Much like the girls on Sex and the City would get together to dish, my girls and I will get together and dish about the dilemmas of Dating while Desi. Yes, girls do talk, far more than we blog about. And Dating while Desi ain’t easy, as the mutiny has informed us on Sepia Destiny Part 1. In these talks, we girls will touch on questions such as, “Do you date desi only or non-desis or anyone but white boys? Do your parents sneak around behind your back with biodata and pictures? Do your parents give out your numbers to guys that call and don’t leave messages – from obscure area codes? Do your parents even know that you date? Where do you find desi guys that haven’t gone back to South Asia to get their bride already?” These questions (and more) are indicative to the plight of the single, 25 yr.+, independent-thinking desi girl and is why I love to find solidarity with my single desi sisters – whether over chai, or virtually by reading my favorite desi gal bloggers ( Rupa, TheBarMaid, Chick Pea, brimful, SP, to name a few).
Saturday night while I was surfing on YouTube alone in the North Dakota bunker, I came across this episode of Desi OC – after watching the video I thought to myself, maybe I’ve been playing the game all wrong…
The Desi OC episode above comes out of production company Raising Desi, and one of the film maker is Los Angeles comedian Tarun Shetty. (You may also recognize the gal pal from Timberlake’s Senorita music video.) All of Tarun’s addictive mini-movies are far more polished than the typical YouTube video, but the thing that struck me about this episode in particular were the rules they had for Dating while Desi. We all know the general “Dating Rules” — Wait three days before calling back, never talk politics or religion on a first date, and never say yes to a guy that asks you out the day of.
But I realize now after watching the video, that there are a whole different set of dating rules set aside for Dating while Desi. Who would have known? I certainly didn’t know the rules changed between dating desi, and dating non-desi. So, to summarize what I have learned so far…
Dating While Desi Rules (For Guys)
- If you get a desi girl’s number – three day rule is out. Call the next day if an ABCD girl. But if a FOB girl, you have to pace out with e-mails and phone calls.
- If she asks you what you do, where your family comes from and stuff, she’s no good. She’s grading you to see if you meets up to her social standards.
Dating While Desi Rules (For Girls)
- Make sure to make the guy chase you a little bit and space things out accordingly.
- Go to the bases three times slower with a desi guy than you would with a non-desi.
- Never tell a desi guy that you are really a doctor (or an engineer, or a lawyer). Instead, lie with a less ‘threatening’ career.
- Don’t date a jobless bum. Or desi doctors.
Maybe if I had known these rules, I could have figured out the desi dating game a lot sooner. Hence, I make an appeal to you, oh mutinous crew. Are there other rules to Dating while Desi that I don’t know about? Is it really harder to date us desi girls? (Not that dating you desi guys are any walks in the park.) Or as Tarun says in the video, “Desi girls are hard, man. Stick to dating goris…”
Let the Sepia Destiny virtual dish begin.
This is a load of bunk. I have yet to meet a guy that says “Man she sure won my heart by ignoring me for 3 months while I was chasing her down” Any female attempt to logically describe “what they want” makes about as much sense as watching Anna Kournakova for her tennis skill.
Being nice and kindhearted goes directly out the window. What really matters is social proof, and your ability for non-verbal, subtextual communication. Master these, and the female brain is transformed into mush. And women are more suscpetible to the halo effect, I’d imagine.
I’m the last person to have a clue but,
Why do Desi women want to be with Desi men? I think this one needs to be explained to us Desis men. The whole, we share a culture thing? What else?
Isn’t it true that if you like someone you will find a way to make it easy, unless there is a reason to make it hard, like distance, family drama, work, ect? So, if it really is hard to date desi, what does that mean? Maybe it means sometimes a person is ambivalent about the whole, must meet a Desi thing.
So I want to turn it back on Desi women, in that its a complete fallacy to think that most Desi women are constrained to just dating Desi men, as most Desi women do have valid options to date whoever they get along with. I don’t even need an answer, but I’d like to ask the question. How much is it something you believe to be true, that finding a Desi guy is really all that important in the grand scheme of things?
Personally I’d never want to give away the hope of being with a Desi woman, but I know that it causes awkwardness, as in some ways its not realistic to who I am to be able to relate solely to a Desi woman.
Yay, another 400-comment post!!!!!!!!
Taz, you write this
and then ask this???
Haven’t you pretty much answered your own question earlier????
I think there’s a vicious cycle going on — this mutual suspicion between desi guys and gals which are just perpetuated by these “rules”. Throw these rules out of the window for once and see what happens!!!
I’ve actually been on the receving end of the famous ‘desi-girl attitude’ towards desi guys. I was told by a desi girl once — ‘I’m Indian, not blonde’, when I tried to make a (very innocous) move. Somehow many desi girls seem to think themselves as being superior because they keep the (desi) guys hanging around, and treat all goris as sl*ts. I just think of that attitude as cultural baggage.
As a FOB and being a bit out of the mould in my tastes, I agree with a previous comment — I see myself ending up with a very liberal FOB gal (hard to find one in the states) or a gori.
I don’t want this to be construed as being hateful towards 2-gen gals, I see a lot of fabulous ones, unfortunately, they seem to be their fab selves only towards goras, and follow the ‘rules’ too faithfully towards us desi boys.
As an introspective thought, I might be doing that too…
To add to my comments above (#52), has there been a discussion yet about the desi obsession with Friendster/Facebook? NOTE TO THE BLOGGERS.
Does any other ethnic group engage in as much navel gazing about dating/love as desis?
Rupa,
I think the problem, more so than not wanting to date someone ambitious, is, there is not a realistic way for an Indian guy to meet you. You for example, have a boyfriend. But you eventually want to marry someone Indian. So the key interval of time for that to happen is for you not to have a boyfriend. If you are a go-getter type of person, maybe a lot of men generally would be intimidated. Your current BF, he speaks a foreign language and he lived in another country for 14 years, and he’s a med student. He does not sound like your average run of the mill guy either. Honestly, if you saw an Indian guy now, you would be comparing him to someone you already probably have solid feelings for. He’s not going to come off looking good. At best, he’d be interesting, at worst, he’d be scuzzy for talking to you while knowing you had a boyfriend.
If you want to date an Indian guy there has to be some realistic way for that to happen, and its not very possible if a person already has, what appears to be a pretty good relationship already. Any guy with half a brain is going to understand that he has no realistic chance of breaking up a relationship of a woman who is solid and with-it. Nor should he want to.
I’ll be the first – you’re an ass!
=)
Physicians, get thyselves onto Friendster and Shaadi.com. Seriously. You’ll meet like minded people and even have some illicit fun as you search for that soulmate who knows how to chill with your family whilst at the same time eating tofu/red meat in line with your own enviromentalist-feminist/football loving dispositions. In other words, its a good way to get laid as well as find a wife or husband.
Point taken Sahej. However I was single for 2 years prior and didn’t hear a peep from the desi guys :). TWO YEARS. In Chicago. And I go out plenty.
Yes, many want a girl who is successful academically and professionally, but he still needs to be the one who clearly wears the proverbial pants. Again, not all Injun guys are like this – I’m addressing more of the stereotype that a lot of commenters are putting forward. She has to be good, but he has to be better.
Sigh, you just can’t win if you are a desi guy, can you? There are just so many ways to hate on us…
Rupa, how the heck do you only get asked out ONCE in two years by desi guys in Chicago? I live here too, and its like 50% desi. Hahaha. Ok maybe not fifty but it seems like that sometimes.
Bidi, I second you, this line of reasoning is a rationalization against the fact that Indian women are not approached enough by Indian men. It serves their egos best to conclude that men are intimidated by “strong personalities” The term itself is ridiculous. What does that mean, “strong” or “dominant” personality? To voice your opinion? To have your own interests? By definition a romantic relationship requires certain concessions to be made in favor of the partner – on both ends.
The real reason, IMO, for desi guys not approaching desi women (or women in general for that matter) is a lack of foundation in the “dating” methodology. Social dynamics in the US are something 1st gen immigrants have no clue about, and subtly (and sometimes not so subtly) dismiss as deviant. So 2nd gen people are left to “learn on the job” so to speak.
Since the onus of initiation falls onto the male, we have an exponentially more difficult time. If the woman’s role is simply to sit back and field requests, certainly it’s easier to do that rather than initiate, when you know your parents never did it, their parents never did it, their parents parents never did it, etc…
You know, I am tired of hearing that Desi women only run after rich desi doctors/lawyers/engineers. I am sure this was probably the norm back in the day, thus it is taken as the stereotype, but there is a whole new generation of desi women out there, I donÂ’t know if it happens in the US as yet, but my gal pals in South Africa, who are educated, and earn very well have decided to strictly date ‘artistic men’. They believe they make more than enough money, so they date men that ‘fulfill other needs’, and there are plenty of poets, artist, literature professors (person favorite), actors and not forgetting the UN and Peace Corp sweeties to go after…. Follow your heart and take care of your own pocket!
Chick Pea, somewhere out there is a rockstar waiting for you. I think you may need a new guitarÂ…
i had other things to say but this is by far the funniest thing i’ve read in a long long time:
Aww I didn’t mean to come off hating – trust me, we get it, too.
Rupa,
Maybe part of it was intimidation, in that a lot of guys, more so then being threatened, probably feel they don’t measure up. Guys tend to think that women like men who have something going for them. If they’re in their 20’s, they might not have much going for them other than an apartment bought by their parents and the ability to study really hard. Thats not going to make a dude confident about being with someone who is really awesome themselves.
The desi part of it, more than a special proclivity for desi men to be intimidated is, there is always the long-term in the back of the mind. When you’re younger and don’t know what you want, you tend to shy away from starting a relationship that you think has the odor of long-term. I honestly do not think it has much to do with desi men being especially intimidated by successful women.
This thread is brilliant – I love everyone coming up with a contention and statement, loading it with caveats, then another person disagreeing with them, citing their experience and successes/failures in the deadly mating dance of desi man and woman, hilarious.
400 post thread for sure I reckon just as someone already said.
You know, I am tired of hearing that Desi women only run after rich desi doctors/lawyers/engineers.
You are right-Desi women only run after rich WHITE VCs/lawyers/investment bankers. I went to a NETIP event in San Francisco 4 years ago and it was all about “empowered” desi women and their white trophy husbands/boyfriends.
Stand back! DesiDawg just dropped a bomb in # 74!
DesiDawg, I dont know about other Desi girls, but I like my chocolate brown/caramel. I like desi guys, they have already been trained by their mum! It’s true, they already had to deal with a strong woman so another one just keeps his world balanced and those who try to fight it, learn the hard way….. 🙂
TO #74: Hahahahhahahhahahhaha
That’s pretty hot.
BTW, any man who whines about white dudes taking our women; you’ve already lost the game before the opening buzzer sounds. I’ve been there myself.
Man some of you seem to be nursing some deep wounds.
BTW, any man who whines about white dudes taking our women; you’ve already lost the game before the opening buzzer sounds. I’ve been there myself.
Sahej, the question is not about white dudes taking “our women” it’s about “our women” prefering white dudes with a lot of $$$.
Desidawg,
What are you going to do, inject melanin into every white dude while they sleep? Or maybe rob all white men and give their money to the people of Fiji
Wow I can’t believe I slept in today and a topic I claim to have serious authority over would be so far along 🙂
Dating while brown has it’s own complexities. I’ve learnt a lot in my prolific dating life and written and gotten beaten up over it as well. One thing is for certain, it’s far less complicated to date non brown than a brown man. Dating a brown man brings in your own baggage and his baggage that you have to balance and deal with.
I love desi men, I admit it, I feel a certain “additional” connection to them I don’t with non desis but dating a brown man also comes with a lot of additional “measuring up” that doesn’t exist with a non brown. It’s life and instead of fighting it I just deal with it. I test drove 8 cars before I bought one, I looked at 25 properties before I bought one, I research simple things like where to go eat on Saturday night, why the heck would I not want to measure up a man I’d be intimate with? Doh.
Why are people offended when they are measured up? I don’t. I have standards I expect a man to have standards as well and if I don’t measure up to his well then I don’t for that man. It doesnt mean I don’t for another. The problem I have isn’t with the “measuring” the problem is the ‘playa’ potential so many upwardly mobile desi boys in NYC seem to have. That’s a deal breaker. And when you’ve been a playa it’s easy to spot one. I don’t play that game anymore. Too old for it. I see bullshit I call it and move on.
Why indeed. Insert ribald double entendre here: [ ]
JOAT,
If a man doesn’t measure up, why should he reveal his measurements just for the sake of being laughed at? Its not to do with intimidation, its moreso self preservation. I also agree with you on the Desi male mirage that we are players. Here’s where it comes from to me. We’re giving the illusion that because we are Indian, and a lot of our friends tell us we are so lucky to be indian because indian women are so hot and all, we think, “we have it made.” When in reality, its not actually true. So we run around thinking we have all the options in the world, until the realization hits that, its not really going to work out that way. And thus ends the Desi man’s mirage. And then, you do have some men who are Desi and players, but players come in all colors, and they are their own thing.
And to support Rupa…from another Rupa…the intimidation factor is real, it’s substantial and one just has to navigate it. I leant it a long time ago and have made peace with it. I don’t see it going away.
I think it all boils down (for me at least) to men wanting a woman who “needs and wants them” pure and simple. If I come across as a self sufficent, don’t need a man for anything type I’m bound to bring out questions in the man I’m dating. He is bound to wonder “well if she doesn’t need me why am I sticking around, looks like she’s doing fine by herself”. Men inherently love to “rescue” a woman even if it’s from something completely mundane and silly because it makes them feel desired and wanted. It gives them a place to belong in a woman’s life.
So you get the “he is intimidated” vibe when in reality all he wants is for you to want him and have room for him in your ‘feminista, self sufficient, fearless female” life!
Bidismoker, Awesome post. Certain desi women date rich white men. That’s their personal choice and none of my business-it’s the BS that they peddle to justify their dating preferences that ticks me off. Mama’s boys, not liberal, cannot stand independent women blah blah blah. Get a life!
India had a women PM what like 30 years ago? Any chance the USA will ever have one?
That is not intimidation, thats wanting to be needed in a relationship. And none of that has anything to do with being Desi. All men feel that way.
But see you are assuming that the measurment is going to make a woman laugh. That is where insecurities come into play. Trust me I have them too but my insecurities get better with age. Things that bothered me before don’t anymore because I’ve learnt to separate the sincere from the bullshit. I’ve also learnt that men are willing and open to improve themselves and change themselves for the right kind of woman. Being a brown woman comes with its own baggage but also amazing abilities IMO. I’ve empowered men to give up smoking, cut down on drinking and improve their food habits. Some might call it manipulating but these men did it willingly because it came with brown love. The same men would have told a non brown chick to piss off if she had tried to “change” them.
The playa thing what can I tell you. There are so many. And I’m a big believer in “league”. I hate to say it but it exists more visibly in the diaspora. Especially in NYC where desiness is abundunt, hot and rich. I won’t go above and beyond my league simply because I don’t think I would measure up and won’t be able to play in it. I once dated a Managing Director at Neuberger Berman and this man had a $8 million penthouse on the upper east side. Trust me it came with so much additional requirements and baggage I knew after the first date I didnt measure up. He was a really nice guy but I was way below his league and by league I don’t mean rich or hot, it’s just the place and point in life.
I see nice average guys go to parties stand around and try to get the attention of and chase after the hottest chick in the room that won’t even spit their way when there are tons of other nice girls standing around. They leave with no hot chick and no phone number and think women have a problem with them when all they’ve done is failed to recognize all the ones that don’t have a problem with them. It’s a vicious cycle. It’s a two way street. Seen it happen the other way around too.
awww miss CR i have missed you terribly.. new guitar ;)… awww the guitar hero one doesn’t work? 🙂
i’m so ticked that this topic had to come up TODAY…for me is a horrible/busy clinic day on this end.. i will respond later on to the other comments…
cheers, the intimidator 😉
This is a land mine and I’m going to stand on it. It’s real. I love a man who’s close to his mama because I would expect him to understand my closeness to mine but desi boys (NOT ALL – before everyone jumps down my throat) are mama’s boys and that’s that. It’s something ALL desi women know and it’s something we can’t do anything about. So one has to just navigate around it. And my definition of mama’s boy may be different from yours so I’ll tell you my criteria. Two things.
To me mama’s boys does not mean he likes his mother, cares and respects her and does things for her and gives her time and attention. Its a fine line.
And yes non brown men generally don’t come attached with umbilicial cords.
I had to post late night so I had 90 comments to read in the morning…. great.
Initially I was talking about a different time period, in early 20’s. And that point life has not beaten you down and you think that if you play the game right you can avoid the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune. After awhile you just find out, you’re going to get it no matter what.
I tend to agree with you to an extent about the “league” idea. I look at it more as is this person open to what I bring and am I open to what they bring? If not, we both need to move on. You can be a chamilionarre and be looking for a solid guy who makes 40K, or you can be a person making 40K and need a dude with XYZ characteristic. Its more so about what a person wants and needs in their life than who they are, because by a certain age you’re a bit done with the social striving often times and you know what you want. And at the point, no one is going to be able to negotiate you out of it.
But all of this is generalizable to men and women, and not just Desi men and women
Fuerza Dulce: Of course you have an intimidating personality. Just your eyelashes alone are enough to batter a guy ! 😉
Bidi,
Don’t call BS on Rupa, she’s so right! I think there’s an age thing here- you just graduated out of college, no? Your dating world is like a bakery of goodies- The rules apply in particular to the “elder” desi gals in the 25+ age range. Sure there are the gold digging desi gals with LV purses that only date the doctors- by the time you reach 25+ they are the ones that are usually on their first marriage to said doctors. It’s the remainders gals that I’m referring to – the strong minded, don’t take BS, independent women. You’ll see- give yourself 5 years.
I see the same old hackneyed clichés have already gotten a hold on the minds of the SM “intelligentsia”…
.
Yup right on. Reality needs to kick in at some point. We all realize what we are worth and what is worth our while.
She is so not right. Where is this coming from that Desi men have the intimadation gene?
I’m perplexed
I can see that happening, JOAT…I want to go to NYC after I graduate (in a year, I hope), and this is precisely one of the reasons. I want to be an upwardly mobile desi playa. Well, I’m not sure what you mean by “playa”, but I do want to date (and sleep with) and be in relationships with many different women in general for a while without worrying about committment issues.
What’s really wrong with that? Just coz I’m desi, why am I expected to be all about marriage & Long-term and sh*t? I want to have exactly as much fun and pain as the next (white) dude. Why is it always ok for them to ‘sow their wild oats’ and not ok for us?
BTW, in order to encourage more information sharing – I am 27, male, single and straight, and a 1-gen been in the US for 6 years in Houston, TX.
Word. We are worth, its all about someone else not being a butthead and realizing it.
It’s important to understand WHY you want to date a desi girl/guy. Let’s say you want someone who respects your parents, wants your children to learn Hindi/Gujarati/whatever, doesn’t run away from Indian food…I dated a ‘brown’ guy who didn’t have any of the above ‘desirables’, and am now with a ‘white’ guy who does.
Sahej,
I know you are a desi male so you think you are not intimidated- But have you DATED a desi male? They are SOOOO intimidated!
Why, PJ, I do declare…
You will be right at home in NYC.
I didn’t say there was anything wrong with it. A playa isn’t someone sleeping around and living life casually. A playa is someone who misleads women into think he is not and thinking he is sincere with every woman he meets and strings along.
Taz,
Intimidated by what? And moreso than any other man would be? I will agree with you in general a lot of men are put off by strongly opinionated women. Part of it is, most men do not have the verbal capacity to go toe to toe with women, nor the emotional reserve, particularly in their 20s.
Unless you have had some inside information only you’re privy to, I don’t see this as a Desi male problem specifically.
Ven’s cynical rules of desi dating
a) Cute b) Bright c) Sweet
you can get 1. 2 if you’re lucky. but all of the above is devilishly difficult.
The bright ones complain that men are intimidated by their brightness. That chip on the shoulder isn’t very sweet. And, often, it’s b/c the particular men they liked didn’t find ’em very cute. But you can never admit that.
The cute ones – esp. if cute from an early age – don’t take the time to work on their brains. And, if they’ve got men kowtowing to their every whim, often aren’t sweet. For what it’s worth, it seems that desi’s (men and women) are like fine wines, the grapes need to be tortured a bit (e.g. go through awkward teen years ; grow in rocky soils) to become complex and interesting.
The sweet ones – oh… if only sweet were enough. The Tragedy.