118 thoughts on “Further Conversational Excursions with our Community’s Future”

1. It does seem like Anna’s posts generate some unprovoked haters, and perhaps that makes long time readers defensive, but Mishi doesn’t seem to be one of them. Mishi, you may really be alone in taking offense to the posting, but I support your right to say so.

   I agree with this. I’m not offended by this post at all but Mishi was and she expressed herself politely and eloquently without attacking anyone. Who are we to judge her feelings? Being snarky and rude to her is unfair, and totally uncalled for, in my opinion. This could have been a cool discussion about brown-on-brown racism and stereotypes associated with each subculture in America.

2. Sorry about the broken link up there. I’m not an expert at this interwebs stuff yet. Here is the cut-and-paste link: http://stevethepenguin.blogspot.com/2007/03/desi-isnt-guy-from-i-love-lucy.html.

   And thank you, Chaitan!

3. Anna, I seriously heart your posts. In fact, I first started visiting SM to read your and Vij’s posts. Yours and Amardeep’s posts are the only reason I still frequent SM these days. No offense to other bloggers, but you and Vij are in a far higher league of your own. You are obviously a very kind and sensitive person with a gift for observing and understanding human feelings. I just wanted to let you know that your putting yourself out there is so very much appreciated. Your sincerity and genuine compassion for other humans are to be treasured and cherished – one does not see them often in this otherwise hate-filled and cynical world.

   Do not let the nay-sayers get to you. My brown sister, please keep blogging your heart out just the way you always have. Us desis and the Intarweb will be much worse off if you didn’t.

4. I usually like Anna’s stuff, so please don’t take this as a personal jab. And I like it when people take creative departures.

   But I didn’t find this all that funny. Not because my Guju ass was offended but because, seriously, “O Rly” humor? d00d that i5 s0 l33t, we should totally make some All Your Base jokes on a BBS, or maybe start a newsgroup.

   I really wasn’t going to say anything about it because, why bother, but Anna’s post above kind of surprised me too, especially this:

   Third, do you announce that you were “bored” every time a post here doesn’t interest you? All I ask is that you treat me just as you would treat Abhi, Amardeep, Ennis or anyone else in the bunker. That sincere request is a plea from me to all, not just the two commenters I responded to here.

   Part of taking a creative risk is the fact that it might fall flat. If Abhi, Amardeep, Ennis (or Sin for bhagwan’s sake!) were to go off on a radical departure, I am SURE he (or she — this applies to Naina, Cicatrix, and other female SM bloggers too of course) would get some static, or at least less than enthusiastic reactions. But I’m not sure if they would react as though that were a personal affront. It seems as though refraining from voicing opinions about whether or not the humor of a post “worked” would be treating Anna differently from other posters.

   And hey, maybe that’s ok because she’s been so important to the site. I’m a relative noob, so I’m not going to argue against that. I did find that response surprising, however. Anyway, if this post is against community norms, then I’m fine with seeing it deleted, but I have to say I was shocked by Anna’s response to the (imho) mild criticism above.

5. Not because my Guju ass was offended but because, seriously, “O Rly” humor? d00d that i5 s0 l33t, we should totally make some All Your Base jokes on a BBS, or maybe start a newsgroup.

   If that’s all you got from this post, then I’m a terrible writer.

   If I can thicken my skin enough to do so, I’m going to stop responding to any criticism, because even when I think I’m clarifying things or trying to engage constructively, I get “I was shocked by Anna’s inappropriate overreaction!” comments.

   Part of taking a creative risk is the fact that it might fall flat. If Abhi, Amardeep, Ennis (or Sin for bhagwan’s sake!) were to go off on a radical departure, I am SURE he

   I linked to one of Amardeep’s creative departures. No negative comments there. I don’t think many of the others in the bunker would do something like this, so the comparison isn’t entirely useful.

   It seems as though refraining from voicing opinions about whether or not the humor of a post “worked” would be treating Anna differently from other posters.

   Do you always mention whether something “worked” for you? I’m starting to think that I’m talking past a few of you, that no matter what I say or how sincerely I try to explain it (and me), some of you won’t understand. I KNOW that I am sensitive, I never, EVER denied that, but I’m not unreasonable or deluded. Newsflash– I don’t expect that ANY of you, let alone SOME of you will like my writing.

   Anyway, if this post is against community norms, then I’m fine with seeing it deleted, but I have to say I was shocked by Anna’s response to the (imho) mild criticism above.

   I’m getting a little sick of the following three statements: “Oh no, now the Anna-fans will attack me”…”I’m sure this will get deleted”…”watch me get banned” are all grating and unnecessary. I’ve done the least amount of the latter two and as for the first, well, I don’t control how so-called “fans” react and whether they stand up for me. If it bothers you that they DO care enough to speak up, then please don’t hold that against me along with everything else. It’s insulting to insinuate that I somehow force such support or require it. I don’t. Maybe the fact that some do step in at these moments should tell you whatever it is I seem to be unable to convey.

6. Mishi:

   They didn’t happen to just be “Indian People,” their specific ancestry was made quite obvious, and the gujarati jabs and references were fairly overt in my opinion.

   Their specific ancestry was made obvious because that is exactly how people often form their screen names for chat programs. No nefarious motive here, despite what you’d like to imply.

   It’s a matter of personal interpretation on whether or not the author was attempting to (purposely or subconsciously) ‘kid on the square’ by littering the exchange with potentially insulting jokes.

   This might be one of the most infuriating things I’ve read in a while. That’s nice. You get to personally interpret whether I was insulting an entire sub-group of the diaspora, despite my not doing so, and then you can turn around and say that my telling the truth is immaterial because it’s all about your interpretation. And better yet, you can victoriously reply that I was doing it all subconsciously, when I contradict your claims. Awesome.

   It would be nice to believe that we have come this far as a community, but I don’t believe that we have, case in point- the need to differentiate between region of ancestry within the dialogues posted.

   See: my first response in this comment. Your case has no point.

   however at this point I am wondering if I had encapsulated my comments with an obligatory compliment my presence here would be more well received.

   Ah yes, that fantastic, martyr-like line of defense which I now cherish…”I, the humble and noble commenter who dared to zig when the rest of SM zagged, I am persecuted because I didn’t cower in front of ANNA the Mean Girl/Queen Bee and snivel while administering compliments and kisses to her rondure”. Again, insulting. Obligatory compliment? Inaccurate, unnecessary, petty, incendiary, unfair.

   Are extremely dangerous in inferring that I can’t differentiate between the author’s creative license and artistic motivation to include specific details in their work, versus their personal beliefs or values.

   Except…that’s exactly what you did. You can’t differentiate between my creation of a FICTIONAL character and your unbelievably undeserved assumption that I’ve got it in for Gujus.

   I’m sorry Desishiksa and Rupa, I worship the keyboards you type on, but I had to stand up for myself. Ironically, as someone who HAS been on the receiving end of ignorant stupidity from other sub-communities, I’d be a hypocrite if I decided to (publically, no less!) start attacking an entire group of desis. Well I won’t be accused of such ugliness, no matter how subtle the insinuation. Yes, she was polite, but no, she just didn’t get it. And even if you accuse someone of being a bigot politely, you’re still hurling an insult, one which I refuse to let stick.

7. No offense to other bloggers, but you and Vij are in a far higher league of your own.

   We all have our favorites. I happen to enjoy most of the bloggers here, especially A… no I won’t do that.

8. I am not unsympathetic to the kind of argument Mishi is making but I genuinely fail to see reason for it in this case – Mishi, you haven’t responded to the questions others have raised about your argument or pointed out what in the post stigmatised Gujaratis, and have repeated the same point a few times with slightly different language or just re-posted what you said earlier, so it’s a little difficult for the conversation to go anywhere. It’s only fair to put some thought into your critique when you scrutinise someone else’s writing for thoughtlessness or tangentially implied sentiments. You’re making an accusation that’s taken fairly seriously by probably most of us here, but there’s no evidence you point to except for a screen name, and as others have pointed out, people use those sorts of names all the time – what about NJchick or desi-something or other, if someone has a “desi” or “Mallu” screen name or tag do you automatically assume that it’s stigmatisation?

9. JayaPrada and HetalDiesel…I love it 🙂

10. Its horrifying to think that an entire generation might one day talk like this.

    Oh, let’s not be too harsh on the desi cubs and their IM lingo…I remember our elders calling us the “Clueless” generation and wondering how we would, like, totally land jobs and stuff since we all somehow talked like valley girls. Somehow it all worked out. Every generation has to “degrade” culture to some extent…it’s like a rite of passage 🙂

11. that seemed very much on the money (coming from someone who is about twenty years older than the interlocutors in your story it may not mean much) and a nice updating of the epistolary form. have you read shona ramaya’s Re:Mohit which uses email to similar effect. I think you do a much better job at getting at the pulst than kunzru’s essays at the genre in his second book. in other words:i think you might find yourself quitting your day job at some point ..

12. Anna,

    If it’s of any consolation, the only reason I visit is for the incredible variety of posts you and the SM gang come up with. I also heart the SM interns who keep things sane around here.

    Don’t let the nasties get you down. Soldier on!

13. You get to personally interpret whether I was insulting an entire sub-group of the diaspora, despite my not doing so, and then you can turn around and say that my telling the truth is immaterial because it’s all about your interpretation. And better yet, you can victoriously reply that I was doing it all subconsciously, when I contradict your claims. Awesome.

    Why wouldn’t I be able to personally interpret what the author of a piece of published work intended when incorporating certain details within their writing? As a reader of this blog, I read the postings, wanted to courteously express my thoughts, and also wondered about the reasons behind why the screen name was gujarati or the patel-jokes were made. It’s your article to publish, however I firmly stand by how I approached expressing myself. I’m not concerned about how you personally feel about any ethnic group, but I was interested in knowing what your artistic motivation was. This is exactly why I used Russell Peters as an example, because while reading these postings I experienced the same uncomfortable feeling I did while watching his shows. Do I think Russell Peters himself is actually prejudiced against every ethnic group he mentions in his routine? I don’t know, and I really don’t care either. What does interest me are his personal experiences that he drew from in order tell the jokes that he did. As an artist, he publicly performs his routine, and I as a member of the viewing public will interpret his work, form opinions, and express them as I feel.

    but there’s no evidence you point to except for a screen name, and as others have pointed out, people use those sorts of names all the time

    There’s no doubt that people use these screen names all the time, and that’s fine. Reading about a fictional gujarati character making statements like “wtf not my fault her parents were so f ing slow to pop out lil patelz” was something that, as I have stated before, riled certain emotions and I wanted to express them. I’m not here to build a case file of evidence on why I think anyone hates gujaratis – I wanted to know if the author intentionally chose to create a piece of work that specifically incorporated a borderline illiterate gujarati character, and if so, I further pondered what motivated the author to do so. If it was just a random ethnic choice, then so be it, but I still wanted to share my discomfort that this piece of writing incited and wondered if others had experienced the same emotion either after reading these postings or perhaps even in other situations.

14. Mishi, I think that’s part of the genre – the kids will call each other all sorts of things (ho,’abortion’), it’s part of the ‘yo mama’ style of verbal repartee and teasing. It’s a judgement on youth culture if anything, the IM generation. I didn’t read it as in any way ethnically indicative, but I suppose we all respond differently to stuff that’s said about “ours.”

    As an aside, Anna, I really like the Gujarati slightly sweet raita, that’s the one with the mustard in it, no? Sugar is also nice in banana raita. Mmm.

15. You can’t have it both ways, Mishi.

16. Man. As I said at the beginning of that post, I generally enjoy your substantive posts, your “slice of Desi life” stuff, 55 Fridays, and 99% of your posting. I wasn’t even going to comment on this post until the rather large post striking out, implying that everyone who didn’t particularly like it was attacking you, and suggesting a double standard in the way commenters treat you versus other posters. That was what surprised me. I’m uncomfortable with the idea that not finding something funny would be taken as a personal insult.

    But this is your site, and I know it sucks when people criticize things that you (and by “you” I mean anyone) write. But that’s a risk with creative endeavors, isn’t it? And as long as it’s not personally insulting (and yes, I know that some commenters on this site ARE personally insulting), aren’t those negative reactions a common, predictable feature of a comment-heavy blog like this?

    As for this:

    I’m getting a little sick of the following three statements: “Oh no, now the Anna-fans will attack me”…”I’m sure this will get deleted”…”watch me get banned” are all grating and unnecessary. I’ve done the least amount of the latter two and as for the first, well, I don’t control how so-called “fans” react and whether they stand up for me.

    I was not trying to say “oh poor me, my post will be deleted, whine whine free speech”. I absolutely believe the mods of this site have the right to set the norms of discussion however they want to. You’re providing a space for us, and that’s awesome. My intent in writing about deletion was to make clear that I wasn’t going to be offended or turn into some tenacious troll if the mods felt that post crossed the line. I apologize if it looked like I was acting put upon — sometimes I think the lack of tone in these online discussions can lead to overcommunication 🙁

17. also wondered about the reasons behind why the screen name was gujarati or the patel-jokes were made.

    Mishi – it’s quite simple. The original IM chat concerned two Kal Penn obsessed girls. It made sense for one of them to have been admitted to Penn but turned it down. Why might somebody turn down Penn? Because it’s too close to home. Well, if you look at those constraints, it’s logical to imagine that these girls would be Gujarati.

    But beyond that, this was such gentle ribbing and riffing on stereotypes that I’m amazed that you, or anybody else, took offense. You’re right – this is not a PBS introduction to all things SouthAsian where we never tease, poke fun, or kid around. It’s simply not that. We’re a bunch of adults with a snarky ironic sensibility. We stay far far away from ugly stereotypes because they’re ugly and they’re not funny. But this? Just because it’s not syrupy sweet jalebi like ethnic pride doesn’t mean that it’s Russel Peters style in your face comedy.

18. This Kal Penn I think is too young to be teaching as a professor ! He doesn’t know enough yet..

    I think he is just saying what his hollywood buddies have been telling him about politics and culture for the last few years..