I don’t monitor it regularly, but when I do, PostSecret inevitably offers at least one confession which gives me chills; on September 30, a few of you shivered, too.
Dearest Pecola, I Want to Weep.
Sepia Mutiny
All that flavorful brownness in one savory packet
OK, its hard to know what her state of mind might be given the relatively lack of amount of information, which is reasonable. But, we all know this topic cuts a lot of us to the quick. We’ve all gotten to points where its hard for us for no other reason than we are desi/brown, ect. We’ve all had those moments when we “look in the mirror”. I applaud AMU for bringing this out. Is there pity? Is it directed at her, or it is directed at the choice we’re all faced with? No thinking desi has never thought to themselves, wtf is going on when something not cool happens. I remember a friend laughing at me when some ijiot told me I was the color of, you know. This was my best friend, we were in Junior High, and I was never able to be the same around him. My reaction at the time was not to internalize though. Because parrellel to any thing I may have encountered from others, I was brought up to know my history as a desi, and, it was a natural output that I became very proud. Some ijiot calls me something and I go home and remember my mom telling me about Bhagat Singh with tears in her eyes? No contest man.
So I think, there might be some pity in there. Maybe its misplaced. I sure hope its misplaced and that AMU has her sources of strength. To the extent an emphermeral thing can give support, keep your head up AMU.
Peace, Love, and Strength
AMU, I appreciate your postcard. It reflects a very simple, and very old truth about assimilation. Actually, such expression is probably one of the healthiest ways to express the disquiet someone might feel when placed in a parallel position to the one described.
ANNA
Personally, I find this to be quite specious.
i don’t think i expressed myself fully. i’m PROUD to be desi. i love my identity and what it makes me and who it allows me to be. but sometimes… i wonder what it’s like to be not me. it’s not about coping… i am who i am. and i’m proud to be who i am. i’m not white, i’ll never be white, and that’s okay.
Amanda:
I don’t know if there are regulations barring it, but corporations are definitely instituing policies in their HR departments prohibiting such questions being asked. At the last company I worked for, interviewers were prohibited from even asking what ethnicity a candidate was. Their interview had to be based on their own specific skills, work experience, etc. Realistic hindrances to being a successful candidate were discussed, but you couldn’t make conversation in the interview and say, “hey, so where are you originally from”? You really shouldn’t be made to answer such questions.
But there are ways to handle it with tact nonetheless. If they ask you questions about how an arranged marriage would affect your employment you could just say that regardless of the circumstances surrounding your marriage, it would affect your in the same way any employee getting married would, and in any case, it wouldn’t affect your job performance. You’ve answered their question, and still kept your business to yourself. 🙂
An interview is not the place for the interviewer to satisfy his/her curiosity. You are there to determine if the applicant has the skills necessary for the job. Questions about race, religion, sexuality are bordering on the illegal. Hence, the “overreacting”.
Not to discount that there may be brown people who share this sentiment, but I wondered the same thing when I saw this, having encountered ‘educated white progressives’ who veiled their own prejudices and insecurities in a pity party for minorities. I knew some who would do their best to convince me that I couldn’t get a job, buy a home in a ‘good neighborhood’ or even walk down the street as easily because of so much societal prejudice against my name and color. In fact, it seemed to really upset them when I said “You know, it’s really not THAT bad.”
“Christopher,
I think the analogy to India is the more appropriate one versus the idea of having a tan. While it might be nice to be browns-skinned from an aethetic point of view, the unfortunate fact is, our color here also marks is negative ways.”
Exactly, this is the same argument I’ve heard many whites use like, “When I’m on the basketball court in venice beach, they assume I can’t play just cuz Im white….” or something thereabouts. Just how important is playing basketball or “having a great tan” when compared to more intrinsic human qualities such as, honesty, integrity, vigilance, etc.. all of which are accorded to white people more disproportionately, a priori
But I think if you were in India, it would be hard for you, depending on the circumstances. I can see how it would give you a window into how your wife might feel here.”
I’d say a foggy window at best. The US has a irrefutable, undeniable history of negative treatment against minorities.
I don’t see how having a different skin color would be easier per se considering most of the brown teenagers I know act white anyway. It might be easier to be white if the person was constantly stopped in the airport by the color of their skin or got strange looks when mentioning their religion so I think adults would be more likely to have this feeling (and by adults I mean like middle aged). Most adolescents don’t even stress they are Indian so maybe this girl shouldn’t stress it so much if it bothers her to say the truth. She doesn’t have to make a big deal out of it unless her culture plays a huge part in her life.
HMF –
Are black Americans any more clued into desiness than white Americans?
Is it easier for black Americans to pronounce the name Priyamvada Subrahmanian than it is for white Americans?
Do black Americans understand and accept the concept of arranged marriages more than white Americans, and hence, are they less likely to inquire from above mentioned Priyamvada in the cube next to their’s at work if she had an arranged marriage?
Why is it white Americans that are by default accused of these things? Is it because the commenters here have very little, if any, exchange with black Americans?
That would be my assumption, because my experience with black Americans is that they are NOT more clued in or even neccessarily more respectful than white Americans of desis/desi cultures.
Anyway, I’m just really wondering about this after reading so many comments about whites in vis.a.vis desis on this site.
JOAT,
Yes I believe this. I am thirty four years old and have had jobs since I was fourteen – and I’ve never once been subjected to the types of appalling questions people on this board have. I’m convinced this must be because of the equality provisions in the Charter of Rights and Freedoms. If you have no Human Rights Commissions, or their equivalent, down there, then some other legal action MUST be taken. To sit and weep is cowardly. Speaking out and protesting have ways of severely curtailing this sort of behaviour. After all, why should you suffer to get a job you are qualified for? Why should you be subjected to distressing and unfair questioning to obtain what you deserve? Even if you get the job, why should you have had to pay a steeper price for it? A lawsuit – in the absence of other legal alternatives – is to my mind EXACTLY what such situations call for.
“But I think if you were in India, it would be hard for you, depending on the circumstances. I can see how it would give you a window into how your wife might feel here.”
……….”I’d say a foggy window at best. The US has a irrefutable, undeniable history of negative treatment against minorities”………..
Um, in many small towns and villages of India, shop-keepers and street-roamers openly yell out “lal bandar”, pink moneky, to white people. If it’s not that then it’s “firangi”, “angrez”, “videsi”, “moti”, “putli”, whatever.
Where does this happen on such a scale in USA to minorities? Shit! You’d be slapped with a law suit!
And it’s not limited to the white firangs either. Plenty of my African friends reported being called out “kalu” to in the streets of India, real loud!
They obviously think we don’t know any Hindi.
DesiDancer, “Whether for straight/curly hair, lighter/darker skin, more/less money, fatter/thinner, more/less excitement, taller/shorter, whatever…” With your long list of bodily attributes, it almost read as if you wrote “more/less excrement”.
senaX, “what are the odds of this” — I’m still an unconvinced skeptic. Sorry, AMU, nothing personal, I just don’t believe you. Don’t feel bad, I don’t believe in most things.
Pardesi Gori,
“Are black Americans any more clued into desiness than white Americans? … Is it because the commenters here have very little, if any, exchange with black Americans?” The newly immigrated Africans are quite aware of Indian culture. The same is not true with European immigrants who seem just as Occidental in outlook and clueless about India as European-Americans (I hate having to say “non-hispanic whites in America”). And, remember that most commenters grew up in white suburbia and not in the black ‘hoods.
HMF – By no means did I try to use the tan/fair skin analogy to point out that I know what it’s like to be oppressed, because as a WMA (shout out to Pearl Jam) I don’t. I may get a small glimpse when I’m put in a situation where I stand out, but I don’t get pulled over by the cops if I’m driving a nice car and I don’t get stopped every single time at the airport. The US was founded by white men and white men have in large part ruled the corporations and controlled the media since the county’s inception, so things are going to be slanted in large part to the white male point of view. Yes there are some inherent advantages to being white, just as there are inherent advantages to being a male. I didn’t create these societal prejudices and rules and I certainly did not ask for them.
As for the tan/fair skin bit I was merely pointing out what Spike Lee did in Jungle Fever in that there is often this sense of dissatisfaction with who we are and how we appear physically. In my brief 33 years on this planet I’ve found that for the most part we as humans are more alike than we would like to admit, both in positive attributes like love and compassion as well as negative values such as hatred and racism. The Spanish and Italians get just as angry about their illegal immigrants from North Africa as the people of Arizona, Texas, and California are about immigrants from Mexico. The point is that we are not as different as we like to think we are. Sure we look different on the outside, we may speak a different language, we may pray in a different way and refer to God by a different name, but deep down in side we all want many of the same things: love, family, happiness, and a Porsche 911 turbo (just kidding).
Meeting people and learning about their culture and background is really the only way to break down the assumptions that exist in everyone’s mind. I might like to believe that I am free of all prejudices, but I’m not. I human. I am flawed and assumptions are going to pop into my head based on images perpetuated by television, music, film, and various experiences. The best I can do is to try and put those assumptions aside and just each person on his or her merits. The film Crash probably did a better job illustrating some of these points than my rambling post, so if you have not seen it check it out.
There is nothing wrong with wondering what it’s like to be someone else but in the end you are who you are. For what it’s worth AMU, I the postcard was though provoking and brought out a lot of good discussion.
“Ernest Hemingway once wrote, ‘The world is a fine place and worth fighting for.’ I agree with the second part.” – Detective Sommerset, Se7en
I don’t think is some kind of existential issue. Its hard to be a minority. Its hard even if you have money or whatever else you might have. Sometimes you wish the thing that made you different did not make you different. And yes, its because we’re all the same, and it hurts to be made to feel different. I think Indian people as much any other group in the US know we are all the same in many ways; because we see the world in kind of two lights; our world is an object lesson in that fact much of the time.
And yet, there is something quite sad about wishing you were not who you are because there is discrimination against you. Once you have felt that, the world is slightly different. To ask that question is not such an easy thing to do. Its deeply painful, and deeply hurtful. I don’t think anyone can castigate All Mixed Up, but we can feel in a way upset that this question is asked to us again. Its moments like these, whether on a blog or in some other way brought up, in which you are left really wondering; why? Why is it like this? I wish I had some words of solace to comfort my own unease. It’ll pass, but I am left with the question; will it always be thus?
The main difference is that we are talking about brown citizens of the US vs. white visitors to India.
This is true. But that’s got more to do with the pathetic state of India’s justice system and not the laws. You’d welcome to file a lawsuit in India. You’ll just have to forget about it leading anywhere. The main law of the Indian street is that you only mess with the weak and that means anyone who cannot produce supporters in large enough numbers (or hire gundas) if need be. Visitors can be favorite targets. The Anglo-Indians, for instance, do not face the same open hostility because they have their communities and other connections around them. In Tamil Nadu, for instance, the very word “pardesi” is an insult. In some small towns where I’ve lived, people in schools constantly dropped the names of local goondas/politicans/cops who they were related to or their parents were friends with. The story is different in big towns…
The way Indian society treats black people is outrageous. Much worse than the way white people are treated.
Agreed. Thanks for your honesty.
Let’s look at this a bit deeper, the first Europeans to come to the United States were escaping persecution, they were not the elite, nor did they leave in any kind of grand fashion. In fact, they were unprepared for the journey, and wouldn’t have survived had the native settlers not been there when they arrived. Since you seem to be a fan of quotes, here’s one:
“The Europeans were able to conquer America not because of their military genuis, or their religious motivation, or their ambition or greed. They conquered it by waging unpremediated biological warfare” – Howard Simpson, invisible armies, the impact of disease on American History
No, you didn’t, and no one is asking you or anyone else to feel guilty. Another quote:
“I am not interested in anyone’s guilt. Guilt is a luxury we can no longer afford, I know you didn’t do it, I didn’t do it either, but I am responsible for it because I am a man and a citizen of this country and you are responsible for it, too, for the very same reason.” James Baldwin, Playboy interview 1964
I agree 100%, but again, call me lefty, if a segment of the population says collectively they “get different things” based on certain differences (and there is sufficient history and evidence to prove this), irrespective of how superficial and “un-genetic” those differences are, it’s just as much a responsibility for the group in power to combat that system (if they genuinely believe in an egalitarian society), as it is for the group making the claims in the first place.
Respec
Um, in many small towns and villages of India, shop-keepers and street-roamers openly yell out “lal bandar”, pink moneky, to white people. If it’s not that then it’s “firangi”, “angrez”, “videsi”, “moti”, “putli”, whatever.
Ever wonder if this could be because of large-scale oppression of Indians during the British Raj. Indeed in many small towns, any white is an angrez. They are not sophisticated enough to distinguish yanks from aussies from brits.
Where does this happen on such a scale in USA to minorities? Shit! You’d be slapped with a law suit!
Get real-in the US, this happens every day in high schools, in factories…. You name it. There wouldn’t be courts to hear the cases if every single case of racial slur was the cause for a lawsuit.
Some of these comments are really bad–I cannot imagine asking such questions of a desi during an interview. If it comes up, address the problem. They used to ask women questions about marriage, children, etc., even if the lady was single and ambitious. Now they can’t. Things change if you speak up.
HMF commented: “Not to sound too “lefty” but how exactly is this a point of contention? Eliminating a native population, rebranding the elimination as “settling” or “discovery”, and building an economy and infrastructure on forced labor is liable to give one’s community relative advantages!”
HMF, do you ever stop. (ask a silly question) Slaveholders formed a very small percentage of whites, and included a few mulattos and a very few blacks; I know that of which I speak for I am descended from both slaves and slave holders; I have wills left by white ancestors leaving property and slaves(!) to their black or mulatto mates, most of which relationships amounted to common law marriages. Do I identify as black? No. Too long ago, too little portion, nor do they regard me as such in any way, obviously. I also have seen wills left by black and mulatto ancestors which mentioned the disposition of their slaves. They were usually more concerned about having them baptized than freed although both sometimes occurred.
As for the north, there was a significant portion of free blacks. Could be because slavery was not pragmatic there, but the abolitionists were almost all idealistics northerners who looked on southerners as living a crule fantasy of biblical proportions. Even barbarianism. In any case, the mines and factories were manned mostly by immigrants from Europe and by American (whites), by and large. The American South was pretty much an Anglo version of South America. Until Ford encouraged large numbers of blacks coming up from the south to work in Detroit, blacks were not a huge presence in factories, and when it was, their labor was paid. In fact, it is well known that the Irish immigrants, both in the north and the south, were used for the more dangerous and dirty jobs because black slaves were more “valuable.” This is a matter of record and was mentioned by a black friend who had studied about it.
If the U.S. as a whole benefited from slavery, it was indirectly. Sugar and such was cheaper because of slave labor. The non-plantation part of the U.S. would have progressed just fine WITHOUT slavery and would then have been free of its “legacy” which persists to this day. Slavery is a great a shame on this country, but this is also the first country to outlaw it and to fight a war with the ending of slavery as one of its factors. I am sure India and every other country in the world has things in its history to be ashamed of. You just seem to resent that Americans did so well for a while in spite of it. Generally speaking people live better here, in a material sense, than they do elsewhere. Otherwise, why the constant influx? I am not a jingoistic patriot and don’t really even want to live the rest of my life in the U.S., but I call it as I see it. The native people were displaced and “unpremeditated biological warfare” was waged against them? Maybe. They had no immunity against certain diseases, Again, a very bad thing, but it is not the first time in history this has happened and if you feel it was so evil, why are you here? You’re also part of the waves of immigrants that have been displacing them for centuries. I wouldn’t count on your color to exonerate you–the native Americans waged some pretty bloody and genocidal warfare among themselves, despite the current pc warm and fuzzy images of them as corn growing peacnics. My personal feeling is that a large part of the U.S. should be given back to the native Indians but i think the Mexicans are taking care of that even as we write.
With all due respect, that is not quite true. The United Kingdom was the first country to outlaw slavery.
Quote from Wikipedia:
“Following the work of campaigners in the United Kingdom, the Abolition of the Slave Trade Act was passed by Parliament on March 25, 1807. The act imposed a fine of £100 for every slave found aboard a British ship. The intention was to entirely outlaw the slave trade within the whole British Empire. The Slavery Abolition Act, passed on August 23, 1833, outlawed slavery itself in the British colonies. On August 1, 1834 all slaves in the British Empire were emancipated, but still indentured to their former owners in an apprenticeship system which was finally abolished in 1838.”
Allow me to be the first to flame you for this shrill and spurious nonsense. In my discussion with Vinod on the model minority thread, this is what I referred to — using Lenin’s phrase — as “Infantile Leftism: a leftism of gestures only, not substance or study.” Here’s the link to the comment in full.
No, you have a lot of work to do. I am busy right now but I can return to this thread in a few hours and give you some pointers.
So glad you asked. Check back later today.
Bidi, No one here is congratulating AMU on her feelings, and many have gently pointed out that they may be rooted in immaturity etc. But the girl put herself out on this forum in a gutsy way. That’s why people don’t want to attack her. If you read between the lines, many people here are telling her to grow up.
Um, there is a sentiment in here whose idiocy needs to be pointed out — but it’s not the one you have in mind.
Bidi,
I don’t see it as a larger community problem (except insofar as people are still subjected to such appalling questions during interviews), but as something akin to white and Asian teenagers wishing they were black. It’s as aimless and silly as that. People may be exaggerating to express solidarity with AMU, and perhaps also as a concrete extension of the Oppression motif which, from time to time, makes its somewhat ridiculous appearance on the sepia stage. (‘We’re so oppressed we’ve always wanted to be white!’) Gimme a break. None of the brown kids I hung out with ever expressed this sort of feeling. I expressed it once in an angst-ridden confession to my parents when I was thirteen. Who knows themselves at thirteen? My mom rolled her eyeballs and that was that. I can’t recall ever ‘feeling’ it again.
Reading these comments is becoming rather painful. First off, Bidismoker, I thinking your making an unreasonably large intellectual leap when drawing the analogy between those aspiring to be Nazis and those who might believe that life might be a little less complicated on the other side of the fence. Second, it’s not your place to decide whether its right or wrong to have those thoughts, and from your comments it seems like you are passing judgment. This discussion started out questioning why people have those thoughts, and what might be done to change that mode of thinking. Simply saying it’s wrong to think that way does not further the discussion with respect to either one of those questions.
It’s that feeling of wanting that power for yourself – to be able to be superior to someone else. The ass-kicker, and not the ass-kickee. ‘The white people have the power, so I want to be white.’
I’m not saying I agree with it, (I absolutely agree with you, BidiSmoker, but I’m just explaining what I think the mentality behind it to be.
You should not feel the need to censor yourself. I have no problem with extreme thoughts so long as they further the discussion and are presented in a respectful way. At least for me, whenever someone starts making a comparison to the Nazis, red flags are raised and whatever argument is being made immediately loses a lot of its credibility.
Bidismoker, Please don’t attack ad hominem. You’re embarassing yourself. Your tone undermines the validity of your points. I might say that I agree with some of them, by the bye.
Oh hello, slaveholders formed a small percentage for the same reason yacht-owners form a small percentage now, it’s a luxury. It’s expensive. Just because people didn’t own slaves doesn’t mean they objected to the principle. Either way, there’s sufficient evidence to show the economic strength and infrastructure owes a large amount to slavery – AND it’s ramifications. That is, 3/5 compromise to give blacks a lesser vote, Jim Crow, etc… As my man Chris Rock says, when I say slavery, I mean “From 1620 to 1965, plus or minus two weeks depending on when your town got the message”
AH yes,, Winston Churchill’s famous statement very relevant “America can always be counted on to do the right thing, after it’s exhausted all other possibilities.” I’d contend that ending slavery was not about recognizing a crime was committed, or that slavery is immoral. It was about practicality. The north couldn’t win the war and unify the nation, unless they enlisted these men to fight.
” Again, a very bad thing, but it is not the first time in history this has happened and if you feel it was so evil, why are you here?”
My being here has to do with circumstances I couldn’t control. I always love it when right wing people go on and on about how this country is great because it encourages free speech, dialogue and internal critcism, but as soon as anyone makes use of those rights, they’re branded unpatriotic and asked why they’re here?
“The native people were displaced and “unpremeditated biological warfare” was waged against them? Maybe”
What maybe? The first Europeans in the US were of the lowest rung in European society, they didn’t have access to medicines, didn’t wash regularly, weren’t hygenic, and brought a plague that decimated 50-60% of the native population?
“You’re also part of the waves of immigrants that have been displacing them for centuries”
which is why, when I lived in California I voted for Indian gaming to not pay “theea feaa sheaa” as Arnold put it, because as you verified, they kinda already have.
I don’t understand why some people pray to one god but diss another, I don’t understand why some people choose to eat chicken but not beef so on and so forth but I do understand that they are people who are entitled to their POV regardless of how ridiculous I think it is. Without emapthy life is devoid of connections and connections can only be made with people if you take the time to understand and respect their POV. Empathy is a character trait you can develop for free. It doesn’t cost money. And you seem in desperate need of some.
But you’ve never been young and you’ve never been in a situation that made you wish you were something other than who you are just so you wouldn’t have to struggle. Of course you didn’t. Reading your rantage makes me put you in a even lower maturity scale than AMU. You think wanting to fit in culturally is the same as wanting to be a Nazi? Jesus think before you write.
WTF I hope you don’t expect civility when you can’t seem to be civil to save your life?
In related news, my girlfriend tells me I am never again to compare my SIL to Hitler. Or Mussolini. Or Stalin. She hasn’t yet stricken Idi Amin from the list, though, so I’m going with that one for now.
I suppose I should grow up one of these days, too.
This is even funnier now given your apparent contrition. You, my firend, are the true definition of keyboard-gangsta…
I’d contend that ending slavery was not about recognizing a crime was committed, or that slavery is immoral. It was about practicality. The north couldn’t win the war and unify the nation, unless they enlisted these men to fight.
Stupid contention. You need a lesson in US history. Yes slavery did end because most Whites in the North found it immoral and ungodly. And that was a big reason for the civil war.
You guys are killing me…..hahhahaahah
Jilted_manhood,
You are not entirely correct. At the beginning of the war, Lincoln was willing to let the south preserve slavery in some form or another if the states promised not to seceed. After secession, the war began. The Emancipation Proclamation was only issued after public support for the war began to deteriorate and Lincoln needed a broader moral goal for the conflict that extended beyond preservation of the Union. So, while he did believe in the morality of Emancipation, Lincoln was also a political pragmatist and used the issue to gain political clout to continue the war.
That’s from The Metaphysical Club, by Louis Menand, a lovely historical text about how ideas, and the willingnesss to contend over ideas, drove the formation of American society.
The picture was complicated. There was a “war within the North,” as Menand says, but with time the continuing venality of the Southerners, combined with the economic pressure they applied to the North, united the Northern factions, and gave sufficient impetus for a war.
i have seen many (re)actions such as yours which have deemed it reprehensible but i haven’t seen one favorable reaction to the postcard … just because you can see where AMU is coming from and understand the reasons why she felt this way, doesn’t mean that you are having a favorable reaction to it
I’ll be interested to know whether Shruti endorses your comments in this thread. No infantile leftist, she. Fight your own battles, kid.
dharma queen,
i’m just catching up on the comments. thank you for the following :
The Emancipation Proclamation was only issued after public support for the war began to deteriorate and Lincoln needed a broader moral goal for the conflict that extended beyond preservation of the Union
More importantly keep the British from entering the wrong side of the war(Which they were seriously considering).
Simple concept. I grew up and went to a Junior High school where i was one of only 2 indian kids in the entire school. Back in the day every image you got about india was negative. You open the book and it talked about cast system. Any video shown in the class showed immense poverty and illiteracy. One of my Anthropology classes showed a video about female infanticide. These were the lenses thru which the world i knew looked at me. I haven’t read the entire comment list, but let me step out as one of the few guys you wished I was White(caucasian to be more pc). Was I wrong? Thinking back, yes. But was I wrong to feel the way I felt… Heck NO!!! I had my reasons. Every aspect of my life growing up would have been easier. I would have had more lenient parents who didn’t gripe about my one B thru out the year. I wouldn’t have had to learn music in strange languages I didn’t understand. There would probably have been little to no barrier on which girl I could date… no making fun of curry smell and the list can go on for miles. But i realize that my upbringing has made me a stronger person and i appreciate the values that my indian culture has instilled in me. Ultimately thats what matters, we all go thru stages in life including one where we wished we were someone else. But most of us grow out of it.
LOL you say down there like we are south of the equator or something. And the EEOC pretty much lays down the rules on employment practices in the United States.
Discussions during an interview can venture into a lot of directions and while it is the responsibility of the interviewer, the person being interviewed needs to take some charge of where the discussion is going. And this is why I said maturity allows someone the ability to navigate these kind of sticky situations.
To prove malice by suing is next to impossible. I’m not a lawyer but the suggestion seems impractical. I’m not questioning the inappropriateness of the questions I’m questioning the ability to really do something substantial about it in the line of “suing” someone. It’s just not tangible or feasible. People throw that word “sue” around a lot in the United States and it makes me cring everytime I hear it where it is not exactly necessary. There are plenty of agencies that one can complain to that do take complaints of these kind seriously without trying to make money off a bad situation.
haha. self-congratulation for others’ errors is a powerful opiate. takes the urgency for self-improvement away. things havent changed.
i was looking at a 6 year old’s multimedia presentation on China (made in MS moviemaker with slide show + voice overlay) the other day. the project needed to include something about wildlife, social practices, sport, clothing, language, art. so the kid had something about a tiger (tigers are getting extinct), a rather gruesome foto of a misshapen foot (they bind women’s feet), a shot of a flying monk (kung-fu) etc.
HMF in comment # 44; “Jane, this is true. But another question worth asking is, is firefly’s “wish to be white to ease things” and the fact that she’s in a relationship with a white male entirely uncorrelated throught processes?. Surely one doesn’t necessarily imply the other, but it’s not clear to me they are completely independent.”
Exactly! How many of us women determine our self-worth, wants, desires, etc. in relation to the men in our lives? Never before have I ever thought to be something other than what I am until I entered a relationship with an African centric black American man. It would be so much easier for both of us if I were a black woman into the same things he is. It’s always in the back of my mind how he probably wishes I were a highly educated professional corporate black woman like the women in his family and the women at his workplace.
I find it very disturbing that otherwise independent, self-confident women become filled with anxiety, doubt and insecurity when paired with men.
As far as women wanting to be men…… well, how come the majority of transvestites and transexuals are men trying to be women? Ever notice that?
haha. self-congratulation for others’ errors is a powerful opiate
True that.. but you can’t argue that those were\are not issues in India particularly on a cultural level. An older wiser person realizes that that’s not all there is to it. But for a teenager image is everything.
If a man questioned himself, tried to make himself better suited for a relationship with a woman and “changed” himself to accommodate the woman would you be as disturbed?
I’m not convinced if the above is true. Perhaps as women we spot male transsexuals better than female transsexuals.
JOAT –
I’m not referring to “self-improvement” in the above. I’m speaking of thoughts like, “if only I were white I my relationship with my boyfriend would be easier to navigate”, as in the case of the desi woman with the white non-doctor boyfriend who posted above and expressed a similar sentiment. Or in my specific case, “if only I were a highly educated professional black woman then my relationship with my boyfriend would be easier to navigate and I’d be able to fit into his social circles more”.
can i just ask why my maturity is on the line here?
i’m 26. i’m a grad student. i’m not a child. and my postcard reflects what i was thinking at the time. i understand how that can be offensive to someone, but its still what i thought and how i felt. and i’d rather be honest that the thought occurs to me pretty much once a day. that doesn’t mean that i’m not thrilled to be desi… or that i don’t go to india once a year for at least 2 to 3 weeks to see my family. or that i don’t read indian literature, go to temple, dance to indian music, speak fluent hindi, watch hindi movies, or do other things that i like to do. pretty much the only thing i can’t do is make a round roti… they’re always lopsided 😉
when i said i thought it would be easier… it’s because sometimes i get tired of feeling like i’m a walking talking indian wikipedia. there are somethings i dont know. and i won’t know. that’s just the way it is.
you can “throw up in your mouth” or whatever. i don’t really care. but i don’t want you all to assume that i’m a teenager who didn’t put a lot of thought and time into that postcard because i did.