For my 16th birthday, we had a sheet cake from Sam’s Club, and maybe a couple of balloons. It was small with just family, and a few of my school friends. It wasn’t elaborate, but in those days, we didn’t have MTV to show us how ‘the others’ celebrate their Sweet 16. Maybe that’s why I have a sick, sick obsession with watching MTV’s reality TV show Sweet 16, where in the span of a half an hour segment you see thousands and thousands of dollars being thrown down for a measly birthday. From the SM news tab, we’ve now learned desi teen girls haven’t missed the wrath of this reality TV show either.
…Dr. Srinivasa Rao Kothapalli, a prominent cardiologist in Beaumont, Tex., is more than willing to relinquish his checkbook. His daughter Priya turned 16 earlier this month, and she is in the throes of planning a joint birthday-graduation party with her elder sister, Divya, 18. “If you can afford to have a grand celebration, then why not,” said Dr. Kothapalli, who immigrated to the United States from India in the mid-1980’s. “It’s the American way. You work hard and you play hard.”Their Bollywood-themed party for 500 guests will be held in the family’s backyard — all 4Å“ acres, behind the 10,000-square-foot house. The Format, their favorite band, will perform. And they will make their grand entrance on litters, during an elaborate procession led by elephants…”We both want to lose three pounds,” said Priya, who received a Mercedes convertible and an assortment of diamond jewelry for her birthday. Her sister’s graduation gift package included a Bentley, diamonds and two homes in India. [link]
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p>Can you believe this ridiculous consumption? Elephants, diamonds, Bentleys and homes? If this is what they got for their Sweet 16/18, can you imagine the weddings? I can’t wait till the show airs, which unfortunately, has no links up yet on MTV-but I’m sure the mutineers will keep us posted. So let’s see, there were first those two desi girls that secretly partied, Kaavya gets half a million to write a ‘plagiarized’ book before turning 17, and now, we have these girls. Sigh. Such a contrast from the girls, girls, girls earlier this month.
Priya added, “It’s pathetic when people suck up.” Still, dealing with sycophantic classmates and a bit of teasing is a small price to pay for the spotlight. “We both love attention–that’s one of our main motives for having the party,” Divya said. “The more attention the better.” [link]
At least I have something in common with the girls from Sweet 16…I’m kidding. KIDDING. 
Someone please address issues like these;
Do a search and you’ll find multiple past post on SM on this and other serious issues. And send this article in to the tips@sepiamutiny, or put it in the “News” tab for people to read.
Let me clarify my statement in no. 48. The prospect of someone intelligent and sensitive in India reading some of the posts on this thread fills me, as an NRI, with embarrassment.
this applies to more than 90% [very conservative here, i would think it is more like 99%].
you are generalizing too. no matter how you see, the nri lifestyle and the choices nris can make, as well as even the options nris have are orders of magnitude different. applies to a majority of nris.
nris who have lived for a while in india will recognize that i could argue the reverse—most indians who haven’t travelled abroad cannot even imagine many of the things nris take for granted.
this thread. think honestly.
of course, this is a reason for nris to hate middle class indians. actually the real reason nris should hate indians is not the above—but that many indians are not a minority where they live, they don’t have to be more good than good, and don’t have to watch their backs. but we were talking abt reasons indians hate nris.
there is another point here though. i may be wrong in several cases, but most nris choose to be away from their family (they could potentially go back to india, but they don’t—because it will lead to a drastic economic fall). most indians who don’t get the opportunity to travel abroad have their choice forced on them by circumstance. but i don’t intend to defend this particular line.
also while domestic help is available in india, it is really not much harder in NA with all the machines present. and yes, you are right, in several cases domestic help is exploitative. in several other cases, they are “unionized” (they have associations with some clout) so it is not a reason to be disgusted at middle class india—just enough reason to hate and wince at them.
trust me, the “simple” life of most nris is way beyond means for 90% of indians.
but we have got back to the beginning. the point is: the prism you use to see these kids is exactly what many indians use to see nris. right or wrong? who cares. this is the why of it.
also, deepa i am taking care to not mention you in particular. i don’t intend to, this thread is not an attack on you.
hey, thanks for the cake vote dq!
Byteword (53#)
Indians in India hate NRIs for same reason that poor cousins hate rich cousins
Regards
PS Ofcourse this is not to say that every Indian (living in India)hates NRIs. I do not (now if only someone will sponsor me :-))
This point I have never had a disagreement with. What I am saying I don’t like how even privileged Indians feel free to endow all NRI’s with loathesome qualities. Nor do they stop to consider in what ways the grass is greener on their side of the fence.
As a person firmly planted in the bourgeoisie, I had previously refrained from mentioning that there are plenty of NRI’s struggling hard materially (as well as emotionally/in terms of social support), to whom application of these stereotypes is REALLY unfair.
Come now, your tit-for-tat accusation of “you’re generalizing too” is pretty meaningless. You say “[All] NRI’s this” and “[All] NRI’s that” and those are generalizations. Whereas, as for my point a, no Indian can possibly observe [all] NRI’s to formulate their stereotypes, so yes of course they are observing some NRI’s and applying their conclusions to all NRI’s. As for point b, you’ll notice I said “often” not “always.”
Anyhow…I do know that many NRI’s enjoy great privileges (monetary and in terms of choices/opportunities). I think we all know and appreciate that. But I question the right of every Indian to assume that every NRI unilaterally enjoys privileges they don’t (with no drawbacks whatsoever).
And that’s pretty much it. 🙂 I don’t need another explanation of how privileged NRI’s are, I get it, and I did before this discussion. That was never the point I was disputing.
of course.
what is to say that the globe-trotting indians dont get the same treatment? 🙂
not every, i didn’t mean it either. just a majority in both categories.
well, point taken. 🙂
Saheli:
So, if you knew this family and they invited you to this lavish 16th, you’d decline their invitation?
And isn’t this lavishness simply a manifestation of society continually pushing us to improve and be better? i.e improving your financial situation, getting a higher education, getting a better job, getting a better house, getting a better car, having a better body, having a better party.. etc. We all do it to a certain extent, it’s just that these folks have reached a different level than most of us and this is the only way they think they can make themselves ‘better’. It’s our inherent desire to somehow be superior because mediocrity and being average is scorned.
So while I often used to drop in on Sepia Mutiny, I’ve only started reading regularly in the past few months, and I’ve noticed a rather disturbing trend in the comments when it comes to stories about women, in the following threads:
MTV Desi Karnik the Magnificent How Kaavya Viswanathan… Innocent, Until Proven Otherwise
In each of these threads’ comments section, in addition to lampooning the individuals involved, there’s been a consistent theme of representation. At some point or another “the community” comes up, and the responsibility of representing the community well falls on their shoulders. There’s an implication that through their actions they’ve brought shame upon “the community.”
Two of these threads (MTV Desi and Karnik) have degenerated into who’s hotter, who’s got nice legs, who’s got a nice ass, etc.
The representation argument hasn’t come into this thread yet, but it’s come close.
I don’t recall coming across any posts in which men are lampooned as viciously as some readers have lampooned these women, and I certainly don’t recall any men being burdened with the responsibility of representing “the community,” “the brown,” “browns,” South Asians, “Desis,” whatever. But maybe I haven’t been reading closely enough, or maybe my memory is selective. I’d love to be proven wrong.
They’re just rich people being rich people, just like kids being kids, boffins being boffins, nerds being nerds etc
and of course,
there is always a catch, i agree. i pointed out one i think is most significant in my post too.
Sorry, found what I was looking for: “Father of the B-2 Arrested”
Why didn’t anyone accuse him of damaging the reputation of the community? Or, for that matter, why didn’t anyone mention what a wonderfully shaped nose he has?
Hee, bytewords, I do agree that we agree on all the truly important points of our discussion 🙂 handshake
Vivekan:
Nope, you’re basically right (though I believe there are some posts about desi businessmen/scientists having committed fraud and there are associated comments about representation – but they are outnumbered by the posts about women, and the posts about women tend to get more personal/vicious – ugly comments about their looks, sex life, etc.).
…this is not to say that the phenomenon stems from the Head Mutineers. It is an emergent quality of the site visitors’ discussions.
Absolutely. I was thinking about whether I should say that and decided not to, but since you did, knock knock
Oh god …I am insanely jealous! Admit it guys 😉
Madurai Vivekan,
The majority of internet users are men surfing for porn. They tend to be insensetive. Your observations may be accurate but I think if you visit other sites both smaller and larger you will see comments that are on average a lot worse. Most societies hold women to “higher standards” than men. It isn’t right but your interpretation of what is happening in the comment threads may just be a reflection of this reality.
some of the commenters have pointed out what elicited my disgust. if i perceived that the conspicious consumption was driven by epicurean appreciation i would be less concerned. i do not begrudge someone who spends hundreds of dollars at the french laundry, that shit be good. even if there is suffering in the world at least the money is going toward genuine first order pleasure on on the part of the person dishing out the dollars. on the other hand, when people go to an expensive eatery to eat expensively, rather than to eat expensive (ergo, good) food, i think that’s unseemly.
of course people want to be the top of the heap, and we all want to better ourselves and emphasize our strengths and talents. we are social animals, and a byproduct of this tendency are the ridiculous “fads” and “fashions” which do nothing but signal how “cool” we are to the rest of the world. when the imbalance between spending so much on “cool” where you don’t even care about or take enjoyment from the first order item which you spend money on and the abject poverty and suffering in the world becomes extreme enough i think it is warranted that some level of ‘judgement’ should be mooted. otherwise we become mired in a spiral of garishness, and genuine class is replaced by a class system.
perhaps some here who criticize would engage in the same sort of bestial animal gorging on material “comforts” if given the opportunity. so what? to whom much is given much is expected, and the expectation is driven ultimately by the way other human beings expect you behave. if we abdicate the responsibility we have we’ll be saturated by a swarm of paris hiltons.
I think I’m the poorest here… I go to community college… 🙂
Razeeb (68#)
Never knew that you will be a closet (?) epicurist 😉
What about Dionysus ?
Regards
Right so, spending obscene amounts of money on trifles is OK only if you keep it to yourself? That makes no sense.
I’m certainly not a big spender, moderation in all facets of life is my motto, I just think that rich people have been doing shit like this for aeons.
razib:
So you think these girls won’t derive first order pleasure from their diamonds, bentleys, houses in India and bollywood themed parties?
Bengali (71#)
First Define Moderation
Second Define Rich.
Regards
Gaurav:
In any given society participating in activities and pursuits that majority have access to/can afford.
The top 10% wealthiest in a society. That is, people who can afford things that a large majority can’t.
But yes, I get your point – moderate and rich are relative terms and different in various countries. But within ONE country I think it is quite similar. If you’re rich in New York, you’re rich in LA.
Bengali (74#)
Finally we agree on something.
Also, while I think the whole thing in stupid, the level to which I get worked up depends on my mood. At present I am at my nicest, and hence I just dismiss them.
Regards
oh handshake. 🙂 see we agree on that too.
bengali,
1) is english your first language or not?
2) So you think these girls won’t derive first order pleasure from their diamonds, bentleys, houses in India and bollywood themed parties?
for something like diamonds i hold that the primary value is in that the item itself is rare, expensive and a status symbol. you can’t use diamond as a masturbatory tool (it is too hard, it would cause abrasions) and nor can you eat them. the glittery look is a first order pleasure, but i think it only goes so far. some of the same applies to bentleys and houses in india (i assume they won’t spend much time at these houses, it is just cool to have houses).
Hmmm…ahem, hmmm….
I leave for a couple of hours and this is what the thread has gone too…I’m going to bed, to dream about the Sweet 16 I could have had…
Razeeb (77#)
In your scheme of things where is the place for cubism.
Regards
Abhi
Maybe it’s because it’s five thirty in the morning and I’m cranky but huh? How did “surfing for porn” get equated with “insensitive”? I surf for porn – and I don’t think that makes me either “insensitive” or want to hold women to some kind of ridiculous cultural ideal. I also, incidentally, surf for things other than porn, as I assume most men on this forum do as well… I doubt they all come to this site fresh from another hard day of smut-searching to bandy about their now insensitive views on gender.
I think your comment lets men off too easy. Let’s not let misogynist men off the hook by calling them all “insensitive” or “dorks” or “playahs” or whatever else cutesie term we have to gloss over these very real issues of misogyny that exist in many communities – and let’s step up – especially in ours. Anyway while “most societies” may have unequal gender expectations (although I’ve yet to see one that expresses theirs with such charming and articulate frequency), Madurai Vivekan brings up a valid point – and one that we can’t get around by sighing “that’s just the way things are.” What’s the point of this entire discussion board then?
Regarding conspicuous displays of Indian consumption, especially in the media:
Most of the more successful Indian television serials (esp. the “Saas-Bahu” type), along with most films by Karan Johar, show lifestyles by “indigenous” Indians on a truly mind-bogglingly ostentatious scale. In some cases they portray people essentially living in palaces and dressed like princesses. They may sometimes have an aspirational note, but the standard of wealth being displayed is far beyond the capacity of the majority of Indians.
It’s not just an accusation which can be levelled by jealous types at NRIs.
What about a diamond dildo? That would be first and second order pleasure in one convenient package.
Madurai you have some interesting points. Two main ones I think – how men are not objectified and how men are not deemed to be representatives of the community when they do something wrong.
About the sex one, this has been mentioned before. Brownfrown is also right in that there is a widespread misogyny which is excused as ‘the way it is’. However I would like to defend comments I know I have made about girls’ looks. I don’t see anything inherently wrong with that. Should I? I have never been vulgar nor lewd but if there was a hypothetical discussion about a presenter’s legs, as you mention Madurai, I can’t see any objections. Perhaps it is my, and other guys’, unsophisticated way of appreciating someone’s looks. I do see girls talking about hotness of guys etc. Surely it’s all natural?
I think your statement about men not being burdened with the responsibility of representing “the community” holds more water. I feel uncomfortable when ANY person is thought of as representing the Asian/South Asian community, good or bad. I don’t care how small a community is, if I was a Mongolian lesbian Ashkenazi Jew and I got famous I wouldn’t want to keep thinking “ooh I better behave as I’m the first celebrity Mongolian lesbian Ashkenazi Jew, I don’t want to bring shame on the community.”
Weirdly enough, I’ve got three emails about my party already, it shows how many randoms read this. As for the person who emailed saying they’d bring American vegans, I’m sorry – R.O.A.R. – NO VEGANS ALLOWED.
Good point Jai. Another reason why Karan Johar must die.
I am the angel of death. The hour of purification is near.
I love this show. The girls (and boys, though I remember seeing only one show on a boy’s birthday) in this show are extremely spoiled and just plain mean. I actually dont have a problem with the ostentatiousness of the parties. I have a bigger problem with the attititude of the 16 year olds.
42–Do cardiologists make that much bank?
Rich papa–is an interventional cardiologist… when you live in the middle of NOWHERE (aka Beaumont TX) you can make a sh*tload more than the normal cities…but I think he has some old money hidden somewhere…Bentleys, houses in India, damn…
It’s going to be intersting to watch…it’s also going to be sad becasue they are going to have trouble integrating into the ‘real world’…aka outta daddy’s purse.
Here is that TIME article
OMFG. I think I just threw up a little in my mouth. No… wait… nevermind… yeah, that is vomit. Now please excuse me while I make sure the TIVO is set to record.
If and when I do remember my bday, I celebrate with a Hostess Lemon Cupcake with a single candle on top. Of course, I’m being fed the delicious confection by four half-nekkid chicks in the hot tub of my Rolls Royce conversion. And no, you can’t have none.
Cardiologists can make stacks, whether in the States or India. The Escorts docs in Delhi make obscene amounts. It’s just frikking competitive wherever you are. Interventional radiology is going to muscle in on much of their territory too. What do you do chick pea? I’m not sure if I already knew this and forgot or if I don’t know. Can you lend me a Bentley?
Are large parties like this part of Texas culture? (or a part of a part of Texas culture?). Is this a perfect storm of India and America and southern American, er, values?
I found pics the other day of my sweet 16: geeky me and about eight other friends (all non-desi, it’s flyover, right?) in saris posed around a sheet cake. Sad, but true. Actually, I ought to post some of the pictures: they are a hilarious, touching mixture of early eighties clunk-clunk sectional sofas and VCRs, Iowa girls with feathered hair and freckled, sun-kissed, skin in saris, and me next to a sheet cake from Hy Vee! Woo hoo. I am a pioneer, folks.
Sorry.
It bothers me that the parents of these kids say that any rational parent who could afford it would love to throw parties like these for their kids (paraphrasing). It bothers me because…well, because it might be true, and also because I immediately start to wonder if my parents (regular middleclass family) would do the same, and if I would act the same way as these girls?
I’d like to think I wouldn’t, that my regular average-Jane upbringing has me planting my feet firmly on the ground. I’d like to think that being born rich does not equate being shallow and vapid and spoiled (and to be sure, not everyone who is rich is all of the above). But in the celebrity-obssessed world today, everyone we hear about (Paris Hilton and Co.) seem to be just so.
It also bugs me that they justify these extravagances with the ‘Work hard, party harder’ angle. It’s the parents who’ve been working hard. It’s the parents who’ve been raking in the dough. Maybe this is just some weird self-standing rich girl vs. average girl scorn/bitterness/sense of imbalance playing in here, I don’t know. It’s just sad to see them all up-there when they really had nothing to do with the hard work that got them all their stuff. (I realise that’s totally irrational, and that it’s up to the parents to raise their kids in a certain way.)
And people say gultis are cheap.
But seriously, I think this is more to do with Texas rather than the NRI aspect being discussed here. You know, “When in Rome do as the Romans do”.
HaHa. Folks at work just asked me if I know them or if they are related. I told them, not that I know of, but from the Rao in the name its very likely and anyway all Indian people are related if you try hard enough 😉
Now, this guy in the next office wants her number, the 18year old’s. He doesnt want to get in trouble with the law.
All this is too unreal and funny at so many levels.
Can your monkey minions dig that number up?
razib,
though, i understand & agree w/ your point…but i think one can have true appreciation for something like jewelry or cars…i mean they’re all status symbols but you can’t say the only expensive things that can give people true pleasure are food & drink….
it depends on the person….when i can afford to buy an expensive pair of shoes, i do….it is a luxury item, but a luxury that i enjoy 🙂
Come on people – Maybe the older one (whose graduation having the graduation party) got into a really great college? Ha!
Wow. I wonder if the sisters will look back on this with embarassment?
I don’t think we can boil this down to an nri vs. indian thing. In fact Indians (from India) can actually teach the world a thing or two about conspicuous consumption. All while not knowing what the hell they’re even consuming. In the richest villages of punjab you will find chandeliers hanging from trees. And I even met one wealthy indian who proudly told me that their family imports spaghetti sauce (and other junk) from America on a regular basis. and then there are the weddings . . . .
Wow, I didn’t even have a sweet sixteenth birthday party. It’s not a common practice around here anyway.
bongbreaker:
IR will invade onto I Card territory… just like derm/plastics are now crashing..along with ENT.. it’s kinda a blur….
all my friends are telling me to move to North Dakota (SM territory) for 2 years, make BANK..and then play in style…
Um.. No. ;)….my future progeny will have the same party I had… a baskin robbins ice cream cake, mylar balloons, pizza, and friends hanging out.. simple…
what happened to the truly simple life?
god help those gals.
You mean the one with Paris Hilton and Nicole Richie, right?
no, that was the truly idiotic life 😉
if parvenu behavior were confined to one state, the country would be a much more pleasant place, if also more difficult to mock.
nothing to do with texas. you can find the same behavior among the nouveau-riche (of all ethnicities) around the country, or i daresay around the world.
I remember where I was on my 16th – had some cake and then went up to my room to study for the advanced calculus exam 2 years before I should have been taking it. Can you add this story to your “why Indian kids are so smart” collection? Just keeding! Well, not about the studying part. Sigh. All those years spent nerding it up that I can’t take back…………. I’m with Taz – off to dream about what could’ve been.
MV
You are quite right in your observation. Women are held up to a higher level of scrutiny – and comments about their appearance are added in, even when it’s not relevant. I hope that at least on this forum, we call it out when we see it happening.
By the way, I think this show airs next Wednesday! I’ll probably watch it, along with America’sNextTopModel but sometimes I worry about the tweenies who watch such shows and can’t see the irony or how ridiculous some of the demands are. Actually, I worry about kids watching most reality shows these days – unless they have a parent to discuss it with them after. We didn’t grow up with reality shows, so we know that in real life, it’s not about “doing what you gotta do, everyone else be damned” or “anything to be the last man standing”. We know that you have to compromise, and that most relationships are long-term. We also know that the cute pet names for other girls like “whore” are loaded terms that aren’t so cute. And we know we actually have to work to get all the shiny shit celebrities are wearing (we know we don’t want or need 99% of that junk). I wonder if the kids these days know this? Or maybe I’m just falling into that trap of “In my day, we walked 8 miles to school in the snow…..” legend that every prior gen talks about.