398 thoughts on “Live Blogging the 2006 midterm election results”

1. You know sahej, if things really were better under Saddam, then Iraqis have no business hanging him. They should re-instate him. It’s the only logical policy.

   Do you really think if the US leaves precipitously, all the violence will stop on a dime? Either way, lots of people were dying, and it wasn’t our fault.

2. Yeah– reading any of the thousands of studies your own subordinates produced which told you that breaking Iraq = civil war.

3. Abhi:

   This is unrelated to this thread but I find that the Indians and ex-Indian citizens (the non-nutty ones) here are far too gracious of the critiquing of things Indian. I think they ought to pull the same “my country” attitude. A much better idea would be for them to start blogs of their own, don’t you think? There is no monopoly on thought here. This blog will always be from an American perspective since we are all American. Likewise there are plenty of blogs in India that “pull” the same type of thing you want to see more of.

   So you want to criticize India without being inconvenienced by Indians? I think, certainly hope, that you are still riled over Kritic’s baiting, and taking it out on tef. Kritic was just being a troll and unfortunately you took his bait. Believe me, its best to just ignore him.

4. “A much better idea would be for them to start blogs of their own, don’t you think? There is no monopoly on thought here.”

   I agree with post 298. Honestly, I’m a little disappointed in your statement Abhi. I thought the whole point of this blog was to open discussion on important topics to South Asians. If you are discussing South Asian politics why shouldn’t citizens of those countries be able to disagree with you and engage in discussion? If everyone goes and starts their own blog everytime they disagree with someone, where is the discussion? What is the point of allowing comments?

5. lots of people were dying, and it wasn’t our fault.

   Just like leaving a kid near a hot stove isn’t our fault. We didn’t know!

6. What is the point of allowing comments?

   Guys, Abhi’s not saying don’t comment. He’s saying don’t tell him what to write; don’t pen 10 page essays as comments – those belong on your own blog; don’t harangue him to change his cultural POV to that of someone raised in India; don’t be a troll.

7. “Because bloggers HATE when people tell them what to blog about/how to blog. This is a universal rule that you will not get unless you become a blogger. Go start your own blog is our standard response.”

   as i said, i can understand the sentiment when people TELL you what and how to blog. i agree wholeheartedly. but i was referring to your reaction to tef’s advice to indians/other south asian citizens to RESPOND more critically and vociferously to things already written on your blog about South Asia (not the diaspora). just checking that someone who happens to vociferously disagree with something you may have written about South Asia from an American point of view would not be told to go start their own blog.

8. i.e. the rival sectarian factions who would rather let blood than work together. If they would just stop blowing each other up, well, they’re would be less people being blown up.

   One fine day the shia and Sunnis of intergrated neighbourhood got up and started killing each other. Those savages.

   The civilizing mission continues ….

9. So the best answer to that is Shock and Awe, and 100,000 plus soldiers with gun, tanks, and missles. I’m sorry I don’t see this an inevitable and I don’t see this as the least worst option

10. point understood.

    It just seems that sometimes people who are the citizens of the South Asian countries being discussed and have a different POV than noncitizens of those countries or try speaking up for themselves because POVs seem to be imposed on them, they are told to go “elsewhere.”

11. i.e. the rival sectarian factions who would rather let blood than work together. If they would just stop blowing each other up, well, they’re would be less people being blown up.

    The occupying power has the duty and the responsibilty to provide security for the occupied. Forget Iraq, remove the government/police power structure from LA and watch the city go up in flames.

12. to everyone who is sooo disappointed in abhi and the mutiny, which always was and will be a place where respectful discussion is cherished and encouraged, remember he was responding to outrageous bait like this:

    One hopes that this means that there will be far fewer posts here about other people’s countries,you know, countries that one has never been a citizen of, countries in which one has spent less than three years, countries one has no interest in moving to(Bidismoker exclusion!).

    oh, word? ONE HOPES?? do NOT tell me what i should or should not write about or how i need to pass some BULLSHIT litmus test before i’m allowed to post about somewhere else. if i feel like posting about india, pakistan, sri lanka or the 100-acre-fucking wood, i will, whether or not i have or ever intend to live there.

    we’re all tired and it shows. abhi’s larger point was, if you think something is missing in the blogosphere, blog it yourself instead of being passive and/or ordering someone else to do it. my point is: don’t tread on me (and what i post).

13. You know sahej, if things really were better under Saddam, then Iraqis have no business hanging him. They should re-instate him. It’s the only logical policy. Do you really think if the US leaves precipitously, all the violence will stop on a dime? Either way, lots of people were dying, and it wasn’t our fault.

    So the only way to change from a despot to a functional form of government is to have hundreds of thousands of troops invade a country, bomd its infrastructure, dehumanize an entire generation of people to where it seems like its got to be commonplace to see headless bodies on the streets in some areas. That’s the “least worst” option? A despot that was given support by the way in earlier times.

    And you still have not answered the question of why the metrics for why we are there change every so often.

14. to everyone who is sooo disappointed in abhi and the mutiny, which always was and will be a place where respectful discussion is cherished and encouraged, remember he was responding to outrageous bait like this: One hopes that this means that there will be far fewer posts here about other people’s countries,you know, countries that one has never been a citizen of, countries in which one has spent less than three years, countries one has no interest in moving to(Bidismoker exclusion!).

    It all started in #251. Someone was being a deliberate troll and everything else is a chain reaction. Lets get over it and move on.

15. MD:

    Rehashing the Iraq debate of the past (what we should have done/should not) is going to give you a headache particularly with those focused in on what Bush has/hasn’t done. At this point, those arguments won’t give us any value. Those still arguing about the past haven’t proposed any new strategy to gain positive territory (both, the right and left).

    Having read some opinions around, if it were upto me, I’d put the whole AO (Iraq) under the specific command of US Army Special Forces (Green Berets), not even SOCOM (which is dominated by Rangers and SEALS at high officer level positions). Kinda like the SOG group of Vietnam (Green Berets and local forces who operated independently of big Army with great success, unfortunately Big Army never took a page from their techniques and skills to do much). All infantry, support, Airforce, Marines, Navy etc. would be designed around to support the mission of Army Special Forces for unconventional warfare and Foreign Internal Defense missions (UW/FID). Unforntuately, for the big generals and politicans, unconventional warfare isn’t glorious nor sexy, it is a long and hard job that requires very skilled people trained in the languages, culture, and art of negotiation.

    Special Forces, PSYOPS, Civil Affairs running the show with whatever manpower support that is needed from any combined arms teams (Infantry, logistics, military intelligence, armor, air support, etc) may help transistion things. Currently, our political and military strategy has become static in an environment where enemies and those vying for power locally adapt rapidly.

    Staying the course as is or pulling out completely are both bad options. Give the guys, who should have had the chance to run things to begin with, the opportunity to do so. Less people will die compared to either situation (phased pull out or ‘staying the course’).

16. Yes, gujudude, I took sahej’s bait and I am sorry I did so, but I also think that you missed the point of what I was doing. My point is to underscore who is causing the violence and death. I still think that is a point worth making. You cannot make serious policy suggestions if you think the violence is only caused by the presence of Americans. That was my point, but your points are well taken.

17. If you think that was bait, thats insulting. You brought up this topic, and I was reacting to it. I think you should realize that quite a lot of people care about what’s going on there.

    Peace

18. “do NOT tell me what i should or should not write about or how i need to pass some BULLSHIT litmus test before i’m allowed to post about somewhere else. if i feel like posting about india, pakistan, sri lanka or the 100-acre-fucking wood, i will, whether or not i have or ever intend to live there.”

    exactly. sorry, last comment on this. to be fair, i think i’ve also seen comments (rare but they have popped up now and then) discounting or diminishing “FOB” or Indian points of view about something indian-american or south asian american or just plain american because they didn’t grow up here. the reverse also applies: they can also express their views about something that isn’t exactly their experience.

19. You also cannot make serious policy suggestions if you think the violence was not unleashed by the invasion (breaking the security apparatus). This was no surprise to anyone who read a damn thing about Iraq before the war.

20. Kush, I am not a fan of the Democratic isolationalist policies either. But I think at the moment the world needs in my opinion to not have any more imperialistic wars for OIL as admitted by Bush recently .

    Thats why I feel happy for the collosal defeat of Republicans and their stay the course policy. I personally cant understand how anyone can justify the carnage in Iraq on a human level. If the justification is being done politically to prove a point, than that is just beyond the pale, in my opinion.

    I am no fan of Dems with the crazy economic isolation also I cant understand and support the extreme liberal social policies too, but in my opinion we have bigger problems right now.

21. Gujudude,

    Look what happened in Vietnam. Respectfully, you are missing complete sense of history. Don’t you see Vietnamization of Iraq – no replacement of Americans in Iraq at almost any level. Maybe, you are talking about neo-Lawrence of Arabias emerging from Americans there. I do see that happening either. They are not trained that way. For pete sake, most of them are active reserves.

    The only way it would have worked General MacArthur-Emperor Hirohito model in post WW 2 model, meaning thereby you keep the entire government, social, political structure intact, and change it step by step. Japan was made to undergo huge changes but in 6+ years with Emperor Hirohito’s blessing. True, Japan ~= (.notequal.) Iraq in fundamental ways.

    Let bygones be bygones.

    Some pan-Iraqi power structure and leaders need to be found asap.

22. One hopes that this means that there will be far fewer posts here about other people’s countries,you know, countries that one has never been a citizen of, countries in which one has spent less than three years, countries one has no interest in moving to(Bidismoker exclusion!).

    Whoa. A few people who like reading this blog (like me) don’t live in either the US or India…tef, I think you need to come breathe some calming air in the little land where the sheep run through the fields…

    who cares? This blog is FUN. It’s my FUN procrastination time… Once you make a FUN blog then people’s saffron balls will twitch enough to take them over to your ‘authentic’ side.

    I think the main problem from Indian-residing commenters is a lack of respect shown for other commenters for being too based in the west and what they see as being too focussed on it. Kinda hard not to be if you live here! It just equates to the ‘real’ Indians sounding like a bunch of nagging aunties telling people to be more this, or do more that, and nagging aunties are not fun…

    don’t turn things into an ‘us’ vs. ‘them’ battle, everyone knows aunties are famous for their guilt tripping skills and there are few places in the blogosphere where different views are as welcome as on this blog.

23. If you think that was bait, thats insulting. You brought up this topic, and I was reacting to it.

    check yourself– YOU weren’t the one who typed the bait and i didn’t bring up a damned thing. kindly get your facts straight. we are ALL reacting to EVERYTHING.

24. GujuDude:

    Good points. But I think communicating with the American people is equally important. Rumsfeld’s press briefings were notorious for him to trying to show off how much better he is than the rest of us. The contempt was clear. They need to communicate some of the benchmarks and where Iraqis are on a regular basis. Some details that are considered strategic can be left out but tactical ones can be shared. Instead of engaging intelligent people they use that idiot, Bill O’ Reilly’s tactics and ask people if they really want to win in Iraq. I was surprised to see Lynne Cheney, an otherwise intelligent person, resort to such tactics.

    And if the president can fire Condi that would be helpful too. Most incompetent NSA and now the most useless Secretary of State.

25. Rumsfeld’s press briefings were notorious for him to trying to show off how much better he is than the rest of us Nara,

    Most of American Secretary of Defense are very arrogant. It is part of the job, and survival. Pentagon will eat you alive, and you are not one

26. You cannot make serious policy suggestions if you think the violence is only caused by the presence of Americans. That was my point, but your points are well taken

    Agreed. Violence in the region has existed and manifested itself in different forms – Iran/Iraq war (most weapons used, contrary to conventional wisdom, were actually French and Russian); suppression of the Kurds by Shias, Arab Sunnis, and Turks; Saddam’s rise to power; WWII…… most of which has far stronger local roots.

    Ultimately, Iraq as one country may not be a feasible solution. One has to consider that. In the meantime till people make the transition to a stable and non-violent power structure (Federal union, independent states, etc), a dynamic capacity to conduct unconventional warfare is needed from our side to gain lost time and control, salvage the situation (not our pride, own political parties) to the best outcome possible.

    Sadly, I don’t think ANY side gets that.

27. Why does everyone consider the India-US nuclear deal an “Indian” issue? In almost every way, it is more of an American policy concern than an Indian one, because it is a real policy manouvre for the U.S. and a symoblic gesture of goodwill for India.

    If you don’t care about this aspect of policy, so be it, but don’t paint it as not relevant to the U.S. because it clearly is – over the long run, more so than Iraq, etc.

28. Anna,

    Unless you are MD, this is what I was responding to:

    Yes, gujudude, I took sahej’s bait and I am sorry I did so, but I also think that you missed the point of what I was doing. My point is to underscore who is causing the violence and death. I still think that is a point worth making. You cannot make serious policy suggestions if you think the violence is only caused by the presence of Americans. That was my point, but your points are well taken.

    To which I said, my comment was not bait as I feel as strongly as MD does about these issues.

    Check what?

29. Why does everyone consider the India-US nuclear deal an “Indian” issue? In almost every way, it is more of an American policy concern than an Indian one, because it is a real policy manouvre for the U.S. and a symoblic gesture of goodwill for India.

    Agreed. Its largely a symbolic gesture for India. If this doesn’t go through, they’ll probably find another.

30. To which I said, my comment was not bait as I feel as strongly as MD does about these issues. Check what?

    Nothing. I thought you were talking to me and I’m sorry for the mistake.

31. …brown.

32. Rumsfeld’s press briefings were notorious for him to trying to show off how much better he is than the rest of us

    He pissed off a lot military personnel who used to support him with that “As you know, you have to go to war with the Army you have” comment.

33. Its all good. I actually am a little crabby today, I think all this democracy went to my head a bit

34. Most of American Secretary of Defense are very arrogant. It is part of the job, and survival. Pentagon will eat you alive, and you are not one

    I remember William Cohen and Les Aspin. I don’t think they were arrogant. Cheney as far as I remember during the Gulf war handled his press briefings with a lot more humility. A book (Vice) that I read recently said many army personnel still think he was one of the best. I was not in this country when Weinberger was the sec of def.

    I do not get the survival part. You think if the civilian leadeship shows weakness, the military will take control. Arrogance with the press and the public is different from being strong with the military.

    You may be right. My impression is not based on sound research. I have heard that Robert McNamara was also notorious for looking down at people.

35. Agreed. Its largely a symbolic gesture for India. If this doesn’t go through, they’ll probably find another.

    Indian Americans are sadly by and large no different from most other Americans – they tend to think the world revolves them and their aspirationally imperial nation

36. I do not get the survival part. You think if the civilian leadeship shows weakness, the military will take control. Arrogance with the press and the public is different from being strong with the military. You may be right. My impression is not based on sound research. I have heard that Robert McNamara was also notorious for looking down at people.

    Not to get in endless debate, I think a civilian head has to assert and show his authority. Some of them do in more outwardly way, and some don’t.

    It is not military will take control or anything like that, it is just you might loose their respect and credibility. Also, they are always multiple factions jokeying for power within Pentagon.

    PS: There was in 2001, NYT Sunday Times article on Secretary of Defense, and sink-or-swim job it is. That is where my “survival” came from. Part of Rumsfeld arrogance is his strength. I do not think he is bothered, he is eternal insider in the beltway. Wasn’t he Secretary of Navy in Nixon administration? He is 70+ and mega-rich.

37. The job of the SECDEF is to assert civilian control over the military as directed by the President. Sometimes it works out, sometimes it doesn’t. The responsibility is the President’s who sets policy. The military is a tool of international policy, just as the State Department, Commerce, and whichever other departments interact on an international stage. SECDEF and Military aren’t chummy chummy all the time.

    A civilian coming in and asserting control of the military isn’t an easy job. Having said that, the job still needs to be done. Cheney was considered a good SECDEF. It was him who brought in John Boyd to consult for the ground battle in Desert Storm. Good ol Stormin Normin wanted to go right up the middle, through Kuwait, in full force. It got shot down by John Boyd (modern day equivalent strategist of Sun Tzu, Von Clausewitz) who managed to come up with the idea of the USMC feinting up the middle while most of the forces raced through the desert in a fast maneuver (left hook/hail mary) around the Republican Guard divisions. Cheney had once listened to Boyd give a lecture on the OODA loop and was very impressed. (Refernce: John Boyd the fighter pilot who changed the art of warfare by Robert Coram).

    McNamara is probably the most hated one though and shades of it appear with Rumsfeld (though not even close in the level of it).

38. I disagree with the above representaions of what I was trying to say.

    I admire the work put into this blog. I find the site very compelling. But I assume you would be happy to see me leave. I shall go then.

    My mangled message to Indians, further coded, to alienate and otherize the 2genner south asians: Yahaan peh logaan front-foot peh khelre, apun ka geeround meh aake, front-foot peh khelre? Bounceraan dalo! Bounceraan!

39. My comment about Pelosi was directly inspired by timely discussion of Pelosi. Someone asked if holding her up as a bogeyman was sexist, I think it’s anti-coastist. I’m enjoying wins preciesly b/c I was so annoyed that Pelosi was being held up as a bogeyman for no other reason than representing the great city of San Francisco–and that strategy failed miserably. Huzzahs are sweeter when you remember the preceeding bitters.

40. Yahaan peh logaan front-foot peh khelre, apun ka geeround meh aake, front-foot peh khelre? Bounceraan dalo! Bounceraan!

    bouncerran nahi – seedha fulltoss sar pe dalo 🙂

41. I admire the work put into this blog. I find the site very compelling. But I assume you would be happy to see me leave. I shall go then.

    No, I don’t have much of a problem with your comments. I have a problem with Kritic who you chose to defend here without understanding his commenting history.

42. Pelosi was being held up as a bogeyman for no other reason than representing the great city of San Francisco

    I am sure that San Francisco is a great city (glad I live on the other end :))

    But Pelosi has a track record and she in fact is very liberal. just like democrats used the President as bogeyman, the republicans have a right to do what they did. Unfortunately, or fortunately, it did not work.

43. Nancy Pelosi scares me.

    Not because she’s from San Fran or that she’s a woman.

    She has the crazy looking eyes, you know, the Jennifer ‘Runaway Bride’ Wilbanks type of crazy look in her eye.

    Shudders

44. I think what’s plenty interesting is the marked effect that the GOP old guard (publicly, James Baker) is beginning to have on this Administration, ie. recanting the ‘stay the course’ mantra, Rumsfeld resigning, Robert Gates reemergence, taking the mikes away from Perle, Frum, and their brand of conservatism.

    If I was a Republican, I would be plenty happy that some of the fringe elements are fading. If I was a Democrat, I’d be plenty worried about a GOP attempt to move towards the center for 2008. The fringe, like Senator Macaca, is good for business no?

45. Ironic that Ortega returns to office at the same time Gates returns to Washington:

    In his career, Mr Gates also served on the White House national security staff in 1974-79, and became deputy national security adviser to the first President Bush before he became CIA director. But the most controversial moment in his career was during his period as deputy director, intelligence of the CIA between 1982-86, becoming deputy director of the CIA in April 1986 and acting director in 1986. As such, he was in a position to know about the so-called Iran-Contra scandal, which involved the illegal diversion of funds from the sale of arms to Iran to fund the Contras, who were fighting against the left-wing Sandinistas who had taken power in Nicaragua. Mr Gates was investigated by the office of the independent counsel in 1991, but was never prosecuted for any offence.

46. Abhi,

    No I didn’t know the commenting history of Kritic. I am still holding on to the asymmetry of the criticism bit. Perhaps I should blog. : ) Thanks for your response.

    lord of war,

    bouncerran nahi – seedha fulltoss sar pe dalo 🙂

    That would not be cricket! : )

47. That would not be cricket! : )

    Douglas Jardine.. Bodyline 🙂

48. It’s over! Webb wins. The Dems take the Senate! So says the AP: http://www.breitbart.com/news/2006/11/08/D8L98BDO1.html

49. Woohoo!

50. T’is true!

    The Associated Press contacted election officials in all 134 localities where voting occurred, obtaining updated numbers Wednesday. About half the localities said they had completed their postelection canvassing and nearly all had counted outstanding absentees. Most were expected to be finished by Friday. The new AP count showed Webb with 1,172,538 votes and Allen with 1,165,302, a difference of 7,236. Virginia has had two statewide vote recounts in modern history, but both resulted in vote changes of no more than a few hundred votes. An adviser to Allen, speaking on condition of anonymity because his boss had not formally decided to end the campaign, said the senator wanted to wait until most of canvassing was completed before announcing his decision, possibly as early as Thursday evening. The adviser said that Allen was disinclined to request a recount if the final vote spread was similar to that of election night. The victory puts Sen. Harry Reid, D-Nev., in line to become Senate majority leader. He has led the Democrats since Tom Daschle, D-S.D., was defeated two years ago.[link]