Red Snapper advises us that Kiran Desai was awarded the MAN Booker Prize for her novel The Inheritance of Loss just moments ago. Here is the official press release:
Chair of the judges, Hermione Lee, made the announcement at the awards dinner at the Guildhall, London, which was broadcast live on the BBC 10 O’ Clock News. Harvey McGrath, Chairman of Man Group plc, presented Kiran Desai with a cheque for £50,000.
Hermione Lee comments,
“We are delighted to announce that the winner of the Man Booker Prize for 2006 is Kiran Desai’s The Inheritance of Loss, a magnificent novel of humane breadth and wisdom, comic tenderness and powerful political acuteness. The winner was chosen, after a long, passionate and generous debate, from a shortlist of five other strong and original voices.”
Over and above her prize of £50,000, Kiran Desai is guaranteed a huge increase in sales and recognition worldwide. Each of the six shortlisted authors, including the winner, receives £2,500 and a designer-bound edition of their book.
The judging panel for the 2006 Man Booker Prize for Fiction is: Hermione Lee (Chair), biographer, academic and reviewer; Simon Armitage, poet and novelist; Candia McWilliam, award-winning novelist; critic Anthony Quinn; and actor Fiona Shaw.
The press release reminds us that Kiran Desai is 35 and the daughter of author Anita Desai. Also, according to the release, Kiran is currently a student in the creative writing program at Columbia. I’m sure her classmates aren’t intimidated! Salman Rushdie calls Kiran “a terrific writer,” which is more than he had to say about John Updike.
Seriously though: Warm and sepia-tinted congratulations to Kiran Desai and let’s all run out and read her book.
Interesting that the people in India most fervently suppoorting native languages are Hindi speakers from the Cow Belt and Bengali chauvinists.
As a Tamilian, the English language is the only thing that has saved us from Hindi oppression.
English is India’s only national language.
Whoa, DESI DORK:
calm down! I don’t want this thread to get too personal and take away from the topic which is about Desai and her Booker win.
But all I’m saying is that maybe you should have read the article because you’re still wrong about what she said. She was in fact talking about Indian writing in English and you must be aware that you took it totally out of context.
Secondly, anyone who isn’t a total freshie (and the use of the insulting-word-my-Dad-would-use, ‘dunce’, gave it away) knows that Tash is not a guy’s nickname. Shame. < — Look that word up, it’s from the ever-changing, evolving (New Zealand) English you seem to have such a love/hate relationship with.
Thirdly, If you want to call other people silly, stupid dunces, it’s probably more effective if you don’t start off by calling yourself a dork first.
Fourthly, I was wrong about the Chairman Mao and Black Power t shirt vibes. Me gettin’ a coconut-oiled hair, checkered buttoned-up shirt one from you now…
She’s a good writer. I’m not saying she’s the best writer ever, but she’s talented and has an eloquent, fresh, original style. So don’t live up to your name and give her a try, you’ll forgive her for her supposed scrawny-child hating in no time.
Seriously. And how can midnight have children? And grapes need an orchard, not wrath. The other day I bought some baby oil, but it isn’t made from babies! And when I bought a firewall, I was shocked to see neither fire nor a wall.
Your ignorance of hindi has already been confirmed by others. Do explain how you manage to judge one language clearly superior to another….when you are largely ignorant of one of them?
You also seem to be rather clueless about science and its requirements in a language. Hint: inconsistency is not an advantage in the sciences, as you foolishly imagine.
Always amusing to see the high emotion and fancy five-dollar words around the use of english vs. indian languages. Naturally, given the emphasis on “national pride” “macaulay” “slavery” etc. the debate has now turned into a food fight between madrasis (tamil-speakers) and biharis (hindi-wallas). I am sure all of this must be very emotionally satisfying but, of course it doesnt add anything constructive and shows the bankruptcy of this style of discussion.
What would be much more impressive if people could point to web sites or other resources that track and describe recent publications in hindi, tamil, bangla etc. The Hindu magazine section carries some weekly reviews of mostly tamil/telugu/malayalam books, but its pretty thin and seems to be based entirely on what shows up on the editors desk.
Does anyone have information on such web sites or resources? How about a list of literary magazines in each of these languages that are viewed as current and exciting? Are there translations or summaries available in a routine way?
arguing about languages and Hindi (which I only learned by watching Amitabh films ;)).. so DOOSHOOOM this ;)… I found out that Feedelix Wireless just launched the first SMS Hindi messenger… and learned:
Back to Desai and the true gist of the chana masala… kudos to her.. I have yet to read the novel..one of these days.. when I come outta my can.
I’m the real deal. As for my brothaz, those that know, won’t say.
And those that say, don’t know…
Desidork – If you’ve come here to insult people, you’ve come to the wrong place. Say something constructive or begone.
desidork – Do you realise that only 30% of Indians speak Hindi? 30% does not constitute a big chunk.
There are many websites devoted to Tamil literature.. http://tamil.sify.com/kalachuvadu/fullstory.php?id=14181530 You can goto that link and checkout the “www.xx.xxx” links.
Ofcourse they include daily newspapers / magazines / modern-post-modern literature (which ordinary people can’t understand 🙂 ) / dalit / periyarist / propaganda websites etc.. I’ve found a few websites interesting..Unfortunately, I don’t think translations are available..
Personally, I don’t think I can compare two writers writing in different languages unless I know both the languages / have atleast read the translations of their works.. Popularity of a language depends on a lot of factors..
When Mughals / Muslims rulers were ruling northern India , Persian was the official language and that made the language popular.. but you can’t see any trace of it now in India.. Who knows, the same thing could happen to English in the future..
I think he’s spirited and polemical but not overly insulting or foul-mouthed. Don’t think that should constitute grounds for kicking him out…especially since he comes from a POV that’s intrinisically opposed to the mindset that SM, and people like us, represent, i.e. Desi, English-speaking, not very fluent in other desi languages and/or or the cultural milieu presumed by that non-fluency.
On second thoughts, I think common day-to-day Hindi/urdu is a mix of persian/turkish/local languages etc.. So there are still some traces..
Difference is: Persian was imposed from the top, whereas English is growing in popularity from the ground up, inspite of various efforts to encourage vernacular languages.
All language discussions aside, I’m really looking forward to reading this book. And for what it’s worth, I loved “The Namesake” so much. I’ve read it three times as well as “Interpreter of Maladies.” I suppose that in the end, our perceived quality of a book is ultimately driven by personal taste. If anyone is interested in picking up some Desi-lit, there are two writers that I didn’t see mentioned on this comment trail. Chitra Banerjee Divakaruni is one that I like (particularly for her creative use of magical realism). I also like Rohintin Mistry, a Canadian-Desi writer. He wrote “A Fine Balance” which was an intricate urban epic that I really loved.
In India there are 14 national languages, with Hindi being the largest spoken(30%) (link). There are umpteen other languges that are spoken but are not officially a national languages.
Suppose as some said on this thread, let’s agree that science, tech and other modern stuff should be taught in their respective native languages. For Japan, Korea, China, France, Germany, Spain, Italy etc.. it is pretty easy. One language for the whole country and one effort to convert stuff to their language. There is a huge real cost, monetary and temporal, associated with it. It will be a distaster if a Telugu can’t speak to a Tamil guy and a Bangali can’t speak to a Keralite, when there are both scientists and working on the same project. There are more political ramifications to it (fragmentation of society along the language lines).
So one why not develop the modern stuff one native Indian language (Hindi being the majority minority)? OK, What are the consequences to the remaining 70% of India? Now they have to learn Hindi and then English to get ahead in the world. For other peoples, they just have to learn English other than their native language. For the non-Hindi speakers of India, it is choice between learning two languages (Hindi & English) or one language (English). Obviously it makes sense to choose English over Hindi because English is more global.
Agreed that language and culture are intertwined. But for most people in India it is more important to live and get ahead in life (ie make money). Culture, environment, language come next. So that is why people of India learn to speak and write in English, not because they like to be servile.
This is very exciting. Kiran Desai is perhaps as humble as it gets. I read Hullabaloo but haven’t read Inheritence. Might have to pick that up.
I’ll just substitute Hindi with Marathi since the same logic would apply and that is my tongue. I disagree because while I may have one or two expressions to describe me being sick or happy or angry in English, Marathi allows me different levels of depth of that emotion and several words to describe the same emotion and I find it so rich to describe exactly how I feel.
One thing to note there has been never a new innovation or technology from hindi/tamil/telugu/whatever speaking Indians in the latest technology. If we had the capapbility to find something pathbreaking maybe we can start by naming it in Indian words(I dont think Chandra x-ray observatory counts). But then there are not many tech words available in Indian languages. As a matter of fact I know there was a Tamil consortium formed by writer Sujata to find words for latest technology like web/internet/bits/bytes/terabyte. Some of the new tamil words invented are funny. So unless someone in India discover something pathbreaking and lead the way to technological innvoations it is not gonna happen. Especially everyone working for microsoft and google are only going to get their patents licensed by multinational companies.
What other way is there to judge a book or any art?
Here is one. It has a lot of literature and softwares.
Great news. Congratulations Kiran!
So its not reliance on a foreign language that accounts for India’s backwardness, but a congenital incapability “to find something pathbreaking”? Basically, you are saying that indians are just too dumb to do original science, in any language. Correct me if I read you wrong.
The choice did not have to be between hindi or english. There are more bengali speakers than japanese speakers and more tamil speakers than korean speakers. Translating and teaching science in a number of the regional languages would have served the subcontinent better than slavishly adopting a foreign language. After six decades of this slavishness, less than 10% of Indians even understand some english; and India has slipped even further behind the rest of the world.
The Sahitya Academy of India brings out an excellent quarterly journal, called Contemporary Indian Literature . It provides translations of short stories and novel excerpts from 22 Indian languages(including english). In my experience it is usually available at university libraries in the US, and you can get a subscription in India by writing to them. They charge a pretty nominal fee. There is also a hindi version available going by the name of Samkaleen Bhartiya Sahitya, which also carries translations from other languages.
There are also quite a few independent literary magazines: I can only talk of hindi, and I know of Hans(most successful, pro-left- editor Rajendra Yadav is a card-carrying communist), also Tadbhav, Vartaman Sahitya, Katha desh, Pahal.
This is a correlation, not cause-effect. Germany and Japan were both colonial powers, for instance. After the war too, the West put in a lot of money and effort into their reconstruction (+ their own hard work). Also, I noticed that everyone in Germany knew English. They learn it in school just like Indians learn it. This does help them. I do see a lot of sense in what you say, though. Macacaroach, thanks for opening my eyes to a new point of view. So far, I’ve only heard Hindi vs. English. I’d go with the latter any day if I had to choose.
Kurma, there is NO similarity to German kids learning English and Indian kids learning English. Germans learn it as a foreign language, as a subject in an otherwhise German-medium education. They rarely achieve first-language proficiency in it, and even when they do, they never speak it with friends/family, etc (even if all concerned are proficient in English). They do not speak it with their kids at home, nor do they use it as a tool to keep the majority of their compatriots down. Lastly, they remain absolutely fluent in German, far better than they ever become in English. In India on the other hand, one’s entire education is in English-medium, and Indian languages are merely subjects (that too, often poorly-taught). More alarmingly, due to the immense advantages and snob-value that English is perceived to have, more and more parents are making it a point to speak English with their small children (right from infancy on). These kids grow up in an environment where parents, aunts/uncles, siblings, cousins, friends, and neighbours, are often largely English-speakers. So the only people left that a kid MUST speak the mother-tongue to are servants, shop-keepers, rikshaw-drivers, and maybe grandparents. Not exactly a great way to become fluent and nuanced in your mothertongue. And predictably, many young kids can not really speak their Indian language, especially in big cities, and especially among well-off families.
http://www.hindiblogs.com/hindiblog/
re Hindi links, see this blog. For example, it points out that Omkara has shades of Haryanvi hindi for UP “kirdars”. There are heaps of marathi blogs too and the perspective is quite different from the English blogs.
Amitabh, My point is that the “slave mentality”, “bowing to the colonial masters” etc, is not any good reason to do or not do your business in some language. There are excellent arguments for practical value on either side of the debate it seems and those would be the most interesting to me. Any good ones on that aspect?
Besides, the “language of the masters” kind of thing is hard to argue clearly about. This is why I pointed out Germany. At least, in subcontinent, the British ceased being the masters in 1947/1948. The Germans have US troops (victors in the war) stationed there. So I think learning English is a less emotional matter in India than say in Japan or Germany. Finally, India uses and needs English because of the US, not the UK, although English came there because of the Brits.
It’s not exactly like an American learning German or French. They HAVE to take it in school. Just like you HAVE to learn English in many schools in India and HAVE to Hindi too, if you are in a Central School.
Would you say Indians have first-language proficiency in English (even those who will speak English happily)? I don’t know again why you think that most Indians would choose to speak with each other in English even when all people present speak the same Indian language. The number of homes where English is the only language spoken is very small and such families are not exactly looked up to.
On this, I completely agree with you.
Again, it’s really rare in India (India is not just Mumbai and Bengaluru) to find people who can speak English better than their native language.
It’s true that there are schools and families where “speak in English” is tha mantra and these kids don’t think highly of their language and are not fluent in them. So what, though? Do these kids become less competitive in the economy? It’s not these kids that are at a disadvantage because of English. At least in the short term, a lot of Indians are benefiting because of knowing English. The current software, BPO boom is enabled in large part by the English skills present in the subcontinent. It’s just a fact of life that in the period after WWII, the world economy was centered over the English speaking regions. South Asia didn’t have an industrial revolution when Europe did and it was necessary to look to the West for technology transfer rather than reinvent the wheel. For all these reasons, the most efficient way to catch up was/is not to strike out a totally independent new path, but to work closely with those who have already prospered.
I don’t know if we Bengalis are exceptions (pariahs?) but in my (well-off, well-travelled, multilingual) family, the fact that I speak pidgin Bengali officially marks me as a disgrace. Some of my relatives over there have really hurt my feelings about it, not to mention the well-heeled snooty Kolkata acquaintances who loudly remark on how ‘strange it is to meet a bengali who doesn’t speak bengali’.
Those are reasonable statements. This is a complex topic. I think we are talking about two different things…you’re analyzing it from an economic viewpoint, where as I’m looking at it from a social/cultural viewpoint. Economically, I don’t have data to argue with you and you’re probably right; sociologically, I think it’s a very destructive course that people are on. I agree that India is not represented merely by the (for now) relatively small % of folks who have adopted English whole-hog and use it even at home with their intimates; however, that demographic IS the elite of India, who wield power and influence WAY beyond their numbers, and who everyone else aspires to be like. English is seen as being part of that package. Resulting in intense pressure on people to learn the language. It’s the only way people can succeed. English is vitally important in India not only (or even primarily) because of its importance as a world language, but largely because the Indian powers that be have made it so. As for people speaking it better than their own language – in big cities, among well-off families, and among the younger generation (20s and below) I think there are many who fit that description…and growing.
I don’t know where plain, simple love of one’s mothertongue has gone; that sentiment alone (if enough people had it) would have prevented the worst of what’s going on now.
Oh, I thought there might be good economic arguments as well for using Kannada instead of English such as
This, I thought is where macacaroach was headed. I’m curious to hear more along this line of thought.
Most schools (upto high school) in India are not English medium. The cities are very different from the rest of the country. But this is not central to the argument. You are, of course, right that the knowledge of English is a status symbol. Shouting at a govt. official in the vernacular is simply not the same thing as taking him apart in English :). There are some families that do their best to make kids speak ingleesh. But I think more common are families like DQ’s mentioned above where you aren’t really in if you can’t speak the language well.
I wish everybody could listen and understand the lyrics to the song Punjabiye Zubaane by Gurdas Mann (written by Shiv Kumar Batalvi). I have linked to it below (it’s the 2nd song on the list). Although it deals specifically with Punjabi, I think it applies to most if not all the Indian languages.
http://www.apnaorg.com/music/punjab/index-1.php3
I don’t have any data either. But what would your own personal experience be if you talked to random Indians, even in cities? One reason why kids in cities speak to each other in English or Hindi is that it is highly unlikely that all kids in the group have the same mother tongue, unlike, say, cities in the US or other more homogeneous countries.
Culture, I don’t know… I have a tough time getting my mind around the concept of ‘mother tongue’. Consider a 2nd or third generation Italian American kid. If the kid is to speak (let’s say it’s a boy) the native lanuage, would that be Italian or Sioux/Navajo? What about a mixed kid? Is it shameful that they speak only English because that’s what most convenient for their daily life? Are they sellouts?
Now look at the kid of Maharashtrian parents who only always spoke English in Mumbai. If that’s the language he’s most comfortable in, doesn’t that become his language now? If his lack of knowledge of Marathi becomes a hindrance to his life, he’ll automatically learn it. What’s the difference with the Italian American kid? Only in how many others around him spoke English. This number, I do understand, in India is related to oppression, servants, class and all the other social stuff. But culture? Are we bound by birth to speak a certain mother tongue or follow a ‘mother religion’? Should we be ashamed of not speaking the language that was not assigned to us by birth?
We have heard the argument that english gives India a great “advantage”, ad nauseam.
This argument has no merit. For you cant dance away from the fact that South Asia and Subsaharan Africa, the two regions that rely heavily on foreign languages, also happen to be the two most miserably impoverished and backward regions on the planet. Explain how such a great advantage can result in such great backwardness?
On the other hand, nations such as Japan, Korea and Taiwan, whose leaders didnt have the wisdom to see the advantages of english, rapidly achieved developed nation status.
Try and think rationally and pragmatically. Not slavishly and selfishly.
US allies all.
Also the most exploited by colonial powers. In the case of South Asia , one of the most densely populated regions of the world. And only the use of English appeared significant to you?
I think Kurma answered this argument of yours quite effectively when he said correlation does not imply causation (#124).
Kurma, no offense, but how can you not see the difference between an Italian-American kid living in NJ and a Maharashtrian kid living in Mumbai? Why not compare an Italian kid living in Rome with the Maharashtrian kid in Mumbai? That’s more equivalent.
Also:
Why do you want to come out with examples that apply to a tiny minority? Remember that according to you only a tiny minority try to speak “only English” in India? Please use the same logic consistenly then. For a 100% Punjabi living in Punjab, is there any debate what his mothertongue is? For a 100% Bengali in Bengal, is there any debate what the mothertongue is? Does a 100% Malayalee in Kerala need to wonder what his mothertongue is? Get real!
Brilliant observations Macacockroach. It is precisely such servility towards lighter skin that will stall India’s dream of being a major world power
It is very naive and ignorant of you to think that technology transfer requires adoption of a western language. If that was true Japan, Korea and Taiwan wouldn’t be developed nations today.
Am I the only one who thinks Macacaroach is a freakin troll?
just to echo what some people are already saying here, i once listened to an interview about a man lamenting his loss of the spanish language, as a mexican-american. and in his analysis, he lost his language because it didn’t pay the way english does. i related immediately.
when i was four years of age, i traveled to india for an extended trip and when i came back i had forgotten the english language completely, so much that i couldn’t talk to my preschool friends. so my parents responded with a heavy-english household so that i’d be able to hack it in school. my punjabi now can pass when i need it for sundays at gurdwara, but in the larger context of my life, even if punjabi is my home-language, english has become my language of choice for communication because that is what pays, in the end.
i can imagine the same sort of pick-and-choose issues for writers with multilanguage abilities. that and the fact that because of “colonial servility” to english and/or hindi, most people with the luxury to be a writer are primarily educated in the english medium.
it would be great to see “native” languages hit the global literary market, all the same. publishing houses, are you listening?
anyways, just my two rupees and all that jazz
congrats ms. desai! i am looking forward to reading your book.
Thought this take on Kiran Desai and Indian authors writing in English would be interesting:
http://www.telegraphindia.com/1061012/asp/opinion/story_6857011.asp
First off, this is only about culture. I’m not talking about the social oppression angle, which I totally agree exists.
I chose those two examples deliberately, Amitabh, since they weaken my own argument the most. Let’s see if it still stands. Else, I learn something new. I can get away much better with easier examples. See the end of this comment
Also:
Culture, I don’t know… I have a tough time getting my mind around the concept of ‘mother tongue’. Consider a 2nd or third generation Italian American kid. If the kid is to speak (let’s say it’s a boy) the native lanuage, would that be Italian or Sioux/Navajo? What about a mixed kid? Is it shameful that they speak only English because that’s what most convenient for their daily life? Are they sellouts?
Because I want to say something for these kids too. I have a friend who belongs in that tiny majority. He grew-up in India but does not speak any language other than English. He does not use English as a fancy language or look down upon those who don’t. His cousins and extended family speak to him in Malayalam. They all do fine. Yet, people constantly point out to him that he should be ashamed of not speaking his parents’ language. English is the language! Where’s the inconsistency in what I said anyway? In this paragraph (cultural aspect) I’m not making any arguments about the majority or minority, but the appropriateness of EVERY individual speaking whatever they want.
For a 100% Punjabi living in Punjab, is there any debate what his mothertongue is? For a 100% Bengali in Bengal, is there any debate what the mothertongue is? Does a 100% Malayalee in Kerala need to wonder what his mothertongue is? Get real!
What about the kid of Malayalee parents who grew up in Delhi, what is his mother tongue? My friend’s case was something like this. My own case is also like this although, I never had a problem with the language of my parents. What is a 100% Malayalee anyway since you seem to imply it is something in addition to simply living in Kerala? Can you provide a definition? Doesn’t have to be very precise. Here’s why I brought up the Italian American and the Maharashtrian/Malayalee – Suppose a kid born to Malayalee parents in Kerala prefers to speak English that’s not OK because he lives in Kerala even though he and his immediate circle are doing fine with that language? However, if he moved to the US with his family and spoke to exactly the same people in English, that would be OK. Is the culture police making life so tough in India? Why the Italian American in the picture? Because I know there are some who would argue that the kid of Mallu parents in the US should indeed know Malayalam. But how many people say that for kids of European parents?
why do you think he is a troll ? at least he is raising an issue and giving some reasons for it.
bengali, the macacaroach’s tone certainly is like that.
Heer #141, hear, hear. You said it well.
Don’t keep bringing up these three nations again and again. hundred times. Better to have technology transfer through mutual trade facilitated by “slavish” adoption of a language than by having foreign troops on your soil.
oops. that ‘hundred times’ was in error.
You keep making naive straw man arguments. Italian immigrants speaking english in America is not the equivalent of indians choosing to adopt english in India. If italians in Italy chose say japanese as their path to modernity, then we could say that they are as dumb as desis.
No developed nation I know of depends slavishly on a foreign language to teach its children science. OTOH, every nation that does so, such as the south asian and subsaharan nations, remains pitifully under-developed even after decades of enjoying the supposed “great advantage” of english proficiency. Draw the right conclusions from these observable facts.
Dude, Macacaroach. The Italian American is solely in the context of the SEPARATE about the ‘culture’ argument with Amitabh and nothing to do with economics or technology and stuff. Do I have to take two pseudonyms here to argue two separate things without being accused of inconsistency?
Yes, yes. All these Chinese people are developing very fastly indeed! We must act.