As luck would have it, while at the frigid ND bunker and prancing around in nothing but her tropical New Orleanian wear, your intrepid guest blogger caught a cold and was forcibly isolated from the other monkeys and community computer for a week. Eeek achoo eeek! Hey, the New Orleanian cold front of 75 degrees and 80% humidity just hit yesterday, and this macaca yearns for a mint julep on her sunny porch.
While mired in the hurricane-force sneezes and sea of wadded-up tissue paper, cable TV overcame me and I fell prey to such eye-searers as As The World Turns, Dr. Phil and America’s Next Top Model. Dear Supreme Geek Council, please do not oust me from your favor for this transgression. Your humble servant was merely … ummmm … getting to know the enemy … yeah, that’s it.
Anchal Joseph of Homestead, FL wishes to go beyond model immigrant; she wants to be a supermodel. This 19-year-old sports flawless dark skin, ass-length hair, blue-tinted contacts and a desire to show her people that dark women can walk that catwalk, too. With tears threatening to evict her fake baby blues, Ms. Anchal informed Tyra Banks, Jay Manuel (a planet in the neighboring galaxy is missing its weirdo) and J. Alexander (and I do not quote), “Where I come from, light skin and light eyes are preferable to dark skin and eyes. I want to show them that I am just as beautiful.” Fair enough. So, why the blue contacts? If you want to win on your looks, where is the need for the prop? Then again, Anchal is the only one out of 36 who doesn’t transform into a vavoom covergirl when adorned with that other crutch – lots of makeup. She looks pretty much her beautiful same. (Aside: Check out this definition for anchal)
Conversely, the only personal features I find appealing are my brown skin and black eyes. My hips could use several circumlocutions of the block and 5’4″ isn’t anything to write Elle about. This isn’t to say that my extended family has risen above the inanity of Anchal’s experiences; in fact, I’ve been on the receiving end of such remarks for 12 more years than her. My dark skin has never bothered me, even when met with reproachful stares from the kuppai that populates my end of the South. To each her own pathology or just another plea for Reality-TVTM attention?
Speaking of this past week’s TV, was it the NyQuil crooning or did a segment of Chaiyya Chaiyya open a scene of the Smith premiere?
DesiDawg:
One more thing…if Anand and myself were public figures, especially models/actors etc. as Katrina and Anchal are, then we’d have to accept people making different sorts of comments and judgements about us…it comes with the territory…that would include whatever I said that you find so objectionable.
Amitabh Thanks. I will modify my original post in deference to your comment.
What is that? No one? C’mon aren’t bigoted, gangly, nerdy and delusional desi men who objectify women attractive? You mean these two wankers are condemned to a life of just that-wanking?
i keep coming back here as i need to procrastinate from reading… if you guys MUST have an ego battle at least make it entertaining for lurkers like moi
Amen to that. Everyone’s been flexing at each other on this thread. What is up with that? People are jumping all over each other trying to prove how the other person is racist and how they aren’t. It’s the weekend people lighten up.
What’s that supposed to mean JoAT? What is wrong with darkening up? 😉
chick pea (#143):
I don’t think this show has made it to India yet, and even if it has I’d much rather spend that hour hitting refresh on SM than watching it.
But I do have a source who knows about these things, and, being in the habit of believing anything this source tells me, I’m going to have to agree with chick pea and say that the whole blue contact lens thing was a strategic move to get Tyra to relate to her and “save” her from the unfair color standards which exist in her native land – Africa or India or wherever.
Question, though, since I didn’t actually see the show, wouldn’t actually see the show, and am actually talking out of my ass in a desperate attempt to address the original post:
What kind of accent did she use whilst delivering the line about “where she comes from?”
arg, sorry, bad formatting:
chick pea (#143):
A post about entertainment in India/Pak/Bangladesh (unless they are really hot) = 50 comments
A post about discrimination in Airports = 100 comments
A post dealing with a girl in a modelling competition which soon turns into a “hot or not” contest based on her skin color and its hotness (or lack of) in the desi mind —
priceless
Why is everyone letting Anand get away with the blatantly racist ‘only ugly white women pair up with black men’ line? The guy’s a bigot.
I dont have the link right now, but I remember reading about this research paper which included an analysis of dating patterns as determined by the ads posted on dating websites. Apparently white women who weigh more than the average woman on these dating sites were more likely to invite contact from black men. Supposedly the average black man is not as weight obsessed as the average white guy. Once I find the link, I will post it on here. That might explain the pairing up of some over weight white women with black guys.
Al-mujahid — Care to discuss whether its only the fat white girls that pair up with brown men? Or, if the black guys already have the slightly overweight goris, maybe brown guys only get the grossly obese white women? The grossly obese with bad complexions? And wooden legs?
This thread won’t make 175 before being shut down.
I almost dated an MTV India VJ. Ever since, its been all downhill.
Sincerely,
Ojbectificationistlier of Women
chuckle… 🙂 me too…
I think that certain people here are allowing their moral fervour to override their sense of decency. There is nothing wrong with being passionate about a cause if you are genuinely justified, but it crosses the line into self-destructiveness if you become corrupt in the process of achieving the “higher purpose”.
Also, to believe that it is appropriate to attempt to bully people into changing their minds about who they should and should not find attractive betrays a lack of insight into the way people’s minds (especially male minds) work; individuals react much better if they believe they have a positive incentive to do something. Screaming abuse at someone because their preferences may not be in line with what you think they should be is extremely counterproductive, especially if you are going to automatically assume that they insidiously have all kinds of heinous prejudices (insert long list of -isms here). This is not the way to achieve a positive outcome.
You can defend certain groups against bigotry and maliciousness — and rightly so — but nobody has the right to dictate to someone else (either male or female) who they should be attracted to. It’s a very personal issue.
There is a famous quote which goes something along the lines of “There is nothing humans enjoy more than committing acts of cruelty towards others in the cause of some kind of self-righteous moral purpose.”
Be careful that you don’t fall into this trap. To quote another cliche, “The road to hell is paved with good intentions”.
Um, that’s not a moustache, that’s how you tell desis apart from other brown people. We’re dark around all the cavities and folds …and I think it’s hella cute.
Amitabh,
Thanks for that photo of Katrina Kaif 😉 I think it revealed a little more than she intended. But she looks beautiful as always.
Sahej,
I’ve recently become a discreet admirer of Nelly Furtado too — what an image change, eh ? Her newly funky music is really growing on me too; catchy stuff.
Red Snapper recently posted a link on the News tab about an interview with her on the BBC Asian Network radio station, you can listen to it here (you’ll need to scroll down a bit). Apparently she sings Kabhi Kabhie very well.
I remember thinking that before the split-second delayed reaction of guilt came in, along with the revelation that my parents have brainwashed me with their theories of edumacation…and that the plumbers, builders and electricians who are rakin’ it in must laugh behind the backs of little brown nerds like me while my student loan accumulate slowly but surely.
Oh, if only my friend, if only. Don’t you worry just button up that checked shirt all the way to the collar, slick ya hair back and keep typin away about dem white women… if only they knew what you were saying about them, but oh wait they’re too busy gettin’ some…
Oh real! Thanks, so there’s many a normally facial haired person I’ve wronged. Well she looks like she’s got a natural mono, at least.
Jai – Don’t fall for it…it has been photoshopped 🙁
While we’re on this topic, I’d also like to state for the record that I object to the excessive analysis of Anchal’s looks and attractiveness (or supposed lack of it). It’s fine within the constraints of discussing her suitability for professional modelling — and, indeed, it’s appropriate considering her participation on the aforementioned television programme, where she’ll have to hear all this from the judges anyway — but it’s become excessive in some quarters of this thread, especially comparisons of her attractivess vis-a-vis Katrina Kaif etc.
I said this on the previous thread a few months ago where Anchal was first mentioned on SM, and I had the same objections to the more unwarranted disparagements of Toral Mehta and Kaavya — imagine if she or her family members stumbled across this thread and read some of the really insensitive negative comments about her. Amitabh is correct in saying that a person placing himself/herself in the public eye is inevitably going to trigger discussions about him/her — some of which will be nasty — but just because we have the opportunity to do something, it doesn’t mean we should necessarily exercise that option.
Chivalry may unfortunately be an old-fashioned concept these days, but let’s at least try to have some consideration for her, guys.
Jai, Good job playing both sides. You have a future in politics.
Right Honourable Jai Singh,
This thread is resembles ratedesi.com only a BA/BS is compulsory.
I remember thinking that before the split-second delayed reaction of guilt came in, along with the revelation that my parents have brainwashed me with their theories of edumacation…and that the plumbers, builders and electricians who are rakin’ it in must laugh behind the backs of little brown nerds like me while my student loan accumulate slowly but surely
true that!! But she ain’t any of that either. Nothing wrong with being a sales clerk, but the combination of not being in school at such a young age doesn’t give her any brownie points for intellect. I can hear the arguments already… “she’s an aspiring model.” Again.. good luck!!!
There have been many darker skinned girls blazing trail before her. Some one like Nanditha Das comes to mind who handled their situation with grace and dignity. If you really want a personification of true indian beauty, Nanditha is where you look. Does Hema malini fit the bill? Ayisha Dharkar? Just thought i’d throw a few names. Katrina Kaif may look pretty good, but I don’t think she’s a good comparison to Anchal.
chitowndesi—fantastic choice! das is an incredible actress as well as beauty… i had the chance of meeting her a few years ago…very kind person…and not like some of these ‘diva’ wannabe idiots…
:-O
quickly turning green…
Oh nothing really. Dark is better after all. 🙂 I love a slugfest just as well as anyone else but seriously some of the arguments are on semantics and some of these people fighting are actually quite possibly saying the same thing. I was just sayin…
Jai #163 & #168 right on brother. I’m with you. Just because a person puts themselves out in public does not mean the person should be subject to unrelated personal attacks. The good thing about direct personal attacks is that SM does at some point put an end to it. But I rather see a rude person called on it than just shut the thread down. The “civilized” bantering back and forth is fun 🙂
There’s no doubt that Jai’s forte lies in lecturing others – he does so eloquently.
I’ll reply to what I perceive as the backhanded swipe to my ‘bullying’ in post 163 (since you’re so up on decency, Jai, try to be honest about these things, eh?). I never said people SHOULD find Anchal attractive. I reacted with surprise that a thread on this young, beautiful girl (and many on here have found her beautiful)did not have one admiring comment on it. Given the record on similar past threads, where the first three or four comments have been sheer drool, this was surprising. Also, given the numerous colorist remarks which have popped up on various SM threads, I surmised that it MAY be possible the lack of response was due to Anchal’s colour. At no point did I ‘dictate’ to anyone who or what they should find attractive. At no point did I launch a personal attack on ANYONE (yeah I called Anand a bigot, but anyone who thinks only ugly/poor white girls pick black guys is a bigot).
Lastly, your comment about male minds being somehow more resistant to ‘bullying’ doesn’t surprise me in its narrow-mindedness – but let’s put it this way: I’m a woman, and you haven’t bullied me into silence yet. And that’s despite calling me ‘vicious’, a liar, and a’nasty piece of work’. Your words, Honorable Jai. There’s all sorts of bullying, and the ones that take place behind an ‘honorable’ veneer are the ugliest.
I surmised that it MAY be possible the lack of response was due to Anchal’s colour way off as far as i’m concerned. i believe ppl are more bothered by her statement. Maybe you were not, but I was offended because i come from the community where color of skin apparently matters. Thats the image that millions of ppl get when watching her complain on primetime tv. its unfair to make blanket statements like that.
I’m willing to concede I went too far with the whole Katrina thing…my apologies…but the way that DesiDawg and to a lesser extent Tashie chose to express their reactions to that is pretty poor too, in my opinion. That’s my last word on that.
If there is a message board somewhere on the Internet just for celebrities… I’d guess the comments there about “ordinary” people would make the discussion in this thread look like excerpts from the Sermon on the Mount…
Brown rocks!
there were ever a thread that desparately needed Razib-the-athiest-girlwatcher, this is it. Lot of misconceptions above.
i’m on vacation.
let me state for the record that dumb & offensive types like anand shit in the pool for the rest of us who want to offer offensive but not dumb talking points 🙂 beauty is not just a social construct, and i’ve posted on the topic before…but anand’s mismash, conflation of issues and poor handling of the research makes it pretty much impossible to turn the discussion, so i haven’t offered anything. if you’re going to be offensive, you offer cites. i have no problems with being un-PC, but if you are going to do that you better bring your game.
i bet money that anchal joseph sees this at some point when she google’s herself. type her into google, SM is one of the 2 in the top 10.
amen! brown rox!
Hmm, the real problem with the picture is not her looks (which are truly striking, she is a thoroughly lovely young women) but her clothing. And here I may be a bit harsh, but no more so than Miss Tyra so please forgive me for the fashion-blogging cattiness…I don’t mean to be mean and I would be lucky to look so good. But that is one dated look: the particular cut of the jeans, the too strappy sandals, the blouse, the hair, the make-up are not fashionable. It is not 2001, and even in 2001 this look would have been obvious.
The make-over the show will likely do will be interesting – she has an amazing bone structure to her face and quite a strong jaw. Shorter hair would suit her and lift up the observers eyes to her, er, eyes. Darker or different lip color. Either go really red/brown on the mouth or darken the eyes and leave the mouth alone. A bit more ‘matte’ base. Clothing? Hmm, dresses are a bit 2006 spring, or are they still okay? Imagine her in one of those new ‘bubble’ shaped skirts for spring 2007….man, imagine her in lavendar short bubble skirt. No one looks good in those things but models, and dammit, she would be able to carry it off. Sigh. I love discussing clothes even though I am sitting here in ugly blue scrubs typing this…..
Am I off in my analysis, fashionistas? How would you make-over this absolute stunner?
Yikes, razib, would she google herself? Why wouldn’t she, I guess. Sorry, if you are reading my fashion analysis! You look great….just fashion blogging is all, please don’t take it seriously 🙁
see here for what can go down.
DesiDawg,
Not quite. I think both parties are right in some aspects and dead wrong in others. It’s the self-defeating and counterproductive comments which I’m responding to. It’s an objective third-party opinion from someone who doesn’t agree with either stance; whether the other people concerned are willing to take it on board is entirely up to them.
I’m an ex-management consultant now working within the investment banking sector in London. The political gameplaying and egotism being perpetrated by some people on this blog is amateurish compared to the sharks I have to deal with, as you can imagine.
Negotiating around political issues and attempting to facilitate common ground between opposing groups is usually a constructive way to handle things — as long as one isn’t a source of the political strife oneself.
DQ,
As anyone with a more objective and accurate perspective would tell you, I was actually referring to the way male minds work regarding attraction towards the opposite sex — what inspires and motivates men towards finding women attractive for various reasons, which isn’t always fixed and is indeed frequently influenced by societal factors.
However, as usual your wild misinterpretation is very revealing about the way your own mind works.
Well, razib, that’s a good reminder for all of us….be human, and humane, people!
Janeofalltrades,
Re: post #175
Thank you very much for your message — it’s great to have you back on SM.
This whole issue has become a somewhat tiresome argument on this blog during your absence and it’s basically involved the same people hijacking thread after thread with the same strawman arguments and imaginary enemies. I’m sorry to see that you’ve been on the receiving end of the belligerence and rudeness too; this is now becoming a regular feature here.
Having given the matter some consideration, I think that the best way to deal with it is to just refuse to engage with such people beyond a certain point, at least if you value your own sanity.
I’m sure Abhi and the rest of the Mutineers are already closely monitoring the situation, time-permitting.
SM intern…calling SM intern: do you want to edit the last two sentences of my first paragraph? I read that razib link and I really don’t want to hurt anyone’s feelings, even in cyberspace.
Jai,
The qualification you offer for your remark about male minds makes no sense. Presumably the factors which influence women’s attraction to men are not ‘fixed’ either, but also influenced by a plethora of societal factors. You made a distinction between men and women which has no rational basis – but once again, I am not surprised.
MD, SM intern…calling SM intern: do you want to edit the last two sentences of my first paragraph? I read that razib link and I really don’t want to hurt anyone’s feelings, even in cyberspace.
I don’t think your gentle critique about her clothing should hurt anyone 🙂 I thought that she should change her top too (comment #52).
DQ,
There are distinctions between how male and female minds work in terms of sexual attraction and what members of each gender find attractive. This of course depends on the specific individual and there are also major areas of commonality between men and women in this area. But there are still differences in some aspects, influenced both by “hard-wired” biological factors and societal influences.
Correct, but I am focusing on men here because the topic is female attractiveness from a male perspective, as introduced into the thread by your own queries about why more male commenters here have supposedly not responded to Anchal’s attractiveness.
Please don’t attempt to sidetrack the discussion by trying to bait me or any other commenters here.
Jai,
Of course you never bait anyone at all – no! The endless references to insidious conspiracies, hijacking, my ‘as usual, wild misinterpretations’ and the ‘way my mind works’ (which you seem to know more intimately than the most intrusive psychotherapist) – NONE of these things constitutes baiting. Why not? Why – because they were voiced by the ever-righteous Jai.
I take your response above as a veiled (and of course long-winded) admission that your comment about ‘male minds’ was completely irrelevant to the discussion at hand. Both males and females are influenced by complex factors when deciding who they find attractive. End of story.
Razib,
Exactly, hence my post #168. Of course it depends on whether she would actually give a damn about what anyone here says about her. Let’s hope she’s mature and resilient enough to ignore the negative stuff — professional modelling is well-known for being a ruthlessly cut-throat business, so presumably she’ll have to be pretty tough anyway if she wants to be successful in her field. I guess all the rest of us can do is offer her some well-deserved congratulations for getting this far on America’s Next Top Model and wish her the very best of luck in her ambitions.
I did say on the previous thread about her that I thought she had the right look for American/Western catwalk modelling and for cosmetics/perfumes advertising campaigns (based on what many professional models in this part of the world look like, regardless of their ethnicity), but someone actually working “within the business” like JaneofallTrades would be a better person to comment on that.
DQ,
Nonsense. You were confused about why more men here were not responding positively to Anchal. You were then debating at length about the bigotry against darker people within South Asian society, which as we all know is particularly pronounced towards women. As indicated by this thread and numerous others on previous occasions, you think that hurling abuse at perceived male “offenders” is a way to change deeply-entrenched negative attitudes. In reality, the world doesn’t work that way.
I’m not comfortable with you calling me Jai anymore and I think that henceforth you should address any comments towards me by using the full name “Jai Singh”, which was my former handle on SM (along with many other matters involving the personalities of long-term commenters and the wider context of the discussions they have with each other, this is something you are unaware of because you haven’t been here long enough). If you are unable to stick to the topic or generally be civil, then it would be better for you to refrain from talking to me on SM at all in future.
For the record, you’re not important enough from my perspective for me to care either way about whether you have a positive opinion of me or not, so making repeated references to alleged “long-windedness”, “ever-righteous Jai” or any of your usual strawman arguments — which are now a frequent theme on your part towards large numbers of other commenters on this blog — is irrelevant to me and just wastes your own time and everybody else’s. I just don’t care enough about you to give a damn about your opinions, and I doubt anyone else here is really interested in hearing what you think of me either.
Now stop sidetracking the discussion as usual and stick to the topic, if you are capable of being a positive influence on this blog and a constructive participant.
Sorry tashie, I didn’t understand a word you said here. In case it helps to clafiry anything: I was talking about the extra melanin around the cavaties and folds. Not saying there can’t be hair too, as we do come from the hair belt, but they’re two different things. When I said “it” was cute, I was referring to the extra brown, not the extra hair 🙂
And Razib, that link ruined my brunch. Those guys were such racist, sexist assholes. Anyway, don’t you know the vacation rules? No cellphones, no computers.
out of curiosity, what do the gay females think about anchal. dont be shy. this thread needs a queer bend to make it complete.
oh is that what it is… it makes sense… i have noticed the puckers and the little wrinkles to be darker on some people but thought this is just a high-density area for hair – at least there’s this tamil sales clerk at the grocery store i go to and her upper lip curls up and it’s mighty dark between the lip and the nose.. i’ll give it a closer look next time. but i guess this notion of hair and beauty is a societal construct .. i thikn armpit hair is ok for instance, even hot sometimes… way better than imagining a straight razor going up and down going ghrr ghrr … even unibrows can be ok… and heck.. but belly hair especially if it is spread out far and wide can be weird. then again, i am pretty sure there are fetishists of all kind. and then in canada, women stop shaving after october. it’s a hairy situation.