Pream Anandarajah is a Canadian born Tamil teenager whose uninsured Scarborough home was recently firebombed, sending his mother Jeyaluckshmi to the burn unit at the hospital [via UB]. And yes, this was an ethnic attack, but not in the way you might think. His attackers weren’t white, they were Sri Lankan Tamils, but FOBs recent immigrants instead of Canadian born. Is FOB as bad a word as n–er?
That’s right — there’s intragroup gang violence between CBD and recent immigrant Sri Lankan Hindu Tamils, serious violence:
Hours before the firebombing, a friend of Anandarajah’s was stabbed … He rattles off the names of gangs that he says recently arrived Sri Lankan youth have formed: EST (East Side Thugs); BNS; BNS Juniors; Tux Boys (Tuxedo Park); Tiger Boys; Gilders (Gilders Street). [Link]
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The house is now largely destroyed |
The firebombing was part of an escalating series of retaliatory attacks, including one where Anandarajah was jumped by 12 students in the high school parking lot and knifed:
Touching his neck he says, “I don’t know how I got this scar. It happened after I was knocked out. They beat me up real bad. My mom couldn’t even recognize my face.” [Link]
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p>One major beef between the groups is the use of the word FOB:
Frequently tossed around in the escalating feud between the groups is a loaded word, used to bully, label and shame. The mostly Tamil Sri Lankan youth around Scarborough who get called FOBs say the word is used as a weapon against them.
“It’s like calling a black man, n—–,” says a Grade 10 student. [Link]
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p>Apparently, that name calling also played a role in the firebombing:
Anandarajah says it was older youths who were responsible for the attack on his house, most of whom either dropped out or have been expelled. “I understand why they’re angry, calling them FOBs. But they took it too far with this…” [Link]
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p>The whole thing seems to be about being “square”. Recent immigrants say they get harassed for not fitting in:
… [Recent immigrants] say the tension begins in high school. They get harassed for playing cricket, having unfashionable hairdos, wearing tight-fitting shirts, too high pants and speaking Tamil. [Link]
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p>Their Canadian born brethren seem to agree. Recent immigrants are just uncool:
“They can’t speak English, they have these weird haircuts,” says Chris, a Grade 12 student at nearby L’Amoreaux Collegiate. “The way they walk and they dress bad. It gives Sri Lankans a bad name, it’s embarrassing.”
One of them blurts out that they’re “fresh off the banana boat, they’re all FOBs, Tiger Boys, and they always will be…” The differences seem minor. Unless you’re in high school. “It’s stupid,” Anandarajah says. “But when we’re playing soccer, why do they have to come over and play cricket? We don’t play cricket here…” [Link]
So what say you? Is FOB a highly offensive term? What term would you prefer? NRI is both exclusionary (doesn’t apply here), and imprecise (to the Indian government I’m both an NRI and an ABD). Is there a different term that works better?
Would you start a fight if you got called a “FOB” ?
I blame hip hop
@38. Jimbo, since I live in the US, I haven’t exactly heard about specialized police unit’s in other countries. So, no, I’m not kidding. Although not surprised either.
I blame hip hop
Are you joking?
I blame cricket.
pounds head against wall OH MY GOD.
Please go read Can’t Stop, Won’t Stop: The History of the Hip Hop Generation by Jeff Chang, before making generalizations.
Also, I think the reasons desis get into gangs is the same reason EVERYONE ELSE gets involved in gangs. Jeez louise folks, as if this were something “new.”
Have you changed your name to Thomas yet? How’s your nephew doing?
I’m sorry to upset some people with my comment about hip hop. But why do so immigrant gangs in western countries adopt the hip-hop culture.
Because it’s the dominant musical culture right now, and they want to fit in. Believe it or not, once upon a time people blamed swing music and zoot suits for a similar reason
Some amazingly fantastic “clueless” comments (pun intended).
HMF why do you live in the United States?
Yellow card, personal foul. There’s no reason to make this personal. Please keep it on the level of ideas, disagree with positions rather than people.
I think its a dominant part of youth culture today…
Compare it to say the 1950s rock and roll look of James Dean in “Rebel w/o a Cause” —
When you saw pics of gangs back then, that greasy hair, tight white shirt look represented rebellion/cool/not mainstream and therefore not like parents.
Hip Hop in popular culture, to me, has that same rebel/cool symbolism now to the majority of youth.
I didn’t know the ref was on the take
Free T-shirts.
The reason I brought up hip-hop culture is due to what I see in Vancouver. Most of the 100 young punjabi men who died in the last decade thought that they were the next Tupac or Snoop Dogg. But most of these kids came from middle or upper class families.
It just they take the gangster culture to extreme.
Red Snapper #23: Excellent points, much props to you!
As far as Canada vs US and ‘who lets in who’: Both countries have ‘human capital’ and ‘social capital’ based immigration policies – both let in refugees fleeing war, famine, civil war, natural catastrophes – and both also let in top-flight scientists, doctors, professors and engineers. Canada also has a ‘points-system’ immigration policy which permanently lets in skilled professionals with some experience – even if they are not ‘absolutely top flight’. The latest Immigration Bill before Congress is considering a similar system for the US.
Both Canada and the US also have ‘highly skilled guest worker’ programs – H-1B in the US, ‘work permit’ in Canada. In both countries, immigrants and refugees have problems in labor-force integration, credential and experience recognition, and a variety of other issues impacting their ability to live successful, happy, prosperous lives.
Canada may have a ‘de jure’ multiculturalism and bilingualism policy, but the US has one too – only it’s de facto. Both countries have stong nativist streaks, and non-white immigrants to both encounter considerable prejudice, often persisting into the second generation and beyond. However, the much larger US population, and the more significant minority (non-white) representation within it (almost 30%) is a difference – in Canada, ‘visible minorities’ make up less than half that fraction (about 13%) and they are very highly concentrated in Toronto and Vancouver.
The gang problems with the Toronto Tamils and the Vancouver Sikhs, although serious and having their own particularities – arise largely for the generic reasons that Red outlined so well in #23. The US also has youth gang problems, and depending on the media’s current obesession, it is ‘Hispanic gangs’ in LA, ‘Hmong gangs’ in Minn./St Paul, ‘Chinese gangs’ in San Fran, or ‘Jamaican gangs’ in NYC, and ‘black gangs’ everywhere! And of course, there are some ‘desi gangs’ in the US too; one can only hope it does not become more serious and start getting mainstream press.
Ennis: Thanks! I figured this is probably a “natural” consequence of immigration dynamics, but it’s pretty shocking to see it play out with this kind of violence. Firebombs???
That video that someone posted showing tamil gangs is not real. Watch it closely, the details don’t make any sense. When the police bust them all they find is machetes — no guns or drugs. And if a fight broke out at a restaurant the manager will call the police, also no fish tail is like barbed wire. I think the makers of the video are trying to be funny, perhaps even making fun of north indians ?
There are no tamil gangs in the US, probably none in england and probably none in India which is another reason why tamil community is so successfull..
as did those canadian kids…
Some of my schoolmates are bhais. Their parents lavished thappads on their tapori selves. Last time I checked, they were bumping Kishore Kumar. The world is complicated.
From personal experience, I find that my cousins (ABDs) use the term “FOB” in a derogatory sense when speaking to me (I moved here about 5 years ago). They make sweeping negative statements about people from India which begin with “You FOBs…” I do find it hurtful so I have simply made sure that I meet them only when family obligations compel me to do so. They are entitled to their opinions and prejudices but then I am entitled to staying away from them!
WTF!??
@Rabia #48 – ” I wonder if perhaps the anti-FOB animosity stems from fear that the so-called FOBs will accentuate the otherness of desis in general in the eyes of non-desis and undermine the Canadian/American-born’s attempts to fit in? “
Well said. I think ABD/CBDs fear that immigrants will create negative stereotypes of their own race, and in the process take them down as well. If 4 out of 5 desi-looking people are actually immigrants, rather than ‘Americans whose parents were immigrants’, people tend to assume that the 5th one is immigrant as well… and might end up asking questions like ‘where are you from?’, which on SM has been widely criticized.
I think we all need to do better jobs – IBDs need to try to fit in better … and ABD/CBDs should hate on IBDs a lot less .. a good way to start would be to stop referring to us as the word in dispute, ‘FOB’. SM has the readership to make a new term and enforce it on the posts … ‘DBD’ sounds fair enough.
Why? Why conform to the norm?
The United States is 30% non-white and South Asians make up 0.8% of the population The United Kingdom is 9% non-white and South Asians make up 4% of the population Canada is 13% non-white and South Asians make up 4% of the population.
In Canada 30% of non-whites are South Asians and the United Kingdom 45% of non-whites are South Asians. But in the United States only 2.5% of non-whites are South Asians.
I was hoping recent immigrants could reclaim the word and make it a badge of pride. They could start by saying “Whassup, my FOB?” or “FOBby please”
No our desis are not all blue collar rabid gangstas. I think you’ll find that most desis in Canuckistan are as highbrow as you. Almost all of my desi friends, growing up, were the children of professionals. The BC Attorney General is a desi (sikh), we’ve had desi cabinet ministers, desi MPs, and desi news anchors (you don’t seem to have had anything comparable). Trust a bunch of Yankees to jump all over us at the first opportunity.
Bet you’re going to tell me to go back home now.
I think you’ll find that reality trumps blind belief. The world does not manifest itself into your worldview just because you believe it is so.
Clueless, I’m sorry to be harsh, I just get RILED when folks chalk things up to “hip hop.” Hip hop has such a huge populist and political background, to distill it to drugs, hoes, gangstas and glocks totally ignores its role in cultural resistance (and it ignores all the positive work hip hop artists are doing to address issues of political voice, gang violence, poverty, etc.). I’m not saying it’s perfect, I’m just saying that blaming hip hop does not address the root causes of youth gangs or gang culture.
I’m with chachaji — there are gangs of all “flavors” and backgrounds. I mean, here in CA you have nortenos vs. surenos, Bloods vs. Crips, 125th-115th vs. 114th-100th Street — it is ALL stupid.
The solution is simple, We know how police in the US handle gangs. In order to defeat this gang culture, Gang members need to be treated harshly. If an incident pops out, the cops have to swarm all over the gang and throw them in jail, none of this cultural assimilation crap.
If a country takes you or your parents as a refugee, you have an obligation to that country. As an immigrant you have to be grateful and pay them back in kind. Immigrant gang members that disregard the rules need to be jailed, once thats done they should be kicked out the country.
Does it seem like that the desi gang problem is a much bigger problem in Canada and England then it is in the United States.
Yeah. And I blame hockey. 😉
This is exactly my point. The thinking is flawed, because in the minds most of the “takers” we’re already “down as well” anyway. I went to a school in Indiana, and believe me, having a western accent, and knowing what a McFlurry was didn’t give me any kind of free pass. Most were surprised that I knew English, and this is not a joke.
That’s why I think the entire division is silly, however I won’t deny that some people regard it seriously enough to become violent, it just baffles me why.
By ‘fit in better’, I mean we IBDs should make more friends beyond our desi circles … There is a lot to learn from American society and the freedom that comes with it. Because there are so many desis like us, we tend to end up with desi company all the time … In our own separate ‘bubbles’ if you may call it. We end up continuing our prejudices (like caste) though we are in a country which is as free as America.
Well I think the Desis in Canada are a bit more on the ass kicking side than the ones in the states,I spent time in Vancouver and every bad news report about crime and fighting always has a Desi in it. Just like they do with blacks in America I guess.
“It gives Sri Lankans a bad name, it’s embarrassing”
You know what gives Sri Lankans a bad name? Stories like this. It makes us non-Tamil Sri Lankans embarassed. It’s Tamil this Tamil that, but when it’s bad publicity these folks want it under the “Sri Lankan” label. Moors, Sinhalese, Malays and Burghers are embarassed at the bad name Tamil criminal elements are giving to Sri Lankans.
Camille when I was talking about hip-hop I was not talking about politcal hip-hop. What I meant to say was part of it that is the gangster culture.
For example here in Vancouver only about 20 of the 100 murder of the punjabi young men by other punjabi have been solved by the police. And the reason for that is that people don’t want to talk to police cause they will then be called a “snitch”, which they get from the gangster part of hip-hop.
Honestly, I think you’re far more concerned with class than I am. It’s nice that desis have been successful in Canada, but I don’t personally associate the words “blue collar” with “rabid gangstas”, nor do I feel that we’re particularly high-brow around here.
This isn’t about the north-south divide, I would have blogged the story if it had happened in the USA as well. I’ve never heard of tensions between locally born and recent immigrants reaching such a pitch that somebody would firebomb a house with various innocent people in it, including young children (who barely got out).
And you’re welcome to stay and disagree as much as you want. I’m sure I’m wrong on many things.
Moors, Sinhalese, Malays and Burghers are embarassed at the bad name Tamil criminal elements are giving to Sri Lankans.
Fair enough. I’m sure non-Sri Lankan Tamils feel the same way…as in non-Sri Lankan Tamils are embarassed at the bad name Tamil criminal elements are giving to Tamils.
Because that’s where the money is? Previous generations of settlers did not head west so they could cuddle with the Comanches and the Sioux…
Kesh, why don’t we raid “ungrateful” people’s houses in the middle of the night, put them all in prison camps, deny them access to attorneys, try to deport their asses and then hold them indefinitely when their countries of origin don’t take them back? OH WAIT, WE ALREADY DO THAT.
No need for the brown on brown hate, Shafraz.
Man, desis got issues. This makes my head hurt.
Clueless, they get this from the gangster part of being a gangster. There were gangs before there was hip hop, and these “principles” (e.g. the no snitch rule) existed then (hello, mafia? Irish gangs in Boston?). These are also hugely prison-influenced as well. I understand where you’re coming from, I’m just saying that focusing on “hip hop” misses the point entirely. It’s not even missing the forest for the trees. It’s like trying to understand the ocean by looking at a grain of sand floating in the water.
Randomizer, a lot do actually. And those who don’t it’s their choice. If they are more comfortable and happier in a desi setting, do they really need to? Your point of caste is well taken but there are plenty of desis out there who don’t care about the stereotype prejudices like caste and one does not really need to leave the brown gang to shed these prejudices.
Well there are basic differences in thinking when you take an average Joe ABD and an average Jai DBD. The awareness of the difference and thus the division is fine – it even helps in the interaction since expectations of conformity by the two groups are reduced. It’s the big deal that is made out of the difference thats quite silly.
In my opinion, any word which identifies a class of people, when used in a derogatory sense is always offensive, whether its FOB or ABCD or Indian or American or Sri Lankan or Tamilian or Gulti or Mallu and so on .. so I don’t think FOB by itself is derogatory at all, but its worth fighting for anyway when you are being attacked.
Gulti Girl, I find the usage of C to be quite witty and cute, not derogatory, its not supposed to be taken literally. I think its just like how you find the word FOB to be funny
. From my past experiences with ABDs and IBDs alike, the ABCD word has always brought a smile rather than a frown.
who in turn got it from Mafiosi aka Cosa Nostra, now is Sicilian organized crime to blame?
biryani, how is calling someone “confused” “witty and cute”? I fail to see.
Similarly, I think calling someone “fresh off the boat” is INHERENTLY xenophobic. Doesn’t matter if it doesn’t offend the person, the roots/history of the term are offensive. If a friend called me “macaca,” even in jest, I would find it offensive (not to reopen the why folks use “macaca on SM” convo, just saying). What, should we “reclaim” our supposed confusion?
I’m with JOAT, a desi is a desi is a desi.
I like that point, I agree totally. Professionals in India can live just as comfortably as they can here — the main reason they come here is so they can make more money and possibly get a better job than they would if they had stayed in India..
We have a ton of South Asian and East Asian immigrants here, and we all (American born or recently emigrated) use the term “FOB” or “fobby” lightly. I never really found it insulting; in fact, a lot of the people I know call themselves fobs are a joke. I guess if a white person or even AB desi or Asian used for the sole purpose of insulting someone, it would be hurtful, but eh, that might just be my circle of friends.
One of the explanations often offered for the formation of gangs, is that they fulfill certain roles which are otherwise lacking in people’s lives…family, identity, culture, roots, etc. Gangs can provide a sense of belonging. Often they’re associated with inner-city areas with many endemic social problems…single mothers, absent dads, drugs, crime, poor schools, etc. Almost like a package. What surprises me about some of these Canadian desi gangs, is that these kids are coming from middle-class lifestyles, live in reasonably nice suburbs, with not only both parents but often a whole host of other close relatives in the area, good schools, a strong inherited cultural/religious identity, etc…but still fall prey to gangs. One reason I think is drug money…the other is the bravado and sense of being macho that comes from it. And it is true that their Punjabi and Tamil parents simply do not understand them or have much time for them, what with working so hard all the time. But somewhere here, there is failure on a collosal scale taking place.
Watch out for my reality TV show, Extreme Makeover: FOB edition. In this series, FOBs from different parts of the world will be transformed into Americans with accent training, fashion advice, etiquette classes, tutorials on American sports like baseball and NASCAR, and, yes, even plastic surgery to cure them of their ethnic features. Teeth and hair straightening included.
because I see the irony in it.
really?? what roots/history are you talking about? We are not discussing about something as significant as the N word, are we?
Like black people calling one another “n****”?
I’m not trying to be the PC police, but seriously, I think we should all at least REFLECT on what we’re saying before we say it.