Pilgrims is the name commonly applied to early settlers of the Plymouth Colony in present-day Massachusetts. Their leadership came from a religious congregation who had fled a volatile political environment in the East Midlands of England for the relative calm of Holland in the Netherlands. Concerned with losing their cultural identity, the group later arranged with English investors to establish a new colony in North America…Their story has become a central theme in United States cultural identity. [wiki]
This country was born because people desired the freedom to worship their God in their own way. To me, that is so American.
To have the freedom to be yourself, to be entitled to respect, to experience tolerance instead of persecution…these are the central themes with which I define my American identity.
What else is American? E pluribus unum. Out of many, one. One cultural identity, comprised of hundreds of influences, origins and traditions. If you take a step back and ponder it, America seems like a miraculous idea; you start to respect the safeguards put in place to protect people. One of the most significant? The separation between church and state. This is where things get complicated, but that’s not a bad thing. Everyone is complicated, why should we expect our nations not to be? Yes, there are religious words on money and everyone knows that there is a Judeo-Christian foundation to a lot of what is considered American…but there is also respect for other ideas. Or at least, there should be. At the very least, there should be the freedom for others to worship their God, in their own way, no matter what you or I think about it. There should be mutual respect. There should be.
A Hindu clergyman made history Thursday by offering the Senate’s morning prayer, but only after police officers removed three shouting protesters from the visitors’ gallery.
Rajan Zed, director of interfaith relations at a Hindu temple in Reno, Nev., gave the brief prayer that opens each day’s Senate session. As he stood at the chamber’s podium in a bright orange and burgundy robe, two women and a man began shouting ”this is an abomination” and other complaints from the gallery.
Police officers quickly arrested them and charged them disrupting Congress, a misdemeanor. The male protester told an AP reporter, ”we are Christians and patriots” before police handcuffed them and led them away. [NYT]
No, you are Christians and fools. Way to make Team Jesus look awful, as you misrepresent everything that the man stood for and preached.
For several days, the Mississippi-based American Family Association has urged its members to object to the prayer because Zed would be ”seeking the invocation of a non-monotheistic god.” [NYT]
Yes, because the prayer he offered was SO offensive to actual Christians, agnostics or those who have been touched by a noodly appendage:
Zed, the first Hindu to offer the Senate prayer, began: ”We meditate on the transcendental glory of the Deity Supreme, who is inside the heart of the Earth, inside the life of the sky and inside the soul of the heaven. May He stimulate and illuminate our minds.”
As the Senate prepared for another day of debate over the Iraq war, Zed closed with, ”Peace, peace, peace be unto all.” [NYT]
Let me tell you something about what that Uncle said– it was far kinder and more welcoming than a lot of what I heard in Catholic school, especially if the Pope was involved. For shame. Perhaps the most offensive aspect of his spiritual offering was its emphasis on peace?
Zed, who was born in India, was invited by Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev. Speaking in the chamber shortly after the prayer, Reid defended the choice and linked it to the war debate.
”If people have any misunderstanding about Indians and Hindus,” Reid said, ”all they have to do is think of Gandhi,” a man ”who gave his life for peace.”
”I think it speaks well of our country that someone representing the faith of about a billion people comes here and can speak in communication with our heavenly Father regarding peace,” said Reid, a Mormon and sharp critic of President Bush’s Iraq policies. [NYT]
As several of you pointed out via email, news tab and flaming arrow, THIS is the money quote:
Barry W. Lynn, executive director of Americans United for Separation of Church and State, said the protest ”shows the intolerance of many religious right activists. They say they want more religion in the public square, but it’s clear they mean only their religion.” [NYT]
What these Jesus-freaks are forgetting is that Christ was a man of peace. He didn’t surround himself with the pious and faux-righteous; he called those people out, as he deliberately and controversially chose to befriend the lowest of the low, tax collectors, prostitutes and the like. Was there ever a better example of tolerance in the Christian faith?
As I bitterly read the articles about this troubling, hurtful incident, I am reminded of those who persecuted Jesus, for what they perceived as his “blasphemy”. Two thousand years later, some of his so-called followers have become so drunk off of hate and fundamentalism, they cannot see straight, they cannot grasp that if this were two millenia ago, Jesus would be the man in the orange robe and they, they would be the hypocrites who attacked him and then cheered at his suffering.
I agree with Kush Tandon that you are over simplifying the issues, but at the same time you are also not getting the point. Sikh violence in New Delhi, Godhra violence in certain parts of certain cities in Gujarat, caste wars in Bihar (that don’t happen any more), etc are all isolated incidents. They all happened in different regions, by different people, at different times, for different reasons, funded by different sources of money, thus making them isolated. And as Kush said, Naxal violence and many other problems in India have nothing to do with religious tolerance, it has to do with poverty, ISI dirty money, Chinese dirty money, ethnicity, political tie-ups and rivalries, mafias, etc. It’s not as simple as “religious intolerance”, which is the case in the US. Here in Texas at least, people are intolerant of “infidel religions” (all holidays are based on the Christian holidays, “moment of silence” every morning at schools, being expected to be part of a church organization by many colleges and society as a whole, “in God we trust”, “one nation under God”, Hindu priest being heckled in the Senate, evangelists trying to convert you, etc).
As for those Americans who ran on that platform…there’s a reason they lost. There’s a reason we’ve never had a pro-segregation president. Because America isn’t racist the same way India isn’t religiously intolerant even though both had their share of violence over the two issues.
The real abomination is that there are prayers in the Senate at all. I’m not American, but aren’t Senators there to pass legislation, and doesn’t having prayers at the beginning symbolic of the lack of separation between church and state? The people are ejected are fools, but I would have cheered someone who stood up and said “I’m secular and a patriot”. But then again, maybe a debate on the Iraq war could use a little shanti.
Also, I always wanted to have a dog named “Zed” but only because I’m Canadian and Americans pronounce the letter “Z” as “Zee”. (Canadians don’t rebel in any big important way…)
Chod do Aanchal in Hindi has a vulgar meaning.
Though I’m sure that’s not what you meant. Or is it?!
it is indeed. however, in my Temperance-like, quixotic quest to improve my immediate community, I still find it unbelievably uncomfortable when old, treasured friends begin to trot out very benign, almost new age-level vague descriptions of hell, in order to prepare me for the moment in which they say that they do believe I’m heading there after drawing my last breath.
Ok.
i’m no expert, but could we please have some sort of substantiation before blaming it on Pakistan and China. For Melamine’s sake, please!
“Unamerican activities in the Senate. For shame.”
Funny, my first two thoughts coming across this news item were “unamerican” and “shameful”.
The US Senate can redeem itself with a strong denunciation of this episode.
Chi! It means “Let go of this aanchal, dude” as per the song from the 1957 movie “Paying Guest.” Chod do aanchal/zamana kya kahega…
But if this the first thing you thought of, I may need to destroy that pitiful excuse of a blog! 🙂
Dirty boy. I thought of this.
Keep it! My own ill-conceived blog name has worn quite well and is now as comfortable as a 10-year old shirt.
Are there any Hindu bloggers on staff at SepiaMutiny?! Would be interesting to get their opinion. I understand that A N N A is upset with the version of Christianity presented by the interlopers. But calling them “Jesus-freaks” seems unnecessarily hostile. Perhaps, one could see the beauty of the pundit’s prayer instead, weaving the words of the Vedas calmly around the interruption. A N N A, there will always be small-minded people who are threatened by other religions. Can’t change that, but on such a landmark event, it would have been nice to get Sepia to actually comment on the pundit’s words, rather than the useless shrieks in the audience.
Nope. Only mozzarella, tomato, and basil pesto on fresh-baked focaccia drizzled with olive oil for me.
Not sure who Melamine is, but I’ll do it for her:
Well the same thing could be said about the moon. Can you prove the moon is a sphere? No. But we know it is. Likewise, with the ISI and Chinese. Since you obviously don’t trust reports made by the world’s largest democracy, there are a number of US, UK and Canadian reports that say the exact same thing about the ISI that Indians have been saying for decades.
As for the Chinese thing, that’s more speculation on my part but there has been irrefutable evidence of Chinese involvement of some sort (no matter how remote) in Kashmir and NE terrorism as some weapons and grenades used by terrorists have turned out to be Chinese. And of course it’s a well known fact that the Chinese previously supported NE terrorists until they realized the NE terrorists ideologically hate China more than India because of what China is doing to Tibet and how much worse the Chinese treat it’s minorities than India, and the fact that the Chinese wanted better relations with India and wanted a more stable Asia.
If it had been named Choli Ke Peechchey on the other hand…
I can’t believe i’m doing this, but I guess an even exchange is too much to ask for. You know, actual link for actual link. Substantiation for substantiation. oh well
Melamine is a lusty lass, composed mostly of nitrogen.
muralimanner, you wanted a link? Here you go.
i’m no expert, but could we please have some sort of substantiation before blaming it on Pakistan and China. For Melamine’s sake, please!
Google = Dawood Ibrahim, Tiger Memom, March bombings that killed ~260 people in March 1993, Charu Mazumdhar, Chinese weapons + Nazalites, ISI and all the Kashmir “freedom” outfits, confessions by some Al Queda members from all over the world about their first field experience in Kashmir, Northeast India claimed by China and also the hotbed for Naxalite movement. Why so?
Hint: Where does Dawood Ibrahim, Tiger Memom live lavishly these days? Who married Javid Miandad son in Dubai? All these Madarassa and Kashmir outfits (now banned by US/ UK/ Interpol) in Pakistan are just for drinking latte at Lahore Starbucks.
Guy, Should I be your teacher? Google or read yourself. Come on.
My youthful disdain for Indian media made me both Hindi-ignorant and only able to comprehend conversational Tamil spoken at a somewhat sedate pace. woe is me.
mm, I was actually responding to Aanchal’s name for her blog.
but not too ignorant not to appreciate my Malaysian brethren who putteth it down in KL and it’s environs
Lay off a bit there, guy. From my limited understanding, this blog focuses on social/political/cultural issues facing desis in America, not expositions on the more esoteric points of world religions. Hence, the “useless shrieks” IS the news. One blog can’t accomplish everything. I say this with total sincerity, but maybe this wonderful site will quench your thirst for Vedic knowledge?
Oh, I’m much more subtle than that! (I love that song by the way…I want a chorus of women singing “Coo coo coo coo coo coo coo coo” at my wedding, for no apparent reason 🙂
Chod do aanchal: It means let go of the folds of the saree (I think). Aanchal is usually used in a maternal sense, I think. Choli ke peeche kya hai: What’s behind your blouse? This got a bunch of repressed politicians in a tizzy.
Awww, thanks for that. Yes, there are, but they were all fishing. As for me, I hope we never get to the point where Hindus blog Hindu stories, Sikhs blog Sikh stories, etc.
Interestingly enough, not one of the dozen tips we received about this news highlighted the pundit’s words; every one of them was pointing out the “useless shrieks”. Huh.
“Anna” has strong “Christian” beliefs that she never stops blabbering about. Surely that explains a lot. In the US, only trailer park trash actually take the “Bible” seriously. For example, the “born-again” imbeciles in Ohio who gave Bush the last election. Funny how “Anna” does the same.
on that note, it’s time for a night of unpleasant Sai dreams.
Hey Aanchal, I think ronmon was referring to the Christian protesters as the shrieks, not the commenters. I think Choli is a fun song, but how about this? It has a great beat and actually consistently delivers on the double (sometimes only single) entendre, although you might have to take my word for it since it’s in Tamil.
Aanchal, sorry, I misread your comment #221. I was the one doing the misunderstanding.
i freakin’ knew it! almost spit out chicken-fried steak from Cracker Barrel when i read that. actually i just washed down some uni, fatty yellow tail, and amaebi with a great bottle of daiginjo. but don’t tell turd blossem, he went ape-shit on wolfie when he found out he dropped $350 on a bottle of bordeaux while dining with pootie-poot.
quite honestly, i’m wishing some old testament style conflagration on that phrase and everyone who uses it so freely. How many people do you know that live in, or have lived in, a trailer?
How about airstreams?
Oh, that’s what I meant – the “useless shrieks” (the hecklers) is the newsworthy angle, hence SM is blogging about that.
BTW that is a fun song! I love the way Tamil sounds when it is sung. Can you give me a snippet of a translation so I can get a sense of its entrende-laden richness?!
This really needs the skills of Tambram but I will give it the old college try:
The first stanza goes:
Hold on to the camel (wtf? – there might be subtler interpretations here) Hang on tightly O one with the round bindi Give up your shame You will find new levels of ecstacy And the morning saree will tell the rest of the story.
Please, won’t someone think of the quotation marks? Their abuse is the most offensive aspect of that attempt at a comment.
A N N A, didn’t mean to suggest that everyone couldn’t blog on this event. Just that much of your blog entry discusses Christ’s nobility (while in the same breath calling people who disagree with your interpretation “Jesus-freaks”). Imagine if this had been a Catholic priest’s invocation — would you really have ignored the priest’s words then and focused instead on the hecklers? The point of view matters, and I did not mean this as any kind of attack.
Also, Aanchal, didn’t know that discussion of “esoteric” religion was off-topic for this blog! Is that true? Some of that stuff is almost as interesting as the social-cultural stuff you mention!
I agree with you in that there are great variances in Christian identity and practice…but in regards to what was shouted out in Senate today, it may have been extremists doing the shouting…but there was something there which I think many Christians across the line believe in.
you can replace ‘christian’ with ‘protestant.’ around 1850 a young catholic boy was beaten in a public school for not reading aloud a king james version of the bible. subsequent to this there were riots across the country fueled by religious disputes. this protest in the senate gallery is nothing compared to what catholics went through in the 19th century.
A N N A, I think they were being used in the “Austin Powers sense”.
Seriously what does this woman have to do to get a little respect and for commenter’s to keep the discussion on topic.
If she says all religions should get equal respect, you flame her, If she talks about Church you flame her and if she talks about her dad whom she loves so much you flame her and if she talks about India, people ask her what passport she holds. What is wrong with all you people?
And you dipshit, read the post before you post.
I think SM should come up with a policy where you ask random questions about the post before people are allowed to comment.
I cannot find the link,but last year I read where the Mormons community in Utah helped build two different Hindu temples as well as as some Mormons worshiping with their Hindu neighbors. I will continue to look for the link later.
Ronmon said:
::
::
Yes.
Not that you’ll believe that. You don’t have to mean it as an attack or clarify that it wasn’t…I take words like yours very seriously.
I don’t blame him.
(a) He wasn’t expecting Wolfie to come back with his hair and immune system intact after sharing a meal in a nice restaurant with an ex-KGB operative. (b) $350 could have prevented fraud of at least 10 voters. Elections are decided on a few 1000 such bottles.
LOL. Damn, I wish was born in the time when they thought Keynes was a prophet. General Theory made economics so happy and shiny. And his eloquence and writing are astounding.
Rahul: at least assure us that your polo shirt isn’t pink and that you don’t pop the collar.
No, I only do that when summering in the Hamptons.
Although, Jana Gana Mana mentions “God of Destiny” (Bhagya vidatha) and, it was written as a tribute to God. If you actually understand the lyrics, it is paying tribute to some sort of higher power. Even the ending “Jaya he Jaya he Jaya he Jaya Jaya Jaya Jay he” is a nod towards how most aarthis finish.
I found the links about the Mormons and Hindus in Utah. http://www.hinduismtoday.com/archives/2003/10-12/64-65_utah.shtml
htto://www.clipfile.org/2002/02/15/542.
oops, how noveau riche. i was hoping for nantucket or chappaquiddick.
I agree. The Protestant persecution of Catholics via the Nativist and other movements was massive. Maybe back then no one ever imagined that Catholics would be later accepted in American society, but that was before a large number of Jews and immigrants of other religions were visible in this country. You fight with “known enemies.” Also, that was a time of mass immigration, and the influx of Catholics was very palpable and detectable. Sure, we have mass immigration now, but much of that is from Latin America.
My point is that although there were massive schisms between Catholics and Protestants, alliances shift in the face of new threats. There were violent debates about papal vs. scriptural Christianity, but it was still under the banner of Christianity. You can argue that the Jewish example is probably more similar to the Hindu experience in that it isn’t under the Christian banner, and just how many inroads they have made in American society. I’m not debating that, and will give you that perhaps Hindus will see similar treatment.
But I’m hesitant about foreseeing Hinduism under the banner of “patriotic” religions in the same sense as Catholicism and Judaism because of the (a) often dealbreaking views on monotheism vs. polytheism, and (b) the racial factor (Hindus being non-white in a majority of cases).
Perhaps more acceptance of Hinduism in the future, but not the same type as Catholics and Jews.
I don’t think it’s off-topic, it’s just not the focus. Focus =/= exclusive. It’s like going to an animal rights blog and seeing a story about a dog being mistreated and wondering why everyone is talking about the mistreatment and not about the dog’s cuteness. That’s more for an animal lover’s blog. And the good thing about SM is that it’s even more expansive and open than that narrow example; sure, let’s talk about what Zed Sahib said. When I was reading what he said, I was in fact curious about why he chose that mantra. Just don’t expect that aspect to be the first thing this blog talks about, you know?
What can I say? It is the immigrant curse. I summer in the Hamptons so my children can dream of Martha’s Vineyard.
Religion and intelligence don’t go together.Period!! I really find it very hard to believe how any sane person who has gone past alteast the 10th grade could buy into any religious mumbo jumbo.
it’s okay; just like some consider hindu prayers in senate to be “abominations,” others might think you “too pagan” to be vineyard material 🙂 in both cases, the loss is only theirs.
In a way, it’s great we can all indulge our idiosyncrasies–I can pursue my fetish for female Israeli soldiers, admire Razib’s blog, and deplore the Senate disruption–you guys are great!
Pagla, I do agree that Jana Gana Mana appeals to higher powers etc. I didn’t bring it up because Tagore himself was arguably quite secular in his beliefs and ideals, and I was addressing what I understood to be namantra’s point about (“one nation under god” vs. “one nation under vishnu”) with the narrowest and closest analogy I could find.
portmanteau, I will continue fighting the good fight. Maybe, one day, John Kerry will also be brave and principled enough to invite me to go windsurfing with him.