  41. this is a clear indication of an unsophisticated mind

    fyi. this is why i stopped debating the point with you. its not that your points have no merit. your just insulting.

  42. fyi. this is why i stopped debating the point with you. its not that your points have no merit. your just insulting.

    eh. but this isn’t?

    “um, no, thanks. Call me quirky, but something tells me that rational debate with you is just not in the cards.”

  43. um, no, thanks. Call me quirky, but something tells me that rational debate with you is just not in the cards.”

    i said that? hmm…sorry if i said that. i usually try not to say stuff like that.

  44. His central thesis is that white racism as a societal institution – created by elite whites in the 1600’s

    “Racism” has been implemented in many forms within a society. I conjecture that as soon as human beings formed a society they implemented forms of racism. An amazing example of structural racism as a religious/societal institution is the caste system in India (folks may disagree and call it casteism but, in every respect you cannot diffrentiate it from racism). There is a long history, from Ancient Egypt down to the present day, of the association of intelligence/stupidity with skin colour. Present day middle-east is rife with examples of racism (Jews in Iran/Egypt, South Asians in the Gulf, Palestinians in Israel).

    So yes, white racism as a societal institution existed/exists but it is not an invention. Every powerful group finds/makes-up differences to oppress the less powerful.

  45. His central thesis is that white racism as a societal institution – created by elite whites in the 1600’s

    White racism is clearly an invention, as you’ll never find the existence of ‘whiteness’ or ‘white identity’ that predates the American 1600’s.

  47. i said that? hmm…sorry if i said that. i usually try not to say stuff like that.

    No it wasn’t you, it was someone else, but you quoted my response to him. and fyi I usually dont intend on being insulting unless someone else drew first blood.

  48. you’ll never find the existence of ‘whiteness’ or ‘white identity’ that predates the American 1600’s.

    15th century european slave traders in africa didn’t have a white identity?

  49. Some figures on Government Assistance:

    Individuals Below the Poverty Line (U.S. Census): In 2005: 24.9% of African Americans and 8.3% of whites were below the federal poverty line. Between 2004 and 2005 the number and percentage of non-Hispanic whites under poverty decreased. The number and percentage for Hispanics and African Americans was not statistically different. The number and percentage of Asians increased.

    Government Assistance: Temporary Assistance for Needy Families (TANF) [U.S. Senate]: 38% of recipients are African American; 32% are white. Among children, 39% are African American and 27% are white. In 2003, 33.6% of African American children lived under poverty.

    Medicaid: Of all eligible individuals, 41.2% were white and 22.% were black. [U.S. Dept of Health & Human Services]

    Food Stamps: 1 in 3 (33%) of black mothers receive food stamps (1.9 million); 1 in 9 white mothers receive food stamps (3.2 million). [Census 2006] According to America’s Second Harvest Network, 40% of clients who pick up food at food pantries are white, while 37.1% are black. [2006 study]

    One of the most stark contradictions is that the stereotype of a welfare mom as single and black does not meet the reality of the situation. White mothers, both in numbers and as a percentage, receive a disproportionate amount of government assistance relative to their share of the population below poverty.

  50. you’ll never find the existence of ‘whiteness’ or ‘white identity’ that predates the American 1600’s.
    15th century european slave traders in africa didn’t have a white identity?

    I think it’s fair to argue that European traders in the 1500s were operating in what became the unique beats of the Atlantic slave trade and the formation of American racism. I had a great collection of essays as an undergrad on this — I think it’s called Race & Enlightenment (by Eze). It talks a lot about how racism was formed and how contradictory it was given the rhetoric of individual rights/liberties/freedom/democracy in the Enlightenment. All that said, I while I agree with amaun that societies create institutions/systems that benefit the privileged/elite, I do think that the creation of race and racism in the Americas (and specifically within the U.S. and Caribbean) is unique in many ways from previous systems of slavery and from other social orderings.