I wrote a post this weekend which questioned certain commenters’ assertions regarding how “hot Desi girls seem to end up with White guysâ€. We discussed that misconception as well as…well, a few dozen other subjects, but that’s natural over the course of 1,349 comments. One sub-thread which I followed avidly involved I-bankers and their (for some) elusive prey: the skinny, hyper-maintained, hot brown girl with stick-straight hair.
Some of you compassionately responded to your banking brethren, when they plaintively admitted that they weren’t sure where to locate their loins’ fondest desire; instructions, right down to locations, days of the week and yes, auspicious times of day (yo, are we brown or are we BROWN) were offered and happily accepted. Much like the original exchange which inspired my post on interracial dating, which is where this comedy of heir-ers was going down, what I noticed was that these weren’t one-off sentiments. To me, that made them difficult to dismiss.
The one word which kept surfacing, repeatedly, insistently, was skinny.
Predictably, evolved mutineers were outraged and immediately broadcasted it; even more predictable than that, the obligatory, “I can’t help it, it’s just what ruins my boxersâ€- volley occurred, so that there was essentially a stalemate. Around skinny. While all of them pondered if it was okay to come out and say that “skinny†was a requirement, and whether such a requiring was nothing to be ashamed of, I was transfixed by something else which was related, but not discussed.
What did skinny mean in this context?
To some, Kate Moss defines skinny. To others, the woman who is pictured on our left qualifies.
I like to know exactly what I’m offended by, before I gift someone with a new orifice, so I couldn’t get my outrage-on– not until this question was answered. Yes, yes…we should all eschew superficial everything and it’s terrible that we’re judging female books by their covers, but it’s also a gross reality. And I wanted to know how realistic these I(yer) bankers were.
There was another snag—we were discussing Manhattan.
It’s a rarified world and understandably, the benchmarks are different. Everything is relative (and apparently, if you are an Iyengar reading SM, YOU are all relatives…oy, how I wish that I could actually link to relevant comments from MY OWN POST, which would make my attempts at wit successful vs. inscrutable).
In most cities, D.C. included, my 450 sq ft studio is tiny. In Manhattan, my friend is thrilled to have that much space for her ONE-BEDROOM. In most cities, making six figures is awesome. In Manhattan, it barely affords the afore-mentioned shoe-box, rent-wise and that’s if you limit your methods for self-intoxicating to PBR (note: life is too short for PBR, my darlinks). Anyway, if everything is tougher, better, more competitive, more expensive and more EVERYTHING in Manhattan, then…do brown guys expect brown girls to be skinnier, too? And does skinny mean fit? Or just skinny?
My guy friends (the unManhattanites, if you will…I’m not counting the Murray Hill dwellers et al for the purposes of this fluffy post) would line up giddily for a shot at the gorgeous girl above. Would our I(yengar) bankers? I think we have a bit of a vested interest in all this; the majority of the Desi vomen whom I am privileged to know are curvaceous, if they’re out of their teens. For most men, that’s a good thing. My male buddies don’t like straight lines—on the roads they’re about to break laws on or…uh…you know.
Curves are good. Right? Left? Those are definitely curves, on the left.
So, as I said memorably (and almost 1,700 comments ago!), out with it then. Let’s have the truth. What do you want? Is the woman I’ve wrapped this post around zaftig or is she just right? Err, left? You know what I mean. And this ain’t no heteronormative joint. I’ll be the first to tell you that she could inspire me to discover a love that dare not speak its naam. 😉 What about you?
::
isin’t that a picture of you ANNA?? or may be your sister?
While it easily could be, because my sister and I both have huge, bubble-like Malayalee kundis which resemble two coconuts attached to our lower back, and yes, apparently we also both have “thunder-thighs” like our helpful model above, no, it’s neither me nor my little sister.
I look exactly like that in jeans.
I am dismayed that some of you think that her thighs are ugly, but to each their own; we are attracted to what we are attracted to and that’s that. I bring this up not to call you out (S, you know you and labbie singh are my peeps), but to speak to the women who are lurking, who have body image issues. Because believe me, they are here and they are reading this. They inspired this.
I have no problems in NYC or SF or DC…guess my hatred-since-infancy of LA has protected me from an eating disorder, since I am a size 8, not a size 4, and that is too big for La-La land.
I like my body. I like it so much, I don’t give a shit about telling you the truth– I am 5’6″ and I weigh a whopping 148 lbs. I’ve gained weight, since hurting my leg, because I no longer get to walk the three miles home from work. To go from walking more than 20 miles a week to not being mobile at all…well, it takes a toll. I’ve gained eight pounds, which I can’t be fucked to cry over, because I’m more upset over losing lean mass and the ability to walk comfortably, without pain or this huge, heavy, unwieldy cast on my leg.
To the young woman whose email to me on Facebook inspired this entire post:
Please stop calling yourself “fat” and “ugly”. You look exactly like this picture, I know, because I went through your albums and found one taken at a similar angle. You don’t have luck with desi guys in NYC because of timing, circumstance or that nakshatram with the tree or whatever– NOT BECAUSE YOU ARE OBESE. When you kept reading about how guys like Puli et al want “skinny” desi girls, in the mega-thread, they were talking about you, my darling girl.
I proved this. I proved my point.
The majority of men on this thread think that the woman pictured above isn’t just beautiful but hot, gorgeous, attractive, ideal.
Please eat your lunch today. And your dinner. And work-out, but do so because your heart and lungs and future grandchildren deserve to be taken care of– you’re too precious to starve, especially at your own hands.
To quote you, “Shocker. Indian girls have eating disorders, too.”
Well, they shouldn’t have to– no human should. Eat. Be healthy. Fall in love with yourself. Life is too short for bullshit, and that goes for all of you.
Thunder thighed-Anna, over and out.
Camille, I hear you. I just want people to talk about it, because hopefully that means they’re thinking about it. I really was struck by how often “skinny” kept popping up.
It reminds me a little bit of Bollywood and the skin color thing. What’s realistic? What are we idealizing? What do real people actually look like and how dangerous is the disconnect?
You know, I feel so lucky that when I was small, the desi filim stars I saw were just as curvaceous if not rounder than the woman pictured above.
Far more people lurk vs. comment. A lot of the lurkers are female (which is a whole other pet peeve of mine– when girls don’t feel safe/confident/able to raise their voices…it makes me mad AND sad). The lurkers often write to me, when they’re just about to burst…even as they find themselves unable to comment. Most of the time, I’m so moved or affected by their letters, I write a post…even if I don’t explicitly state what my “inspiration” or prompt was. Everyone is entitled to look down on me for writing this, but I think it needed to be written.
Yes, interracial dating may have “easier” or more obvious answers than this, but I loathe the insinuation that I should somehow avoid topics because there’s no clear-cut answer to a rhetorical question. That’s not me. I think there are definite bits of this thread which most, if not all of us can agree on– the double-standard regarding “skinny bitches” vs not being able to say “fat…”, is one. I’m not trying to single anyone out.
Look, if it bothers people so much, don’t comment here.
But don’t say that we shouldn’t talk about things, because they’re “too risky”…that makes me want to break something.
dude, it’s SM light for the summertime – they’re on hiatus
apparently, abhi is also on some sort of hiatus of his own 😉
despite protests of fluffiness, i am actually finding this very interesting, and informative – my guy friends are either too ‘polite’ to talk about such things with me, or they categorically like super-skinny girls.
i’m going to have to take exception to that!
I think because, if someone told me there was something wrong with me for being brown, I would write them off as an idiot. If someone told me I should lose weight, I think I would be offended that they thought it was ok to tell me what THEY think I should be, instead of letting me be happy with who I am, already.
I must live in a different universe. For me, these kind of conversations are actually a lot more common among non Indian circles. I have heard jokes about fat women in both Indian and non Indian circles.
WHat would be interesting is if any Indian women are succumbing to the ghastly breast implant craze among many women these days. Our regulations are so strict with pain medications and experimental drugs, but seems to have no problems with a procedure like breast implants which are medically not the safest and are not medically necessary. It seems like every other celeb has implants now. What about Indian celebs and rich Indian kids in India and here. Have you noticed anyone succumbing to this pressure?
Sure, no problem.
Which of you iBanking, ivy-alums is willing to let me put up his resume?
Personally, I find this post interesting – as from the interracial dating post, there were so many remarks by girls saying, “indian guys like the super-skinny” —– nobody seemed to take offense then.
I think this post won’t generate as much remarks as the “dating a white guy” post, b/c that post definitely generated a lot of heartfelt and funny stories. For me this is a post about short opinions among desis, stemming from 15,000 times in the other post, girls saying “indian guys like the skinny…” .
I’m curious – Why would you roll your eyes to this:”I prefer rail thin heroin-chic models to women who are packing in the back,” ?
Would you also roll your eyes if someone said, “i like my women curvy”?
Divya must be busy with her i-banker–would love (sarc.) to see her views on this!
The woman in the pic is a little too slender. I have no opinion on her outfit, being fashion-challenged myself.
Here’s a zaftig woman: http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=933
THIS is a zaftig woman with class!
Nice word by the way – zaftig. Since it came from the German Saft (juice), I suppose originally meant juicy?
By the way, can someone with some medical/anthropometric knowledge say whether the whole endomorph/ectomorph typing of bodies is legitimate or not?
I dont’ understand why there is anything to be uncomfortable about here. Granted, there is no right answer or correct definitions when it comes to size, it’s all opinion. But, why should any of us women feel bad discussing this topic? I think women get depressed wayy too easily discussing these things and that is sad.
I think you’ll all agree with me, male or female, it’s all about confidence and attitude. When someone is confident and positive about their size in a non-haughty way, it shows and they exude sex appeal. People will gravitate towards them.
I think ALL women have body issues, whether a size 0 or size 22. It’s sad that women have to feel depressed when discussing body shapes vs. something like hair types or dating outside our culture.
She’s not fat. Though I’m not a fan of tight blue jeans, she appears to be a pretty and attractive woman.
Having one photograph and therefore only one angle with no other object in full view makes it hard to get ratios and proportions, holds me back from commenting whole heartedly.
Skinny Indian women? I find Indian women these days to be quite beautiful and curvy in all the right places. Actually I would say Indian women are coming into their own world-wide.
Yes, I know ABDs who’ve had implants…they weren’t “rich”, either. I think you can get those things on installment plans/via financing.
I think nose jobs are more popular, but that’s just based on what I’ve seen among acquaintances, over the past decade.
since we are not walking on eggshells here, it is also a question of relative size, especially with desi men. Many desi men are naturally skinny atmost athletic. It is then natural they’d want women who are not look heavier than them. Just because men are “longer” (and prolly because of that weigh more) doesn’t mean “part” weights of arms and thighs do not count.
I’m finding some of the rxns to this post most interesting, of all…
105 · Pravin What about Indian celebs and rich Indian kids in India and here. Have you noticed anyone succumbing to this pressure
I personally know a lot of Desis who have had cosmetic surgery, mostly family members–so, yes!
Sorry, I wasn’t trying to insinuate that we shouldn’t be discussing this (and I’m going to go ahead and assume this wasn’t directed at me, but more broadly). I was just trying to understand why people are uncomfortable, and was talking through that process of understanding by typing. I actually think it’s really important to put these kind of “uncomfortable” topics out there, and to do so respectfully. I think the mega-post was actually a great example of a relatively idiot-free, honest, conversation.
ak, I’m with you — my guy friends are not super honest about their preferences, but I think it’s because they’re trying not to hurt our feelings. That said, sometimes I wish guys WOULD just say, “you know what? I am definitely swayed by X, Y, Z, factors, and I like the rail thin look” or “I loooove curves.” I think some of the crappy feelings come from the hyper-prevalence of the rail-thin archetype and the lack of celebration around the curves-type (e.g. the vicious comments on the latest Dove campaigns).
Scorps – my feeling doesn’t stem from personal body issues. In fact I’m an unusually and somewhat annoyingly cocky female. What bugs me is the forced sense of passivity these kinds of evaluations inspire…like the one in the situation I described in my comment above. I don’t think men are instantly evaluated on their size, shape etc in the way women are. It’s like people feel a right to annihilate a woman’s humanity in favour of her shape all the time. It doesn’t matter how hot you are. Honestly, being found and told you are uber-hot can be JUST as depressing as being told you are fat. It’s about not being SEEN. It’s about constantly being reduced to your shape, size, butt, breasts etc. That’s what makes me uncomfortable about this exercise – the knowledge that women are always being minimized in this way.
No need to apologize, my friend. It was VERY broadly directed at all, not at a broad. 🙂
Oh, that makes sense. Color me sorry for not picking up on that then.
Thank you, for understanding that. I really, really appreciate it. The doing so “respectfully” is my entire goal. It’s not easy, but when we manage to look at things that way, it’s amazing (like the mega-thread!).
as has been said in the recent ‘controversy’ over HRC’s cleavage show.
I also wanted to mention that Beyonce was about 10-15 lbs lighter than she was in this picture at one time for a movie role, and afterwards gained it all back voluntarily, deeming herself too “skinny”. Although she was nowhere near Kate Moss level, she still felt she was too thin and lost some of her “curves”. I think that has a lot to do with African-American culture and their standards and ideals of beauty for a woman. Whereas, if Beyonce were white, would she easily want to put that weight back on? I look at Black actresses out there and not a lot of them border the “dangerously thin” realm that a lot of White actresses do. The White standard of beauty is very different. I think minority cultures do prefer a shapelier woman. I’ve noticed even Bollywood starlets trimming down these days. I saw a picture of Kareena and Karishma Kapoor a few months ago and almost didnt’ recognize them.
Is our body shape attractiveness scale based on Hollywood/White America or Minority/International standards? I think it varies for all of us and therein lies the differences of opinion.
I think because, if someone told me there was something wrong with me for being brown, I would write them off as an idiot. If someone told me I should lose weight, I think I would be offended that they thought it was ok to tell me what THEY think I should be, instead of letting me be happy with who I am, already.
Camille, in your sample and in the comments people aren’t saying what You ought to be…they are giving their opinions on what they find attractive. Just like they give their opinions on what they think of the Taliban or Tamil movies or religion. Everyone obviously is attracted to different types; what’s attractive to one, mayn’t be attractive to others.
Anyways despite all the comments on the interracial dating thread on the fact that “desi guys like skinny…with straight hair…” most of the men who’ve commented on this thread have pointed out the above pic is hot and they don’t prefer skinny girls. Maybe its just SM men (or women).
But I do think in India there’s definitely a preference for curvy, rather than the stick-thin model types that seem more popular in the US. I just love the Indian actresses, even today (despite having a skin color so different than mine) with their lovely curves – looks so great on them. My mom used to have that look and I just thought she was so pretty in her when she was younger (now I see her as pretty b/c of other things but I don’t envy her figure anymore) – she was one of those women who gained her weight in all the right places.
DQ,
I understand and agree with everything you typed.
…and I sincerely hope you believe me when I say that I don’t support that, at all. I just had to put up a visual, so everyone was discussing the same concept.
When my friend called this woman (in this exact picture) FAT, I was disgusted. Then I remembered all the “skinny” in the uber-thread and THEN I checked my email…and that’s why everything I had to do tonight was put off by an hour– I just had to address this. I am really sorry that I’ve made you uncomfortable. You’re someone whose words and presence I value, a lot.
I wouldn’t, but there is a clear difference, and no, it is not because of a “double standard” I hold against skinny women. It’s because the idea of being skinny (as per scorps’ definition) is lauded, applauded, and splayed EVERYWHERE in our mass media. Even Scarlett Johanssen and Kate Winslet are NOT, in my opinion, “big” or “curvaceous” (used as euphemism for “big”) — they just approach slender. If there were a broader amount of attention paid to a wide variety of body types, I doubt I would roll my eyes at all.
pingpong, that makes my back and chest hurt just WATCHING it 🙂
Anna, could you make this a recurring theme? You know, like the regular 55Friday, could we have this FitOrFat Foto Feature once in a while?
106 · A N N A Which of you iBanking, ivy-alums is willing to let me put up his resume?
I’m a ivy-alum–But not an i-Banker, and tempted–But ultimately too shy–sorry! MayBe post-surgery. Seriously, my moms has said she’ll pay for it. Is this somehow taBoo with most Desis…. Have hit a nerve here–sorry.
No. 😀
But thank you for asking. It was funny.
Jennifer Tilly, Sarita Chowdhury(had to name drop her as this is an Indian blog) – good curvy. Monique, Gurindher Chada – bad curvy though in Monique’s case no curves. She is more like the blob.
Nicole Richie – if you are into banging skeletons
Noticed Indian women from India tend to focus on “slimming” down instead of working out and toning themselves.
You know. You can put guys on the defensive over here by focussing on Indian guys tendency to have a lot of body hair. Chest hair, back hair, neck hair……..a******.
i was grossly underweight from 0-18, healthy weight from 17-25, and now ping-pong every few months between chubby and healthy/toned. i have a petite frame and put on fat very unevenly; this means that even at a size 4, if i haven’t been going to the gym, it is not a very aesthetically pleasing size 4. anyway, i have had virtually NO psychological issues with my weight or my figure (head hair, body hair, etc. are another story) — in fact, eating disorders are kind of a “pet cause” of mine. anyway, i have really resented the fact that hundreds of people — friends and strangers alike — have implied that i must have some sort of eating disorder or unhealthy relationship with food in order to remain so skinny. and i equally resent people who criticize skinny girls for complaining about that implication. why should i be the target for someone else’s misplaced frustration? in my recent bouts with chubbiness, nobody will dare comment that i’m some sort of piggy, yet most people think it’s ok to rag on the skinny girl. grr. i have been present while a boyfriend’s friend asked him why he was dating a “stick with tits” and i see on this thread the snide comments about “twigs with boobs.” i don’t think the twigs need be apologetic about it, whatever the reason; and if they do have an eating disorder, hopefully they’ll get help. the most attractive woman i met recently had flawless skin, amazing bone structure, gorgeous shiny straight hair — and she was probably 50 pounds overweight and wore it beautifully.
What? The comic makes your back hurt? The video I can understand – such class! Class I say! She really should have tied up her hair before jumping around.
DQ, I feel you.
I’ve noticed this, too, and I’ve also noticed that I get MUCH more positive attention from other men of color than from desi guys, white guys, or East Asian guys. Maybe this is just my social circle, as well, but I do think there’s something to be said about a differing community-level concept (or at least, a broader definition) of beauty.
PS, that’s fine, I was just responding to a question I was asked. And, in the way the question was framed, I was asked why I was bothered more by something I could change. Let’s be clear — I can’t change my body type (nor do I want to). Even if I were to starve myself and work out 3 hours/day, it would be pretty damn hard for me to shrunk my hips to a size narrower than my shoulders. It just wouldn’t happen. I would always be the same shape, the difference would be how much “meat” I had on my bones. But there is an assumption, nonetheless, that I can and should change my type. I know that’s not what was being suggested, but it is often an implicit aspect of size comments.
I know it’s not personal, nor is it about me, but there is something to be said when the men around you (and I am not talking about SM) consistently talk about their “ideal type” and it is clearly nowhere near what you are. I’m perfectly fine/comfortable/happy with myself and my body, but I would be lying if I said that discussions on “ideal type” often irritate me.
127 · Pravin You can put guys on the defensive over here by focussing on Indian guys tendency to have a lot of body hair. Chest hair, back hair, neck hair
Defensive–uhhh— I don’t want to be some dolphiny-smooth himbo!!
Anna, that’s really lovely of you. I also appreciate your posts very much. I did suspect that you put this post up in order to finally drag the skeleton out of the closet. What prompted my comments was disgust at the quickness with which I jumped on the bandwagon and evaluated the image. It’s like bashing the hated co-worker with other co-workers – it leaves you with a bad taste after because it’s too easy, and too abusive.
Yes confidence and attitude exude sex appeal. Some of the most emotional damaged people who are physically pretty are like wet rags on desire.
I’m a bit surprised reading the responses of Desi women on the topic. Do men really comment on it that much or is this a more a perception thing?
milli,
i understand how you feel – this in particular was well-said: i have really resented the fact that hundreds of people — friends and strangers alike — have implied that i must have some sort of eating disorder or unhealthy relationship with food in order to remain so skinny. and i equally resent people who criticize skinny girls for complaining about that implication. why should i be the target for someone else’s misplaced frustration?
Haha, except desi guys DO NOT have the market cornered on body hair! Wasn’t that another subtopic of the megathread? Hair culture/politics/preferences? 😉
pingpong, the video. I love QC 🙂
So, Milli, let me summarize this:
Age Size 0-18 – Ping Pong 17-25 – Ding Dong Now and then – King Kong?
/runs away
sh*t, sorry, posted #96 on wrong thread. i wish there were a way to ask the intern to help move it over to the RIP thread. but seeing as how busy the intern is with gigantic threads and all, I can only apologize and copy it there.
100 per cent of western women regardless of intelligence have a dysfunctional body image.
dont try to disprove me.
a study should be done on the effect of burkas on body images.
Now and then – King Kong?
Only using the same scale that considers the girl in this picture FAT!
😉
Sometimes curvy is misused by some in the African American community or any woman regardless of any race who tend to label themselves as DIVAs Curves are good when they are curves. But past a certain point, do not confuse ROLLS with CURVES. FOr there to be a curve, you need to have some thin areas to accentuate what is a curve.
Chest hair is good to hide man boobs. Back hair – still trying to figure out the purpose of that.
In my experience, men really do comment on size THAT much. Again, selection bias or whatever, but I wouldn’t be surprised if my experience is uncommon.
Apropos of nothing: years ago my computer’s hard disk used to be FAT. These days it’s NTFS.
/gets a beating for displaying ingenious sense of humor
They really do comment on it that much.
Chest hair is good to hide man boobs. Back hair – still trying to figure out the purpose of that.
that cracks me up 🙂 – do you know from experience?
She is not LA skinny. She is average.
Re: 92 and 94
I’m sorry, my perception was that the double standard was primarily directed against fat people. There’s a rather common perception of them as lazy and lacking will power, generally held by people not too familiar with obesity research. See, for instance, the work done on leptin.
I once thought dark body hair makes someone look slimmer, in the same sense that dark clothes are supposed to be slimming. I don’t know of any scientific research done on this question. Maybe I should shave off part of my chest hair in vertical strips, so that I have vertical stripes AND dark body hair. Surely that should make me popular with the ladies?
PS. you ever notice manboobs seem more obvious on guys with less chest hair. I am not embarassed by my chest hair. If I get backhair, i am lasering those suckas off.
yes, that was unexpectedly vicious. what i’ve found is that my guy friends who prefer skinny girls only are vocal about it, while the others don’t say it – and often just show it by thir choices in women (or maybe it’s just that some are more open to all typees so cannot make categorical statements). in any case, i wish my guy friends were more vocal – i’d really like to know, and plus, it’s not as if i’m going to go out with any of them, skinny or not, so no personal offense taken.
by far the best comment i have read on SM…