302 thoughts on ““But now, all my dreams are broken.””
iFOB(comment #39), way to distract from the issue at hand by ranting against Christian missionaries and why some of us ABDs are worried about discrimination in India. I aactually agree that quite a few missionaries are more interested in conversions and some of the “charity” they do is kind of a bribe. Just watch the digusting 700 Club and how they target India. But you know what – why can’t those Hindu fanatics (BTW, i belong to a hindu family) do the same and give rice, money and education to the poor in SIGNIFICANT AMOUNTS that Chrsitian missionaries become irrelevant? Does the fact that a Christian missionary may exploit the suffering in the video make the suffering any less real? Address the freaking issue. As far as addressing suffering of Hispanics and Blacks in the US, guess what, there are plenty of blogs to do that. I am on MYDD often. Some of the others here probably take part in other US based mainstrem blogs.
You know what is fucked up. Some Christians in India have caste based prejudices. I know a Catholic family here whose dad preferred that his daughter marry a Hindu Kamma( Telugu caste) than a Christian non Kamma because that is the caste their ancestors belonged to. I wonder why that family even bothered converting.
Oh by the way, I became my 5 year old niece’s least favorite uncle on a recent trip to India because I would glare at her every single time she would treat the servants like slaves and act like the biggest spoiled brat in the world. I didn’t care what her mom thought about my behavior towards that lil girl.
but that your statement
only the one abt hindu law. i agree with you mostly otherwise.
With that in mind, should I not bring it up with her? How do you propose I approach the topic?
I’ve found that with family and close friends, there’s little point getting into these kinds of arguments (politics, religion, India, etc.) that in the end, don’t change the world one bit, but may certainly change your relationship with that person. It’s not worth it. My sister and I have agreed to disagree on umpteen number of things rather than get into big fights over them.
Amitabh on June 12, 2007 06:09 PM · Direct link
I’ve found that with family and close friends, there’s little point getting into these kinds of arguments (politics, religion, India, etc.) that in the end, don’t change the world one bit, but may certainly change your relationship with that person. It’s not worth it. My sister and I have agreed to disagree on umpteen number of things rather than get into big fights over them.
Couldn’t agree more. And thanks, Anna, for posting this link on the main page.
Thanks to Shivam Vij for that article and that disturbing video link. My god!!!!
Yeah disturbing.. But how much of it is just propaganda and good editing.. who knows.. Especially the segment that I can understand relating to the Tamil devar landlord talking about rapes looks like cleverly edited to me.. (after the 3.00 minute mark.. the 30-40 second segment) He speaks in the third person and what he says doesn’t gel with translation which says ‘we used to rape a lot’ ..
I’m not saying that Dalit discrimination does not take place.. Ofcourse it is but be watchful of propaganda videos..
This video link has been posted here already and my comments on that blog
I’m not ashamed that I posted it. I saw it on the news tab and thought it deserved exposure. We have an entire corps of individuals who started reading after Siddhartha’s excellent post, way back in October of last year, which is where you commented; this is important enough that it merits viewing again. Several times.
I’m slightly disturbed by your use of the term “propaganda”. Yes, we should critically examine everything and consider motives and things like editing…but I don’t care to be associated with anything even remotely apologist. I asked a Tamil friend (DBD) to watch the video and he didn’t interpret the despicable landlord’s words the way you did at ALL.
And thanks, Anna, for posting this link on the main page.
It was the least I could do. I couldn’t NOT post it, after watching it, if that makes sense. Ponniyin Selvan points out that it’s a repeat, but it was in the comments section of Siddhartha’s post, not the essay itself. I thought it deserved its own post; I also didn’t think any words I could string together would do justice to either what I saw or what I felt, after watching it. Thank you.
Clearly I heard it again now. It’s in the “third person” where the caption says “we used to rape before” he was talking about some other group of persons. Either your “Tamil friend” is part of the propaganda team or he/she had not heard it clear.
Dalit discrimination is as bad as it is and “additional flavouring” brings to question the credibility of the propagandists.
Either your “Tamil friend” is part of the propaganda team or he/she had not heard it clear
Yes. That’s it. They must be propagandists.
ANNA is a well known propagandist. Hell, maybe she is a Dalit herself masquerading as a Christian. In any case, she is a Dalit loving ABCD which makes her especially suspect!
Let me explain..
“Earlier we used to rape a lot” is what is displayed as a caption.
What the landlord says is “munnale karpazhippu panni puduvaanga”.. that means “earlier they use to rape”.
You can ask anyone who knows Tamil to figure this out.
anna,
there is no possible positive connotation for selvan’s deployment of ‘propagandist’ in his description of the video’s producers. They used rudimentary editing, amateurish graphics and very conventional camera angles. Not exactly the work of clever professional liars.
the emotional impact delivered by the film is in no way derived from the producer’s methods–it springs from the subjects’ expressions, their cries of anguish and their unimbellished stories of maltreatment.
Most human beings, although selvan may not number amongst that mediocre crowd, would recognize this.
Most human beings, although selvan may not number amongst that mediocre crowd, would recognize this.
Yes buddy.. nice sentiments there.. I appreciate it.
Since i presume you are a Tamil, what really did the landlord tell. Why don’t you tell the rest of us?.
since you presumably speak English, why don’t you tell all of us what the definition of “propagandist” is and square it with video presented above.
Alrite:
From the dictionary
propaganda
2 : the spreading of ideas, information, or rumor for the purpose of helping or injuring an institution, a cause, or a person
3 : ideas, facts, or allegations spread deliberately to further one’s cause or to damage an opposing cause; also : a public action having such an effec
The caption says one thing and the landlord says another. It nicely adds to the propaganda value and gets a couple of more tears..
A little off the topic here…
Any tamilians surfing this post here ?
How do you say “please touch my hair ” in tamil ?
Thanks
selvan,
this begs the question, “so whom is he talking about?” Could it be that he’s talking about rapes perpetrated on members of his own group by others? Surely not, as he is nearly in stitches at the prospect of such violations. Is he talking about Vogons raping Cylons? Surely not, as this fellow is most certainly conscious of his caste and also of what distinguishes other from him–especially those he considers to be below him in the village cast structure.
what could he possibly be referring to? Hmmmm…
Ponniyin Selvan:
“Let me explain..
“Earlier we used to rape a lot” is what is displayed as a caption.
What the landlord says is “munnale karpazhippu panni puduvaanga”.. that means “earlier they use to rape”.
You can ask anyone who knows Tamil to figure this out. “
–> The literal translation is what Ponniyin Selvan said.
Just before “munnale karpazhippu panni puduvaanga”, he points how he(and his caste) do not eat along with dalits(he refers to “we”). Combining the two, isnt it clear that he is referring to fellow caste members ? Plus isnt there a lady seen standing in the room when he talks ? She kind of withdraws when he starts talking about rape. Do you think he will sit there and essentially say ‘”We used to rape a lot” with that lady present there ?
I do think there was some editing involved but does that completely negate the horrific images or lighten the gravity of discrimination practiced between castes ?
krishnan has it right – like selvan said, the translation was wrong, but the context points to his fellow caste members as a collective group. technically, he says that there used to be a lot of rape before, and now there isn’t, and he uses ‘they’, not ‘we.’ however, the perverted glee with which he recounts the current method of surreptitious rape is more than sickening.
to the Tamil devar landlord talking about rapes looks like cleverly edited to me.. (after the 3.00 minute mark.. the 30-40 second segment) He speaks in the third person and what he says doesn’t gel with translation which says ‘we used to rape a lot’ ..
First of, yes he is talking in third person, but if you go down south a lot of communities do that. Could this be the case? OMG!!! You did not think about it did you?
Secondly, no one here says he was the one who raped people. But the way he deals with the subject, laughing and mocking it… , That is what we are upset about. No? You do not care?
Thirdly, like someone said before, would he have the same expression if his own kid / wife / sister was raped.
Or are you going to come back with “he was paid by missionaries to act” to answer all this?
Look you can always critique someone else’s work. Even if it was a movie with paid actors in it, the fact that you did not pay $7 to get it and that you could not buy a bucket of popcorn in no way makes the subject untrue.
Since i presume you are a Tamil, what really did the landlord tell. Why don’t you tell the rest of us?
I’m a Tamil speaker, and what I took from that segment was that the Thevar in question was referring to the practices of his fellow caste members in a collective sense. The segment starts with him explaining how they (the Thevars) used to not let Dalits into the home, but they have done since 2000, although “we still don’t eat from the same plates”. From the context, I assume that the rape statements too are collective statements about the Thevar community.
What I found particularly galling (regardless of how the statements are characterized) was the almost gleeful manner in which he described the current, more surreptitious manner of rape.
Do you think he will sit there and essentially say ‘”We used to rape a lot” with that lady present there ?
Krishnan, you bring up a very good point. He would not do that when women are present.
Also, he might be a horny male, but he would not be stupid to say something like “I used to…”
however, the perverted glee with which he recounts the current method of surreptitious rape is more than sickening.
What I found particularly galling (regardless of how the statements are characterized) was the almost gleeful manner in which he described the current, more surreptitious manner of rape.
hema, we almost blog-jinxed…
I am the Efing propogandist – what part of TN do they use grammatical form? is it particular to a region, or a group? just curious…
Pappu,
My tamil is comparable to a 3 yr old (may not even be that good..) but I think this is how you would say “touch my hair” : talaimairu toddu
Tamil experts…please correct me if I’m way off!
ak: From what I have seen, others feel free to correct me, it’s more geographic / regional. You will understand what they say, but they do not conform to grammar and cannot be translated correctly.
For example in places around Coimbatore, you will hear people using neenga (aap in Hindi / also used to refer to a group of people), even when they refer to / address a kid. The words normally are reserved for elders.
Similarly people use naanga (technically translates to we) to refer to themselves (when it is just one person).
pappu – en kunthalai thodu? dayavusethu, if you want to add the ‘please.’
talaimairu toddu
Changed for pronunciation’s sake 🙂
Thalay – head
Maiyuru – hair
Thodu- touch
When you make a sentence it becomes
Thalay Maiyurai Thodu.
Efing propogandist,
Even in the south, “munnale karpazhippu panni puduvaanga” means it is in the third person and could never translate to “we used to rape”. I’m aware of different dialects in different regions.
As I said before,
Dalit discrimination is as bad as it is and “additional flavouring” brings to question the credibility of the propagandists. This kind of “flavouring” is completely unnecessary and counter-productive.
en kunthalai thodu?
That sounds like a shampoo ad 🙂
Thalaimudi, please, not mayiru 🙂 The usage of mayiru is coarser than mudi.
I think “thalaimudi” might be better than “thalaimayiru” (as in thalaimudiyai thodu or thodunga, if you want to be more respectful) . In some contexts, “mayiru” can be sort of an insult. 😉
hema, inna innoda modharai? eyyy… sticks tongue out while roll the tip backwards and under on to the lower teeth.
My bad, I was repeating the curse word and I guess it got the better of me 🙂
Yen mannipugal.
“Can somebody edify me on what the difference between Shudras and Dalits is, both in theory and in actual practice?”
The usage in modern newspapers is:
Dalits = Scheduled Castes and Tribes = eligible for highest level of reservations
Shudras = Other backward castes = eligible for reservations, but not to the same level as Dalits
Dwijas = Not eligible for reservations
Brahminical = conservative (as opposed to liberal or progressive)
In news stories of atrocities on Dalits, it usually turns out that Dalits are landless farmers, while Shudras are landowners.
To clarify: Shudras are the lowest caste of four in the caste system. Dalits, previously known as untouchables, are outside the caste system, lower on the totem pole than shudras. In practice, not all shudras are eligible for reservations, or even classified as “backward caste”. Sub-castes within the overall grouping of shudra have been designated as eligible for reservations, based on their historical opression or lack of opportunity, but not all shudra communities meet those criteria. Many shudras were artisans, scribes, or performed other somewhat privileged jobs and have not been historically oppressed compared to other shudra communities, or in more recent times (as in the last 2-300 years)have thrown off their original caste-designated occupations, worked as British civil servants, were landowners etc, and don’t qualify as “backward castes”.
Chennai maanagaram! Representin, yo! 🙂
Yo, Rahul..inna yaa…summa wrong-aa ponenaa, alla wrong-aa poodum!
Are we kaiyru paala-ing?
palaa from palaa pazham…
Anyone?
The only thing better than a threadjack is an unintelligible threadjack 🙂
sorry, i’ve been exposed to too many tamil literary types, of late.
pappu, may we know why you are in need of this phrase? hot date with a tamilian (in which case, you might need some more explicit phrases)?
ak, now you’ve got to the heart of the matter, exactly what i was thinking… en menmaiyaan koonthalai rasikkireergala? somehow doesn’t seem to cut it in the throes of passion.
yammoy, yemma, in the parlance of our times, en area ulla varathei.
interestingly, i just started watching that movie today. very impressed with the rapping in the opening credits, which is all i got through.
Or are you going to come back with “he was paid by missionaries to act” to answer all this?
Paul Divakar, whose father was a Bishop, is co-convener of the Dalit Solidarity Network, under whose aegis the film above was produced.
The IDSN has as a principle aim the enabling of reservations for Dalit Christians in India. From Tehelka, where he was interviewed by Shivam Vij:
Divakar takes a complex view of his religion. “I was born a Christian,†he says, “but I was also born a dalit.†NCDHR supports the demand of dalit Christians to be officially recognised as dalits and thus get the benefit of reservations and protection under laws for SC/STs. Incidentally, he points out, STs do not lose their constitutional status despite conversion.
I did wonder why the film did not touch upon the rampant casteism in other Indian religions, including Christianity and Sikhism (as we have recently discussed in the Dera Such Sauda thread).
I do not blame Dalit Christians for seeking reservation status. Theoretically it would make conversions much easier. Also, despite the protests from “Brahmin Christians” and what have you, Indian Christianity is essentially Dalit: they comprise 70% + of Christians in India.
Prkash Louis recently wrote an article in the Economic and Political Weekly about the sad state of Dalit Christians, and the persistence of discrimination (much of it from fellow upper-caste Christians) despite the adoption of a supposedly emancipatory identity.
Hey all,
If you’re interested in this issue, the Hindu American Foundation (I intern for them) addresses it. Here are some links to some of our press releases regarding instances like the ones highlighted in the video.
So, is there incontrovertible proof that the guy is a paid actor? The scene seemed a little bit set-like, and I absolutely do not doubt at all that this crap goes on, so I am not offering this up as an apologia, but it significantly hurts the credibility of the movie if that scene wasn’t veritas.
Are we kaiyru paala-ing?
Nool palaa-ing maybe.
Are we kaiyru paala-ing?
Nool palaa-ing maybe.
I finally got it! Moolai repair-aayiduchonnu digil aayitein.
somehow doesn’t seem to cut it in the throes of passion.
somehow, i don’t associate the language with intimacy, mainly because i’ve been shielded by relatives young and old from its ‘unsavoury’ aspects. (interestingly, a google search on my name turns up several porn references). contrastingly, i know a lot more unsavoury phrases in hindi. ok, that’s the end of my contribution to this thread-jacking.
HAF – thanks for the links. had anybody found any credence to the idea that IDSN is a propogandist group?
There is no excuse for deliberately mistranslating someone’s words. Even in this case where his glee and horrible attitude do all the talking, and “we” vs. “they” isn’t even the main point. That being said, it isn’t always easy to write sub-titles, and it’s just as likely that the mistranslation wasn’t deliberate. But I’m still glad the Tamil-speakers here pointed this out…we are left to the mercy of the translators when we watch movies like this. The Hindi portions were fairly well-translated, and the Gujarati portions seemed to be also.
The horrible landlord’s attitude reflects not only an indifference to the plight of Dalits, but something else that’s equally awful. The reason he’s so gleeful is that he doesn’t view a woman’s rape as a crime. It’s just a tool to score off a particular social group. Hence his ‘oh those naughty rapists’ attitude.
Unfortunately, this ties into a pervasive disrespect for women. I suspect there are ‘liberal’ Indians who would be merely disgusted that an upper caste man could take the ‘dishonouring’ of a lower caste man so lightly.
Thank you Priya , propogandist and others 🙂
Ak, its something on those lines 😉 oh and i ve already mastered those “explicit phrases”….
forget that story, I’d like to tell the story of what would happen if you and I ever came face to face
Lemme guess what would happen Amitabh 🙂 You would try to do what that other martial punjabi “scythian” has been threatening to do to all non-scythian desis:
“I’ll fuck you people up and teach you to be civilized, even if I need to spill some of your blood.”
Right?
Frankly, I find desis who constantly boast of their height, looks, complexion, resemblance to non-desis, and imaginary foreign origins, to be thoroughly immature and repulsive. Recognize yourself? This nutjob above is just an extreme version of you, Jai Singh et al.
iFOB(comment #39), way to distract from the issue at hand by ranting against Christian missionaries and why some of us ABDs are worried about discrimination in India. I aactually agree that quite a few missionaries are more interested in conversions and some of the “charity” they do is kind of a bribe. Just watch the digusting 700 Club and how they target India. But you know what – why can’t those Hindu fanatics (BTW, i belong to a hindu family) do the same and give rice, money and education to the poor in SIGNIFICANT AMOUNTS that Chrsitian missionaries become irrelevant? Does the fact that a Christian missionary may exploit the suffering in the video make the suffering any less real? Address the freaking issue. As far as addressing suffering of Hispanics and Blacks in the US, guess what, there are plenty of blogs to do that. I am on MYDD often. Some of the others here probably take part in other US based mainstrem blogs.
You know what is fucked up. Some Christians in India have caste based prejudices. I know a Catholic family here whose dad preferred that his daughter marry a Hindu Kamma( Telugu caste) than a Christian non Kamma because that is the caste their ancestors belonged to. I wonder why that family even bothered converting.
Oh by the way, I became my 5 year old niece’s least favorite uncle on a recent trip to India because I would glare at her every single time she would treat the servants like slaves and act like the biggest spoiled brat in the world. I didn’t care what her mom thought about my behavior towards that lil girl.
only the one abt hindu law. i agree with you mostly otherwise.
I’ve found that with family and close friends, there’s little point getting into these kinds of arguments (politics, religion, India, etc.) that in the end, don’t change the world one bit, but may certainly change your relationship with that person. It’s not worth it. My sister and I have agreed to disagree on umpteen number of things rather than get into big fights over them.
Couldn’t agree more. And thanks, Anna, for posting this link on the main page.
Incidentally these are just 11 minutes from an 1.5 hr long documentary produced by the International Dalit Solidarity Network.
This video link has been posted here already and my comments on that blog
link
reproducing the same here..
I’m not ashamed that I posted it. I saw it on the news tab and thought it deserved exposure. We have an entire corps of individuals who started reading after Siddhartha’s excellent post, way back in October of last year, which is where you commented; this is important enough that it merits viewing again. Several times.
I’m slightly disturbed by your use of the term “propaganda”. Yes, we should critically examine everything and consider motives and things like editing…but I don’t care to be associated with anything even remotely apologist. I asked a Tamil friend (DBD) to watch the video and he didn’t interpret the despicable landlord’s words the way you did at ALL.
It was the least I could do. I couldn’t NOT post it, after watching it, if that makes sense. Ponniyin Selvan points out that it’s a repeat, but it was in the comments section of Siddhartha’s post, not the essay itself. I thought it deserved its own post; I also didn’t think any words I could string together would do justice to either what I saw or what I felt, after watching it. Thank you.
Clearly I heard it again now. It’s in the “third person” where the caption says “we used to rape before” he was talking about some other group of persons. Either your “Tamil friend” is part of the propaganda team or he/she had not heard it clear.
Dalit discrimination is as bad as it is and “additional flavouring” brings to question the credibility of the propagandists.
Yes. That’s it. They must be propagandists.
ANNA is a well known propagandist. Hell, maybe she is a Dalit herself masquerading as a Christian. In any case, she is a Dalit loving ABCD which makes her especially suspect!
Let me explain..
“Earlier we used to rape a lot” is what is displayed as a caption. What the landlord says is “munnale karpazhippu panni puduvaanga”.. that means “earlier they use to rape”.
You can ask anyone who knows Tamil to figure this out.
anna,
there is no possible positive connotation for selvan’s deployment of ‘propagandist’ in his description of the video’s producers. They used rudimentary editing, amateurish graphics and very conventional camera angles. Not exactly the work of clever professional liars.
the emotional impact delivered by the film is in no way derived from the producer’s methods–it springs from the subjects’ expressions, their cries of anguish and their unimbellished stories of maltreatment.
Most human beings, although selvan may not number amongst that mediocre crowd, would recognize this.
Yes buddy.. nice sentiments there.. I appreciate it.
Since i presume you are a Tamil, what really did the landlord tell. Why don’t you tell the rest of us?.
since you presumably speak English, why don’t you tell all of us what the definition of “propagandist” is and square it with video presented above.
Alrite:
From the dictionary
The caption says one thing and the landlord says another. It nicely adds to the propaganda value and gets a couple of more tears..
A little off the topic here…
Any tamilians surfing this post here ?
How do you say “please touch my hair ” in tamil ?
Thanks
selvan, this begs the question, “so whom is he talking about?” Could it be that he’s talking about rapes perpetrated on members of his own group by others? Surely not, as he is nearly in stitches at the prospect of such violations. Is he talking about Vogons raping Cylons? Surely not, as this fellow is most certainly conscious of his caste and also of what distinguishes other from him–especially those he considers to be below him in the village cast structure.
what could he possibly be referring to? Hmmmm…
Ponniyin Selvan: “Let me explain..
“Earlier we used to rape a lot” is what is displayed as a caption. What the landlord says is “munnale karpazhippu panni puduvaanga”.. that means “earlier they use to rape”.
You can ask anyone who knows Tamil to figure this out. “
–> The literal translation is what Ponniyin Selvan said. Just before “munnale karpazhippu panni puduvaanga”, he points how he(and his caste) do not eat along with dalits(he refers to “we”). Combining the two, isnt it clear that he is referring to fellow caste members ? Plus isnt there a lady seen standing in the room when he talks ? She kind of withdraws when he starts talking about rape. Do you think he will sit there and essentially say ‘”We used to rape a lot” with that lady present there ?
I do think there was some editing involved but does that completely negate the horrific images or lighten the gravity of discrimination practiced between castes ?
krishnan has it right – like selvan said, the translation was wrong, but the context points to his fellow caste members as a collective group. technically, he says that there used to be a lot of rape before, and now there isn’t, and he uses ‘they’, not ‘we.’ however, the perverted glee with which he recounts the current method of surreptitious rape is more than sickening.
First of, yes he is talking in third person, but if you go down south a lot of communities do that. Could this be the case? OMG!!! You did not think about it did you?
Secondly, no one here says he was the one who raped people. But the way he deals with the subject, laughing and mocking it… , That is what we are upset about. No? You do not care?
Thirdly, like someone said before, would he have the same expression if his own kid / wife / sister was raped.
Or are you going to come back with “he was paid by missionaries to act” to answer all this?
Look you can always critique someone else’s work. Even if it was a movie with paid actors in it, the fact that you did not pay $7 to get it and that you could not buy a bucket of popcorn in no way makes the subject untrue.
Since i presume you are a Tamil, what really did the landlord tell. Why don’t you tell the rest of us?
I’m a Tamil speaker, and what I took from that segment was that the Thevar in question was referring to the practices of his fellow caste members in a collective sense. The segment starts with him explaining how they (the Thevars) used to not let Dalits into the home, but they have done since 2000, although “we still don’t eat from the same plates”. From the context, I assume that the rape statements too are collective statements about the Thevar community.
What I found particularly galling (regardless of how the statements are characterized) was the almost gleeful manner in which he described the current, more surreptitious manner of rape.
Krishnan, you bring up a very good point. He would not do that when women are present.
Also, he might be a horny male, but he would not be stupid to say something like “I used to…”
hema, we almost blog-jinxed…
I am the Efing propogandist – what part of TN do they use grammatical form? is it particular to a region, or a group? just curious…
Pappu,
My tamil is comparable to a 3 yr old (may not even be that good..) but I think this is how you would say “touch my hair” : talaimairu toddu
Tamil experts…please correct me if I’m way off!
ak: From what I have seen, others feel free to correct me, it’s more geographic / regional. You will understand what they say, but they do not conform to grammar and cannot be translated correctly.
For example in places around Coimbatore, you will hear people using neenga (aap in Hindi / also used to refer to a group of people), even when they refer to / address a kid. The words normally are reserved for elders.
Similarly people use naanga (technically translates to we) to refer to themselves (when it is just one person).
pappu – en kunthalai thodu? dayavusethu, if you want to add the ‘please.’
Changed for pronunciation’s sake 🙂
Thalay – head Maiyuru – hair Thodu- touch
When you make a sentence it becomes
Thalay Maiyurai Thodu.
Efing propogandist,
Even in the south, “munnale karpazhippu panni puduvaanga” means it is in the third person and could never translate to “we used to rape”. I’m aware of different dialects in different regions.
As I said before,
Dalit discrimination is as bad as it is and “additional flavouring” brings to question the credibility of the propagandists. This kind of “flavouring” is completely unnecessary and counter-productive.
That sounds like a shampoo ad 🙂
Thalaimudi, please, not mayiru 🙂 The usage of mayiru is coarser than mudi.
I think “thalaimudi” might be better than “thalaimayiru” (as in thalaimudiyai thodu or thodunga, if you want to be more respectful) . In some contexts, “mayiru” can be sort of an insult. 😉
hema, inna innoda modharai? eyyy… sticks tongue out while roll the tip backwards and under on to the lower teeth.
My bad, I was repeating the curse word and I guess it got the better of me 🙂
Yen mannipugal.
To clarify: Shudras are the lowest caste of four in the caste system. Dalits, previously known as untouchables, are outside the caste system, lower on the totem pole than shudras. In practice, not all shudras are eligible for reservations, or even classified as “backward caste”. Sub-castes within the overall grouping of shudra have been designated as eligible for reservations, based on their historical opression or lack of opportunity, but not all shudra communities meet those criteria. Many shudras were artisans, scribes, or performed other somewhat privileged jobs and have not been historically oppressed compared to other shudra communities, or in more recent times (as in the last 2-300 years)have thrown off their original caste-designated occupations, worked as British civil servants, were landowners etc, and don’t qualify as “backward castes”.
Chennai maanagaram! Representin, yo! 🙂
Yo, Rahul..inna yaa…summa wrong-aa ponenaa, alla wrong-aa poodum!
Are we kaiyru paala-ing?
palaa from palaa pazham…
Anyone?
The only thing better than a threadjack is an unintelligible threadjack 🙂
Dey, propugandistu, mabbula irukkiya? ennamo volararai?
yammoy, yemma, in the parlance of our times, en area ulla varathei.
Let’s begin the pettai rap!
sorry, i’ve been exposed to too many tamil literary types, of late.
pappu, may we know why you are in need of this phrase? hot date with a tamilian (in which case, you might need some more explicit phrases)?
ak, now you’ve got to the heart of the matter, exactly what i was thinking… en menmaiyaan koonthalai rasikkireergala? somehow doesn’t seem to cut it in the throes of passion.
interestingly, i just started watching that movie today. very impressed with the rapping in the opening credits, which is all i got through.
Or are you going to come back with “he was paid by missionaries to act” to answer all this?
Paul Divakar, whose father was a Bishop, is co-convener of the Dalit Solidarity Network, under whose aegis the film above was produced.
The IDSN has as a principle aim the enabling of reservations for Dalit Christians in India. From Tehelka, where he was interviewed by Shivam Vij:
Divakar takes a complex view of his religion. “I was born a Christian,†he says, “but I was also born a dalit.†NCDHR supports the demand of dalit Christians to be officially recognised as dalits and thus get the benefit of reservations and protection under laws for SC/STs. Incidentally, he points out, STs do not lose their constitutional status despite conversion.
I did wonder why the film did not touch upon the rampant casteism in other Indian religions, including Christianity and Sikhism (as we have recently discussed in the Dera Such Sauda thread).
I do not blame Dalit Christians for seeking reservation status. Theoretically it would make conversions much easier. Also, despite the protests from “Brahmin Christians” and what have you, Indian Christianity is essentially Dalit: they comprise 70% + of Christians in India.
Prkash Louis recently wrote an article in the Economic and Political Weekly about the sad state of Dalit Christians, and the persistence of discrimination (much of it from fellow upper-caste Christians) despite the adoption of a supposedly emancipatory identity.
Hey all, If you’re interested in this issue, the Hindu American Foundation (I intern for them) addresses it. Here are some links to some of our press releases regarding instances like the ones highlighted in the video.
Hindu American Foundation Denounces Temple Entry Ban on Harijans (Dalits) in Orissa http://www.hinduamericanfoundation.org/media_press_release_jagannath_harijan.htm
Hindu American Foundation Congratulates Hindu Seer for B.R. Ambedkar Award http://www.hinduamericanfoundation.org/media_press_release_ambedkar_award.htm
American Hindus Applaud Decision of Dalits in India to Build Own Temple http://www.hinduamericanfoundation.org/media_press_release_dalit_temple.htm
Hindu American Foundation Condemns Orissa Temple’s Decision To Bar Entry To Scheduled Caste (Dalit) Hindus http://www.hinduamericanfoundation.org/media_press_release_dalit_templeentry.htm
Hindu Temple Entry Practices Need Reform—But Government Must Stay Out http://hafsite.org/media_press_release_guruvayoor.htm
Hindu American Foundation Appreciates Congressional Hearing On Dalit Rights; Concerned By Biases http://www.hinduamericanfoundation.org/media_press_release_dalit_hearing.htm
So, is there incontrovertible proof that the guy is a paid actor? The scene seemed a little bit set-like, and I absolutely do not doubt at all that this crap goes on, so I am not offering this up as an apologia, but it significantly hurts the credibility of the movie if that scene wasn’t veritas.
Are we kaiyru paala-ing?
Nool palaa-ing maybe.
I finally got it! Moolai repair-aayiduchonnu digil aayitein.
somehow, i don’t associate the language with intimacy, mainly because i’ve been shielded by relatives young and old from its ‘unsavoury’ aspects. (interestingly, a google search on my name turns up several porn references). contrastingly, i know a lot more unsavoury phrases in hindi. ok, that’s the end of my contribution to this thread-jacking.
HAF – thanks for the links. had anybody found any credence to the idea that IDSN is a propogandist group?
There is no excuse for deliberately mistranslating someone’s words. Even in this case where his glee and horrible attitude do all the talking, and “we” vs. “they” isn’t even the main point. That being said, it isn’t always easy to write sub-titles, and it’s just as likely that the mistranslation wasn’t deliberate. But I’m still glad the Tamil-speakers here pointed this out…we are left to the mercy of the translators when we watch movies like this. The Hindi portions were fairly well-translated, and the Gujarati portions seemed to be also.
The horrible landlord’s attitude reflects not only an indifference to the plight of Dalits, but something else that’s equally awful. The reason he’s so gleeful is that he doesn’t view a woman’s rape as a crime. It’s just a tool to score off a particular social group. Hence his ‘oh those naughty rapists’ attitude.
Unfortunately, this ties into a pervasive disrespect for women. I suspect there are ‘liberal’ Indians who would be merely disgusted that an upper caste man could take the ‘dishonouring’ of a lower caste man so lightly.
Thank you Priya , propogandist and others 🙂
Ak, its something on those lines 😉 oh and i ve already mastered those “explicit phrases”….
Lemme guess what would happen Amitabh 🙂 You would try to do what that other martial punjabi “scythian” has been threatening to do to all non-scythian desis:
http://www.sepiamutiny.com/sepia/archives/004496.html#comment143232
“I’ll fuck you people up and teach you to be civilized, even if I need to spill some of your blood.”
Right?
Frankly, I find desis who constantly boast of their height, looks, complexion, resemblance to non-desis, and imaginary foreign origins, to be thoroughly immature and repulsive. Recognize yourself? This nutjob above is just an extreme version of you, Jai Singh et al.