Fifty years ago, on October 14, 1956 — and a mere two months before his death — Dr. B. R. Ambedkar, the scholar and political leader who was principally responsible for the drafting of India’s Constitution, converted to Buddhism in a public ceremony in Nagpur. Somewhere between 100,000 and 500,000 of his Dalit followers — the accounts vary — embraced Buddhism in the immediate wake of his conversion. For Dr. Ambedkar, nothing in his long, distinguished career could convince him that the socio-cultural dynamics of Hinduism would ever offer Dalits a way out of “untouchability,” disenfranchisement, poverty and social stigma.
Each year on October 14, conversion ceremonies take place at which Dalits embrace Buddhism or Christianity. This year they have extra poignance, not only because it is the 50th anniversary of Ambedkar’s act, but also because several states ruled by the BJP have recently adopted or strengthened laws limiting conversion. On top of all this, a principal follower of Ambedkar, Kanshi Ram, who founded the Bahujan Samaj Party (BSP) which is the main political vehicle for the Dalit movement now, passed away earlier this month.
From accounts in the press so far, there were major conversion ceremonies today in Nagpur and also in Gulbarga in Karnataka:
Hundreds of Dalits on Saturday embraced Buddhism and Christianity at a mass conversion programme in Nagpur, in which copies of Gujarat government’s anti-conversion bill were also put to fire.
The mass conversion, organised by the All India Conference of SC/ST Organisations and the All India Christian Council on the occasion of World Religious Freedom Day, was attended by Dalits from Orissa, Karnataka and Gujarat states, organisers said.
The conversion of Dalits to Buddhism was performed by priests, while a group of Christian pastors from the Council led by President Dr Joseph D’Souza baptised the Dalits. [Link]
GULBARGA (Karnataka): More than 3,000 Dalits on Saturday embraced Buddhism at an impressive ceremony here on Saturday, synchronising with the golden jubilee of Dr B R Ambedkar’s conversion to Buddhism.
Marking the change of faith, the Dalits were administered the oath by Bante Bodhi Dhama, a Buddhist monk from Japan.
Preceding the ceremony, “Buddha Dharma Deeksha Pratigne”, a huge procession led by more than 500 monks, was taken out through the city streets. [Link]
There are some very interesting present-day political angles here, not least the controversy over the anti-conversion laws, and the fact that the leader of the BSP, Mayawati, the former chief minister of Uttar Pradesh, has said she will not convert to Buddhism yet. She said this at today’s Nagpur rally, while announcing that Kanshi Ram’s funeral rites were performed in the Buddhist tradition, even though he had not converted; and while expressing her hope that Buddhism would spread further among Dalits. The mixed message clearly reflects the political complexity of the Dalit leadership’s position.
In the larger historical frame, perusing the day’s news and doing a little background research reminds me how shamefully little I know about Dr. Ambedkar’s story, let alone more obscure yet significant figures like Kanshi Ram. I hope that comments and debate on this post will help me, and surely others, remedy this lacuna.
One question I realized I had about Ambedkar was, how was he able to get his education in the first place? The answer, per the rather extensive Wikipedia entry, blends several classic ingredients that are common to stories of escape from deep-seated social injustice the world over. Ambedkar benefited from the advocacy of a determined parent, himself empowered by his military career; from a family move to the big city; from the kindness of a benevolent aristocratic patron; and of course, from his own hard work and academic excellence:
Ramji Sakpal encouraged his children to read the Hindu classics, especially the Mahabharata and the Ramayana. He used his position in the army to lobby for his children to study at the government school, as they faced resistance owing to their caste. Although able to attend school, Ambedkar and other Untouchable children were segregated and given no attention or assistance from the teachers. Ramji Sakpal retired in 1894 and the family moved to Satara two years later. Shortly after their move, Ambedkar’s mother died. The children were cared for by their paternal aunt, and lived in difficult circumstances. Only three sons — Balaram, Anandrao and Bhimrao — and two daughters — Manjula and Tulasa — of the Ambedkars would go on to survive them. Of his brothers and sisters, only Ambedkar succeeded in passing his examinations and graduate to a bigger school. His native village name was “Ambavade” in Ratnagiri District so he changed his name from “Sakpal” to “Ambedkar” with the recommendation and faith of a Brahmin teacher that believed in Bhimrao.
Ramji Sakpal remarried in 1898, and the family moved to Mumbai (then Bombay), where Ambedkar became the first untouchable student at the Government High School near Elphinstone Road. Although excelling in his studies, Ambedkar was increasingly disturbed by his segregation and discrimination. In 1907, he passed his matriculation examination and entered the University of Mumbai, becoming one of the first persons of untouchable origin to enter college in India. This success provoked celebrations amongst his community, and after a public ceremony, he was given a biography of the Buddha by his teacher Krishnaji Arjun Keluskar also known as Dada Keluskar a Maratha caste scholar. Ambedkar’s marriage had been arranged the previous year as per Hindu custom, to Ramabai, a nine-year old girl from Dapoli. In 1908, he entered the Elphinstone College and obtained a scholarship of Rs. 25 a month from the Gaekwad ruler of Baroda, Sahyaji Rao III for higher studies in USA.
Which brings us to another fascinating item. Unlike many academically successful Indians of his generation, Ambedkar didn’t go to England to study. He came to America, specifically to Columbia University in New York, where he obtained a doctorate in political science. It may well be that here in the U.S., he was more able to escape the social prejudices that might have followed him to England. The fact that he took up rooms with a Parsi could be used to argue the point either way:
Arriving in New York City, Ambedkar was admitted for graduate studies at the political science department. After a brief stay at the dormitory, he moved to a housing club run by Indian students and took up rooms with a Parsi friend, Naval Bhathena. In 1916, he was awarded a Ph.D. for a thesis which he eventually published in book form as The Evolution of Provincial Finance in British India. His first published work, however, was a paper on Castes in India: Their Mechanism, Genesis and Development. Winning his degree and doctorate, he travelled to London and enrolled at Gray’s Inn and the London School of Economics, studying law and preparing a doctoral thesis in economics. The expiration of his scholarship the following year forced him to temporarily abandon his studies and return to India amidst World War I.
Columbia’s page on Ambedkar suggests that his time here was transformative indeed:
At Columbia, Ambedkar studied under John Dewey, who inspired many of his ideas about equality and social justice. Ambedkar later recounted that at Columbia he experienced social equality for the first time. “The best friends I have had in my life,” he told the New York Times in 1930, “were some of my classmates at Columbia and my great professors, John Dewey, James Shotwell, Edwin Seligman, and James Harvey Robinson.”
In Ambedkar’s American sojourn I feel a foreshadowing of the experience of African nationalist leaders like Kwame Nkrumah of Ghana, or Nnamdi Azikiwe of Nigeria, who also came to the U.S. rather than Britain, and absorbed a very different political — and racial — environment.
The later part of Ambedkar’s career is better known. Although a nationalist, he was also fiercely opposed to the Gandhian faction in the Indian National Congress; Ambedkar wanted a separate electorate for “untouchables,” which Gandhi felt was a bad idea. When the British supported Ambedkar’s idea, it could well have been classic colonial divide-and-conquer rather than any great sympathy for the Dalits. Ambedkar also opposed Gandhi’s naming of untouchables “Harijans,” or children of God. Perhaps he felt it was a hypocritical term; that the Dalit condition simply could not be reconciled with the social structures of Hinduism. However, despite these differences, Ambedkar was invited to become the first law minister of independent India, and chairman of the committee that drafted the constitution. If India’s constitution was remarkably liberal and democratic for its context and time, we have at least in part Dr. Ambedkar to thank. I don’t think it’s a stretch either to say that some of the similarities in spirit and substance between the Indian and American constitutions may have been his contribution as well.
In a sense, Ambedkar was a separatist figure: he had long given up on achieving Dalit equality within the Hindu framework, and his conversion to Buddhism at the end of his life only confirmed this. He also wanted to use the tools of the secular state to limit the power of Hindu institutions: when he resigned from the government in 1951, it was over a Hindu Code bill that would have established gender equality in many areas; he and Nehru supported the bill, but it did not make it past opposition in parliament. He also contested the treatment of women in Islam. It is not surprising that he remains a controversial figure fifty years after his death.
Kanshi Ram, who founded the BSP in 1984, embraced a somewhat different approach, perhaps indicative of changed times as much as anything else. From a valedictory article by S. Anand in Outlook:
Kanshi Ram, unarguably the biggest leader to emerge from among Dalits in the post-Ambedkar period, and someone who succeeded in the realm of parliamentary democracy in which Ambedkar repeatedly failed, drew heavily from AmbedkarÂ’s political resources. However, he decided to deploy a different strategy at the ground level. …
Kanshi Ram realized that if the Dalits had to wrest their share in political power on their own terms, they needed allies. In this sense, he was more a follower of Jotiba Phule (1827–1890). At the heart of Kanshi Ram’s politics was the concept of the ‘bahujan’—the oppressed majority, a quintessential Phule formulation that believed in the organic unity of the Sudras (BCs and BCS) and Atisudras (Dalits and Adivasis); (something with which Ambedkar differed since he saw the Sudras as essentially erstwhile khsatriyas and the untouchables as fallen Buddhists). Following Phule, Kanshi Ram believed that the Sudras and Atisudras needed to join hands with Muslims and other minorities to combat the Brahmin-Baniya-Rajput combine. The logic that drove this postulation was that if democracy was the rule of the majoritarian voice, then why was it that in Indian democracy only the voice of the dwija castes was heard? In the early phase of his political career, Kanshi Ram believed that the Dalits and their immediate tormentors in the rural landscape—OBCs—could join hands.
Later, as the BSP gained clout and for a time political control in Uttar Pradesh under Mayawati — a Dalit female Chief Minister — its leadership found itself making political deals that one would think would have been anathema to Ambedkar. Or, as Anand argues, maybe not:
How and why did Kanshi Ram ally alternately with BJP and SP and even the Congress—in other words, with BCs and OBCs, as well the Brahmin-Baniya-Thakurs? Here, we need to invoke Ambedkar on the place of minorities in the midst of communal and political majorities. He argues in his neglected, late work Thoughts on Linguistic States:
People who rely upon majority rule forget the fact that majorities are of two sorts: (1) Communal majority and (2) Political majority. A political majority is changeable in its class composition. A political majority grows. A communal majority is born. The admission to a political majority is open. The door to a communal majority is closed. The politics of a political majority are free to all to make and unmake. The politics of a communal majority are made by its own members born in it. How can a communal majority run away with the title deeds given to a political majority to rule? Â… This tyranny of the communal majority is not an idle dream. It is an experience of many minorities.
Kanshi Ram understood that what was being played out in Indian democracy was the rule of communal majority in the name of the rule of the political majority. For a communal minority like Dalits , the only way to democracy was by kneading its way into the forces that constituted political majority in electoral politics. Dalits could not join the communal majority constituted by Baniyas, Thakurs and Brahmins, for, as Ambedkar says, the door to communal majority is closed. But they sure could join the political majority, since the class and caste composition of the political majority could change. This was manageable through alliances. Under Kanshi RamÂ’s stewardship, the BSP practically demonstrated what Ambedkar had theoretically formulated. In this sense, Kanshi Ram redefined and expanded the scope of parliamentary democracy in India.
Anand concludes:
Kanshi Ram painfully realised that PhuleÂ’s bahujan concept would not work under Dalit leadership. Kanshi Ram therefore successfully wedded PhuleÂ’s advocacy of the bahujan with the Ambedkarite idea of negotiating space for a communal minority in a political majority. With this premise, within a decade he managed to build a national party that became the sole challenge to the supremacy of the Congress and the BJP in the Hindi heartland.
An appraisal of Kanshi Ram’s legacy by Shivam Vij in Tehelka is slightly less detailed but makes similar points.
As with much else in Indian politics, where this leaves anyone is ambiguous. It’s hard to see how the Mandal II mess over expanding the OBC reservations can have advanced the Dalit cause, whatever the outcome. And the daily reality of discrimination and denigration carries on for many millions of people. Hence the continued power of conversion, as Ramdeep Ramesh writes in the Guardian:
In the small one-room house on the edge of the rice bowl of India, Narasimha Cherlaguda explains why he is preparing to be reborn again as a Buddhist.
As an untouchable, the 25-year-old is at the bottom of Hinduism’s hereditary hierarchy. “The [local] priest tells me if I was a good dalit in this life, then in my next life I can be born into a better part of society. [I say] why wait?”
Like tens of thousands of other untouchables – or dalits – across India today, Mr Cherlaguda will be ritually converted to Buddhism to escape his low-caste status. The landless labourer points to a picture of Hanuman, the Hindu monkey god, on his wall and says it will soon be gone and replaced by an image of the Buddha.
He will not be alone. More than 70 people from the village of Kumarriguda, 40 miles outside Hyderabad, the capital of southern India’s Andhra Pradesh state, will leave the Hindu religion. There are plans for a Buddhist temple and money set aside to hire a Buddhist priest – probably the first in the area for 1,500 years – to conduct prayers as well as marriage and death rites. …
In Hyderabad the first person to convert will be KRS Murthy, 70, who was the first dalit recruited into the state’s civil service in 1959.
Not being in India, I’ll leave it to others to gauge the grievances and assess the different strategies available to Dalits to address them. But here, still from the Ramesh article, is a fairly concise statement of the problem, and of the counter-arguments currently at work:
Many dalit thinkers say that what is happening in India is a “religious rebellion” against a hierarchy that condemns them to a life of suffering. “Look we make up 150m people of India.
“Yet where are the Dalit news anchors, the entrepreneurs, the professors? We are neither seen nor heard. Changing religion makes us visible,” says Chanrabhan Prasad, a dalit writer.
The Hindu right has become increasingly wary of Buddhist conversions, seeing its call for equality as exerting a powerful pull on the lowest castes. The Bharatiya Janata party (BJP) government in the western state of Gujarat controversially amended an anti-conversion law to classify Buddhism and Jainism as branches of the Hindu religion, denying them status as unique religions.
“Dalits should concentrate on illiteracy and poverty rather than looking for new religions. In fact we think that there are very few differences between Buddhism and Hinduism,” says Lalit Kumar, who works for a Hindu nationalist welfare association in Andhra Pradesh.
One last thing: I appreciate that this post raises some unresolved questions in Indian politics and society that are the subject of very strongly felt disagreements. I am also no expert, nor are my sources in any way final: I am sharing what I learned today. I hope those with facts and opinions to share will do so freely, but graciously and in the spirit of pedagogy.
Thanks to Shivam Vij for that article and that disturbing video link. My god!!!!
I think the above statement is what ends up being used to discriminate against the Dalits. The above statement says .. “look at those savages …” well, thats the first step !!!
Yeah disturbing.. But how much of it is just propaganda and good editing.. who knows.. Especially the segment that I can understand relating to the Tamil devar landlord talking about rapes looks like cleverly edited to me.. (after the 3.00 minute mark.. the 30-40 second segment) He speaks in the third person and what he says doesn’t gel with translation which says ‘we used to rape a lot’ ..
I’m not saying that Dalit discrimination does not take place.. Ofcourse it is but be watchful of propaganda videos..
Ponniyin, Since I dont speak the language spoken by the landlord, I cant say one way or the other. You might be correct. It could be done for increasing the shock value. But what was more shocking to me was the little girl’s account about discrimination at the school. That was extremely shocking to me. I have no way of telling whether what she was making up the allegations or not, but if its true than … my god !!!
My point is that, as with all political discourse, there are nuances which need to be discussed. Unfortunately, the politicians have reduced it to a simple black and white vote bank issue.
I agree. In contrast to the Sangh, which is thought to be upper caste when thats simply not true any more, the Communist Party, allegedly the people’s party, started out and continues in many ways to be an upper caste bastion. On one occasion, the Communist leader of Kerala, EMS Namboodiridad dismissed depressed caste uplift as a “burgeoise concern” subordinate to the revolution! Ambedkar referred to the Communists as a “Brahmin Boy’s Club” 🙂 On the other hand, he had very cordial relations with the Sangh.
I alluded to the fact that Ambedkar considered and rejected both Islam and Christianity, both on Indian nationalist grounds. He also considered Sikhism. Veer Savarkar of the Hindu mahasabha was very much behind a Dalit conversion to Sikhism, but 1) Ambedkar spoke with lower caste Sikhs who told them their situation was not pretty, 2) the Jat dominated Sikh institutions did not want a massive Dalit influx. So he dropped the idea.
With reference to Christianity, it is well known that the Syrian Christian Church was also also against a Dalit influx.
He also, according to Eleanor Zelliot, thought of Christianity as a “foreign religion.”
Now for some books:
1) The best short biography of Ambedkar is “Dr. Ambedkar and Untouchability” written by Christophe Jaffrelot, published by Columbia University Press. Jaffrelot is a French scholar.
2) The best collection of essays on the Dalit movement (which includes an extensive analysis of the origin of the term ‘Dalit’, a history of the Dalit panthers, etc.,) is Elanor Zelliot’s “From Untouchable to Dalit.” Zelliot is an American scholar.
3) For an account of the retention of Hindu practices among Buddhist Dalit converts, check Caste: Its Twentieth Century Avatar, by M.N. Srinivas, who is universally acknoweledeged as the preeminent authority on Sanskritization. Check Neera Burras survey of mahar villages in particular.
4) For the claim that Ambedkarite Buddhism is really a Deweyan rationalism, check the chapter on Ambedkar in “Prophets Facing Backwards” by Meera Nanda.
5) For a polemical reconstruction of Buddhist history in India, with an account of the Tamil adi-dravida Buddhist movement of Iyothee Thass that preceded Ambedkarite Buddhism, check Gail Omvedt “Buddhism in India.” Omvedt is an American scholar married to an Indian who lives in India.
The nationalists are ambivalent about Ambedkar at the moment. Politically those that make good with Buddhism strike me as being on the right path–and there are several. Shourie’s approach, imo, is a huge mistake.
RC:
Nonsense. What I was pointing out was that there are many nuances to this discourse and it is not a simple case of higher caste vs lower caste (although that discrimination exists). By making simplistic statements like you have done above, the discourse leads nowhere. In addition to talking about higher caste vs lower caste discrimination, it is imperative that we not lose sight of the fact that there are many layers underneath. [Akin to talking about black-on-black violence in the US.]It is a vital topic that needs to be aired out. There are other issues (economic, cultural, political, regional) even within the same subset of castes that are at play here. Policy makers should not concentrate on caste as the sole variable.
And converting is a simplistic solution, and possibly the least viable solution. Pick up any desi newspaper and check out the matrimonial ads; one can notice subtle discrimination within Christian, Muslim and Sikh communities as well. And if one is convinced about Buddhism’s lack of discrimination, all they ought to do is read about the Rape of Nanking (Buddhist vs Buddhist, wasn’t it?). Maybe the IPU is a better choice?
Good to see Buddhism make a come back in the land of its birth!
For those interested in this, I couldn’t recommend more Jabbar Patel’s biopic Ambedkar. Not easy to get in the U.S., but not impossible either. The lead actor Mamooty plays a fine Ambedkar, albeit in a Mallu accent throughout.
Same thing with the communist party in Bengal as well. The irony is delicious, if it only it were not so sad.
Buddhists should be the 2nd largest religious minority in INDIA… not Muslims :-p
The conversion of Dalits to Buddhism was performed by priests, while a group of Christian pastors from the Council led by President Dr Joseph D’Souza baptised the Dalits.{Link}
Someone please tell me what those “Christian pastors” were doing there. And when did they become an official authority for conversion to Buddhism ? This D’Souza guy seems interesting. A different account of the conversion here.
Anyhow political power will not come to Dalits unless education is widespread – no matter which religion they embrace. Mayabati seized power in UP but tragically tried to copy Congress and BJP with disastrous results.
Well something like Jharkhand is likely to happen. Here tribals say that a tribal is tribal first. His religious identity does not matter.
On a related topic,Yoginder Sikand writes about Muslim dalits here
Most Indian Muslims are descendants of ‘ untouchable and ‘low’ caste converts, with only a small minority tracing their origins to Arab, Iranian and Central Asian settlers and invaders. Although the Qur’an is fiercely egalitarian in its social ethics, Indian Muslim society is characterised by numerous caste-like features, consisting of several caste-like groups (jatis). Muslims who claim foreign descent claim a superior status for themselves as ashraf or ‘noble’. Descendants of indigenous converts are, on the other hand, commonly referred to contemptuously as ajlaf or ‘base’ or ‘lowly’. [Link]
The foremost priority for the AIBMM is to get recognition from the Indian state for the over 100 million ‘Dalit Muslims’ as Scheduled Castes so that they can avail of the same benefits that the Hindu, Sikh and Buddhist Scheduled castes enjoy, including reserved government jobs, reserved seats in state legislatures and in the Indian Parliament, special courts to try cases of atrocities against them as well as social and economic development programmes meant specially for them.
In articulating a separate Dalit Muslim identity it finds itself at odds with the traditional, largely ‘high’ caste Muslim leadership, which, in seeking to speak for all Muslims, sees the question of caste that the AIBMM so stridently stresses as divisive. Leading Muslim spokesmen have, not surprisingly, accused the AIBMM of seeking to create divisions within the Muslim community and of spreading ‘casteism’, and thus playing into the hands of militant Hindus.
Ali is bitterly critical of the traditional, largely ‘high’ caste, Muslim leadership, both `ulama as well as ‘lay’. Over the centuries of Muslim rule, he says, the ruling class among the Muslims displayed little concern for the plight of the Dalit Muslims, who remained tied down to their traditional occupations, mired in poverty and ignorance. The only concern of the ruling class Muslims, he writes, was to perpetuate their own rule, and for this they entered into alliances with ‘upper’ caste Hindus, keeping the Dalits, both Hindus as well as Muslims, cruelly suppressed under their firm control.This disdain for the Dalits, he writes, carried down right through the period of Muslim rule, and continues till this very day.
Ali calls for a ‘power shift’ from the ‘Arab-origin ashraf’ to the ‘oppressed Muslims’. Denying that his struggle is aimed against the `upper’ caste Muslims, he says that it is directed principally at the government, to force it to grant Scheduled Caste status to the Dalit Muslims.[link]
Until such times as religion plays a central role in human life, there will always be those who will misappropriate it to oppress others. I won’t toe the Richard Dawkins line and say religion is the root of all evil and I can understand why people want to reject a religion that has brought them nothing but misery, but to think that people can convert their way out of such misery is naive. May be I’m just a mubmling idiot, but those are my thoughts. I especially feel sorry for those that are being seduced by Christianity (again, I can fully understand), which has been used to cause untold misery to mankind.
Dear Nanda, it’s because of Christian genius that this world runs. And it is Indians who are running to Christian countries, disowning their own “Hindustan.” I’m sure you have your own pre-conceived notions of Christianity but it is Christianity that formed the basis of the western legal system that India eagerly adopted. “Untold misery to mankind”?
Please give it a rest.
I dont think Indian Christians have the ability to bring untold misery to anyone.
The western system is based on the following: () Checks and balances. () Separation of church from state—religion stays in your home, not in public affairs That’s why India eagerly adopted it. Christianity gets no credit for the western legal system.
My parents move to the USA. the USA is not a christian country. It is secular. India is also secular. They moved from 1 secular country to another. Christianity had nothing to do with it. get over the idea that god in government makes anything good happen.
Nanda Kishore
whhoops, careful there !!
It is not acceptable to openly talk about the massive violence supported by christianity in the last 1000 years. You should understand that things like the Holocaust, violence against native peoples in the americans, massive expansion and extension of arab slavery model by european christians to americas are “cultural” issues or some sort of “aberration”. They definitely do not have ANYTHING to do with Christianity. In fact, as the Pope recently suggested at Auschwitz, many of these horrific episodes have to do with (gasp!) paganism….
On the other hand, science, medicine and modern goverment etc. are all definitely derived from Christianity. Plus all those who immigrate to the west are actually secretly harboring the desire to become christians, as they would be executed in their benighted former homelands..
Got it?
OH. MY. GOD.
How is that not an intolerant, anti-secular comment?
Yes, there have been many ills perpetrated in the name of Christianity – but that stems from a faulty reading, not from the doctrine itself.
rolls eyes, gets back on topic
My impression of these conversions is that they’re mostly a symbolic rejection, like a wake-up call to the government that more needs to be done for the dalits – yes, no, maybe?
I don’t see any practical gain in it for them, since people would still recognize them as dalits, regardless of professed faith. Nevertheless, giving up one’s faith as a means of protest is a gesture of real, palpable desperation – and hopefully people are listening.
Regarding the comment about Ambedkar’s bust at Columbia, I found the following page with a snapshot: http://www.columbia.edu/cu/news/00/12/ambedkar.html
I had never heard of Dr. Ambedkar before this post and am glad I know of him now. A figure to be admired.
the bible explicitly says some pretty horrible stuff. I could interpret it in a very uncreative way, and do some heinous stuff. people act like “if you have faith in the RIGHT thing in religion, and not the wrong interpretation you will be a good person”. but…the truth is, having faith in a thousands year old fairy tail full of barbaric laws and ideas and assuming its true without any evidence is fairly crazy.
I thought the roots of western law and civil code stems from Babylonian law (Hammurabi’s code), which predates Christianity. It also has elements of Greek and Roman (pre/post christian) civic code. Christianity has played a significant role in the west, but Babylonian, Greek, and Roman civic code influences are far greater than Christianity.
However, seperation of church and state is far more subjective. Religion has played an important role in almost every society. How ‘seperate’ church and state has been, from what I know, has direct bearing on diversity, how science (and mathematics) has evolved, explaining many issues away from religion (and how educated people have become, how much the world has become dynamic.) Historically, in a religiously homogenous society, religious influence is a foregone conclusion. It does influence how people or rulers organize and enforce their civic code.
I may be talking out of my ass here, though. Would any lawywer/historians like to expand on this? Am I missing something or misinterpreting here?
all you kannadigas … or if you understand kannada 🙂
here is a link about karnataka and conversions
aptly titled “inversion through conversion”… shows how manupilative conversions are
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2491552500831566730&q=kannada&hl=en
thats “invasion through conversion”…
krishna = 1/jesus
Shivam is wrong. Ambedkar is not the architect of the Constitution of India. He chaired the Drafting Committee one of the many committees of that august body, the Constituent Assembly of India – whose 250 odd members are the founding parents of modern India – which included men and women of all communities. Since Ambedkar himself was never one given vanity or envy, it will not be out of place to suggest that he was only one of the many distinguished and learned men and women of the Assembly. Ambedkar almost missed being a part of the Constituent Assembly as by 1947 he had few friends. IIANM Ambedkar (as was Sir CP Ramaswami Aiyar and many other distinguished gentlemen of their time) were members of the Viceroy’s Executive Council during the Quit India movement. This does not mean that they went over to the other side (as Shourie suggests) for quite a few Congressmen too were against the Quit India movement. The commies of course were the collaborators of the Brits in India during WW2 and many leading lights of the commie movement (some alive today) were informants and stool pigeons for the Brits and shameless recepients of what in Malayalam is termed “kai-coolie” Gandhi, among others, helped Ambedkar get a ticket from the Congress and helped him get elected to the Assembly IIANM from Bengal. Even if this post is not about Gandhi, since he has been dragged in here by Shivam we must put things in perspective. Gandhi believed that untouchability and the consequent oppression is not a mere matter of laws. Unless we transform ourselves and believe within that we are all one discrimination and oppression is some form or the other will exist. And how true it is in the case of India. While our laws have achieved a little it is the transformative acts of people like Baba Amte and Bindeshwari Pathak who have helped us make a clean break with the past. Others such as Dr. Venkataswami (Arvind Eye Hospital) and S. Vidyakar (Udavum Karangal) are among those few enlightened folk who uphold ‘maitri’ (friendship and fraternity).
Now even if Shivam won’t tell you – the category Dalit – is an artificial one. Within the putative Dalit class there are tens of communities. Ambedkar himself wasn’t from a very oppressed group. He came from a fairly well established community – the Mahars – and there continues to be a Mahar Regiment in today’s Indian Army. The Congress is where the extremely marginalised dalits found their home. Babu Jagjivan Ram from Bihar, and Kakkan from Tamizh Naadu being among the most popular dalits of their time, and thereon to more recent times we have had Sitaram Kesri (who is known to have never once hosted a relation, even his children at his official residence in Delhi), Buta Singh (A former Valmiki who embraced Sikhism), or Giani Zail Singh who hailed from a non-dalit but marginalised group among the Sikhs. On the other hand the “Dravidian” movement in Tamizh Naadu (supposedly a ‘liberational’ one) sidelined truly popular leaders most notably Erattaimaal Srinivasan (a very good friend i may add of my granduncle). We forget that in the ferment that was India in the first half of the 20th century, Ambedkar was not the only activist. Kerala had just witnessed the movements of Sree Narayana Guru and Sahodaran Ayyappan, there was Shahu Maharaj in Kolhapur, and many others and others such as Mahatma Phule even earlier. And among the ideologues who condemned the untouchability and ritual have we forgotten Prabodhankar Thackeray, Bal Thackeray’s father? Shivam seems like he wants to create a new communal group, not a political group. While Ambedkar saw marginal communities banding together to form political groups, and Mayawati and Kanshi Ram before her have already transformed BSP into a broad coalition (probably because they haven’t achieved much outside UP?). Shivam isn’t trying anything new. Contrary to what some may think “caste” groups aren’t unchanging entities and have evolved many times over and gone far beyond their original boundaries.
And as for biographies, the best on Ambedkar is by Dhananjay Keer. Keer IIANM was himself a Dalit (and lower in the hierarchy than was Ambedkar) and wrote a number of biographies over about 3 decades from the 30s to the 60s. Keer in the way of the scholars of his time wrote not only in English but also in Indian langauges (Marathi and Hindi). Keer wrote biographies of Gandhi (simply the best), Savarkar, Phule, Tilak, and Gokhale. Keer was very close to Savarkar and Ambedkar. And his biographies capture the nuance of the times that these new glossy volumes, little better than coffee table publications, lack. And Gail Omvedt is an historian only in the sense that a turkey and T-Rex can be classified along the same bilogical clade.
Ambedkar was a giant in a time of giants. Even the the ones among them who had chosen to given up their studies to join the struggle for freedom were well read. Some like Jagjivan Ram found Ambedkar haughty and were touched by simplicity of Gandhi who once said (more or less) that Ambedkar’s rage is understandable. And if he chooses “not to break our heads” it is because he does not hate or harbor any malice.
Kanshi Ram, the “Bahujan” architect, was not a Hindu, but a Dalit Sikh. I wonder whether the cremation controversy was over whether to follow Sikh or Buddhist rites. Dalit Sikhs are still routinely marginalized in Punjab villages. As an example, from a controversy in the Doab region:
Talhan offers special insights into the working of the caste system in Punjab as the issues there squarely address issues of political and social power. Jat Sikhs in Talhan have sought to legitimise their position by claiming that the Dalits religious practices place them outside the boundaries of Sikhism. Jat leader Bhupinder Singh says, “The reason we object to the Dalits taking charge of the gurdwara is that they cut their hair, smoke and drink.” He has the support of the Shiromani Gurdwara Prabandhak Committee (SGPC), which has been working to bar Sehajdhari Sikhs, those who cut their hair, from voting in elections to the body.
Many of the Dalit Sikhs congregate under the Ravidas banner. Ravidas, a cobbler-saint, is honored by Hindus and Sikhs. A prominent Dalit activist in the US, KP Singh, is a Ravidasi Sikh.
At a recent meeting in Talhan, the head of the ultra-Right Damdami Taksal, Mokham Singh, even claimed that the Dalit protests in Talhan were a conspiracy to destroy the Sikh faith. The Taksal, once led by Jarnail Singh Bhindranwale, has been at the core of efforts by the religious Right to strangle alternative practices of the faith, such as those of the Ad-Dharam, Udasi, Ravidasiya and Ramdasiya sects, adhered to by most Dalit Sikhs. Although the Sikh faith expressly bars the practice of caste, most villages in Punjab have separate gurdwaras for different communities. [Link]
Awesome Post, Sid. Thanks a lot to Ashvin and Shivram Vij for uploading that video on YouTube. I remember the time my Grandfather talked about his younger brother who was exiled from home, because he had married a Dalit woman.It took 20 years till the time relations were renewed,and this happened only after the death of my Great Grandfather,who was a staunch believer in the Caste System. It is going to take a long long time for a paradigm shift in perception when it comes to Caste is concerned,especially in India.I shudder to think as to how many girl-childs dreams of becoming a Doctor will be shattered by then, riven and smashed by these,our “Modern times”.
R.
Excellent points shiva, Quizman and risible. For those who think that Buddhist majority countries are paragons of egalitarianisms Buddhism comfortably co-existed with caste.
In Sri Lanka, people of the lower castes in Sinhalese society were denied ordination into the Buddhist clergy. The argument given was “how could one expect women of the higher castes to fall at the feet of men of lower caste”. The lower castes had to travel to Burma for ordination.
There is a caste of untouchables in Sinhalese society called the Rodiya. The Durava were the caste of toddy tappers. The Wahumpura were the caste of jaggery makers also considered low since one had to climb the palm tree to get the ingredients for jaggery. The Karave were the caste of fishermen. The lower castes frequently adopted Roman Catholicism to “escape caste discrimination entrenched in Buddhist society”.
All Sri Lankan leaders, except for one, belonged to the highest Goyigama caste. The Buddhist clergy remains largely Goyigama to date except for the two orders (Amarapura and Ramanya) that received ordination from Burma.
The Buddhist bhikshu has a very different role from that of a Hindu purohit. Since the Buddha rejected ritual and had no use for the idea of a soul, bhikshus have nothing to do with rites of passage. I wonder what the bhikshu was doing when he performed a 7th day ritual for the late Kanshi Ram.
The Buddhist bhikshu has a very different role from that of a Hindu purohit. Since the Buddha rejected ritual and had no use for the idea of a soul, bhikshus have nothing to do with rites of passage. I wonder what the bhikshu was doing when he performed a 7th day ritual for the late Kanshi Ram.
did it specify which buddhist tradition? in japan buddhist priests traditionally perform funeral rites.
Sena X:
thats “invasion through conversion”…
Dude, there’s an English version of the conversion video.
ah yes.. a simple search in google gives the english version 🙂
very well… now a lot more people will hopefully benefit from this
It is true that Buddhist priests in Japan conduct funerals. However, some of the practices – that we need not discuss on here – are simply the same as the classical Hindu rituals. In fact the Antarabhava phase that some Buddhisms observe (especially the Tibetan) – a time when the essence (soul for Hindus) is transitioning between death and rebirth – is almost the same in Hindu ritual as well. In the latter the soul is said to be in limbo for about 2 weeks before going on its way.
You have written about how Buddhism in Sri Lanka has a popular form and an intellectual form. I wonder if Buddhism in India too works in the same way.
The Buddhist clergy has always been a powerful group in Sri Lanka. Dr.Mano Singham (an educationist at Case in Cleveland, Ohio) writes about the bizarre things that happened when the Buddhist clergy had their way in Sri Lanka
I am amused to see Shivam criticise Chandra Bhan. Maybe because he actually helps people?
Just to be clear, I don’t have much respect for ANY religion. Also, I think my statement was quite clear: I said Christianity has been used to cause untold misery. So have other religions. In any case, I view religions as man made constructs, not divine stuff handed down by so called gods.
If someone thinks he/she life will be much better off by converting to religion X, by all means they should do so, especially given that they’ve had nothing but rejection and oppression that is apparently sanctioned by the religion they were born into.
As for accusations of intolerance, I’m not the one preaching from rooftops about how x religion is better than y or inciting hatred. Peace.
Ambedkarite Buddhism, as I’ve said over and over, is very different from traditional forms of Buddhism. In fact, Ambedkar called his Buddhism “navayana” (the new vehicle) in contradistinction to mahayana and hinayana. One would have to read Ambedkar’s opus The Buddha and His Dhamma for elaboration. And he did not have the best of relations with many other Buddhists: he thought they got it all wrong.
Some well-meaning people here seem to have some hostility to Buddhism as an option. Well, would you have preferred anything else? There was a grand effort by the international ummah to affect a conversion to Islam, I should remind you. Pleas and offers originated from as far as Al-Azhar University in Cairo. Sikhism was a grand choice as well, but the Akalis, under the leadership of Master Tara Singh, totally blew it. Let me leave you with what Ambedkar said the day before his conversion:
“And that is the greatest benefit I am conferring on the country by embracing Buddhism; for Buddhism is part and parcel of Bharitya culture. I have taken care that my conversion will not harm the tradition and culture of this land.”
Some “progressives” consider Buddhism to have been a “pseudo-remedy,” which leads me to believe that one of the great Indians in modern history did all right after all.
Risible, over and out.
It will probably take some foreign force to bring about any real change in the deeply entrenched caste culture. Just as it took the Brits to ban Sati, Human Sacrifice, Child Bondage etc. Though free India shamefully refuses to enforce the laws against child bonded labor.
Cant blame him for thinking that.
Its a rejection of brahminism, which like it or not has become equated with hinduism. Fortunately the dalits are not converting to Islam.
There was a period in Indian history when the majority of the population had actually become Buddhist..before Hinduism made a strong comeback (I think starting in the 8th-9th century). There is a school of thought which says that this resurgent Hinduism took on (or retained) a lot of Buddhist philosophies and rituals, which could explain some of the above quote. Of course it is possible that some of the Buddhist stuff itself harkened back to earlier Hindu phenomenon…or that Hinduism (which was never fully wiped out even during the peak of Buddhism in India) and Buddhism evolved side by side for a really long time, influencing each other.
Amitabh,
That’s a meme with nothing to back it. Devotion in India has been strongly non-exclusive.
Macacaroach,
Ishwar Chandra Vidyasagar and Ram Mohan Roy had to fight the colonial administration among other groups to bring about reform.
Prominent Indian female politician to embrace Buddhism
New Delhi, India — Bahujan Samaj Party (BSP) chief Mayawati and her followers will embrace Buddhism after the BSP gains an absolute majority at the Centre.
http://buddhistchannel.tv/index.php?id=42,3309,0,0,1,0
Note: Apparently, BJP has the most number of dalit/OBC ministers on its roster.
Was just listening to NPR on my way to morning coffee and they were talking about the ‘denial of colored people’ entry into restaurants/eateries in Wichita / Kansas and probably in a lot of regions in 1958.. Looks like Ambedkar didn’t drive south in his sojourn in America.. 🙂
89. Do you have a source for that ? Isn’t BJP perceived as an upper caste party. More Dalit/OBC membership is a routine slogan at chintan baitaks(strategy meetings).
This sort of treatment is deplorable by any humanistic account. But here’s my question, how much of this discrimination is based on economic status? That is, what features/determining factors are used to categorize people? If one of these individuals was given nice clothes, nice car, and lots of money, would anyone be able to identify him as a dalit? Maybe this question isn’t practical, as social mobilit for these folks is near impossible.
Cornell West, a prominent professor of religion who’s held appointments at Harvard and Princeton, written numerous books, and even appeared in the Matrix Reloaded (His line: “Comprehension is not a prerequisite for compliance”, when talking with Commander Locke), still I contend, has as much trouble getting an NYC cab as tyrone biggums in the US.
Perhaps Dr. West has an incrementally easier time, but it’s nowhere linear. I’d say it’s a log scale, that is y = log(x) * u(x-1) where u = unit step function, x = “net worth” , and y = ability to hail a NYC cab.
Siddharth hits it on the nail when he says, the issue is complex. There are socio-economic,educational,political, & religious dimensions to the issue of dalits. No single point solution will ever emerge.
See IG or IAS officer, Dalit is still an untouchable. Try google cache if the link doesn’t work.
The Golden Jubilee of Buddhist Conversion programme held on 2nd October, 2006 at especially at Nagpur, Maharashtra, India and remaining parts of Indian States as well as all other parts of the world is the indicator, how Buddhism as rightly brought out practically in our life-style. The book entitled “Buddha & His Dhamma” written by Dr. B.R. Ambedkar is gaining support throughout the world. The way and manner people are coming forward for embrassing voluntarily the Buddhism without bribe, incite or force in the entire world, is the genesis. what is Buddhism and why for Buddhism. Why people of the globe are discarding their ancient age old religions and peacefully accepting the principles and philosophy of Buddhism.? Is there certainly a need for leaving their orthodoxy religions and changing their life-style by practising Buddhism? I do not think so easily to change our thoughts which we are inheriting from our ancestors especially about supernatural things, they believe to accept them. Either we should think that that era was of barbaric, savage or non-scientific or science was not so established that time, and our ancestors were simply believing on natural forces, which we now-a-days knows details critically about each of them, or we are not living in modern science days, and consequently old customs, traditions, practices should not be believed by us, as science has proved those old thoughts as untrue.
There is a democracy in India and the world awakened people knows that this is the largest Democracy in the world. Democratic principles and philosophy as enshrined in the Indian Constitution written by Dr.B.R. Ambedkar, who is aptly called as the Father of Indian Constitution have mostly taken from the Buddhism. How Dr. B.R. Ambedkar so believed on Buddha who was there existed 2500 years ago? Did the principles and philosophy of Buddhism as propogated are not rusted, not outdated, non-scientific, as they are as old as 2500 years age? But this is true or incorrect or unique as consequently we believe on this modern science age, on the customs, traditions, practices, rituals, superstition, miracles, of our savagary or barbaric human stage. Is all old /ancient percepts are untrue, both yes and no because certain ancient practices have been proved as untrue by science and some ancient philosophy especially as propounded by Gautam Buddha have been proved as totally science based, true as well as universal till existence of human being. We should respect the Modern Buddha i.e. awakened one or enlightened one who have proved democratic principles as true which have been enshrined in the Indian Constitution. The way and manner of which Dr. B.R. Ambedkar shown emincipation to the world through Indian Constitution is required to be accepted as he has shown path for salvation to the entire human being through Democratic Principles. Many castes in India including Brahmins as well as other religious population including Christian, Islam and Hindu people are joining themselves spontaneously to the Science-based religion which will ever last. May the world take cognisance of this change and join science? It is expected answer as yes, because we want welfare of all human beings.
great post. i’m an american girl of east indian ancestry, and i follow buddhism, and i think ambedkar did the right thing by converting. may india again be a buddhsit country. also, siddhartha, by your name, are you the buddha? 🙂 people should read the book Siddhartha by herman hesse, for it’s lovely. 🙂
Siddharth:- and everyone supporting GAUTAM BUDDHA and B R Ambedkar’s acquired Buddhism(Principles).Thanks to you all.I have been in thoughts for years together,and was looking forward for a momentum on MULNIWASI Buddhism in India.end-of-day,to have great strong PILLARs (getting the best education,vision,mission to my depressed classes people) I am novice,have’nt read anything (except “Buddha and His Dhamma”).Now at the age of 35(running),I want to take a plunge and do some good for my oppressed people.
i want to have a manuscript of the buddha and his dhamma through online. use my id to forward it if any body has it my id is sariput_vet@rediffmail.com
After kashiram mayawati is doing lot of work which the congress & shivsainik wont do that exactly from previous we can see that every mahapurish life has come from struggle as per the mayawati and i am confidently says that after kashiram mayawati is doing better job as a CM
as per i have seen the history of mulnivasi i thaught lot of thing s but one & alone cannot do anything but if we are close & we are thinkers of babasaheb according to babasaheb if you are a thinker then from nobody you can loose
hello sir, i have applied in your aid society for the scholarship which u provide for the sc/st students.i want to know about your process for getting the scholarship as till date i didnt got any mails from your side.and i serached for your e-mail id but i didnt got any so please mail me your id on my account so that i can know about the details.. thanks
With regards, laxmi sankhla.