Since I don’t watch these television shows, it’s a bit dicey to comment on the spate of shows featuring romances between black men and asian women, so I’ll let Rinku Sen do it for me: 
The sugary romance between the excessively noble characters played by Parminder Nagra and Shafiq Atkins on ER follows the much hotter one between Ming Na Wen and Mekhi Phifer that ended two seasons ago. GreyÂ’s Anatomy features Sandra Oh in an up-and-down relationship with Isaiah Washington.
What accounts for such interest? ItÂ’s as though these couples have been pouring out of medical schools and producers decided to capture the trend.
The representations tread the line between cultural authenticity, sometimes considered stereotype, and colorblindness. The women exhibit some level of conflict with their cultures and are slightly neurotic: Ming Na dreaded telling her immigrant parents that she was having a baby out of wedlock; Nagra quit her job in a bout of rebellion against family expectation to work as a convenience store clerk. The men are dangerous but tender. Phifer grew up without a father and has a temper; Gallant went off to serve in Iraq. I did laugh at the effort to bridge cultures, though, when NagraÂ’s character got married wearing a white sari. White is the Hindu color of mourning.(link)
If it’s on TV, is it a reflection of a real sociological trend, or simply a convenient image of happy multiculturalism from television fantasy-land? Sen’s article gets into some sociological explanations for the phenomenon, none of which are terribly convincing (I don’t think these romances have much to do with “American Empire” or colonialism). But she does argue that it goes beyond “submissive Asian woman”/”sexualized black man” stereotypes:
HamamotoÂ’s theory would suggest that such a preference was grounded in a sexual stereotype of submissive Asian women. I am familiar with our so-called seductress image. My Asian girlfriends and I spent our college years snottily rejecting the few white men who came around as “rice lovers.” While I did experience an American man mentioning the Kama Sutra within five minutes of meeting me recently in New York, my adolescent self-image was much closer to nerd than slut. To see all these Asian women who might also have been high-school nerds paired up with the most sexualized actors in American culture has been, I will admit it, a thrill. However, in real life, Asian women and Black men donÂ’t get to be both equally sexy and smart. “ItÂ’s easier for a Black man to get his foot in the door when heÂ’s with me,” said Aarti, “especially if weÂ’re working.”(link)
Class dynamics may be important in the appeal of Asians to some African Americans. And the “bad boy” image (stereotype) may make people of African descent more attractive to children of immigrants traditionally considered too studious and repressed (spelling bee/ math team champions) to be generally attractive.
Or maybe not: since there are no hard statistics, this could be just another Dubious Trend Story in line with infamous New York Times stories about baby gyms in Manhattan, or Ivy League women who decide to drop out of the rat race to become trophy wives. The next time you see an East or South Asian woman dating a black man … it may simply be that they are two people who happened to meet, and fall in love — irrespective of Parminder Nagra, and sociology be damned.
(Incidentally, for Bollywood fans, guess who played Nagra’s parents in a recent episode? Anupam and Kirron Kher, of course.)
I agree, Mr Kobayashi, and it wasn’t my intention to generalise. I think I’d have to be the first person to admit some of that implicit ‘conquest mentality’ in myself. Unfortunately, I realise now how much of that I imbibed growing up in India, where there is very strict heirarchy of the ‘acceptable’ in couples, and anything out of the norm is frowned upon by society in general.
Sometimes the fact that people like each other regardless of race (especially when I see it happening to me or in case of people I know) is still a bit bewildering. It can be quite disconcerting to see some of the more unconventional couples (Asian/Indian man – white woman, black-Indian etc). Somehow something deep inside the mind refuses to accept that such an attraction can happen “normally”, with race/background having a minimal role. Even when it happens to me!
The rational fact is that while there is a lot of racism around, there are plenty of people in the US who are really, truly color and race-blind in this country (US). I find that more common in people from the North-East. I am however, currently not one of them, yet. But one has to keep trying.
I’d like to ask y’all honestly, especially desi guys (1,1.5,2-gens). Do/did you ever feel that you are ‘lower’ in the dating heirarchy because of your race/background? I do feel that way sometimes. I have friends who tell me that it reflects in my opinions sometimes. I think that part of the reason is that I still carry my own ‘racial heirarchy’ somewhere in me. How do you get over that?
get a job :
mreoowrr!
all this talk of desiasian love, and here you are getting all Jet Li /Jackie Chan on me!
come here, you! wink
re #66:
Me thinks it has to do with the M.D. after the name. The way guys gravitate to looks is the same way girls gravitate to power/stature/$.
Kobayashi, I have to agree with you. Misogyny is the last acceptable predjudice. It’s almost as if “Whoop that Trick” is the chorus sung round the world…
Yeti, that’s IT right there. “Oooh, let’s put the exotic people together. That way we won’t have to worry about any protests and we can still meet our multicultural quota.” I mean we’re talking about Hollywood here. It’s not so much about making a statement as it is about making that cash without any potentially damaging drama.
True DTK. That goes for any successful relationship. I think the difference is that the average white person is going to have to work overtime to understand some things or at least feel very ok with not being able to compelete absorb some of the psychology of living in a country where folks from your culture are outnumbered about 9 to 1.
I think black people would too. But wait, that category was started because of us. Dang it! And FYI, Desitude, let’s cease and desist all use of words that are derivative of nigger, ok? It’s an unwise description. Besides, what’s next, “diggers?”
I agree with you about the “bad boy” thing Amardeep. It’s so hard to make a splash when you actually are black. I mean, for goodness sake, who can I bring home to shake up the parental units? Nothing but THE(white)MAN will do! lol.
AC-
wink right back at ya!!
i like azn grrls, generally much less hairy than desi grrls.
hahah sorry, its friday, and i’m definitely getting high TONITE!!! almost 5 pm!!!
“The People demand Takeshi Kaneshiro and they demand him now!”
Yes,yes, yes!! I watched the most godawful serial for ages in Tokyo just to look at this lovely man. Part of me was outraged by the serial, which was about Takeshi’s character dating a high school girl, but in the end, I threw integrity to the winds and kept watching.
On another note, yesterday a white guy at a book reading introduced himself to me and said that he was sure he “had been an Indian in his last birth”. BS-radar went on and I ran away. Then I felt a bit ashamed of myself, that I had been rather uncharitable.
I don’t watch any of these shows or, for that matter, have seen most of the movies mentioned in this thread. But I honestly don’t think the producers of these things think at such a deep level as the readers of this blog…I just don’t think they’re that bright. The way I see it, it’s a numbers game. Most shows/movies have a 1:1 ratio of leading men to leading women. How do we know that these characters haven’t hooked up just because they’re the last ones on the show that have yet to find a love interest?
get a job — wow, you sound like such a catch. it’s too bad us hairy desi girls are missing out on guys like you.
I think black people would too. But wait, that category was started because of us. Dang it! And FYI, Desitude, let’s cease and desist all use of words that are derivative of nigger, ok? It’s an unwise description. Besides, what’s next, “diggers?”
Okay. My apologies.
I’ll plea diversity when it comes to Chadha (and Berges): Bhaji on the Beach– desi female with black male What’s Cookin’– Latina female with Vietnamese male, entire ensemble cast includes Latino, Black, White (a lesbian couple, at that), and Vietnamese Bend it Like Beckham– desi female with white male (or white female, as is the gag between Nagra & Knightley) Bride & Prej– desi female with white male
So you’re looking at a 50-50 split. Given that ALL her project include a mixed-race couple in the lead roles, I think that’s something noteworthy in and of itself, nevermind how she mixes them… She herself is a KenyanDesi who landed up in UK, and personally, I’m refreshed to see such diversity onscreen. FINALLY. As for why she commonly uses a desi female lead, it works for her; I don’t think she’s under any obligations to put a white female lead in, just to make quota or something…
Given a choice between Takeshi Kaneshiro and Beat Takeshi – who would you choose?
yah. because you’re so hott with your back fur, fuzzy toe knuckles, and wild shoulder hairs. lookin’ like you rolled up at the pool with a sweater vest on… desi, please.
get a job:
i am forever jealous of the sea of ass you must swim in each day as you scooter towards your local strip mall and partake in an hour-long martial arts celebration at a Tiger Schulman dance studio / karate-place-thing.
now go away. you’re embarrassing those who hail from your parts that actually have a brain.
jeez
hey hey hey hey hey HEY! AC, don’t you dare come up here and blaspheme in front of me– that is hardly dance, yo. 😉
Q: Why go black? A: To not go back! Q: Why go Mallu? A: Zimbly!
Hey hey hey, hold on there. Believe it or not, some of us desi guys STILL like to think we’re hot. So let’s not go into the same old sniping.
You can enjoy your high and the azn fantasies. We hairy desis will be enjoying each other 😀
Errr…Herself. Ooops.
Do you hear that sound? That is the sound of silence. That is the sound of thousands of east coast desis leaving work for the weekend, turning off their computers and yes … stopping their comments on Sepia Mutiny. At least until they get home 😉
Actually, the term wggr is derogatory towards blacks moreso than whites. Same as the term “poor white trash”
desitude, apology more than accepted.
technophobicgeek, where in the northeast are you? One of the most assinine things I ever saw was a(nother black) girl staring wide-mouthed at me and my Filipino boyfriend in Times Square! I (not he) found it rather amusing that with all the things to look at she would be looking at us…
Futhermore, I was born in Connecticut and had the misfortune of spending a few years in high school there. As I told a rather dashing darkskinned desi who was about to go visit a white girl “friend” in the state, “Well, once they figure out you’re not black, they’ll be all right.”
Life below the Mason-Dixon–in the right areas–suits me just fine.
Actually, the term wggr is derogatory towards blacks moreso than whites. Same as the term “poor white trash”
Yes, I looked up the wikipedia entry, and apparently its frequently used by whites to deride other whites.
Oh, currently I live in Houston, TX. But I based my opinions on people I meet here who are from the Northeast (NY, Boston, DC).
Texas, huh? That’s like a whole ‘nother country!
Please don’t angry when I say this but Texas is not in The South, it’s in The Mid-West.
Actually, one other thing that I don’t totally understand, but what is with this ridiculous obsession with hair (I know Im late)? My boyfriend is like this too. I dont know a ton of indians but with the ones I do know, very rarely have I looked an any of them and thought they looked ridiculously hairy. And of the men I’ve dealt with, they aren’t even all that hairy either. I’ve dated hairier white guys. I’m guessing desis are just hypersensitive about it… but I don’t see why…
sigh Of course I get to the comments at the end of the work day when others are leaving.
To clarify some points:
(1) Vijay Prasad’s Karma of Brown Folk (that was mentioned in earlier posts) contends that the model minority myth is a way to create a dominant power dynamic over African-Americans and to maintain status quo oppression in that Asian-Americans are perceived as coming to the US with “nothing”, “working hard” like an immigrant, and then “succeeding” in this New World. Meanwhile, the contention holds, this is juxtaposed against African-Americans, who have been in the country for longer (I’m not counting the small number of desis who worked on the railways in California), yet still haven’t gained the economic capital that model minorities have.
The status quo judgement from this is that African-Americans are “lazy” and not as resourceful. Prasad’s point is that this judgement is ignorant of a number of factors, such as that not all Asian Americans are economically successful, and those who have “made it” did so as a result of their elite educations. Face it, absent the post-1965 loosening of America’s immigration laws for technically educated doctors and engineers, some of us wouldn’t be in this country.
Sidenote: Vijay Prasad is married to a white woman. I found that to be a letdown, frankly.
(2) Regarding race and dating, I’ve always liked this article.
(3) Someone once mentioned a Sherman Alexie poem about women. I love Alexie and submit that this one that I just posted on my site as being more relevant to this post.
Thanks for that lucid explication of Prasad’s work. It’s an intriguing and persuasive reading. The brother sounds enlightened; I’ll be sure to check him out.
But BrooklynBrown, I also find your dig at Prasad’s wife completely tactless. What gives? It mars the considerate tone of the rest of your comment.
Even Russell Peters makes a joke about hairy Indians (men and women). I think it is one of the cliche’ rants desis use to get back at the opposite sex. I have rarely seen a hairy ABD girl but lots of hairy ones in India. As for a desi guy like me, I do have body hair. It is more visible on a desi body like mine coz my body hair is lustrous black.
You’re right; it was tactless, and I apologize for including that. Th reason is simple: here’s an academic who can see some of the ways that race dynamic is played out in mainstream society and can see some of the tools for maintaining the status quo hierarchy. Yet at the same time, he buys into the hierarchy by marrying someone white. I find that disappointing. Yes, it’s utterly reductive of me to overlay his relationship with race theory and it dismisses their “chemistry” (refer to this again), but this guy studies this exact type of race theory.
Thanks for the explanation on the hair thing Topcat. I figured the topic of hair would never come up, so I’d get my ridiculous comment/question out of the way now.
I read that article and was immediately turned off by the first line. I resent the idea that black women are at the bottom of the dating barrel. Especially since I have never, EVER had a problem getting a date (of any race). And no I don’t look like a chocolate Barbie. But I still get people pitying me and trying to hook me up with some random black guy they know since they just KNOW I can’t get a date on my own.
Here’s the thing though. Often times I see black women and asian men complaining about how no one wants to date them. But if the two groups are unwilling to get rid of their own racial hierachies and try to date each other, how can they expect other people who are higher up on said ladder to get rid of theirs?
Hairy white guys are an anomaly. Or perhaps in the Indian chick UT mind, the whiteness outweights the hairyness
Not when you date a lot of Italians.
Maybe the real question is.. why would they want to? And it’s not just dating, this heirarchy translates into general usefulness to society. It’s the way Indian “racism” differs from US racism. India seems to make the buck stop at beauty but not necessarily self-worth.
No it wasn’t tactless, I agreed with it, don’t supplicate so easily. You didn’t say he was a traitor to the “cause”, you just said it was disappointing. That’s a fair statement.
Yippee!! – with all this hair talk SM begin to resemble the M4M pages on my local free rag 🙂
Your photo is of Parminder Nagra and Mekhai Pheifer: Here’s Sharif Atkins and Parminder Nagra.
LOL that’s like saying “I like white girls because they have light skin”. It’s sort of a lame analogy. Every race is different. Personally I think it’s a seriously superficial reason to reject people because I don’t know too many hairy women or perhaps women have evolved and take care of their hair. But wait a minute we are a hairy race. What the hell is up with that? It’s like a Sikhni saying “I can’t stand facial hair” eh hello! Personally I love love love hairy men and I’m glad god didn’t make desi men like freshly plucked chicken the way some Asian guys look. Smooth and hairless…no thank you.
Oneup, I agree with that thought entirely. But part of the complaining is also about “choice”, the fact that Asian (Indian?) men and black women have to date each other because there is nobody else, statistically, out there for them.
I don’t think all desi men are averse to the idea of falling in love with a black or desi woman, I guess the resentment partly comes from the idea (true or false) that they are restricted to this set compared to the white guy who appears to have his racial pick simply by virtue of his birth.
It is entirely possible that were racial prejudices to miraculously disappear today, Asian men would happily date black women, but that would be out of choice and not social compulsion. A happier situation.
However, as individuals, we cannot change society, only ourselves. So indeed, getting rid of our own racial heirarchies is probably a good thing.
Oh thank you thank you JOAT 🙂 You give me hope.
JOAT….
but the ones who look like plucked chickens are the hairy ones who “become” smooth, no? 🙂 This is all so confusing 🙁
Just to add to my above comment on my desi body hair. One must know where to trim them and where to keep them. For example slight hair on the man’s chest can work positively on some women who like to play with hairy chests while some others like it clean shaven. Other than that get rid of them elsewhere especially if you have trouble zipping up.
Don’t be confused my friend. I’m pretty certain I’m not alone in preferring my man natural and hairy. I find nothing sexy about a waxed man. High maintenance. If I don’t spend hours getting waxed he better not! And there is something seriously gay about that. Not that there’s anything wrong with it. I just prefer my man to not be gay!
Eh ok TMI! We are talking about civilized men aren’t we? I somehow disbelieve that if they aren’t exactly perfectly waxed and hairless they are complete hairy beasts that live like neanderthals!
As the product of a mixed marriage, I wholeheartedly endorse miscegenation… (a brown guy and a gori, btw… so that stereotype does not always apply)
Yet at the same time, he buys into the hierarchy by marrying someone white.
WTF??? It’s called LOVE! Jesus, does it still have to be spelled out?! I mean, that’s 90% of why racism re:miscegenation is so freakin’ offensive. I was talking about movies and represtation. In real life, I would hope people just, you know, fall in love. Far out concept!!
Falling in love is so crazy and arbitrary and rare and special, that’s exactly why applying some kind of mucked up social stereotype to two real life people–and extending that application through to screen conventions–is so obnoxioius. A massively important root reason of why racism is horrible is that one is denying a person’s humanity and individuality and pinning them into a color-box.
Your copout “yeah, yeah I know” does not excuse that. For all we know Vijay Prasad and or his wife reads the Mutiny!
JOAT
“seriously gay” and smooth? I can hear the bears already…….
But the bears are rebelling against a very strong trend, no?
.. a very strong trend prepeuated by media and anti-viral drug ads
I think the bears need to stop looking at the guidos in the gym that also have more shaplier eyebrows then women. Getting rid of unibrows are the only thing men should be doing to their eyebrows if that!
then = than … sorry I keep doing it!
Like me! Curly hair works best.
That’s a tough one, homie. I’d go with Bito. Better conversation, I bet.