Who is SKINNY? [Updated]

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I wrote a post this weekend which questioned certain commenters’ assertions regarding how “hot Desi girls seem to end up with White guys”. We discussed that misconception as well as…well, a few dozen other subjects, but that’s natural over the course of 1,349 comments. One sub-thread which I followed avidly involved I-bankers and their (for some) elusive prey: the skinny, hyper-maintained, hot brown girl with stick-straight hair.

Some of you compassionately responded to your banking brethren, when they plaintively admitted that they weren’t sure where to locate their loins’ fondest desire; instructions, right down to locations, days of the week and yes, auspicious times of day (yo, are we brown or are we BROWN) were offered and happily accepted. Much like the original exchange which inspired my post on interracial dating, which is where this comedy of heir-ers was going down, what I noticed was that these weren’t one-off sentiments. To me, that made them difficult to dismiss.

The one word which kept surfacing, repeatedly, insistently, was skinny.

Predictably, evolved mutineers were outraged and immediately broadcasted it; even more predictable than that, the obligatory, “I can’t help it, it’s just what ruins my boxers”- volley occurred, so that there was essentially a stalemate. Around skinny. While all of them pondered if it was okay to come out and say that “skinny” was a requirement, and whether such a requiring was nothing to be ashamed of, I was transfixed by something else which was related, but not discussed.

What did skinny mean in this context?

To some, Kate Moss defines skinny. To others, the woman who is pictured on our left qualifies.

I like to know exactly what I’m offended by, before I gift someone with a new orifice, so I couldn’t get my outrage-on– not until this question was answered. Yes, yes…we should all eschew superficial everything and it’s terrible that we’re judging female books by their covers, but it’s also a gross reality. And I wanted to know how realistic these I(yer) bankers were.

There was another snag—we were discussing Manhattan.

It’s a rarified world and understandably, the benchmarks are different. Everything is relative (and apparently, if you are an Iyengar reading SM, YOU are all relatives…oy, how I wish that I could actually link to relevant comments from MY OWN POST, which would make my attempts at wit successful vs. inscrutable).

In most cities, D.C. included, my 450 sq ft studio is tiny. In Manhattan, my friend is thrilled to have that much space for her ONE-BEDROOM. In most cities, making six figures is awesome. In Manhattan, it barely affords the afore-mentioned shoe-box, rent-wise and that’s if you limit your methods for self-intoxicating to PBR (note: life is too short for PBR, my darlinks). Anyway, if everything is tougher, better, more competitive, more expensive and more EVERYTHING in Manhattan, then…do brown guys expect brown girls to be skinnier, too? And does skinny mean fit? Or just skinny?

My guy friends (the unManhattanites, if you will…I’m not counting the Murray Hill dwellers et al for the purposes of this fluffy post) would line up giddily for a shot at the gorgeous girl above. Would our I(yengar) bankers? I think we have a bit of a vested interest in all this; the majority of the Desi vomen whom I am privileged to know are curvaceous, if they’re out of their teens. For most men, that’s a good thing. My male buddies don’t like straight lines—on the roads they’re about to break laws on or…uh…you know.

Curves are good. Right? Left? Those are definitely curves, on the left.

So, as I said memorably (and almost 1,700 comments ago!), out with it then. Let’s have the truth. What do you want? Is the woman I’ve wrapped this post around zaftig or is she just right? Err, left? You know what I mean. And this ain’t no heteronormative joint. I’ll be the first to tell you that she could inspire me to discover a love that dare not speak its naam. 😉 What about you?

::

isin’t that a picture of you ANNA?? or may be your sister?

While it easily could be, because my sister and I both have huge, bubble-like Malayalee kundis which resemble two coconuts attached to our lower back, and yes, apparently we also both have “thunder-thighs” like our helpful model above, no, it’s neither me nor my little sister.

I look exactly like that in jeans.

I am dismayed that some of you think that her thighs are ugly, but to each their own; we are attracted to what we are attracted to and that’s that. I bring this up not to call you out (S, you know you and labbie singh are my peeps), but to speak to the women who are lurking, who have body image issues. Because believe me, they are here and they are reading this. They inspired this.

I have no problems in NYC or SF or DC…guess my hatred-since-infancy of LA has protected me from an eating disorder, since I am a size 8, not a size 4, and that is too big for La-La land.

I like my body. I like it so much, I don’t give a shit about telling you the truth– I am 5’6″ and I weigh a whopping 148 lbs. I’ve gained weight, since hurting my leg, because I no longer get to walk the three miles home from work. To go from walking more than 20 miles a week to not being mobile at all…well, it takes a toll. I’ve gained eight pounds, which I can’t be fucked to cry over, because I’m more upset over losing lean mass and the ability to walk comfortably, without pain or this huge, heavy, unwieldy cast on my leg.

To the young woman whose email to me on Facebook inspired this entire post:

Please stop calling yourself “fat” and “ugly”. You look exactly like this picture, I know, because I went through your albums and found one taken at a similar angle. You don’t have luck with desi guys in NYC because of timing, circumstance or that nakshatram with the tree or whatever– NOT BECAUSE YOU ARE OBESE. When you kept reading about how guys like Puli et al want “skinny” desi girls, in the mega-thread, they were talking about you, my darling girl.

I proved this. I proved my point.

The majority of men on this thread think that the woman pictured above isn’t just beautiful but hot, gorgeous, attractive, ideal.

Please eat your lunch today. And your dinner. And work-out, but do so because your heart and lungs and future grandchildren deserve to be taken care of– you’re too precious to starve, especially at your own hands.

To quote you, “Shocker. Indian girls have eating disorders, too.”

Well, they shouldn’t have to– no human should. Eat. Be healthy. Fall in love with yourself. Life is too short for bullshit, and that goes for all of you.

Thunder thighed-Anna, over and out.

785 thoughts on “Who is SKINNY? [Updated]”

  1. “she’s not obese but she does seem overweight, her thighs are large.”

    if that’s considered overweight, i feel sorry for women today. the thing is,she wears her size/proportions well, as do some skinny (underweight?) women. malaika arora has a similar figure. is she considered overweight/large, out of curiousity?

  3. the double-standard regarding “skinny bitches” vs not being able to say “fat…”, is one. I’m not trying to single anyone out.

    Is this in any way analogous to the way that jokes about white people are much more socially acceptable than jokes about “minorities?” In regards to these jokes, there’s a power differential between the joker and his butt. [How’s that for Marxist analysis?] To paraphrase (in somewhat hyperbolic terms), the oppressed can joke about the oppressor all they want, but when it’s the other way around, that’s just adding insult to injury, which is generally frowned upon. Or here’s another example–it’s like comparing the way that nerds might snicker about the bully’s bad breath vs. a bully teasing the nerd for his glasses.

    I’m not making any kind of sense, or am I?

    [Disclaimer: I’m not so partial to the skinny, so this is all for the sake of argument discusion.]

  4. uhh–no–see the work of that evolutionary psychologist at U. Texas–David buss.

    i’m looking into it rob, but i can’t get past all the pics of his grad students.

  5. Ajit said

    Many were commenting that desi guys only want the skinny ones (i.e.aren’t these the hot ones?) so the larger ones end up with the white guys.

    It seemed to me that a lot of the “non-ideal body type” women felt that they were more accepted by non-Indian men, so perhaps it is the opposite of what you imply, Anna. Perhaps it is more the women who aren’t seen as “conventionally hot” who seek love elsewhere? In talking with many desi men and women with a preference for anything but desi, feeling rejected by the Indian community seemed to be a common theme among them.

    BTW about the pic- I would by no means call this woman fat. She is curvy and appears to be in decent shape (small waist, looks like a trim midsection). However, maybe do I fit the stereotype in my preference for thin women, as she is definitely not my type.

  6. Sorry Manju, but I am a woman, who works in fashion, and am privy and partial to perpetuating this construction or deconstruction of the ideal female. yes, thin is in, and yes thin is the barometer for setting the standard for western fashion. We simply don’t value the thunder thighs or weightiness of women in style, whether there be a face or not. This is not to say the lady in question isn’t attractive, but the reality of the fashion industry (men and women) is style and clothes look better on thinner, skinnier, minnier people. The image above, of ill-fated denim is not one that sells. And, no, I am not gay.

    ok. i can see that. the clothes themselves do hang better on skinny people. but your models shouldn’t be doing bikinis. leave that to vida guerra & co please. btw, what did the fashion world do before the 1960’s. weren’t models fatter before then?

  7. 204 · Manju i’m looking into it rob, but i can’t get past all the pics of his grad students.

    too funny indeed!!

  10. I will say this without any regret. Curvy women should not be modeling corduroy. Swish swish.

  11. (1) Her Body appears to be within the Normal Range

    (2) The Normal Range is Nice.

    Footnote: About a year after I stopped watching TV, I noticed that the Normal Range had expanded and become Heavier.

  13. i’m looking into it rob, but i can’t get past all the pics of his grad students.

    Based on the grad student’s honeymoon pics, I’d pick her over the pic in the OP anyday. Thanks for the link, Manju.

    any man would be insane to not be attracted to her.

    Hello, I’m insane. Nice to meet you.

  14. I will say this without any regret. Curvy women should not be modeling corduroy. Swish swish.

    Was that the sound made by the fabric or were you doing a post-punchline rimshot? Boom cheesh!

  15. 212 · Manju yeah, here’s the rest of them. coincidence?

    woot, woot! David buss is my new idol–sorry, Pankaj!

    I met him once–oddly enough….

  16. HyperTree @ 95 said:

    For men, “athletic”, “skinny”, “muscular” and “fat” have clear connotations.

    Eh holmes, what about us chunky fellas? What do we detonate?

    Camille @ 97 said:

    I do think there’s more judgment in assessing someone’s size-preferences.

    If we acknowledge that at least part of this assesment is externally influence through images in mass media, what’s the harm in questioning at least that part of it?

    scorps1027 @ 110 said:

    I think you’ll all agree with me, male or female, it’s all about confidence and attitude. When someone is confident and positive about their size in a non-haughty way, it shows and they exude sex appeal. People will gravitate towards them.

    I think I will agree with you.

    HyperTree @ 113 said:

    Many desi men are naturally skinny atmost athletic. It is then natural they’d want women who are not look heavier than them.

    How is that “natural?” You’re making a pretty big assumption there. You could just as easily say it’s natural for a skinny desi man to lose himself nuzzling in the ample bosom of a bbw (or bear, for that matter.)

    DQ @ 117 said:

    Honestly, being found and told you are uber-hot can be JUST as depressing as being told you are fat. It’s about not being SEEN.

    Amen sista! Why can’t they love me for my brains?

    scorps1027 @ 120 said:

    …I think that has a lot to do with African-American culture and their standards and ideals of beauty for a woman…The White standard of beauty is very different…

    Further proof that these standards are not inherent but programmed into us.

    Ok, this comment is getting too long, so I’ll leave you with the words of that great Parsi Queen Freddie Mercury, “Fat bottom girls, you make the rockin’ world go round!”

  17. You could just as easily say it’s natural for a skinny desi man to lose himself nuzzling in the ample bosom of a bbw (or bear, for that matter.)

    Oh boy, that was too funny! I hope my laughing didn’t wake up any of my neighbors.

  19. Camille @ 116 said:

    ak, I’m with you — my guy friends are not super honest about their preferences, but I think it’s because they’re trying not to hurt our feelings. That said, sometimes I wish guys WOULD just say, “you know what? I am definitely swayed by X, Y, Z, factors, and I like the rail thin look” or “I loooove curves.” I think some of the crappy feelings come from the hyper-prevalence of the rail-thin archetype and the lack of celebration around the curves-type (e.g. the vicious comments on the latest Dove campaigns).

    Camille @ 141 said:

    In my experience, men really do comment on size THAT much. Again, selection bias or whatever, but I wouldn’t be surprised if my experience is uncommon.

    Ralph Waldo Emerson @ “Self Reliance” said:

    A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds.

    Whalt Whitman @ “Leaves of Grass” said:

    Do I contradict myself? Very well then I contradict myself, (I am large, I contain multitudes.)

    [Note: Whitman was apparently large and in charge, too.]

  20. don’t tell rahul, but you might have just surpassed him as most-amusing-commenter.

    pingpong, in the dual context of this post and its author, I think it is appropriate to acknowledge that sic transit gloria kundi mundi.

  21. Hm. Guess I’m the only one left awake. So, I’m trying not to walk on eggshells and be completely forthcoming and and all that, but I’m moved and somewhat restrained by this, this, and this.

    But I’ll still say it: I’m an asshole. You know what? I totally judge guys who drool over skinny “cookie-cutter” types. I think they’re tools of the mass media. [Case in point: 1, 2.] My totally unscientific judgmental analysis is to think that “those guys” let Madison Avenue tell them what they are supposed to like, and I think they’re basing a lot of their “preference” on conjecture, if you catch my drift.

    I got two words for “those guys”: mmmmmmmmmMuffin tops, mmmmmmmmmmmmm…(A little belly is hella sexy.)

    Hema Malini, Sridevi, Zeenat Aman, Parveen Babi, Pooja Bhatt–kya baat hai!

  22. anna, anna, why settle for second-best seeking ivy-alum resumes when you can go top tier and find some from stanford and/or mit? 😉

  23. she is not skinny at all, her hair is well good!! love a girl with curls!!!

    short men? are they not more ill tempered then normal men? 😉

  24. Here’s the grad school point of view.

    SHE’S HOT!

    All you I(yer/yengar) bankers seriously need to spend a couple of years stuck with 500 other geeky, horny chumps with a passion for nothing but abstract math and D&D. That’ll help you appreciate what you’ve got.

    🙂

    Yo, Anna, how about a post to encourage more desi women to show up at grad school. And it wouldn’t hurt if some of them look like her.

  25. Honestly, being found and told you are uber-hot can be JUST as depressing as being told you are fat. It’s about not being SEEN.

    So, what you’re saying is, given the opportunity, they wouldn’t mind switching categories?

  26. I call total and utter BS. Men are sized up all the time, just in a different way: height. It’s like people feel a right to annihilate a man’s humanity in favour of his height all the time. It doesn’t matter how hot they are… 😉

    Let’s not forget they’re also sized up by post1000‘s, regardless of the ‘sizers’ parents obliterate the mere possibility of depending on a man in the longrun for financial support, even though it’s thinking they were most likely raised with themselves, but still somehow succumb to the social activity stratification they were raised with and do not hesitate to bound and gag their daugthers every friday night at 8pm, lest they breathe the same air as Matt from math class.

  27. because celebrities’ attention to their bodies, and the diets they go on, are un-human.

    some certainly are, like the raw food diet, but it is possible to meter and monitor your caloric intake and make a macronutrient breakdown (on a daily basis) without being a self-obsessed, personal-chef equipped celebrity–I do those breakdowns, on a daily basis (slotted into my own busy schedule)and I can assure you that I’m not showing up in Entertainment Weekly. Changes of even 50g of carbs daily cause very real differences in energy levels and my ability to shed excess adipose tissue.

    people, it’s not narcissism, vanity or monomania driving people to blueprint their caloric intake–it’s science and, in some cases, necessitated by the prospect of developing hereditary diseases.

    There’s nothing wrong with not measuring, but lay off the people who do.

  28. De-lurk alert. This site is ridiculously addicting..

    Here’s the grad school point of view. SHE’S HOT!

    I concur, as a current grad student. Just the right body shape and weight.

    All you I(yer/yengar) bankers seriously need to spend a couple of years stuck with 500 other geeky, horny chumps with a passion for nothing but abstract math and D&D. That’ll help you appreciate what you’ve got. 🙂 Yo, Anna, how about a post to encourage more desi women to show up at grad school. And it wouldn’t hurt if some of them look like her.

    OT: at least on “The Farm,” where I am a PhD candidate, there are way more ABD undergrads than in grad school (by percentage) .. seems like most of the ABDs go into law/med school or consulting/finance .. you I-bankers are pretty set. Damn, I guess I love math way more than money and women.

  29. OT: at least on “The Farm,” where I am a PhD candidate,

    Dude, your farm be no match for our FARM. . . . . . . . . …CornCornCornCornCornCornCorn…. …CornCornCornCornCornCornCorn…. …CornCornChambanaCornCornCorn…. …CornCornCornCornCornCornCorn…. …CornCornCornCornCornCornCorn…. . . . . . . . .

    And grad school deplete of specimens like the one this lot is obsessing about.

    Anyway, it is the beginning of August. The time of the year all desi males keep their fingers crossed and hope they have buttered up the IGSA president enough to be the “chosen few” who get to pick up the 5 token women who show up every year.

    🙂

  31. …CornCornCornCornCornCornCorn…. …CornCornCornCornCornCornCorn…. …CornCornChambanaCornCornCorn…. …CornCornCornCornCornCornCorn…. …CornCornCornCornCornCornCorn….

    Nice graphic .. yeah, UIUC is definitely worse.

    And grad school deplete of specimens like the one this lot is obsessing about.

    I think most of the guys here agree that she’s pretty hot.

  32. pingpong, in the dual context of this post and its author, I think it is appropriate to acknowledge that sic transit gloria kundi mundi.

    Be that as it may, I still look forward to your sic sense of humor.

  33. Many desi men are naturally skinny atmost athletic. It is then natural they’d want women who are not look heavier than them.

    understandable (but just as understandable as if a ‘skinny’ guy wanted to be with a curvy woman) but not necessarily natural. i ‘natural’ really means socially conditioned to think it’s natural – big difference. if we’re looking to generalizations, african-american men prob. would not agree with your statement – and even the skinnier ones seem comfortable with curvier women.

  34. Here’s an old Marc Abrahams column that discusses some research done into this very question, whether men prefer skinny or curvy: http://education.guardian.co.uk/egweekly/story/0,,2089735,00.html

    Here’s the research itself: link.

    Yes, apparently there were some scientific researchers who were paid to go through 50 years of Playboy and analyze the centerfold models’ body shapes.

  35. Too much junk in the trunk for my tastes.

    This just made my day. I haven’t been able to buy a date since the J.Los and Beyonces of the world set the “new standard.”

    But anyway, if I was a guy or played for the other team, the girl in the picture would do it for me…

  36. murali-mannered, i wasn’t knocking the concept of dieting, or just watching one’s diet in general. i just meant that some celebrities over-do it, for their particular weight/body, and that sets an example for others to be skinny at all costs. i know my own body needs somewhat careful monitoring – and not just calorically, but in terms of getting the right mix of protein, carbs, fats etc, and staying away from sugar/caffeine. i do it for health, which also includes a healthy weight. i do get really annoyed with the PC-ness of a society where we cannot tell people that they are overweight for reasons other than asthetics, because the comment is always attributed some sort of malevolence/social judgment. e.g. the jordin sparks controversy, where that woman was outlining the medical effects of being overweight – i don’t think it was improper of her to worry about the contrary message to young people that being medically overweight is good.

  37. but not necessarily natural. i ‘natural’ really means socially conditioned to think it’s natural – big difference.

    ah, if I’d said “it is then nurtural that they’d want…” would it have made you happy 🙂 the African American men that you allude to are I suspect not skinny but lean and muscular. Which reflects, for a poor skinny s. asian man, a lot of gymming.

  38. I haven’t read all of the comments on this thread, but it struck a chord. My ex-husband of 11 years divorced me because I put on about 20 lbs. due to infertility drugs. Divorced over 20 lbs. He told the judge that he didn’t find me attractive anymore. 1 year later he married his secretary who was stick thin with b**bs. These are just the facts. I’m over the emotions.

    I turned out okay too. Met a committed man who likes my curves even after giving birth to 2 children. Turned out, I didn’t need those fertility drugs afterall.

  39. Anna,

    Will you be posting the results of your “unoffical” poll? I wish I had time to read all the comments, but I don’t, and I really would like to know whether desi guys prefer “skinny” women, and if so, what they consider that to be. Thanks!

  40. now…for the record (ima bit late for this party)….i would hit that in a new york minute. i wouldnt even need to think twice. i would do things to her in public that would shame my family. i would do things to her that are illegal in most states. i would make her beg for more.

  42. be the first to tell you that she could inspire me to discover a love that dare not speak its naam.

    i’d like to see that…

  43. Hey, what about Indian women being harsher on Indian men about receding hairline. It is seen as a bigger tragedy in the Indian community. We guys feel bad as it is without it being rubbed in regularly. THen again, life is not fair. So we got to live with it.

    Now nothing wrong with preferring your mate to have a full head of hair. But let’s not act like Indian women are above it. I do not buy that Indians are more thin obsessed than non Indians. Color seems to be a bigger concern with the superficial.

  44. But anyway, if I was a guy or played for the other team, the girl in the picture would do it for me…

    I was staying off this thread, but No Desh‘s comment was one of the more crass I have ever come across anywhere in this context, so I wanted to come in and say so. I hope women don’t feel all men think like that or anything. Body image issues are real, of course, but unless someone is unhealthily fat or thin (and then it’s a health issue), it rarely figures in any serious evaluation of mate suitability, for me, and for most men I’ve known. Body image is what you have of yourself, not so much what others think of you. And BTW, men get it also – not just height, also the gut. And hair on the head – or lack of it.

    The woman in the picture seems healthy, has a full set of strong teeth, plenty of hair – so on that level, I’d totally go for her. My turnoffs are usually – too much jewelry, too much makeup, and anything that might signal an excessive obsession with her own looks – plastic surgery, cosmetic dentistry, etc. Usually this degree of self-obsession also signals other personality disorders, which are revealed very soon after you begin talking, if she talks to you at all!

  45. not just height, also the gut. And hair on the head – or lack of it.

    I think confidence can combat all of that. grl usually dont care if your short and bald of your really smooth/charming.

  46. she still qualifies as skinny. the grls that arent in my book are most of the grls i run into. they look like good mates for the michelin man. having a good chest and a great @ss doesnt kick you out of the skinny camp i think…(i know. im drty.)

  48. I think confidence can combat all of that. grl usually dont care if your short and bald of your really smooth/charming.

    now…before you all get any funny ideas, i have a full head of hair and spend time in the gym….although i am son the short side.

  49. To the two or three of you who mentioned that you disagreed with me, about “hot desis” going white, (by saying that maybe it was the brown girls with “less ideal” figures etc who were dating interracially) I respectfully re-direct you to the first sentence of my post. 🙂

    I wrote a post this weekend which questioned certain commenters’ assertions regarding how “hot Desi girls seem to end up with White guys”. We discussed that misconception as well as

    See? No need to disagree.

    I was referring to three commenters, three separate individuals who said things (on a post about the most beautiful people working on The Hill) like, “those two desi girls are attractive…I’ve never dated desi, but that’s because the hot brown girls end up with white guys, like the two here…”

    Hope that clears it all up. 🙂