Are you in an Aviyal Relationship?

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sindoor.jpg My baby cousin at UCLA still hasn’t forgiven me for joining Facebook. His objection is not that I’m too old for it or that I lessen its “cool factor” with my elderly presence—he just hates the program and apparently I was the last person he knew and cared about, who was not on it. That had more to do with pragmatic causes than most anything else; I was happy on Friendster and consummately preferred it to MyAss or the more “global”/Brazilian Orkut. I didn’t have time to maintain profiles on a plethora of time-sucks. And most relevant of all, I couldn’t be bothered to get an “alumni” email addy from either of the schools I managed to graduate from…and once upon a time, you needed such official stuff to participate in the Facebook-orgy.

Not anymore. And so a few of you began inviting me to join it and I pointedly ignored such requests…until one of you was Facebook-stalking a guy you thought was sooo cute.

“What’s his friendster link?”, I asked.

“He’s not ON friendster…he’s only on Facebook!”

“Well, then I can’t see him.”

“But you just HAVE to see this one picture…I have a feeling you know his friend.”

“You know how I’ve never been a bridesmaid?”

“Yeah what does that have to do with anything??”

“I’m signing up for this bullshit right now, so A) you best marry his ass and B) I best be in some sort of poufy outfit, twitching out of boredom on an altar in a year or three.”

“Omg, whatever you want, just SIGN UP”…and so I did. But I didn’t bother uploading a pic or filling out my profile, not for a while. Then, I was asked to write something about social networking and I needed more information about FB, specifically a sense of how intuitive it was to use. I noticed, upon logging in, that I had been “poked” approximately 40 times. I also noticed that several of my far-flung friends were considerably more active and in touch on FB than they were on Fster. This puzzled me until I realized that they were destroying all of their free time defenestrating each other via “SuperPoke”, proving their music IQ via some guessing game which was far superior to the one on my iPod and playing Scrabble online via the hyper-addictive “Scrabulous”.

Well, I saw her Facebook…and now I’m a believer. I will happily eat the words which initially expressed indifference towards this program. The recent app explosion transformed FB for me, from a site to ignore to one which I am now constantly logged in to…which brings me to this post.

Now that I am spending a ton of time on there, my inner, dilettante-sociologist is hyper-stimulated. There’s so much to discover, like…

  • How annoying today’s youths in high school are (incoherent and illiterate comments on group walls)
  • How thousands of others also speak shitty Malayalam (via the Ende Malayalam Sucks group)
  • How several of you first discovered SM! (via the SM Group, natch)
  • How people are utilizing Web 2.0 to create support groups for Inter-desi relationships (!!!)

Here, read all about it. I’ll post the group’s “description” for you:

Aviyal Couples Type: Common Interest – Dating & Relationships

Description: This group (also a support group) is for all the desi people that are in a relationship (dating, engaged or married) where your partner is Indian but is from a different state in India or is from a different religion or caste. This type of relationship can’t be called interracial, so it can be called an ‘Aviyal Relationship’

For example: An Indian from Mumbai is in a relationship with an Indian from Bihar or an Indian from Tamil Nadu is in a relationship with an Indian from Kerala e.t.c or an Indian who is Hindu is in a relationship with an Indian who is a Christian or an Indian who is a Jain is in a relationship with an Indian who is a Brahmin e.t.c
* Aviyal – a south indian vegetable curry that has a mix of different vegetables. [Facebook]

I didn’t even realize there was a term for this situation—one I have been in for almost half of my dating life. While I tried valiantly to date Malayalee boys, “just to make it easier” on all 349 people who were potentially involved with such an alliance, I went to a college that had no Malayalee male undergrads and didn’t attend our local (read: more than 100 miles away) Syriac Orthodox church. I was far more likely to encounter Punjabi Sikh guys at U.C. Davis/Fresno/Modesto/Yuba City and predictably, that is what I often dated.

I had been making Aviyal all the way through college and I had been oblivious to it!

Whether by circumstance, i.e. being one of a handful of South Indians at a school dominated by Northies or by choice, i.e. just plain falling for someone, this is a cocktail we will see more and more of, no matter what our respective parents think of such emotional collisions. One of you, who comments regularly, is a Tamil married to a Punjabi; sometimes, the comments which inform me of this detail also contain other bits of information, which illustrate how challenging such a union is. I’m assuming both parties involved are probably Hindu, which makes things nominally easier, but when you add interreligious components to the conflict…sometimes, that is exactly what you get: conflict.

When one of the only Malayalee girls I grew up with got married about a decade ago (she was a bit older than us…because I remember that even her younger brother was two years older than me), it caused quite a stir, since she, a Namboodiri, had fallen in love with a Mallu Christian she had met at school. This was the source of much discussion and concern, as our parents pondered whether this was a harbinger of their own future disappointment.

Years later, I felt compassion for her, once I realized what the “odds” were like…it’s difficult enough finding a match who is Malayalee, finding one who is Mallu and of the same faith narrows the pool considerably—especially when you take caste or in the case of Christianity, multiple denominations in to account. It may seem counterintuitive, since Kerala’s Christians comprise a disproportionate share of Malayalee Americans, but yes, it’s hard to find a suitable boy. My father never forgave the Catholic church for what they did in the 17th century, so the thought of me marrying one was inconceivable. MarThomites were out because they were anti-feminist-Mary-haters who shamelessly chose not to revere the dead. 😉

We were fiercely Orthodox and unlike many Malayalee couples, both of my parents were Orthodox; my mother didn’t “convert” to marry him. So for me, Orthodox it would have to be.

Do you have any idea how many single Orthodox Malayalee boys there are in America, who are over the age of 32?

Approximately two.

I have a Sikh friend who is a few years older than me, who is also single, because he’s rather Orthodox himself, and most Sikh girls he encounters want someone sans beard and turban. One of you posted a NYT Vows link recently, all because the groom was Muslim and the bride was Hindu and yes, I’ll admit my non-existent eyebrows rose heavenwards upon reading it, because that’s what I’m conditioned to do. We are marinating in aviyal, whether we know it or not (pass me the drumsticks, btw…and keep the arbi to your damned self).

I’ll probably end up in an “aviyal”-marriage of my own, so I confess that I’m partially motivated to explore this aspect of growing up in the diaspora, out of self-interest. But I also remember a certain thread where it was brought up quite a few times, so I know it’s on your mind, too, along with potheads on celluloid and Shah Rukh Khan-endorsed colorism. If you have your own thoughts to add about aviyal, sambar or rasam relationships, speak.

There are many mutinies within which we can participate; the struggles associated with dating “outside” of the precise group we were born in to, perhaps more than any other uprising, often involve the most upheaval and anguish, even if one’s intended is also a shade of Sepia.

723 thoughts on “Are you in an Aviyal Relationship?”

  1. To get back on the main topic of the post, my girlfriend of seven years is a Catholic and I am Punjabi. There has been no resistance from either side as both they families have had a history of mixed relationships. If we ever decide to settle down together we have decided to have both a Catholic and a Hindu wedding and the kids to be raised both as Catholics and Hindus till they are old enough to decide for themselves, they will be baptized in addition to the Punjabi ceremony in the Gurudwara.

  2. Puliogre,

    I appreciate your honesty as I think you are one of the funnier people here who doesn’t take everything too seriously. I also learn a lot but hardly comment, it is great to find common ground with ABD and learn about the issues of ABD which I had no idea about.

  3. no. 512

    Also, my signals are totally crossed, because until this B’wood party [link]

    Please tell me that you weren’t referring to SM as “this B’wood party”. Please.

    beats head against desk

  6. *beats head against desk*

    I’ve heard of knocking on wood, but this is ridiculous.

    Well, maybe the “B’wood party” idea was spawned by the photo of Rai & Bachchan (neither of whom btw I recognized until the comment section made me go and look back).

    Anna, did you know that the hottest food at Bollywood parties is paneer dosa with sour cream and mayo?

  8. Booze merely turns latent d*cks into blatant d*cks. Good guys stay cool, drunk or sober.

    Shodan, Rob & Puli, this is where I disagree (comment #539). Not everybody becomes louder and more obnoxious with alcohol. Some just become quieter (while becoming more confused at an equal rate), some keep drinking until they quietly fall asleep, and some keep drinking until they fall over.

    Having seen too many types, I’m not convinced that drinking ethanol beyond a threshold (or at all) automatically makes a person dry hump the furniture (figuratively speaking).

  9. For Chachaji, though my memory is slightly fuzzy:

    “I feel like I’m both.”

    “Both South and North Indian?”

    “Well…my family is Tamil, but I’m from Bombay.”

    “Come on, where’s your loyalty! Dosas! Dosas are the best.”

    “I do love dosas. I am a dosa…I’m like…a paneer dosa. North and South.”

    “EVERYONE. Henceforth, CoffeeFace shall be known by the nickname, “paneer dosa”, which is a food that totally grosses me out, but I find the metaphor hilarious and endearing. Good one, Paneer Dosa…”

    “Um, yeah…”

    “Can I just call you PD?”

    -from DC meetup # 6

  10. Many Rajasthani Hindus also eat together from a communal thali.

    If this is true, it tends to support the view that the particular ritualized form of commensalism which involves eating off a shared plate arises in the arid parts of the world, or at least, that the taboo associated with eating off a shared plate can be more easily sustained in areas with plenty of water. I’m on a bit of a limb here, of course, so other views welcome. So Ethiopia, Somalia, Arabia, Rajasthan all may have cultures involving eating from a communal thali, and the common thing there is that they are all arid lands.

  11. Well, maybe the “B’wood party” idea was spawned by the photo of Rai & Bachchan (neither of whom btw I recognized until the comment section made me go and look back).

    Is there a more apposite picture for the post? I can’t think of a young aviyal couple who are more famous than these two. I keep hearing people refer to them as, “the Brangelina of India”, which kinda makes me gag, but okay.

    ANNA, I don’t think Aadarshani was equating SM to a B’wood party. I think she was literally talking about a college-based B’wood (theme) party.

    Oh, thanggawd. Abhi would have been so pissed. 😉

  12. I can’t think of a young aviyal couple who are more famous than these two.

    And Mrs.Bachan Jr. seems to be striking it big in Hollywood. I will not be surprised if I find people talking about Bachwarya (can someone come up with a better name please) in the western media soon, specially after he was the nice husband accompanying her to the sets this week.

  13. “the Brangelina of India”, which kinda makes me gag, but okay.

    Gag is the word. Is this your revenge for the whole dosa with mayo thing?

    Is there a more apposite picture for the post?

    I don’t know about more famous, but the pic itself is not immediately associated with avial – as was discussed upthread, both the bride and groom are more closely identified with Bollywood than with their respective native regions. What about (for instance) Arundhati Roy’s parents? Or Salman Rushdie and Padma Lakshmi (when they were together that is)?

  14. camille, i’m gulp 18. why?

    (damn, i feel young, which is ironic because i feel so much older after having gone away for college and come back and seeing all our family friends’ kids growing up too)

  15. (damn, i feel young, which is ironic because i feel so much older after having gone away for college and come back and seeing all our family friends’ kids growing up too)

    again. my mental picture. completely wrong.

  16. Bachwarya (can someone come up with a better name please):

    I thought they are known as Abhiwarya in the Indian tabloids……

  18. Pingpong, Perhaps I wasn’t clear. Alcohol does not turn everyone into enormous Richards. Some already have the potential but common sense, fear etc. come in the way of “self-actualization”. Cool stay cool, mellow get mellower and on and on it goes.

  20. CaRG, Thanks for all the details you gave me. I’ll be glad to have a child like you in future… liberal, agnostic, intelligent and witty. You have made me very happy and hopeful! Yeah, I really like the multicultural aspect of our marriage, and I love cooking both mallu and bong food (and ahem..Italian, Japanese, indian, mexican, chinese). You are very welcome to come to my place and I can make you some mean meen curry or macher jhol for that matter. Funny that me and hubstar are tending towards veggie now but can’t give up sea-food I think.

    About the aviyal guy you heard of, go for it girl, and check out the chemistry. Interestingly almost all my college mates in India are in aviyal relationship/marriage (unless they opt for arranged marriage), although inter-religious is less common. Urmilla @475 points out the exact technique for that. I feel parents in US are more conservative than in India now, because they are frozen in the time/values of the period they left in India. Any comments on that mutineers ?

    ak @503, that sounds really difficult. But I think religious upbringing in India varies from state to state and family to family. My family did not have much rituals, except mom did some stuff on her own for which we got good food, so I liked it ;). But I used to get some lectures (ranged from fascinating to boring) from parents from time to time on the philosophical aspects of scriptures.

  21. again. my mental picture. completely wrong.

    Me too! Could we have some sort of “Introduce yourself” thread that is always kept open where we can all give basic info (A/S/L or equivalent) that newbies and lurkers can check as a resource? Speaking as a recent delurker myself (about 30 days), I would have found that very useful to keep a clear mental image of regular posters.

  24. funny, i had thot that for Puli 😉 I keed I keed

    my last grlfriend used to joke that id make a good house wife. “you know how to cook and like cleaning. now all we need is an apron and a duster”

  25. And Mrs.Bachan Jr. seems to be striking it big in Hollywood. I will not be surprised if I find people talking about Bachwarya (can someone come up with a better name please) in the western media soon,

    A lil off topic. But I highly doubt it. Last Legion was a huge flop. She has very little name recognition here. Pretty girls are dime a dozen in Hollywood.

  27. A lil off topic. But I highly doubt it. Last Legion was a huge flop. She has very little name recognition here. Pretty girls are dime a dozen in Hollywood.

    most of them arent THAT pretty. geez.

  36. “I feel parents in US are more conservative than in India now, because they are frozen in the time/values of the period they left in India. Any comments on that mutineers ?”

    couldn’t agree with you more. All of my cousins in India are in aviyal relationships/marriages. My sis are I are expected to follow the rule from when my parents were growing up in India. To tell you the truth, I actually don’t mind their rules about this issues. I feel like they are the greatest parents in the world. They have struggled so much in there life to get where they are. Even though almost every Indian parent says this, I sincerely believe that the only reason they sacrificed so much was to make sure that their kids have a good future. What I am trying to say is that if abiding by their rules (which is not half as bad as it sounds..they are actually quite accomodating in most things) means that they are happy, then its not even an issue for me.

  38. Yeah, who in Salman Rushdie’s gene pool would oppose him bringing Padma Lakshmi home?

  39. I wish I had liberal relatives back in the motherland or even here, to make it easier on me/less shocking to my parents. Umm I think my mother has a cousin who moved to the U.S. way before we did and married a white woman. And his brother also moved here way back when and married a Punjabi woman. But she’s pretty much lost touch with that branch. Oh well, as time goes by and people we know marry non-desis and have aviyal relationships, hopefully it won’t be such a big deal. Haha, I already opened my mother’s eyes to the fact that desi kids my age here DO date and have boyfriends, etc., and it wasn’t that shocking — she is like the opposite of a gossip-mongering desi auntie; she’s convinced that everyone else’s kids are perfect.

  40. BariBarsi @ 595,

    I agree with you that there is no harm at all if you find the right person within the same state/religious community, but it definitely depends on the person. I always had a problem envisioning myself having romantic/hot conversation in my mother tongue with someone. As someone has put it earlier here, it seems like my mothertongue is some sort of a code language I speak to only my parents and some very close relative. It’s strange, but I am like that.

  41. As a queer desi woman who has been with her partner for the past 11 years (we met in college), I find it hilarious when people ask us whether the Hindu-Muslim thing is a challenge for us..I’m Indian and was born into a Hindu family but consider myself agnostic now and my partner is Pakistani and Muslim…so in many ways we are transcending the boundries of ethnicity, religion and sexual norms…To us, our struggle hasn’t been about our differences of religion or nationality, but our similarity as being women…while i totally understand and respect the experiences of many of the avvial couples who have been posting on the board, at least you all get to legally marry anywhere in the world..whereas we are not only struggling with issues around immigration, family and societal acceptance, we are further constrained by not even having the right to marry…just thought i’d put in my 2 cents on an interesting discussion…

    btw, other famous bollywood couples include shahrukh and gauri (hindu/muslim), hritik roshan and suzzane (the same)…

  42. “it seems like my mothertongue is some sort of a code language I speak to only my parents and some very close relative”

    haha…i agree with you. English would have to be the primary language in that dept. On the other hand, when it comes to music, food etc you can’t beat the native tongue.

  43. The funny thing is that though I know enough of “aviyal” and interracial marriages I haven’t encountered any 2nd generation desis with for instance South American desis, who emigrated in the 19th century to work on the plantations. Is it the same elsewhere? The South American(specifically Surinam) desis aren’t considered “real” desis by the DBD/2nd gen crowd because their religious practices are more outdated or dissimilar to Hindu practices from the Desh, and because their social norms are much looser(dating/pre-marital sex is very common in that crowd).

  44. btw, other famous bollywood couples include shahrukh and gauri (hindu/muslim), hritik roshan and suzzane

    Aamir Khan & Reena Dutta, Aamir Khan & Kiran Rao.

  46. Also, Malaika Arora Khan (she’s the product of an aviyal marriage) & Arbaaz Khan. Bipasha Basu & John Abraham. (not married yet) Fardeen Khan & Natasha Madhwani. Mahesh Bhatt is the product of a Hindu-Muslim marriage.

    You will find many examples in Bollywood, but methinks the work environment tends to be the common glue that helps hold the differences together (or makes them less relevant).

  47. Oh that reminds me, I know an Indian-American guy who married an Indo-Trinidadian girl. But yeah, it seems that in general the former community ‘looks down’ on the latter community, but in my experience, 2nd-gens are much less prejudiced in that regard.

    I don’t know about desis in Surinam, but I know the ones from Trinidad and Guyana consider themselves Indo-Caribbean as opposed to Latino (because they are geographically part of/closer to the Caribbean, and also, they don’t speak Spanish since they were both British colonies).

  48. Oh and of course Trinidad and Guyana also have a lot in common culturally with the rest of the Caribbean (music, food, etc.)

  49. I am a little surprised that for everyone that claims to hate Bollywood, there is a plethora of information about actors, their marital status, there religion etc here.

  50. nala, no reason. I was just curious b/c you had mentioned “first time” dating scenes, being younger than other posters, etc. No meanness, no judgment.

    again. my mental picture. completely wrong.

    I actually think this would be a fun game — what is your “mental image” of other posters? Not that I am trying to take the thread there, just talking out loud. pingpong, what was your mental image (of nala)? Wait, Jeet, how old ARE you?

    zuni, agreed on parents being conservative in the diaspora b/c of being “frozen in time” re: their mores/expectations.

    Dave – a South American desi is Latin@ and desi, just as a West Indian desi is Indian^2.