A tip about this photograph was posted on our News tab a few hours ago by “namantra” under the title Dehli ad on Metro. It was their description of the link which interested me:
The same country that often frowns down upon public displays of affection has billboards that openly use curse words.
I must say, I was slightly surprised to see one of my favorite blue words gettin’ dropped so blatantly, but I know nothing about advertising in the Motherland. Does this ad signal a coarsening of Indian culture? Or did it not raise the threaded eyebrows of those of you who are familiar with such things? And are we comparing jack fruit with ambarellas; does one have nothing to do with the other?
gotta love it–this is from the same country that gave us a movie named “Hitler” (Mohan Lal in all his glory)–what do you expect? Some things never change–I love it!
It could mean take one bullshit daily, but I think it’s trying to sell a newspaper in times when rubbished (trashed in American) has been downgraded to mean nothing more than shelved or otherwise disposed of. Still, nothing beats a shikara called Dancing Girl With Full Spring Seats.
Good Night.
My father, who used bullshit in front of us, occasionally, when we were kids always joked it was OK because bullshit is used to make gobar gas.
When did “Bullshit” become a cuss word? It does not seem to have any sexual connotation! I might have it wrong, it was an oft heard, routinely used term used even by my school teachers. Looks like somethings have definitely been lost in translation. Backwas..oye :D!
for reasons i will never fully understand my entire family in india [everyone on both sides of my family lives there except for my dad, mom, and brother], my uncles, aunts, and cousins have no problem saying bullshit, shit, f*&k, crap, asshole, etc. in front of my nani and dadi.
could someone explain how its better to use a swear word in front of my english speaking grandmothers than to hold my boyfriend’s hand in front of them?
Perhaps the American born “South Asians” raised in a typical 3Bdroom 2 bath suburb home by a Camry / Accord driving parents do not realise that roads of India are full of cows / bulls and thus “bullshit”? And that is what ad is referring to?
Looks like our AB South Asians have not walked on the roads of India during early year summer vacation trip to “motherland” and got their chappal / shoe immersed in a piping hot cow dung / bull shit?
My relatives who are quite “G rated” use the term as a clinical description of, well, bullshit. It’s not considered a bad word in India, many of us even water it down to apply to courtyard floors etc. The PDA restrictions in India are stupid but you probably want to look for something else to highlight it
Advertising professionals in Indian cities tend to be young, urban, and rebellious (or why would they choose advertising over engineering?). Unless the product in question is specifically geared towards an older age-group, it is not uncommon to come across MTV-ish ads.
What’s with the gross generalization? Some nuts decided to burn effigies and suddenly everyone in India is an effigy-burning maniac? Come on. Every country has its share of loonies (judges included, look up Scalia) a good number of whom are employed as editors in MSM. The loonies feed of each other, creating and reporting news. I don’t think a rational person should look at this as a representation of society as a whole. I think it is unfair to generalize Indians as prudes.
I think it’s a fair enough generalization. What’s unfair is to say that the PDA issue and this billboard are at logical odds with each other (no offence, Anna). Things are changing way too rapidly in India… the generation gaps are so large, we may as well be ABDs. In other words, the culture — in the big cities, at least — is slightly unstable and confused at the moment.
I think that’s a fair statement. It’s also not uncommon to come across ads of condoms on television with much more crude stuff (think Kama Sutra, Fiesta, etc; not Nirodh). 🙂
Nice points. However, do you think it fair to paint all sections of Indian society with the same brush? I am sorry if I am broadening the question here, but I just came off reading a post on another blog about the whole Shilpa Shetty-Richard Gere thing and was a little annoyed with the coverage by MSM. One look at all the decadence that Indian cinema markets, should be some indication that a significant part of society isn’t made of prudes. Either that or we are bunch of hypocrites. I don’t think that’s the case though. Parents in general have always been uncomfortable broaching the subject of sex, but I doubt most of them would be surprised if they found us patronising the above mentioned “language” or behavior.
My opinion may be colored by my background. I traveled throughout my childhood and have seen different sides of the country. I have seen my share of prudes but I have found people in general are pretty open-minded. I don’t think we should buy the picture that MSM throws at us.
Again, my point is this: I disagree with the characterization of the country as a whole as an entity that “frowns upon public displays of affection”. There are sections that would and there are sections that don’t. And there are sections who don’t give a $%#@. All I am saying is we need to acknowledge that. 🙂
11: Yeah, I remember being scandalized by the Durex ads on TV at 5 pm when I was 10. Worse when my 4-year old brother asked me what condoms were.
12: No, I’m not speaking for all of Indian society… this is only from my experience. I also may have a slightly different view of the cussing issue, because my parents are relatively more tolerant to talking about sex than to swearing, which they absolutely prohibit.
Yes, but I would think that overwhelmingly, the former are the older generations, and the latter the young. I agree with you that the whole country can’t be assigned a single attribute — however, I think that if we had this discussion 30 years ago, the generalization would be pretty valid.
Same here. One even explained in detail that bullshit isn’t a curse word. lol
From observation (or from partaking in conversations) in India, I believe ‘bullshit’ is not considered a cuss-word. It is commonly used by urban, comfortable-with-english janta even in quite polite conversation without extra affectation or drama. This was recently reinforced on me when a co-worker who’s visiting our workplace from the India office used the word completely unaware that in the US its not preferred in formal work situations. I think the other desensitizing factor is that bullshit is a physical object quite commonly evident in the desi environment and its usage seems intended to highlight the animal excretion equivalence to the object in question.
In the same vein, ‘shit’ is another term that seems more serious/potent in the US in formal situations than in India. People who otherwise are being careful not to utter other umbrages, offer up ‘shit’ like its regular exclamation. In contrast, in the US people go for bite-my-tongue ‘shoot’ instead under etiquette-worthy circumstances.
“Again, my point is this: I disagree with the characterization of the country as a whole as an entity that “frowns upon public displays of affection”. There are sections that would and there are sections that don’t. And there are sections who don’t give a $%#@. All I am saying is we need to acknowledge that. 🙂 “
Couldn’t agree more with this. I for one find various SM bloggers’ attitudes towards India more simplifying and patronizing than those of most non-South Asians I have come across. Wasn’t it here that Amardeep suggested that India should take the informed assistance of ABDs when it comes to choosing what movies to nominate for the Oscar foreign movie award?
I still have tears streaming down my face. When my American-born kids go to India they love saying that word and at my raised eyebrows they go, but Ammmaaa, Granpa said that and there TRULY is a bull and when he goes kakaa it is called…(drumroll please) BULLSHEET(that is how they pronounce it get away from the proverbial mouth washing I would have given them in Penn State)! I shall most certainly show them this post today.
I ddin’t realise BS was a curse word till I moved to USA. Everyone I knew used it generously. My family was more tolerant to the words BS or S* than to F* (which, I think, is because the f-word has an equivalent cuss word in almost all regional languages and is banned at home).
Well, that’s the point. The “shit” part of “bullshit” is a bona-fide profanity with a long history as such in the English language. Americans, or so-called ABCDs, don’t object to “bullshit” because of their dainty sensibilities regarding cowdung (I mean, come on people). It’s just the particular nature of the specific word “shit.” And lest anyone then start speculating on the estrangement of Americans from their poop and how that is a telling symptom of their lack of understanding of the reality of life for most of the world today, I hasten to add that we have plenty of other scatalogical terms which are not classed as obscenities.
is it just the physical deterrence factor, seemingly not present in the US, which kept browns fearful of being connected to ‘vulgarity’?
To this day, if one of those words (with the notable exception of ‘bloody’ and ‘bugger’ although those two words depict hemorraghing and pederasty which seem to be just as objectionable as anything else if not more so) comes out of a family member’s mouth in front of the matriarch, there will be a crisp, vinegary ADDI soon to follow.
though i do find it highly entertaining to hear “Put it in his bloody bugger goddamn Vettori teeth, Malinga.”
have we simply been left with the least choice of pickings from the colonial grab bag of cuss words? Would that paucity of verbal filth not inspire those emigrating to this country to acquire every silly cuss word they found? And then deny that joy to the people back home?
there are are industries in the US which seem ‘professional’ but which foster all kinds of unprofessional behavior. I usually drop the f bomb about 10-20 times at work on a good day and much more on a bad one. and yes, I do work in a real office, that issues real GAAP statements and has real worries about complying with sarbanes-oxley (if ye are skeptical).
In my experience it is okay to use english cuss words in India. It’s the Indian ones that are taboo. Perhaps the impact of the english ones doesn’t fully sink in. Sort of like how I noticed one of the bloggers here recently use the word chutiya. I found that a bit surprising because from the way they otherwise write I doubt they’d use the same word in english.
All this talk about bullshit being acceptable in India (while news to me), reminds me of an Icelandic TA I had who used the word routinely and frequently in class, to the amusement and sometime discomfort of the students. No idea if has to do with Icelandic culture…
Good point 🙂
I’m with Divya on this one. It’s as if curse words in English have less impact as those in Hindi. You can see this, for instance, in the censoring of films – some films have been explicitly silent-bleeped or otherwise edited for desi explitives, but shit, asshole and sometimes fuck are never out. This is even more true in Tamil films – comparing my exposure to films of the two languages, I still know more curse words in Hindi than in Tamil, which I’ve been speaking since a child! On the other hand, it could be that film makers self-censor by avoiding desi expletives, but even that would show a differential treatment of cursing in the two languages.
Is it Bull Shit and hence the abbreviation BS. It’s spelt as Bullshit (one-word) in the ad and this just doesn’t seem right.
Isn’t there a kiddies’ card game called Bullshit in the States? Rather like Balderdash and Bluff?
It’s true that earthier English words don’t seem to draw the same attention in desh as our favourite chod-suffixed ones. Perhaps it’s because of the higher status of English and assumption that no mild swear word in English could possibly be that bad. This reminds me too of Shilpa Shetty’s silly remark about being shocked at her potty-mouthed housemates on Big Brother because she thought of England as the country of the queen, high tea and Shakespeare, even though Shakespeare could be pretty earthy himself. But her association of Things English with Classiness was interesting.
…to the amusement and sometime discomfort of the students.
And Indians are considered uptight? 🙂
SP, my mom theorizes that it’s considered “cool” and “Westernized” (i.e. “high-class”) to use English swear words.
It is quite a sight to see Sunny Deol roar “You bastard” or “Haramzade”. Telugu audiences haven’t been too hostile to the odd milder expletive in popular culture in recent times, IMO. Depends on the context. In any case, the usual protests against obscenity etc are usually orchestrated by some two bit political outfit (as a few have pointed out).
I asked about whether this billboard signals a decay in culture or if to those of you who know better, it’s no big deal at all. That’s it. I promise I wasn’t assuming anything, in fact, I even asked if the tipster’s comment was inaccurately comparing two different things, though perhaps I should have used “apples and “oranges” instead of attempting to be cute with the jack fruit. I asked all of you because I honestly did not know and all of you do. To those of you who enlightened me without insulting me or a few hundred-thousand other ABDs who had no choice about the fact that they were born here 30-years ago, thank you.
Look, I knew that my family in India said “bullshit”, but
a) it was often, “bloody bullshit!” which to me sounded like cursing. And the men who said this daily would NOT have written it down or used it in formal conversation or. To those of you who point out that one literally encounters fecal matter from bulls in India, thus a descriptive term for it is accurate, not vulgar, I offer this as an explanation of where I’m coming from– I am well aware that dung is used for many things, but to the best of my knowledge, it’s not bloody stool that is so ubiquitous or useful. Hence my confusion.
b) my family loves swearing. Which is why when I read certain comments under my posts on this site, I often find myself muttering “Po oombe, maire”. Everyone I’ve ever met is absolutely horrified by my command of such language, and I was always told (by my livid Mother) that the way my Dad and his brothers (and me!) dropped such words in to casual conversation was utterly unacceptable. So, if my family often used the word “bullshit”…I just naively thought that word might be, too. My mother does not say “bullshit”. Ever.
Hmmm, I wonder whom this sarcasm is aimed at…ah yes, South Asian ME, especially since I was naive enough to write this post. Well then. Allow ABC me to respond.
(and this one is for you, Daddy.) Pardon my bitchiness (though we could explain my being princess-y as a tragically direct effect of my inclusion in the oppressive South Asian patriarchal system), but you mean “four bedroom, 3 bath suburb home by Merrycedes driving parents”. The thought of owning a Camry or Accord would have sent my autophile father, who never purchased a Japanese car, to an even earlier demise, so let’s be accurate when we stereotype. Lest Daddy start moving in his current grave, I offer the aforetyped obnoxious correction.
Hey, I’m not the one who “went” there. :p
You are absolutely correct. I didn’t walk anywhere. My father was interested in immersing us in many things once we were finally back in Kerala; cow excrement (especially of the steaming variety) was NOT one of them. Beyond all that, why the hell would anyone need to? Or is watching where you are going a South Asian activity?
Wow, talk about generalizing.
No joke– I have no idea what you are referring to, so please don’t hold it against me. We are all individuals in this bloggy bunker. I am NOT responsible for what Abhi or Ennis says and v.v. We don’t ever agree with each other and we are not all the same person, so kindly don’t turn us in to one.
Right on the money. Only barely 15% people of India speak English language anyway. Using English cuss word would be like using a chinese cuss word in the US. (Little bit exaggerated) If a local paper used Indian cuss words they would be in lot more trouble than Richard Gere is.
Ah, you’ve obviously not encountered some of my posts here, where I’ve used that and worse in English. 😀 Which perfectly proves my point about how each of the bloggers here is VERY different and if one does something, it often means…nothing wrt the rest.
Interesting, didn’t realize that.
If a local paper used Indian cuss words they would be in lot more trouble than Richard Gere is. True. I wonder if this might not mostly be self-censorship. There hasn’t been a huge movement, AFAIK, on part of the local newspapers to reduce this sort of censorship.
You can see this, for instance, in the censoring of films – some films have been explicitly silent-bleeped or otherwise edited for desi explitives, but shit, asshole and sometimes fuck are never out. I wonder if these two phenomena might not be partly because both regional language newspapers and Bollywood/[?]ollywood movies are considered family reading and family entertainment resp.ly. It is pretty much accepted in the Bollywood industry that, for a movie to be successful, you have to reach the largest audience possible.
right on the money is right. the tipster is comparing apples and oranges. Indian taboos are different than those here. hasn’t anyone here seen a bollywood movie where they say ‘shit’ non stop. it doesn’t hold the same weight to its target audience as you, me and joe smith.
Isn’t there a kiddies’ card game called Bullshit in the States? Rather like Balderdash and Bluff? Yes. Never actually played it, nor seen anyone play the game under that name. Except in “How to Lose a Guy in 10 Days”. I can’t believe I actually admitted to having seen that piece of work, but anyways, I guess it isn’t considered all that bad to say the word in a private setting. Nobody actually says bullsh*t in the US, but saying “BS” is quite common. And BS, of course, stands for Bachelor of Science.
Apropos #18 (& several other comments in the same vein), I hadn’t realised, despite several years in the U.S., that “bullshit” was such a no-no. But then, I hung out with academics, who are less buttoned-up than their peers in the corporate sector. In fact, in fields of research where fashion, pedigree — and other similar social forces — shape the course of “knowledge production”, the word “bullshit” is merely a necessary term. Often, it’s just the most succinct way of describing a research paper/preprint being discussed. Two less commonly used — but not because they are more odious — derivatives of “bullshit” that I remember are:
Bullshitistic missile : A highly dubious piece of research sent one’s way with great sound, fury and propulsive force (i.e. the approbation of a “star” in one’s field), usually from another continent.
Bullshitistry : A piece of research that everyone suspects will eventually go nowhere, but which seems very compelling due to the consummate artistry of its presentation.
I don’t know if I offended you chaps, but I clearly didn’t mean to. I objected (and still do) to broad generalizations. I don’t think they are fair and quite frankly reflect on intellectual lethargy of people making them. My comments initially were with regard to the statement:
I personally have been a little ticked off with the media for the disproportionate coverage they give people who really represent a tiny and loony fraction of Indian society. They trigger debates and invite these talking heads who spew more garbage and generalizations than my tiny brain can process.
This I understand is off topic as far as the discussions on cuss words go, so I’ll make this my last comment.
Agreed, GB! “It’s a bunch of bull,” being a common expression in my lab here. But, you are right in stating that the usage is more acceptable in less formal academic contexts. I suspect, it is only at work and at formal social situations where ‘bullshit’ is unacceptable. These rules hold in India, as well as in the US; its only that in India, for reasons that I am not quite sure of, the word ‘shit’ is perfectly acceptable usage and common in urban social spaces. One could go to a family-friends’ place for dinner and Monopoly, and loudly curse “shit!” when you have to go to Jail and miss your turn or pay extortionary rent for visiting Mayfair. Since bullshit is a derivative, that is perfectly acceptable too.
So, to conclude, it is like chutney when compared to the thokku pickle that would aptly describe poor Shilpa Shetty’s predicament in India.
Not only are English swearwords considered less harmful than Desi ones, some even think of them as stylish word-enhancers (thank you SpongeBob). Most Desi ad professionals I know, (and I know a lot of them), are a peculiarly foulmouthed lot. Age and education has nothing to do w/ it. Even the smooth-world-traveling-Cannes-judge types cuss like sailors. A woman I know quit advertising over this, er, BS. Like the graffiti says, “Obscenity is a crutch for illiterate bastardsâ€.
GB, “Bullshitistic missiles Do you mean applied math? Wouldn’t b.s.-laden stuff be not so common in theoretical areas of research, where the work can be reviewed fairly objectively?
Apropos #18 (& several other comments in the same vein), I hadn’t realised, despite several years in the U.S., that “bullshit” was such a no-no. Only in formal settings, and then you generally avoid swearing anyway. Unless, of course, it comes totally naturally, as in, f’rinstance, “That sucks”. I don’t think I have seen a difference in the use of the word in academia versus regular conversation.
Newys, there was an ad campaign in the U.S. that went “Make 7 Up Yours”. Most “close-to-swearing ad line”, anyone? I doubt that ad managers care too much about who they offend.
Why is shit considered offensive? What about words like piss and crap, are they also bleep-worthy ?? It is quite harmless and not at all considered offensive in an Indian context. Even its translation in local languages like ghoo-gobar is not considered to be in the same league as other swear words (it is ofcourse impolite and crass maybe).
That movie starred Mammooty not Mohanlal. What is the problem with that title ?
Shankar asked:
Yes and no. The part about more rigorous peer-reviewing is certainly correct. After all, a proof is a proof is a proof. The issue of whether “the result can be reproduced” — and judgement-calls related to this issue do not arise. However, the problem with theoretical work is that — more often than not — there’s no extrinsic acid test to deem a piece of work “important”. This can lead to the emergence of fads and fashions. A good example of how a solid theoretical programme can veer off towards bullshitistry can be inferred from the following movie review http://cosmicvariance.com/2006/12/12/the-string-kings/. Lest all this seemed a bit too academic to people on this board, do check out the link for some light relief.
It’s not just India with the “lost in translation” issues. Think about “shag”. Mike Myers played it for laughs but it really does have much harsher connotations in Britain (or did until recently). “Wanker”, “git” etc. have stronger connotations on that side of the pond as well, whereas here, they’re considered polite company euphemisms for what you really want to call the fuckwad.
Sort of like how I noticed one of the bloggers here recently use the word chutiya
What a chutiya comment 🙂
I love the word chutiya. I hope we can encourage the use of the word everywhere.
My theory is that the more a culture invests in hiding its poop (e.g. Europe, N. America, Japan) the greater the strictures against scatalogical terms in polite speach. For example the Indus Valley Civ had a highly developed sewer system and not a single seal/tablet containing the word “bullshit” has been found.
Each culture is different I guess, with the early Teutonic fear of biotechnology making a cuss word out of the chimeric “pig-dog” in Germany
So much bullshit about bullshit?
I don’t think it is quite the cuss word (even in America) it is being made out to be. You hear crowds shout it when a ref blows a call in Basketball. The TV audio picks it up, and the sportscaster says something like “the crowd is expressing its displeasure at the call”. I think if it was equivalent to any other cuss word there would have been a move to do something about it.
And for those of you who can’t get enough of it, may I recommend On Bullshit.
To add to Shlok #36 and DDiA #40, using ‘shit’ in movies is exclusive to the domain of educated, apparently stylish characters. And as others pointed out earlier, using equivalent hindi (or presumably other language) terms would be several orders of magnitude more offensive or at least disturbing. I can’t imagine saying ‘tatti’ in place of shit anywhere in any situation in India :). On the other hand, maybe calling something out as ‘gobar’ is likely more acceptable, though it may not have the same exact connotation…
I think these ad execs are really discussing philosophy.