I wrote a post this weekend which questioned certain commenters’ assertions regarding how “hot Desi girls seem to end up with White guysâ€. We discussed that misconception as well as…well, a few dozen other subjects, but that’s natural over the course of 1,349 comments. One sub-thread which I followed avidly involved I-bankers and their (for some) elusive prey: the skinny, hyper-maintained, hot brown girl with stick-straight hair.
Some of you compassionately responded to your banking brethren, when they plaintively admitted that they weren’t sure where to locate their loins’ fondest desire; instructions, right down to locations, days of the week and yes, auspicious times of day (yo, are we brown or are we BROWN) were offered and happily accepted. Much like the original exchange which inspired my post on interracial dating, which is where this comedy of heir-ers was going down, what I noticed was that these weren’t one-off sentiments. To me, that made them difficult to dismiss.
The one word which kept surfacing, repeatedly, insistently, was skinny.
Predictably, evolved mutineers were outraged and immediately broadcasted it; even more predictable than that, the obligatory, “I can’t help it, it’s just what ruins my boxersâ€- volley occurred, so that there was essentially a stalemate. Around skinny. While all of them pondered if it was okay to come out and say that “skinny†was a requirement, and whether such a requiring was nothing to be ashamed of, I was transfixed by something else which was related, but not discussed.
What did skinny mean in this context?
To some, Kate Moss defines skinny. To others, the woman who is pictured on our left qualifies.
I like to know exactly what I’m offended by, before I gift someone with a new orifice, so I couldn’t get my outrage-on– not until this question was answered. Yes, yes…we should all eschew superficial everything and it’s terrible that we’re judging female books by their covers, but it’s also a gross reality. And I wanted to know how realistic these I(yer) bankers were.
There was another snag—we were discussing Manhattan.
It’s a rarified world and understandably, the benchmarks are different. Everything is relative (and apparently, if you are an Iyengar reading SM, YOU are all relatives…oy, how I wish that I could actually link to relevant comments from MY OWN POST, which would make my attempts at wit successful vs. inscrutable).
In most cities, D.C. included, my 450 sq ft studio is tiny. In Manhattan, my friend is thrilled to have that much space for her ONE-BEDROOM. In most cities, making six figures is awesome. In Manhattan, it barely affords the afore-mentioned shoe-box, rent-wise and that’s if you limit your methods for self-intoxicating to PBR (note: life is too short for PBR, my darlinks). Anyway, if everything is tougher, better, more competitive, more expensive and more EVERYTHING in Manhattan, then…do brown guys expect brown girls to be skinnier, too? And does skinny mean fit? Or just skinny?
My guy friends (the unManhattanites, if you will…I’m not counting the Murray Hill dwellers et al for the purposes of this fluffy post) would line up giddily for a shot at the gorgeous girl above. Would our I(yengar) bankers? I think we have a bit of a vested interest in all this; the majority of the Desi vomen whom I am privileged to know are curvaceous, if they’re out of their teens. For most men, that’s a good thing. My male buddies don’t like straight lines—on the roads they’re about to break laws on or…uh…you know.
Curves are good. Right? Left? Those are definitely curves, on the left.
So, as I said memorably (and almost 1,700 comments ago!), out with it then. Let’s have the truth. What do you want? Is the woman I’ve wrapped this post around zaftig or is she just right? Err, left? You know what I mean. And this ain’t no heteronormative joint. I’ll be the first to tell you that she could inspire me to discover a love that dare not speak its naam. 😉 What about you?
::
isin’t that a picture of you ANNA?? or may be your sister?
While it easily could be, because my sister and I both have huge, bubble-like Malayalee kundis which resemble two coconuts attached to our lower back, and yes, apparently we also both have “thunder-thighs” like our helpful model above, no, it’s neither me nor my little sister.
I look exactly like that in jeans.
I am dismayed that some of you think that her thighs are ugly, but to each their own; we are attracted to what we are attracted to and that’s that. I bring this up not to call you out (S, you know you and labbie singh are my peeps), but to speak to the women who are lurking, who have body image issues. Because believe me, they are here and they are reading this. They inspired this.
I have no problems in NYC or SF or DC…guess my hatred-since-infancy of LA has protected me from an eating disorder, since I am a size 8, not a size 4, and that is too big for La-La land.
I like my body. I like it so much, I don’t give a shit about telling you the truth– I am 5’6″ and I weigh a whopping 148 lbs. I’ve gained weight, since hurting my leg, because I no longer get to walk the three miles home from work. To go from walking more than 20 miles a week to not being mobile at all…well, it takes a toll. I’ve gained eight pounds, which I can’t be fucked to cry over, because I’m more upset over losing lean mass and the ability to walk comfortably, without pain or this huge, heavy, unwieldy cast on my leg.
To the young woman whose email to me on Facebook inspired this entire post:
Please stop calling yourself “fat” and “ugly”. You look exactly like this picture, I know, because I went through your albums and found one taken at a similar angle. You don’t have luck with desi guys in NYC because of timing, circumstance or that nakshatram with the tree or whatever– NOT BECAUSE YOU ARE OBESE. When you kept reading about how guys like Puli et al want “skinny” desi girls, in the mega-thread, they were talking about you, my darling girl.
I proved this. I proved my point.
The majority of men on this thread think that the woman pictured above isn’t just beautiful but hot, gorgeous, attractive, ideal.
Please eat your lunch today. And your dinner. And work-out, but do so because your heart and lungs and future grandchildren deserve to be taken care of– you’re too precious to starve, especially at your own hands.
To quote you, “Shocker. Indian girls have eating disorders, too.”
Well, they shouldn’t have to– no human should. Eat. Be healthy. Fall in love with yourself. Life is too short for bullshit, and that goes for all of you.
Thunder thighed-Anna, over and out.
This post has been bothering me since yesterday. My sentiment is with what DQ originally said. I’m bothered by a “is she fat or not†discussion. Not that its not relevant or shouldn’t be had but I find absolutely nothing positive comes out of these discussions other than it leaves a bad taste in my mouth.
Having been a fairly chubby girl my whole life this topic is something I’ve struggled with for a long time. If Beyonce is fat I’m morbidly obese. I work in an industry on a damn campus where the average girl is underweight never mind skinny but I’ve always loved my body for what it was worth and after spending nearly 30 years struggling with my image made peace with it on my 30th birthday when I dumped the pretty boy ex for good. I was tired of him chasing after skinny chicks.
It’s funny how thru all my dating trails and tribulations I’ve met all kinds of men, some like seriously fat women and thought I could use a butt (yeah no kidding have you looked at my ass) and others thought I was so ridiculous fat they couldn’t picture themselves with me. Actually the guy who said that to me had a paunch and no hair on his head. Whatever. My point is I finally met the man who seriously sees me for who I am and adores me. I had such a complex when I first started dating him, I wouldn’t let him see me without clothes or in light and be prudish about so many things but I learnt eventually that when he looks at me all he sees is someone perfect. There is so much love and adoration in his eyes I could look like something the cat dragged in and he’s so in love with me. Who knew.
The sad thing is now that we are planning a wedding I’ve heard more than several comments from random aunties and his mother about how “maybe when the wedding day comes I’ll fit into a smaller blouseâ€. I’ve lost count of how many times in my lifetime I heard “you should lose weight or you won’t find a guy.†Fuck that. He picked me because I look just as I do. Society will always be that way. I find it best to alter my way of thinking to manage these attitudes rather than react to them. Not that it’s easy but it’s always an ongoing process. So it’s heartbreaking for me to have a perfectly gorgeous woman being called fat. As if that is all there is to her.
I always wanted a guy bigger and broader than me. I’m not into pretty men. I like hairy chests, have no problem with the balding pate and prefer him to have natural thick eyebrows. I got all that well without the hairy chest and balding pate.
Oh Manju are you still blaming “the gay†for skinny women. Gay men are not forcing the likes of Jennifer Anniston and Paris Hilton to starve themselves. Women’s bodies have changed over the years as have fashions and will continue to. Who knows in 2020 we might get the normal chicks from the 80s back.
I think the argument was that even the skinny minny misses are running to white guys 🙂 Just b/c desi guys like skinny girls doesn’t mean they like them back.
Saira, surely this is a function of how clothes are designed, also, though. I mean, women existed in “high fashion” at not-grossly-skinny rates for nearly 40 years before the super skinny trend picked up.
While I understand the angst, here, does a receding hairline drive you to take on habits that could lead in the loss of your fertility, or ultimately in death? I’m not trying to trivialize the point — I have friends who are totally paranoid about their hair loss. That said, I think there are tasteful ways to get around this (i.e. not through combovers or toupes!).
Maybe the Farm guys should head cross Bay, where the selection is broader 🙂 But also, maybe you’re looking in the wrong fields? Try Economics, City Planning, Geography, Ag. Econ, Resource Management, Medicine and Law.
chachaji, are you a sheep/horse breeder?
sabas! seriyana potty.
we shall see about that…will report in with empirical evidence this weekend
This goes against every bone in my tall body, every sinew in my muscular frame, and raises every hair in my well-coiffed head… but I’m pretty sure Manju was being facetious in his remark. ‘Cuz that’s how he rolls.
It’s not that I don’t love you guys, but 250-odd comments are a bit much to go through, so my apologies if this has been said. As long as we’re bucking heteronormativity, I’ve got to say that Teh Gayz have got all this “skinny” stuff beat down into the ground. For us, if it’s a BMI over 19 or more than 3% body-fat, liposuction and bariatric surgery is the order of the day. I’m actually curious as to what the brown queers would say is their “type”, or are we all uniformly shallow and brainwashed, regardless of skin colour? 😉
She’s not fat. Trust someone who KNOWS from fat.
nice dig noname
I am just gonna state the obvious, I think us people in NYC are swarmed with beautiful women from all around the world. So to measure a girl’s beauty by one set of rules shouldnt even be considered. We have SO many girls who are gorgeous, its not even fair. I need to take out Puli with me and show him the ropes.
ahh..but what about the muscly chelsea boys? do they have desi chelsea boys?
i guess i just roll with an older married crowd. i need to change that…
You took the words right out of my mouth chachaji. If her face catches your eye and her demeanor pulls you in, and you aren’t a dick, then there’s enough of a current to get things moving. I’ve never known a dude to reject a girl that he fancied based on body type, unless he’s self-serving bastard which most women on SM ain’t into in the first place. If you’re anal about body type and you don’t have an i-bankers sway, then you’re probably coming home to an empty bed for a long time.
JOAT: respect!
And having just seen #256, HELLLLOOOOO Rahul. And how’re you today?
Respect!
I’m with ak on this one. I am hyper vigilant about my diet and exercise regimen, but no amount of balancing is going to make me drop below my “normal weight,” especially when you factor in all the environmental aspects that can impede weight loss/gain (a classic example would be stress — my best friend loses mad weight when stressed, and I pack it on). I’m sorry, I can’t remember who posted about losing 100lbs and then gaining it back, but I think it’s worth rereading what he wrote — it’s really right on. What I wish we had was a broader understanding of healthy body types (and there are a lot! we just assume that skinny = healthy). Even calling someone “overweight” is not entirely accurate. I was near the “overweight” limit as an athlete, and I was slim. Why? Because I had way more lean muscle mass at the time, which was heavier.
JOAT, thanks for sharing your experience (I hope that doesn’t sound patronizing — I mean it to sound sincere!). I’ve definitely seen this within my own family. And unfortunately, I think your advice is really what makes the difference. For years I felt awful going to family functions, and then I realized that I am always going to have something wrong with me according to someone. All I can do is learn to be happy and confident about myself. For me this happened after my frosh year of college, and I think something that really helped me get there was being surrounded by a diverse and awesome group of supportive girlfriends.
Wow, this I don’t understand. From my personal experience and what I’ve always read/heard, it’s much harder for women to lose body fat. Unless you’re a celeb with a 24-hour personal trainer and chef.
Puli, you’re trying to find single women by hanging out with married couples? Homey, you may have to join the rest of us in OppositeLand, because that makes NO sense!
iABD, it is harder for women to lose weight, or at least that’s what I’ve heard. Especially as you get older and have to contend with fertility, hormones, etc.
ive always wanted those…
ah…sorry. no. thats not what im trying to do. I am trying to meet single women. but…most of my friends are a few years older than me, and happen to be married. (which makes things slightly more difficult, as i need to make mroe of an effort to go outside my natural circle of friends)
I don’t have a problem with calling someone fat and if I’m fat so be it. The thing is I have a problem with the assumption that skinny = healthy and having some pounds on immediately = unhealthy. How many skinny Indian dads do we know that have had heart attacks and have cholestorol problems? I eat well, don’t drink, don’t smoke, walk 2 miles daily just for my commute nevermind anything else, can move sofas and tables with a lot ease and am super strom, am super active, not lazy and try everyday to make healthy choices. I can outrun some of my skinny NYC girls. Healthy is a perception. Add to that daily stresses, the pill, monthly weight gain, getting older, having to deal with real life, don’t we all wish we had hours and hours everyday to make it to the gym and there are a lot of things people have to deal with everyday. I don’t so easily judge people anymore when it comes to their looks.
True true. My whole life all thru my teens it’s been like this. Dressing well, being happy is the best response to anyone telling me I need to lose weight. Being a desi woman I find there is no value to my education or career or anything else that could be the icing on the cake. You don’t just get judged for your looks you get judged for your body all the time by freaking fat aunties that have roving uncles. Whatever. Finally finding the “perfect Indian guy” according to desi standards who adores me the way I am has been absolutely priceless.
Unlike some commenters, I am not anti-“fluffy” posts, whatever that means. But like Jane, I am bothered by a “whether she is skinny or not” conversation. Like Rahul and Abhi, I think the conversation could take a dangerous, insensitive turn. But more than that, I feel that women have a hard time finding places where they can forget about body insecurities and just be (and SM I imagine could be like that for many people, especially say, teenage lurkers who might feel inspired by the brown pride and intelligent conversation they see here). At the end of the day, one cannot make these aesthetic judgments without objectification (How would men feel if someone posted a picture of a murga and asked everyone to rate it on the length or girth? I’m sure it would heighten insecurities for many people ). And this objectification is what is awful to me – it makes people obsessively focus on only certain traits or physical characteristics, primarily because they feel everyone else also assesses them on how they fare on these criteria (height, weight, popularity). Lots of people spend far too much time and energy on worrying about these things, when they could be doing something more productive or a lot more fun.
well, one good thing with hanging around married friends is your sis-in-laws. If they have sisters, then you are golden
i wouldnt give a $hit. i would probably weigh in on the subject….im all for fluffy posts. i figure, i know more about fluff than on subcontinental politics.
omg, puli (if I may call you that), where were the i(yer)-bankers when i was interning on wall street? i missed that party.
oh wait, i was probably busy straightening my hair and chasing white boys.
your sis-in-laws (because your guy friends are like brothers). well in india they are 😉
sigh no such luck
touche…u work on the street?
First, pingpong gracefully whisks away the crowning raison-de-etre of my life, now you come in an usurp my wingman duties. This is just too much.
PindaUSA, if you are into hanging out with married couples, I suggest that you at least have car keys ready on hand in case an impromptu party breaks out. If they expect you to have a partner going into these things, steal Manju’s girlfriends, whom he was trying to palm off onto me.
Oh, hello yourself, Sin (is that what the kids are calling it these days?). I’ll become a much better human being after I’m done with addressing all my neuroses today. I’m planning to get a zipper-skin coat with modifiable skin tone, the modular foreskin so I can be as cut/uncut as desired, and a range of contacts so my eye color will be what you like it to be. Not to mention the Bosley’s eye brow transplant where they will take some of my back hair and shape my eyebrows better.
When you see me with all that new found confidence, Sin, you’d dump La Whore in a Karachi second for me.
by all means…
I think puli belongs to the lower Iyengar sect. We do not slum it in banking when we could be doing private equity. It’s because we hold ourselves up to a Iyer standard.
ironically…im working on that shift. waiting to finish b-school, as my current employer is nice enough to send me…
What did I say earlier about wingmen? (Watch the second link, after the 2:25 mark). Maybe you and Puli should be in OppositeLand.
Jane, Beautiful story. Congratulations on finding a wonderful man. I’m very happy for you.
Also, I have seldom whisked anything other than mashed potatoes. Those I can whisk the time away with.
naah, i just interned for a summer between junior and senior year and realized how much i didn’t fit in. quit while i was winning 🙂
did meet lots of south asian bankers – most of whom turned out to be not my type. you on the other hand, i might’ve liked because of your illegal leanings. but thanks to sarbanes-oxley, we would have needed a chaperon to meet 🙂 i worked for equity research. in any case, i don’t meet boys socially without suitable supervision by elders, i’m a very good girl.
my wantonness is only virtual.
my dad would like you…the question my dad wants me to ask perspective s.com grls is “do you know how to cook”.
pingpong, I actually make them feel like virgins again. ‘Cuz that’s how I roll. I do tip, though.
u sound like me…although im encouraged to date by the parents…
Portmanteau, you are such a tease. (spank! spank!)
i think everyone on this thread needs a cold shower…
Depends on which side of the net pingpong is on.
Wait, are you saying that all the women you’ve made feel like virgins performed services that needed tipping?
that’s only cuz I liked to be spanked, Bess. Especially if its tarts that are doing the spanking 🙂
oops…i think thats one of those things that would make my dad shrug and stop looking for a wife.
Yes I know how to (and like to) cook. I also happen to be male.
Oh pingpong, they know they get far more than 18% with me.
PindaUSA, does puli-amma approve of your dad looking for a wife?
arrrghh…u know what i mean. looking for a wife..for ME. puli appa and pulli amma have been hapily married since the mesozoic era…puli junior on the other hand is desperately hitting up manhattan bars this friday.
Vous, moi et le Marquis de Sade.
Damn, check this out! The competition stiffens. (har har)
Jane, a double “amen!” to both points, especially re: snarky aunties (grrr). I’m glad you met a great guy, though — you sound v. in love/happy 🙂
portmanteau, my coffee went flying. Thanks 🙂
Rahul, don’t worry; I’m not funny enough to make a habit of it 🙂
Not that there’s anything wrong with hitting up bars, but you might have better success if you hit on the ladies instead.
I love watching people and when I look around there is definitely an imbalance with regards to the numbers of attractive women compared to attractive men, so women tend to be my main source of eye candy. I’m straight, but aesthetically pleasing is aesthetically pleasing regardless of the sex. Skinny isn’t the be all and end all.
I reckon women are pretty savvy about the visual cues that men respond to. I remember being on the underground and a lady walked in, she was really skinny and about 5’11 in towering heels, but she was also about 45-50 and really haggard looking around the face. But her legs! Even I couldn’t stop looking at them, she had this tiny skirt on and I could see every man in the carriage just agog at those perfect pins.
Most women will dress differently depending on whether you’re going out to attract men or hanging out with your girlfriends. You know what flicks the switches – having your hair down and long, makeup (accentuating your eyelashes, lips), wearing jewellery. Clothes wise I would probably wear a top that shows a bit of cleavage and a skirt. Wafting down the street in a cloud of perfume, head up, shoulders back……
I’m pretty but in no way would I be considered beautiful. But sometimes when I’m in the zone, all of it seems to get reduced to the bare bones. When that internal monologue I’ve had since I was 10, the one that makes me analyse things way too much and build myself up into a state of hysteria shuts up. Men turn into these simple creatures, it’s almost pavlovian. You look up through your eyelashes, lick your lips, stretch out elongating your neck and pushing your chest forward a bit. I’ve seen my friend do this and even though it seems really obvious, the guy responds regardless. If you exude confidence and sexiness it goes a long way.
That’s when you have all the power, you have something that the guy really wants, you’re like the gate keeper. I think women forget how much power they hold in that regard. It’s great, but the counterpoint to that is when you have put out and then you’re not really sure where you are with it all and you’ve just played you’re ace card.
I know that this is simplistic and rather cynical, but I was wondering what you all thought about the power aspect and if sometimes the same thoughts go around in your head.