I think someone owes Sikh people an apology [via India West].
When Los Angeles right-wing talk radio host Al Rantel referred to a turbaned Sikh as wearing a “diaper” on his head last week, one local Indian American man decided that he’d had enough.
“If he does not correct himself, on the air, we’re going to put pressure on him,” Navraj Singh told India-West by phone Sept. 17. “I’m getting calls from around the country, and Sikh temples are collecting signatures,” said Singh, adding that he was ready to lead a protest outside the radio station
Rantel is a conservative host whose show airs on KABC 790AM every weekday in Los Angeles. During his Sept. 10 show, Rantel was discussing airport security, and said that if his own 80-year-old mother had to take off her shoes during a security screening, “… then why shouldn’t a Sikh be required to take off the hat that looks like a diaper they wear on their heads?” recalled Singh. [IndiaVest]
When contacted, Rantel’s accomplice producer eloquently stated that this @$$#o!#’$ words were “taken out of context”. Awww. Of course they were! Because there obviously exists a context wherein diapers and turbans nestle innocently in the same sentence. Maybe Rantel was saying, “I saw a nice Sikh man changing his baby’s diaper…it’s great to see Fathers taking such an active role!” Yeah, no…as my little cousin would say.
See? They DO exist:
Singh describes himself as a semi-regular listener to the show, and says he himself is a conservative Republican.
In a strongly worded letter he sent to KABC Sept. 12, Singh challenged Rantel to an on-air debate. Rantel’s team has not yet responded to him. [IndiaVest]
coughCHICKENcough. Gosh, I really need some Ricola. Must be the weather. Seasons change, feelings change, (and now I have Expose in my head, as I fume over this latest example of disrespect).
This Uncle has weathered b.s. in the past:
After a successful career as a decorated officer in the Indian Army, Singh immigrated to New York in 1974, and says he has faced discrimination as a turbaned Sikh in the United States. He says he was laughed at when he started a job as a door-to-door vacuum salesman that year (he later became the company’s top seller, he said), and maintains that he was forced out of another successful sales job in 1979 because his boss was afraid of anti-Iran sentiment during the Iranian hostage crisis.
For those of you in the L.A. area, Singh is the man behind India’s Oven/Tantra. One of his restaurants (the original “oven”) was destroyed during the ’92 riots. But I digress.Rantel the ignorant (I shall bestow this title upon him, yes), is gay and the grandson of Italian immigrants. I know that the latter detail is irrelevant, because this country is fine with Europeans choosing to settle here (shocker– he’s a Minuteman fan), but I am naive enough to be disappointed that his sexual preference didn’t gift him with any compassion. I guess no one ever gave him a hard time. Heh.
So Rantel’s schtick is getting his listeners to “think”, while being funny…which is exactly what we try and do here. Ek teeny weeny difference– I don’t think we’d ever say something as nasty as what he did. I’m thinking that has to do with the whole compassion thing, along with, you know, not being thoughtless.
Singh sees no levity in Rantel’s “diaper” comment.
Me, neither!
“I’m grateful to God that I am a Sikh,” he said. “Our religion is an open book. I want to tell Americans that we have to somehow maintain a nice tone when speaking to each other. Then we can understand each other better, and create a better world for all of us.”
Blame the mouse (Disney owns a majority of Citadel):
KABC 790 AM is a Los Angeles radio station, and a West Coast flagship station for the American Broadcasting Company. A pioneer of the talk radio format, the station went “all-talk” in 1960; they are of the first station ever to do so. This is one of many Disney/ABC Radio stations that has now merged with Citadel Broadcasting and remains an ABC affiliate to this day.[wiki: KABC]
Rantel has characterized his program with several trademarks: live on-the-spot promotions of products and services (unusual in talk radio), frequent presentation of unusual and unknown news stories, and citation of analogies and adages, many of which are his own. [wiki]
He believes in diversity! Well, except diversity of religious headgear.
Despite the numerous appearances of conservatives such as Ann Coulter, the program often features guests with very different opinions than the host. In addition, many guests are authors or leaders of a particular organization. [wiki]
So this next part contains an interesting detail– Rantel doesn’t like anti-semitism. Problem solved! Someone should explain that a turban is more like a yarmulke than a diaper.
Rantel is clearly a political conservative on issues such as the role of the Judicial Branch and taxes. He is known to be a strong supporter of the policies and presidency of Ronald Reagan. He is distinctively critical of what he perceives to be political correction, very supportive of Israel, and irritated by antisemitism, outsourcing of tech support, excessive body weight, and certain statements of Lt. Governor Cruz Bustamente and Madeleine Albright. Primarily in regard to differences with the Bush administration over illegal immigration issues, Rantel is noticeably at odds with specific policies of George W. Bush and Republican members of Congress. [wiki]
He’s edgy! He disagrees with Dubya! But hey, what’s up with the size-ism?
Anyway, here’s the obligatory “we’d love to hear from you”-bullshit from KABC’s website:
We appreciate you taking the time to contact us. We always enjoy hearing comments from our listeners. Unfortunately, due to the large amounts of e-mail that we receive, we may not be able to respond to each and every message. Feel free to call us during business hours, Monday – Friday, 9AM-5PM at 310 840 4900.
Our mailing address is: 3321 S. La Cienega Blvd., Los Angeles, CA 90016.
To advertise on TalkRadio 790 KABC:
Please Contact: Matt Mallon (310) 840-4955
If you have feedback for any of the departments at 790 KABC, please let us know!
Okay, then! They asked for it. Let’s let them know!
there was other stuff. what was interesting is that she come from an old-line wasp family. her dad was a 3rd generation yale ibanker. so, i met her family and the topic of “the jews” came up now and then, and i could sense the resentment, especially in regards to wall steet, where the wasps once ruled but now play 2nd fiddle to goldman and lehman. i’m not sure why they felt so comfortable discussing this in front of me, but they did know a lot of indians, having lived there for a few years, (she had an indian first name) so i surmise they probably heard a lot of indians say racist and anti-semitic stuff in india so they figured i was like that. she told an odd story of being “kdnapped” in india by a poor family that treated her like a princess because she was blonde.
i think one of the great unwritten stories of our time is the decline of wasp power and culture. too much money will do that.i once had a headache and her mom gave me a percocet, so i sense alcohol and drug abuse has hit this community. it was very interesting observing the natives in their natural habitat (the upper east side of Manhattan.) later, i regaled my business partner, whose father is a prominent rabbi, with stories of my time spent in wasp high-society. he said he never experienced any antisemitism, but always suspected it existed and thus would’ve never considered working for morgan stanley or JP Morgan when he started out on wall st. he found it very interesting that i could confirm his suspicions. now, if one of us could just infiltrate british high-society it would be interesting to hear what they say about indians…since we are the new jews.
Manju, Can you back up your assertion with experience? I don’t want to get into a discussion on how many Indians are racist – because we have discussed that adnauseum in other threads, but anti -semitism in India is non existent. In fact India is one of the few countries ( if not the only one) where Jews never faced any persecution. The exception was in Goa which was by the then ruling Portuguese. I know the whole “Hitler’s Cross Restuarant ” controversy was discussed here on SM and that was a case of ignorance and NOT persection of Jews
Throwaway remarks like this one irk me.They underscore the fact that even here there are so many stereotypes about Indians and India
Well said Runa, I mean’t to comment on it but got pulled into something else. I think what is comical the flow of logic anti semitic in front of a person of Indian origin=time in India=daughter with Indian first name=they probably heard Indians say racist and anti semitic things. I think the problem here is that even some old time commenters don’t think before typing.
Manju,
Not only Runa is correct.
Historically, the chief war strategist for 1971 was a Jew, the chief of staff was a Parsee, and the General who took the surrender on the eastern front was a Sikh.
Hindu Nationalist in fact, see Jews as their natural ally. Should I expound more…..or you get the hint.
and the irony is that all this anti semitism was exhibited to man-jew. stinging!
Also, I am not sure how giving you a percocet for headache logically flows to Drug and Alcohol abuse in the Wasp community.
because she gave him a johnny walker blue label to down it with.
Dravidian,
That will sure make sense, btw your comments here are some of the funniest.
And a valium. 🙂
yes, i’ve heard it. granted anti-black statements are the most common, followed by anti-muslim. while anti-semitic statements are much rarer, i guess it just falls into the general social acceptance of such statements in Indian society, which of course itself is a stereotype, and maybe you’d take offense to that but its not too differnet from saying there’s a lot of racism in Jena, LA.
blockquote>yes, i’ve heard it. granted anti-black statements are the most common, followed by anti-muslim. while anti-semitic statements are much rarer
So you admit that anti-semitic statements are rare in India yet you have no qualms in surmising that anti-semtitism is so widely acceptable in India that your ex’s parents definitely spoke the way they did in front of you because they definitely heard people in India being anti-semitic? Puh-leeze!
Saying “there is racism in Jena” is different than saying that “anti-semitism is widely accepted in India”. Don’t play games. The parallel would be if I took the example of Jena and said that all Americans are racist -which is ridiculous. I am calling you out on this one because of the casual way you slipped it into a comment here.Yeah, damn right I take offence.
I’ve heard plenty of Jewish conspiracy kind of anti-semitism from dbds. Plenty.
Camille said:
Wow, that’s really surprising to me. I know that Pakistanis were voting Republican pretty recently because Bush was sending aid their way, and I know some Sikhs who went Republican in the 80s on account of Dan Burton and a few other Republicans were the only ones in Congress talking about the genocide in Punjab (thanks to lobbying by Dr. Gurmeet Singh Aulukh), but desi Republicans are pretty rare in my world, PARTICULARLY among my parents’ generation. I always attributed desi support for Democrats to their willingness to help take care of the weak and infirm, i.e. their social conscience.
Full disclosure: I was a misguided youth, myself. I took Ayn Rand way too seriously and, instigated by some lobbying-kind of activists (and sensing a great item for my college applications) I volunteered at the 1992 GOP convention. I was the 16 year old token in the orange turban cheering during Pat Buchanan’s speech–there’s prolly footage of my somewhere.
Thank you, Mr. Vonnegut, for saving my soul.
And I – a DBD – have had Jewish friends in the des all my life- classmates and colleagues, my parents had Jewish friends in the des and not ONCE have I ever heard them complain of anti -semitism.
I wonder if the DBDs you and Manju seem to meet are the fringe nutcases/conspiracy theorists? I mean if my American friends were all members of the KKK ,I am sure I would also have this idea that all Americans are white supremacists
To get back on topic here, I think it is safe to say that Al Rantel has never had a qualm in relation to belittling and insulting the likes of anything even remotely seen as “Islamic/Middle Eastern” on his radio show, and that unfortunately means Sikhs, and South Asians in general, will get to bare the likes of his ratings grabbing wrath. His listening audience is probably not much into the concept of “nuance”, anyways.
Of course, you will never here Mr.Rantel say anything that could even be remotely viewed as “anti-Semitic” by even the most fringe of the fringe in the department of “victimhood”. Is that a double standard? I would day so…
Runa, Brown, Kush,
Will you forgive me for asking this, though I SWEAR I have a point– are you all DBDs? I think Runa and Brown are, but am not sure about Kush. How long have you been here/when did you leave India? I think I know where the disconnect between you Manju/Harbeer is coming from, but I don’t want to assume anything, which is why I’m asking kinda dumb, potentially offensive questions…
I think it is one thing that you qualify your statements with your personal experince but lable the whole country anti semite is pretty far fetched. I think Runa says it much better than I can.
Hi Anna,
I have no problem with you asking, I lived in India till I was 27 and moved here 6 years back. I lived in Delhi and Bombay and travelled extensively throughout the country. I hope this place stays a respectful forum and few sweeping generaliztions like these don’t cloud everyone’s judgements about people from India. In my mind this is as bad as Prema calling the whole Korean male communite emasculated after the Virginia Tech incident.
I hope so, too! Though as we get larger, it’s def. more of a challenge to keep the chaos contained. 🙂 I don’t want anyone to make incorrect or demeaning statements about people from India, in fact, that’s exactly why I’m stepping in now. 🙂
Oh, my. Well, this shall be sorted and soon. 🙂
Anna,
I appreciate the sanity you and your co authors bring to this site and that is precisely why I have been reading SM since 2005, I learn so many things I had no idea about and I think you guys do a great job in containing the noise.
wow, and Indian captivity narrative with a dot-not-feather twist. The things you hear on SM. I am sure her anti-semitism was just a manifestation of the Stockholm syndrome.
I think Runa and Brown are, but am not sure about Kush. How long have you been here/when did you leave India?
Answer to your questions:
I was born in India.
I spent my childhood in USA.
I spent my formative, teenage, and youthful years in India.
I got my 2 graduate degrees in USA.
I have spent more total years in USA than in India.
However, I visit India almost every year. I was there last year, and probably will be in December-January again. In India, I have lived in campus towns that happen to be national universities in India (Kalyanpur (technically IIT is in Kalyanpur, not Kanpur City proper), and Roorkee***) so I do sample a wide variety of people from India through neighbors, friends, class mates, etc during my stay in India. During chai time (which is almost the whole day) in a Department @ IIT, Roorkee, you will see South Indians, North Indians, Hindus, Sikhs, Christians, Muslims – as faculty members in animated discussions, and you learn from them.
Therefore, a lot of comments here on SM on generalities about India sound to me idiotic, nutty, uninformed, full of their own prejudices, tainted glasses, fringe cases, not uniformly sampled about Indians. More than often, I let them pass because I need to get work done. No doubt, you have people here at SM comments with intelligent observations too – they are breath of fresh air.
I think Runa is more vigilant. She is not the only DBD on SM but maybe, the most committed to fight blanket utterances. Technically 60% of Indian American citizens are DBDs. Then you have H-1Bs,H-4s, F-1s, O-1s, Green cards and the whole nine yard lurking SM during daytime. Most of the time, I find people making over-the-top generalities without much sampling amusing.
*** Roorkee does not only have an IIT but the oldest military engineering garrison in India – Bengal Sappers, and quite a few national labs (CBRI, NIH, World Bank Irrigation Project HQ), so in Roorkee, you will find people from all the over India, and eventually you get a better idea about them.
Now you know, where I come from.
runa:
i don’t think there is a lot of anti-semitism in india. i do think there is a lot less sensitivity to thnic stereotypes in india, and not much of a taboo to making such statements in public…which is not necessarily a bad thing, as some stereotypes are accurate. i myself am rather tolerant toward stereotypes and don’t easily dismiss someone as a bigot, as my long debates with HMF regarding malcolm x prove.
of course, all stereotypes are absurd if one insists in assigning this stereotype to every individual in the stereotyped group. but to say indian society is very tolerant of bigoted comments is very different from saying all indians are bigots.
i meant by this that malcolm x had some issues with racism but i still take hem very seriously.
kush: r us saying you honestly haven’t heard indians, especially of your parents generation, making sweeping statements about other ethnicites at a higher rate than say americans? are you telling me, after 9-11, you never went to an indian party and heard a scotch wielding uncleji say “we must kill all the Muslims!”
now i realize i’m engaging in stereotyping as well, but is anyone else familiar with my scotch wielding uncleji, or am i living in a alternate reality?
And that’s why I asked what I did– I think it’s foolish to lump ALL DBDs together. You, Brown and Runa all have much more recent and therefore, in my opinion, more accurate views/experiences with India. You’re not frozen in time, like certain aunts and uncles– the ONE time I heard something anti-Semitic from an Uncle…he was someone who had come here in the 60s. Yes, those people visit home, but even then, they are frozen…they limit their interactions to family and rush to whatever wedding they went to India for and then come back to a job that doesn’t allow for THAT many vacation days. Not the greatest opportunity for seeing the real, modern India, IMO. 🙂
I’m not saying that all of the “post ’65” gen parents who populate my fathers peer group are anti-semites, not at all. But I think the attitudes do exist, especially if you are from a part of India that does not have many Jewish people or if you didn’t go to one of India’s top educational institutions/live in a city which had one. 🙂 My dad never said anything negative about Jewish people, but that is because we are from central Kerala; similarly, my uncles and aunties who grew up in Bombay were more like Runakka. 🙂 Out of all the people on SM, when it comes to things Indian, or getting a sense of what Indian people think or do, you are one of the people I trust most, because over the years you have mentioned all the places you’ve lived and your comments are superior for it. But not every DBD is like you, right? I knew a DBD H1-B at my last job, who, before leaving for Virginia three years ago, had never left AP. His experience (and therefore, his opinions) varied vastly from yours. Suffice to say, I wish I was sitting across from YOU at our weekly Chipotle lunches, instead of poor old Pravin. 😉
I’m not trying to front like I have the answers, I was just struck how in a weird way, both you and Manju were right (though sweeping generalizations never are); there are dumb Indian people, who are negative towards Blacks, Jewish people, “chaptas” (hey, why do I even know that word?) et al. But there are dumb people everywhere. India doesn’t have a monopoly on either idiots or assholes. 😀
kush: r us saying you honestly haven’t heard indians, especially of your parents generation, making sweeping statements about other ethnicites at a higher rate than say americans? are you telling me, after 9-11, you never went to an indian party and heard a scotch wielding uncleji say “we must kill all the Muslims!“
Manju,
I have heard hazaar (thousand) prejudices filled statements in India – most of them are anti-Muslim from all the generations (yours, mine, older, younger). Nobody called them clean but you made a statement that goes against the Indian general mindset.
I have yet to hear an anti-semitic statement in India – even from Muslims – I know lot of Muslims as friends since Roorkee probably has 25% Muslims as native Roorkeeans – probably if I went to a working class Muslim neighborhood – maybe, maybe, in response to Palestine, etc. maybe.
I am telling you guys – an average Hindutva guys (or even nationalist Indians who are not Hindutva) see jew as a natural ally – I have had numerous discussions over the years – as a little kid, I remember, most animated discussion in India for 1973 Yom Kippur war – it happened two years after 1971 – An average guy knew might never know where Sinai Peninsula was – but knew Israelis were kicking Arab butt, just like us in n1971. That is the way India collectively thinks.
i have never heard any indian-born person of any religion make an anti-semitic remark. i wonder if the very few that do – my guess – do so because of the palestinian situation, which for many years (and still is to a certain extent) was a popular cause for indians. are these remarks truly anti-semitic or anti-israel? i remember when yasir arafat visited india and was feted as a hero. or does it have to do with the huge number of israeli tourists that visit india now (and there have been a few problems both ways)?
I have a grandmother who talks like that. But she is over 90 and has never gotten over partition. No one in my dad’s generation talks like that. Talking about PC America, I remember Anne Coulter said pretty much the same thing, and got away with it.
“the ONE time I heard something anti-Semitic from an Uncle…he was someone who had come here in the 60s.”
but i wonder if his anti-semitism developed after he came to the u.s. or was it really a holdover from india? it’s easy to go to a new country and develop new attitudes based on experience/influence from others/stereotypes etc.
I’m wondering, too. Maybe you are right, and they only felt that way after coming here and deciding to let one stupid experience cloud their perception of an entire people (we’re all guilty of it).
Now this is interesting, this anti-Israel vs. anti-semitic idea. I’ve heard about the negativity towards Israeli tourists and how it goes both ways– one Israeli website I went to had a comments section and a vocal minority were trying to call out an asshole-ish majority on their unfortunate, rather nasty views of Indians. It was all annoying and depressing.
Anna , 🙂 Thanks You asked so here is my story : Born in the des ,studied there, worked there ,married there, had a kid there and then moved here approx 7 years ago at age 32.So my formative years were all spent in India.I also lived and worked in 5 or 6 cities/small towns in India in the North and West ( alas! never the South).My parents always had a large circle of friends from all over India – all religions/castes/communities etc etc . I am in an “Aviyal ” marriage – as are most of my cousins and friends.My best friend who I know since kindergarten and whose parents I consider a second set of parents is Bohri Muslim.I went to Catholic school. Does this make me unusual among DBDs ? I do not think so because most of the folks I know in the des have had similar lives
Fight ? 🙂 Maybe – because I feel sometimes that everyone gets a skewed impression of the des because of the skewed sample they deal with.Secular DBDs are not as rare as they seem!
When I was in Rishikesh for a couple of days, I was surprised to see written signs in Hebrew in some shops (probably for basic stuff), since a lot of Israelis end up there. And the boarding houses/lodges are very accommodating to them. One person I talked to was a bit sad (but not angry) that one of the lodges had started serving meat* because of Israelis and other foreigners. I’m sure that the glut of Israelis looking for a release/peace in India after their compulsory stint in the army has some negative impact on the local Indian population, which in turn leads some locals to be negative towards them. The few Israelis I talked to, their reason for being in India: it’s a cheap place to travel, and many of them are looking for some kind of peace, or a place to do drugs and party. Another side-effect of the Middle-east conflict and its global impact.
How come anti-Semitism always refers to the hatred of Jewish people? In linguistics and in cultural studies/anthropology, the term refers to both Jews and Arabs (or their languages), along with some other small populations. Does anyone know why this is? From what I know, the term emerges late in the 19th century, but I can’t seem to find out how it happened. Regardless, I think the term’s current usage seems to have the negative effect of widening the perceived gap between Jews and Arabs by drawing that line, which is a shame since the two groups share so much peaceful history and culture!
The only time I’ve heard anything negative about Jews is from some Indian Muslims who have a conspiracy mindset and think that the Jews control everything that USA does.
That should be “..anything negative about Jews from Indians is…”
I tried this argument back in college and my raised-in-Israel, speaking-Hebrew/Arabic/French, sponsoring-PalestianianSolidarityGroup, professor shut me down very quickly. Usage really matters here, as you indicated, especially in the past 100 years or so when media studies became it’s own discipline.
also, if you are going by semitic languages you must also include Aramhic (Ethiopians) and Aramaic as well as Arabic and Hebrew.
Most people in my community (I am from Lucknow) do not even know what the Yom Kippur war was. They aren’t even v bothered about muslims: in fact many have a v high opinion of them due to their association with old nawabi/lakhnavi culture, etc. Most prejudice is caste and region based. Just saying that it is v hard to tell what Indian collectively thinks: just look at the mishmash that gets elected to Parliament every year.
muralimannered: We meet again! My post was more about the question than an argument. From what I have seen, in academia the term usually refers to all of the groups/languages above (I’m aware there are others; Maltese, Akkadian, etc.) whereas the general public usage seems to indicate only Hebrew/Jews. If you don’t mind, could you elaborate a bit on the media studies point? I’m really interested in the history of the mass media/layperson’s usage of the term, and would greatly appreciate it. Thanks!
Harbeer, I think some of the Republicanism might have to do with my parents’ original social circle being based in the midwest and southwest — the majority of their friends/colleagues were solidly moderate (leaning slightly right). In the Bay Area it was different — most had been lifelong Democrats. As the tenor of the Republican party has continually shifted right, most of the moderate aunties and uncles I know are becoming “decline to state”s. My parents, as Dems, have always been the exception in their circle.
With respect to the “are DBDs more anti-Semitic/bigoted” question… I don’t think there’s anything intrinsically or culturally more anti-Semitic about the des. I do think, however, that depending on where you settle in the U.S. it is easier to pick up the subtle bigotry that passes every day in the U.S., both in the form of mass media and in everyday interactions.
From Toronto Star:
“In India there was no such thing as anti-Semitism. I only heard that word after I left,” says Abraham, a retired Hamilton city planner who came here in 1968 for a better economic opportunity.
With larger numbers in India, it was easier for Jews to preserve their faith and culture. In Canada, doing so is more challenging because “we are a minority within a minority,” Moses says.
Parents in the small community typically send their children to Jewish schools or Hebrew night classes. They attend established synagogues. Bar and bat mitzvahs are celebrated. Small groups of families take turns hosting the Sabbath dinner at home on Fridays. Marrying within the faith is strongly encouraged.
Their strong identification with Indian culture means they also observe festivals such as Diwali and Holi.
“It’s an interesting balance,” says Moses.
“I also have allegiance to three countries because they’ve shaped who I am. If someone talks negatively about Israel I’m right in there defending the country. Same with India and now also Canada.”
PS: Ultrabrown covered Indian Jews very poignantly recently.
re: anti-semitism, a lot of the jewish themed conspiracy themes are memes of recent vintage. there are a fair amount in japan as well now, not because they are very familiar with jews, but they seem an exotic and powerful people. there is anti-semitism bred from familiarity and resentment, as might be exhibited by old-line WASPs who resent their decline in relative power in part due to the influx of jews into the american elites. and then there is anti-semitism bred from exoticism, basically ignorance fed by legend, myth and exaggeration. and finally there is anti-semitism bred from something in between, such as attitudes some muslims have about jews because of palestine and the arab-israeli conflict (e.g., i have heard southeast asian muslims repeating anti-semitic ‘elders of zion’ type myths, but they obviously were just repeating some stuff they’d heard at masjid or in muslim literature).
The story of Jews in India is more complicated than just that of the historical communities in Cochin and elsewhere on the Konkan and Malabar coasts (from Gujarat down to Kerala). These coastal Jewish communities never got pressed into ‘middleman’ roles, they lived among and with the local population. Neither was there any religious animosity, so the classic conditions that gave rise to anti-Semitism in Europe were not present, and so it’s not surprizing that it never arose there.
However, there were also Jewish traders and sojourners, some of whom had Indian slaves – where ‘slaves’ need not necessarily bring to mind chattel – such as the merchant profiled by Amitav Ghosh in ‘In an Antique Land’ – perhaps the visibility of such traders was small, so no particular ‘otherizing discourses’ got started.
But Jews also came in with other colonizers – certainly with the British, participating both as administrators (there were Jewish Viceroys in India, as well as Secretaries of State for India in Britain), plus lesser functionaries; as well as merchants, traders, investors and bankers. Here they adopted more explicitly ‘middleman’ roles – competing with Marwaris head-on in Calcutta and Bombay, for example. So here the conditions for seeing them analogously to European Jewry were there. In fact, some of these communities directly brought in the attitudes and ‘human and social capital’ that characterized European Jewish communities.
The post-Great Depression Hitlerian anti-Semitic discourse did find some resonance in India, and the specific Palestinian situation created another space for such discourses. So anti-Semitism is not altogether absent in India, and in places, can be quite strong. Many of the people who have these anti-Semitic views have never actually met or interacted with Jews, but they pick up the attitudes from the media, from colonial mindsets, etc.
But still, I find the very discussion of anti-Semitism amongst Indians, especially in the US – a little curious, if not altogether surreal. In the North American context, Jews as a community are vastly more numerous and vastly stronger. And as both individuals and a community – vastly more influential and vastly more wealthy than Indians. It’s going to be a long time before Indians are both Secretary of Defence and Secretary of State at the same time (which happened in the US for first-generation European Jews – more than 30 years ago) – or hold down a dozen Senate seats, or head up all of the largest financial companies, or be Mayor of the largest cities etc – if it ever happens.
And Razib, to your list of how anti-Semitism arises, I would add that some Jews do in fact behave in clannish ways – I have seen the behavior myself, both in academic Departments and in companies. Many other Jews are extremely outgoing, ‘liberal’ etc of course. But let’s not completely discount the fact that some of the time, the behavior that the worst bigots ascribe to all Jews is actually exhibited by some of them.
once upon a time i happened to be sitting next to a north african grad student (columbia U) at a sushi and we got into a political discussion. at one point, he leaned in and asked me if i knew who was really responsible for 911, and the answer was “the israelites.” i could be wrong, but i sensed the reason he felt comfortable saying this tyo me was because i’m brown, and he felt a comradeship, perhaps assuming brown=sympathy toward palestinians=open to zionist conspiracy theory. somehow i doubt he would’ve said that to a white man.
so i think we must remember that our data is a tad skewed because your own type will usually let their hair down around you and tell you how they really feel. so, i guess that why i was so surprised around my ex’s family. maybe they felt a kinship that i didn’t.
And Razib, to your list of how anti-Semitism arises, I would add that some Jews do in fact behave in clannish ways – I have seen the behavior myself, both in academic Departments and in companies. Many other Jews are extremely outgoing, ‘liberal’ etc of course. But let’s not completely discount the fact that some of the time, the behavior that the worst bigots ascribe to all Jews is actually exhibited by some of them.
chachaji, of course. i’ve discussed some of that here: http://scienceblogs.com/gnxp/2007/07/a_reflected_light_from_the_nat.php
but i assume it as a background condition that the rabbinical jews viewed goyim as amoral animals just as the goyim viewed jews as blood-sucking parasites (there is a long tradition in kabbalah of non-jews essentially lacking souls and being descended from ‘adam belial,’ the evil adam). but this dynamic is not particular to the jewish-gentile one, we south asians here need no lessons on groups dehumanizing each other alas.
p.s. some german jewish refugees ended up in cochin in the late middle ages and in the early modern period.
here is the direct link to my rumination upon jewish exclusivity.
razib,
I read that–wow–that’s really more of a research agenda than a manifesto–you should totally go into academia–you’ve got a lifetime’s worth of interesting topics to work on–and this seems to me (no expert) to be plausible but not established stuff–so unlike so much self-satisfied academic carrying-on. Do it!
Heh–to ensure your success, pick a weak (academically speaking–i.e.,at the professorial level) field, like law!
rob, my primary interest is in evolutionary biology. my historical interests are a sidelight. as for the facts i reported, they don’t require any deep research. e.g., if you read “pop kabbalah” closely there are hints of pretty nasty attitudes toward gentiles if you know the historical context, so just follow the bibliography and you’ll find some shocking stuff.
(this is not to imply of course that most jews believe that the lives of non-jews are without worth or value. there is some nasty material in the new testament about jews which obviously does not reflect the attitudes of most contemporary christians. historical context matters)
pick a weak (academically speaking–i.e.,at the professorial level) field, like law!
“a mind is a terrible thing to waste” :=)
razib, my point is that most (professional) historians, social scientists, law professors, etc. these days are so crazy that someone with your level of engagement yet detached rationality, coupled with high IQ, could clean up–take the suggestion for what it’s worth–it’s just coming from me, but I’m pretty sure it’s true.