Oh, All Right. But You Asked For It

READERS are blowing up the tip line asking us to cover the story below. Here’s a sampler:

  • “Where to even start?”
  • “I think the title says enough”
  • “I think this one is fairly obvious”
  • “interesting/ridiculous contrasts between public health awareness vs. outrageous journalism”
  • “I think it’s pretty self-explanatory why this is interesting. Scientific fact? Post-colonial subjugation through emasculation? What do desi women (or gay men) think?”

You asked for it. And here it is, via the BBC:

A survey of more than 1,000 men in India has concluded that condoms made according to international sizes are too large for a majority of Indian men. …

Over 1,200 volunteers from the length and breadth of the country had their penises measured precisely, down to the last millimetre.

The scientists even checked their sample was representative of India as a whole in terms of class, religion and urban and rural dwellers.

The conclusion of all this scientific endeavour is that about 60% of Indian men have penises which are between three and five centimetres shorter than international standards used in condom manufacture.

This news is the top item in William Saletan’s science round-up this morning in Slate, which offers a translation of the key finding for any macacas that aren’t down with the metric system:

Thirty percent of Indian men are 1 inch short, and another 30 percent are 2 inches short.

Cue up another round of outrage, snark, statistics, exotification and sundry manifestations of sexual anxiety. As you can see, two of the tipsters left comments questioning the reporting of this story. Media hype? Colonial plot? Lou Dobbs?

Speaking of sexual anxiety: For those of you who read this site because you are considering becoming involved with a diasporic macaca, I would caution that you not jump to any conclusions about his member until you’ve had a chance to inspect it for yourself. Emigration leads to changes in diet and other health factors, which results in changes in body type. Just because your macaca’s grandpapa might have had a teeny weeny doesn’t mean your wholesome, corn fed, suburban cul-de-sac raised American desi shares the predicament. Whew!

Discuss. [Previous Sepia jimmyhat analysis here.]

444 thoughts on “Oh, All Right. But You Asked For It

  1. Gee, this internet site says the average indian has an IQ of 80, which means they are below the normal intelligence value. Gosh, I think they are right. I’m not going to, oh, check with my own family and the people around me. I’d rather just believe any old bs that makes me inferior to other people. That’s the ticket. . Oh and plus, this one study, said that desi men have small wankers. And oh, that one author, he said colonialism was good for India.

  2. Before Razib jumps all over my ass, I want to also say, a scientific study that proves racial or ethnic differences has to have a rigorous standard of proof and multiple replicatable corrolative studies before anyone should believe it.

  3. i’ll go out on a limb here … my N>far enough above 10, with 6 being indians (of different locations/caste/etc) . each one of them had tiny, TINY penises — i am talking 2 inches or less, erect. i once encountered a white man with a similar problem — he was the smallest i’ve ever seen. sure, you can give the whole “size doesn’t matter, it’s what you do with it” but there really is not much you can do with a micropenis. i know my sample size is small, but i also can’t believe that i would be so unlucky with my own men. it’s a bit depressing, to be honest … but that just means i’m all the more eager to find the man who finally shatters this trend … but, when i read stuff like this bbc article and recall my own bad size experiences, it does make hm go hmm. [for the record -- the largest was east asian so there's one stereotype out the door for me]

  4. Micropenis? We’ve gone way beyond small now, that’s got to be a health problem right there. I think you’re just really unlucky Mili. This is getting a long in the tooth for me.

    I sincerely think this study is bullcrap, and its been sloppily proven in this thread that by the same sort of “study” american men and indian men supposedly have genitals from 5 to 6 inches. Take that for what its worth I suppose.

    The fact this topic was momentarily so popular says to me, it was time to gather round an old stereotype/racist dynamic and give it new life. Maybe a new generation had forgotten to consider Desi and Chinese people inferior, and there had to be someone to remind everybody?

    Individual ancedotes go so far. I’ve been with woman (or women I won’t say) who have themselves dated guys from many different ethnicities, and…well, I am confortably not in the low range. There. After all that.

  5. but there really is not much you can do with a micropenis. i know my sample size is small, but i also can’t believe that i would be so unlucky with my own men.

    I smelleth a troll. EVERY desi guy this person has been with had a “micropenis”? How does one find SIX men who each have that in common?

  6. I didn’t really pay that much attention to this issue until now, sort of took it as a joke or something, but I JUST SAW JAY LENO make a wisecrack about it a few minutes ago on his show…first he mentioned the results of the study and then said something to the effect of “you might want to mention this next time someone at tech support gets snippy with you”. THAT SUCKS! Now I’m pissed. It took something like humiliation of our people at a NATIONAL level to make me stop and think about my opinion about this whole thing. I agree with Sahej, I doubt the research here is beyond reproach. This is pure bullshit. Who funded this study and why? If any of you had seen Leno say that joke, you’d be pissed too. If I do a study that claims to show that (for example) African people are less intelligent than Europeans, is Jay Leno going to make a joke about it on TV? This is a public image disaster for us. But there’s nothing we can really do about it now.

  7. I smelleth a troll. EVERY desi guy this person has been with had a “micropenis”? How does one find SIX men who each have that in common?

    Perhaps she knoweth not what an erect penis is? I know, I know, there are some women who don’t manage to excite any guy… even a desi fob type (snarrrrk).

    Anyway, the pathetic thing is that people (starting from the venerable BBC, no less) were so eager to present it as a racial/national generalization.

    60% of Indian men below average? Assuming the average is Caucasian, it means that 50% of Caucasian men are below average.

    Of course, nobody presents it that way, it is presented purely as “Indian men have tiny…”

    Anyway, I’m still trying to come up with a few good comebacks to anybody who tries to one-up me with this. Just to be mentally prepared. Any ideas?

  8. Come on guys. Public image disaster? ‘Mentally prepared’? The willie doth not the man make.

  9. “I smelleth a troll. EVERY desi guy this person has been with had a “micropenis”? How does one find SIX men who each have that in common?”

    See, this is what gets me. 6 guys, all way under average, and the only response is that I’m a troll? Or that I don’t know what an erect penis is? snort Good lord, I might as well not take my chances on Indian guys if this is the sort of defensiveness or dismissiveness that accompanies the penis, no matter what size.

  10. See, this is what gets me. 6 guys, all way under average, and the only response is that I’m a troll? Or that I don’t know what an erect penis is? *snort* Good lord, I might as well not take my chances on Indian guys if this is the sort of defensiveness or dismissiveness that accompanies the penis, no matter what size.

    Good idea….and while your at it improving your ‘n’, I hope you have better luck dogdging micropenis’. As you stated, you should start with the east sample sample.

  11. Milli, allow me to invite you to an updated version of the old nursery dare: “I’ll show mine if you show yours.”

  12. Amitabh @ 357,

    I would not make much of Leno’s comment. I find him routinely cracking sexist/racist jokes – Consider for example his particular liking for women ‘catfights’ – I have stopped watching him for this reason.

  13. this is the sort of defensiveness or dismissiveness that accompanies the penis,

    Penis-defensiveness: Not a characteristic unique to Indian guys, I’m afraid. Try the next non-Indian dude you’re with about his ‘micropenis’ and see the amount of lovin’ you get in return.

    But really, if 6 out of 10 Indian guys are short, I’m guessing you’re in luck on the next one :D

  14. Who sets the international standards, I’d like her job!

    I know, Cinnamon Rani, imagine having that job title on your passport…International Penis Standards Officer… ;)

    Poor Indian guys, always being beaten down and emasculated by everyone from their own womenfolk to the Man. If the survey was in Bombay as someone said though, then Siddhartha’s point about different local environmental factors is important. Pollution? Stress? Overwork?…

    There must be a reason all those white hippie ladies go to Goa, maybe all the talent’s down south?…

    This is a public image disaster for us. But there’s nothing we can really do about it now.

    I love it how we need to mount a Positive Penis PR campaign now. On the bright side, having the opposite stereotype hasn’t really helped African American men do better in those other areas of life like health, education and average income. Remember ‘White Chicks’ where the blonde girl’s in the wheelchair because she had sex with a black guy? I wouldn’t want that stereotype either.

    I think we could argue (Razib, I know you’ve admitted to giant cock-ness publicly, but could use your help with statistics here), that since we make up a bigger proportion of the world’s population, that condoms are too big, and that Indian and Asian men aren’t the problem? Indian and Chinese men make up 1/3 of the world’s male population, and condoms weren’t socially acceptible or readily available or many in these countries till recently. So maybe the condom needs a makeover, because I guess according to the world’s population the ‘average’ size is smaller than condom sizes because condom sizes are based on the western market.

    Either way it’s funny to see very educated males reacting to all of this in all those predictable ways :) If someone said my boobies were too small I probably wouldn’t care, or at least not as much as some of the PR-campaign planners. How many people were surveyed, like 1,000? They survey more people when asking them ridiculous questions like whether man really landed on the moon. Don’t let the myth become a reality, boys :)

  15. Tash,

    You’ve accepted the paradigm and are coming up with reasons Desi men have smaller than average lunds. There’s almost no reason to accept that contention based on this study. Before you start explaining the findings based on pollution or stress, you’d need to know if the findings are correct. But I grant you, even before this study, the stereotype of indian men had been that we are somehow lesser men, and this article fits into that. Its not about the Man or “our women” beating us down. There is a dynamic that plays out though, and its one in which asian men are considered less masculine. I suggest its a racist dynamic that has little to do with reality, as most racist dynamics don’t.

    Amitabh, I think this kind of joke would’ve been made before, its the same kind of joke that gets made periodically. I think we’d be fooling ourselves to think that this kind of joke is something new.

  16. The shock here is that I think we desi thought the time had passed when we were going to have to operate under such stereotypes. The generation coming to age now in the US is the most diverse in the history of the country, and I think sometimes we forget older generations are still locked into different paradigms; ones that find such kinds of stereotypes funny and relevent.

  17. Based on comments made on Sepia Mutiny, and other sources I have put together an analysis of this entire issue! This analysis of this issue draws from analysis made on this comment page, and external sources. I hope that the “intellectual skeptics” who actually have no balls when they are not on the internet challenge and question this analysis for self-serving ego and self-esteem purposes or to try to impress the female/male desi bloggers like a kutha/kuthi and instead of actually using their brains and “cyber courage” and start questioning and challenging the BBC bullshit! In other words don’t challenge me, I’m not your enemy! And for some reason I think that there will be one damn fool that will try to play “devils advocate” and questions both sides, don’t be an ass! Anyways here it is. Once again all I did was extract and put together people’s comments and other sources to analyze this article and the findings. Big up to Sahej and other academic sources. And also reference of the shameful, ridiculous BBC article is now on Wikipedia, search “penis size” and you’ll see. Can anyone add/change the analysis to that wikipedia article by adding to it THE WHOLE TRUTH giving refernce to the Slate.com article? Anyways here is the analysis. I suggest that people copy this analysis and email it too everyone they know!!! EVERYONE!!!! Including the Sepia Mutiny bloggers who will hopefully make another blog about this article revealing the WHOLE TRUTH. In hope that this analysis that all have created will act as some sort of resistance (no matter how big or small) to the BBC bullshit that has now been spread like the smell of tharka on Saturday Night Live and Jay Leno. Here it is…

    ANALYSIS OF THE BBC ARTICLE

    Upon closer analysis, this article uses facts to create a twisted tale. This article is pretty much “post-colonial subjugation through emasculation (Sepia Mutiny)” a possible manifestation of racism. It is actually better to analyze the article first and you will find that the article, like most western white media, illustrated the facts to put a negative spin on “other racialized bodies” and in this case the target is South Asian men:

    Another article that specified the study (the Slate article) stated that, “As per international standards, most condoms are 150 mm to 180 mm (5.9 to 7 inches) in length and 44 to 56 mm (1.70 to 2 inches) in width. But data collected in Mumbai till 2001 showed that 60% of the participants measured 126 to 156 mm (4.96 to 6.14 inches) in length and 30% between 100 and 125 mm (3.93 to 4.92 inches). ” Adding to this, many studies (in which urologist or other researchers studying the male penis, measured the subjects themselves with a measuring tape as opposed to the self-measurement method done by participants in the Kinsey institute surveys and other penis size surveys) such as the studies done by the American Journal of Urology, International Journal of Impotence Research, LifeStyles Condoms on penis size indicated that contrary to the popular myth of an average penis size being 7 to 8 inches the average human male penis size is 5 to 6 inches. In light of those facts, that means according to the very own studies and findings of the Indian Council of Medical Research, most Indian men in Mumbai are within the average penis size. (If you look up sizes on the internet there are still many who use the flawed Kinsey measurements and methods and contend that the averages range from 6-8 inches but academic sources state otherwise. Now it is also important to note that even the considered “average” is flawed in many respects but that is another issue entirely.

    In regards to this study, how is this any different from what the Lifestyle Condom Survey of Americans concluded back in 2001? A study by Lifestyles Condom Co. in 2001 (http://www.free-condom-stuff.com/education/research.htm) indicated that about two-thirds of the 300 college-aged American males ranged from between 5.1 and 6.2 inches. We can come to the same conclusions about Americans: “Condoms made according to international sizes are too large for a majority of Americans (66% to be exact).” Or “Condoms designed to meet international size specifications are too big for many American men as their penises fall short of what manufacturers had anticipated.” Or “Initial findings of a Lifestyle Condoms Co penis survey revealed that 66 percent of American men on spring break in Cancun had penises about 2.4 cm (one inch) shorter than those condoms catered for.”

    And the BBC article failed to note that in the study that, “the failure rate was lower in clinical trials, and many complaints were about tearing, not slippage, so the main problem is proper use, not size (slate.com).” Adding to this the average human male penis size is 5 to 6 inches and the article stated that 60% of the Indian men were in this range; it may be that the international sizes of condoms are flawed themselves. Skeptics of this article also question if they have done studies in other countries, including the ones that “set” the international standards, to see how many men actually “measure up” to those standards? And how is this international standard set?

    AND, they selected over 1200 males which were actually 1500 males and all of these males were from Mumbai (and some from Delhi alone). The article says “the scientists even checked their sample was representative of India as a whole” but failed to mention that the men surveyed were from Mumbai (and some from Delhi) ALONE. From the analysis of people in one state they generalized an entire country and an entire population! That may be the average for Mumbai alone not all of India. India has over 20 states and many union territories and contrary to popular belief India has a great deal of diversity. That is like surveying the size of shlongs in the New York State finding the average in New York and stating that, the average shlong size of adult males in New York is the average shlong size for all adult males in America even though there are over 40 different areas (States) in America. Another issue raised was that since an estimated 350-400 million people in India are below the poverty line, this article never discussed the issues of malnutrition in India along with the pollution in Mumbai in regards to human development as a factor and as a variable.

    Some people called this article reckless journalism because it doesn’t tell the whole truth and uses the facts to create a negative spin. This article could have instead focused on the AIDS epidemic in India and discuss how to get Indian men to use condoms rather than pushing very sensitive buttons. I think that this contaminated article is really sad because now it will be added to the many, many, many negative stereotypes made about Indian people in India and even abroad. And the more negative stereotypes of Indian people, regardless of who it is about whether males, females, in the end it still hurts all the same.

    So my suggestion is if someone tries to stereotype or ridicule you because you are brown or Desi based on your “size” challenge them intellectually, or (excuse the vulgarity) pull out your shlong slap them in the face with it and measure it on their damn forehead (once again you have my sincerest apologies for this vulgarity but there is only a certain amount of abusive media that we can all take).

  18. Either way it’s funny to see very educated males reacting to all of this in all those predictable ways :) If someone said my boobies were too small I probably wouldn’t care

    Well, boobies are a secondary sexual characteristic, whereas…Also, boob size is pretty apparent for an external observer, whereas…

    I think it is a primal reaction, and needs a whole lot of thinking to overcome these issues of self-esteem. (I should know, since I meet almost no standard of male beauty in the US :) ). Sexual anxiety is quite independent of education, as are stereotypes and prejudices. Otherwise there would be no glass ceilings for anyone in society.

    As Sahej said, what I found more shocking was how a respectable media channel (the beeb, not some random tabloid) casually presented the study as a gross racial generalization, with no responsible fact-checking(!!) that such an article should entail in today’s usually-PC society. I just think that’s so depressing.

    My usual reaction is to simply ignore stereotypes and do and be what I want to. But stuff like this in media makes doing that just a little bit more difficult everytime.

  19. Donald Turnip surveyed his plush suite in downtown Montana with satisfaction. “Boys and toys” he said “you have come a long way as apprentices and are ready for the final shaolin showdown. When I first came to this hallowed puritanical country from Usilampatti, I dreamt that I would make love to the women here in Victorian style. I came armed with verse and prose from D.H Lawrence, James Joyce and Marcel Proust. I quoted from Gray’s anatomy, Masters and Johnsons, and left the Kama Sutra out because…well…that would have fit the stereotype. Sure, I was endowed in an average fashion, in a manner of speaking. No dice. We live in a time that leaves nothing to the imagination and my strange 19th century manner of making love was tit-tered at and some even snarkily whispered evil rumors behind my back, Jay Fenol included. I put out in a vaccuum. The secret to success therefore is not in the size of your pen-is the size of your wallet. Oh! dont get me wrong, the sword is mightier than the pen, especially when unsheathed but there are other ways. Remember Enter the Dragon and the array of devious hands. Now go array yourself with artificial erotic devices, become an investment banker with a summer house in Martha’s and you will never again lack for female company while counting your beans. Merry Christmas and forget about the ghost of Christmas past, present or future, Go screwdge!”

    Disclaimer : all characters are fictional and do not correspond to any real person living or dead, especially dead.

  20. On second thoughts, fuck it all. I’ve done well enough so far with my current international-average-sized equipment…and hopefully will keep going that way. In any case, personality and confidence are what I have to rely on anyway.

    Thumbs down to the BBC. They’ve lost serious respect from me. I shall not look at this thread no mo’.

  21. This shit ain’t funny anymore…Mahesh (#372) spells it out nicely…but the damage is done…the public cares about the punchline, not the academic response. So, based on a flawed study, that would indict American men just as much as it does desis, we have the pleasure of getting to hear jokes about this on national, no, GLOBAL television. I wonder if Indian kids in school are getting teased about this. The BBC really let the ball drop on this one. Anyway, I don’t think there’s anything more at this point that’s useful to say about this so I’m out. Sahej, you’re right…if this study had been about Norwegians, I wouldn’t take the time to fact-check or verify the validity or methods of the study, I’d just be laughing at Norwegians.

  22. The Turnip,

    You’re peeking everyone’s curiosity now, what kind of pen do you wield? I wonder if it’s a fountain pen, one that you’d dip into an ink bottle gently and often.

  23. sic temper tyrannis@377: if the glove fits…! fountain pen? do you mean the old Pilot Pena type variety and Parker ink? gone are those days. Nowadays its all true type and Gothic. But I do like the imagery you have produced. It belongs to a gentler and kinder day.

  24. This news spread. Saturday Night Live and Jay Leno both took shots at Indian men. And just go onto yahoo.com and type in “Indian men have small penises” and you will see the millions of blogs in Canada and the US taking shots at ALL INDIAN MEN!!! Even racist comments questioning Indian masculinity in comparison to white masculinity. This some more bullshit… people spread analysis #372 to EVERYONE! I’m filled with rage and dismay! Fuck!

  25. Man, you guys are freaking out about this unnecessarily.

    It’s a silly story. Comedians are picking up on a silly story. That’s not unexpected. Racists are jumping on a silly story. That’s not unexpected either.

    But comedians will forget this for the next funny thing that comes along, and racists’ heads are filled with all sorts of idiotic and inaccurate information anyway. In a month or two very few people will remember this story. And if anyone DOES bring it up, you can throw that analysis at them to shut them up. Or (if they are hott) just say “well, why don’t you see for yourself” and then leer at them.

  26. Guys, of course the way this was spun was racist, and lots of racist white people jeered at it on blogs or elsewhere. But what it uncovered was pre-existent prejudices, which suggests a good deal of hatred was waiting there festering, waiting for the right thing to latch onto and find expression and I will be honest with you — sometimes it is good to be reminded that you are disliked or hated. So you know exactly where you stand.

  27. sometimes it is good to be reminded that you are disliked or hated. So you know exactly where you stand.

    Oh, when you put it that way…

  28. It is truly eyebrow-raising — and possibly an indication of the different dynamics regarding South Asians on the two sides of the Atlantic — that this issue has become so high-profile in the US that it’s been referenced on SNL and Jay Leno, yet nothing on similar scale has happened here in the UK, the actual home of the BBC…..

    …..And, of course, the country where South Asians comprise the biggest non-white population.

  29. It is truly eyebrow-raising — and possibly an indication of the different dynamics regarding South Asians on the two sides of the Atlantic — that this issue has become so high-profile in the US that it’s been referenced on SNL and Jay Leno, yet nothing on similar scale has happened here in the UK, the actual home of the BBC…..

    There pre-existing discourse here about phallus dimensions – alleged white inferiority in relation to blacks; and thus size jokes, with all their attendant anxieties, always get a good laugh.

  30. You’re probably right, Razib ;)

    It would also be a much more explosive (and, considering recent/current events in the UK, politically-sensitive) issue here. However, as I’ve mentioned a couple of times previously on SM, on the whole the mainstream British media has significantly moved on when it comes to dealing with racially-sensitive issues, especially about South Asians. I could imagine some mainstream British comedians using this to make Leno-like jokes at our expense back in the 80s, but not now.

    It’s very ironic that all this would still be acceptable in the US, the home of political correctness. Oh, the oppression ! oh, the objectification ! Oh, the exotificationalizationism !

    Okay, joking aside, look at it this way. The average white American is a lot taller than the average Indian “back home”. However, both fall into almost-similar ranges regarding penis size. Extrapolate this line of thought and you’ll reach certain conclusions. This is something else which can be added to the ammunition collated in post #372.

    So don’t worry, folks. grins wryly

  31. It’s very ironic that all this would still be acceptable in the US, the home of political correctness. Oh, the oppression ! oh, the objectification ! Oh, the exotificationalizationism !

    not all sensitivities are created equal. look at the way the liberal media had no problem commenting on bobby jindal’s ‘dark skin’ and ‘black hair’ in 2003 vs. how they would treat an african american politican. overall i think it is a good thing, i think hyper-sensitivity is good for ‘community leaders’ or some of the ghetto-lovin’-idealists (bidismoker), but not as cool for those of us who make our way in a world that is going to be non-brown. the taunting of white males in pop culture is in part an admission that they are privileged and have ‘made it.’

  32. razib,

    All that was important was conveyed in the seminal post. Whatever else that followed was circumlocution purely for the amusement of others. Wait another day and all the vigor that once was will return with great virility and firmness of conviction.

  33. not all sensitivities are created equal. look at the way the liberal media had no problem commenting on bobby jindal’s ‘dark skin’ and ‘black hair’ in 2003 vs. how they would treat an african american politican.

    That’s an interesting comment. Obviously the sensitivity pertaining to African Americans is because of the legacy of slavery — which more-or-less corresponds to the sensitivity regarding West Indians, Africans and South Asians in the UK as a result of both slavery (in relation to the first two groups) and colonialism (affecting all three groups).

    So does this mean that racist remarks — about penis size or anything else — about Chinese people or (particularly) Hispanics are acceptable in mainstream American culture these days ? Indeed, if a similar survey was conducted on Latin Americans, would SNL & Jay Leno make jokes about it ? Would they be able to get away with it if they did ?

  34. It all depends on what you’re being hyper-sensitive about.

    I don’t give two shits about this study both because it’s poorly done, it certainly does NOT apply to me, and it’s just such a silly story that nobody whose opinion I would care about will remember it in a few months. It’s just fluff.

    But there are some elements of racism/nationalism that are more annoying than others. I get upset when my behavior or values are stereotyped. You can give that a label if you want (“exotification”, etc…), and it might well fit, but I think everyone gets it even without one.

  35. No, because Indians are perceived as just another group of immigrants while the other groups you’ve mentioned all have histories of exploitation and struggle.

  36. razib,

    Just to allay any confusion, my comment was in response to your earlier post:

    wow, i wuz expecting 1,000 comments by now. this thread really climaxed and ran out of steam.

    Jai Singh,

    I think the penchant comedians have with Indians is that we have been made fun of decades, since Apu and even earlier with our accent in films like Gandhi and such, and much, much earlier with actors wearing brownface. In popular imagination, we’re the butt of jokes. Whether or not this is a good thing is up for debate, but among the “heartland” Americans who have never seen an Indian in real life, we’re Apu. Folks in the UK are different because almost every one of them has at least met one Indian in their life.

  37. Jai Singh : High profile issue in the US? Huh? A study about penis sizes is always pretty good comedy fodder, especially for the comedy-lame, like Leno and SNL. Give me Craig Ferguson over Leno any day of the week. Wait, did he do a joke about the study?

    Anyway, did you all read the comments to the Gawker post? Everyone was all, like, Neel Shah is hawt, I don’t care about the study. So, see? All you need to do is be cute……problem solved.

  38. Folks in the UK are different because almost every one of them has at least met one Indian in their life.

    please remember than the UK is 91% non-hispanic white, and there is a lot of residential segregation (e.g., brownz live in london and north english urban towns). the USA is 69% non-hispanic white. so i’m not sure that i buy it (UK is 4.4% brown, vs. somewhat less than 1% in the USA).

  39. Actually, Neal’s point is salient. Immigrant humor has always been pretty standard for the US, and often it was of a benign sort (and a not so benign sort). Remember all those Scandanavian jokes in Sonja Henje skating comedies from the thirties? Come on guys, you don’t remember?

  40. skandinavians are hawt. immigrant human changes. the jokes about italian americans are descended in direct line from perceptions they were illiterate and criminal peasants. the former though are generally less innocuous than the latter in terms of stereotypes.