As the eminent Arnold Toynbee pointed out, “Civilizations die from suicide, not by murder”. Here, Arundhati Roy carries her Far-Left Post-Modernism to its logical suicidal ends –
…the longer you stay [in places like Iraq], the more you’re enforcing these tribal differences and creating a resistance, which obviously, on the one hand, someone like me does support; on the other hand, you support the resistance, but you may not support the vision that they are fighting for. And I keep saying, you know, I’m doomed to fight on the side of people that have no space for me in their social imagination, and I would probably be the first person that was strung up if they won. But the point is that they are the ones that are resisting on the ground, and they have to be supported, because what is happening is unbelievable.
So, it seems she’d rather cast her lot with the barbarians who’d “string her up” than implicitly support the Western hegemony responsible for her material well being, freedom of speech and physical security. So be it.
(hat tip – DesiDudeInGotham whose submission to the News page roused me from my blog slumber)
[previous SM coverage on Roy – “Back the Resistance” and “Tunku vs. Arundhati“]
For the record, I despise Ms. Roy’s politics, but for the sake of argument, allow me to try to turn the tables. During the Cold War, didn’t the US have support the Mujahideen (which later transformed into the Taliban) in Afghanistan in order to defeat the communists. In other words, they had to support a lesser evil in order to defeat a greater one. Or before that, the US allied with the USSR in order to defeat the Nazis.
Obviously, Roy’s premise that the US/liberal democracy/Capitalism/globalization/neo-colonialism is a great evil is where she goes wrong…but if one accepts the premise then her logic is understandable. It’s just a form of realpolitick…an acknowledgment that the world is imperfect.
believe me, I’m a BIG FAN of the “lesser of 2 evils” argument.
It’s sad that for Arundhati being “strung up” by someone who shares none of her beliefs about the role of women, freedom of speech, etc. is somehow less than something associated with the USofA….
In the case of Mujahaddin vs. the Soviets, it’s pretty clear that the Muj were the lesser. After all, they didn’t have nukes pointed at us.
How many Haditha massacres have not even been reported yet?
Massacre children and women – the brave armed forces of the USA.
Remember My Lai?
The great American civilisation in full effect. Blasting heads off children with machine guns.
Mrs.Roy’s views are devoid of any understanding of politics or a nation under duress. She has made numerous speeches against the Indian government and their tough measures in Kashmir. She does not need a moment’s hesistation to lash out at the army’s activities, However what i find lacking is an appreciation of the sacrifices made by Indian and American soldiers to terrorism. Its easy for her to make all these passionate left wing statements or join a crowd censuring President Bush while a strategic alliance is being made. She even pointed out that she was ‘worried’ about the way the India media,sports and entertainment supported their nation during the Kargil War http://ccrma.stanford.edu/~peer/arundhatiRoy.html. I haven’t seen any statement yet where she acknowledges sacrifices made by the Indian army during the Drass-Kargil operation. Mrs.Roy apparently has a vision of an utopian India where policemen do not spit betel on the sidewalks or peace in Kashmir can be achieved by a bollywood song and dance number and cheers and kisses everywhere. Mrs. Roy wake up and smell the roses that are not there! During an insurgency measures have to be taken to control it. First Kashmir, then Bihar, then Arunachal Pradesh maybe even Kerala. Violence and force sometimes are a necessary evil to control violence.
I despise Ms. Roy’s literary efforts for its sophomoric wordsmithing and her politics for its pseudo-intellectual anti-establishmentarianism. Wow! My writing is getting infected by her now.
Anyhow, to quote a street back-talk, “Who died and left you King?” It is a question one should ask America. However, since a country is not its politics, we should ask this question of Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld. What moxie, or to give these guys the benefit of doubt – naivete – to go into Iraq to “civilize” the country by deposing its ex-American stooge dictator and foisting democracy on its public with the might of the military. Ridiculous! Collateral damage? God knows how many innocent women and children.
To be against the American mistakes in Iraq, one does not have to share Ms. Roy’s ultra left politics. One only needs common sense.
And thus the crux of Roy’s strange, and apparently shared calculus – a few dozen deaths at the hands of errant American troops garner for more enmity than 70,000/yr at the hands of a (brown, 3rd world) dictator. Enough loathing, in fact, that she’d prefer to be “strung up”.
Well said Floridian. Arundhati Roy is extremely mixed up. But American policy cannot be allowed to be
The right wing maniacs in the White House have not only killed tens of thousands of Iraqi civilians in their ‘shock and awe’ campaign, they also gave every Islamist fundamentalist a target to fight against and invited them to strike and kill Iraqis even further with their ‘draining of the swamp’. Now they blast the heads off children in Haditha and God knows how many other unreported places, living up to the honorable reputation of My Lai. But it’s the idiocies of Arundhati Roy that are the real threat, not the obscenity of Americans blasting the heads off children in the name of freedom and democracy. Craven hypocrites to a man.
So Vinod, why don’t you campaign for America to send in its armed forces to every nation that carries out tyrannical murder? What about Zimbabwe, Congo, China? What about the tens of thousands of children and women and men slaughtered by American missiles? At what point does America become the bad man? After what death count of Iraqis killed by Americans bombing civilians do you actually start to introspect? I understand that the American right are full of blood thirsty racists and cowboys and maniacs who don’t think of ‘Eye-Rakeez’ as fully human – that is why they carried out sado-masochistic tortures on peanut sellers in Abu Ghraib and continue to sanction torture. But I know that you are not cut from that cloth. So at what point do you introspect Vinod? How many children need to get their heads blown off by American GI’s before you understand the crassness of this whole sorry and dirty squalid war?
All the while, Iran builds up her nuke and laughs at the old boots and garbage cans found in the bunkers where Saddam’s imaginary weapons lay hidden.
In a democratic set-up, we should accept differing world views and encourage dissent. The mainstream media is completely dominated either by big multinational corporations in “democracies” or by governments in dictatorships. So alternative radio and television programmes like Amy Goodman’s show “The war and peace report”, where Arundhati Roy was interviewed is an absolute necessity. Arundhati Roy is not a leftist because she is against the war in Iraq. She is an intellectual who speaks out fearlessly against against all forms of violence all over the world; military violence, government violence, feudal violence, “development” violence, media violence , etc.. We need more people like her to take anti-establishment perspectives. Otherwise, what is the meaning of democracy ? In the cradle of Western democracy, Athens, Socrates was willing to die for his right to dissent. For those interested, here is the link to the TV show: http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=06/05/23/1358250
It takes someone as gifted and compassionate as Arundhati Roy to tell us what we need to know about our own country. Her voice is compelling enough that the main stream media will actually cover her once in a while. Read her book, An Ordinary Person’s Guide to Empire. The thesis is sobering: All governments are corrupt. The media and businesses own them and do their bidding through them. Public education follows in step. We can expect nothing more. The only way to effect change is through global boycotts that can dent a multinational corporation’s bottom line. Hopefully the internet will help us organize them more effectively. The sad thing is that it’s everybody’s dream in India to move to the US. Their culturally and spiritually incomparable country of soulful people is being decimated by our materialism. Arundhati Roy speaks the truth beautifully, brilliantly, and without fear. May we strive to emulate her.
Hell yeah! So, why doesn’t she fight for reducing the size of Government in all spheres of life?
M. Nam
India and the USA have a lot in common: fake elections giving fake results, the rich getting richer and the poor getting poorer, the leaders stage-managing mass murder in warfare and stage-managed mass media all contrived to benefit the rich and dissing the poor. No wonder the India/USA leaders get along so well: it’s because both nations are run by racketeers at the top of the governments. Impeach or otherwise get rid of all these illegitimate and savage leaders.
AR is entitled to her beliefs. She definitely is a great speaker and articulates her views well, but I have never understood what she stands for, and not stands against.
Have you wondered why things are the way they are? I have thought about it a lot and conculded that it is because of our collective apathy. We have allowed those who we call crooks to hijack our governments. If you did not want Bush to be elected again, did you really do all you could to make it happen? Did you take time off your busy schedule and go campaigning against him in places he was strong? Why is it that we, who think that we know better, have no power? It is because we only talk and do little. Money is power. If those of us who are business leaders spent 20 to 30% of our working hours doing something that is of no direct personal benefit to us, things would be very different indeed. Roy is doing great work. We should strive to do more than her. And we must start today.
Arundhati says: “But now it’s happening in India, and the rhetoric of democracies in place, because they have learned how to hollow out democracy and make it lose meaning. All it means, it seems, is elections, where whoever you vote for, they are going to do the same thing.” Sounds very familiar, huh? A lot like the US.
Truly a wonderful person. She has a view of the big picture, knows where we’ve been on a large scale and can see where the world is going. She is a true visionary that understands the mistakes of history to try to make a positive impact on the future. Predatory national and corporate practices are killing us all, inside as well as outside. A cleansing of the mind against intolerance , predatory practices and a patriarchal system predicated on power is necessary for us so that we all can speak to one another as human beings.
“We have such a litany of the history of incineration when you embrace the government of the United States.” A. Roy
And these aren’t the first Indians to discover this truth about this Christian nation. I would just advise them not to sign any treaties with us or accept any blankets from the American people either unless they’ve been autoclaved sterile. You fuck with the bull, be prepared to take the horn.
“He visited Gandhi’s grave, and first his dogs visited Gandhi’s grave. Then, you know, Gandhians were, like, wanting to purify it. And I said, ‘Look, I don’t mind the dogs. I mind Bush much [more] than the dogs.’ ” A. Roy
Me too. This speaks for itself. The lesson for Hindus? Some life is not only not precious to anyone and would not be missed. Yes, I’m talking about insects and parasitic life forms, but not the innocent ones in the ground, rather, those of the Republican persuasion.
Why technophobicgeek, she stands for peace, justice, equality, environment, freedom, democracy… and she stands against dams, Bush, BJP, Congress, Coke etc etc.
Detect a pattern? Once side of the equation is made up of only generics and the other side of only specifics. It’s a classic dualistic smoke-n-mirror which most despots pull out when they need to seize control and ruin a country.
She’s the kind of person who you would show to your niece/sister/daughter and say: “See – if you don’t study hard and learn to think rationally, you will end up like that.”
M. Nam
Arundhati has the clearest vision since I don’t know who. She, more so than any thinker and political commentator just seems to get it, to see through the foggy bullshit of spin, of corruption, of misspeak and administration lies. The fact that she does, and the fact that she is unapologetically vocal and committed when expressing these crystalline views should be an example to all of us: hold fast to your convictions. Find out exactly which side you ought to be on (hint: there will most usually be a gun pointed in that direction) and fight for it, for justice without violence, for the rights of all.
“You pick your side, and then you fight, you know? But in a country like India, I’m not seeing that many radical positions taken by writers or poets or artists, you know? It’s all the seduction of the market that has shut them up like a good medieval beheading never could.” says Arundhati Roy.
This is a very insightful comment. Back in the 60’s, they say that pop music was a big catalyst for social change – everyone from the Doors (Unknown Soldier, Peace Frog, etc.) to the folkies (all we are saying, is give peace a chance…) was anti-war. Now pop music has been completely absorbed into the corporate system, homogenized, and endless regurgitated – political protest is not the corporate mantra. Underground hip-hop and punk music has replaced that role – but can these artists get airplay, promotion, etc. by the corporate music system?
Take the hip-hop group, Dead Prez. Will these lyrics get played on Clear Channel?
“You can’t fool all the people all of the time But if you fool the right ones, then the rest will fall behind Tell me who’s got control of your mind? your world view? Is it the news or the movie you’re taking your girl to? (uh) Know what i’m sayin cause Uncle Sam got a plan If you examine what they tellin us then you will understand What they plantin in the seeds of the next generation Feeding our children miseducation No one knows if there’s UFO’s or any life on mars Or what they do when they up in the stars Because i don’t believe a word of what the president said He filling our head with lies got us hypnotised When he be speaking in cold words about crime and poverty Drugs, welfare, prisons, guns and robbery It really means us, there’s no excuse for the slander But what’s good for the goose, is still good for the gander See…
Chorus: I don’t believe Bob Marley died from cancer 31 years ago i woulda been a panther They killed Huey cause they knew he had the answer The views that you see in the news is propaganda”
Not likely!
This is so delightful! I am jumping with joy to kick some first class ARoy ass and ARoy ass lickers. In my humble opinion, she needs some real good spanking!
Manish, you have my gratitude for this post. Too much of collectivism and compassion on SM was making me feel nauseated for quite some time.
Bring it on, boys! Lets see what you got.
Regards,
Mmm well, it’s obvious that she’s fully aware of the irony of her position! At least she’s admitted as much – far more than the people who claim to be fighting for freedom while constructing Orwell’s worst nightmare.
So you think that the US is doing what its doing in Iraq for “the role of women, freedom of speech, etc” ?? Isnt that a little naive??
My heart goes out to Roy for her courage to speak out on India’s inequalities, which are getting worse by the day. News blackout of the wave of governmental violence exacerbates the dilemma. Usually most news about India is generally about “Bollywood” and outsourcing of jobs to Bangalore, etc. and the tension in Kashmir-Dodge City with skiing. Thomas Friedman obviously only saw (and reported) on what he WANTED to see. That is lousy journalism. Therefore, he Potemkinized his reports. It’s a case of “parachute journalism”- being a place at short length of time to report on an topic without fully grasping the larger picture of the assignment. Ergo he’s misleading his readers. India has a long way to go to solve its pressing problems as we do in the United States. To Indians, don’t become like us, ruled by a bunch of right-wing fanatics running roughshod over our civil liberties and by the invasion of big-box retail outlets like Wal-Mart. Your traditions are being threatened. Resist being drawn into the American sphere of influence, although it might be too late. You were dominated by the British; now you’re about to be dominated by the United States. Heaven help India.
“I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.” VOLTAIRE, French philosopher.
Arundhati Roy proves that there are intelligent, articulate, inspiring people with a progressive vision who are deeply committed to something beyond narcissistic self-promotion.
It is true and at the same time ironic that very few people will raise issues related to dalits, poors, womans and farmers in India like Roy. Indians are hardwired in their brain about castes (one human humiliate the other in the name of caste, and it is multi tiered), myths and religious stupidity.
Actually mon frere, to paraphrase your good self, Mme. Roy’s thesis can be summed up as:
“I approve of what you say, even if it kills me.”
That is the essential Fiskiness of her stance.
Speaking of Arundhati, has anyone seen “We”? It’s a great documentary featuring one of her wonderful speeches. I love it!
You can download it for free at this site: http://www.weroy.org
Oui, DesiDudeInGotham, voici la réponse de Voltaire:
“A witty saying proves nothing.”
I think the real reason Charlie Rose decided not to broadcast that interview is that Arundhati unwittingly touched the Red Button of American politics : Israel’s nuclear weapons. It is a taboo to say or admit that Israel possesses nuclear weapons. That’s why he was annoyed at Arundhati , that she had the nerve to mention it. If a politician mentions that Israel has nuclear weapons, the Israeli lobby will use its money to defeat the politician by giving money to his opponent; and if a writer talks about Israeli nuclear weapons, then the lobby will work to silence him/her.
But what is AR’s solution to the problem’s involving militancy whether it be Kashmir, Iraq or any of the eastern states? The rest of India is relatively peaceful albeit with social problems. Can you imagine the scenario if America left Iraq or India left Kashmir to its own devices ? Don’t these nations have a responsibility to the occupied states. The presence of the military is the only reason there is not a power vaccum in the region which would probably be filled by terrorists.
Yesh,
Maybe you skipped TiVo-ing the episode where he interviews Amre Moussa, Secy-General of the League of Arab States. So I guess that the real reason he decided that the interview was not worth showing because of it didn’t have anything sensible to add.
The thing about Arundhati Roy is that like most neo-Marxists, she is quick to find fault rather than provide ANY constructive means of finding solutions.
Keshbhai, How can you compare Kashmir and Iraq ? Kashmir is part of India or at least a neighbouring “lost” state/country? Iraq like Vietnam before, has nothing to do with the U.S.A. The only reason the Americans are there is to dominate the Gulf countries and counter Iran and Russia!
Moornam:
Re: Post # 18—`She’s the kind of person who you would show to your niece/sister/daughter and say: “See – if you don’t study hard and learn to think rationally, you will end up like that.”‘
Arundhati Roy has made a lot of money and no longer needs to earn a living. I wish I could end up like that.
Yesh Prabhu
Good point. Very perceptive. I’m always amazed at how Israel’s big nuclear stash is conveniently ignored by so many.
Arundhati Roy may have her weaknesses, but she at least stands up and speaks out on behalf of the things she believes in …AND puts her money where her mouth is as when she donated her entire cash prize for her book to the Narmada andolan.
Arundhati Roy has been nominated for the prestigious Spanish Prince of Asturias Prize for 2006. The award given to eight people every year in several identified fields carries a cash prize of 50,000 euro and a sculpture by Catalan artist, Joan Miro. A foundation named after Spain’s Crown Prince Felipe, who is also known as Prince of Asturias, chooses the winners in diverse fields such as communications and humanities, social sciences, international cooperation, scientific investigation, arts, harmony and sports. The Prince gives away the prizes in the northern city of Oviedo each fall. Others nominated for this year’s award with Ms. Roy include Amos Oz of Israel, Ismail Kadare of Albania, Philip Roth and Margaret Atwood of the United States, Elena Poniatowska of Mexico and Turkey’s acclaimed novelist Orhan Pamuk. Even if we don’t agree with each and every stand taken by Roy, we should be proud of this international recognition. There aren’t so many Indian women who are able to attract such a world wide audience.
So have many drug-dealers, crooked politicans, scamsters, shysters and bugaboos.
I’d rather make money doing something productive.
M. Nam
Yes, may we strive to emulate Arundhati Roy, as this person who commented so clearly does with her/his beautiful summation. Yes, so sad that the richness that is India is undergoing such butchering, and results in mutiny. When will we ever learn?
Maybe our skepticism plays into the hands of part of a larger conservative effort to de-legitimize voices other than so-called ‘authorities.’ In other words, the conservative mind frame wants to limit the number of voices in a discourse. Our government and the corporations that pander to it could have a vested interest in keeping us dumbed down and focused on pure entertainment, immediately moving to discredit anyone — celebrity or not — who steps up to try and actually make a difference.
Yesh & Fink:
What world are you living in? Israeli nukes are widely know, as a quick search of the moderately left leaning “paper of record” shows, the subject is routinely discussed. The reason few are up in arms about it is the same reason few are up in arms about India having nukes. Both contries are relatively free. But when nations or people that despise freedom posses nukes, we should then be concerned…like pakistan or the palestinians.
as far as…
this goes, i don’t like to silence people as bigots (unless they are one) but this one so closely resembles anti-semetic stereotypes that I would at least like to give you an opportunity to cite examples of this before asking you to explore your own prejudices.
As far as…
this goes. it’s called democracy Yesh. And all of us should work to expell such hate mongerers as Cynthia Mckinney from congress.
Here is an interesting article.
Here is a snippit from an interview w/ Roy about the Charlie Rose incident. No mention of Israeli nukes being the reason it was never broadcast. But maybe the
Jews…er… “Israeli lobby” got to Roy too.Abhi:
Thanks for the link. I’m familiar w/ the John Mearsheimer and Stephen Walt paper and that they have been labled ant-semetic. I too like to default on the side of free speech. And the truth is the paper was published and widely discussed. Some think it ani-semtic b/c this (Jews controlling the media and Washington) is a stereotype (i’m open to the possibility that sterotypes may have a basis in reality) and they also have free speech rights to express their opinion.
If someone printed a paper saying blacks are lazy I think it would get the same reaction. The point is this does not prove that Blacks control the media anymore than it proves Jews do in the Mearsheimer & Walt incident.
Voltaire:
I am glad you are tacitly retracting your previous quip as well. I agree that quips are perfectly useless. And a waste of bandwidth.
I get the feeling she knows she’s a target and she speaks her mind still. No one is saint and after all these years, she does it because she cares about people. I disagree with positions she takes but she’s a hero to many
Particularly for an Indian Woman to take a stand, she relies on her ideas and her language to make her arguements, whether right or wrong
Bob Marley One Love
I don’t think you’re putting Roy in the proper context. (And, starting with a link from Andy Sullivan doesn’t exactly inspire confidence.)
Roy is, I think, making the case for democracy in actuality and not just as rhetoric. At times, we may not be in agreement with what others choose. But, hey, the majority wins in a democracy.
And, I don’t think she’s saying that Islamic fundamentalism is better than liberal secularism. But, she is saying that the American rhetoric is hypocritical given our actions.
If an invester had a choice between “democratic” India and “communist” China for a long term investment, which would he/she pick? Taking current conditions into account, probably India. Thats where it hurts the most to Indian communists. And the counter attack is: “India is not a democracy”!! Ideological slaves, “you know”!
The sad thing is that it’s everybody’s dream in India to move to the US. Their culturally and spiritually incomparable country of soulful people is being decimated by our materialism.
I like this comment.. :-)..
But sorry. no thanks.. Indians would rather have materialism than being culturally and spiritually incomparable with soulful people.. Indians can decide it later.. Come out of the “Gandhi” movie and other Satyajit Ray movies . Will ya??.
I sense such pettiness amongst many towards Roy. It’s amazing. Someone mentioned that “Mrs.Roy’s views are devoid of any understanding of politics or a nation under duress”. Really? So, extraordinary measures are needed to curb threats to a nation from within, that might spring from legitimate abuses? How many of you know about TADA? Indira Gandhi’s despicable emergency? 1984 state sponsored riots against Sikhs in New Delhi? And the fact that no one has ever been sentenced for those riots(Delhi)? Don’t even take me to the extrajudicial killings of thousands of Sikhs in Punjab, most of whom were not militants(as the propagandists would have you believe), but regular Joes, like my own uncle. Check this out: http://www.law.harvard.edu/students/orgs/hrj/iss15/kaur.shtml
Many Indians I have met in NY over the years seem to have this strong sense of Indian nationalism. But that is the norm amongst expatriates, unless they are ones who sought political asylum in the US to get away from all the BS. Anyone on this forum affected during/by the bombay, gujarat or delhi riots? India overall, holds a disgusting record on human rights issues. But oh, it must all be necessary! Lets do our research and shed some of that ethnocentric nationalism, before we are critical of those who speak for the voiceless. Roy is fantastic, and has done more for pressing causes than most of us.