Much like the girls on Sex and the City would get together to dish, my girls and I will get together and dish about the dilemmas of Dating while Desi. Yes, girls do talk, far more than we blog about. And Dating while Desi ain’t easy, as the mutiny has informed us on Sepia Destiny Part 1. In these talks, we girls will touch on questions such as, “Do you date desi only or non-desis or anyone but white boys? Do your parents sneak around behind your back with biodata and pictures? Do your parents give out your numbers to guys that call and don’t leave messages – from obscure area codes? Do your parents even know that you date? Where do you find desi guys that haven’t gone back to South Asia to get their bride already?” These questions (and more) are indicative to the plight of the single, 25 yr.+, independent-thinking desi girl and is why I love to find solidarity with my single desi sisters – whether over chai, or virtually by reading my favorite desi gal bloggers ( Rupa, TheBarMaid, Chick Pea, brimful, SP, to name a few).
Saturday night while I was surfing on YouTube alone in the North Dakota bunker, I came across this episode of Desi OC – after watching the video I thought to myself, maybe I’ve been playing the game all wrong…
The Desi OC episode above comes out of production company Raising Desi, and one of the film maker is Los Angeles comedian Tarun Shetty. (You may also recognize the gal pal from Timberlake’s Senorita music video.) All of Tarun’s addictive mini-movies are far more polished than the typical YouTube video, but the thing that struck me about this episode in particular were the rules they had for Dating while Desi. We all know the general “Dating Rules” — Wait three days before calling back, never talk politics or religion on a first date, and never say yes to a guy that asks you out the day of.
But I realize now after watching the video, that there are a whole different set of dating rules set aside for Dating while Desi. Who would have known? I certainly didn’t know the rules changed between dating desi, and dating non-desi. So, to summarize what I have learned so far…
Dating While Desi Rules (For Guys)
- If you get a desi girl’s number – three day rule is out. Call the next day if an ABCD girl. But if a FOB girl, you have to pace out with e-mails and phone calls.
- If she asks you what you do, where your family comes from and stuff, she’s no good. She’s grading you to see if you meets up to her social standards.
Dating While Desi Rules (For Girls)
- Make sure to make the guy chase you a little bit and space things out accordingly.
- Go to the bases three times slower with a desi guy than you would with a non-desi.
- Never tell a desi guy that you are really a doctor (or an engineer, or a lawyer). Instead, lie with a less ‘threatening’ career.
- Don’t date a jobless bum. Or desi doctors.
Maybe if I had known these rules, I could have figured out the desi dating game a lot sooner. Hence, I make an appeal to you, oh mutinous crew. Are there other rules to Dating while Desi that I don’t know about? Is it really harder to date us desi girls? (Not that dating you desi guys are any walks in the park.) Or as Tarun says in the video, “Desi girls are hard, man. Stick to dating goris…”
Let the Sepia Destiny virtual dish begin.
And yes non brown men generally don’t come attached with umbilicial cords.
This is exactly the BS I was talking about. Date/marry whoever you want to. I don’t give a rats arse why do you always justify your decision with all this make-believe.
Well isnt that intimidation? I have a simple requirement off the men I date. You better not wither in my presence and you better be able to keep up with the verbal repartee. And there are men that do meet those requirement but boy there are those that don’t.
A woman who has opinions is assumed by many desi boys to be someone “difficult”, “uncompromising”, “a liability” and it boils down to “well I cant take her home to mama with that mouth”. And if it smells like intimidation and looks like intimidation it must be.
.
Looks like a good plan to me Ven 🙂
Sorry don’t know how to sugarcoat it. It isn’t justification to date anyone else because I don’t. If I dated someone the last thing I would do is justify it to anyone. I’m not alone unfortunately in my thought process. Despite it I still love brown men and think there are still some that don’t come attached to their moms.
Ask the women for whom marriages and relationships have fallen apart because of the attachment. I don’t know how young or old you are but I’ve lost count of them. Go to your average generic Indian message board on the web and read some of the MIL woes…a vast majority of them stem from the man not being able to define his relationship with his wife from his mother and it’s possible its a Asian thing but it certainly ain’t a western thing.
Boy – those are a mountain of issues up the sleeve with deal with. Just toss good ol’ romance out of the window, eh?
A woman who has opinions is assumed by many desi boys to be someone “difficult”, “uncompromising”, “a liability” and it boils down to “well I cant take her home to mama with that mouth”.
and if this same woman with opinions was dating a white boy-he wouldn’t have any problems with her shooting her mouth off in front of his parents? Yeah I can see that happening.
That is what I would call acceptable intimidation. Unacceptable intimidation is that a person is threatened by someone with a healthy career and goals and a social outlook in which they expect to be treated with respect. If a Desi person is with a non-Desi , should he or she expect his or her partner to respect his or her belief that Indian people deserve equal treatment in society?
It is a fact that men need to learn how to communicate, and most learn this at a later age. Your poets and artists learn earlier, your Doctors and Engineers often learn later. Until you learn how to communicate, its not an easy task to converse on a deep level with a woman in a serious relationship. Instead guys get by with sex and doing various odds and ends, or whatever. So yes, it is intimidating to be talking to someone who is able to articulate important values and all that stuff when you yourself are just trying not to fuck up. And this is a fact of life. To me that is different than being intimidated by someone who expects equal treatment in a relationship.
And none of this has much to do with being Desi.
“What do ABD girls think about dating FOB guys. I got the “How dare you ask me out” look from her. NOT cool.”
Hey, I’m an ABD girl married to a LT-FOB and there are lots of other couples like us. The FOB’s of today are not like our parents generation – much more cosmopolitan! My IL’s in India are much more cooler than the desis living in the US for 30 yrs.
The best part is that the FOB male cut the cord himself when he left India. 🙂 Having been living alone for years, they’re independent.
If you think about it, due to the traditional upbringing in the US, some ABD girls are more “Indian” than the ones in India now (e.g., know how to roll a roti while desi girls had the bai cook).
Yeah, I would’ve (and have!) turned down FOB guys in the past. Didn’t even want to meet my husband! (expected a total coconut oiled, mustachioed geek) But friends said to keep my options open.
So, that’s my msg to my ABD sistas — keep your options open and give the FOB a chance 🙂
disclaimer: Do not go to India to marry one. Make sure he came here on his own!
I am just not going to get any work done today at allÂ…Â…I am all for women empowerment, I grew up with enough racism to give me serious problems for life, add the fact that I am female and you would imagine that I would need therapy. However I have never had problems with dating because I donÂ’t forget the fact that I am an INDIAN WOMAN! I have culture, I am educated, I can cook and if I want I can impress your parents. I consent to playing certain roles at certain times in exchange you do the same. I will wear a sari to meet your grandmother, cook for your friends at superbowl, never question you in front of your parents and laugh at your jokes. You in turn will respect me, donÂ’t let your parents and friends diss me, let me be on top and always remember I am not your mum.
I once went to church with a Catholic friend and the priest said something so prolific, he said: God created Eve not from a bone from AdamÂ’s hand so he could hit her, not from his foot so he can trod on her but a bone from his ribs, so she can stand next to him.
Words to live by people, regardless of your religion. Janeofalltrades, I do believe it is the opposite sex that makes players into players. Some girl threw a bitchfest and messed him up for life, and you will catch more bees with honey than vinegar, or just smell all the flowers till you find your hunny. Wow a cheese festÂ…Â…
Sahej, you described me to a T. Nevertheless, my wife’s family accepted me. My mother-in-law advised my wife as follows: “It will take this boy years to make enough money to buy a car on his own money or to buy a house on his own money. But it will happen.” I guess they were investing in me.
As things have turned out, I have gained self-confidence because I have survived several crises. As to that car and house, I am in a fairly hot sector of the economy. So I am making good money even though I am a low-level employee.
Cinnamon Rani you the best.
Hey, I’m an ABD girl married to a LT-FOB and there are lots of other couples like us. The FOB’s of today are not like our parents generation – much more cosmopolitan! My IL’s in India are much more cooler than the desis living in the US for 30 yrs.
Now now now. This can’t be for real. They burn women there for dowry. Snake charmers walk the streets and farm animals live in peoples’ living rooms. Where’s Pardesi Gori. She’ll tell ya.
Non brown men don’t have the “demure desi girl” (and they are real because a lot of my cousins are like that, don’t speak up when not spoken to, super sweet, good Indian girls etc) illusion that desi boys have. They don’t see the opinionated woman as any kind of a liability. And more importantly they don’t measure her liability factor ratio towards meeting mom and don’t think that far ahead and allow preconcieved notions to taint the existing relationship.
You seem to have the magic formula figured out. Can you now spread some love to the other brown brothers? 🙂
And let me describe brown baggage…excerpts from a bad date…
Man: “Why don’t you have another drink?” Woman: “IÂ’ve already had one, maybe later after dinner, I donÂ’t want to get drunk.”
Man: “You don’t have to try to be a good Indian girl around me, be yourself, get drunk if you have to.”
Man: “Want to try some of my steak?” Woman: “Sorry I don’t eat red meat?” Man: “Why not? You are eating chicken?” Woman: “I just don’t really eat red meat, just chicken occasionally otherwise prefer vegetarian food.” Man: “I don’t understand, what kind of rule is that, you eat meat but you won’t eat all meats? Is this some kind of religions thing? I’ve never heard that before.
Janeofalltrades
I’m not trying to be funny, but why exactly were those conversations in post 120 loaded with such objectionable attitudes? That just sounds like flirtatious banter to me, playing with assumptions, that kind of thing.
Anyway, you know I spoke to a white English lady once who said semi-jokingly that her ambition was to marry her daughters off to ‘nice Indian boys’ because they have such a good attitude and are all so polite and respectful of family and everything. I also knew a Punjabi girl I went to University with who married a white guy who wanted her to play the role of submissive Indian wife (even telling her to wear saris and bindis for him when they went out together because he ‘liked showing her off’ – they are now divorced)
So you know everyone has to deal with these assumptions and stereotypes. Saying that all white guys/girls don’t see a certain thing and have preconceived notions of Indian girls/boys when they meet is untenable. Some of them do. Just as some desi boys/girls have their own baggage when they meet each other.
Women mature faster than men do. The 21-25/26 age range is where most men (and many women) will really figure out who they are, what they want, what they actually like/dislike.
College is a fantasy land where expectations are skewed, you’re surrounded by people your own age in proportions you’ll generally never experience, especially if you went to a large land grant school.
Desi men, at some level, were at a disadvantage. Elder brothers and good fathers are critical in helping build confidence and mentoring. How do immigrant fathers who never played by the rules of an American landscape, mentor their sons in what to expect? Some parents may get the gist, but there is a gap in how information flows. This does NOT mean that desi second generation men won’t figure it out, but there is a learning curve involved. Confidence when built up transcends dating. It flows into all aspects of one’s life. Once men figure out what they want and each gender’s expecations align with reality of their needs, is it all that different for desis vs rest of the world?
Hating on desi men is easy to do. They’re intimidated, they’re so lame, so uncool, etc., but the same can be flipped around from a guy’s perspective on desi women – they’re stuck up, they have wild expectations, they act like daddy’s little princesses, etc.
Patience is a virtue of the wise, don’t hate the players, hate the game.
…
Well that’s desi baggage though. Brown people assume they have authority over something brown and it comes out badly at times. My friend never expected her wish to not drink more to turn into bytchslap at the “good Indian girl”. That’s baggage and insecurity talking.
I’m not denying the fact that we all have baggage, but the baggage can be unmanageable when you are younger when it’s two brownz and it comes from a lot of factors. Usually people learn to deal with this as they get older. I know I certainly have.
chick pea,
Oh, doh. Take Josh Smith in the 2nd half of the 2nd round.
GujuDude,
I’d say its a 10 year difference. Birds are 10 years ahead of us and are waiting till we get half a clue and tidy ourselves up a bit.
it’s always funny to think about this issue– being a now-25yr old american-born kannada (K-DIGZ!!) girl with (one) of my degrees from harvard– it poses a slight issue for them desi boys, and boys in general. i totally feel you, Rupa!! desi boys, while a good species overall, get really confused by outgoing desi girls. I work with gang-affiliated, abused, crime-committing children in cities with escalating murder rates– not so desi-boy friendly, according to the amma and appa. i play competitive outdoor soccer for a co-ed rec team and desi boys stare at me in utter confusion– didn’t they all see bend it like beckham??? i sing and perform carnatic music and jazz– again, total blank looks from desis.
i’ve dated a few desis with mixed results– i try not to judge all of my desi brothers by my not-so-good experiences.
i ultimately hope to be with a desi guy in the end for a variety of reasons– mostly involving a tacit understanding of why the temple is an important place during Navaratri. or maybe i want to be with a desi because i don’t want to constantly explain myself to a person’s family. or maybe i just hope that they would ‘get’ where i come from and why i can’t just reject a culture that i love so much.
desi girls, stand up and be proud!! use that golden voice that you are so lucky to have. brown is beautiful and that’s the truth.
I’ve got very little to add to this conversation as far as “do’s and dont’s” but it has just been my experience that meeting and dating desi women is far easier for me now (as a 30 year old), than it was 5 years ago. I chalk it up to general maturity on both sides. I think all the “dishing” that Sex and the City made so popular is 90% nonsense. I mean really, if two people interact as mature adults, and treat each other with the appropriate respect, there’s really no need to come up with a list of dating “rules.” If you leave the facade at home, the other person will see you as who you are and will be either interested or disinterested. If there is interest, great, if there isn’t, move on. It’s that simple. I also try not to come to any conclusions regarding the person after the first date. First dates are awkward at best and you can’t see all there is to see in a person in one hour over a cup of coffee.
Now if I may go off on a bit of a rant. There is one thing that is slightly un-related to the post that drives me nuts and is applicable to all, regardless of race or gender. I really can’t stand it when I go out to a woman and decide to call later and, rather than saying she’s not interested, she simply ignores the phone call and never returns it. To all people who do that, grow a spine. If you’re not interested, say so. Believe me, chances are you are not all that, you did after all decide to go out with me in the first place. The other person will recover you come off just looking like a wuss.
I don’t know, personally I thought it was quite a funny line, I’ve been in situations where I said something like that, and it was playful and defused tension. I suppose it depends on who you’re talking to, and if they say it was a cheeky smile or not 😀
Whoa whoa whoa, I’ll concede your last point. but non-brown, in particular white men do indeed have a preconceived idea of what an Indian or desi girl is and should be as well. Much of it is exoticization, but a lot of it is the idea they are passive as well.
“I know you are a desi male so you think you are not intimidated- But have you DATED a desi male? They are SOOOO intimidated”
Real world examples please…
Dating in the USA is a whole different ball game from India. Its hard to generalize things, but if you are interested in someting more casual, please do not chase Indian girls: ABCD or FOB. Its gonna take way too long (if ever) and not before some extraction of committment. The funny thing is I know Indian girls can be as slutty as anyone else , but just not with Indian guys apprently. I’m pretty sick of hearing how easily they give it up to my non desi friends. We are much better off chasing non desis.
Another problem at all these desi gatherings is that of all the desi chicks there, there will be like just 2 hot ones, who get waaay too much attention and hence always have this huge bitch shield on. Good luck trying to get their number guys.
I am straight up FOB, but have had more success with ABCD girls than FOB, mainly because ABCD girls know how to flirt. WIth FOB girls, I am genuinely scared to flirt / act playfully physical as they get scared off way too easy. Oh yeah with ABCD girls, please get switch to your American accent (you know what I’m talking out FOB guys)
My fellow FOBs, a gentleman gets nowhere in the US. Its a dog eat dog world, and the only way to get play here is to be shamelessly aggressive. Bury that Mr Nice guy and bring him back out when you are going back home to get engaged to a nice girl from India that you have never met.
Uhhh I went to Rutgers- there were plenty of slutty ABCD and FOB girls who gave it up to the Desi boys just as much as the non-Desi ones…
Oh and I was trying to be good at the office today. 27 MBF in the house. These stereotypes are silly. I never dated a desi (call it rebellion against the ‘rents) until hubby(an amazing blend of East meets West). I think most women want to be with a man that has income potential. Obviously it’s not the be all end all but hells yeah it’s a factor in a host of factors. Date a jerk who has money — no (obviously). In my experience, my desi husband knew from day one I was an opionated, empowered woman and I would say is what attracted him to me. I put all my cards out there when we met.. and honestly didn’t approach dating him any different the my tactics used on non-desi men:)
And experience, I daresay
Oooohhhh…Who doesn’t love a good discussion of heteronormative diaspora stereotypes about gender from our minority communities to justify why we aren’t getting any action???
I know I do.
From my experience, with the gals I run with, we are definitely all about equal opportunity. I think it’s important to be authentic and that shouldn’t change whether you date a desi or a non-desi.
There’s the issue of reputation and gossip. If you have casual sex with a desi guy, everybody knows (and you’re judged for it). If you have casual sex with an outsider, you don’t get judged, and you don’t have to worry about getting a “soiled reputation” for being easy.
I see a couple issues with brown on brown dating: 1) Before it even begins, it’s more serious than it should be bc in the back of your mind, you’re thinking, maybe I could end up with this person and it wouldn’t make my parents cringe. Normal ppl don’t think this way – or at least I never did when I was dating non-desi. 2) There are much higher expectations for someone brown… example: attractive, intelligent desi woman I know with Ph.D. will date someone white who is unattractive, overweight, etc, with lower level degree bc they get along great or have a lot in common. If she met the brown version of that man, she would immediately internalize it…”I’m so cute/have high level degree – I should be with someone equally attractive/accomplished.” Point is, a lot of us see biodatas when we meet potential desi partners, bc we are conditioned to size ourselves up according to community standards.
I’ve noticed a lot of brown men won’t date desi until they are ready to settle down… I think one thing that makes brown vs brown dating less awkward is if both sides are relaxed and don’t have high expectations of what’s to come…
Or simply don’t sleep with a guy that’s a gossipping-machine.
i.e. one who isn’t desi 😉
Yes this is a factor. My friends have definitely said the same thing .Desi cricles in most cities seem to be small and you end up rolling with the same ol people at NetIP or desi parties etc. Everone will find out eventually if you sleep with someone in the circle. Better to pick up some random non desi at a bar innit?
DesiDawg:
DesiDawg, I’m lovin’ you today.
We’re a lot more connected to each other than we are to random non-desis. You’d be surprised, it’s like 2-3 degrees of separation for white collar desis in America, especially those who went to a top 30 college.
That makes sense from a logistical standpoint too, though. There are fewer desis around us, so if you’re not serious, why make all the effort to find one. When you’re just having fun, you don’t care if the guy is a Gujju of similar background. However, when you want to settle down, you do think more about how important cultural similarity is.
Like as if that matters. people desi or non-desi talk anyways.
Are there any drop-dead gorgeous Indian girls commenting here? Lets face it, you’re who the guys here want to leant about.
Or they’ve hooked up with one of your friends already, which can just be kind of eeeeuuw the next time you see them in the locker room (your friend, that is).
It’s even worse on college campuses. Everybody knows who is with whom, even if it involved a lot of sneaking around.
It’s incestuous.
Phew…I love this post, but can’t seem to get through all the comments.
I am an ABCD chick who is now engaged (happily) to a FOB. 🙂 His sincerity, lack of assholeness is great, hehe.
But I agree about the dominant female thing…we are both punjabi, and my parents CONSTANTLY tell me that if we have any problems, it’s because I am too assertive. (I’m an attorney what do u expect). BLAH
This is one evergreen threadmarker of a topic Taz 🙂 include women who are born and brought up in India and work here in ur discussion 🙂 they also face the same music!!
This falls more into what our own garbanzobean has been talking about (and my own brothers agree with me): desi guys are intimidated by a woman who’s successful in her career and has a strong opinion (GOD FORBID). (Prove me wrong guys! PROVE ME WRONG! And not in a gold-digging way because that’s gross.) True to a large extenet Rupa, for both ABDs and India born desis-but i am hopeful that not all desi men are like that. I am an India-born and brought up girl and been here in the US for few years, working as a scientist in best of Medical Schools in US and i have faced this situation with marriage proposals 😉 most desi men (or their parents) were looking for a coy, fair, tall, smart bride who goes for “work-life balance”, but the message being put across is that you are expected to be a good house-wife and also work to make money. and in all likelihood u are gonna be the one making supper everynight and taking care of the babies. given the limited interest i have in dating/marriage, i generally have a good laugh. but it often makes me think, WHY this one-sided expectation :))
and a majority of ABD guys i personally know have gone ahead and married girls born and brought up in India-can anyone explain this trend.
Bidi, you suggest that most women look for $$$, am not sure if thats true for all desi women. and you also suggest With 1st-gen guys, I could see it, if they are from a region that is unfamiliar with dating, courtship etc., but even now among my people my age in India (granted mostly in Bangalore, Chennai and Madras) those guys are just as forward when it comes to dating as people I know in the U.S. why only these two cities (Bro, Chennai and Madras are the same)?? what about other parts of India-is it because you have visited only these cities. I have spent six good years in Indian Insititute of Science,Bangalore, so i know a bit about how educated guys in Bangalore think-both guys who are originally from Karnataka and the guys who move there for work :). I have a bit disagreement on this point with you:)
91 is one of the most ignorant posts I ve ever come across.
Your generalization about brown brothers is disgusting. The respect Indian men have for their mothers is admirable. What exactly are you complaining about here? Would you be OK with a guy demanding more respect , love than you have for your father? They are two different things, love for your spouse & love for your parents. On the contrary, the ‘mama’s boy’ tag should be a USP! But desi sistas here in America are too ’empowered’ to understand this, maybe when fairest of the fair sex recognises & acknowledges it, the desi ladies will begin lining up for the mama’s boys.
i know a TON of them as well miss musical…. desi boy docs do this all the time..one of them told me.. (don’t kill the messenger)..’i don’t need opinions or brains..i just need beauty’…
dammit.. i could go on and on..but have to run.. cheers and happy diwali to all..
i just wrote a very long post that got lost. sigh. this is either a sign that talking about desi dating is too difficult, or that the SM gods were working for you people in order to prevent you from having to read an enormous, self-indulgent post by yours truly 🙂
You can’t be serious in even attempting to deny its existence.
I’m with you on that. I wish more people were open and honest so as not to lead someone on and leave them hanging. But I have to be honest, honestly sometimes backfires. Telling someone you don’t jive sometimes brings out the worst in people. It’s hurtful I suppose being rejected but sometimes people get disgruntled over it and it can backfire.
My peeve is with text messaging and email. Do it like a man to my face. I’m a big girl. I can handle it. Can you? 🙂
But still baggage. Baggage that has nothing to do with the current date and baggage the current date did not create and should not be subject to. But so be it.
Wait you mean you don’t know there is? After 20 years in NYC and being fairly social and visible thru writing I am convinced that every brown person I meet is connected by 1 or 2 degrees. I have lost track of how many times I’ve met people and you are connected somehow. Yeah I know sounds convuluted but it’s real. Every desi around here is connected somehow.
Perhaps you forgot to read the rest of the post (…To me mama’s boys does not mean he likes his mother, cares and respects her and does things for her and gives her time and attention. Its a fine line…) or the whole thread? I’ll excuse you for that.
I see this as well infact quite a few of my friends have done that. There were a myriad of reasons given for doing this. But it pretty much boils down to wanting someone that will “blend well” with their life rather then them having to make too many adjustments. And the implicit assumption that a girl from India is good Indian girl that will adjust to his family and not talk back and have too many of her own strong opinions.
23/m/london ……; )
So how about some advice ladies to help us desi bruthas out. What is the sure-fire way to approach a desi girl without causing offence of some description?. From the above I understand that we can’t talk about hobbies, what we do or be just be plain nice?
study to become an astronaut
Or being told by your married female friends at 30 that they know no unmarried desi femails, so you should start looking for broads abroad.
you define a line and then cross more fine lines with your assumptions.
Obviously you ve been burnt. But your ‘whiteys more women empowering than brown bros’ is way outta line. Any generalizations you make have to be backed up with statistical data. How many desi-white interracial couples do you know? What kind of experiences do they share, if any. How come Indra Nooyi- Pepsico’s CEO has an Indian husband? Can a woman be president in America?
If you say you arent generalizin about all Indian men, then you are talkin about exceptions & exceptions happen with every race. Dont be hatin.
Yup that’s it really. This is what I have always been told and this is something that always works. Disregard all the rules and games anyone has ever talked about. If being yourself, being honest and being sincere doesn’t work then the person you are working for isn’t worth it. Time to move on and onto someone that will jive with you and appreciate those things.