I’ve always loved comic books–actually, any illustrated book. It seems insane that you wouldn’t. Why wouldn’t you want words and pictures to work together, in harmony? But many people don’t. They think the pictures are a shortcut, that the words cheapen the images. This post is clearly not for them. I believe in shortcuts, as starting points to learning. When I was 10, I found a book of “collected stories of Shakespeare.” I didn’t know who Shakespeare was, but the book–illustrated, of course–introduced me to his wondrous, unlimited imagination. That kind of fascination does not die easily. For me, it taking and eventually teaching classes in Shakespeare, and rushing to every Shakespearean adaptation, no matter how bizarre (Ethan Hawke’s Hamlet springs to mind as does Pacino’s Looking for Richard). If it hadn’t been for that initial taste, in bite size 10-year old pieces, I might be one of those unfortunates who glaze over every time the Bard is mentioned.
So, back to comic books. I’m an avowed X-Men fan, and was weaned on Wonder Woman, but my first comic book love was and still is Amar Chitra Katha. Wait–is that eye-rolling I see? I hope not.
Amar Chitra Katha was my “short cut” into Indian culture. I was lucky; my parents always had Indian friends who they saw often, who had children I who I went to school with, and tried to surround us with the culture that they had grown up with. As soon as I learned to read, my father did two things: bought me a nice “Ex-Libris” leather bookmark, and the entire Amar Chitra Katha comic book series, bound with red paper covers.
Bear in mind that I grew up with parents who strictly limited my weekly library book allowance to 5 (and no magazines), and you will understand, as I did then, the significance of this purchase. By some quirk, I started with the second 10 books first–Chanyaka through Vikramaditya. But I quickly read every one.
For those of you who do not know, Amar Chitra Katha is a venerable old Indian comic book series that tells the tales of Indian myths, history and religious stories. There has been much recent criticism of the comics; here is a typical link.
This article throws a lot of heat at AKC’s way, some deserved. Racist? Of course–lots about the caste system in ancient Hindu culture. Sexist? Ditto. Badly written? Well, it was pretty pompous–I made the mistake of “taking a vow of silence” on the playground one day that ended somewhat badly for me. And I know that many people minded having to look up words like “dharma” or “asura” but I was fine with it. (of course, if you’ve read my Nerd/Geek entry, you’d know why).
I did not learn many bad lessons from Amar Chitra Katha. I was perplexed by how many people had blue skin. But mostly, I learned that my culture was beautiful, that it was old and important, that its values were very complex. I went easily from stories of Guru Gobind Singh to Buddha to Valmiki to Noor Jahan, unaware that I was supposed choose one over the other. That was the one thing that Amar Chitra lacked–animosity. I read stories, but I didn’t really grasp how many old angers divided the cultures I read about. And I still have a weak timeline of Indian history.
The AKC comics are not perfect, but what children’s literature is? It’s all exaggeration and fantasy, run through with threads of violence and death. It’s always about the beautiful conquering the ugly–but also about the clever conquering the stupid, and the lazy. My collection of AKC sparked a sense of identity in myself. I loved my MTV and played with Barbies, but this, this ancient, magical India, was part of me too.
As a non-practicing Hindu, I would hate, absolutely hate, an Amar Chitra Katha that didn’t allow all religions to tell their stories in comic book form, that allowed me to understand why Sikhs wear turbans and why Hindu sages once starved themselves, what the practice of syamvara is. The stories will never be fully accurate–they are just like my book of “Shakespeare stories” but the planted a seed of interest in Indian history that hasn’t gone away. With Amar Chitra Katha, I could incorporate my eight-year old interpretations of Buddhist teachings (that Siddharta was so good!)with Vedic ones (go Rama! go Krishna!), to investigate what traditions (polygamy, child marriage, widow burning) are no longer central to the culture. I want my children to have the same opportunity that I did to act out both the stories of Akbar the Clever and the Mahabharata. I’ve heard rumors that these comic books are or have been edited by the Hindu nationalist party–I sincerely hope not. I’ve never believed in silencing minority voices.
That said, I wouldn’t mind updated, glossy versions of the old AKC comics, a few more stories about clever apsaras or sage’s daughters who outwitted demons disguised as foxes. A few more warrior maidens like Noor Jahan rather than martyrs like Padmini, and I’d be ready to stock my library for future generations of lawyerwriters.
But all the excitement I feel is nothing compared to what I’d feel if someone did a really good adaptation of a Mahabharata–top of the line special effects, great storytelling, top writing. I haven’t seen it yet. Because I love the story, I have suffered through years of plastic-looking battle scenes, melodramatic line-reading and blandly smiling Krishnas. If movies like The Matrix and Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon can revolutionize action sequences, the least we can do is get the folks behind Xena the Warrior Princess to get us a convincing Ghatokacha, or at least Ravana with heads that don’t look like a row of masks. And can we get battle scenes that consist more that than men in cardboard armor fighting clanging swords in front a smoke machine to the sounds of pots and pans clanging? Please? Someone, look up Saving Private Ryan or even Gladiator for a good war sequence. What’s wrong with keeping the comic-book sensibility, the great visuals that AKC popped into my head, alive! If they can do it with Spiderman, they can do it with Abhimanyu.
After all, what more can I expect from the X-Men? I don’t have high hopes for the movie, which is coming out this Friday, and which I will probably see anyway. I believe this fixation will last about as long as the opening credits. First of all, as I have said before, no Gambit. What, was Josh Lucas too waterlogged from Poseidon? Second, lesser director. It’s a tough thing to go from Bryan Singer (The Usual Suspects) to Brett Ratner (Rush Hour). The latter is a competent action director; the former is a storyteller. Third: I just KNOW they’re going to blow the whole Dark Phoenix storyline.
If I get bored during the movie, I’ll work on casting my fantasy Mahabharata in my head. Unfortunately, I really don’t know too many Bollywood actors, which makes keeping the fantasy cast brown and proud very hard. Will we have to plug in key roles using….white actors? Maybe even…the token African-American? The scandal! The riots! The ritual suicides waiting to happen!
Just remember: anything is better than Salman Khan.
The only reason they made X-men 3 was so that asshole Avi Arad could gloat that he had released his xmen movie ahead of bryan singer’s superman returns. They steamrolled the hell out of it and I don’t think its going to be anything but MI-3, but with lasers and sentinels. Before they wanted to take their sweet time, but then bryan singer got tired of waiting and went to superman and now its a marvel vs. dc showdown. Not that I have high hopes for superman returns either, I’m hearing its going to be more like superman 2 and a lot of it is just going to be a rehash of the 1978 donner version. Why would I pay money to see that again? I used to be a big amar chitra katha fan. Last time I went back to India I was going to buy the entire mahabharata collection. One look at the collection and I ended up buying the text version. Still, it wasn’t a bad series for its time, and it was certainly interesting reading for those of us brought up on Mahabharata and Ramayana on television.
Neeraja – have you seen the filmed version of The Mahabharata, as interpreted by Peter Brook’s theater company? Special effects – only to the extent one could imagine from a stage production – interpretive, but not dazzling. Fairly continuous storytelling – and that’s a feat, considering that epics are episodic. Writing…it was too long ago for me to remember – but I remember certain scenes sounding nearly poetic.
For me, watching it was an awakening. I’d heard / read the stories from other sources, of course – a Bengali comic version, non-AKC, I believe. But Peter Brook’s version is what I see in my mind’s eye, always.
HA! One of my prized posessions is the remnants of my Amar Chitra Katha collection, and I have been meaning to go back and fill up the holes in the Mahabharat series. I actually used to wait for those to come up. I picked up some more this last trip to India.
They have their faults, but they’re still pretty awesome as comic books go. I would miss the cheap paper and musty colors, honestly.
My favorite example of special effects sans special effects is a Ramayan that only goes as far as the wedding called, “Sita’s Wedding.” It’s pretty flippin’ awesome. One of the very few religious movies that still holds up 20 years later. The director is Bapu, and I highly recommend you find a copy if you can. I have no idea where one can do such a thing. I’ve heard it was aired on the BBC once, and that’s the source of the subtitles.
Are you talking the telugu movie “Sita Kalyanam” (Sita’s wedding) by director Bapu? That was a really well made movie.
In fact Bapu is a cartoonist/illustrationist(sp?) and all his movie scenes would be put on canvas by him before he directs the scene. One can easily see the clarity in his pictures, but then he made only telugu movies (AFAIK) and so rest of India missed out big time IMO.
If this Bapu and one you mentioned aren’t the same, then excuse me for the digress 🙂
cheers -P
for a completely kool and irreverent look at the mahabharata, check this work in (halted) progress
it’s not the Mahabharat, but Neil Gaiman wrote a treatment for an animated version of the Ramayana about 3 years ago. Too bad it never saw the light of day (Dreamworks, I’m looking at you) Wouldn’t that have been something!! (yes, I’m an unabashed Sandman, Neverwhere, and Coraline fan)
I saw the Peter Brooks version of the Mahabharat- if I recall correctly, it was a very global cast-Arjuna was played by an Italian and Bhima by an African-American (which caused some controversy).
and finally, Neeraja,mon petit, you get total props about Gambit-one of my favorite X-men of all time- the Ragin’ Cajun! I heard Josh Holloway (Sawyer) from Lost was considered for the role…………
ACK was a gr8 soucre of education about the hindu mythology . i have watched ramanand sagar’s Ramayana ( which was boring most of the times ) , so ACK looked like a better way to visualize war scenes in my mind.
how ever nowadays ACK has lost its popularity , and most of the childrens are busy watching TV , or reading other comics ( which i also luv even now ) or doing their home work.
from last ten or so years i am waiting for some one to come up with ramayana or mahabharata with good visual effects . i have watched ramayana which was produced by indian and japanese joint venture . so it has japanese style rama with his powerful and long sword . it looke gr8 and appealing . also i have heard rumours about ramayana being made by ram gopal verma or some one in bolly woood with aishwarya rai as sita .
waiting for X- Man 3 …
oops, i got it wrong- the actor playing Bhima is not African American, but African (not sure from which country). The controversy was that many people thought it was sterotyping to have a black actor play Bhima (who was often portrayed in the Mahabharat as coarse and extremely muscular (but not brainy)
Prasad–probably same guy. I’ve heard he either did it in twice or it was redubbed to Hindi, but it didn’t seem done twice. Falooda–I actually mentioned this Bapu version to Gaiman when he signed my copy of Endless Nights, b/c it always struck me as having the best of the comic book aesthetic. He said he’d heard of it and was hoping to find it. I sent him a copy of my copy, but I don’t know if he ever got it or saw it.
I’m sorry, but Aishwarya Rai would not be a good Sita. She doesn’t have the right mix of brainy and strong, nor the sasme kind of sweetness. Juhie Chawla back in the day, maybe. Actually the woman who played Jaya in Bride & Prejudice. I felt she had some talent, perhaps a little underdirected.
Apparently Mani Ratnam is already working on Mahabharata project presumably with big Khans in Bollwood.
One of the few connections I had with my grandfather in India while I was young, (and India in general) were Amar Chitra Katha books. When we called my grandparents for the semi-monthly addendum to our long distance bill, I would tell my grandfather all about the stories I had just read of Ganesha or Birbal or the rani of Jhansi. I still go back and read them once in a while.
Namrata shirodkar has played role of jaya bakshi .
the choice of heroine differs from person to person . for traditional or mythological roles like sayngita , sita , draupdi , umraav jaan etc aishwarya is considered best ( if director can pay her ;)) as she is very beautiful ( according to a lot and lot of people ) and also because her image is not controversial .( you cant have malika sheravat playing sita unless you want publicity ).
or not and whether Sita actually does posses them is a subject of debate . any way she just have to do what the director want .
speaking of bapu, i think he has done a great version of the ramayan called sampoorna ramayanam as well. you couldn’t find a copy in the local Indian video rental stores? There is probably a Telugu version there but it might lack subtitles.
Prasad/Saheli,
Yes..its the same Bapu, the Telugu artist/cartoonist. He is actually part of the duo called Bapu-Ramana. Bapu does the sketches, and Ramana does the script and dialogue.
They have made many movies – mostly social comedies similar to Hrishikesh Mukherjee/Amol Palekar films in Hindi. But much, much more visually breathtaking. In mythologicals, they have made, Sita Kalyanam (Sita’s Wedding) which received many international awards. They also made – Bala Bharatam – the story of Mahabharata, till the time the Kauravas and Pandavas grow up and start gambling 🙂 The entire cast of Bala Bharatam was child artistes, the highlight being a six-year old Sri Devi playing ‘Dussala’, the only sister of the 100 Kaurava brothers.
Now, a closer look at the post made me wonder/wince at a few expressions, because in an otherwise excellent post, they stuck out like..well.you know what I mean.
Such a stereotype, isn’t it, Neeraja? I hope this straightjacketing of India as your ‘exotic’ self has probably changed over the years. (ACK comics also have series about India’s struggle for independence.) I am sure you may have noticed how Western cultures brand Oriental and African cultures as ‘exotic, ancient, magical’, call themselves as ‘rational, scientific, modern’, and thus justifying the need for the ‘civilizing mission’.
I never knew one practices Hinduism, the way one practices Xtianity, Islam or Communism, or the legal profession. If you mean, you don’t go to temples or perform Puja at home, that does not necessarily make you a non-practicing Hindu. Millions of Hindus don’t do those things.If you stop believing in concepts like ‘Vasudhaika Kutumbakam’, the ‘Karma theory’ and so on, yes, that could make you a non-Hindu (Not a non-practicing Hindu, though).
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Oh my, Neeraja! How do you know for sure they were ‘central to the Indian culture’ at some point in time? Do you mean, if a King or a God has 2 wives, it indicates the whole culture, population practicing polygamy? By that token, polygamy would be central to all world cultures ! Child marriage, yes, it was a social evil and still is in some sections of Asian societies. But it was never a ‘tradition central to the culture’. And widow burning, AFAIK, the custom of Sati was limited to the wives of Rajputs and other warrior clans, and in majority cases, the women did it of their own will (Of course it doesn’t make it less of an evil). But my point is: None of these are related to the Hindu faith or can be termed as ‘central to the culture’. Is it the ACK comics that led you to believe this? Because I tood read them (like every one did), but never developed these misconceptions about Indian culture.
I fully agree with you on the main point you have posted about, though – the possibilities of Mahabharata in film medium. The basis for this film franchise could be not just the ACK comic, but also the ‘Chandamama’ back issues. You must’ve read Chandamama English or Tamil versions, I hope. The pictures (though less) were exquisitely drawn and the descriptions rival the best among fantasy children’s literarure any where in the world.
Chandamama not only published all Indian epics, it also published (over the years) several exciting children’s fantasy stories in serialised format – each episode ends with a major dramatic event- and we kids used to wait impatiently for the next monthly issue to hit the stands.
Your statement on using white actors for Indian mythological roles sounds interesting. In fact, a few years back, the South Indian actor Chiranjeevi tried to produce Ramayan with Hollywood collaboration. Guess who was chosen to play Rama? Steven Seagal ! Yes..Steven Seagal even came down to Hyderabad, did a schedule and posed for some photo shoots..and the the venture collapsed (only Lord Rama knows why).
Yes..any thing is better than Salman Khan.Agree with you 200% there.
Neeraja, nothing in Hinduism is ‘creedal’. Every time an epic is narrated it is questioned and reinterpreted. ACK plays the role of the first narrator; and is a great stand-in for grandmas, and the other seniors of the house from whom one heard the epics for the first time. I heard mine not learnt from an old retainer of the family. I have narrated the same epics to my children and left them to think it over. There are about a 100 standard versions of the Ramayana and maybe as amany as the Mahabharata. And for the latter there are many, many side tales some of which are very long.
How does a practicing Hindu differ from a non-practicing Hindu?
Oh..btw, just a nitpick, but its ‘Akbar the Great’ and ‘Birbal the Clever’, not, ‘Akbar the Clever’ 🙂
Just a quick note re child marriage – I don’t think it is fair to judge this by our own standards. Gandhi was 13 I believe when he got married. Sita too was around that age. This was considered normal. In many ways I belive it still is. Why not have an active sex life (specially for men who peak earlier) as determined by the hormones. It is equally cruel or absurd or abnormal (or whatever negativity we see in early marriage) that modern 20, 30 somethings do not have a steady partner. We call this independence these days and patiently wait for true love which is so easy to fall out of.
But 30 is the new 20 as I have heard said on this board and it does ring true. People seem to be maturing much, much later. Napoleon was only 20 or so by the time he became all-powerful, and the prime minister of England at the time was also in his 20’s. Unimaginable these days.
Child marriage is still practiced in the villages, but we first need to see how unhappy those people are with it before we sit in judgment of this practice. Another reason we find this shocking is because we only hear the horror stories.
re: AKC My favorite was Karna. I still have a crush! My older brother’s was Abhimanyu. He cried at the ending! They don’t spare little children the violence of warfare. But TinTin and Astrix is the best! I remember reading them while visiting Granpa, in the Coimbatore Public Library where “Silence is Strictly Enforced” and going into convulsions trying hard not to laugh out loud.
re: mahabharata, mastervk said
Bollywood is notorious for bad casting choices. Wasn’t there a guy recently trying to cast Paris Hilton as Mother Teresa. They can cast the most beautiful Bollywood doll for other parts but Draupadi should be played by a ‘dark’ actress. Nandita Das would be perfect. She can take on five husbands and get rowdy with Duryodhana.
Divya,
This is a very, very dangerous statement to make, not just because of the moral issues inherent (and for the record I do not agree with the concept of child marriages full-stop) but because you risk triggering the mother of all flame wars here on SM.
If the latter is something you are prepared to deal with, then by all means carry on.
Mahabharatha is a very good and interesting long story to be read as a kid.. The best thing is that it deals with humans, no one is above blame like in real life.. Even Yudhishtira gambles / tells lies etc.. There are many stories, the moral of which you can apply to real life situations even now..
The best I remember is the sub-story I read about Sahadeva, wisest of the Pandavas. Someone asked him how to prevent the inevitable war and bloodshed between Pandavas and Kauravas just before battle of Kurushethra.. And he seems to have replied.. 1) Make Karna the emperor 2) Shave off Draupati’s hair.. :-)) Wise words indeed..
(sigh)
Kumar: kindly get off the Edward Said high horse. If you parsed the sentence you found so objectionable, you will see there’s nothing wrong with it:
“ancient”: most AKC told stories that took place before the 20th century, lasting 100’s of years. “magical”: how else is an eight year old supposed to explain demons springing from spilled blood, turtles churning the ocean, gods who change form? “India”: I’m assuming this is okay.
For a six year old with only vague memories of the motherland, AKC did offer an exciting and yes, alternative and exotic type of association with another country. The questions I found troubling (why does Krishna have so many wives? What’s with the caste system?) followed me even after I started getting my information off of AKC. That said, I think my knowledge and association with desi culture has significantly expanded since then, which was my point: AKC was a great way to learn about both the good and bad about my history, taken with a grain of salt.
As for child-marriage, I stand by my position. My grandmother was married at 13, my great-grandmother at 10. They had to stop going to school and learn to cook and care for a household, which may have been fine for them back then, but not so good in today’s modern world. I don’t see value in a marriage where the wife is utterly dependent on her husband.
It’s nice to be thinking of the men’s sex drive–nice, but not surprising that no one is thinking about these 13 year old girls having sex with 20-something men. What are their hormones saying? Are they ready for it? I doubt it. Marriage is for adults, and if you want to define adult as anyone over 16, I may be listening. Under, and I see a child sex ring.
I completely, vehemently disagree. 20, 30 somethings are adults. If they have sexual or emotional needs, they are perfectly capable of fulfilling them like adults.
For the last year I have been working on a chapter about Phoolan Devi, who had horrific stories to tell about how the institution of child-marriage is still practiced in villages. Families desperate to get rid of their daughters are often blackmailed and harassed by local goons who threaten to rat them out to the police. The very illegality of child marriage is used against them; some girls have three or four weddings cancelled when the police show up, and are considered damaged goods. Nonetheless, someone is always willing to take a twelve year old girl. Phoolan was married and divorced by thirteen, with lots of beatings and rapes in between.
No doubt there are happy child marriages. My grandmother was devoted to my grandfather, who I adored. But if you define marriage as a union of equals, then child-marriage is an archaic abomination, created out of the belief that girls are useless for anything other than breeding and cleaning. Just because it works for some people doesn’t change the fact that, as an institution, it does women very little good.
I don’t believe in organized religion, so I do not practice any faiths or rituals, except for the nightly prayers my mom taught me. I consider myself a Hindu because I find many of the belief extremely compelling, but I have been equally moved by tenets in Buddhism, Taoism, Christianity and Islam.
“It is equally cruel or absurd or abnormal (or whatever negativity we see in early marriage) that modern 20, 30 somethings do not have a steady partner.”
there is no moral equivalence between pushing a child through a relationship that she/he can’t possibly be aware of and a matured individual’s decision to do whatever they want. The former is forced upon you (often the children do not even meet before the wedding day) and the latter is a personal choice. Now, you want to see it from their view point? In many cases it is pure greed that is driving them to this horrible practice – the desire to contain the wealth within certain families.
as for casting: both Sarita Chowdury and Indira Varma rose about the mess that was Mira Nair’s Kama Sutra. I see Roshan Seth (the father in Mississippi Masala) as a sad, older Yudhishtira. There must be a role for Naseerudin Shah, and for the divine Shabana Asmi.
Jai – you’re right. this is going to start a flame war. I started off by saying not to judge this by our own standards. I guess it fell on deaf ears.
The custom in the villages is that even if children are married, the girl lives with her own family until she begins to get her period and is considered mature. Only after that she is sent to the boy’s home. I was ready for sex at 14 and did not get any action till 23. I strongly disagree that 20, 30 and even 40 somethings are capable of finding partners. Look around you. This is not about what is theoretically possible. Our fussiness and prissiness and egos and a whole host of other factors get in the way. The village kids are not fed romantic notions like us and do not find it horrifying that they marry someone without knowing them. This has been happening for thousands of years and all of a sudden we consider this bizarre. Anyhow, wait till you reach your 40’s and you’ll probably see that arranged marriages are fine.
The kind of people who go into child marriage are those who do not have an education and are destined to sow and reap and cook and clean anyway. We can denounce this as much as we want. But it is way more important to give these people an education rather than declare their lifestyle illegal. And yes, I DO know all the ills associated with child marriage and I did address that in my last post.
Neeraja- ACKs aside, I’m sure you have read the very ambitious venture by Shashi Tharoor’s The Great Indian Novel where he skillfully superimposes the Indian history of independence over the larger template of Mahabharata..i highly recommend this brilliant book and for those who know the fractalized stories of Mahabharata and the main characters in the indian independence struggle, will read with increasingly bated breath and will apprediate just how wonderful (and appropriate) the parallels are…my favorite is the parallel between Krishna and the brilliant malayalee reluctant-politician Krishna Menon..
Rasudha-between my brother and I we have a decent collection of RinTinTin and Astrix comics..every time we go to india, we collect more..we bring them back here and let them loose on all our friends..for some reason, only the non-indians appreciate them..
Neeraja- ACKs aside, I’m sure you have read the very ambitious venture by Shashi Tharoor’s The Great Indian Novel where he skillfully superimposes the Indian history of independence over the larger template of Mahabharata..i highly recommend this brilliant book and for those who know the fractalized stories of Mahabharata and the main characters in the indian independence struggle, will read with increasingly bated breath and will apprediate just how wonderful (and appropriate) the parallels are…my favorite is the parallel between Krishna and the brilliant malayalee reluctant-politician Krishna Menon..
Rasudha-between my brother and I we have a decent collection of RinTinTin and Astrix comics..every time we go to india, we collect more..we bring them back here and let them loose on all our friends..for some reason, only the non-indians appreciate them..
Divya,
These people who are supposedly so happy – do you think that is because they wanted/chose the marriage or because they were making the best of a situation they cannot change?
Rose:
I do remember Tharoor’s book–particularly since Durodhana was made into Duryodhani, a clear parallel to Indira Ghandi, who I had been taught was a heroine. I was unclear about the modern politics coloring the story–perhaps you could explain?
Divya: Flame wars are not my goal either, but I have to say this: if hormones are your reasoning, I stand by the fact that it is incredibly easy for 20,30,40-somethings to get sex wihout marriage in any culture, particularly if he/she is one of the multitudes who does not have the “hangups” you attribute so globally. Neither the man nor woman needs to be yoked to his/her first partner for life if they don’t want to be, especially at the expense of their education and ambitions. And having sexual urges and hormone surges at 13 rarely means that you’re emotionally ready for sex.
Yes, this happened for thousands of years, but in this day and age we are fortunate to have the right to choose. Those of us who get married in our 20s, 30s or 40s (which, by the way, does include arranged marriages – not all people who have arranged marriages are teenagers) have exercised that right one way or another. The point here is that we HAVE a choice. Perhaps you’re being judgemental about the choice we made? Or perhaps you don’t appreciate that some people prefer to remain single until they know what they want, however long that takes?
Neeraja: Thank you for so eloquently expressing what I also feel about Amar Chitra Katha. Apart from a few stories my mom told me, they were my only window into the culture and I agree with 100% of what you wrote. There must be thousands of us 2nd genners scattered across the US, UK, and Canada (not to mention millions in India itself) for whom those comics were such an important part of childhood. I prize whatever is left of my once vast collection and if I have kids one day I would love to introduce them to it. In all honesty though, I would have a hard time finishing one of them today. They really are for kids.
Divya: Although I totally 100% disagree with child-marriage in today’s world, I do understand your basic gist and I think you are right to an extent. Especially in regard to the 30 and 40 somethings.
Kumar- Totally agree with your post Neerja- It is shabana azmi not asmi
Neeraja:
Indira Gandhi was no heroine. What she did to the Sikhs alone casts her as a demoness. Not only that but she (and the Congress Party) is/are directly/indirectly responsible for much of the corruption in India as well as the Punjab, Kashmir, and Assam separatist movements.
Whoah, hold on a damn minute. Considering the paucity of detailed historical records from pre-Islamic times in India, this statement should be backed up with verifiable references.
Anyway, my thoughts are as follows:
Child marriages between underage boys and girls of approximately equivalent age: Unethical and logically wrong, because they don’t have the emotional maturity for that kind of situation at that age, and this is particularly bad if they have no choice in who they are married to.
Marriages of underage girls to adult men: Still wrong, because of the difference in emotional & psychological maturity and the consequent inequality of the nature of the marital relationship. The concept of an adult man being sexually attracted to a pre-pubescent or adolescent girl is also abhorrent, regardless of how one wishes to justify or rationalise it by referring to familial or historical precedents. It is wrong, wrong, wrong, whether it happens in the present day or occurred 1000 years ago.
Ha! Speak for yourself!
And anyway, with most of the Indians you see who are socially/sexually awkward with the opposite sex, it’s because they were socialized that way, brought up to believe they would be set up with a partner and lacking the skills necessary to find their own.
Neerja and Green angel – I mentioned hormones only to show that young kids are ready for sex – if that’s the part that horrifies your modern sensibilities. As for choice, marriage is not the only choice we have. We have all kinds of choices. The villagers don’t. Most have never been beyond a 10 mile radius of where they live, most continue their parents vocation, they eat the same food all the time, etc. etc. They do have to make the best of the situation they are in. For such people marriage is one of the most important things in their lives. In any case, to me it is very, very wrong for people who are fortunate enough to be able choose, to denounce customs of people who are not. We should not take away what they have without replacing it with education, or other choices.
And I’m single for life, so I am not being judgmental about singles. I have a low tolerance level and shudder at the thought of being married for the sake of convenience or custom. If anything, I’m judgmental about married people for putting up with all kinds of stuff, but this is not important one way or the other.
In that case, how would you feel about being married off against your will? Seems really hypocritical. It’s okay for those villagers but not for you?
Neither do the so-called sophisticated and educated people of today have emotional maturity. Many make wrong choices, and then some. Every custom has its abuses, including marriage. If done right, among same-age kids, etc., it works.
Am setting off now for a computer-less long weekend but I think I’ve said what I needed to. Thanks all for not flaming worse than I thought.
Yes. That is my whole point. Sorry I’m not articulate enough. I do have choices they dont. They need education and jobs more than an upheaval of their customs. We cannot apply the same logic universally.
heh heh. welcome to the mutiny, neeraja. 🙂
mine too, and with all the same qualifications that you give re: hazy timelines &c. it’s really unfortunate that my dad gave away all of the large collection of ACKs that my brother and I had to a family friend for their kid. hope he enjoyed them.
the equivalent for me of your shakespeare book was “Derrida for Beginners” (excerpts here) — only that i was 26 and in graduate school, not 10 and maxing out my library allowance. 😉
I’m sorry, but this still doesn’t make sense to me. I understand that poverty and lack of education are problems…but how does getting married help with any of this? It doesn’t, it just gives them one more burden to deal with. In fact, for the girls especially, it makes it even less likely that they will have any other opportunities.
Child marriage? Immoral and thankfully illegal. Uncommon? No. Not even during the last 50 years. …but 22-year-old Jerry [Lee Lewis] had brought his wife Myra along, and the British press got wind of the fact [May 1958] that Myra was only 13. Child marriage is a serious problem in India and not only in Rajasthan and UP but also in one large city in the South.
Shashi Tharoor’s “Great Indian…” is a laboured attempt to force the story of 20th century India’s struggle(s) for independence into a straitjacket made out of the Mahabharata and ends up chopping out all the rough edges from both stories. As these are two very different plots Tharoor is busy trying to reconcile them, and messes up his plot – the third story. The book turns flat (no pun) halfway and the endless ribbing of the character of Bhima stops being funny. His other book set in the Bombay movie industry is much better.
Neeraja, you say your nightly prayers? Thank you for sharing something so deeply personal. For the longest time I remember saying one prayer, to Ganesh, my mother taught me, whichever temple I visited. So that’s one way. The term religion – derived from conformity, sanction, institutionalised set of beliefs and practices – does not describe Hinduism correctly.
One last comment. The idea is not to defend child marriage. The above quote can just as easily be re-worded to say poverty and illiteracy are a serious problem. It’s easy to pass judgment against “primitive” customs, but passing laws against them does not help, has not helped, and will not help. The so called fee and independent folk were not simply declared free and independant by passing some law. They got an education. This is not meant to be some simplistic pro-child marriage stance. Just asking not to denounce their customs from our ivory towers.
thank you.
it’s tough to describe the misfitted flattery i felt when we’d first unload from the jeep and walk through the gate of my father’s home, one hour outside of Udaipur and be greeted by my cousin’s 12 year-old wife who would quickly pull her sari overhead and touch my feet. i was 15.
most all of my first cousins had “child marriages” — all before age 16 — some at 5, 6, 7 and 10.
from my own experience, Divya’s statement sounds about right. given the landscape and means of life, there really isn’t that much time, between herding the cattle to the khet where they graze, making one of three seasonal sabzis and farming what they can off the land, to do much else.
but marriage is marriage is marriage is …marriage? on my last visit i was saddened to hear that this very same girl, now a woman, who greeted me with such reverence so many years ago, was being beaten by her hub. VERY Ike & Tina (NOT). why? he wouldn’t say. me mentioned being possessed and doing things that are truly “out of character” for him.
i also found out he’d been scootering off to Udaipur and hanging out with Sadus, smoking weed and getting loaded.
maybe he wasn’t ready for marriage. maybe it just wasn’t “his thing” and that the alliance forged from the marriage of the two wasn’t meant to be. why did he do what he did, i don’t know.
well, she’s gone back to her parents until my dipshit cousins gets his shit straight (i’m not sympathetic towards his actions, but to understanding his reasons behing why he did this).
so yea, they’re “separated” after a few beatdowns and several rounds of ammo. (limited divorce lawyer network in the village).
my other cousins are quite happy in their marriages.
child marriages are not a uniform atrocity in my opinion. when it works it works well.
like vanilla and peas, it’s just not for everyone.
it’s a funny thing about those ACKs–I was born/brought up in the US and loved reading them whenever I went to India or when we could get copies sent over here from amiable aunties and uncles. They would smile genially at my repeated requests for Issue # whatever so I could complete my Birbal collection or other miniseries. Granted that there are some very un-PC things about them, I still think they are a good first glimpse into vast portions of SA mythology and history. They were a starting point for me- my parents also filled in a lot through storytelling and ‘history lessons’. (I also got every new copy of the Bournvita quiz book- so I could have been the geography bee winner if we had that in my day).
Anyways, I am currently married to a desi who moved to the US for college and beyond. He never read ACKs–only Tintin and Asterix (Asterii?)He said he learned so much about Indian history/mythology in school that he didn’t want to read it in his spare time.
Just remember: anything is better than Salman Khan.
Thank you, Thank you !!!!!!!!!!! Finally people are seeing past the bald head
For those of you interested in filling in the holes in your ACK collection. Try: http://www.desiknowledge.com/
Funny how a post about comic books gets into some flames about child marriages, so back to the comics:
My favorite was the one about Parashuram, Vishnu’s incarnation. I remember how violent the story is and how the comic never avoided depicting it. When Parashuram’s rishi father demands that Parashuram cut off his mother’s head, you see our hero a few frames later carrying a head from which blood drips! Wow, this was so much more vivid than the Dr. Strange and Green Lantern books I was equally addicted to. I mean — get this! — there’s the good guy holding his mom’s bloody head, and it’s a comic book. Talk about subversive.
The irony was that my parents loved me reading about Parashuram because they could then remind me of how obediently he listened to his parents. This often happened after they would check on the state of my (often messy) room — often minutes before some guests were expected.
I’d always respond by snarkily saying that if they REALLY wanted me to be like him, they should buy me a big cleaver.
Duh… make all of the white folks Kauravas… topped off by a completely unhinged Christopher Walken as Duryodana…
Branch Dravidian–your handle brought back memories of Heaven’s Gate, and the mass suicide with everyone wearing the same tennis shoes…
Loved ACK.. thought they were great to learn a touch of the Ramayana/Mahabharata…also loved reading Tinkle in India…
Neeraja writes: >>I consider myself a Hindu because I find many of the belief extremely compelling, but I have been equally moved by tenets in Buddhism, Taoism, Christianity and Islam.
The correct statement is: “I consider myself Hindu because I have been equally moved by tenets in Buddhism, Taoism, Christianity and Islam.”
Only a Hindu has the freedom to explore other methods and make these statements unflinchingly.
A muslim who says: “I consider myself Muslim because I have been equally moved by tenets in Buddhism, Taoism, Christianity and Hinduism” is either lying or going to die very soon. No Buddhist ever says: “I consider myself Buddhist because I have been equally moved by tenets in Hinduism Taosim Christianity and Islam“.
M. Nam