No, I am not referring to Sanjaya Malakar, because I wouldn’t want American Idol commentators to think that desi-Americans are monolithic in their support of him (we’re not), and I am not referring to me because well, desi never left my life. What I am getting at is the attempted resurgence of desi influences in mainstream American popular music, and surprisingly (or not so surprisingly depending on how you look at it) the current effort by producer extraordinaire Timbaland to bring desi back by featuring two desi-ish tracks on his latest release, Timbaland Presents Shock Value. The first of the two is “Bombay” featuring British-Asian songs
tress Amar, and the other “Come Around” with our girl M.I.A., which for some strange reason is only available in the U.S. as an import.
Like much of the album, both tracks are solid. Bombay is a straight up Hindi track, it features Amar’s vocal (rather than simply using it as a hook), its addictive, and makes good use of the “Bollywood of Yore” effect. The track has additional production by long-time Timbaland collaborator Jim Beanz, who recently released a couple of sanctioned remixes of two Nelly Furtado Tracks featuring Amar, Promiscuous Girl and Maneater, both of which are available for free download on Amar’s myspace page. Many of you might remember Amar for her hauntingly awesome vocal on the opening track Jaan of Talvin Singh’s groundbreaking compilation Anokha. On the heals of Anokha, she released a solo album, Outside, produced by Nitin Sawhney, but then seemingly fell off, until Beanz’s remix of Promiscuous started to make the rounds. For now anyway, it seems Amar may be the new Raje Shwari, the singer Timbaland and many others used for their Indian hooks a few years ago (Indian Flute, Bounce, Disco etc.), but hasn’t really been heard from since. I hope things work out better for Amar then they did for Raje.
As for the M.I.A. track, I don’t know, I can’t get enough. It’s got M.I.A.’s grimey rapping style, Timbaland’s typically solid production, and desi beats, incorporating and flipping the hook from a recent indi-pop hit “Let the Music Play.” The only thing wrong with this track is it isn’t on the American release.
Do I think Timbaland can bring desi back? I hope so. He’s gonna need help though, and by the lack of really good records from the desi diaspora over the past couple of years, it is going to be tough. For too long the desi music scene has relied upon British-Asian talent to bring the heat. I love British-Asian music, but its sound has gotten stagnant and it is time for desis on this side of the Atlantic to step up. From the word on the street and from what I’ve been hearing, I’m hopeful.
I just heard the tracks on Amar’s myspace page. It’s off the dang CHAIN!! Love it.
My theory about the decline of the “Hindi hook” in hip hop and pop is, it has everything to do with DJ Quik and “Addictive.” Once American producers started getting sued for the samples, the sampling stopped…
Thanks sajit; followed the links. David Starfire….I like it.
Great article – would love to connect with you Sajit, I run http://www.desihits.com which is a music and entertainemnt site for the next generation of desis worldwide. you can catch me on anj(at)desihits.com – cheers Anjula
Good Post, I love all the music. Do you know where i can hear “Let the Music Play” track.
Thanks
The thing is, Quik’s Addictive was really the first track to sample and actually be successful on the mainstream. Once Quik and Dre got sued, the producers started getting smart about clearing samples, and in Timbaland’s case, even began finding singers, like raje shwari, to create new hindi hooks, so I don’t necessarily think that was the end. I actually attribute the decline in Hindi-hop to the lack of musical innovation in the desi diaspora and in India over the past couple of years.
Great. Another ABCD blaming India 😉
wow!! thanks for sharing! love the m.i.a. track. my buddy did a great remix of m.i.a.’s URAQT. check it out at: http://www.myspace.com/horizontalk
Nice little Tamil hook on the MIA track.
SonofSatan: The hook is dope, but I think it is actually Punjabi, and not Tamil.
This is what he is saying:
“O na kar maan rupaiye wala bar bar ke na rajje bai na kar maan rupaiye wala bar bar ke na rajje”
Can any Punjabi speakers translate?
does anybody, aside from me, lament the steady decline of Asian Dub Foundation and the self-marginalization of Aki Nawaz? there was the magic time in the mid-90s when a brown, or desi, breakthrough seemed inevitable and then the bottom fell out.
I copped the Arthi Meera cd from cdbaby after reading about her here. It’s very good, sort of melancholy pop music that I highly endorse. Support brown music!
Trust me guys you will be seeing WAY more Hindi-hop – we have been working with 2 of the top Hip Hop artists who are hooked by the bollywood world – as I always say to them sampling is just not the way forward – black meets brown is!! very exciting times lay ahead… And bhangra and hiphop go so well we ran a article with Andre 3000 he asked us to help him tie a turban and wanted to learn more about Bhangra – we have pictures on our site under the archives http://www.desihits.com way cool – also check out the track we had an exclusive on which Bohemia (punjabi rapper) did with snoop dog – that was actually very good…
woah, M.I.A. sounds like Lilly Allen on that track…
anjdesihits.com : awesome awesome website. I am sooo glad that I read your post and ‘discovered’ your site. I had no idea such a site existed! I will be frequent visitor!
I personally find that “Desi-hiphop” seems too contrived. By which I mean that the producers in this genre (not the mainstream hiphop ones like Timbaland, but desi ones) usually are trying too hard to have that next “addictive” on the charts. What happens is that when these desi producers try to make a leap towards the “mainstream”, they end up loosing their desi fan base as well. And their “mainstream” track isn’t any spectacular, its usually a old hindi sample with a hiphop bassline and then you got some rapper rapping simply nonsense. I know that lyricism is dead in hiphop, but it isn’t getting better from a desi point of view as well. Desi rappers appear to mimic a style of their mainstream counterparts but fall short because ‘their lifestyle’ isn’t believable. They are not true to themselves. There are some rappers who take lyricism seriously but you will hardly hear from them, because they are not trying to make you “bounce wid it”. Have a look at rappers like Lazerous http://www.myspace.com/lazdetroit and Flex Singh http://www.myspace.com/flexsingh
A very good example of an artist who is true to himself is Panjabi MC. He never was aiming for the mainstream market (perhaps had the desire but never catered to it). He just made hard-core bhangra records. I’ve been his biggest fan since early 90s when he first put out Rootz and Grass Roots. He released Legalised one of the best groundbreaking-bhangra releases in my books. Its right up there with Wham Bam by Bally Sagoo and Dark and Dangerous by Bally Jagpal. My point is PMC just did his thing, because the record was so good, regardless if you were a bhangra fan or not, you found yourself moving to it. And thus his story. But where is he now in the mainstream? He’s done a few remixes here and there but again he is back to his Bhangra roots. His latest tracks BellyDancer and Jagga are even more hardcore bhangra.
I guess you can also say my point also is that the desi producers should remain true to what they know, stop trying too hard to break into that ‘mainstream’ market. It is more than just taking a old hindi/bhangra loop and adding a bassline to it to sell records. Just do what you know best and let your music speak for itself.
You may have that one hit, but after that what will you do? You can only live off that desi sound for so long until it gets tiring. Hiphop is a very cut throat environment you could be the hottest producer of the moment but you’ll be a nobody in no time. Timbaland survives, because he is diverse, his musical knowledge extends far beyond a desi sample.
Indian samples have been used in hiphop for a very long time, ever since Blood Money by CNN and that one track by Shock G on “Dont drink your juice while being a menace to society”, I forget its name right now.
Btw I dont know if you guys know but Amar is the daughter of Mangal Singh. He’s famous for singing the 80s hit, “Rail Gaddi”.
anyways these are my 2 paise on desi hiphop. People need to stop trying too hard
Sajit – great post – now I have some great new music for the weekend =)
anj ~ awesome site. Do you have a link to the andre 3000 article?
Timbaland really can’t rap. Cringe-inducing in content and delivery! Other than that it’s a neat track…
Hey WhoKnows. I’m glad you put your two cents in. First, a tangent. I don’t think lyricism in hip-hop is dead (Clipse) and i also don’t think “bouncing wid it” (MIA) is so trivial. I would add talking cool to the list of hip-hop musts along with authenticity, personality, honesty and the ability to express oneself. I’d be weary of giving any of those more weight than another in terms of importance. Hip-hop is about all those things in one, none of which are mutually exclusive (“cut throats and diamond cut ropes i twirl”).
Anyways, I’m glad you brought up that point about people trying too hard. That was a great point. The thing is that to a lot of South Asians raised in America (myself included), there’s still a certain “outside looking in” aspect of our relationship to traditional Indian culture, yet in the music there’s little acknowledgement of such nuances. To me it often comes out either lacking authenticity or simply vacuous. To acknowledge these nuances doesn’t mean to downplay the role of this culture in our lives. As far as desi music being used by non-desi producers or non-desi artists in the mainsream hip-hop, I don’t really care much for it. It usually just boils down to rappers exoticing Indian women (“move your body like a snake mama, make me wanna put the snake on ya”). That random hot west/east fusion track is cool, but we’ve been in that phase for a while now. As far as Bhangra infliltrating hip-hop and the west, that’s cool, but in its pure, imported form it’s not going to become part of the larger American culture because its too other-worldly for an American audience to become more entrenched.
What would be interesting i think for south asians in the western media would be a desi hip-hop head that was raised in the US and with an engaging personality the likes of Eminem. Someone who doesn’t force the Indian aspect, but just is himself, through which his indianness will inevitably come out honestly and more purely. An Indian dude or dudette with personality, authenticity, honesty, the ability to express himself and, the clincher, with an undenable Americannes and an undeniable Indianness.
ps. i think MIA has come the closest so far
ok, missed the most important thing there… i’m waiting for someone in the desi hip-hop community who actually has something to say…
woah, i take that last comment back, that was rediculous, i’ve heard like 1% of the desi hip-hop music out there, what do i know to be saying something like that
I totally agree (I think Hell Hath No Fury was one of the best records of last year). Jay-Z’s lyrics are always pretty multi-layered, and he plays with his cadence a ridiculous amount. Lupe Fiasco’s wordplay is good for several repeated listens. But a shit-ton of serious lyricists have been relegated to the underground (MF Doom, cats on Stones Throw, etc.). You just have to search them out a little bit, because they major labels have sewn our assholes shut, and keep feeding us crap.
Back In the day Rakim also had a Desi influenced song out. I also agree with the poster who said that timbaland can’t rap good producer but his raps suck.
The “desi influenced” song was actually “Paid in Full” featuring the amazing, now deceased, Israeli singer, Ofra Haza and her track, “”Im Nin’Alu”…Love Timbaland’s “Bombay”, but Eric B & Rakim’s “Paid in Full” was miles ahead of anything released by Timbaland.
Doug, I am not sure about how far “back in the day” you are referring to, but Rakim was on the “Addictive” record we mention above. I must say, his lyricism on that record was less than inspired.
Whoknows–I agree with a lot of what your saying, but producers, whether desi or not, like anyone, need to leave comfort zones at times to learn, be influenced by other sounds, and get inspired (like Timbaland). If you stick to what you know, then the sound gets tired and repetitive and that leads to the many crappy releases that are out right now. There needs to be more innovation. That desi beats genre of three-four years ago, just like the Asian Underground genre used to have tons and tons of creative thought, and led to some amazing, amazing music. There haven’t been too many desi tracks recently that have really blown me away.
But I think rather than stop trying, producers need to try harder.
Brother Ali’s new album, out on 4.10.
Timbaland & M.I.A. – Come Around very hot.
When that song came out it was like 1986 or 87 back when he was with Eric B.
Hey Sajit-
Can you name a few of these amazing tracks that blew you away of the Asian Underground or desi beats genre.
Thanks
You talking about the one and only God Rakim Allah? Folks need to get the facts straight. There are two possible songs y’all are talking about. One is “Seven Minutes of Pleasure” REMIX of “Paid in Full,” the title track of the first Eric B. and Rakim album back in 1987. As akrnyc says, that remix featured Ofra Haza. There’s nothing particularly desi about it, but it does have that Middle Eastern flava. Again though, it’s a remix and not the original song off the album. Alternately, you’re talking about Rakim’s cameo rapping on Truth Hurts’ song “Addictive.” That was in 2002, fifteen years after “Paid in Full,” and it was basically a favor Rakim did for Dr. Dre, with whom he was beginning to collaborate at that time. (Nothing came of the partnership.) Truth Hurts was a one-hit-wonder singer whom Dre was producing at that time. Judging Rakim on that throwaway cameo would be like judging Martin Luther King’s oratory based on his farts.
I just downloaded some of the singles from the CD today on iTunes. I really like the Bombay track as well as some the others (Give It To Me, Release, and One and Only) I can’t seem to get that M.I.A. track off of iTunes though.
I like hip hop. I’ve said this numerous times before and the majority of people on SP can’t stand my comments. But once again only a few people here know what they are talking about or have any real hip hop history.
I heard this album a month ago prior to being released, as a i have a few friends in the music industry. Timbaland is a great producer, no one is questioning that, and i personally enjoy his Scott Storch diss in “give it to me”, altho it has already been overkilled.
The tracks discussed particularly Bombay is quite contrived and lacks any lyrical content. Nearly every solo Timbaland album has been below average. The beat itself is a fairly bad attempt for someone at his ability. I could see this beat as being great, if it was some desi kid in his basement, but not by Timbaland or any grammy level producer. I mean he did “big pimpin” which was insane when it first hit, ironically the most recognizable loop is from an old arabic artist, “Khosara” by Abdel Halim Hafez.
I personally prefer Primo (DJ Premier) and Eric B was the shit back in the day, got Paid in full on vinyl, Rakim is still one of the sickest MCs.
As for MIA, after realizing that galang galang is not an original beat by anymeans and was stolen from the x-men, i think either Rob Swift or Roc Raida to be exact. A ’96 mixtape has the exact same beat, with a tad faster BPM. Point is, i was decieved and no longer have any respect for MIA and who ever produced that album as i’m sure its not the x-men.
What i think we need to see and i think a few people have mentioned is that desi kids need to be the innovators here, no more beat matching a dholak and bhangra beat on top of some already multiplatinum beat, thats not music, its crap.
BUT
since the average reader here has a consumerized hip hop education, why hasn’t anyone mentioned Kelly Rowlands new single “like this” its got a prominent dholak loop and the song has potential to be a large club banger beat.
Timbaland shouldn’t be bringing desi back….it SHOULD be a desi, so boyz and girls go out and buy some MPCs, a mac, a keyboard and start sampling all your parents old records and bollywood cds. I personally get about 200 vintage vinyl from bombay and delhi everytime i go, mostly old instrumentals which will never be produced again. http://www.futureproducers.com – anyone who wants to learn, not a bad start
cheers
“Indian samples have been used in hiphop for a very long time, ever since Blood Money by CNN and that one track by Shock G on “Dont drink your juice while being a menace to society”, I forget its name right now. “
You sure it’s Bloody Money by CNN? Just seems to be a piano sample to me…
“What would be interesting i think for south asians in the western media would be a desi hip-hop head that was raised in the US and with an engaging personality the likes of Eminem. Someone who doesn’t force the Indian aspect, but just is himself, through which his indianness will inevitably come out honestly and more purely. An Indian dude or dudette with personality, authenticity, honesty, the ability to express himself and, the clincher, with an undenable Americannes and an undeniable Indianness.”
I agree…someone like Big Pun for example..
Also has any entrepreneurial South Indian or Sri Lankan desi producer try to integrate Mridangam into a hip-hop beat? Would be more interesting than the tried and tested tablas and dhol…
Yup, it’s been done. Here’s a 40 second clip.
I added some Armenian, Brazilian, and Chinese instruments for good measure. Let me know what you think.
its not tamil – its punjabi
translation of
“O na kar maan rupaiye wala bar bar ke na rajje bai na kar maan rupaiye wala bar bar ke na rajje”
do not give into the world of wealth/rich people
…its not word to word translation but thats roughly the meaning
“As for MIA, after realizing that galang galang is not an original beat…”
MIA is a scenester/art school kid who plays the controversy game well…she got into the biz through indie rock circles (Elastica)..she is a cute, marketable force for a lucrative market, her hooks are krs-1 lite for crowds that don’t care (I call them the Wes Anderson acolytes)…And Coco..I think Roc Raida did the beat first..I saw him in 96′ spin it live….he should get a check
Very interesting dialogue regarding desi hip hop. We’ve been working on a project for almost two years and the one thing we believe in is the authenticity of our artist. Anyone interested, please visit http://www.soundtripps.com
Go to the link at the top that says “original music” – the first item on the list is the track “Karcho Kao” by K-Huss.
Please bear in mind, this is not going to be the final version on the album, this was the first track and yes, we did use someone else’s beat but we are in the studio right now redoing all of our tracks for original beats. So, please don’t trash us for using others’ beats, we know that, we were trying to work out all the lyrics first and get the artist used to working in the studio.
Good post btw, Sajit. I’m stoked to hear Amar’s back, she’s a talented singer who, aside from her stellar track with Talvin Singh, just wasn’t able to hook up with the right producer. I like what I’ve heard so far and hope there’s more to come.
There’s a small cadre of talented, desi musicians based in the states that I believe are poised for greater recognition and success. I know you’ve blogged about the following artists before, but I’d like to mention them again to those who may be unfamiliar.
West Coast:
Kush Arora. Love him or hate him, his music definitely can’t be classified as conventional.
Dhamaal I had the pleasure and privilege of sharing the stage with these true innovators before they folded late last year. Clips from their album can be heard here.
East Coast
Sharmaji This guy is a one man wrecking ball. Check the beats on his siteif you don’t believe me.
Suphala Talented tabla player and producer, touring the NYC area this month.
There are, of course, more artists, but the aforementioned should serve as an ample primer. Anyone know of desi artists holding it down in the Midwest?
I think John’s right, the sample listed is from the great (but not desi) Bill Conti’s Philidelphia Morning.
Justine Frischmann is listed as the co-producer on the liners notes, but I wouldn’t be surprised if she lifted the beat from another source, given the accusations of plagiarism in her past.
I disagree. No one should be precluded from doing what to they musically (or in any respect, for that matter) because of their own background.
Mad respect. That song was a staple at all the desi functions back in the day.
Vinny J: For what it’s worth, your Punjabi rapping brought a smile to my face. Interpret that as you’d like. @=)
MIA is too good for Timbaland’s boring drivel. What’s up with Timbaland and the teepee joke? What a spaz!
As for Timbaland bringing Desi to the fore, it seems he’s only up for lusting after Indian gyals. We are always being objectified by white men and black men.
Moreover, Desi artists (like MIA, although she definitely has her own flavour) are mainly mimicking black musicians.
DJ, GREAT list! I am now a committed Suphala fan. Thanks so much 🙂
I have a dream:
Sorry, I didn’t see your post until just now. A short list of the Asian Underground tracks I love: State of Bengal–Rama Communication Talvin Singh: I liked Anokha, and Loved OK–Light, Butterfly, Eclipse. Ha was good, but a very different vibe than the other two albums. Old TJ Rehmi Invisible Rain and Mind Filter–I like Exposure, the fusionist, skrutinizer, is it legal Karsh Kale: I love all of Realize Many of the Badmarsh and Shri records, Dancing Drums is a classic Ges-E and Equal-i’s remix of AR Rahman So Gaye Hain is phenomenal Karsh Kale’s Realize: I like the entire album Nitin Sawhney–I love his stuff, on Displacing the Priest, I love Bengali Song and on Broken Skin-Nadia is a classic.
I realize that this got kind of long and that I haven’t even gotten to the Punditz, Cheb i Sabbah, ADF, Black Star Liner…Let me know if you want more specific tracks.
I am with drrrty poonjabi: In my book, anyone can bring desi back, as long as it is done well.
Personally, I think Swami will be bringing desi back this year in a big way.
Have you read Bobby Friction, and Nihal‘s reviews of their forthcoming album due out this summer? They each wrote separate reviews and are both seemingly very impressed. Bobby wrote that one song was the most original desi song he had ever heard.
Shireen I would like to know where you got this info from? I don’t think Timbaland is lusting over Indian women so you can stop the generalizations not all white and blackmen are out to sex themselves a fine Indian woman like you put it.
Mister Dougie?
Where did I get this idea from? Everywhere since I 16. I didn’t say ALL, I just said it happens a lot and in hip-hop, it certainly happens a lot. I grew up in a black area and I’ve experienced a lot of posturing and annoying sexual innuendos: some black men assume that you will have an arranged marriage and that you are a good girl who needs some loving (corrupting), and I just don’t appreciate being harrassed and stereotyped myself. Having worked in TV and broadcasting, I can tell you it happens a lot. Many a white boss thinks he can get fresh with a pretty South Asian woman. I had to disagree with an unappealing ‘feminist’ professor in my English department at university who stated that Arundhati Roi won the booker prize and critical acclaim because she was a beautiful, exotic woman.
Ask any independent South Asian girls who will relate similar tales. I’m sure it doesn’t just happen to attractive desi women – I think objectification is prevalent among black, East Asian and Latin women too.
As for asking where I got this info from: why do I have to justify my views by sharing personal experiences with you?
FYI I have lived alone since I was in my late teens, lived and travelled and have and have had black, white and Asian lovers, friends and haters. Am I going to feel bad about having an opinion? No I am not.
New Madlib–Beat Konducta in India–looks to be off the chain.
came across this debate site about desi-music…..quite interesting ideas and thoughts. Don’t know if any of you have ever heard of an Asian musician called Ashok Prema?. I came across his music (no vocals) when he played at Jodrell Bank observatory with a guitarist. Mind-blowingly different. Various sites have his music on offer. check it out.
Fantastic article, i agree with much of the points made here however the desi artists out there need to come up with their own unique style rather than relying on and copying styles from mainstream hip hop artists. Im part of a UK based website (http://www.asianrhythm.com) a desi digital music and video downloads store and entertainment site. Were always looking for fresh people to join us! help us grow..