Since I don’t watch these television shows, it’s a bit dicey to comment on the spate of shows featuring romances between black men and asian women, so I’ll let Rinku Sen do it for me: 
The sugary romance between the excessively noble characters played by Parminder Nagra and Shafiq Atkins on ER follows the much hotter one between Ming Na Wen and Mekhi Phifer that ended two seasons ago. GreyÂ’s Anatomy features Sandra Oh in an up-and-down relationship with Isaiah Washington.
What accounts for such interest? ItÂ’s as though these couples have been pouring out of medical schools and producers decided to capture the trend.
The representations tread the line between cultural authenticity, sometimes considered stereotype, and colorblindness. The women exhibit some level of conflict with their cultures and are slightly neurotic: Ming Na dreaded telling her immigrant parents that she was having a baby out of wedlock; Nagra quit her job in a bout of rebellion against family expectation to work as a convenience store clerk. The men are dangerous but tender. Phifer grew up without a father and has a temper; Gallant went off to serve in Iraq. I did laugh at the effort to bridge cultures, though, when NagraÂ’s character got married wearing a white sari. White is the Hindu color of mourning.(link)
If it’s on TV, is it a reflection of a real sociological trend, or simply a convenient image of happy multiculturalism from television fantasy-land? Sen’s article gets into some sociological explanations for the phenomenon, none of which are terribly convincing (I don’t think these romances have much to do with “American Empire” or colonialism). But she does argue that it goes beyond “submissive Asian woman”/”sexualized black man” stereotypes:
HamamotoÂ’s theory would suggest that such a preference was grounded in a sexual stereotype of submissive Asian women. I am familiar with our so-called seductress image. My Asian girlfriends and I spent our college years snottily rejecting the few white men who came around as “rice lovers.” While I did experience an American man mentioning the Kama Sutra within five minutes of meeting me recently in New York, my adolescent self-image was much closer to nerd than slut. To see all these Asian women who might also have been high-school nerds paired up with the most sexualized actors in American culture has been, I will admit it, a thrill. However, in real life, Asian women and Black men donÂ’t get to be both equally sexy and smart. “ItÂ’s easier for a Black man to get his foot in the door when heÂ’s with me,” said Aarti, “especially if weÂ’re working.”(link)
Class dynamics may be important in the appeal of Asians to some African Americans. And the “bad boy” image (stereotype) may make people of African descent more attractive to children of immigrants traditionally considered too studious and repressed (spelling bee/ math team champions) to be generally attractive.
Or maybe not: since there are no hard statistics, this could be just another Dubious Trend Story in line with infamous New York Times stories about baby gyms in Manhattan, or Ivy League women who decide to drop out of the rat race to become trophy wives. The next time you see an East or South Asian woman dating a black man … it may simply be that they are two people who happened to meet, and fall in love — irrespective of Parminder Nagra, and sociology be damned.
(Incidentally, for Bollywood fans, guess who played Nagra’s parents in a recent episode? Anupam and Kirron Kher, of course.)
Someone once mentioned a Sherman Alexie poem about women. I love Alexie and submit that this one that I just posted on my site as being more relevant to this post.
you should refer to the person in question, otherwise its a bit rude. I love Sherman Alexie as well btw
JOAT, that’s pretty much what I was getting at. And I agree on the slight oddness of a man without body hair.
But if the two groups HAVE to date each other, why are there so few couples that have this make up. I have only seen ONE black woman/east asian man couple outside of me and an ex in real life. And outside of my current relationship, I have NEVER seen a black woman/desi male relationship in real life. That is why I seriously doubt this:
Because there is obviously some reason for that gap to exist. I can only speculate the reasons on the desi side, but I know first hand a lot of the reasons on the side of black women to not date Asians. Or more specifically, indians.
…now i look like a plucked chicken but only between my eyebrows.
I’m totally with you on this, JOAT. Hairless men (either naturally or by artifice)…No thank you! (just spikking about my own preferences, my fursome friends, not to diss assorted ‘chikna’ chokras :))
I saw this in San Fransisco, at my gym, long before it went mainstream and started showing up in the media. Back then it was one of the easiest ways to tell somebody’s orientation …
Some of us are all for pairings with black women! That said, I do limit myself because I have a strong preference for natural hair over strongly processed hair – if she wont let me touch or play with her hair, I’m an unhappy Sultan. Perhaps that is a cultural bias on my part.
What do black women have against brown brothers?
That’s a tough one, homie. I’d go with Bito. Better conversation, I bet.
Dude, Beat’s pretty awesome, but Mr. K speaks 3 languages! And sings! And fights! Don’t assume the pretty boy is a dummy. 🙂
No offence to the ladies. The above comment was just meant to be a funny talk between brown brothers…. but anyways wanted to mention the agonising issue.
LOL at the hair issue. If only more black women could hear comments like that (Oneup rocks a gorgeous curly afro).
What do black women have against brown? Besides an undying love for black men?
Religion.
Many black (american) women cannot/would not dream of dating a man who isn’t saved. So being Muslim or Hindu is a VERY strong deterrent.
Other than that I’ve heard the silly generic arguements about how they don’t come across x types or aren’t attracted to x types.
Oh. My. Effing. God.
Many black (american) women cannot/would not dream of dating a man who isn’t saved. So being Muslim or Hindu is a VERY strong deterrent.
Thank you oneup, that is very honest. When South Asians offer up the same answer, we are labelled racist/casteist.
If religion is the reason, Why dont black women date white men as much?
And more power to you! Personally, I like anything natural and or braids. But if she says, please don’t touch or you’ll mess it up … 🙁
Unfortunately, I’m fighting against not just centuries of talk about good hair, but also this.
Oh yeah, he sings too, I forgot! I’m going back and forth but my mind says Bito while the…ahem…senses say Mr. K. Oh fine, I’ll take ’em both. Check please! 😀
Topcat: ‘cos they got concave asses. Just kidding, honest 🙂 I’ve admired many a fine booty without discrimination, so that’s my little contribution to the cause.
Saheli, I second your indignation. LOVE, and more importantly, LUST, is so random and amazing and special that it’s the boundaries and restrictions we place on it that cause it to f*** up.
That and the permanent quarter-life crisis and permanent reliving of their 16th year that seems to afflict many modern males.
With the religion thing, I reckon it’s harder when the other person is not spiritual at all or totally hates organised religion in general. I guess the Hindu/Muslim thing would be much harder since they’re more a way of life than western spirituality.
And for the brown boys lamenting the enduring cross-cultural popularity of black men…sigh. How can I explain it? They’re just H-O-T.
I think it is the white man who laments the popularity of the black man among white women. Black men simply adore white women for some reason.
Black men love flat booty. They’re just discovering desi women now, but they’ll love them even more!
Yeah I’m in the same boat. Black men evoke some serious lust. Perhaps it’s the myth or perhaps it’s just the way they are built. Don’t know what it is but I have the serious hots for the Fox5NY weatherman! He’s just beautiful!
Many black (american) women cannot/would not dream of dating a man who isn’t saved. So being Muslim or Hindu is a VERY strong deterrent.
on the topic, this makes sense to me in terms of what you are saying. i think we’d benefit from more dialogue between the black religious community and south asians. i feel like i can relate to a lot of the ideas i hear in the black religious community. but i find the idea i’m lost to be uncomfortable. its an incredibly moving experience to experience religion in the black community, and a lot of the soul-touching insights are things that one of the only other places i’ve experienced them were at the gurudawara. i wish people in the black community knew how much as a desi person i feel deeply moved when the talk turns to God and his saving grace, even though i’m comfortable in my own faith. i find the connections to be there, and black culture in America to be strong and positive. it’d be nice for people in the black religious community to acknowledge that Redemption and the struggle to keep hope is something that sustains a lot of south asians as well. nice in the sense of, that’d be a wonderful thing to come about or be a part of
I think that with religion, a person should have the right to discriminate. Faith can be all consuming. But in general, I go by these two dating choices:
1) You choose to date soley within your race. You hold no stereotypical views about how all X race men/women act. You just want someone who shares your culture, religion, background. You don’t want any friction with family, etc.
or
2) You are open to dating men/women of all races provided they meet your standards.
Those are the only two choices to me. I can sort of understand when people say they are only attracted to ONE other race that is not their own, but if thats the case, I think they need to admit that that attraction is influenced by some outside force.
Black women DO date white men. If a black woman has decided that she wants to venture out and date interracially, she will do so with a white man, as if that were her only choice. Black women don’t date out to the extent of black men, but I do see a substantial number of couples with black women and white men.
I agree on both comments… except in my case its a lack of faith that I have to be comfortable with.
I’m not trying to be anti-white here, but I really wish ALL minority groups would start to bond over our similarities instead of taking the easy route and bonding with the white majority as a default. There have been many times when reading this blog that I have forgotten that this was a desi pub. And this has eliminated some of the initial distance I had with my boyfriend.
Unfortunately, people tend to look out for themselves first, and when they form groups, the same behavior repeats itself. So people never really have to cross over and look at things the way other racial groups do. People always say “well why should we help them, they’ve never helped us!” when the reality is that no one is helping anyone.
But I’ve sort of gone off the topic of religion here, haven’t I?
The black women dont assimilate as easily as mexican or asian women. The reason could be that after centuries of aparthied the blacks went through, the black women possibly cant comprehend the idea of marrying their oppressors. These days ofcourse you will see some black women with white men.
Oneup,
i think the topic is still connected to religion since religion is one of the ways communities organize themselves. while i am all for soul-power through religion, it’d be also nice to have our communities organize around venues besides religion as well. to give people a diversity of options if nothing else. i agree with you, we should always find ways to reach out to one-another and find commonalities and support. in the 50 and 60’s there was a large movement of freedom solidarity through-out the world for instance. the ironic thing is, some of those links haven’t been maintained, so you’ll see people harken back all the way to those days, for instance the non-Aligned Movement
Hmm, maybe…they could just find other people hotter?…like H-O-T black men, huh Janeofalltrades 😉
I’m not sure about other people but while I do feel strongly about racism and postcolonial issues etc. I feel uncomfortable about the idea of people having such thoughts dominate things like their love lives. Religion is a bit different but taking out general anger about ethnocentrism etc. on some random white dude just seems a bit odd.
Oneup, your dating ethic is sound and sensible. Thank you for your comments.
Not this black man, thank-y. I dig the round (Anupama from WSU -ahh!). Oh, and brown skin combined with long dark hair that doesn’t require a 11-hr bi-weekly tune-up. Oh, yeah.
Hey! BrooklynBrown, that’s not cool. As someone who has a desi father and white mother, and not the only one on SM, I resent the living shit out of your comment. It doesn’t always have to do with selling out, trading up, reverse-colonializing, buying into The Man’s message, or any other anthropolgical BS excuse… I don’t know Vijay Prasad or his wife, but when it came to my Brown father and White mother, he very simply adored her and they fell in love. Bas, yaar. Bas yunhi.
The above comment is an analysis of the situation. I personally think the black women are a little stuck up. As for you ladies lusting for black men, go for #176, good luck.
Heh. Of all the men I’ve seen, the hairiest were the gay South Asian dudes who ended up having unsuspecting wives at home. (And as someone who grew up around a lot of Italians and Arabs, I know hairy.)
I agree. My only issue with dating white men is that many that I’ve dated in the past didn’t even attempt to understand certain things. That and the fact that no matter how hard he tried, my family would never feel comfortable around a white man if I decided to marry. But if it came down to it, I wouldn’t care at all what his ancestors may or may not have done. It’s about that individual.
Damn Topcat, all of us?
Not to nit-pick but the guy’s name is Sharif Atkins – not Shafiq.
Says Russel Peters and I kinda agree with him on this one.
Sultan dear, I hate to derail the thread but I wrote a post about the hair issue on my blog. As I told my friend on the phone today, “I am firmly committed to a relaxer.” Looking at the photo on my post any remotely empathetic person would have to agree…
And to all this crass talk about a dating hierarchy: pish posh It’s about numbers. As I said before, if you’re outnumbered 9 to 1, and everyone around you seems to be “sticking with their own” you will likely find yourself a bit high and dry.
As for you Topcat, if you’re trying to talk to a girl with a $300 weave, you better look like you can support her habit… I otherwise suggest you should get out more.
While it is your choice to relax your hair, and I don’t think ill of anyone who makes that choice… I think its sort of rude to point out someone else’s hair and basically say something like the above. If you don’t like it anymore, fine, but please don’t spread that “good hair” “bad hair” distinction to other cultures. TIA.
That’s seriously news to me. If black men loved flat booty they would be essentially disregarding black women. And I don’t see that happening. All the black men I know love booty. OK wait a minute, all the men I know love booty nevamind. And doesn’t pop culture to a degree represent real culture…a la Baby got back??
I must say I’m surprised at how easily people are generalizing from their limited experience. There is as much fragmentation and human variety among blacks and whites and latinas as among desis. It’s one thing to analyze media trends and even knowable deomographic trends and dynamics, but trends and dynamics are necessarily limited in nature. I know qualifiers and modifiers in one’s prose are out of vogue, but I’ll take milquetoastily precise statements over “strong”, stereotyping declarations any day.
Oops, misunderstanding between t-hype and I. Problem Solv-ed.
T-hype,
clearly I lack empathy. The sister in the photo has some gorgeous nappy hair, just the way I like it. Am I supposed to feel sorry for her? Wish she had hair like Al Sharpton’s? Sorry, I just don’t like the smell or feeling of processed hair, all brittle. (And no, I don’t like Jheri curls either) Most importantly, I don’t know how to deal with a woman who says “Don’t touch my hair”
Does it really take that much longer to take care of natural hair than relaxed hair?
Leave this guy alone already. He already kowtowed when he didn’t have to in the least. He made a comment on a SPECIFIC interracial couple, and gave his reasons for it. He didn’t lambast every interracial couple and their offspring.
And with all due respect to the “I love you, you love me, that’s all that matters” h(b)ollywood BS, last I checked, people don’t live in a vacuum, so there will be cultural dilution whether you like it or not. Not saying it’s good or bad. It just happens.
Hey T-hype:
while we have your attention – would you date somebody brown? Under what conditions? Why or why not?
😉
Wow! Nice to wake up here in Blore to read all of this discussion! Special props to Oneup for being so open and sincere in her commentary given she admittedly rarely posts.
I guess after reading all this discussion, I’m left with a few thoughts. Many of you touched upon this in your comments. While I understand the importance of understanding the societal implications of race and ethnicity and I am all for celebrating diversity of culture and experiences, in the end, I think we all tend to get very caught up in all of these identity issues. The truth behind all of this is that we are all at our cores human souls who may be able to take on or relate with different identities, different roles, etc. in different situations, but at the end of the day, we connect with each other through our human-ness. Why all of this need to explain or understand why these interracial, interethnic, interminority, inter, intra – whatever you want to call it – relationships occur? Love has no rules, no boundaries. It is simply the most beautiful expression of our humanity.
Sultan, you’re hilarious! I had prepared a diatribe about natural hair in response to your previous tongue lashing but I’ll answer the short and sweet of it and get some sleep. FYI, the photo wasn’t meant to illicit “sorry for” feelings it was supposed to be an “ah-ha.” Promise you’ll read the post, ok?
Yes hair that looks like that really does take longer. It took me no less than 3 hours (often more) to wash, dry and style. Processed hair should not be dry, brittle, or smell?! (Mine is none of the above.) The straightener cuts my time down to about 1 1/2 hours. For more on the girl in aforementioned photo, and grooming, etc. read here.
I personally accept applications and/or biodata from all young, single, handsome brown men who love bollywood…jk…kind of…Like Oneup, I’m a Christian too so that’s really important to me. I won’t compromise on that because my beliefs shape my worldview. The fact is though, no matter who I end up with, I’m dancing to “Shava Shava” at my wedding reception.
As for a more general answer, I think a lot of black women (I would imagine brown women too) don’t venture too far outside of their cultural comfort zone. And they think, “Well, if he doesn’t like this food, or this music, or this style, we won’t work and I don’t care to expend the engery to discover otherwise.”
Holla.
All this talk about diversity in relationships and mixed couples and some people mentioned Lost, but no one brought up Naveen Andrews, who while playing an Iraqi is Desi, and makes a habit of dating white women, lest you all forget Shannon from Lost, Juliet Binoche in the English Patient, or the fact that he played the child of a mixed marriage in “The Buddha of Suburbia” in the UK. Also, while on the subject, I’m surprised no one has mentioned Lagaan, and how Rachel Shelley’s character fell in love with Bhuvan.
I agree with the posters above who say love is love, what does it matter what the skin color or background?
i heard my name. its been such a fun friday, i can’t believe i missed it all. word. bring on the kundi. and like anna mentions, where my latinas at? they seem to have been left out. I think “black men, asian women” is part of the affirmative action studio execs like to throw in for effect. some combinations seem to be favored. aside: in midtown, i’ve observed a predominance of “white man, asian woman” while there’s a lot more “black man, asian woman” downtown. Interestingly, I’ve never felt my being “brown” work against me in the dating game. And I think that while media portrayal of the east asian/south asian man is often asexual, its the people who’re willing to discard stereotypes that are dating interethnically anyway, and they would rather find out for themselves.
Many black (american) women cannot/would not dream of dating a man who isn’t saved. So being Muslim or Hindu is a VERY strong deterrent.
Really? I’ve lived in Iowa City, Chicago, DC, San Francisco, Hawaii and briefly, NY, and not a single woman I’ve dated has ever asked me this question and most, before meeting me, have always assumed I’m Muslim… I don’t know, I think some black women are a little more complex when it comes to who they choose and why. Just my opinion.
Leave this guy alone already. He already kowtowed when he didn’t have to in the least. He made a comment on a SPECIFIC interracial couple, and gave his reasons for it. He didn’t lambast every interracial couple and their offspring.
Uh, except that his “kowtow”ing consisted of “Oh yes, I’m sorry, that was very tactless. So, here, let me say it again in more detail”. And that his comment was “it’s very disappointing that this SPECIFIC person didn’t know better than to marry a white woman”. Yes, clearly that statement says nothing about any other couples.
And, uh, who exactly are you talking to? By my count there have been two people who criticized the guy and one person who agreed with him. Big pile-on, there.
You Americans have so much to choose from, I’m jealous. 😉 Here, I don’t have any choice other than to date white men, basically, and maybe a rare Asian. There simply aren’t any men of Indian origin in the 50 km radius, and I’m not even considering anyone who is a practicing Muslim. Also taking into account such factors as similar education level and lifestyle, I’m left really with no other choice than the white. Not that I’m very sorry about it either. 😉
By the way, I find this argument of ‘dating white = dating your oppressor’ quite offensive. Perhaps some people ARE colour-blind, as opposed to the characters who would make such a comment.
People, Does anyone know of a place where there aren’t any Mallus? I’d like to go there and be exotic:)
I think location is important here. Religion in the black community tends to be very strong along the eaast coast and even moreso in the south. That tends to be less the case in a place like NYC and DC where it then becomes a numbers game. That aside: No, black women are not a monolithic group and there are a variety of reasons for why black women make certain choices. But that one seems to come up frequently.
Oh, and for the record, I am NOT Christian.
Ever heard the statement “It’s not the quantity, but the quality”? Using the phrase:
is pretty strong language. Also this person implies to speak not just for herself, but all others who share her situation. In Vijay Prasad’s book, he makes many claims against the “machine” as it were:
On p. 70,
On p. 157,
So, he’s come out strong against white/colonial hegemony, privelage, what-have-you. With such a background, at the least I’d say it’s surprising and strange he married a white woman… because to some degree he’s buying into the phenom he’s so closely studied and commented on.