After a very well attended meetup in NYC, the Meetup Road Tour makes its way to San Francisco this weekend.
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| Sunday, August 26 | San Francisco |
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3pm — ??? Café Greco 423 Columbus Ave |
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Parking’s a pain in North Beach but, Brimful (bless her soul) pointed out a nearby parking garage for the folks driving in. Other places to find a spot include the many garages in Union Square and / or street parking in SOMA / Fin District. From there, it’s easy to walk / taxi / cable car it over. It ain’t that far.
Incorporating some cues / feedback from NYC, we’re going to experiment a bit with the format of the SF meetup…
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Desi Boyz in SF apparently need a lot of dating advice. That topic will surely come up… |
A few highlights –
- Location — SF’s meetup is going to be at a relatively good sized coffee house with a far more open layout
- Time — The meetup will be on a lazy Sunday afternoon; our contention for the space (if any) will more likely be against random North Beach tourists vs. focused, club-clad New Yorkers
- Nametags — I’ll be distributing ’em and you folks will decorate ’em with your RealNames and/or Handles ; a nametag in a coffee house isn’t quite the dorkbadge that one would be at an NYC bar.
- Intros — After badging in, we’ll announce the new folk’s presence and get ’em to toss up a tidbit or 2 of introductory trivia
- Discussion— Expect some focused discussion of the more fun, recent SM posts including the 1000commentMonster (there were few commentors who had, uh, interesting opinions on the SF scene that I’m hoping to meet). It shouldn’t be anything too intense, just scan the past couple of weeks of posts and hopefully a few will pique your interest enough to be Sepia literate…
Of course, above all we’ll just try to have fun with our fellow geeks-in-arms. And don’t worry, if the structure starts getting oppressive, we’ll quickly abandon it and resume old fashioned small talk. Desi’s know small talk.
dispite the fantasy i was amusing myself with on this blog. that really isnt my MO.
why the heck dont i meet such women? geez.
they are probably @ssh0les cause they are incented to be assh0les. it probably works. they probably get a lot of…cause they r hansome, so dont really need a personality.
Alas, you’re probably right about this. Perhaps I’m in the minority of women who think that if a handsome man is disrespectful and lacking in manners, he may as well be Carrot Top, for all I care. 🙂
HMF, if only a ring was enough to stop men (and women) from hooking up/cheating …..
one of my friends once spent a whole day bragging to me about how he f*cked xyz’s w!fe. made me sick to the stomach.
one of my friends once spent a whole day bragging to me about how he f*cked xyz’s w!fe. made me sick to the stomach.
I was pretty close to that opportunity myself, as difficult as it was, I turned it down though. what goes around comes around
Does anyone know what a “your comment text is not allowed” error is? I looked for open HTML tags, etc., but no luck.
Puli, I think that’s precisely why attractive guys (and girls for that matter) tend to be ass-hats.
I think part of looking attractive is to be attractive to oneself as well, HMF. Sometimes women like to look good for themselves, not just for the other 1/2 of the species 🙂 Also, you’d be amazed at how many guys will hot on a girl when her date is away. (getting through masses of bodies can take a long time, as can waiting in a restroom line).
Puli, you rock.
There’s a difference between wanting to be perceived as pretty, having it together, fit, etc. and being on the prowl. I got married a few months ago and have yet to exchange my cute skirts for polyester slacks. My husband married me because he likes who I am, and I dress the way I do because it fits my personality and makes me feel good.
It sounds like you have a really specific idea of how married/taken women are supposed to behave. My decision to have a lifelong partner in crime didn’t come with riders on how I’m supposed to dress!
Yeah, and let me list some of the behaviors I’ve seen men read as “screaming ‘come talk to me/grab my @ss/make obscene gestures at me'”:
Talking to a friend Reading in a coffee shop Walking down the street Tying my shoes Cleaning up after my dog Running for the train
And yes, standing at a bar alone. Because being alone in a bar (even if it’s just because your husband is running late or in the bathroom) is like wearing a neon sign that says ‘I NEED SEX’, right? Yeesh.
Okay, then I amend my language. Gorgeous? Beautiful? Comely? And I didn’t say “dressing for other women” is to make them jealous. I think there’s an interesting, albeit unintentional, homoerotic satisfaction a woman gets when another woman checks her out. Also, just because I’m in a relationship, it doesn’t mean that I don’t admire beauty in both other men and women. You can do so without wanting to either date or screw the person. I also think that in some ways, wanting to appear desirable to other people, regardless of whether you are in a relationship or not, is natural to both men and women. Whenever a man on the street stops me just to say he thinks I’m beautiful, I’m flattered–of course, when that’s accompanied by crass sexual innuendo and blatant disrespect, that’s a different story.
Ha ha!! I gotta admit–this made me LOL. Actually, more often than not, he goes outside to smoke. A disgusting habit he’s trying to break. I don’t think I’m a particularly flirtatious person, either. I’m actually excruciatingly shy, so my mannerisms aren’t that inviting. To get the record straight, I don’t think the men who approach me are generally assholes–having to deal with that aspect of bar/club life gets to be a bit laborious, though, which is why I said I no longer frequent them (unless it’s the happy hour scene with the impregnable fortress of friends).
Well, he’s my long-term boyfriend but we only got engaged in March, at which time neither of us was really into the bar scene. Funny thing is that I seem to get approached now more than ever, which is odd–I thought that “taken” men were attractive to women, but not vice-versas. I don’t have a diamond rock either (don’t believe in ’em), and people don’t seem to take my modest sapphire piece very seriously.
the reason i like to dress well, i maintly for myself. i can understand that.
Unless, of course, it IS intentional… 🙂
Other than that… what Satya and Camille said.
guys take anything as a signal that a grl wants to f-ck them. its how we get through our day. dont take that too seriously…
Oh, that’s so true. Girl-on-girl check-out and outfit flattering can honestly be such a great “pick me up” (meant in the sense of a sunny day, not flirting) kinda compliment. Oh, and what’s wrong with wanting to look good for your (married) SO? I think there’s something nice about that, too.
sarah, I totally LOL’d at your list because it is so true. My friend and I joke about how we must look too approachable, so we’ve had to cultivate “F— off” faces… but that means that the guys who approach us (when we’re wearing said faces) are that much crazier.
they might think you look “sultry” and like you like to “be on top” and hence hit on you. guys are h0rny all the time. best to assume thats always the case.
Amen to that, Sarah. Luckily, I personally haven’t experienced the obscenity that much in bars (I seem to get that on the street more than anywhere else), but I’ve definitely noticed that when I’m unaccompanied, that’s sometimes seen as a sexual invitation, for whatever reason. The defensiveness and downright nastiness that’s associated with this behavior is also particularly frustrating. I’ve gotten a great deal of “fuck you, bitch” and “you ain’t all that” remarks whilst running to catch my train as well, because I didn’t turn around to talk to some guy.
The problem usually occurs when THEY take it too seriously.
For real, the other day some dudes in a fancy pick up truck pulled up next to me and a random East Asian woman who were walking down the street. They started hitting on us and saying all this racist stuff to the Asian woman. I started yelling at them, and they actually got mad when I didn’t take it as a compliment. It got ugly… bch, ct, they even called me the n-word (which was odd, since I am white) and started threatening me. And that’s not really terribly unusual, although this was one of the worst incidents. Some guys think their fantasies are real, and get very very upset when they realize you aren’t playing.
Camille, On behalf of the married SMers out here – thanks
After reading HMFs comment I was half wondering if the correct dress code for married SM ( women) mutineers at the next meet up is sans makeup, stricly no-label clothing 🙂 ( no lipstick for you, you are married!!) .The hilarious bit about this , is in Delhi at least if you are married you HAVE to have lipstick on.As someone who rarely wears lipstick, this was beaten into me by mom-in-law, aunts etc etc
Yeah, exactly!! You’re a stuck-up bitch if you want to, you know, go about your life without stopping to stroke some idiot’s ego. Because you obviously don’t have anything better to do.
Argh. I don’t have a car, and this has gone from an annoyance to a serious problem where I live (Fishtown, in Philly). Note to random strangers: think whatever you want to think inside your head, but leave me out of it!
And yes, standing at a bar alone. Because being alone in a bar (even if it’s just because your husband is running late or in the bathroom) is like wearing a neon sign that says ‘I NEED SEX’, right? Yeesh.
And that’s exactly what I said, right? Because ‘come talk to me’ = ‘i need sex’ Seriously, its bullshit exaggerations like this that really get my noodle. If you want to be taken seriously, try and represent what the other person is saying accurately.
I got married a few months ago and have yet to exchange my cute skirts for polyester slacks. My husband married me because he likes who I am, and I dress the way I do because it fits my personality and makes me feel good.
It’s these types of attempts to explain away things that really make me lose faith in female logic entirely (if it ever existed in the first place) ‘fits your personality’? sorry, but this comes off a bit vague. I can understand it if you do it when you go together, but when you do it going out with other females? it just strikes me as odd.
I met a 40 year old woman in LA who got a facelift and she pulled this ‘makes me feel good’ sh*t there too. (although face lift is a bit more extreme than just makeup) It was obvious she did it for her husband, so he’d not stray away towards the younger women. Just admit shit.
Whenever a man on the street stops me just to say he thinks I’m beautiful, I’m flattered
Here you make it seem as its something that just occurs, without any proactive measures on your part, But I’m talking about actively deciding to use makeup, dress as one did before they became hitched.. the only explanation is one does it to receive this flattery? Some kind of ego-feeding?
” guys are h0rny all the time.”
That’s why they come so soon when they finally get it.
ok….then dont take it too seriously when I think you all want me. its how I get through MY day.
thats why they say, a hard man is good to find….errr…wait. no. thats not what they say..
I read this and went in to full-on “Akka” mode and started hissing about how them bitches don’t deserve you anyway and you’re better off without someone so inflexible/shallow.
I used to do it, too. Insist that dream guy had to be a min of 6 feet tall, because that means I’ll get 5’10…which is what I had as my “floor”. Ah, code-breaking matrimonial ads/website profiles…god times. Before ankle-hell, I lived in 3-4″ heels and that’s how tall I am in heels- 5’10. One of my closest friends in college dated a guy who was exactly one inch taller than she was…and he used to give her so much shit if she didn’t wear flats, because he had such a complex about it. I’m glad they broke up.
Anyway, it made me not want to have anything to do with someone who is THAT insecure or consumed with their height, so yeah, 5’10 = solid. BUT. One of my favorite bfs of all time was 5’7. His first email to me caused much swooning and after that, it was on, I’ll never forget those butterflies. By the time he showed up at Strada, I forgot how tall either of us was–our first date was magic.
If it’s good, it’s good, height be damned. You need the girl who is going to be so excited about your sense of humor, your attentiveness and your other awesome qualities, that everything she thought she wanted goes out the fucking window when she realizes how fantastic you are…and vise versa.
/akka mode
Sarah 169,
I just saw that you live in Fishtown, I used to live a couple of years back in Old City and had many friends in Fishtown. It was getting slowly gentrified. Do you feel that way about the neighborhood?
sarah, so true. Some men get super nasty/scary when I don’t return their advances. I was like, “Seriously? Do you really think that all of a sudden I’m going to go: ‘Oh, I didn’t think you were sexy before, but now I am soooo hot for you!'”
Puli, that would totally explain why crazy guys are being hyper-explicit when they approach me. Although to be honest, I could have a plastic expression on my face, and I’m sure someone would give me crap.
HMF, I’m just baffled by your expectations of women and their motivations in their choices re: dress/style.
This is funny to me because I’ve read a lot of snarky commentary from men who complain that their wives aren’t sexy, don’t wear makeup, and don’t dress the way they used to before the two got married. Newsflash: men and women still feel a need to be attractive to each other, even after they’re hitched. Why can’t you understand this?
As far as looking nice in environments outside one’s relationship, I think I’d be disingenuous if I said that it wasn’t partially about flattery or ego-feeding. Then again, I feel the same way when someone makes a comment about my creativity or intelligence. Also, women are largely perceived and judged on the basis of their looks, so while that may not be something I agree with, it’s extremely difficult to extricate yourself from it altogether. I work in the advertising sector and I definitely have noticed that people in this field tend to treat you better when you’re “dolled up” vs. casual Fridays, when you’re clad in jeans and sneakers, sans makeup (like me today, for instance–dressing up can be tedious at times).
Really, that was unnecessary.
good in theory. not in practice.
Why exactly do you think they want to come and talk to us? To hear our thoughts on politics and literature?
First of all, there’s no such thing as ‘female logic’. There’s logic, and women use it just like men do.
Second, how can you say that without knowing how I dress? I’m not really given to halter tops and red stilettos and the like. I tend to wear jeans, denim skirts, and fitted t-shirts (funny/political slogans a plus), plus chunky glasses. Yes, I wear that sort of thing when going out with other women, with my husband, with mixed groups of friends, you name it. That’s what I’m wearing at work right now. Is that modest enough for you? I mean, what should I wear, a burlap sack? Seriously, you need to consider the idea that women, while under social pressure to be ‘pretty’, also wear things and do things for our own reasons that have nothing to do with whatever random man might be looking at us at that moment.
It seems like changing your wardrobe entirely would be a much more ‘active’ decision than keeping it the same. I’ve had corporate jobs where I was required to wear makeup, and days when I have bad skin and wear it to cover up, and sometimes I just wear it because it matches my outfit. Didn’t realize wearing lipstick would be taken as an active request for sex. I better tell my grandma, she wears it every day.
And yes, it DOES ‘just occur.’ I get stopped on the street when I’m wearing sweats and a baggy T-shirt and no makeup. It happens because men feel like it’s perfectly OK for them to comment on women’s looks without invitation, not because women are ‘feeding our egos’. And for the record, it’s one thing to be politely complimented, but hoots and grabs on the street? NOT FUN. NOT EGO-FEEDING. Most women are embarrassed, annoyed, sometimes even threatened by it. If you’re approaching a woman on the street, you have NO IDEA whether the last five guys who approached her were polite, or obscene, or even violent.
Then again, the Iranian religious police have come up with a great way to solve street harassment…
oh, baby! plastic! yeah! yeah!thats SO hot!….never mind.
Maybe it was the biancha mocha that did it, not him 😉 [so kidding, I just love Strada. Sigh]
OY. Listen, kozhandai…when you’re my age, then you get to be bitter and cynical. Believe– she’s out there.
As my mother used to annoy the shit out of me by repeating endlessly, “Obwiously the time is not right for you to meet…(dun, dun DUN)…the vun. Maybe you are not ready yet. If you met them, it would not work. Go fix vatewer is wrong vith you, because this is getting boring”-etc. 😉
Brown, I definitely do. We’ve been there a little over a year and the restaurants, art galleries, etc. are popping up all over the place. The rents are still affordable (that’s why we live there) but they tower over what they were a few years ago.
There’s still a big drug problem in the neighborhood, and there’s also a lot of resentment between the folks who’ve grown up there and the hip new crowd. The hip new crowd is also much more diverse, and while Fishtown has come a long way (from what I understand) there’s still a lot of racism.
I was into it for a while, but I’ve been through enough lately that I’m ready to get out of there and flee to West Philly where my friends live!
Exactly the distinction I was trying to make.
Bingo. Sartorial choices are an amalgam of lots of stuff. Maybe on an unconscious level, they are about “attracting” others, but it’s simplistic to reduce it to exclusively that motive.
Some of the most vile, repulsive, blatantly sexual stuff I’ve ever encountered from men hasn’t been when I was dressed up and out with the girls, but rather, when I was modestly garbed and minddng my own beeswax.
Sarah,
Thanks for your response, that is what I had thought of the neighborhood when I was there. Although parts of West Philly are really nice but I really liked living in Old City with all the galleries and the nice restaurants.
Brown, I’m with you– I like Old City a lot but the rents are totally out of my reach!
Sarah,
Following up on my earlier post, I am not sure what your budget is, but there are some really nice affordable places, my building was an old factory converted into apartments and it was reasonable, it was on second and race. I am not sure what the scene now is, it used to be managed by Brandywine. Hopefully you will get to your comfort zone fast. Now back to regular programming 🙂
That’s what I’m wearing at work right now. Is that modest enough for you? I mean, what should I wear, a burlap sack? Seriously, you need to consider the idea that women, while under social pressure to be ‘pretty’, also wear things and do things for our own reasons that have nothing to do with whatever random man might be looking at us at that moment.
No, thats exactly what I’m not saying in fact. I was just pointing out a logical flaw in continuing to do certain actions that were primarily for the attraction of men, after that goal has been satisfied.
And for the record, it’s one thing to be politely complimented, but hoots and grabs on the street? NOT FUN. NOT EGO-FEEDING. Most women are embarrassed, annoyed, sometimes even threatened by it.
Please point out where I said hoots and grabs were acceptable? Or where did I even broach this subject at all? This is what Im talking about when I say misrepresentation.
I made the comment about being approached while in the line for a bathroom, and only suggested that because its such a short time window, there might be something particular about Satya that says to a guy “hey come to talk to me”
Secondly.. I will make a general comment however.. not related to any one persons anecdote here.
When a woman does dress provocatively, they are indeed sending out the message, “I am sexy”, not “I need sex” but “I am someone who it’s beneficial to have sex with” does this authorize gropes and grinds and lift up by thighs? NO, again I’ll say it: NO IT DOES NOT. However, you cannot come back with the ‘deer in the headlights’ look with “what what?” when you see and hear signs that a guy is ‘thinking’ about it.? When that is the clear goal. Get me?
So it’s somewhat confusing to see a married woman, without her husband in a club engaging in this kind of action.. that’s the point I was trying to make.
If anyone else has meetup-related questions, ask them now, I’m getting ready to close this thread.
I read an account somewhere of a FTM person that post-op, he noticed that the frequency of his daily thoughts about sex multiplied manifold. Not an attempt to justify sexual assault or obnoxious behavior, but biology and hormones may play a not insignificant part in this. Is razib around? 🙂
way to stay on topic…
Attempting to fit logic to the recondite, endlessly cthonic realm of sexuality is futile. There is nothing logical about the terrain of sexuality. Absolutely nothing.
As it’s been mentioned before, a woman simply being by herself sends the “message” that she’s fair game. And as I mentioned before, I’m quite shy and positively lacking in feminine wiles, so I don’t think that I’m responsible for men hitting on me despite the fact that I’m with someone else.
Perhaps, but this begs the question: why is it that so many women tend to be approached NOT when they’re dressed provocatively but when they’re donning their least sexy duds, walking the dog, etc.? And I’m curious–you don’t feel that physical assault is ever warranted, but what about verbal abuse or inappropriate comments? Do you feel that just kind of comes with the territory of the nightclub?
All right, I guess no one cares to discuss the actual topic– time to close.
Sorry, SM intern. Don’t know how this mushroomed…I keep breaking that New Year’s resolution of refraining from tangents.
I can answer all of these points in email if you want. i generally want to respect the wishes of the mods about staying on topic.