From the news tab, an anonymous tipster points us to a blog which took an amusing and slightly dil-warming look in to what tweens and teens in Hong Kong think of other Asian people:
When you think about Filipinos, what comes to your mind?
"Tak-shing Building!"
"They know how to sweep the floor!"
"I see them in Central all the time."
"Bun-bun. Filipina girls. But I have never met a Filipino guy yet."Do you feel that you disrespect them by calling them such names?
"Hey, they come here to work. We have more money than they have. They are getting paid, so wouldn’t you say that they can be ordered around?"Someday, you will be working and earning money too, and you will give spending money to your mother. Does that mean that you can order your mother around?
"But how can that be the same? My mother is not a Filipina."
Awesome. And now, on to the germane part (aside: does anyone know what “Ah Cha” means?):
When you think about Indians, what comes to your mind?
"They’re very ugly!"
"Some of them wrap their heads up. Some have a red dot in the forehead. They have big beards."
"They’re Ah Cha (阿差). Why do you have to ask?"
"Hey, how can you be like that? Do you know what they call us Hong Kong people?"
"I don’t know."
"They call us ‘friends’."
Finally … finally I heard something that passes as acceptable!!! I went from wanting to cry out of despair to wanting to cry out because I was touched! A three-hour class with twenty young Hong Kong students between the ages of 9 to 15. Sixteen of them said the above, three maintained their silence and a girl said that last thing … luckily, among the twenty, one of them was decent.
To the parents of the children — how are you teaching your children!!!!!
No worries, yaar. We’re teaching our children to be equally obnoxious. 😉
:+:
I just couldn’t resist that picture. Can you? Cute brown kids: my favorite way to start the day. 😀
Dude, aren’t you from Oregon? Daz a village pretending to be a state.
hell yeah! and god’s very own country to boot!
if you want me to generalize from my travels across the country…
northeast = fast competent, if sometimes rude, service (these are the large cities, vermont is quite polite) southeast = slow and stupid, but really polite, service southwest = service by a lot of small brown-skinned people with fragmented english, but quick to attention northwest = service by people with degrees in english and who are competent and nice
we invented starbux 🙂
Not rude, just a bit brusque. I get annoyed when my cashier tries to chit chat with me. Remember, NYC was ranked the most polite city in the world!
Could we get somewhat ontopic? Not to be cranky but us non-Americans can’t follow much of the above discussion.
By the way, I’ve been to both Dallas and Houston and I hated it. But then I pretty much despise the whole setup of American cities in general – can’t go anywhere without a car.
meena,
are you from amsterdam or another city? i just visited amsterdam, and i love the fact that bikes are the main form of transportation! that, and it’s so easy to take the tram anywhere. of course, it’s easier to do that within the city itself, it’s hard to do that in spread out metropolitan cities like Dallas and Houston.
It’s the other way around, nivritti. The cities are spread out precisely because the automobile is one of America’s self-defining myths. The widespread use of bicycles for basic transportation needs requires a rather different mindset than one will find in most of the US.
One thing New York City has that other cities in the US struggle to match is a deeply ingrained culture of pedestrian/public-transportation, and I wonder if this partly accounts for New York’s reputation as “un-American.” But even New York would be much improved by bike lanes, and other cyclist friendly measures.
That’s not true of all cities. In New York AND Washington, D.C. it is very possible to be car-free. I know San Franciscans who feel the same way. Hmmm…what else do all these cities have in common… 😉
ANYWAY, I agree with the Dutch desi, let’s get back on topic. Racist children in Hong Kong– discuss. 😀
The Chinese and other East Asians generally look down on upon darker-skinned peoples, which is sad. Even with an ethnic group darker skinned people are looked down upon. I think this is partly due to people associating darker skin with working on the farms. And farmers are less well-off, so there’s a socioeconomic factor, also.
In HK, from what I heard from people who were raised there, it’s all about the benjamins or I guess whoever is on the HK currency. I’m not sure what type of occupations HK South Asians have, but I’m assuming most of them are part of the working class, as most immigrants anywhere are.
All immigrants or minorities anywhere are generally looked down upon by the native population, so the kids’ comments are awful but not very surprising to me.
but I’m assuming most of them are part of the working class,, as most immigrants anywhere are
no. think vancouver hong kong chinese. or market dominant minorities in places like latin america (jews, lebanese) and southeast asia (chinese). or even indian americans in the USA.
Mr. Kobayashi,
You’re right, It probably is the other way around. And from that basis transpired suburban sprawl with the bigger homes for smaller families and affordable housing of the desired size for people who couldn’t afford homes in the city, etc. I could go on, but I’d go off topic.
I think it’s human nature to classify and create hierarchy. No matter how much a group of people seem to have in common, they’ll find a way to redefine themselves and create segregation within the group. When numbers are small people tend to assimilate more, and when numbers are larger you see self segregation whether it be by religion, socioeconomic status, values, customs, culture, etc. Classifying isn’t necessarily bad, but I think when ranking (who is better than whom) comes into play it will inevitably create a negative divide.
Dae Han-
The demand for “fair” brides persists. The skin lightening cream by Ayshe are advertised shamelessly on ZEE TV. Indians like their Bollywood actresses as light skinned as possible. Ergo – there is a skin color based hierarchy in Indian culture. Some African Americans have confessed to having the same bias in their own culture. Why should the Chinese be an exception?
I am not sure, though, if the root cause has anything to do with menial labor and the skin darkening effects of the sun. I would think it is the centuries of European domination of the world that has conditioned our thinking. Give India a sustained GDP growth of 8% for the next 10 years and it is brown that might climb to the top of the pyramid, and Sepia Mutiny will go down in history as being way, way ahead of its time.
Among these is a significant South Asian population, which includes some of Hong Kong’s wealthiest families
parsis and sindhis especially.
I am not sure, though, if the root cause has anything to do with menial labor and the skin darkening effects of the sun. I would think it is the centuries of European domination of the world that has conditioned our thinking.
read more. you find it in tokugawa japan and in you find it among the pre-columbian inca. european domination has resulted in preference for some european traits in some places (e.g., japanese used to find light eyes and non-black hair ugly, no longer), but heirarchical societies tend to prize light skin as a sign of aristocracy, especially for women (herakles was blackened because he was virile and outdoor, though chinese, who did not value martial attributes tended to prefer light skin in males too).
also, there is some within population correlation between female fecundity and light skin because testosterone tends to be inversely correlated with fecundity and darkens skin (within a pop. males are always about 5-10% darker on unexposed skin than females, and older females are darker than younger females). but correlations within correlations can obscure, so the sociological argument is probably best for now.
Indians like their Bollywood actresses as light skinned as possible.
and of course not. what indians consider “fair” is olive-brown “swarthy” where i live. if indians wanted as light as possible they’d import european origin B actresses instead of half-browns. what populations want in females especially in fair within their pop. range. nicole kidman fair, which i would hit myself if i wasn’t with a smokin’ lady already, is probably freakish in most of the world.
Razib, you’re so cute when you talk like a gangster, even though you’re a science geek (in a good way) 😉
That’s an interesting factoid. What it suggests, to me, is that there would be a tendency within a population (particularly those that have a wide distribution of skin color) to relate fairness of skin with female youth. Over time, this could affect cultural notions about beauty, in the same way that gray hair is held to signify wisdom, or a high pitched voice is considered girly and attractive.
But why this kind of thinking should transfer so readily to conceptions of other races, I have no idea. “Fair and lovely,” in other words, might be something that predates racism by quite some time.
However, you sound like a schmuck when you say things like this. The Chinese did not value martial attributes? This will come as news to twenty-one centuries of emperors.
However, you sound like a schmuck when you say things like this. The Chinese did not value martial attributes? This will come as news to twenty-one centuries of emperors.
han wudi, ‘the martial emperor,’ didn’t lead from the front. that tells you about how much the chinese value the experience of soldiery, as opposed to how much they utilized soldiers. but i know chinese history, you obviously don’t if you can make such a snide remark, or if you can imagine that the ideal of chinese culture was toward martial glory (e.g., the conquests post-1650 were by manchus, a non-han people). the opponents of the confucians mocked them for basically being wimps, but it was the confucian ideal of scholar-bureaucrats which became the archetype which dominates much of pre-modern chinese history. whereof one does not know, one should not speak 🙂
Not necessarily. Amongst north Indian populations, especially those from the northwest, “fair” in relation to women generally means “vanilla” or “porcelain” coloured. There is of course a slight gradation to what would be regarded as light olive, but any darker than that is not regarded as “fair-skinned” in the traditional sense of the term.
I would agree, however, that olive-brown is regarded as “fair” when it comes to men.
Already happening to a minor extent, re: Yana Gupta and one or two other Eastern European models who have appeared in “item-number” music videos.
Okay, my point in the post is not to say Houston is the best, nor to compare cities. A statement was made, that was baseless and incorrect, and I was arguing that. No more. You can tell me the world is flat, and I’m the type to argue you that its round, no matter how long it takes. Misinformation should be corrected.
Jai is right on this. Many Northwest Indians, Punjabis and Kashmimiris have white skin. I have relatives that do(sister, nephew). My cousin just had a baby and she (baby) has blue green eyes and light brown hair with blonde streaks. Dad has brown hair, tanned due to indian climate, his wife is white-pinkish with black hair. Of course appearances change, so we dont’ know how she’ll look later, but thats what she is now. This is a Punjabi Hindu (Khatri) family.
sp. kashmiri’s
I
The “cha” refers to barbeque, same as “cha siu bao” (Cantonese for bbq pork bun). It’s a reference to Indian’s skin colour – brown/black as if it had been barbequed. White people are “gweilo” (white devils) and Africans are “ha gwei” (black devils).
Most HK-ers experiences with Indians (or Indian-appearing persons) is with the guys who hang around Tsimshatsui and hassle you with questions like “Tailor? Tailor?” or “Rolex?”.
Don’t know how big it is in HK, but there’s a Singaporean tv show out there about a Chinese-Indian couple called ‘Achar!’. Link
36
Whose God is it anyways?,
I think youÂ’re referring to this situation. The link doesnÂ’t confirm the cause of the negligence, though that doesnÂ’t mean of course that racism and apathy werenÂ’t factors. The husbandÂ’s tactful statement at the end of the article seems to sum up the outcomes of both his battle and the coronerÂ’s verdict. It suggests more of a bittersweet rather than a pyrrhic victory for him. His involvement lead to the result and made the story known. On a collective level, while he (and others in a similar position elsewhere) will never meet many who sympathized throughout and after his efforts, IÂ’m ready to bet that even empathy from strangers can go a long way in strengthening a person in his or her personal fight. Public empathy can be in the form of behind the scenes moral support or active help, a combo that reminds me of a news story I saw a few weeks ago.
I happened to tune into one of the Indian cable stations and came across the last 2 hours of a 49 hour ‘event.’ A 5 year old boy in India fell through a 60 ft. borewell that had been covered loosely with a jute bag. Unfortunately, people accidentally stepping into uncovered pits isn’t rare, but in this instance the initial negligence, apathy, and social disinterest was turned around. It appears that the local authorities didn’t act immediately till word got out, and the army was sent in to rescue the boy. The army eventually dug a connecting tunnel from a nearby dry well.
Before the boy was rescued, contact was kept by lowering a TV camera and milk and biscuits down to him. It was almost surreal watching the cameraÂ’s images of the child, who, cramped in a 2.5 ft. space had pulled off his clothes and was huddled foetal like. Not surprisingly he was a bit dazed. His rescuer had to coax him to come up with him.
The live coverage was big news in India. Most viewers had caught it from the start. The ticker on the channel coverage had comments ranging from “Pray for Prince,” to “Don’t depend on God. Use your brains to think of something,” to “Throw the Politicians in the well,” etc. There were questions too about why the rescue was taking so long and if there was a better solution. These opinions along with the huge crowd grouping around the well kept the expectation for a successful conclusion. In that way I guess your handle is apt. As long as one has a kind of kind faith, religious or not, then the right thing can get done. In the end, Prince left the well on the evening of his 6th birthday. He was bundled through the crowd and probably wondering why there were people and camera lights.
He seems fine now from the follow up stories.
Hmmm, interesting. So the HK chinese do not add the suffix devil to their slur against indians? Why the exception?