In this Pride season, a salute goes out to all the organizations and individuals working for community-building, wellness and recognition of non-heterosexual desis. The queer community is one of the most vibrant sites where today’s culture of the desi diaspora is being developed, just as queer communities, by force or by choice, have blazed new trails for cultures through the ages. And I’m not just talking about better parties and clothes, though I’m certainly grateful for those elements. Over dinner a few nights ago in a group that included four “desi dykes” — one Muslim ABCD sister and her European partner, and a Hindu ABCD sister with her FOB Pakistani partner — I was moved by the way this assembly both reaffirmed and challenged at the same time any number of ideas about the subcontinent and its diaspora.
In a few days the Bay Area group Trikone holds DesiQ: From Visions to Action, a major conference for what the organizers call “the diverse South Asian GBT community and our allies.” The conference will be held on the UCSF campus and has the support of major sponsors like AT&T. The queer Tamil Sri Lankan-American performance artist D’Lo will host the gala on Friday the 23rd. The conferene immediately precedes San Francisco’s Dyke March and SF Pride parade.
The list of workshops to be held at DesiQ offers a powerful picture of the issues at play in the desi queer community. Some workshops are meant to be purely fun, which is great; others look like they will delve into the arcana of queer academic cultural theory, which is an acquired taste but cool for those who dig it. But most illuminating are the workshops with straightforward issue-oriented titles like:
- Marriage Equality in a South Asian Context: the Debates, the Issues
- Hidden Voices: The Lives of Queer Muslim South Asians
- Fuzzy Boundaries: Gender, Sex and Sexuality among South Asians
- Understanding the Psychological Needs of South Asian GLBT Clientele
The presenters include desi activists, academics, doctors, psychotherapists, artists and others. It looks to be one of the most exciting gatherings of desis around, and anyone who makes it to this and then hops down on Saturday morning to Los Angeles for ArtWallah is sure to emerge drenched in creative and mutinous desitude. The only downside is that you’ll miss a few World Cup games, though I am sure there will be a footie-watching caucus amid the DesiQ participants.
There’s a whole other post to be written on queer and allied desi academics‘ contributions to thinking about the diaspora, and another on queer desis online, but there’s time for that. Just as Black history need not be confined to “Black History Month” in February, the conversation within the community about gender and sexuality need not be confined to the annual Pride season. Still, Pride is about, well, pride, and I’m proud of my sisters and brothers and gender-indeterminate siblings for the growth of their movement(s), their increased visibility, and their contributions to the ongoing desi conversation. Have fun y’all, and enjoy the season!
excellent – good to hear someone’s breaking stereotypes! now perhaps the heterosexual crew could join in on the same sort of mould-breaking activity.
Did you mean Queer as Desi?
Fine, you know you guys watch Bravo too 🙂
maybe your kids will decide they’d rather participate than watch on TV.
well fuk you and scroo you too. it’s folks like you that i don’t want as a part of my mainstream, that i don’t want my family and friends to associate with.
+++
Great post, Siddhartha, I’ve been waiting for Pride since it ended last year and the party keeps getting bigger and better here in TO. I’ll be waving my rainbow junda along with my Brazilian one this year, wooooo!
some of these posts are extremely disturbing, i hope its clear which ones. thousands before us have given their lives & livelihoods to make way for just a semblance of equality; millions continue to do the same today. still, intolerance runs so deep. makes me so, so sad. thanks for the awesome post, siddhartha.
Neha
I was trying to be sarcastic and not offensive. Note that it was a word substitution of whatshisname’s postm to reflect the irony of a member of one minority calling out another. It was supposed to be wry, gallows humor even. Apologies.
Scroo That – That was a good one.. 🙂
Oh..looks like some people didn’t get the humor. Better luck next time.
Pride. Gay Pride, Black Pride, Desi Pride. It’s an intersting “civil rights” formulation, in great contrast to MLK’s formulation where “the colour of a man’s skin is of no more significance than the colour of his eyes;” as Bob Marley put it.
It’s obviously contrived, a sort of affimative action like reasoning meant to correct historical injustices by ovecompensating on the other side. But if we take it too seriously we’re forced to adobt the foundation of bigoted/racist thinking…that such things are important and do determine character.
The day all people no longer have pride in mere insignificant accidents of birth is the day we as a society have truely evolved.
The offensive comments above will be deleted and the poster banned; some technical difficulties are causing a bit of a delay on that front.
Be patient, and please ignore the trolls.
Sonia writes: >>now perhaps the heterosexual crew could join in on the same sort of mould-breaking activity
What do you need us for? What’s in it for me?
M. Nam
Idiotic comments have been summarily deleted and users banned without notice. This will continue as needed. If such comments are from desis they are a disgrace to the community.
Please continue the conversation, nevermind the trolls.
Siddhartha, great post. I’ll be missing many of the (desi and non-desi) Pride events in NYC, as I will be out of town, but if you do check them out, please post report(s) here.
(And isn’t it sad that there were/will be more “idiotic comments” on this post?)
P.
To commenter #6 — I summarily banned you. The humor was lost on me. Please contact Abhi for un-banning. Sorry I didn’t get it. Peace…
Siddhartha:
I would have kept the offensive comments. Why whitewash reality? Those comments, in a way, are at the heart of matter.
BTW, I doubt one would read such blatant comments had this been a post on some type of racial pride. It just goes to show which group is truely the global outcast.
manju, there’s a difference between civil disagreement, such as yours, and the kind of drivel we just got rid of. sure, it’s part of reality, but folks know that all too well. we want SM to be a positive and hospitable place to everyone and bigotry and hate, whilst all too real, have no place here.
peace siddhartha
Manju:
Thanks for putting it so eloquently. I totally agree with you. Hopefully, this will happen some day.
It’s true that homophobia isn’t as widely condemned as racism. However, it shouldn’t really be looked upon as ‘who is more oppressed than who?” …because it depends. Gay men who live middle class lifestyles in western societies may not be openly recognized and accepted for their sexual orientation and yet, they do live privileged lives, materially speaking. Racial politics isn’t exactly about ‘recognition’ anymore. That fight was won ….to a large extent. I would argue that it is more about re-distribution. So really, it’s that the terrain is different for both groups, one fights for recognition, while the other for redistribution.
And of course, the reason why it’s more complicated than what I just said above is because an individual have an identity that intersects in terms of race, class, sexuality, gender.
I am really disturbed by the widespread homophobia in the desi community, esp even among second generation desis. It really saddens me. I mean, we live in a homophobic society, but is there something peculiar about certain ethnic groups that makes them especially prone? sigh
Thanks for this post.
Seeing as how this hasn’t happened in the last few thousand years of the human race’s history, I’m not going to hold my breath. In the meantime, I think taking the symbols of opression (the baggage of racial/sexual labels) and inverting them to empower rather diminish is a powerful way of fighting back.
Redistribution of what?
I used to be somewhat homophobic, I’m not anymore. I changed — and hopefully most people can. If one of my kids is gay, I will support him/her fully (I hope.).
Badmash:
You’re too pessimistic. The evolution of the Human race on this front has been extraordinary. Slavery has been abolished (with some notable exceptions) and colonialism has been reduced to “neo-colonialism,” which is devoid of the racism of itÂ’s predecessor (though IÂ’m sure many will disagree.)
To use American racial politics as an analogy, we’ve seen the abolitionist movement evolve into the civil rights movement but then devolve (IMO) into the black power/pride movement. Though the latter may be “taking the symbols of oppression (the baggage of racial/sexual labels) and inverting them to empower” it is nonetheless philosophically untenable, ie it is inherently separatist. It is no coincidence that hate, or even terrorist, groups have emerged from the movement.
Yeah, I understand the logic behind taking the N-word or the word “Queer” and turning it around by using it as a badge of honor, but there is still something very sad, undignified, contradictory, or even dangerous, about it.
I think that this is a very select view of human history. After all “slavery” in its various modes still exists in many parts of the world. In N America it’s called the prison industrial complex with its disproportionate number of black and brown inmates providing (almost) free labour. True, it is not a reality for most suburban people – I guess it the perspective really depends on where you live. Also, neo-colonialism is every bit as vicious as its predecessor – they didn’t have aircraft carriers and the IMF back then!
As to the philosophical problems with turning around the use of words, while it may be sad or undignified, it is the only response with which the even sadder and more vulgar persistence of the ideas that inform these words can be challenged!
Fine, as long as “society” has truly evolved itself as well. It’s evolving, but reluctantly. The problem is, for some, their “insignificant accidents of birth” unfortunately entail all sorts of significant implications. It’s not as if we are all born on equal footing (humanistically, yes; politically and socio-economically, no). So in the meantime, people should be able to seeks ways to empower themselves– politically and socially.
MLK charged whites with contradicting their own principles. He demanded equality on the basis of the constiution, while Black Power rejectied this tradion all out and embraced more radical systems of government that have since proved to be inconsistent with traditional notions of freedom. I agree with the black nationalists refusel to beg for acceptance (and gays should follow that path) but at their core thay are demanding black identity, not universal rights. They insist on respect for blacks as blacks, not as human being simply…and by doing this they lost their humanity.
The Black Panters and Nation of Islam come to mind.
Manju, “You’re too pessimistic. The evolution of the Human race on this front has been extraordinary. Slavery has been abolished (with some notable exceptions) and colonialism has been reduced to “neo-colonialism,” which is devoid of the racism of itÂ’s predecessor (though IÂ’m sure many will disagree.) “
Maybe not pessimism, just pragmatism? This belief in the moral evolution of humans may just give us a reason to rest on our laurels and not really work towards social change. Slavery, as it is defined in one, very specific, way has been abolished in this country. There are plenty of countries where it still exists in the “one person owning another person” definition. In the states, perhaps it has been replaced by the idea that African Americans have been given everything they could possibly desire by society and now the problems they face are created by their own community. Just compare an inner city grocery store to whole foods. Or public schools in the heart of New York City to those in Suburbia. Clearly, the problems with the idea of “separate but equal” are still in play. They’re given less recognition though because we’ve decided that the civil rights movement succeeded fully and need not be taken further.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but I assume you’re speaking of the Black Panthers when you talked about the black power movement devolving into terrorism? The violence associated with that organization could also be considered a response to the terrorism first perpetrated by the FBI. An opinion yes, but the fact that we can have different opinions on the same issue suggests that our society has a long dialogue still left.
For better or for worse, the U.S. is a society driven by capitalism. I don’t think an economic system can really encompass moral issues so that’s why I believe that we have to continue discussing these issues and dissenting with the status quo.
Thanks for this post, sid.
This is a really interesting question, Moornam. At the Banga Sammelan (North American Bengali Conference) last year, I and a couple other folks from the desi queer community in New York did a panel on being queer in desi spaces. This was a real accomplishment for me on a personal level because it was confronting homophobia and finding allies in the heart of my community in a space that had done a fair amount to traumatize me emotionally.
What was interesting to me, though, is that many of the people in the audience (who were all desi) were dealing with similar issues in terms of parental approval of sexual choices (e.g. marriages outside “the community”). To extend the argument further, there’s obviously a whole range of issues in which an ABD (I only use that term here because I’m familiar with my experience…perhaps it applies more broadly to desis and others) is confronted with a distinctly difficult experience of negotiating individual freedom and choice to live as they want with the expectations of society, but in this case, more particularly, family.
Sound familiar?
I have a friend from college (not desi) who said that in some ways, people like me are lucky because we’re forced to have a “coming out” that forces us to confront some issues that help us define clearer boundaries from our parents and the collective weight of several decades or hundreds years of social obligations that have been placed on our backs. This is a problem for all people, I would imagine–we just have to confront it a little more overtly and as a result, not to be obnoxious, are probably somewhat better at it as a result.
Manju, I think what others have termed a “civil disagreement” is just sophistry on your part that’s masking unsympathetic statements–which is probably the most dangerous kind of lying. You may phrase it in a more eloquent way than others, but these ideas–that being lgbt (notice the B!) ultimately is only an “insignificant accident of birth”, that “pride” is “contrived” and “overcompensating” and that it amounts to “bigoted/racist thinking” are fundamentally absurd and betrays a total lack of familiarity with people in the lgbt communities that actually exist. You’re reducing enormously complex things (like “choice” vs. “birth”) and the lgbt human rights struggle to platitudes intended to reinforce your own preexisting beliefs about god knows what (presumably the evolution of human society towards a neoliberal utopia).
There are many critiques I have of “pride celebrations” and “identities” b/c they are devoid of–or perhaps controleld by a certain brand of corporate politics–but that has little do with superimposing my ideas on how lgbt people and particularly intersectional lgbt people who are lgbt AND desi or lgbt AND poor or lgbt AND biofemales havce to deal with the world. I suggest you talk to some of us before issuing pronouncements about what we are all about and why.
I think its useful to look at some ideas regarding racial oppression that Franz Fanon had to understand identity politics. He suggested, that those who experience racism and seek to challenge it, go through 3 stages;
(1) You internalize and agree with the racism given by the dominant group. I.e. Dark skinned brown people buying skin lightning creams.
(2) You reject the racism given by the dominant group, and place great value in that which was once seen as negative. I.e. Black is beautiful slogans during the civil rights movement.
(3) You realize that the logic in stage 2, is closed minded, and see race as a construct, and move away from race being a prime focus in your politic. I.e. Malcolm X changing his stance regarding white people after his Pilgrimage in Mecca.
So, I don’t think there is “something very sad, undignified, contradictory, or even dangerous” about being proud of your difference, especially when that difference is derided. Yes, some people may espouse a view that may seem unproductive, but really it needs to been seen in a larger context, and as part of a dialectic.
And Siddhartha, big-up for the great post!
Saurev
I speak to individuals, not representatives of a race or sexual orientation (or really, ideology). That’s my whole point.
You’re making a lot of assumptions. Basically, I’m a homophobe is your point, lets be blunt. One can’t prove a negative but let me just say I simply don’t feel that way and never have, even as a child. As far as not knowing LGBT people, again not true. FYI, there is a lot of diversity out there and many LGBTs don’t adhere to your orthodoxy (and it doesn’t mean they hate themselves anymore than a jew that criticizes Israel does.) Now do you see the danger of racial identity?
dutty brown boi:
Fanon is an example of what I’m talking about. He starts out as part of a liberation movement then embraces racial identity as a means to counter the colonial psychology. But in it he lays the foundation for a new repression and his flirtations with totalitarianism is quite predictable.
Saurav,
Translation: You want others’ acceptance.
This is what I find difficult to fathom – Why do you care what we think about you, as long as your civil rights are not violated? Why do you need acceptance from family/friends?
When a relative of mine fell in love with someone whom she knew the family/friends would not approve of, she came to me for advice. I told her : “Where was your brain when you started seeing this person? If you crave for family acceptance, should you not have immediately stopped yourself? Now that you are in love, it’s too late. Forget everyone and start a new life. Don’t ask others to accept your choices.“
M. Nam
Not really, though I wasn’t sure. Anyway, thanks for the reassurance, but it’s almost irrelevant here. The ideas that you’re propagating are divisive. I’m not asking you to adhere to anything other than the idea that when you shoot off your mouth about identity politics, you look into the social realities behind it. That’s all.
Of course there’s a lot of diversity–that’s why I was asking you to take a look at it, rather than speaking from an ideologically dogmatic soapbox. Anyway, my point’s been made and other people can decide whether I was right or not. I have no interest in a discussion on the “dangers of racial identity” or any other kind of identity–not because I disagree with you as much as because your take on it is such a vast oversimplification of the things that are happening outside.
Which is now where I will go. 🙂
closing eyes really tight and wishing for Spoor Lam
If only we had a Spoor sign, like a bat sign.
If is contrived, you must implicitly agree with this affirmitave action of sorts, as you visit this site. This site is a celebration of being desi. Why does it exist? Well, because desi-love is kinda lacking out there, in the wild western media. So, it would appear, the people who started this blog filled that void, and it obviously filled a necessary need, as evidenced by the popularity of the blog. You must feel it, as you want your curry flavoured news/info and visit the site. If we were to take your arguments to there logical conclusion, then this site, and other such forums, and celebrations of difference would have no place, and that to me would be a boring world.
Yes, we like our parents to like us. This seems to be a fairly common trait among human beings I’ve met.
I don’t know what this is in reference to. Are you talking about queers? ABDs? Desis? Clarification is welcome, but regardless, I find it bizarre that you don’t care what your family/friends think about you at all. Why do you even stay in touch then?
Forgot to mention, in response to three recent attacks on lgbt people in New York this month, there’s a vigil being organized for this coming Sunday by anti-violence project. You can find more info here if you’re interested.
I don’t understand why you came to this conclusion. Of course I want to be liked by them. Which is why, when I make choices, I make sure that it’s palatable to them. Indeed, even while making small purchases I ask for their opinion and approval.
On the other hand, you seem to want to be free to make your own lifestyle choices, without getting their approval first, and yet still want them to accept your lifestyle. Isn’t that self-centeredness?
It’s with the reference to LGBT folks wanting to be accepted and loved by everyone. The come across as people with weakness of resolve. People with conviction in their choices will not give a damn about other’s opinion.
M. Nam
dutty brown boi:
Very clever. I admire a good turnaround.
Truth is I like visiting a lot of differnt “cultures”. I eat sushi everyday and find myself on debating on feminist websites too. I read Noam Chomsky while admiring Ronald Reagan. I especially like to read the Black press which is meant for black eyes only.
But yeah, this website is about desi identity, which philosphically I’m oppossed to, so maybe you got me there.
MoorNam’s advice to his relative, like many of his comments, is idiosyncratic and blunt. But if you think about it, it must have been very empowering to his relative, assuming she took the advice.
He’s positing another way to deal with disenfranchisement.
But instead of thinking out of the box, we’re all just going to channel SpoorLam.
No. It’s independence, and less a desire for “approval” than one for “don’t hate us”. Your argument is tautological, but quite frankly, I don’t have the time to dissect it in depth, so please make do with the following. It’s no more self-centered than wanting to pick your own career path, and choosing to live your own life rather than a life prescribed (and proscribed) by others. I won’t speak for all GLBTQ desis, but for me, being gay was never a “choice”, no more than being heterosexual (presumably?) was for you.
So if you’ve got “conviction” in your heterosexuality, which I assume you do, then why do you run every angle of your lifestyle past other people for their approval? I’m not trying to attack you personally, but you seem to be under the distinct misapprehension that GLBTQ persons want passionately to be integrated into society. That’s not the case–and again, speaking just for me–I don’t really care who loves me as long as they accept me. I don’t care about other people’s opinions except for when they’re blatantly impacting my life. I don’t want approval and vindication, but I want my family and my friends to realise that my identity as a homosexual man is rooted in my sense of self, not in the popular misconceptions that seem to permeate the universe (particularly the desi one) at large. I’m not a paedophile. I’m not a eunuch. I wasn’t molested reapeatedly, nor am I mentally indisposed.
I’m a person. End of story. That’s all I want them to accept. I’m a person, just like every other person they know, who will undoubtedly one day be an “aunty” or an “uncle” (the former seem to have more fun, hence the option). I have my own (host of) issues with Pride and the queer community, but I don’t see that I’ve done anything “wrong” or “weak” in asking for my family and friends to love me the same way they would if I were heterosexual.
It’s not a choice. Life would be a lot easier if it had been.
All you fags and homos and Indian women having the sex with negroes, Muslims, Americans and cobras, do you think you deserve the acceptance of decent normal model minority and upstanding Hindu citizens of the USA? What is the matter with you? Are you stupid? You deserve the castigation of your community for falling in love with someone outside your acceptable list of partners, and you were warned of that from when you were children! So why did you disobey? And now you expect sympathy? Only anti Hindu bigots like Shashi Tharoor will give you sympathy.
Now another message to all the queer Hindus. I want to know what is wrong with your manhood. When you do the gay, you diminish Saffron Balls and make Saffron Balls into Pink Balls. Pink Balls are no good for fighting against the evil masses who plot to destroy Assertive Hindu Nation. Don’t dilute the color of my balls. If you do, there will be trouble, and you will be forced to paint my balls in recompense.
I would like to invite all Hindu Homos to a SpoorLam youth camp. Together we do things to teach you about the GLORY of HINDU civilization and do healthy things to cure you of the gay. We wear tight khaki shorts and get Masters like Shri MoorNam to show us anal breathing techniques. We also do wrestling in almond oil wearing nothing but khakhi shorts. Of course we shower together and bow down before picture of Shri Narendra Modi Sahib, and we do body building, weight lifting, squat thrusts, dancing to Bollywood songs, then we drool over big twelve inch models of Indian Army missiles. As you can see, there is nothing homosexual in the culture of our ethos at all, no siree, nothing gay or macho in this at all.
Come back to Hindu Assertive Nation you Homos and Sluts who live with white men! Stop destroying Hinduism and giving ammunition to anti-Hindu bigots! For falling in love and wanting to remain in touch with Assertive Hindus, you are bigger scum than Shashi Tandoor!
Hail
MasturbationMogambo!I am, however, apparently capable of misspelling the word “repeatedly”. Forgive me. I have to go beat myself over the head with something now.
Too many anti Hindu Assertiveness Bigots try and mock, but they shall not succeed, because they do not realise the box is already empty, and we must worship the lingam of the out of box thinkers.
Hail Manju!
Telling someone to buck up and leave because it’s their fault their own families don’t support them isn’t revolutionary thought. Isn’t leaving the only choice often given to someone who chooses a path that diverts from tradition?
Touche, SpoorLam. Nicely done, esp. #41.
Re: SpoorLam
I give the Pink Balls segment “A”.
Sin,
Good points all.
Because their opinion matters to me. And if they disagree, I don’t go against their wishes. I expect the same from them – they don’t get to make choices without my approval either.Freedom is what you define it to be. I have made a choice to run all my choices past those who mean deeply to me.
Enough about me…
Assuming you are financially independent, can’t you just tell those who are “blantantly” impacting your life to jump off a cliff? If you are financially dependant, don’t you think they have every right to impact your life?
I understand. But I learnt a long time ago that asking others to accept your point of view is an exercise in futility. This is something that happens over time, and it’s a never-ending process. You must simply continue to do your thing, and if you are correct, the truth will manifest itself. Asking others to accept you, believe you, treat you as equal etc is a violation of their morality. You don’t want to accept their morality – so you should not expect them to accept yours. If you are correct, they will come around. If they are correct, you will come around. If both are correct, then both of you will come around. There is no need to make a song and dance about it with “pride months” etc.
M. Nam
You are a typical example of the weak willed, pathetic specimen of Hindu untermenschen. The Assertive Hindu Nation is better off without your kind.
All should worship the lingam of revolutionary out-of-the box thinkers who tell you to shut the fukk up and stop whining. This is genius compared to you whining homos and sluts who want to maintain your family ties and still have sex with unsuitables and in unsuitable entrances. For that crime you deserve all bad things.
This is revolutionary advice!
Nobody ever thought it before!
It’s out of the box!
Hail Mogambooooooooo!
Should all moral support, help and compassion be only for selfish reasons? I don’t see why we should first see what is in it for us when it comes to taking on any kind of discrimination and prejudice.
They chose a path that they knew their family would not approve of, but now they are at the point of no return, so they want their families to adopt their morality, but they don’t want to accept their family’s morality.
This is a psychotic in the making. “I want you to change because of me, but I will not change because of you.” Lives have been ruined, wars have been fought, civilizations have ended because of this line of thinking.
If you want people to accept you, you have to do what they approve of. You don’t call a bunch of religious Hindus/Muslims over to dinner and serve Beef/Pork, do you?
M. Nam