A Indian blogger in Malaysia named Sharanya Manivannan recently posted an open letter to Indian Prime Minister Manmohan Singh, asking him to take a stand on the Hindu temple demolitions that have been occurring in the country:
But I ask you this: when temples that stood for over a century are destroyed, what really dies? Not stone and statues. Not bells and prayers. Not — thankfully and thus far — people. You see, what frightens me is not the loss of these temples themselves, though architecturally speaking, that too is often a disappointment. What frightens me is what these temples are taken to represent, and by extension, what their demolitions therefore represent. (link)
[Note: if the link doesn’t work, try going to Sharanya’s blog]
Elsewhere in the letter she points out that the Indian government did send a letter of “official displeasure” to the Danish government following the publication of the anti-Islamic cartoons. Why the silence so far on the “temple cleansing” in Malaysia? She also makes some poignant comments about how Indians are treated as a whole in Malaysia, which I’ll quote below the fold.
Some background: In the past few months, Malaysian authorities have demolished a number of Hindu temples in different parts of the country, stating that they were built without a proper permit. But local Hindus have complained that they had applied for permits, sometimes waiting as long as 30 years for a response! Moreover, according to the BBC, at least two of the temples destroyed were more than a century old, which clearly suggests that getting a permit to build is not at all the issue driving the demolitions. Indeed, it seems pretty clear that these demolitions are part of an organized campaign in a country that is growing increasingly intolerant of religious minorities. (Churches and other religious structures have also been demolished along the same lines.)
Indians make up about 8% of the settled population of Malaysia, which amounts to about 2 million people, and the majority are Hindus. For the most part they have lived in Malaysia in peace (communal violence is very rare), but Indian Malaysians do often complain of discrimination and mistreatment. They have traditionally been a working class population, who came to Malaysia initially to work on rubber plantations. This turn is especially sad, as Malaysia (like Indonesia) has ancient connections to India and Hinduism. Tamil traders established settlements there as far back as the third century A.D., and ruins of ancient Hindu temples have recently been discovered.
Which brings us back to Sharanya Manivannan. In her blog post, she talks about a picture she saw in the newspaper that encapsulated for her the emotion these temple demolitions provoke in her. It was a picture unrelated to the demolitions, but somehow it triggered her to finally take some positive action:
It was a newpaper picture of a retired gardener, S. Sarimuthu, whose only daughter had died on June 11th as a result of viral eningoencephalitis and secondary pneumonia contracted while at National Service camp. In this picture of him, which I can’t find online, he looks profoundly forlorn. He looks like his heart had been wrenched out of his body, pounded to a pulp, and then poured back inside.
This picture made me cry and cry and cry, and then write this letter. And cry even more the morning after I did, as I explained to someone what made me do it. The family wasn’t Hindu. The girl wasn’t the victim of genocidal hate-mongering. But I saw that picture and in my mind I saw that father at hospitals, at home — I saw the way the nurses looked at him, the way the doctors spoke to him, the way hospital authorities dismissed him as she slipped into a coma. I saw him throughout his life, I saw the way this [f-ing] state in one way or another has taken away even this, even her. I saw the colour of his skin and the sheer, unmitigated loss in his eyes, the way his loss and the loss of these temples were entwined, and I could not not write this letter. (link)
Hindu groups are starting to organize and actively protest. The Indian Financial Express reports that Indian groups have been appealing to the Prime Minister of the country.
Also, in some of the press coverage of the temple demolitions, some Malaysian authorities have begun to express concern that Hindus may begin to turn violent in resisting the demolitions. In fact, the tenor of the resistance is already changing: several people were injured and arrested when they refused to vacate the premises of a temple that was about to be demolished. I wouldn’t advocate violence, obviously. But it may be time to get Gandhian on their asses: mass public demonstrations, and a campaign of nonviolent resistance. (And yes, Sharanya, keep blogging about it: make it personal, tell the world your version of the story.)
Two additional wrinkles:
While the Malaysian press, according to the blogger Sharanya I quoted above, has remained silent about the Hindu temple demolitions occurring in the country, I did find articles about the Hindu temple demolition that recently occurred in Lahore. [UPDATE: The demolition may not have occurred at all.]
Secondly, a version of this has been occuring in recent months (in reverse) in India itself, as an important 300 year old Sufi Dargah was pulled down in Vadodara (formerly Baroda), leading to communal riots that left six people dead. To be clear, Mandirs were also demolished in this campaign (now halted) in the interest of “development,” but the lead-in to the Express India story reminds us that India isn’t immune to indifference to the concerns of religious minorities:
Two demolition drives, and two different ways of going about it. So while in Gujarat’s cultural capital Vadodara, the BJP went about doing a “balancing act” by razing a 300-year-old dargah, in Rajkot, the BJP fought the Municipal Commissioner tooth and nail for removing a small temple that was encroaching on RMC land. (link)
Expecting justice or equality in a muslim dominated society is foolhardy. Forget Malaysia, even in some Indian towns with muslim majorities like Aligarh and Mau – hindu temples are routinely vandalised, hindus harassed and attacked, prevented from practising their faith or celebrating their festivals in peace and with freedom.
But I wouldn’t blame the muslims – one cannot criticise a mad dog for biting, it is in its nature to do so – I blame the hindus. For being so self-centred, self-loathing, timid and divided. If you dont fight for your rights, if you dont fight for justice, if you dont fight evil – which is your dharma – and surrender meekly, you deserve to be eliminated.
I am a Malaysian..but my govt doesn’t think so.. My govt think that I am a Malaysian Indian.. My govt has been alientaing us for far too long.. but unfortunately my fellow Malaysians think, it is all right to be down trodden.. It is our fate.. our destiny.. After all we are indebted to the mighty( aka Bumi puteras) for our red passport… Would anything change? Nope..As long as my people feel obligated, we will be down trodden.. Article 11 of the Malaysian constitution guarentees freedom of worship.. but my fellow Malay brethren will not grant us that.. and we don’t dare ask.. First we let the British rule us.. now …
Sarah:
Sorry to hear about your fate. I guess MoorNam was right again. BTW, what is the status of Malaysian Afirmative action program, where Malays are guaranteed a certain % or Board and university seats, among other things?
Sarah,
I am forever grateful that Singapore stuck up for meritocracy in 1965 and subsequently got kicked out of the Malayan Federation! I’m Singaporean Indian and the notion of permanent second-class citizenship doesn’t appeal at all. I always had some sympathy for the New Economic Policy (NEP)’s provisions for bumiputra upliftment (many rural malays were and remain poor) although it sidelined other poor communities (say the dirt poor Indian ‘estate’ labourers).
The first problem was in the definition of who actually was “bumiputra“. Many Malays are themselves immigrants from the Indonesian archipelago (coming during the same colonial era as the inds/chinese as well very substantial immigration from Indonesia (estimates of 3 million) in the last 3 decades), though this fact is very conveniently ignored. All muslims are automatically bumiputra and qualify for countless economic privileges (housing, education, employment, government contracts, government scholarships), ethnic origin is no bar, hell you could be Bosnian muslim! The non-malay(2/3 are non muslim) indigenous peoples – the orang asli– are bumiputra only in name, and remain pretty much marginalised by the m’sian government and as shackled to poverty as ever. Uniquely Malayan communities like the portuguese eurasians (christian) and the Peranakanans(hybrid, malayanised chinese, indians) have partial (token)or no bumiputra status though they have roots in the country that go back hundreds of years,a longer time than the many ‘malay-muslims’.
The second problem was the implementation of the policy. Yes bumi stakeholding of the economy increased from 2.4% to just under 30% in 3 decades but malay-muslims, the poor rural ones, still make up 40% of the country’s poorest households.A relatively tiny urban elite enjoy most of the benefits. The massive corruption (bumi-malays acting as fronts for non-bumi persons to get preferential treatment ) and inefficiency is something else. The race/religion based discrimination has become self-defeating. 95% of government scholarships are for the bumis though the top scholars are inevitably chinese and Indian. A further shame is that quite a few of these second-rate scholars fail or abandon their studies overseas, since it is privilege they came by easily and suffer no penalty for wasting taxpayers’ money. Local universities all have stringent non-bumi quotas so you have cases whereby top non-bumi scorers (they also sit for much tougher different exam than the bumis in case you are wondering) are actually left out in the cold.
Despite all this, the Chinese and Indians have suffered in silence or left the country. They are still not complaining, at least not officially. The chinese community has had wealth and strong community organisations to cushion the blows while the Indian middle class has shrunk((about 0.5 million have left) and the desperately poor working class have the shittiest leaders imaginable to sell them further down the river.
Sarah, you could walk into S’pore tomorrow, and get permanent residence if not citizenship.
Sorry for the long post but this is just to provide a background to what is to come next! Which is the truly frightening part of what is going on in Malaysia.
I was in Malaysia last month for a week (Kuala Lumpur and Penang). Overall, the Malays, although religious, did not seem fanatical to me.
What outward signs of fanaticism were you expecting to see?
Well you need to know is that NONE of them ever traditionally wore a hijab say, just 20 years ago.What you also did not see is instructive. You also did not see traditional malay dress that are NOT worn that are now ‘haram’which were common in my childhood. You also seem not to have seen any niqabis – as alien as they are to SE Asian Islam, increasing numbers of women now don them. Didn’t see baby girls or toddlers in hijab either did you?
Fanaticism is relative. You have to know what local malay ‘adat’ or custom was here in the past, thus what comes next would not have surprised you.
but there was a lot of socializing between men and women, you would see groups of teens of both genders hanging out in the malls together, even quite a few young dating couples.
Malay culture has strong matriachal roots and gender relations have traditionally been pretty relaxed. But the social mixing has come under attack in the recent past.Traditional malay greetings involving touch and kissing of hands are now haram, more segregation exists in public/social functions, there was/is statesanctioned gender segregation in public places (supermarkets, hotel pools etc)the 2 eastern states held by the fundamentalist muslim party PAS. As well as huddood punishments (enactment has been stayed by federal law).
There is even in KL, religious police- looking for khalwat/illicit sex cases among muslims and most recently, a snoop squad for that spanking new metropolis Putrajaya, morality police to clamp down on PDAs*, handholding and kissing and other indecencies. There have been cases of non-muslims busted for loveydovey behaviour in public parks.
Alcohol is freely available, and they have the whole gamut of cable television channels, full unimpeded internet access, etc. Kuala Lumpur was a vibrant, dynamic city, full of modern buildings. There is a decent nightlife available. Probably the best mall I’ve ever seen, the KL Suria, is right at the base of the Petronas Towers
This is Friedman-lite, a really superficial look at another society.
(echoing Amardeep’s comment about the close historical connections between India and Malaysia, the mall’s name Suria is derived from Sanskrit ‘Surya” or ‘the sun’).
A substantial portion of malay vocab is of indian origin. This historical connection is not warmly or universally acknowledged.It is too jahilliya for some with their new sensitivities. Modern India is seen as backward. If you want to work/live in Malaysia and your passport is Indian, you’ll know how long your welcome lasts. Non citizens married to non-muslim malaysians have to wait on average 15-25 years to, just get permanent residence. In the meantime they cannot work.
Forget citizenship.
I am so grateful that this letter has provoked so much discussion. As the comments began to pile up here, there were many things that I thought I would respond to but felt that I ought to wait and see what transpired, and am glad that other voices representing minorities in Malaysia have emerged in this forum. I will continue to write about “my version of the story”, as Amardeep put it, as well as the stories of others I hear and see and read every day. Thank you for all the support.
some links:
Did I say forget citizenship? Take a look at the citizenship status of 4000 supposedly bumi Orang Asli kids
temple demolitions, hindu
church demolition
country’s second largest buddha statue destroyed, not on the bamiyan scale of course.
teapot cult’s premises attacked ;they were eventually completely destroyed and set to torch;the followers are on trial for “unislamic” activities;the leader is on the run.
Sharanya,
I read the Baradan K article online Sharanya, and then went to a few malaysian blogs because the mainstream news media blackout on this is quite astounding, not a peep. Yeah there is the Mahathir-Badawi bitchfest of mammoth proportions sucking up everyone’s attention but still.
Mirax,
Yup – mainstream media blackout. Malaysiakini — an independent alternative news portal — has been following the events though, but they require a subscription. Some of their articled are reproduced in full on my blog, as are links to the church and Buddhist temple demolition you mentioned. They are on earlier posts, which are linked below the letter.
Thanks Amardeep, mirax et al for the fascinating historical details. Standing up for the minority rights of only one’s co-religionists is kinda problematic and runs counter to the notion of human rights, so I’m a bit wary of the hindu pride folks who want to defend Hindus in the far corners of the world and ignore their domestic problems. Much as I support minority rights in Malaysia, it’s probably not the wisest thing for India to get involved because that will just increase the fifth-column/foreign sympathies image, won’t it?
Mirax:
I agree with you. One week in a country is nowhere near long enough to really understand what’s going on. My observations were just superficial ones; additionally, I was basically a tourist, and Penang in particular (due to the Chinese majority) is different than most of Malaysia. Even there non-Malays felt worried. I also an unaware of what Malay culture was like a few decades ago but I take your word for it. I guess it didn’t seem fanatical in the way the Middle East does…but maybe it’s heading there.
Sp,
I think it utterly futile for the Indian government to intervene and so far that call has been made by only one person, more out of despair than expectation. You will not find Malaysian Indians or the Chinese calling on China or India to come to their rescue – they are Malaysians first. There is little that I can do about the issue though I live right next door. There are malaysians – of all races and religions- who are deeply upset at the creeping Islamisation and who are at the forefront of the battle. What we can do is support them by giving publicity to their cause overseas.
You are absolutely right. In fact identity politics is a direct cause of the problems in Malaysia and it is not just hindus bearing the brunt (though they are the easiest target at present)of the injustice that race and religion based state policies create. All minorities – even the liberal malay muslims- are at threat. The temple/church demolitions show up one feature that affects all religious minorities : the state makes no provision AT ALL in terms of land allocation or funds or even a simple building or renovation permit for their houses of worship. This is in massive contrast to the many tens of million dollars lavished on showpiece mosques. Religious communities’ attempts to legalise structures that predate independence (they weren’t squatting on state land a 100 years ago) have been futile.
Besides the temple demolitions there are other deeply sinister events in the recent past that have encroached on the civil and constitutional rights of all malaysians, but particularly impacting non-muslims. These have to do with religious freedom, and changes to family law that affects muslim women unfairly.
Lina Joy (Malay)has been trying to renounce islam for many years.
This woman- Chinese convert– wants to leave Islam too.
These nearly 200 women’s groups desperately wanted to stop amendments to the Islamic Family Law that :
eroded women’s property rights
extended men’s polygamy rights
extended men’s divorce rights
extended men’s rights over their wives’ property.
They failed, and now they are campaigning for a moratorium on its enactment.
That is why there are groups like the Article 11 coalition (they seek to ensure that constitutional guarantees for freedom of religion for non-muslims is clarified beyond doubt). An article 11 meeting recently in a hotel was disrupted by 500 muslim hooligans with the police who were present doing nothing. There are human rights NGOs (multi-racial/religious), secular women’s groups as well as liberal muslim organisations like SIS (sisters in islam)and a religious coalition, the MCCBCHS( Malaysian Consultative Council of Buddhism, Christianity, Hinduism, and Sikhism ) all involved to varying degrees in a collective effort to stem the rot. They are fully deserving of respect and whatever we can give them.
btw, I am not hindu but atheist and couldn’t give a damn about temples per se.I do care about human rights.
Sp:
If your own coreligionists and co-ethnics will not stick up for you, who will? I think you are taking liberalism too far.
Look at the dates on all the links I posted, please. They all refer to events that have occurred in the last 6 months. Tells you something about the atmosphere in the country, doesn’t it? And that is not an exhaustive list. It for example completely avoids the highly controversial and frightening Moorthy case.
I could post you the news yesterday: the ulama?s ruling at Ulama Conference 2006 whereby it followed the National Fatwa Committee?s decision that celebrating the festivals of other religions could erode the faith of Muslims and lead to blasphemy.
http://www.news.com.au/story/0,10117,19493697-23109,00.html
Why did the Indian MSM blackout this news ?
‘Liberalism’ today is an in-fashion tool for the spineless.
Those who are not seduced by the siren call of “community”? Who’d prefer to operate on the basis of principle and fairness and due process?
Red Snapper:
When you say ‘situation in Gujarat’ what is your source of information? The muslim-deferring, hindu-hating media? I was in Baroda when the Dargah demolition took place. Numerous temples were demolished before that dargah. There are peaceful ways to protest. What I saw was the supposedly ‘minority community’ attacking the Courts with acid bombs, guns, swords and the like. It makes me wonder where the Hindu swords were when their temples were demolished… The reality is, in India, its a common thing to coddle the ‘minorities’ & be less tolerant to The Hindu. Your comparision of Hindus in Gujarat to the Ku Klux Klan is so blatantly ignorant, it warrants the stand of hardliners like the RSS for a society which is more HIndu-tolerant.
was in Malaysia last month for a week (Kuala Lumpur and Penang). Overall, the Malays, although religious, did not seem fanatical to me… when I read the above comment I felt I need to explain to the world outside what exactly is going on in Malaysia.
29th of sep 2001, Former PM, Mahathir Mohammed Declared Malaysia to be an Islamic Nation..It is not an islamic country. Malaysia is secular. We have been given that right in the constitution. But who cares about constitution, when you have 60% of the people’s support. Who cares about the minority??
We have to write race in every single application form.. even a super market reward card.If Malaysia has Malaysians living there, then race is irrelevant..but no.. we have muslims and others live there..
Even if ethnic miinority lives in poverty, they wouldn’t get a discount to buy a house, while the ethnic majority( muslim malays mostly) gets up to 7 % discount.. even to buy a multi million dollar home!
It took the Catholic church more than 25 years to build ONE single church in Shah Alam, capital of Selangor state.. while it is mandatory that every town with 500 muslim population should have a surau or mosque. Because our govt strongly beleive only muslims needs to pray and non muslims can go to hell.
Now that we don’t get permission to build a temple or a church, the next step is to destroy the ones that are built already.. If we could jail a former deputy prime minister on trumped up charges, then you can imagine the clauses and rules that can be used to justify the demolition of temples.
Although Chiristians and Jews are people of the book and can marry a muslim without converting, it is n’t so in Malaysia. This rule is followed very religiously..that you want to marry a malay, you must convert to Islam. .. and once converted..May god have mercy on you, there is no turning back..you can’t go back to practice your original religion. Mr Murthi is one example, where a wife wasn’t even given right to bury her husband..( we are still talking about religious tolerance!!)
A hindu mother had no rights in Malaysian court, when her ex husband converted to islam and also converted her children( mother has full custody) to Islam. The sharia court said.. they can’t hear her case because she isn’t muslim and High court said, Sharia court has jurisdiction when it comes to religion.. At the end the mother was told, that she cannot feed her children non halal food..( they are born Hindu0.. If she fed her children haram food, she would lose custody.. where in the world will you hear such ludicrous ruling by a learned judge.. Only in Malaysia.
It doesn’t matter, if our Malaysian ethnic minority children score straight A’s in exam.. they will not get a scholorship…but if the child has muslim blood any where in the geneolgy link..then the govt will offer the kitty.. Sufia.. oxford maths prodigy, whose mother is Malay and father in Pakistani, holds British Citizenship and full Malaysian scholorship!!)
The Malaysian Indians are the unwanted ones. They drink spurious liqour and are all gangsters.. that is what the govt beleive.. So they are in a process of cleansing.. If you are of Indian descent and are arrested.. then god have mercy on you.. your body has all the chance to float in the filthy Klang river(Francis Udayappan and many other unknown ones have gone that way).. We not only go afte our own Citizens, we even go after the ones who came to work in Muli national companies.. few years ago, the efficient Malaysian police arrested.. software professionals.. thinking that..they are like the ones from the estate and they can play with them and scare them a bit..BTW,.. if you are illegal and still a muslim, preferably from Indonesia.. then don’t worry.. we send you back each year in a boat and you take a 2 weeks vacation in your country and we will welcome you back.. We are after all a fair country. For writing this letter.. I can be arrested and kept in jail for 2 years without a trial.. that we call Internal security act..Still want to know why we keep quiet?? We have families.. they will not even see our dead body.
Hail Mogambo!
Shri CC, you really told the truth to these anti National bigots!
Anti-Hindu bigots are everywhere, even complaining about so called genocide of Muslims in Gujarat. It was a conspiracy of anti Hindu bigots to pretend such thing happened. We need to stop pandering to minorities and assert our saffron balls. Lets destroy some more dargahs and mosques to show how tolerant we are.
Hail
Ku Klux KlanMogambo!The most persecuted man in the history of India – what a gentle and beautiful hero he is – see how sweet and innocent his smile is – and how he leftist cabal of chooras and muslim denied him entry to New York and what persecution of Hindu Messiah – I want to stroke his saffron balls.
The Leader
Hail Modi-gambo!
CC, There was a Pickled Politics thread at the time of the Vadodara disturbances.
There were 6 killed. 2 hindu,4 muslim. this is what I wrote then:
The two hindu men were tragically in the wrong place at the wrong time, caught up in a riot where there were probably both genuine protestors and as some of the posters mentioned above, maybe some criminal muslim elements. As were the three young muslim men (two shot in the head by the police as they were returning home after work and the third allegedly killed by police) – all equally victims of situations way out of their control.
i would place a lot of the blame for the Vadodara events at the door of the local government officials and the police.
(The fourth man, a muslim was burnt alive by a hindu mob.)
I agree that Muslims protesting have no right to turn on and kill anyone else – hindu/muslim/sikh. Same goes for hindu crowds. The problem seems to be that sections of any crowd out in the streets in India involves quite a few criminals and goondas and top-notch policing seems necessary to prevent tragedies. That policing seems noticeably absent in Vadodara.
The demolition drive- in existence for the last 15 days, 2 weeks!- does seem to me to be excessively rash. No one in tripura may have cared about an ancient temple being torn down- good for them!- but that was patently NOT EVER going to be the case in the destruction of the dargah in vadodara. I ?d have thought that many months, if not years of mediation and talks with the community affected, might have been prudently anticipated. People are touchy about places of worship being torn down or relocated, not least in a hotspot like Gujarat, not least a minority that has no trust in the govet. What were the authorities thinking?
The gujarat demolitions are crucially different from the M’sian one in that the majority religion was not spared in Gujarat.
Spoorlam, you may be taking the piss but if parody is all you are capable of (where’s your contribution to the debate?), you are as limited as those who stoke your ire. Hail mogambo yourself!
I remember that. The Indian government stepped in with a very strong protest then and Malaysians were left looking very silly.
Shri Mirax
What debate?
I am being serious!
Hail Miraxambo!
ok you are a fuckwit. Greatly simplifies my response to you.
Thanks!
You have a good sense of humor!
Now stop persecuting me!
Hail Miraxagambo!
SpoorLam/Modi
Don’t worry about what others think of you: I love you and your Saffron Balls, and that’s all that matters.
It took the Catholic church more than 25 years to build ONE single church in Shah Alam, capital of Selangor state.. while it is mandatory that every town with 500 muslim population should have a surau or mosque. Because our govt strongly beleive only muslims needs to pray and non muslims can go to hell.
This is interesting. Can you give us some references??. I have also heard that it is almost impossible to construct a place of worship for non-Muslims in Indonesia (they have rules like all the neighbours should sign in etc..)
And Indonesia and Malaysia are touted as Islamic countries with a lot of “tolerance”..
They have an 8.5% Growth Rate, you know.
mirax:
A hindu was dragged into the Muslim lanes and was cut open when he was still alive. The muslims danced with his is entrails on the streets. Sorry for the gory details, but seems like the media and ‘liberals’ like yourself feel the need to downplay ‘Hindu deaths’ and glorify ‘muslim sacrifices’.
Its a sorry state of affairs when people who get their news from CNN go on and post about atrocities on ‘minorities’ in Baroda. A few facts about the ‘minorities who ve lost faith in the govet.’ in Baroda: 1.The only shops selling guns, arms and ammunition are owned by muslim mullahs. 2. Right after the riots there were reports of LeT militants having met in Baroda. 3.Every year during Ganesh visarjan, the so called minority community attacks the Hindus that pass through the muslim dominated areas.
The Baroda Muncipal govet should have made more arrangements to counter the militant nature of the minority community in the event of dargah demolition, agreed. But that doesnt mean you discount what caused these killings riots in the first place. THE ABSOLUTE INTOLERANCE BY THE MUSLIMS OF GOVT POLICY.
Hail Mogambo!
These mullahs are scum! Without exception! They are intolerant of government policy to kill them all.
Leave a message on the Messiah’s website and tell him how we must deal with those uppity anti-national Muslims with collective punishment – they have already forgotten the lesson we taught them in 2002.
Hail CC!
My link in post 58 has a human rights lawyer mention it:
He cited the case of a Catholic church in nearby Shah Alam city which got a permit to build a church after 30 years of trying. “What does this say about freedom of worship?” he asked.
BUT I have heard conflicting accounts about the time taken for the permit to be approved, ranging from 10-30 yrs.
And Indonesia and Malaysia are touted as Islamic countries with a lot of “tolerance”.
Well if you have Iran or S Arabia as the base for comparison, they are. SE Asian
But if you look at them within their own historical, socio-political context, then they are getting more intolerant.
Indonesia has complex economic and ethnic problems ; M’sia has much less excuse.
Shri CC, you have to understand, this website is infested with anti-national liberal Democ-RATS, Muslim lovers, anti collective punishment liberal bigots, there are even some Abrahamics amongst them. For sure, a veritable den of anti-Hindu conspiracy. But your logic, tolerance and insight makes them quake in fear – truly we are the best.
Death to SepiaMutiny!
SpoorLam:
Yes, of course…your Saffron Balls have the Hindu Rate of Growth.
CC
Don’t bother addressing me as I really can’t be arsed to get into the nitty gritty of your hindutva whine.