Yesterday, our eyes were on the UK as British police prevented two dozen suspects from using airplanes for perfidy; today, I woke up to more disturbing news, via Reuters:
The U.S. embassy in India warned American citizens on Friday of likely terrorist attacks, possibly by al Qaeda, in or around New Delhi and Mumbai in the run-up to the country’s Independence Day celebrations next week.
Just in time for August 15th!
“We have urged U.S. citizens to keep a low profile, be alert and attentive to their surroundings,” an embassy spokesman said.
“The embassy has learned that foreign terrorists, possibly including members of al Qaeda, allegedly intend to carry out a series of attacks,” he said, adding the attacks might occur in or around New Delhi and Mumbai.
As if Mumbai hasn’t been through enough, after last month’s terrorist attack which murdered 200 people and hurt 700 more.
The information was gathered by U.S. intelligence agencies and the embassy was working closely with the Indian government, he added.
“Likely targets include major airports, key central Indian government offices, and major gathering places such as hotels and markets,” he added.
Likely targets include all of us, in some way. This is an extra depressing week…
It’s times like this when I am glad I lack of ambition for seeing the world and even the states that surround me makes me a winner. I havent left the Chicago land area for about 3 years and havent been on a planes in about 12 years. In conclusion, I am safe the rest of you are not.
Its only a matter of time before a terrorist decides to go on a flight with passengers coming back from a chili eating festivel and waits for the right amount of methane in the air and the rest is scary history.
I hear you Shallowthinker. I would gladly trade all the wonders of the world & the love of a good woman, if I could return to Schaumburg, IL. Do not let the world corrupt you.
Is this you 🙂 http://www.theonion.com/content/node/29383
Anna quoted:
some on this thread have asked why now? it’s an intersting question. according to the NYTimes:
One idea that has started to regenerate in my head and after reading several blogs over the last couple of days has been this… Where’s the real outrage in the Muslim world? As a Hindu kid who grew up in a Jewish neighborhood in a mostly Protestant country, I have always been a huge proponent of the overriding mores (e.g. separation of church and state) that has created our modern society in which the aforementioned was possible. At the same time, I also had the freedom and independence to come to my own opinions and express my point of view. This is what caused me to rail against Israeli abuses of Palestinians during the same time that we used to learn about the Holocaust. Yet even with all the lingering effects of colonialism, most of the world has gone forward trying to make for a better day tomorrow. Except, it seems, for much of the Muslim world? Imagine if Pakistan actually did spend more time and effort trying to educate all its youth (instead of pushing a lot of families to the dangerous madrassas)? What if the Saudis actually spent money on science instead of sharia-enforcing law enforcement? My heart goes out to the Lebanese, but one must wonder how much more Iranian money Hezbollah could have actually spent on more public works than going after Israel… a country the size of New Jersey. Isn’t it pathetic that 36% of Palestinian teens say they would be proud to be martyrs? You can blame societies and the world, but how about the home too? With all due respect, I’ve had an open mind, and I still do. But where’s the damn outrage in the Muslim world?
As for those of you who think that us second-generation Indians should return to our “ancestral” home. Clearly, you have no idea about what makes this country great. Moreover, you are being oblivious to human history and something called migration. When the Mughals first showed up in India, they weren’t Indian. Why don’t you try to also get most of the West Indies to get back to its roots?
manju,
osama was considering a jihad against india prior to 9-11 from what i remember. remember it was once part of the dar-al-islam, and his ideology contends that once you go dar-al-islam, you never go back.
Yet even with all the lingering effects of colonialism, most of the world has gone forward trying to make for a better day tomorrow
i don’t know, this seems too vague to say anything. i mean, what about africa? and frankly, if you look at social metrics much of the muslim world (e.g., the arab world) has better vital statistics than south asia (even including non-oil countries). i agree with the sentiment (i think?), but i’m afraid that i don’t have much meaty to grapple with here.
jilted manhood
I do think it would be an excellent idea to address the political grievances of all people who feel the need to murder others to advance their own causes. I think this is true both for extremist Muslims and for extremist Hindus. But I also think that the grievances of minorities are, by definition, easier to ignore.
In any case, I had a family member in the Bombay bombings- he escaped with his life, but his hearing’s damaged (we hope it’s temporary), and the man sitting next to him that day was killed. So my thinking, different as it my be from yours, comes also from a profound wish to see such things cease.
As for that “much-admired commenter Mr Kobayashi,” I know him well and I’ll have you know he’s a first class idiot, so if you don’t like what he has to say, don’t pay him no mind.
i don’t know, this seems too vague to say anything. i mean, what about africa? and frankly, if you look at social metrics much of the muslim world (e.g., the arab world) has better vital statistics than south asia (even including non-oil countries). i agree with the sentiment (i think?), but i’m afraid that i don’t have much meaty to grapple with here.
But I doubt they have the velocity of improvement, eg. tripling of pergap gdp in 25 yrs?
Or here.
But I doubt they have the velocity of improvement, eg. tripling of pergap gdp in 25 yrs?
sure, but when you start from a low baseline that isn’t hard. my overall point is that the political autocracy in the arab world masks the reality that in terms of quality of life there are many stats where it is far superior to south asia. anyone who has scanned color coded world atlases of human geography will know that.
sure, but when you start from a low baseline that isn’t hard. my overall point is that the political autocracy in the arab world masks the reality that in terms of quality of life there are many stats where it is far superior to south asia. anyone who has scanned color coded world atlases of human geography will know that.
No it is hard to do, or everyone would be doing it :-). But the thing is with a billion + people, any absolute growth in economic clout in the region is going to change the world somewhat, or even a lot, even if there is a an abiding chasm with the developed world per cap wise. Though I don’t think any country in the region rises to the level of a “power” at the moment.
Yes, Osama explicitly mentioned that ‘kafirs’ are oppressing ‘believers’ in Kashmir and Assam in his 1996 fatwa.. I was surprised at his inclusion of Assam..
what surprises me is the hypocrisy of this blog…..you don’t hesitate to paint the entire sister organizations of VHP/RSS/BJP as “fundamentalists”, without ever referring to the good deeds they do when it comes to natural calamities, education in rurual places(i know someone will point to the textbook issues)…etc….however, when it comes to categorizing the muslims…somehow you become tolerant…!! If muslim community does not become vigilant in identifying the “rotten apples” amongst them..and handing over to the authorities…they are guilty by association…the same logic you use to smear the Sangh Parivar….have you guys ever to been to muslim areas in Bombay/Hyderabad???…they hoist “Pakistan Flags”…I have personally heard the “Firecrackers” when Pakistan tested Nuclear bombs…they don’t want to sing “Vande Mataram”…Reason??…they won’t hold anything higher in esteem than Islam!!…if you use that logic…then, if war breaks out with Pakistan…would they support India or support the “Islam” on the other side???….looking at the events in UK…I wouldn’t be surprised…SO..the religion itself is an issue…Islam(where its majority) does not tolerate other ways of life…(dozens of examples)….ANNA & team…don’t bend over backwards to say what IS….muslim community has to do soul searching…otherwise..call it what they are!!!
I think this is complicated by a tendency to project our own political grievances onto terrorists, as a way of saying “look, this policy is so bad and makes people so desperate that they become terrorists.” We pick and choose the palatable grievances (Israel, colonialism, Iraq) but ignore the inconvenient ones (lack of an Islamic state, too much sexual freedom, sharia law, democracy, etc).
But they can’t be separated.
manju,
it is often important to understand your enemy so you can get a good angle to cut their throat. i agree about the part about focusing on commonalities, etc. the key is maintain some level of epoche during one’s analytic phase.
what’s an amfd?
It is a peculiar creature that holds the “palatable grievances” in comment #64, without sharing in the inconvenient ones.
The “Al-Mujaheed for Debauchery” is basically Dick Cheney’s worst nightmare.
Kritic (#11),
I’m the one who deleted your comment, and I have no regrets about doing so, as it sounded to me like you were suggesting ethnic cleansing to remove the Muslims from India. And indeed, you did talk about “cajoling” the minority to leave, and you put the word “cajoling” in quotation marks, suggesting that what you really meant was “forcing”. So the fact that you’re now trying to make it sound like you were just being ironic doesn’t really hold water.
When people talk about pushing all the members of any religious group out of a country, they’re in Hitler and Milosevic territory. Even if some members of that group are in fact violent fanatics (which no one here is denying), that is not the way to deal with it.
Award for best turn of phrase on SM today:
Runner Up:
–very clever Mr. K, you argue w/o arguing. I believe someone once termed it the salvador dali approach to poitics, where originality and aesthetics matter more than anything else…like zidane’s perfectly executed headbut.
Strange. All I see in today’s Hindustan Times is that a LeT miltant was arrested near Kashmiri Gate. Wouldn’t it be all over the papers if this really was happening?
Suraj I feel your pain, but you must understand that reality has a Hindu nationalistic bias, so we need to lambast any organization that supports such an agenda. And don’t jump to conclusions so soon, so what if muslims in India lit firecrackers when Pakistan tested missiles? Perhaps they were testing the firecrackers to thwart off the attack, implicitly insulting Pakistans weapons capabilities. Or maybe they were firecrackers of opposition, like “hell no we won’t go firecracker firecracker” You shouldn’t be so quick to assume things.
AMFD,
What do you think of the two state solution? If you do not like it, can you explain why ?
@Saheli
respect. total respect.
It is all over the place (300+ articles on GooNews).
Perhaps it is reality in the only Hindu-majority country in the world
hindu majority = nepal & india. respect the facts 🙂
As for that “much-admired commenter Mr Kobayashi,” I know him well and I’ll have you know he’s a first class idiot, so if you don’t like what he has to say, don’t pay him no mind.
Mr K:
Nothing personal. I could be mad ( yes I won’t mince words ) at Mr K’s opinions but not at Mr K, the person. I am sure you are a very likable guy and a good human being too. I might not agree with, but mostly I do appreciate an opposite point of view. I break ranks with conservatives on several issues like immigration, Dubai ports, or even on the Yale Taliban! I have however not heard or read anything yet that will make me believe that Islamic terrorists have legitimate grievances. I have however heard, read and seen too much to believe the opposite. As Bush-like ( and hence bigoted to many liberals ) as it may sound, I think it’s either we get them first or they’ll get us eventually.
I have however not heard or read anything yet that will make me believe that Islamic terrorists have legitimate grievances.
one may have legitimate grievances and still go about them the wrong way (understatement). additionally, there are different classes of islamic terrorists. the ones who kill their own fellow citizens are in a different class from those (like the pak-brit potential bombers) who work on the international stage. the former are tragic, but the GIA in algeria is not an existential threat to the USA. liberals do often fear to name the beast, but conservatives often seem intent on cutting throats willy-nilly.
Alienator
You will never get good answers to your questions from “liberal” folk. You see countries like Iran and Saudi Arabia have no responsibility for spreading values like education, math, employment training etc. They may be pretty rich but all this education-sheducation stuff is the responsibility of europeans, indians and chinese. Never mind that millions live in misery just a few hundred miles away from these countries (pakistan, eastern africa, north india). Never mind that a good portion of these millions are in fact muslim.
Its a strange world. Jihadis kill target and kill a professor at the indian institute of science. There is no outrage at this, no demonstrations anywhere. The indian goverment is soooo incompetent at protecting its citizens; it will react only when the political class is attacked as in the parliament terrorism.
Sigh…..
ref: Suraj #63– exactly! what was shabana azmi doing when the fireworks were going off in mumbaimohallas?.
Yes of course, because the firecrackers were most probably bought in India, and that money will do none other than feed India’s economy, at once burned, the remains will biodegrade into the earth, and I’m almost embarassed to remind all of the 1922 Agricultural Foundation of the World report linking firecracker residue and a 13% increase in soil irrigation, it would do nothing bolster the agronomy of the region for years to come. These conclusions have years of research behind them, not to be thrown around willy nilly, nor are they made by any Tom, Dick, and !xobile.
Gautham, before you freak out, HMF is being ironic. He’s making fun of liberals who make absurd arguments to justify/explain Islamic fundamentalism.
It’s not especially funny, of course, because no one here is doing that. But I believe humor is intended.
Suraj I feel your pain, but you must understand that reality has a Hindu nationalistic bias, so we need to lambast any organization that supports such an agenda.
A reality among middle class Hindus for sure. Mixed bag among the others.
My apologies for the confusion. I’ve been laid up with a fever the past two days, which is why I find myself with time to post and an impaired ability to read subtext.
And my handle should explain my surly behavior.
A great war is inevitable. The sooner we realise this the better.
A great war is inevitable. The sooner we realise this the better.
such hyperbole makes it is easy for the Left to sneer at the Right.
I never joke. and when I do, I’m never funny. Like the last joke I made, I was poking fun at gun culture at the annual NRA convention. It wasn’t particularly funny there either, but I never joke.
Al beruni (ref #80), please don’t affix labels to people. It is all too easy to villify those who have different beliefs and opinions than us. I don’t have a problem with that, I respect that. At the same time, I have a huge problem with people who think killing other people is a valid solution to the problems that face whatever society one lives in. This isn’t a liberal versus conservative thing. I made 400 freakin’ phone calls for Howard Dean in 2004, and voted for GWB in 2000. What I’m raising is a responsibility issue. As Hillary Clinton, who I really despise politcally, once said it takes a village. Well, my question to the Muslim world, not just the Arab world but all Islamic majority states is this, what type of village do you guys want?
(72)HMF and #(75) Gautham
To be very honest, its not that I “just believe”, I have witnessed them personally…so, I don’t have your luxury of passing the event as an innocous one…plus, I did my high school in an institution run by a muslim organization with only 10 students of 50 being non-muslims….. The teachers were great. But here are some of the issues, I experienced first hand in my teen years: 1.Whenever we practiced cricket in the evenings, after school, the discussion hovered around Pak team. How great and awesom was Imran Khan/Javed Miandad…etc. etc. I wouldn’t have minded if it was purely an appreciation of the skills, rather than a over zealous enthusiam of wanting them do “better” than Indian players in the Mecca of cricket (Sharjah). 2.They openly admitted in class, that they were stunned and filled with sorrow to see Zia ul Haq go away. 3.They did’nt think, they ought to sing National Anthem or respect the Flag. For a guy going through high school, this was an eye opener, for being among them….when I went to college, where we had representation from ALL states in India….it became apparent that, what I has witnessed was not an isolated incident or something that was specific to where I lived.
I also made couple of great muslim friends, who didn’t partake in the above activities. But they were in minority…So, when the perpetrators start having an awfully common characteristics, it becomes the responsibility of the community to “self monitor” and assist in the smooth functioning of the society. When a mullah makes a highly “seditious” speech, I expect the community to shun such leaders and help the authorities to take right action. But the reality is…its not happening. Whether its UK or India, the muslim community has a whole has failed to take corrective actions to prevent radicalization of their youth or they simply approve of such behaviour by ignoring it. Either way, I would hold them responsible…and would not accept their greivance that, they are being harassed…….
I don’t profess nor believe in stigmatizing a community..but, with the risks and with no commitment from them…I would not be so sure.
Razib,
Whether or not left sneers at right is irrelevant. Political considerations will be subsumed by economic and security necessities.
Gautham,
For some of the Hindu-centrism you would like to see, check out the yahoo group below. The messages are available to the public so you don’t have to join. Its Rajiv Malhotra representing “Dharma” and Vijay Prashad (The Karma of Brown Folks) representing the Federation of Indian Leftists. After a while, Prashad just stopped debating, though Malhotra kept at it over the years. The dialog still contains a lot of interesting information and is at times entertaining.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Dharma-FOIL-Dialog/
such hyperbole makes it is easy for the Left to sneer at the Right.
Razib there is plenty of such hyperbole from the left too. And trust me a lot of moderates right now are much more fearful of the left than the right. Besides the above statement is not entirely hyperbole. For every ( Islamic ) terrorist act that has been consummated at least five deadly ones have been prevented. If 9/11 had been thwarted and the plot been revealed a lot of the left would have branded it right wing fear mongering.
left bias, right bias… take your left and right wings and fly away!!!! you are all fascoi-communists… fully cognizant of the fact that hindu jamaicans salute the hindu flag every time hindustan plays floor hockey… and the muslims of india one and all salute the pakistani flag as well whenever pakistan wins a match!!! this is communalism at its worst and yet the “secular” liberal rightists refuse to recognize even one iota that it is in fact the worldwide conspiracy of Jews… I mean Muslims… that is responsible for all the world’s ills! you are all racist fascist leftists! and don’t get me started on the bloody Syrian Christians – who are in fact in cahoots with the Iranian Christians – and their propagandistic campaign to rid Hindustan of black rhinoceri and the Coca Cola which is in reality the modern manifestation of Kaliki!
Oh, won’t delete my comment, will you Amardeep? This is a prime example of Sikhofascism. Without thorough beard-checks at the Canadian border, Amrika will never be safe.
Amardeep,
That’s exactly right and I totally agree with that sentiment. What I found interesting is that this is exactly the foundation of the ideology of Pakistan. Every leader of Pakistan from all the way from Jinnah to Musharraf as lived, breathed and acted upon this very ideology. The question I’d then have for you is whether you will agree to consider Jinnah as a righful occupant of the Hitler and Milosevic territory as well?
I must point out that none of the secular cabal in India has ever agreed to such a characterization. If anything, the left in India has never raised any voice against the communalisation of the subcontinent by Muslims over the last 100 years and the debunking of the Two-Nation Theory has been left to the Hindu right. The reason why many of us of the rightist persuasion ridicule the left is exactly the kind of duplicity that the left indulges in by not having the intellectual honesty to prove their commitment to secularism on issues of real significance such as this one.
A great war is inevitable. The sooner we realise this the better.
Yes, in fact the great war will be much larger than the puny WW2. The war against Islamo-fascism will be the biggest war man has ever fought.
Steve Sailer has done a series of articles lampooning the military abilities of American real and perceived enemies. Of course he ends up lampooning the Neo-Cons the most. Steve Sailer is a must read if you dont like the Neo-Cons (just ignore his analysis on immigration)
Here is some good analysis on the coming great war:
http://isteve.com/
Here is the full foreign policy logic that is bubbling under the hysteria:
Arabs who are shooting rockets at Israel, Iranians who supply the rockets, Pakistanis who try to blow up planes, Shi’ites like Ahmadinejad, Sunnis like bin Laden, all Muslims are “Them.” (Christians who live in Arab countries like Lebanon are probably Them too, but it’s best not to think too hard about this.)
3.They want to kill Us.
Our merciful strategy of trying to democratize Them by conquering Them just makes Them perversely want to kill Us more.
Trying to blow up Their weapons from the air doesn’t seem to work, as We have seen in Our war in Lebanon, and just makes Them want to kill Us even more.
Even if We did destroy all Their rockets and cyclotrons, They will still try to kill Us with Their sports drink bottles, which will only become more deadly as technology progresses.
Unlike sane people like Stalin and Mao, They cannot be deterred by threats of military retribution because They are religious maniacs who want to die.
It is either Us or Them.
We must run any risk to be safe.
Therefore:
They must die.
All of Them.
We have 10,000 nuclear warheads.
That should be sufficient.
My motto is very simple for such problems:
Jo dar gaya samjho mar gaya [He who gets scared, is dead]
I always look to my mentor, Gabbar Singh for such things.
To put a little perspective on the warning by the embassy, I don’t think it needs a great intelligence service to give out warnings like:
“…in the days leading up to the independence day celebrations there is a possibility of attacks blah blah blah…”.
It is the same crap that Tom Ridge peddled for a couple of years stateside. Nothing specific. The Indian news channels are running with this worthless (IMHO) news item because it sounds impressive in light of the Heathrow business.
Everybody knows that the islamic fundamentalists always plan something for these times. The govt knows it, the people know it. The hope is that the govt has some info about this and can thwart the plans of the “aathankawadis”. The warning was meant for amreekan tourists who are usually blissfully unware of their surroundings. Just a CYA notice from the embassy.
Islamo-fascism and bullshit attempt to equate muslims with hitler, it will probably work. america and israel are the real fascists.
On descritics, Mayank has interviewed an Indian housewife, who is also a Muslim.
Guys, read that interview – she is one of the voices from where 150-190 million muslims live. She is quite well-spoken. Please read.
Kush. This is one of your interviewer’s questions:
You are from Afghanistan? That is very exotic!
lol