…on behalf of three misguided hecklers (thanks, Anonymous). I guess I wasn’t the only Christian who was saddened by the actions of a few fringe-dwellers. See? Team Jesus isn’t totally teh suck. 🙂
Zed told rediff.com from his home in Reno, Nevada, “I’ve received nearly 100 e-mails — and most of them from total strangers and I don’t know how they got my e-mail address — apologising for the disruption of my prayer by some of these Christian fundamentalists.”
He said many of these e-mails had said, “I am also a Christian but I don’t appreciate what happened with those people protesting, and I apologise for their misguided actions.“
“They also congratulated me for my prayer and for being the first Hindu chaplain to open a US Senate session,” he said.
He said that he had also received some e-mails from some Congressional aides who had also apologised for the disruption by these persons purporting to be from a group calling themselves Operation Save America, a Christian right-wing organisation.
What’s more wicked: intolerance or humbly offering a prayer?
The protestors shouted from the gallery, among other things, ‘Lord Jesus, forgive us father for allowing a prayer of the wicked, which is an abomination in your sight.’
They should ask for forgiveness for being obnoxious.
Zed said he had not received a single hate mail “or any kind of nasty mail at all. I have not got any negative mail or correspondence.”
So, goodness prevailed. More goodness? Recognizing that Hindus are just as American as anyone else and deserve to be treated as such. As long as prayers do open the Senate, they should be inclusive, to accurately reflect the various faiths that a Senator’s constituents practice. It’s only polite. And right:
Meanwhile, the Interfaith Conference of Metropolitan Washington, DC, wrote letters to Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, Nevada Democrat, who facilitated Zed’s prayer in the Senate, and to the Senate Chaplain Barry C Black congratulating them for facilitating the first Hindu prayer in the Senate and bemoaning the unfortunate incident of the protest by the members of the Christian right-wing outfit…
“We are writing to express how much we deeply appreciate your efforts to insure that the tradition of opening Senate sessions with prayer remains a process that not only accurately reflects the diversity of our great country, but which celebrates that religious diversity as one of our greatest strengths.”
I eagerly await irrational and inapposite comments which ask, “But…where are the apologetic emails to Graham Staines’ loved ones from Hindus, who should be collectively responsible for his brutal murder? Huh??” Oh, wait…I don’t. Such comments are not germane (or logical for that matter).
Similarly, Christians aren’t collectively to blame for the rude, disrespectful outburst which interrupted Zed, but that doesn’t mean we can’t express our sorrow and disagreement with such behavior. All that is necessary for the triumph of fundamentalism is that good people do nothing. Whatsoever we sow, we shall also reap. If we sow intolerance and disrespect, what else are we going to be shown by others? And would we deserve anything else?
Oh, and animals, how could I have forgotten all my animals–my dogs, my squirrels, my parakeets, my mice…they have all been there, giving warmth, comfort in MY times of need (I don’t know what they got out of the bargain, but that’s a whole other discussion).
“Oh, and animals, how could I have forgotten all my animals–my dogs..”
god is dog spelled backwards. i’ve always thought there’s something there 🙂
Me too. 🙂
“god is dog spelled backwards. i’ve always thought there’s something there 🙂
Me too. :)”
great minds think alike 🙂
Don’t forget that LION when written on a piece of paper, and viewed upside down, reads as NO.17. This mistaken reading of the dying scrawl of a repentant henchman of the villain, Ajit, leads the hero on a wild goose chase for 2+ hours while Ajit can continue to declare with impunity that Saara shahar mujhe loyan ke naam se jaanta hai.
“Don’t forget that LION when written on a piece of paper, and viewed upside down, reads as NO.17. This mistaken reading of the dying scrawl of a repentant henchman of the villain, Ajit, leads the hero on a wild goose chase for 2+ hours while Ajit can continue to declare with impunity that Saara shahar mujhe loyan ke naam se jaanta hai.”
hmm. is that a real movie? and i’m sure you were handy with the calculator at school.
Aboslutely false. Tamil Nadu is overwhelmingly Hindu theist but has had no problem electing “rationalist” governments hostile to religion over the past 50 years. Even Hindu “fundamentalists” don’t have a problem with non-belief….Sarvarkar was an atheist. The idea that there can be no moral grounding without faith is an Abrahamic idea. These misconceptions arise out of the misapplication of terms like “fundamentalist” and the tendency of liberals to create evidence that all religions are equally intolerant on matters of theology. They aren’t. Hindu violence & intolerance has more to do with a fascist, unreasoned response to historical grievances (real and imagined), not theology. I’ve never heard of any Hindu arguing against Christian theology over the point of transubstantiation or the nature of the trinity.
sure. they will elect them or whatever, but im just talking about a bunch of people informally in a room. nothing political or anything.
You’re entitled to your opinion, but the fact of the matter is that Hindus do not regard atheists with the same level of distrust as Christians or Muslims. Most Americans will not elect an atheist to office
again. im not talking about elections or anything.
I might be conflating the Ajit dialogue and the LION/NO17 bits from separate movies, but there exist movies (maybe even the same one) incorporating these plot points.
EVR declared himself an atheist, but wasn’t the main focus of his movement anti-Brahminical? As for the current Dravida-foo crop, I am always amazed/amused at the hypocrisy of these “atheists” who propitiate assorted deities and idols pre-election so that they don’t incur the wrath of the god they don’t believe in.
The notion of self-identifying as an atheist while still hugging on to assorted aspects of overwhelmingly Hindu culture and using that to discriminate/question Muslims and Christians is a bastardization of the entire idea of atheism, in my opinion.
whatever. you can’t quantify the funny looks atheists get from Hindus. I can give demonstratable evidence that Hindus don’t link moral character or ability with belief. At the end of the day some people, I’m not saying you, need to find evidence to fit their PC world view (i.e. that all religions are screwed up in the same way).
i think each religion is screwed up in its on unique endemic way.
No, it was anti-theist but Brahmins unfortunately found themselves at the receiving end as they controlled most of the religious institutions. The Dravidianist parties then exploited this to indulge in vote bank politics over reservation etc.
how is that PC? i would think calling a religion screwed up is pretty politically incorrect. in a PC world your supposed to respect other peoples nonsensical beliefs as valid and true and another equal perspective non?
louiecypher, I don’t believe that religions are screwed up in the same way, but your perspective seems to argue that the theological aspects of religion are some greater inherent truth than the cultural aspects. In practice, I think both evolve in intertwined ways and they can together have pernicious aspects. Of course, different religions are in different stages of growth, maturity etc. and this changes the way they are “screwed up”.
That’s my point. Elected officials were not as much atheist, as exploiting a caste based agenda.
The only “real” atheist that I can think of who was elected to public office was Nehru. His case is a little different because he had the endorsement of Gandhi, and had also played a prominent part in the freedom struggle. I’m genuinely interested in hearing about other cases, though.
That said, Hinduism in India 50 years ago was very different from the Hindutva practice of the last 15-20 years.
Yes, thank you, Rahul.
You mean for political purposes ‘religious’ Hindus join hands with cultural ‘Hindus’ to turn their backs on other people of faith?
Much of the Bengali communist party is openly atheist, including the current Chief Minister; they regularly chide their minions who slip up in the districts by offering a flower to Durga. I believe the relevance of the atheist position is heightened in the West, primarily because the Abrahamic understanding equates religion with an assertion of absolute truth. Within the Hindu framework, the existence of very many relativist, skeptical and non-theistic approaches–and a nautral pluralist framework– makes the matter somewhat marginal. Would a figure like Dawkins, who mimics the very worst Christian preachers in his proselytism be necessary? I doubt it.
Like this? Calcutta has huge Durga Pujo celebrations with the active participation of government officials.
not theology. I’ve never heard of any Hindu arguing against Christian theology over the point of transubstantiation or the nature of the trinity.
Many Hindus find the idea of transubstantiation to be cannibalistic and revolting – but yes, in general, the approach to combat proselytism has not involved theological argument. Hindus are too grounded in spirtual universalism at the moment to even begin to do that critically.
“I might be conflating the Ajit dialogue and the LION/NO17 bits from separate movies, but there exist movies (maybe even the same one) incorporating these plot points.”
good to know. now i can stop wracking my brain, trying to remember this scene 🙂
I’ve never heard ANY of my non-xtian friends say this. Characterizing communion as “cannibalism” is as immature and superficial as saying, “eeew, Kali has a skull necklace” or “Hindus worship a penis”. It’s just ignorant.
It’s really interesting to note who is commenting what, since some of you are using a different handle on this thread than you normally do. That itself is telling.
Growing up, I actually thought it was cool that there was a socially sanctioned way for kids to get a taste of wine. That’s before I understood the concept of backwash though 🙂
Kalicharan “Saara shahar mujhe loin (sic) ke naam se pahechanta hai” etc. etc.
Rahul, Would you be thinking of “Yaadon ki Baarat ” by any chance as one of those movies ?
And – thread-jack alert – I love “Ajit jokes”. Sample : ( said in best imitation- Ajit accent): ” Usko liquid oxygen mein dubaa do – liquid usko jeene nahin dega, oxygen usko marne nahin dega.Agar liquid oxygen nahin hai to liquid nitrogen mein dubaa do.Saala superconductor ban jayega – zindagi bhar ticket kaatega!”
I have plenty more like that one but will spare you all!
To answer that all important question in this thread;
The Ajit dialogue, No.17 and LION are all from the same movie……a “classic” Hindi movie from the ’70’s called Kalicharan, made by Subash Ghai.
The movie made Ajit an icon, Ajit jokes became legend, and Shatrugan Sinha evolved from movie villain to hero.
No, Kalicharan has the famous loyan line (Shodan pointed it out), but I don’t know where the LION/NO17 thing is from (maybe Yaadon Ki Baaraat, I don’t remember all the details of that movie. Yes, sacrilege, I know). I looked for the Kalicharan clip on youtube to actually link to my original comment, but the Internets failed me (maybe Quizman can come to the rescue). I found this as a poor second, though.
I didn’t know the liquid nitrogen extension to the liquid oxygen line. Thanks, Runa!
Raabert, meet Sunil! Aaj raat tumhaara prize mona ke saath sona.
Rahul,
Now you did it. The further extension is : “Agar liquid nitrogen bhi nahin hai to varnish mein dubaa do.Saala mar bhi jaayega aur finish bhi acchi hogi”
( Note to self : must resist further posts!)
LION/NO17 thing is from
I think it is from Kalicharran – Shatrughan Sinha, Reena Roy, Ajit, Ranjit starrer. I am not sure either.
Right now, my focus is on who dies in the upcoming Harry Potter.
Rahul, Look for the party scene from Kalicharan. A circular panel lit up w/ LION, keeps twirling. Revealing the deadly mystery of NO17. Vikram Chandra was referring to Bombay rats like me in Sacred Games whe he says “Even people who claim to hate hindi films know everything about them”.
NO SPOILERS, ANYONE! I’ve been careful not to read a single review or article in the past week about the book. Even the Michiko Kakutani one taunting me on the New York Times homepage.
Shodan, hopefully we will meet one day. And I can convey my awe and respect at your unsurpassed knowledge by prostrating before your Bollywood-infused presence.
Am I the only brown who has not read the adventures of HP?
I haven’t read a single one, Shodan-chayan.
haven’t read the harry potter books, but have since a bit of one of the movies. one newspaper had an article in which they interviewed psychiatrists about how parents should help their children deal with any deaths in the new harry potter book. something about helping your children cope with the death of a literary character! my parents let me down badly in that respect. we just had to deal with it (or relish it).
WaPo litcrit on Haribhai.
Me neither. A girl I met on match.com once asked me that, like the second or third thing she asked me. It struck me then as weird, because I had always thought of the HP books were meant for pre-teens.
But on the topic of this thread – she was a ‘full-blooded’ WASP who had ‘accepted Hinduism’, and had visited India like, dozens of times – every year with her mother since she turned 10, if I remember right – and was still in search of her ‘true guru’.
chachaji, you dated PG???
My grandparents who were born at the beginning of the 20th century were agnostic. A lot of my relatives are agnostic. I am agnostic bordering on athiesm depending on the day. I have never been looked at as weird for my lack of religious belief. I grew up in both countries as a kid. I can say with utmost confidence that it is much less of a deal for an athiest to win office in India than the USA.
My earlier posts show that I am well aware of the ways in which the Hinduism of “caste Hindus” can go awry. I’ll go as far as to say that if any non-scientific reductionist philosophy predominates in India I hope it is Buddhism (the real kind, not the political Ambedkarite strain).
So what? That argument doesn’t work in a Hindu framework. According to Hindus, God has incarnated many times and in at least some of those incarnations has had children.
It’s hard to see how arguments like the above and like, “it’s written in the Bible” are supposed to convince people who do not already accept these statements as axioms. Although I’ve had it tried on me many times.
Rahul
Mujhko teen cheez pasand hai
mona , sona aur mona ke saath sona
Kush
More than fifty 😛
Can you let us know who those “atheists” are who propitiate assorted deities before elections?..
Also, I often hear that it is the “lower castes” who convert to Christianity because of “material benefits”. Do you have any numbers on who converts and from what caste?. The three instances I know of are actually Brahmin girls ,one became a Muslim and the other two Christians because of marriage , but I have also seen the opposite with my Christian friend became a Hindu after getting married to a Hindu girl. Maybe I’m not aware of the “money based” conversions, but the ones I have seen are because of marriage.
Anyhow I fully support if people get money and convert. It is their life and they can decide how to live and what story to believe. If they get a house and a few thousand rupees with that more power to them. let them convert. :-).
One more thing to support my assertion that not all the converts are from lower castes..
link
Now Iyengar is a Tamil brahmin caste. and she is the leader of Madhya Pradesh Catholics. 🙂
Ponniyin Selvan, This shud explain your observvation:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caste_system_among_Indian_Christians
I don’t think anyone would have had a problem if individuals just took money and believed whatever tale they want. Religion is not just about believing some tales and believing a different God I guess. Religion (with some critical mass) and political power usually go hand in hand..
So what, I don’t have a problem if “historically oppressed” persons get the political power by converting to other religions if they can’t get it using their own set of tales.. I don’t believe that it is the lower castes that convert due to missionary activities throwing money, unless I see the data on conversions..
So, Christianity as “liberation theology” only at best gives hope and the impetus to convert, but afterward it’s the same old situation. As one should expect, since it’s the same society. (This observation obviously applies no matter which religion and which society we are talking about.)
(I am addressing this part of Samir’s #39:
)