A slightly Anonymous Tipster operating via the chimney which is our News tab gifted me with a robust cup of breakfast-reading which perked me right up.
How’s that for two utterly unrelated metaphors? Huh? Yeeeah, boyee.
Now you are surely not asking, “what got you all twitchy and agitated, Anna?”, but I am going to gift you with an answer anyway! I’m hyper thanks to the latest advice column from Cary Tennis, which is published at Salon.
Today’s edition of Cary-wisdom is inspired by a letter writer (LW) who can be neatly summed up by the title of the column:
I don’t want to be a doctor!
Fair enough, LW. A good number of us did or didn’t, but I want to know more about you, even as part of me groans, knowing I will regret it and get all uber-bitch on your ass by the end of this.
Aug. 28, 2007 | Dear Cary,
I am 20 years old, go to a state university, and am severely confused on what I want to do in life.
When I was little, I wanted to be an “artist.” With the beret, paintbrushes and canvas. Then, I moved on. Sure, I loved art, and enjoyed it, and was good at it, but I realized I wasn’t exceptionally creative in that sense. So I wanted to be a journalist. That idea left as soon as it entered my mind in high school. Then, toward the lag end of high school, I got interested in becoming a doctor. It wasn’t out of some desire I had to cure the world or make lots of money. It was because of my parents.
My parents and my family are from the Indian subcontinent and are Muslim. In their minds, the best thing to be is a professional. Especially a doctor. My father always tells me that I should be a doctor to help people and to be independent. My dad works away from home and flies back to my family every three to four weeks. It’s a hard life for him, because he misses out on our lives. It’s important to him that I become independent and have the ability to work wherever I want to. So, in high school, I took some medical classes. I enjoyed them; they weren’t my favorite classes, but they were, I suppose, “all right.”
When I started applying for university, for my possible majors, I would alternate between political science and English. My mother would ask me to write “pre-medicine” next to the others. Therefore, when I got accepted, I was put into the pre-professional advising. I never truly desired to become a doctor. The only reason I wanted to become one was to help people. To fix them. So I kept going. I took biology, chemistry, bioethics.
Then, my sophomore year, last year, I fell apart. I took physics and organic chemistry. I was doing terribly in both. I made a 48 on my first exam in physics and a 63 in organic. I had to decide whether or not to drop physics. I eventually did, and I was so disappointed in myself. You see, I did well in high school. I took many Advanced Placement classes, made A’s, and was an excellent student. And I got burnt out. I just couldn’t force myself to work. I tried, but it wasn’t enough. I didn’t care enough. So I eventually made a C in organic.
It was during this semester that I would get these sort of panic attacks. I would just cry and cry when thinking about how badly I was doing in life, in organic, in everything. This is what really scared me the most. I always prided myself on not stressing out, not freaking out, and doing well in what I was studying for. But here was a class that just broke me down into tears. I couldn’t study when I was like that.
Then, the spring semester began. I took the second part of organic. Struggled through it and was averaging a C in the class. Then I fell apart again. I made a 48 on my last test, which dropped me to a D. I had to make an amazing grade on the final. I didn’t start studying for the final until the night before because I had basically given up. I failed the class with an F. In all my other classes that semester, I made A’s and B’s.
So now I don’t know what to do. I’m signed up for organic again this semester, with the same professor I failed with. I’m already freaking out about it. I don’t want to have those panic attacks again, but I can feel my heart rate getting faster just thinking about it and typing it out. I don’t think I want to be a doctor anymore. But I don’t know what else I can do. I’m majoring in English, and I enjoy writing, reading, and analyzing, but what could I do? I know I’m good at it. I’m thinking about public policy, law school, etc. Sometimes I blame my parents for, in a way, forcing me to do pre-med. It prevented me from pursuing architecture, for example. Or anything else. I know I shouldn’t blame them, but it seems so convenient.
I want to do so much with my life. I don’t want to regret anything. I want to study abroad and travel and do the Peace Corps and help people. But I need to make a decision.
What should I do, Cary? I trust your advice. I read your column and your advice is always sound. If you could help me, I would be so grateful.
Typical Confused College Student
There is this phrase in Malayalam my Father used almost daily; I wish I could recall it, so I could butcher its spelling right now. It was something to the effect of, I’ll break your bones and GIVE you something to cry about, you little twerp. Or similar. But let’s allow the sensitive Amreekan (whom I’m a huge fan of, normally, btw) to have his say, since it IS his column we are disgusting discussing.
Dear Confused College Student,
We interupt this post to raise a point of clarification: I’ve numbered the paragraphs below , so they’re easier to refer back to and pillage, no need to thank me, it’s just the kind of blogger I am.
1.) Your parents are sitting on the floor in the living room, playing with a doctor doll. The doctor doll wears a nice white lab coat. The doctor doll is good-looking and rich. The doctor doll has a whole doctor household complete with doctor grandchildren and doctor spouse, and the doctor is in a Lexus driving down the street waving to admirers. Your parents have some play money and they have piled it up next to the doctor. The pile of money is nearly as tall as the doctor.
2.) Your parents would be very upset if someone were to take the rich doctor doll away. So you must use the tactic of redirection. You must show your parents something that is just as interesting to them.
3.) You must wave a shiny lawyer in their faces. You must say, “Look, parents! Shiny, famous lawyer! Rich, famous, shiny lawyer! CNN consultant fees!”
4.) In this way, you can induce them to turn their attention from the rich doctor doll to the rich lawyer doll, without feeling that they have lost a precious dream. If all goes well, they will forget about the doctor and will soon be back on the living room floor, assembling a rich lawyer family, complete with lawyer spouse, successful lawyer children and a big expensive lawyer house filled with money to the ceiling.
5.) You would think that you could just talk to parents. But they aren’t like that. You can’t talk to them. You have to treat them like children.
6.) You, on the other hand, are fairly adult. You know what you need to do. You just have to clear some space for yourself to do it.
7.) While you’re at it, in case you are feeling alone, take a look at this article on Sound Vision. It addresses your situation almost precisely: “The child wants to be an artist; his parents want him to go to med-school and become a doctor. The child wants to be a political scientist; his parents want him to be an engineer. This clash seems to be especially prevalent in immigrant Muslim families.”
8.) And it makes one particularly encouraging observation that might be persuasive to your parents: “Muslim leaders have long complained about the lack of Muslims pursuing careers in the media.”
9.) Law is a difficult career, and it may not be exactly what you wish to pursue for your entire life. But I think you have a good shot at it and should give it a try. It can be a springboard to many other occupations, journalism and writing principally among them.
10.) Your parents are right about one thing. They know, as countless other immigrants have known, that though American society is an open place, it is not a kind, safe place. It is a place where you have to make your own way. You have to establish status for yourself. If not, you will be trampled. That’s the way it is here. So they are right to push you to acquire a profession that will afford you some protection from the vicissitudes of capitalism and individualism.
11.) Sure, you will have to change some of your educational arrangements. But you would have to do that anyway. You flunked organic!
12.) Don’t worry. It’s probably the best course you’ve ever flunked.
13.) Law is excellent training for a writer. Look at Salon’s Tim Grieve, for instance, and Glenn Greenwald. They are both lawyers. They are also powerful writers working as journalists.
14.) So drink some coffee and cancel the pre-med studies.
15.) Throw yourself into what you love best. Make yourself happy. Excel. Immerse yourself in it. Go toward what you love. Work. Graduate. Stay healthy.
16.) Keep telling your parents you’re going to law school.
17.) Then join the Peace Corps.
18.) After the Peace Corps, you’ll know what to do.
Oh, my. What struck me first about all this was how– for lack of a better word– unoriginal the dilemma is…a LOT of us have been exactly where LW is, which partially explains my sarcasm-infused title. Anyway, what follows are my thoughts on specific points Cary made (see why I numbered things?).
…….
Re: no. 3 Anyone else sick of people substituting law school for med school, as if the two are super similar? No? Just me? Meh.
As for the “famous†and “CNN consultantâ€-bit, I thought there was a glut of lawyers, who are often an ambitious, deliciously ruthless bunch (I speak fondly because like every other quondam debate dork, I almost went, you know), who will annihilate this sniveling child as if they were an amuse bouche.
…….
Re: no. 5 You can’t treat your parents like children. Not if they’re desi. Well, you can, if you enjoy the sensation of a Bata chappal as it glides upside your head, but that’s all you. Seriously though, I know I’m officially ancient because I’m indignantly offended on behalf of this kid’s parents. You know what’s awesome about being 32, though? I DON’T GIVE A SHIT.
…….
Re: no. 6 “Fairly adult†my callipygian rondure. This kid has been directed and pushed, their entire life, “guided†forcefully by parental decisions. That’s why LW can’t make an important choice—they don’t know how. Believe me, I speak from experience, after being raised by an over-protective Father who chose MY major for me, as well.
The one thing Cary SHOULD have told LW is to take a deep breath and prepare for some harsh-but-necessary emotional growing pains. Hie thee to the student counseling office, honeychile, because you gonna need it. It’s awful and challenging, but learning how to make your own choices MUST be done…long before you mindlessly traipse off to law school or whatever else. Take it from one who knows and has the scrapes and scars to prove it.
…….
Re: no. 7 “especially prevalent in immigrant MUSLIM families (emphasis mine)�? As opposed to the obvious lack of clash in immigrant homes which religiously identify as Christian, Jewish, Sikh or Hindu? Come ON. This is not a Muslim thang. Mira, this is a BROWN thing. An IMMIGRANT thing. Really, a normal thing.
…….
Re: no. 8 I really don’t think the Muslim community needs more problems—LW can’t speak on behalf of themselves, let alone a massive world religion. One thing at a time. See: my response to number 6.
…….
Re: no. 9 STOP TELLING PEOPLE WHO DON’T KNOW WHAT TO DO TO “GO TO LAW SCHOOLâ€. This is why every lawyer I know (and I know almost a hundred), with the whopping exception of four of my friends, HATES THEIR LIFE. The Law is not an easy-way out. Respect it, don’t use it when what you really need, is a year off to backpack around Turkey or Nepal or just chill, while you figure out what you think you want to do for the foreseeable future. Taking out loans which will later encircle your ankle like a golden chain, keeping you trapped inside corporate law will not make you any happier than flunking O-Chem, LW.
My most miserable friends are the ones who regret going to law school, who work at “big firmsâ€, who wake up to find hair on their pillow, because it’s falling out, who have ulcers and budding substance abuse problems. I find the “Oh, well…if I can’t figure out what to do, I’ll just go to law school!â€-attitude offensive, because I really love the law. One of my friends who is a medical resident said something to the effect of, “Be damned sure this is what you want to do, because it’s not worth the sacrifices unless it’s what you love.†Um, yeah. That goes for everything, because just about everything requires sacrifice, if you want to achieve success.
…….
Re: no. 10 Your parents are right about plenty of things, LW. I started to grok this around age 23. Don’t get it twisted— you, LW, and I, will NEVER know what manner of struggle our parents survived, as new immigrants to this foreign place. There was no internet to utilize as a resource for information, and if they came here in the late 60s, early 70s, there was no community to cushion their landing, either. My mother didn’t know that Oklahoma would get cold in the winter, so she didn’t have a proper coat. She shivered until she could save enough to afford one. My father, who was worried that everything had some meat byproduct in it, unless he cooked it, was a borderline manorexic.
Your parents suffered, too. It made them fierce and strong and it taught them ridiculously valuable lessons about life, which they are using to guide you because they love you more than anyone else will and want to see you thrive. I could never pick up at 21 and move to a totally different country, where I didn’t have a single family member and knew nothing about the local culture, and build a life for myself. I can’t do that at age 32. But my mother did it, when she was more than a decade younger than me. And I worship the ground she treads on, because of it. When I’m not swearing in two languages in her long-suffering, tolerant presence, that is. My point is, your parents, more often than not, unless they are advocating extreme things like forced marriage, are right.
…….
Re: no. 11 You know what I wish Cary had said at this point? What I wish the dean at the College of Letters and Sciences had said to me, when as a miserable Freshman, I said that I hated my major and wanted to transfer schools, but didn’t know what to do, since I was a sheltered, barely-18-year old. Here’s what the dean said:
“College is tough, but at least your parents are paying for it…you’ll be fine. Political Science can be fun! And much more useful than South Asian Studies, which you’d have to go to Berkeley for…â€
Here’s what I wish he said:
“There are these amazing resources called pell grants and student loans—if you’re concerned about the financial implications of standing up to your parents, head to the financial aid office and see what your options are.â€
If this kid is worried about getting cut off financially, there is no better country in which that could happen. Especially if you’re at a state school, which is cheaper than a private one.
…….
Re: no 13 (and now I have the Pixies in my head, 🙂 …Law is excellent training for a lot of things, but as my embittered ivy-league JD/MBA ex-bf reminded me, ad nauseum, when he got home from work every morning at 1:30 am from his “big†Manhattan firm, for his five hours of restless sleep, IT IS NOT REQUIRED IN ORDER TO BECOME A WRITER.
…….
Re: no 15 Yes. Do what you love. If you are passionate about something, you will give up jealous boyfriends, reading for pleasure and half of your social life for it, even when you don’t get paid. LW, once you find something which fulfills you to the point where you can’t imagine NOT doing it, you’ll be all right. College, where you can have a range of different experiences and the opportunity to sample so many classes, is an excellent place to start the process through which you uncover your bliss. 🙂
…….
Re: no 16 Sigh.
…….
Re: no 18 Maybe. Sometimes, that sort of experience/perspective-gathering/kick in the kundi is exactly what we need.
…….
What do you think (like I need to ask)?
99 · glass houses In regards to post 95: To be considered upper middle class you must have a net worth of 250,000 dollars (not including your home)
I don’t want to argue about it, but I’m not sure this is so easily convertible just to $$, if you want a true (and nuanced) answer. Have a look at Fussell.
Rob its all good….I met with my accountant last week, I’m just telling you what he told me 🙂 But now thinking about it, how else could you define class (in the US sense not the British sense) if not by $$ at the end of the day?
PAs make about 60,000-100,000 per year (the 100,000 is for PAs who assist with surgery)–PAs can assist with surgery too
102 · glass houses how else could you define class (in the US sense not the British sense) if not by $$ at the end of the day?
Well, it’s got something to do with the first “S” in “SES” (socio-economic status). Would be curious what other desis think about Fussell’s “Class”–I am a bit obsessed with it.
The author touches on this in paragraph 10. He suggests that the first priority should be establishing a foothold in the middle class. With that accomplished it is safe to pursue a “calling” if a normal professional job proves unsatisfactory. If medicine is not a good fit then law may be the best alternative. It’s beyond the scope of this article, but ongoing social and economic changes might make the author’s advice more urgent. It will be imperative if the American middle class contracts back to its pre-New Deal, pre-WW II form… composed only of professionals and entrepreneurs. Until now you could hold down a generic 9-5 job and still have plenty of time to pursue a “calling”… to volunteer, work on your novel, play in a band. If you’re lucky, your hobby might become your real job. Beyond this you could travel a little bit, have some interesting life experiences. Most importantly, you could support a family if you chose that route and provide your children with opportunity and choices. In the future? Maybe not so much. If you’re stranded outside of the professional classes you might not have the resources or the time to do any of that…
This thread strike a nerve for me because I was a lot like the letter writer when I was that age. I scorned the practical route and pursued a vague calling, ending up with a mushy, only sporadically useful humanities degree. The world is probably better off for that decision… not because of any heroic acts on my part but because I simply lacked (and still lack) the ambition/greed/discipline/work-ethic to succeed just for the sake of success… to excel at a job I did not enjoy. As a doctor, lawyer or engineer I would have been an accident waiting to happen. In the long run things worked out OK. I should (hopefully) have my PhD in history within the next couple of years. I’ve found a job that I truly love and that I am (I believe) pretty damned good at. That being said, not all is sweetness and joy. I wasted the better part of a decade in mostly dead end jobs until I had a real plan… and I had grown up enough to execute it. And there will still be unfillable voids in my future career. I know this by watching my brother… the one who did the “right” thing and went to medical school. I’m not all that interested in a big house, a big car or other material luxuries… but as a doctor he’s had… and will continue to enjoy… travel, life experiences and a degree of freedom and security that will probably always be beyond me. More importantly he has provided handsomely for his family. If I ever were to have a child… much less multiple children… even a professor’s salary might not be adequate to give them all crucial advantages in what is likely to be a hyper-competitive future. Beyond all of that there is a lingering sense that I will never really be grown up, that I will live in the toy box for the rest of my life. In the end what I do is inherently trivial. Nobody’s health, wealth or freedom will be preserved by knowing the difference between a mansabdar and a zamindar…
Some folks upthread have suggested a “Scared Straight” program for potential lawyers, engineers, etc. who don’t understand the realities of those professions. If that is ever implemented, there should also be a similar program for those free spirits who pursue a “calling”… especially in a changing economy where the consequences of any wrong turns or mistakes will be much more severe…
Interesting quote from Amazon.com excerpt of Fussell’s “Class”:
If you reveal your class by your outrage at the very topic, you reveal it also by the way you define the thing that’s outraging you. At the bottom, people tend to believe that class is defined by the amount of money you have. In the middle, people grant that money has something to do with it, but think education and the kind of work you do almost equally important. Nearer the top, people perceive that taste, values, ideas, style, and behavior are indispensable criteria of class, regardless of money or occupation or education.
My “down-to-earth” advice to that college student : If you are worrying about not getting a “desi” girlfriend/boyfriend without a doctor/lawyer degree and loads of money…don’t worry there are lots of Keri Hilsons/Timbalands in the world ! to get a visceral feeling of the above career advice check this video out
Love Branch Dravidian’s #105.
I think the point is that if you have a lot of self-esteem, it helps you in your day to day life…and for new immigrants, if they could muster some pride in themselves (on whatever basis, including caste) that might have made all the difference.
I grew up in this country, and although I don’t often think of my caste per se, I have to admit that at times, when dealing with non-desis, my sense of my cultural traditions, family dynamics, cultural heritage, etc. gives me a superiority complex (which may or may not be deserved) that at times mentally helps me in that situation. Yes it’s a type of arrogance. Sometime I go with it, sometimes I remind myself to be more humble.
I definitely relate to Branch Dravidian’s post. But that said, you can still travel and have meaningful life experience sans the luxury and comfort. Moreover, if you succeed at both, it’s a great exercise in character-building. If your priorities preclude the creature comforts of the middle class, more power to you! There are pros and cons on both sides and I’ve met many a doctor and lawyer who secretly admire my own renegade (if impecunious) career path. As far as having children, I think that being realistic with them about the drawbacks and advantages of a nontraditional profession is important. Being an adventurous ascetic, after all, isn’t for everyone.
It might sound simplistic, but for me, happiness is the number-one criterion when it comes to choosing a profession, whether that means mushroom hunting with extant Andean tribes or writing a novel that no one will read. And as far as societal contribution-making, maybe I’m being a Pollyanna here, but I don’t necessarily think that material accomplishments alone fulfill that goal. A society with doers is important, but it would be so empty without the dreamers.
On a lighter (and more self-aggrandising note):
Well of course none of us practice the law. We’re too busy being devastatingly fabulous literary figures! 😉
ducking for cover
Anna, I’m glad you and I are seeing eye-to-eye on this one (after the serve and volley bit); my heart was breaking otherwise. I agree–this kid should go see a therapist or a counsellor, or perhaps even (gasp!) try talking to his parents. I know that I never even took that opportunity and if I hadn’t been rocking through my Lit classes, the Econ courses I flunked out of would have been a nightmare in the long-term. As it is, I’m glad I didn’t take the law/finance/medicine route–I’m much happier doing what I currently do than I would have ever expected, but at the same time, I really do wish I’d gone and got some advice on coping and growing a bit of a spine. It’s crucial.
Amitabh caste = cheapest way to garner of self-esteem.
That should be: Amitabh, Caste = cheapest way to garner of self-esteem.
I did my undergrad in engineering and then got into to medschool. Here in Canada, you can apply to medschool from a variety of academic backgrounds. My family immigrated to Canada when I was a child. The fact that I wasn’t like the white kids was pretty much drilled into me from day one. When you see your parents who lack “Canadian experience” in relatively menial jobs (like my dad as a gas station cashier for the first 2 years), the idea that going to university to major in philosophy isn’t one of the options available to you in life is pretty much a given. I always had an aptitude for math and physics but I really didn’t like engineering. The only reason I did it was because it gave me some guarantee of having financial stability if I didn’t get into medschool. But I did well enough to get into medschool and now I relly enjoy what I’m doing.
But this brings me to my point about not having to like your courses in order to do well in it. Writing off medicine just because you didn’t do well in orgo or physics is just plain silly. I don’t know any doctors who use organic chemistry in their practice at all but orgo is simply one of the hurdles you have to clear in order to get in. Tough shit. I am personally inclined to think that LW simply lacks the work ethic. This may seem unfair but my views are informed by my own experiences. Nobody I know really thinks of orgo as being such a blast. You just do it because you have to. I am not sure what orgo or physics have to do with LW not wanting to be a doctor. Does LW not like the process or does LW not like to become a doctor? And having seen physicians with families work insane hours juggling clinic and research, I’d be the worst person to offer sympathy to a sophomore who is feeling burnt out.
Although I am quite happy with where I am, I suppose I would’ve appreciated some choice in my undergrad. But I think there are worse things in life than being first/second generation South Asian and having to live up to greater expectations from your parents. I also don’t resent my parents for the pressure that was placed on me because quite frankly I happen to agree with their reasoning. Though I’m actually from Sri Lanka and we had other reasons for leaving, we are also economic migrants to some extent. Why would we not try to maximize our chances of having a stable, secure future now that we are here?
neale, chill man. many people are proud of their origins and they’ll emphasize what they can use to signal that they are superior (on SM it quite often takes the form of trying to be subtle or even pretending as if the putative origin is problematic and something they should be ashamed of). that’s human. the easiest way to discourage is simply to ignore “brahmin-dropping.” it’s like some of my more narcissistic jewish friends rambling about how they were the chosen people all the time, best way to deal with it is to pretend they aren’t talking and simply make a reality the non-universality of their assumptiosn (or, for that matter christian evangelicals who think they are “saved,” or muslims who feel sorry for the damned “kuffar”).
…anyway, back to how law school sucks 😉
male memebers of my family have large feet. shoemakers discriminate against us. i really hate it.
As a junior in college, I totally get what this kid is going through. I wasn’t exposed to careers outside the typical realm, I didn’t know what one could do with a background in public health or development studies, etc before I got to college. When I did get here, I realized there was plethora of things I was interested in, and classes/majors/careers I wanted to explore. The thing with Indian parents is that they aren’t really open to the idea of “wasting time” exploring these things. They want you to have a pretty strict timetable of events, proposals on what you’re going to do in college and once you’re done-you might as well write it out for them…intro classes, upper divs, volunteer, mcats, med school, doctor. You should have a had a plan when you started, and you’re expected to stick to it. I don’t know about all your parents, but mine weren’t thrilled at all when I hinted to them I wanted time to figure out what I liked, study abroad, do something besides science, take a year off or stay another semester.
I get where parents going with that-Its always good to have a plan, but you gotta to be flexible and that’s what Indian parents (or mine at least) don’t get. I don’t think his crisis is a result of him wanting to do one thing and his parents pushing med school, or him obeying the wishes of his parents or anything like that. Its probably that he can’t explore his options through internships, working, classes, and so on and at the same time explain to his parents that he’s not wasting time and money. Oh and law school buys a lot of people 3 years to figure it out.
I’m getting pretty tired of folks using law school as a 3-year hiatus from having to make any hard decisions about life, as it reflects the very same attitude of the desi parents everyone seems to be griping about! I won’t call that hypocritical, but you’re getting close…
Law school, even though it is not science or engineering, does require a tremendous amount of work (ask anyone on Law Review), sleepless nights, and my darlings, once you graduate, you are not guaranteed anything if you don’t know how to network with the Big White Boys. I happen to be a little brown girl, so I had to learn that the hard way.
It’s rather insulting to those of us who are attorneys, who struggled to get where we are (I was a biochem major), but love (or at least don’t despise) what we do.
If you need a 3-year break from it all, go do something else — and leave the law school admission slots open to those who really want to be there.
Ok, I hope this isn’t too long, but here’s my opinion restated. I think a college education is important, if nothing else because it increases your options as the U.S. and global economy (for those with a higher degree) becomes more skills-skewed.
That said, if you’re going to consider/apply to law school, you better damn well know why you want to be there. If you’re doing it to make your parents happy or to “find your direction” in life, those are not good enough reasons. Figure out what you want to do and why you want to be there, because otherwise these kinds of programs, especially professional programs, will eat you alive. The best thing about grad admissions and the world today is that for many programs, academic and professional, your admissions odds are better if you come out of the work force these days. So you can “afford” to give yourself time, so to speak. If you are worried about your parents cutting you off, then aim for financial independence, at least for your B.A.
A lot of folks have been recommending going abroad, teaching English, joining the Peace Corps, etc., to find one’s way in life. As someone who very intentionally went abroad after graduating, please don’t encourage people to do this to “find themselves.” I do think going abroad, especially studying abroad, and widening your horizons is a good thing. I don’t think it’s a good thing if you’re doing it to “discover your meaning in life.”
And lastly, I do think it’s possible to find a job that speaks to what you love. It’s not a necessary condition (passion for job –> excellent work experience), but it helps. If you’re going to devote 1/3 of your productive life to work, then it helps if you enjoy it. I was lucky to have parents who gave me the following advice:
I might be lucky because my parents are semi-typical semi-untypical in their career paths. My mom is amazing — she had a business degree (a requirement of my grandfather), worked in the industry, took time off for kids, and then ended up going into her true vocation, education. My dad still has no idea what my undergraduate degree was in or what I do, really. But at the end of the day, it doesn’t matter because they know I’m happy and relatively secure, and that makes them happy.
We have a lot of assumptions and expectations about what our parents want, particularly as desis, as immigrants, and sometimes as individuals who came from elite backgrounds (at least for the post-1960s rush). I think we’d be surprised at how “untypical” our “typical” desi parents can be. Some of them want to keep up with the joneses. I think many more just want to know that there is security and safety in an uncertain world.
Why? If they couldn’t get in and someone else could, where’s the injustice? The same was said to me when I wanted to quit after graduating (not law school), but I was as entitled to be there as anyone else.
Dear Tortured Souls with Graduate Degrees:
My kid will be an athlete and make oodles of money by being hyped by a silly enough desi press which, in time, will have fine tuned English tabloid schizophrenic sensationalism so that I can unload a half-witted, partially talented dodo on desi’s with disposable income. Posters will be bought, commercials shot, royalties collected.
I am laughing, in advance, all the way to the bank and adjusting my 401k for 2030 inflation.
Regards,
Forthcoming father of forthcoming first internationally celebrated brown athlete
No more so than any other inherited metric.
umm…ask any law student, regardless of whether they are on law review…
i think this is one piece of sound advice that everybody should know. i realised this after college, and i voluntarily pulled my self out of a ‘top-level’ rat race – it’s not me, i’m not cut out for it, and i can still work in my profession without having to aim at or be at the top. i’d rather not have to keep up with the joneses, and it’s so much saner (for me) not to have to compare salaries with my friends and classmates.
No von Mises, you the smartest cookie here. Still, I bet my kid’s gonna beat your kid.
So here’s an anecdote (this is all in the context of Ohio, btw): My grandfather pushed all his kids towards the maths/sciences, but my mom hated hated hated it. She was 16 when she went to college and was living at home, so she tracked in business (the only “acceptable” non-engineering/science/math program), went to work, and became financially independent. My grandfather’s rationale for pushing his kids towards these programs, though, was that he felt there was more room for racial discrimination in programs that are qualitative than in programs that were quantitative because at the end of the day there’s an answer to a math problem set, but there are infinite essay options for English (the field my mom wanted to do). I think his concerns were entirely for his kids’ welfare. To be honest, I think the current generation is really lucky because while we face all sorts of barriers, we don’t have the same economy that our parents had (e.g. stagflation), nor do we have the same level of naked racial discrimination that they had to deal with.
ak, I’m with you on that. While the rat-race is always alluring/drawing, it’s amazing how maturity and experience can really help realign your priorities to pursue what makes you happy instead of what keeps up with the joneses.
Shivani: it’s sad that the most useless comment on this thread comes from someone in college, who could have provided an interesting perspective. If you had read the thread, you’d know that the LW clarified a few things and stated that they are already volunteering/interning at a few places and minoring in Sociology.
As for law school buying people a lot of time, it also requires a non-trivial amount of debt, but in your haste to use the word “plethora” in a comment, you apparently missed the dozen+ comments which reiterated that very valid point.
Not to start a fight or be oversensitive, but I don’t understand why shivani was singled out? She offered a perfectly reasonable anecdote. Many commenters have repeated common themes — why does that elicit derision?
I’m with hillside on this one — a lot of desi kids want to have their cake and eat it too. I’ll reiterate myself: if your parents are really so “unreasonable” that you cannot talk to them or explain a plan you have or a desire for exploration, then it’s a good idea to pursue financial independence.
Also, from an economics perspective, I really think the opportunity cost of law school is not worth it if you don’t want to be there. If you want to buy time, get a paid job where you build skills, can be independent, and can reflect on what you want to do instead of paying someone else for an education you don’t really want with a degree you may not use and a ton of debt.
my high school math teacher told me that, saying “perhaps i would be happier at a less competative school”, and my (in hindsight, immature) response was to fly off the handle. I think its a natural thought for young people to have to assume they will be the best. its probably good to think that when your in high school/college.
Because terrible advice, like “buying time with law school”, remains terrible no matter how many times it is repeated. I thought it deserved derision.
an intersting way to partially offset the opportunity cost is to take a full time job, that will pay for your law school tuition part time. (although your life will SUCK for a few years).
Michael Chopra sez “Please to be standing in line”.
Sorry, Plethora, I misunderstood why you were annoyed with her comment. I’m with you — “buying time” is stupid. Get paid for it 🙂
Puli, it’s a fine line. I had a guidance counselor in HS who was really voracious about discouraging me from doing anything “really difficult” by telling me that, because I was coming from a “ghetto district” (her words, not mine), I was naturally way too stupid/underqualified to do advanced coursework. Turns out she was just a flaming racist who ended up losing her job a year later. I’m glad I didn’t take her advice.
That said, I think it’s hard for a 19 or 20-year old to really know themselves, but my own hope would be that by your third year of college you have a better sense of your self, including an understanding of what you want to do, what you’re good at, and what you enjoy. In high school, I could understand that sense of invincibility, and it’s probably a good idea given all the “well intentioned” bad advice that kids get (the soft bigotry of low expectations?).
im still not 100% convinced of my sense of self. i plan on thinking about what i want to do “when i grow up” years from now.
I wouldn’t have guessed that given the number of HW movies aimed at kids showing a chosen one who saves the world. 😉
this thread is quite entertaining. I like to call this attack of 2ndGenAzn complex. They will eventually make a clinical term for this in another 10 years, most likely published by a white psychologist.
Everyone has some story relating to this. I think a lesson needs to be learned by 2nd gen asian americans, and not perpetuate this on the next generation.
Just as an FYI to everyone who is throwing out joining the Peace Corps to LW – a college degree is a prerequisite to joining. And they just don’t accept anyone, there is an application process. The great thing is that you can join at any time in life after colllege! All the dissatisfied attorneys out there could be digging latrines in 2 to 3 months time.
” Forthcoming father says, ‘vaat line, beta? ve are indians, only!’
nvm @ 122 – i’m going to save that i’m for my (potential) children.
camille, that was an awful guidance counselor! i once had one who made me remove an indian charm bracelet because it had a swastika on it – apparently, i was the one who didn’t realise the history of the symbol.
Just want to say I read this thread with interest and humility, was often charmed and impressed, and that, theoretically at least, I continue to learn stuff. It is often daunting and alarming to be reminded that people actually read the column and when I am unable or unwilling to be completely realistic, I take note of how sharply that failure is duly noted here and elsewhere (I am deeply loved at Gawker.com!)
In my defense, I can only say that I often work at a certain metaphorical remove — if that makes any sense — and that what I offer are experiments rather than solutions: Here, I say, I cannot possibly know what is right for a total stranger, but here is a possibility you might try, or, if not try, at least think about, always aware that what I might offer might be completely wrong, and yet, in being wrong, still be of some use — as in, at least the process of thinking and talking is of some use. And, OK, sometimes I just suck. Cheers –ct
I agree with a lot of what CdnMedStudent said in #114, except that I’m more sympathetic to LW and his/her desire not to be a doctor, and I wouldn’t say he/she lacks a work ethic either.
o.k. people. We have all stated our similar experiences. Any ideas on how to not perpetuate these same “mistakes” on our children? Also, many of us 1.5 gen’ers have parents living here who will, no doubt, try to influence our grandkids as well.
You meant vociferous 😛
Reasoner, I guess both would work although I’m sure the latter is more accurate from a context standpoint 🙂 [voracious as in eager/avid about discouraging me, vociferous in that she was noisy and clammoring about it as well]
ak, she was certainly full of suck.
And you are in i-banking sales now? Do you also promote sub prime mortgages? 🙂
yes
nah. i dont really cover mortgage products.
OMFG, enufs enuf. we refuz to be opressd by ur unreznble dmandz for spellin and isht!!11 Who carz if Camill sed “vorashus”. LOLOL ur toolz f u car.
why leave it to the white guys to milk this. any therapists in the room that would like to write a book o this and get famous?
the beautiful thing is that i was pre-med in college. did the whole program. took the mcat. filled out my med school application. only then did i decide that i didnt want to have a career for my parents sake. a decade later, people in my community still think im a failure who couldnt make it in medicine, so is doing some mediocre job in a bank (they think im a teller or something).
Why therapists? Wait till Deepak Chopra gets to know of this and comes out with a new book on it.
thats a good idea. i clearly dont want to buy spirituality, so i must want to sell it. by the sound of things, there are plenty of buyers. i should kick it el ron hubbard style.
Puli, my (tambrahm) ex-bf did the same thing, only he actually attended the first week of med school!