Not since that hottie Natalie Portman has a freshman at Yale an ivy-league freshman created this much buzz. Meet 27-year-old former Taliban spokesperson Sayed Rahmatullah Hashemi:
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The Before and After pictures (via the NY Times) |
The University of Yale has a freshman who is thankful to have landed up in the prestigious institution rather than the Guantanamo Bay prison.
Sayed Rahmatullah Hashemi, a former Taliban spokesperson, who has the dubious distinction of having come in contact with terror mastermind Osama bin Laden has joined a non-degree course, which includes a class on terrorism… Turned away initially from a Taliban office in Kandahar, Hashemi had offered his skills as a computer operator because of his “high proficiency in English”, the New York Times quoted the freshman as saying.
But later, adding a couple of years to his age, he was accepted and became a part of the hardline Islamic regime that also brought him in contact with 9/11 mastermind Laden.
“I saw bin Laden after he was brought to Kandahar in 1997,” Rahmatullah told the Times.
Hashemi fled Afghanistan for Pakistan after the September 11 bombings. [Link]
Hashemi has had a brief flash of fame once before. He appeared in Michael Moore’s film Fahrenheit 9/11:
As the chief spokes-terrorist for the Taliban, Hashemi traveled extensively throughout Europe and the United States. While speaking at the Atlantic Council in 2001, Hashemi was confronted with a woman who detailed the horrors facing the women of Afghanistan at the hands of the Taliban. He dismissed her as if she were an insolent child and announced to the woman: “I’m really sorry for your husband. He might have a very difficult time with you. Hashemi’s disgusting comments were immortalized in Michael Moore’s “Fahrenheit 911…” [Link]
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p>Over a week ago the New York Times did a fantastic 12-page in-depth story on Hashemi (a must read article).
His room was more than he could afford, but he had his hands full with his classes: ENGL 114, Reading and Writing Argument, with Prof. Deborah Tenney; and PLSC 114, Introduction to Political Philosophy, with Prof. Peter Stillman. He got a pair of B’s, and B+’s on papers. (“B positives” he thought they were called.) Because his official education ended in the fourth grade, the marks eased some of his anxiety about passing muster at Yale. He spoke English well, but it was still his fourth language after Pashto, Urdu and Persian and a headache to write even for natives. What he had to learn initially was how to learn. You didn’t have to read everything the professors assigned, but you had to pay close attention to the closing minutes of class, when they recapped material likely to appear on the exam. People thought he was kidding when he asked what the difference was between a test and quiz. Dude, you’re a student at Yale, and you don’t know the difference between a test and a quiz?…He did not like to dwell on the past, much less advertise it. To avoid alarming eavesdroppers, he referred to his former compatriots as “the Tangoes.” But sometimes the past had a way of finding him…
So rather than simply memorize the Koran all day every day, things at Yale would be a bit different.
As you can imagine, there are a LOT of people not happy that a “terrorist” has gotten admission to Yale:
Never has an article made me blink with astonishment as much as when I read in yesterday’s New York Times magazine that Sayed Rahmatullah Hashemi, former ambassador-at-large for the Taliban, is now studying at Yale on a U.S. student visa. This is taking the obsession that U.S. universities have with promoting diversity a bit too far.
Something is very wrong at our elite universities. Last week Larry Summers resigned as president of Harvard when it became clear he would lose a no-confidence vote held by politically correct faculty members furious at his efforts to allow ROTC on campus, his opposition to a drive to have Harvard divest itself of corporate investments in Israel, and his efforts to make professors work harder. Now Yale is giving a first-class education to an erstwhile high official in one of the most evil regimes of the latter half of the 20th century–the government that harbored the terrorists who attacked America on Sept. 11, 2001…In the spring of 2001, I was one of several writers at The Wall Street Journal who interviewed Mr. Rahmatullah at our offices across the street from the World Trade Center…
As for Osama bin Laden, Mr. Rahmatullah called the Saudi fugitive a “guest” of his government and said it hadn’t been proved that bin Laden was linked to any terrorist acts, despite his indictment in the U.S. for planning the 1998 bombings of the U.S. embassies in Kenya and Tanzania. [Link]
I think you got to give the guy a break. Sometimes people don’t appreciate how thoroughly one can be brainwashed. Maybe after having tasted freedom and opportunity in America it will change his perspective and he will return to Afghanistan someday to help improve society there. You have to hope at least. By the way, this was my favorite part of the Times article:
Over the next three weeks, [Mountaineer, cameraman, and filmmaker Mike] Hoover and Rahmatullah traveled around Taliban-controlled Afghanistan and formed a deep friendship. One night, a week or so into the trip, Hoover was sitting on the floor of the foreign office guest house in Kandahar, drinking tea as Rahmatullah and some other Taliban peeled potatoes and onions. Rahmatullah asked him a question.
“Do you believe people are related to dogs?”
Dogs are not favored in Afghan society; the question dared him to contradict common sense.
“Yes,” Hoover said.
The Taliban all laughed in amazement.
“How can you possibly believe that? We are so different.”
“You see only differences. I see similarities.”
“Similarities! Like what?”
Hoover wanted his first example to be an intellectual bunker buster, so he thought carefully.
“Bilateral symmetry,” he said. The laughter stopped, which pleased him.
“What does that mean?”
“It means dogs have eyes on either side of their nose, just like humans. Dogs have two nostrils, just like humans. They have two lungs. They have toenails. They have a heart in the center of their chest. Dog blood and human blood are indistinguishable.”
Recalling the exchange not long ago, Hoover said: “Now you could hear a pin drop — and it was a dirt floor. They were starting to get uneasy. There was a dog right outside. It was scraggly and covered with sores; I think the appropriate word for it would be ‘cur.’ When I finished laying out how they might be genetically related to the cur outside, they went off and started talking among themselves very intently. What they were discussing and what they wanted to understand was if what I was saying was true, would it fit within the teachings of the Koran. After a long time they came to the conclusion that it would…” [Link]
I thought Natalie Portman was @ Haravrd.
“D-oh”
Just out of interest, are Afghanis considered to be ‘desi’?
Wait I’m confused. If he was part of the Taliban once why is the FBI/CIA/US Govt all over this guy?
“He got a pair of BÂ’s, and B+Â’s on papers. (“B positives” he thought they were called.) Because his official education ended in the fourth grade, the marks eased some of his anxiety about passing muster at Yale.”
I thought nobody gets a bad grade @ Yale**. You know the gentlemen C, and grade inflation at cough some of the Ivy-Leagues.
I’ll have to look at his transcripts carefully as upper classman – what courses is he enrolling in future – Afghani basket weaving or advanced fluid dynamics
** Please do not hate me, Yalies.
Glad you ask. See our FAQ 🙂
George W.Bush get into Yale, with a sat score 0f 1205. So I guess Yale is the laughing stock of the Ivy league
Although Abhi has already answered this question, but that wont stop me from chiming in with some more useless data and analysis:-)
According to CIA fact book, Afghani population is 42% Pashtun and 2% Baloch. Thats almost half of Afghani population. Now since ALL of pakistan is considered “desi”, which has both Pashtun (such as in and around Peshawar) and Baloch (around city of Quetta) populations in it, we have to include Afghanistan in “desi” (well atleast the above mentioned half population)
“I think you got to give the guy a break. Sometimes people donÂ’t appreciate how thoroughly one can be brainwashed”
Is this Darwinism at work ??
Regards
How true. I know SAARC is bogus, but they really ought to allow Afghanistan to join.
Or more simply, a desi is someone who loves three things: – Doctors – Family – Curry
😉
Kush – Bush graduated with a C average back in the day, and Bs are pretty common now. As for Bush, back then being a legacy counted for a lot more than it does today …
Glad you ask. See our FAQ 🙂
i didn’t know there was one here! kewlness!
Sayed Rahmatullah Hashemi what a shame the lad’s in with the wrong crowd. he’s kinda a hottie.
Jodie Foster was a Yale person, I think.
Jodie Foster was a Yale person, I think.
didn’t know that. she’s cool!
had blogged about this a few days ago…
http://sibin.blogspot.com/2006/02/taliban-freshman.html
Sayed Rahmatullah Hashemi is not on the Yale Facebook. As such, I refuse to believe his existence. Period.
…. damn, I take that back. He is. Now I need to stop the urge to add him to my friends list and fill up his walls with crap like “Heyy.. did not see you at the Delta Tau Delta kegger last friday dude.” Gah!
The NY Times write up was amazing. The guy’s obviously very intelligent, and has been through a lot. Did the best he could for himself under the Taliban regime, and does not seem to have directly harmed anyone (at least based on the limited info we have). It’s amazing how talent can rise even in the worst of circumstances. With a 4th grade education, he is getting B+ grades on papers at an ivy league. I think Yale did the right thing in taking him. Let’s hope he behaves himself from now on and goes on to help himself, his family, and his country (although I bet he’ll hook up with a gori and stay here).
According to CIA fact book, Afghani population is 42% Pashtun and 2% Baloch. Thats almost half of Afghani population. Now since ALL of pakistan is considered “desi”, which has both Pashtun (such as in and around Peshawar) and Baloch (around city of Quetta) populations in it, we have to include Afghanistan in “desi” (well atleast the above mentioned half population)
According to DIA fact booc, Tajikstan’s population is 85% tajik and 10% Persian Thats almost all of tajik population. Now since ALL of Afghanistan is considered “desi”, which has both Tajik (such as in areas north to Kabul) and Persian(around city of Herat) populations in it, we have to include Tajikstan in “desi” (well atleast the above mentioned 95% population). Same way Persia too has common language gruop and other South Indian Country. The have Blouch and Pashtun among them so Iran should be considered Desi.
Why was my post removed?
And yet, don’t they deny or revoke your college admission after a drug conviction? Isn’t it on the FAFSA application? Which is also part of “falling in with the wrong crowd” and often due to “irresistible circumstances.”
His comment in the Farenheit 9/11 documentary is one thing that really stuck in my head after watching the movie. Ugh.
You violated our comment policy:
With all due respect this is absurd. Also there are no Pashtuns in Iran. The reason I say Pashtun to be Desi, is because the famous Prithviraj Kapoor was from a Pathan family in Peshawar and spoke “Pashto” as a first language.
Of course Afghans are Desi. That’s like asking if Pakistanis are desi.
Actually, its fair to say that ‘desi-ness’ dimishes the further you get from the Gangetic plain. So Afghans are about as ‘desi’ as Tamils. (Or even more desi than Tamils)
How progressive of Yale, yet they won’t allow ROTC back on campus.
Thanks for the prompt reply, Abhi. I will try to clean up my posts in the future. Now back to the question, should Afghanis be considered desi? In my opinion, No. The Tajik, Uzbek, and Hazari minorities have no linguistic or ethnic connection to desis. They are Central Asians who have a close affinity towards the Iranians(both in language eg.Dardic and religion eg. majority are Shia). And Pasthuns see themselves as anything but desi. Try frequenting an Afghan message board sometime and you’ll see what they think of Indians and Pakistanis. Out of curiousity, why is everyone so eager to include them into the desi family?
Try frequenting an Afghan message board sometime and you’ll see what they think of Indians and Pakistanis. Out of curiousity, why is everyone so eager to include them into the desi family?
Can you suggest one in English?
This is the same argument we see over and over and over again on this website. This has nothing really to do with who is desi and who isn’t. This is a first generation vs. second generation impasse that will never be resolved. It is best to accept that and to move on.
Typical first genertaion attitude: We are Indian. We don’t want to be called by any other term. People from other cultures don’t want to be associated with Indians so why should we bother to associate with them?
Typical second generation attitude: I grew up with Pakistani, Bangladeshi, Sri Lankan, etc. Americans. They look the same as me, act the same as me, their parents talk just like my parents. We are all good friends today. We are all the same. Desi.
PunjabiJatt, can you point me to ANY second generation boards? Probably not. If you point me to a first generation one I would consider it irrelevant, given the difference in perspectives I just laid out for you.
(K/G)andahar is in the Mahabharat, and Taxila is in the Ramayan, and was once one of Asoka’s administrative cities.
Abhi,
I think you meant…………
“Typical second generation attitude: I grew up with Pakistani, …………”
I have no problem with being desi. I think I am first generation even I was in US of A, when I was 1.5 years old and then my parents went back to India.
One of the greatest Pashtun who stood shoulder to shoulder with Mahatma Gandhi was Badshah Khan, the red shirt leader. When he died, even the Ruskis declared temporary ceasefire so that thousands of Pashtuns across Afghanistan and Pakistan could mourn. That is one desi who stood like a giant.
Abhi writes:
I second that. They too have dark circles around their eyes… are weaker than the general population…Have oily hair…Tend to put on weight faster. etc etc etc
2. act the same as me
Disagree with this. The educational and economic level of 2nd Gen Indian-Americans is far superior to that of the Pak/Bang/Afghan(!) etc etc. Poll any ivy-league. Poll Wall Street companies. Poll Silicon Valley. (Don’t poll Spelling Bee contests – it’s just too apparent). Poll Hollywood.
3. their parents talk just like my parents.
Utter nonsense. You must have been to Indian get togethers. Men and women are chatting together. The topics are kids education, Bollywood, stock market, Iraq war. Never religion. Children running around. Most men and some women are drinking. There is laughter everywhere. Some men are helping women with the food/dishes. Then they all play Antyakshari. etc etc etc. (Yes, and sometimes some idiot drinks too much and throws up).
How many Pak/Bangla/Afghan get togethers have you been to? If you disagree with the following scenario that I’ve seen many times, let me know. Men and women are sitting in separate rooms. They don’t talk with each other’s spouses. Women talk about cooking, cleaning. Men talk about Iraq war, how the US is against muslims, Religion (oh the intensity with which each tries to outdo the other in terms of knowledge). Men don’t help out with anything. If at all liquor is served, it’s only to the men.
When rarely a Pakistani is invited to Indian get-togethers, he tells me how stunned he is with the variety of topics that we talk about. He wonders how I can be having a discussion about 401K plan and Hritik Roshan within a span of a minute.
Have you been to a Pakistani wedding in the US? Maybe you don’t understand Urdu, but there are speeches made to the bride about how woman is inferior to man and how she must serve him well. Have you seen anything like this in Indian weddings in the US?
We are all good friends today. We are all the same. Desi
Yup. You all have dark circles…
M. Nam
Certainly Taxila was part of ancient Indic Civilization. Panini the grammarian wrote his magnum opus there, and its universally acknowledged to be one of the great works of the ancient world. Gandhara was a center of Mahayana Buddhism. There is also a school of art known as Indo-Gandharan, in which Buddhist icons are depicted in a Greek manner. But to say an Afghan is more desi than a Tamil (and, by implication, a Mallu) is, I think, off the mark. There is a small Hindu and Sikh community in Afghanistan. But I don’t think Afghans of whatever generation would buy into the idea that they’re desi. No one wants to be desis except desis!
http://www.afghan-web.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi/YaBB.cgi?board=news;action=display;num=1141135747
Outside of their mild interest in Bollywood, they don’t much care for ‘Desi” culture. I am a second generation NRI, born and raised in Canada, and I agree with M. Nam’s post regarding cultural events, most noteably weddings.I have attended a few Afghan weddings, and it is a very segregated affair, completely opposite to Indian weddings(hindu/sikh). The influence of Islam and Pashtunwala permeates every facet of Afghan society, from their weddings, funerals, and views of the world, not saying that is exclusive to Afghans, but many of those views are in direct conflict with what Desi culture. Heck, their heroes are our enemies(eg.Ghaznavid, Ghauri, Babur)
Outside of their mild interest in Bollywood,
They also have a mild interest in cricket, which they picked up from Pakistanis during their stay in Pakistan-hosted internment camps during the Taliban regime.
um, sorry to burst your bubble, moornam, but at indian get-togethers, hindus talk about religion, too. maybe not in the same context as muslims do, but they still talk about it. some of my parents’ friends, for example, often talk about how bangladeshi immigrants in calcutta need to be deported and how hindus should be prepared for the islamicization of india.
I think he should transfer to the University of Colorado at Boulder and hook up with Professor Ward Churchill . They should be able to come up with some fascinating “academic research”. Possibly even get it funded under a government funded grant that you and I pay for with our taxes.
Maybe you don’t understand Urdu, but there are speeches made to the bride about how woman is inferior to man and how she must serve him well. Have you seen anything like this in Indian weddings in the US?
I have been to dozens of marriages of Urdu/Punjabi speakers and I have never heard the above speech.
How many Pak/Bangla/Afghan get togethers have you been to? If you disagree with the following scenario that I’ve seen many times, let me know. Men and women are sitting in separate rooms. They don’t talk with each other’s spouses. Women talk about cooking, cleaning. Men talk about Iraq war, how the US is against muslims, Religion (oh the intensity with which each tries to outdo the other in terms of knowledge). Men don’t help out with anything.
I am attributing your ridiculous caricature of desi Muslim gatherings to the fact that you have never been to one.
You must have been to Indian get togethers. Men and women are chatting together. The topics are kids education, Bollywood, stock market, Iraq war. Never religion. Children running around. Most men and some women are drinking. There is laughter everywhere.
Your comical inclusion of laughter in your description of Indian gatherings and omission of laughter in your description of Pakistani gatherings is interesting. I would have normally attributed it to inadvertence but the overall tenor of your post leads me to believe that the omission was deliberate and used to illustrate the upbeat joyous Indian gatherings in contrast to burn the US flag on Peshawar street angry man gathering.
Also, your conflation of Indian with Hindu gatherings is pretty silly.
Moornam – that sounds like the desi get togethers I’ve seen, at least amongst my parent’s generation, of Indians in America. Maybe not separate rooms, but separate conversations on separate topics. Men talk about investment, women talk about fashion.
This is different in the second gen, but then the 2nd gen pakisani-americans I know fit right into any second gen gathering. You don’t find out that they’re from (pakistan, bangladesh, sri lanka) until quite a while later.
but then the 2nd gen pakisani-americans I know fit right into any second gen gathering. You don’t find out that they’re from (pakistan, bangladesh, sri lanka) until quite a while later.
Good point.
based on some of the comments, i.e.
“The educational and economic level of 2nd Gen Indian-Americans is far superior”
i guess, ahrm, not all 2nd gens have that much more superior educational level, if any at all.
why harsh whether predominantly muslim domoniant countries are desi’s or not, because some people seem to think that.
the truth is, when they are harassing u or beating u up or throwing racist remarks, other people dont much care whether ur indian or afghani or bangali or pakistani, or for that matter whether ur a hindu or muslim.
the area i live in, predominantly eastern europeans, former soviet unionists, and jewish at that, if you went by the behaviour and mannerisms, u would swear they were desi’s.
and besides, some people think they are deshi’s, not desi’s.
Moornam wrote:
Disagree with this. The educational and economic level of 2nd Gen Indian-Americans is far superior to that of the Pak/Bang/Afghan
Why only Americans — look at Canadians. Indian-Canadians do about the same, or worse, than Pakistani Canadians (not amny B-deshi Canadians). Your way of thinking would result in a different definition of Desi for every diaspora country.
When rarely a Pakistani is invited to Indian get-togethers, he tells me how stunned he is with the variety of topics that we talk about.
Odd that. Judging from your posts, I’d have bet that every conversation returned to the subject of how awful muslims are.
(Having been invited to a few Indian-American get togethers, I find the topics range from how unbelievably intelligent their children are to how to get a green card. Stunning, but in a different way!)
PunjabiJatt wrote:
I have attended a few Afghan weddings, and it is a very segregated affair, completely opposite to Indian weddings(hindu/sikh).
Muslim Indian weddings are sometimes segregated, sometimes not.
Heck, their heroes are our enemies(eg.Ghaznavid, Ghauri, Babur)
Plenty of Desis I know have Ghauri and Babur as heros. You’re mixing up the terms ‘desi’, and ‘Indian’ and conflating them both with ‘Hindu/non-Muslim’
Ikram, Ennis, and Al_Mujahid_for_debauchery, y’all took the words right out of my mouth. cheers… =)
think p.j. and m.n just need to rant..s’all, and muslims seem to be a good punching bad these days..
[Actually, its fair to say that ‘desi-ness’ dimishes the further you get from the Gangetic plain. So Afghans are about as ‘desi’ as Tamils. (Or even more desi than Tamils)]
says WHO. are u saying tamils and mallus arent DESI. another example of the aryan gened north indian trying to oppress the dravidian people.well let me just tell u we are just as and even more DESI than any of u. SO HA, in you face, hindi boy.
and then, regarding the whol are they or arent they debate. i think they are cuz after the talban fell, afghanis started embracing bollywood as one of their first sign of cultural freedom. and also, the afghani-american issue of cultural differences. i think it has more to do with the individuals than any thing. i have muslim firends whose parents are from hyderabad and are JUST as conservative as the ones u described. a lot of their girls (including my friends) get married at 18 and they dont even see their would-be husbands until the wedding day/nite. when i asked them if they couldnt talk to this hot hyderbadi guy at parties, their appalled answer was,”no, of coure, not. how can we, its not like we hang out together.” and i was sincerely confused and slightly condescending, almost as we if didnt share the same motherland and desi pride, like an american talking to them. on the other hand, one of my pakistani friend, while still a good muslim girl, goes to parties and hangs out with guys because her parents trust her not to disappoint them. i think it just depends on the people and their particular beliefs.
ps- pattie, he is a cutie
PunjabiJatt said :
Now since I havent been to any Afghan weddings, I am willing to take your word for it.
Disagree here. Pakistan has named “their” missile ‘Ghauri’ too, they are still Desis. (just Desis who have made wrong choice of heroes 🙂 IMO)
Which desis would those be Ikram? The refugee Pashtun population of Pakistan? Or the misguided pakis, who falsely name their weaponary after those foregin, mainly turkic invaders? The Afghanis don’t much care for ‘desis’ claiming their forefathers.
Makhdom Raheen, the Afghan information minister, said Kabul recently sent a letter through its Foreign Ministry to Pakistan over its use of names including Mohammed Ghauri, a 12th-century Muslim conqueror. One series of Pakistan’s ballistic missiles is called Ghauri. “We asked them not to use the names of great elders of Afghanistan on weapons of mass destruction or other war equipment,” Raheen said
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/4740570.stm
PunjabiJatt, there you go… even President Bush thinks Pakistan is a Arab nation!!
Actually, its fair to say that ‘desi-ness’ dimishes the further you get from the Gangetic plain. So Afghans are about as ‘desi’ as Tamils. (Or even more desi than Tamils)]
says WHO. are u saying tamils and mallus arent DESI. another example of the aryan gened north indian trying to oppress the dravidian people.well let me just tell u we are just as and even more DESI than any of u. SO HA, in you face, hindi boy.
The first statement is just plain illogical. The second – let’s not give more credence than necessary to a controversial and increasingly discredited theory.
Bush ran into trouble when he praised Pakistan as “a force for freedom and moderation in the Arab world.”
What a fool!
Just a word about Prithvi Raj Kapoor being a Pathan/Pashtun (in response to RC’s post (#24). That’s a common (mis)perception. Kapoors are Punjabi Khatris. They were found all over central and western undivided Punjab prior to Partition. The Hindus living in far western areas of Punjab (now in Pakistan), and in Peshawar area, were referred to as Punjabi Pathans. They spoke Hindko (a dialect of Punjabi) and not Pashto as their mothertongue, and had specific cultural traits which differentiated them from other Punjabi Hindus (has anyone seen the picturisation of the song ‘Meri Zohra Jabeen’ from the classic movie ‘Waqt’? That’s the Punjabi Pathans). The famous Kapoor family of Bollywood came from that background (so does Anil Kapoor’s family). Anyway, this was NOT the same as the narrowly-defined, ‘pure’, ethnic Pathans of Afghanistan and North West Frontier Province. THEY (the real ethnic Pathans) were (are) entirely Muslim, and belong to certain very-well delineated lineages with distinct surnames (Durrani, Yusufzai, Afridi, etc). They do not accept the so-called Punjabi Pathans as real Pashtuns, and would not intermarry with them (religious differences notwithstanding). Please look up Pashtun and Hindko in Wikipedia for more info.