I once dated for a few months a desi sister who remained my friend. She had separated from her longtime boyfriend, who was African-American. Her familyÂ’s disapproval was one of the big stresses on their relationship. So it was quite a step when they got back in touch and rekindled. I was honored to be privy to this, and with it, to R.Â’s management of her parentsÂ’ anxieties.
The next year they married, in her familyÂ’s backyard in Orange County. The aunties were in full effect, all gossip and jewels and rolls of flesh. They inquired hungrily as to my status. The uncles were hanging out. R. and W. sat before the pandit, soaked in sweat from their garments, the fire and the summer heat. No one was paying any attention. Except, that is, for W.Â’s family, a cortege of beautifully turned out Black folks from Arkansas and Texas. They sat for hours in the sun, sole occupants of the front row, wearing looks of deep confusion. I believe I was the only guest to attempt to explain the proceedings. The aunties looked right through them.
The wedding was a triumph for R.; her parents, lovely people, had come around. But it said little for the community’s readiness to miscegenate in the blackward direction. That pesky little problem, which many mutineers will be at least anecdotally familiar with, is not one of the themes of Lavina Melwani’s article “The Color of Desi” in the January 2006 edition of Little India (shout-out to Cinnamon Rani).
The article is a positively giddy celebration of desi mixitude:
Think Halle Berry, think Tiger Woods, think Saira Mohan, think Lisa Ray, Sarita Chowdhury.
These are the faces of the future, faces where cultures and races blend, where different essences combine to create a new fragrance — haunting but youÂ’re never quite sure of what it is. Musk? Attar? Tuberoses? Or a mix of all?
Welcome to the brave new world of children of intercultural unions, families that defy the old rules — hopscotching over national borders, criss-crossing cultures and a babble of languages to create a new race, a new reality. It’s almost as if the great showman in the sky, sitting in his director’s chair and bored with the same old, same old, is experimenting and bringing some pizzazz to the leela or celestial play.
In fact, it turns out, desis are straight-up cultural pioneers:
What will surprise Indian Americans, however, is that they at the front of the ranks. According to the 2000 US census, 220,000 Indians — almost 12 percent of the total Indian population of 1.9 million — identified themselves as multiracial, i.e. they listed themselves as Indian and one other racial group, which is five times the national average of 2.4 percent. Nationwide, almost 2.5 percent of all Whites, 4.8 percent of Blacks and 14 percent of Asians identified themselves as multiracial.
The story goes on to introduce us to a variety of mixed couples or children thereof. (Like the white-desi couple who named their kids Britteny, Bradley, Brijesh and Bhavika.) Each one tells us of the stresses or joys of balancing their two cultures. The one sister we meet who has married a Black man, Nisha Kutty, lives in the biracial paradise of Fort Greene, Brooklyn. Kutty is self-aware:
America is still so much about race – even though it likes to think it’s not – so will she face any special challenges bringing up Surya? Without blinking an eyelid, Kutty says, “Yes, definitely I will. I think if I had married someone white the whole story would have been different.”
The article refrains from developing that angle, lest perhaps it upset the ambient happiness. Instead we move on to a half-Scandinavian sister for whom “The white and Indian issue is not a big deal in terms of being a problem of identity.”
There’s more here than a single blog post can handle – long held ethnic and racial prejudice, notions of immigration and assimilation, the dreaded Model Minority question, a whole lot of class issues, and intergenerational stuff as well. I’m not going to pretend to develop all these themes, some of which have been touched on here before.
Still, being biracial myself (my moms is Jewish American) IÂ’ve always held a special interest in these topics. During my guest residency here, IÂ’m going to try to assemble some thoughts, throw out some questions, and hopefully report on some experiences that folks are having out there. The politics of mixing are my concern. If youÂ’re half-Black, are you desi? If youÂ’re half-white, are you a person of color? Are there desi quadroons, octoroons?
And beyond the labels, which anyone can put on or remove at will, what do these identities mean to you politically, living in the United States, or in the other multiracial societies where Mutineers dwell?
Peace.
I asked a half-Filipina, half-Indian friend about whether she had ever felt pressure to date brown people (as a mutual friend of ours had declared that she could only ever be with 2nd-gen Koreans, as no one else in the world would possibly ever understand her). She’s with a half-Mexican, half-white guy, and she merely said “I think he understands my identity issues.” Ha! 🙂
I have another half-Indian, half-German friend who I met in SF before I moved to London (who, weirdly enough, has settled in Korea. He says he feels very Pico Iyer). I always thought he looked vaguely Italian or Latino or whatever, but I never “saw” his Indian-ness until I was surrounded by Asians full-time and got to know certain looks. Does that make sense? It was weird recently to go back and look at a video of my friend and suddenly be all, “blimey, he’s BROWN!” 😉
I also have a female friend who dated a Bengali guy (who, when asked, would say “I’m from Michigan, dude!”) for 3 years but was terrified that if they had children, they wouldn’t “relate” to her because they wouldn’t have blue eyes. There was no talking her out of that one.
My brown best friend, however, REFUSES to date white women because he thinks it’s a “cliche.” (yes, I sent him that Kiran Desai quote) My Brit Bengali boyfriend says that it’s ONLY “weird white women” who’ve ever pursued him romantically. This is all far too confusing for me to keep up with. 😉
I see that while I was sleeping, a multiculti mutiny was afoot 🙂 I also read the Little India article and was actually quite surprised at the percentages of mixing, within the desi numbers. But then when I stopped to run a little 6-degrees of social analysis, we have several instances in our family, and not just in our generation. It’s interesting. There are always some blood purist assholes– as there are assholes no matter what your race, in family– I had a Chacha (now nicknamed Draco Malfoy Uncle) once call me “a half-blooded white witch, just like your cold-hearted mother” which sucked, but he’s an ignorant man who’s never left U.P.
I did find the article to be a little bit exoticizing and gawky, at least in Melwani’s verbiage choices. And enough with the whole pizza-and-pakoras, donuts-and-dhokla allusions, puh-lease. We’re people, not dietetic conflicts.
As for me, I grew up around several other mixed kids, probably more than average, so I never really thought about race or how I idenfity mine until after college. These days my race is kind of like a sweater; sometimes I put it on, sometimes I take it off, sometimes it’s not relevant or useful, and sometimes I forget it… I know that’s a shitty analogy but I’ve not had enough coffee yet.
America is still so much about race – even though it likes to think it’s not – so will she face any special challenges bringing up Surya? Without blinking an eyelid, Kutty says, “Yes, definitely I will. I think if I had married someone white the whole story would have been different.”
Sad but probably true.
i gots to go do a bunch of work now but i can’t let this pass without giving massive respect to the folks on this thread who have delurked and/or put forward some very personal, powerful material. thank you.
and cicatrix, yo, if we can’t mix some levity and ridiculousness into our seriousness, we’re all screwed. the only reason i hadn’t answered was that i couldn’t come up with a funny-enough riposte.
but again, huge props to those who’ve been speaking from the heart. more later, i promise.
peace
My mumÂ’s biracial. Her mum is Italian and her dad Punjabi (that makes me 1/4 Punjabi, 1/4 Italian, 1/4 Guju and 1/4 Nepalese, OMG thatÂ’s insane!) and her life as a biracial child was awful. She was born in Apartheid South Africa and inter-racial relationships were regarded as criminal offenses. So she was taken away from her parents, who were not allowed to be together, and put in foster care. She grew up as an orphan. She has spent ever moment since trying to fit in with her Indian identity. She dyes her light brown hair black, spends an hour every morning straightening it into submission and hides her light eyes behind huge glasses. For her, acknowledging her diversity meant being ridiculed and being an outcast, so she decided to deny it.
I only hope that at this present time, with the world growing smaller with the myriad mixing of races that people really just look at it as a wonderful new way to look at the world. We wonÂ’t be losing our culture; from my experience it usually enhances it. ItÂ’s a well know fact that a lot of Indian kids try to lose/hide/deny their culture as much as they can, that is why we have terms such as ABCD, but a lot of biracial kids really get into their different cultures. My mum forced my brother and I into taking sitar, tabla, hindi, dancing, bhajan, bal vikas and so many other classes. And for a 4th generation South African thatÂ’s kind of super Indian!:)
“It’s embarassing, because even though I’ve gravitated towards “Indian” things, I know that wearing salwar kameez and watching hindi movies aren’t going to make me Indian, or more to the point, make me a part of my culture—which, not knowing the language or having been raised with anything more than a vague understanding of Tamil identity. It’s really not enough for me to be American, with all that entails, because quite frankly.. I don’t look or feel American, family background aside.
I love it how all these parents say that they’ll leave their kids to define their own identity. So, for me, almost everything I know has had to be from books, or Bollywood, or the internet. It’s very lonely”.
Wonderful thread. Tara, I’m part Tamil and part Mangalorean, and even though I was raised in Madras, I could never form a cohesive “Tamil identity” because I knew almost no one from the Tamil side of the family. But then I lost out because I don’t speak any Konkani so there goes the Mangalorean side. No festivals were celebrated and no ceremonies were performed at home; I still can’t decide whether I missed out on something or not. Do you mean Bollywood as in Hindi movies or do you mean Tamil movies…I’m wondering if Bollywood can help with the Tamil identity thing!
Tara, I just wanted to say that was beautifully put! I’ve tried to explain the same concept before, but with much less succint or successful phrasing. Your whole post (#30) spoke to me and so much of the experience & questions I had/have; you really made my day. thanks for being so open in sharing some of your life
Interesting discussion. I came to the U.S. on my own in my mid-twenties. I decided I didn’t want to end up in an Indian ghetto and stayed clear of all things desi, most of all desi people. In all my interactions in the world of foreigners, I have never felt anything but Indian. I tend to think that race and color are only superficial differences, even though they play a big role in how one is perceived. Ultimately the real difference between people is in how they go about in the world. I think people belong where they feel most comfortable belonging, where it feels like home, and this can quite easily straddle multiple cultures. Of course it may take decades to figure it all out. It doesn’t help matters that western society treats every issue as if it is a problem that requires a solution, thereby creating a lot of pseudo-problems. I think desis are natural-born assimilators but they nevertheless tend to retain their cultural identity. This may have to do with the absence of ideological taboos in Indian culture. It’s going to be interesting to see what develops in the U.S. since whites are projected to be a minority in 50 (?) years or so. Perceptions of foreignness will be less for the brown folk, so fewer anguished school-years. Perhaps only then we can get down to resolving the real identity issues, as in who am I really?
hey young ‘uns… sorry if i offended you , not my intent to disparage your sense of community – funny – because to me it is not YOUR community, but MY community, and in my perspective I have the full right to call out my ugly warts… perhaps not so to you. to contrast my earlier post, do look at this follow-up .. i dare say am more than casually aware of the broader community not as a closed box ethnic definition, but what can make us in Surrey -> B.C. -> Canada thrive.
I’m all for mixing and I’ve grappled with the cultural, societal pressures of dating non-desis and fought with my family like most 20-something 2nd generation Indian-Americans. Still I am uncertain about having kids with a non-desi. I sort of think what makes me Indian-American and seperates me from my parent’s generation is having grown up around racism, and racial and cultural alienation. Its created this kinship with other Hindu Indians as well as Pakistanis, Bangladeshis, Muslims, Sri Lankans, and pretty much most people who are immigrants or the children of them and have had the same experience of racism and alienation. My parents never really felt like this mostly only feeling a kinship with north Indian Hindus. I love that feeling of kinship though, I love that the desi uncle working at a gas station in rural Mississippi will speak to me in Hindi and that we share the momentary joy of seeing another desi so far out in the boondocks of the south. I’m a bit scared as to whether my kids would be denied this experience and that kinship. I’m sure this will come across as me being some pure-blood Hindu nationalist asshole
Dhaavak, First of all (and I can only speak for myself) it has nothing to do with my sense of community being offended – like you point out,I’m not a part of the Sikh community. But I am a part of Canadian society and as Canadians we’re all affected by the “warts” in our history. So while you may think you have the privilage of using the kind of terminology you have to describe Sikhs in B.C., I, as a Canadian have the responsibility to speak up for and stand in solidarity with other Canadians who face racist slurs – which is, I’m afraid, what your comments amount to.
So while I don’t mean to sound patronising and you have every right to be critical of social ills that affect a particular demographic I can’t say I agree with you that you can be excused for your statements just because you’re Sikh and I’m not. There’s a way to talk about these issues without sounding like you’re attacking an entire group of people and perpetuating thr history of racism and hate that has been so instrumental in creating the isolationist and insular society you’re criticizing.
What if you grew up thinking you were of one race but turned out to be another?
Response to Comment 30:
Tara,
You write “So, for me, almost everything I know has had to be from books, or Bollywood, or the internet.”
I assume, from your name, that your father is Hindu. If not, please ignore the rest of the message; I apologize for the intrusion.
You might try visiting the Shiva-Vishnu temple at Livermore. Livermore is about 50 miles from San Francisco.
The temple is constructed in the Tamil-Telegu style. The rituals are done in the Tamil-Telegu style. So there is a lot of Tamil-Telugu style culture there.
On Fridays, girls and women volunteer to make flower garlands. You too can volunteer. The other volunteers will show a friendly curiosity in you.
On Sundays, people sing Lalita Sahasranamam in the Kanaka Durga shrine , which is at the back of the complex. You can join that group as a newbie. Over time, you will become a regular. People will show friendly curiosity in you.
Notice that I ended the preceding two paragraphs in this way: “People will show friendly curiosity in you.” Please remember, a temple is not merely a place to worship solemnly. It is also a kind of club, where you meet people. Do make friends. Cultural absorption will follow automatically.
Don’t feel shy about your mixed parentage. Remember that many of these people know that their own children might well marry out of their original ethnic background. Remeber, also, that when Tamilians are employed in North India, their children know the North Indian culture better than their original ethnic Tamil culture. So they will be sympathetic to your own need to know the Tamil culture better.
End of lecture.
dear brownfrown… i am not sikh and that magnifies the error in my posting. my comment was posted with scant thought to the span of this forum. it reflects extremely poor judgement on my part and i am deeply sorry that i embarassed and offended many. i also apologise for blunting the thrust of this thread by taking it off in another direction.
dhavaak – you are damn right about that. I am sorry you had to vent your flatulence on a lovely thread with such beautiful and inspiring stories and kind of spoilt it a little by distracting from them. But at the same time at least we know the real you now.
Let’s end this discussion and not violate Siddhartha’s responses here – I have loved reading them all and you put a bad smell about the place.
man…what one day off of reading this post will do. especially since i think i was probably the 1st on that did.
boston bombayite. i’m a desi christian, and i’ll be honest that has always been a source of confusion or reflection for me. i’m catholic, and that’s not what i’m confused about. i love my faith (ok…for the most part…the church can be pretty shady at times) and i have no qualms about it being a part of me. my family is from goa, and parents grew up in kenya. they actually spent more time there than they did in india. i remember when i was little actually asking my parents if i was “part black, part indian, and part american!” but the real pieces of interest for me are how “not indian” i felt when i finally went to college and met the world’s desis (couldn’t avoid them…i went to cal). i felt that there was so much of “their” culture that was completely foreign to me. my family even call other non-catholic non-goans as “indians” as if WE WEREN’T. it’s baffling! all that i could put my finger on was that “indian” religions (hinduism, jainism, sikhism, etc) were so ingrained with indian culture, the daily life, etc…that that is what i missed out on when i thought of indian culture. but i don’t even think that’s it, because i know plenty (ok maybe only a few) of christian indians who are really “indian” in the may family thought of the word. i myself never thought that way. i’m goan, and i know that means “indian” and i love it. though i feel i’m on a constant quest to learn more, i feel like it’s still me. i’ve only dated non-catholic non-goan indian girls (just how it’s worked out so far) so far. i’ve loved it. but my parents (ok, probably just my mom) would rather me be with a non-indian catholic girl than an indian non-catholic. so, filipino and mexican girls, here i come.
i wonder about this a lot. how do you stay desi if you’re not a part of what (i think) is one of the biggest components of being desi…indian religions.
Well, nobody’s actually under any obligation to “stay desi” (despite what many of the older generation may think). Choose your own path.
Of course, one can never change one’s ethnicity. However, when it comes to various cultural issues, it’s in your own hands. We just have to make sure that whatever we decide to “pick and choose”, we do it for the right reasons and are not self-destructive in our decisions.
predominantly Indian girls, do not date South Asian men as a rule of thumb.
i’ve run into this perception before. here in the USofA: U.S. born and 1.5 generation (born abroad, raised in the U.S., like me) Asian Indians out of these numbers, you note that 34.9% of men are married to white women and 27% of women are married to white men.
also, re: manish’s assertion, i agree there is a high probability that the intermarriage rates will drop a bit, here in the USofAagain: When you look at the percentage of U.S. Born + 1.5 generation Asian Indians out of their total population, a little over 10%, it is important to note how new this group is (10% of those married, there are many children who will start to get married in the next 5-20 years). but, this doesn’t negate my overall point, which i will ilustrate by analogy: until the 1960s jewish americans had intermarriage rates below 10% (ergo, will herberg’s protestant-catholic-jew trichotomy which operated under the assumption that ethnicity didn’t matter, religion did, when it came to marriage and socialization). today, depending on who you talk to and believe, the jewish-non-jewish intermarriage rate is between 35-55% (the number of jewish-jewish marriages is inflated by the 10% of “out-marriages” where the spouses converts to judaism before marriage). i can’t see that the brown community in the USA will ever approach this less than 10% number which the jewish community exhibited for at least 2 generations of critical mass, and which allowed them to develop a powerful subculture. additionally, despite differences between ‘eastern european’ jews from lithuania, galicia (poland), hungary, etc. and older ‘german jewish’ communities (often bavarian), the jewish community wasn’t as diverse as the brown community is in america. that is, prior to arrival in the USA they were united by a common language (yiddish) and perception from gentile society that they were aliens without nationality and united by a pan-european religious-ethnic identity.
i grant that people like manish, abhi, anna, vinod, etc. are generating a pan-brown (read: south asian or desi) identity. myself, reading this blog many of the cultural references are opaque to me, but i wonder if they are also sometimes opaque to FOBs who identify strongly with a regional indian culture. but, as i have stated before, i think that pan-brownism is going to be one stream here, i would rank the three streams of brownisn in the USA like so in terms of numbers significance:
1) browns who are socially and sexually integrated with the non-brown world day-to-day (this includes extremely muslim browns who would prefer to marry a black american muslim than a brown non-muslim) 2) browns who have generated their own subculture which has an accepted role within the broader american subculture 3) browns who attempt to perpetuate their original south asian subcultures in new circumstances (this would include ismailis who preserve gujarati in the home, or iyers who only marry among iyers, etc.)
1 may not be a majority, but i think this forum has shown that #2 has to deal with the fact that #3 is not dead yet, and objects fundamentally in many ways to the legitimacy of #2. i would put myself in #1, but i think many of us who aren’t head-cases have a live and let live attitude and don’t mind what choices people make in their lives so long as they respect others as have valid alternative paths which have their own grounding a set of values (there are head-cases in all three groups, their pet peeves are different, but the root of their manifested nutsoness is essentially that they are head-cases, not the causes they point to).
For all those people in Canada. This monday at 8 on CBC is a movie you all should watch.
It’s about a punjabi sikh girl from Maple Ridge, BC[just outside of Vancouver]. Who goes to her mom village in Punjab and meets and falls in love with a lower caste poor sikh boy.
They end up getting married without telling the girl family. However when the girl goes back to Canada her family finds out and make her life a living hell and tell her to get a divorce. She said no and goes back to India to visit her husband.
There the girls mom and uncle use there money to hire killers to kill the couple. The girl dies but her husband is left for dead but he somehow survives. Now the poor groom is in jail on a false rape charge over year from a poor girl from another punjabi family paid off by the dead girls family.
After 5 years the Punjab police had 7 men convicted of the crime. However the idiot police in Canada are only know due to pressure from the Indian govermnent and Canadian media doing something.
This is 2nd sikh punjabi girl in western Canada to be killed by her family for falling in love this decade. Living in this part of the world as a sikh I’m not surprised at the sexism and backwardness of my people. It is so sad.
well said jai
Of course, one can never change one’s ethnicity. However, when it comes to various cultural issues, it’s in your own hands. We just have to make sure that whatever we decide to “pick and choose”, we do it for the right reasons and are not self-destructive in our decisions.
on that same note, how do you feel about “picking and choosing” bits and pieces of the religion you identify with? and if you do, then can you still truly identify with that religion? or are you formulating some new revisionist-hybrid-type version??
Bong:
However Indians marrying people from other parts of the country has been going on for centuries, it’s far more common than Indians marrying black people, for example.
You’re absolutely correct. But being an NI 2gen married to a Telegu-speaking SI 2gen, I can tell you that I frequently need a translator at family parties. And while I love Hyderabadi cooking, I did not grow up eating it. There are very many non-trivial differences between regions. We are both Hindus and are very keen on imparting Hinduism to our kid,, but we have very different Hindu family traditions which will in all likelihood disappear once our parents are gone, and we’ll be subsumed–like everyone else–into the emerging non-affilaietd (to caste or sect) American Hinduism (whatever that turns out to be!). Would it be any different if a Frenchman married, say, a Belgian? India (South Asia) is a civilization housed in a nation-state.
That puts me in Razib’s category 2, the brown-culture category.
Response to Comment 70:
Terence,
You write “on that same note, how do you feel about “picking and choosing” bits and pieces of the religion you identify with? and if you do, then can you still truly identify with that religion? or are you formulating some new revisionist-hybrid-type version??”
That is what the emperor Akbar did. He made up a religion called Din-i-Ilahi.
Compliment.
This is one of the best thread, I have encountered in a while.
People are speaking out their heart rather than “usual” grandstanding.
I am listening, Please continue.
Pear Jam Fan
Not all of ‘your people’ are like that. I find that kind of generalising offensive. Get that perspective and then do something positive about it. And don’t stereotype and generalise whilst dealing with the situation – that is just dumb.
thoughts on comments 70 & 72: It depends on how significant religion is in your life. I’m not particularly devout in my beliefs. I’m more religious for the fact that it’s what our family has done culturally, historically. Yes yes, there are no atheists in a foxhole. There are parts of every religion, including the one I identify as, that I simply don’t agree with or cannot abide by. But then again, religion is not as significant to me as it is to many others here, so I am totally ok with taking the buffet-plate approach to matters of culture and faith. It doesn’t reflect on if I’m a good person or not.
and then she was q’ing her identity… phssh… brown to the core… 🙂
Hey Anandos…my nutty Mangalorean (kind of) parents, once in a fight, “insulted” each other by claiming the other had a Portuguese grandmother. The seamless mixing of their urbane cosmopolitanism and raging provincialism is utterly fascinating. Wait till they see who I bring to dinner! Sharing cultural traits is one way to justify uni-cultural marriages, but browns who steep their objections to mixed marriage on racial purity terms are just bizzare. I don’t believe people in my own family are all the same race! 🙂 A pullao is just generally Basmati rice gussied up with nuts, raisins, and saffron. A biryani is much more complex dish, a casserole if you will, infused with the motherload of the usual suspects of spices, often with meat, takes hours to cook, few get right. Hyberbadis do it the best, making biryani that is.
I like Radhika’s post about her pan-Indian family, very sweetly written.
–rta – your generalization on the fobs is not accurate. Like everything else, its merely a function of one’s economic and social upbringing. In fact, (being a fob) I find the Indian families here in the US to be far more provincial than those back home.
your generalization on the fobs is not accurate
i don’t make a generalization, i asked a question about a possible generalization.
terence, dead-right-on. My parents would rather I be with a Scandinavian Christian than a brown muslim. Such is life I suppose. But will their grandchildren all be taupe? sirc, funny thing is, my grandmother calls one version of what you call biryani ‘pulao’ and another ‘biryani.’ Both have lamb and are casserole-style. I’ve tried to get consistency out of her for years. Ah well. . .
Terence,
Difficult question. The best suggestions I could provide would be to select the tenets or behavioural practices you personally believe in and which make the most sense to you; discard the rest, along with blindly ritualistic practices. Place the greatest emphasis on the core humanitarian values; it’s not a good idea to be overly obsessed with “surface symbols and rituals” if one is simultaneously an arrogant jerk or hypocrite (what in some Indian languages is called “pakhandee” — meaning a religious hypocrite who claims to be very devout but obviously has little genuine spiritual awareness).
If one is genuinely religious (or is attempting to gain some degree of genuine spirituality) but is obviously not a very saintly person in some aspect(s) of one’s behaviour, then one should at least have the humility and integrity to admit this and to be aware of it. This not only helps to control our egos, but it also prevents accusations of “false piety” and hypocrisy from being hurled at us. As you probably know from my various postings here on SM, I’m not necessarily a very pious person in the “real” saintly sense, but I do my best to apply my religion’s teachings with regards to basic human conduct and the ethical treatment of other people, at least in a semi-Westernised, “modern life” context.
Tough question. I think it probably depends on the specific religion one is discussing. Some faiths are more flexible than others in this regard.
Again, depends on the particular religion. I think that if one is amending or discarding some of the most basic, core tenets of the faith, then one cannot subsequently claim to be a member of that religion, not in its organised sense, anyway. Also, one needs to beware of “making it up as one goes along”, ie. don’t fabricate some fake, artificial pseudo-religion that doesn’t necessarily enable you to gain any real spiritual beneift.
With regards to the “hybrid” query, it depends on whether one is “picking and choosing” from a single organised religion or if one is attempting to take bits and pieces from several disparate religions. My previous comment about the dangers of manufacturing a “fake” pseudo-religion applies here too — you need to be very careful here. Also, it would be unwise to pick/combine obviously contradictory and incompatible aspects of several faiths, or to practice some elements of the different religions which are in direct violation of the “original” religion’s tenets. To give a good example: The Indian “Star Plus” channel regularly shows inaccurate representations of Sikh tenets in some of their soaps, and depicts Sikhs as practically being “Punjabi Hindus with beards and turbans”. One of the most flagrant distortions is in a serial called “Kesar”, which repeatedly shows allegedly-Sikh characters referring to Guru Nanak as “Waheguru” (one of the Sikh names for God), praying to his paintings in the form of idol-worship, and engaging in a number of other orthodox Hindu rituals. The reality is that every single one of the examples I’ve just given completely contradicts the “real” Sikh tenets, including Guru Nanak’s own teachings in these matters (ie. He was not God himself, idolatry is not permitted in Sikhism, and one is also not supposed to engage in non-Sikh religious rituals).
This is just one example based on my own religious affiliation, but hopefully you understand what I’m trying to say here.
Ultimately, of course, it’s up to you and — as I said before — you have to choose your own path. Just make sure your intentions are clear and “good”, make control of one’s own conduct and the ethical treatment of others your priority, and — for God’s sake — don’t fall for any religious “gimmicks”.
i am a 2nd gen desi, born and brought up in america. my mom just passed about a year and half ago. i cant help but think about how im going to raise my (future) kids. how will i show them the beauty of indian culture? how will i teach them to speak bengali? im only 20 and in college right now, but i know that these are questions that i have to answer eventually. i went to visit my relatives in india last month for the first time in 7 years and it was the most amazing experience of my life. i want to be able to give my kids that same experience but i have no idea how to do that, especially now that my main link to desh is gone. These are just questions that are floating around in my head right now but eventually they will become concrete.
i just wanted to express how amazing it was to read this thread and to thank everyone for sharing their stories. i really dont have any close desi friends and its hard to relate about this stuff. i dont feel alone for the first time in a long time. thank you.
aparna-
your post struck a chord with me. i’m a 2nd-gen bengali also, born and brought up here. i’m 22 and lost my mom about 5 years ago now. she was the one person in my life who made me hold on very tightly to what little i knew of my bengali culture and was able to learn growing up here. she taught me how to read and write in bangla, which is something that i will treasure for the rest of my life.
what i have to say to you–don’t feel like you can’t keep that link with your indian culture. since you seemed to have a positive experience in india, go back as often as possible. if you ever have the chance to take time off between school and work, think about going over for a few months. i know it seems like a long time, but it can do amazing things in helping you to understand so much more about culture and traditions, and also will do wonders for your comprehension of and flueny in bengali.
also, look around for your local bengali organization here. of course, experiences vary, but usually it’s a wonderful way to just keep in touch with a community, attend a few events here and there, actually hear bangla spoken while you’re in college. i know, they’re small things, but for me it made a world of difference. if you’re interested in the arts or music, for example, you could probably find someone who sings rabindrasangeet and wouldn’t mind teaching you a bit.
outside of bengali culture in particular, educating yourself about south asia, either through courses you take, reading you do on your own, or events that you decide to attend, can be an incredibly enriching experience.
as people have said so many times, no one can really properly define what it is to be “authentically indian.” if you try your best to retain those aspects of your culture which you feel are most important to you, and pass those on to your children, i think that’s doing a pretty damn good job =)
all the best- a.
One thing that touched me about about Aparna’s and dva’s posts above was the love of your Bangla language, despite being 2nd gen. I myself am 2nd gen too, and I LOVE Hindi (and Punjabi) so much…love them the way a Parisian loves French. This despite the fact that I’m not fully fluent and make some grammatical mistakes. So many 2nd genners don’t give a damn about their language, or don’t give it any importance in their life…they don’t regret that this one huge aspect of their cultural identity has slipped away from them forever. I made a huge effort in college to learn the languages (before nursery school I was fluent, by high school I could understand but no longer speak) and as dva said, that is something I will treasure my whole life.
I have several friends/colleagues who are of mixed desi/other heritage or are in relationships or married to non-desis. One guy is Indian/Maori, and I’ve met others of this mix too (I should mention that I’m posting from New Zealand!). One Indo-Fijian guy (a Muslim) is married to a Samoan Christan woman, and probably our best looking female staff member ever was Indo-Fijian/European (she had half the males around here wrapped around her little finger!) A guy I met on a TV commercial acting job told me he was of Sikh, Samoan, and German descent. Public desi/other figures around here include Sukhi Turner (Indian/English) who was mayor of Dunedin (New Zealand’s fifth largest city for several terms, and Arahdna (desi/Samoan) a singer who was up to No.4 on the local countdown recently. Most desi/other partnerships here would probably be desi/white but I have noticed a few desi/Samoan and desi/Chinese couples around too. The areas of Auckland that I’ve lived in have always been very multi-racial with no dominance of any one group desi (Hindu, Christian, Sikh, Muslim), Maori (various tribes) Europeans, Pacific Islanders (Samoans, Tongans, Cook Islander Fijians, etc), Chinese… A really clear memory I will always have of this is a car accident two streets over from us – every house around had emptied out as everyone came out for a look – a United Nations of us (including a hunky Sikh guy straight from the shower, dripping wet – wearing only a towel and with his hair down to his waist…).
i am pakistani muslim and both of my brothers are married to mexican girls…they are very happy and one has 3 kids with the 4th on the way and the other has 1 because both him and his wife are doctors and they barely see each other to have more kids!! I think they would have problems if my mom was to of set them up with some paki girl from pakistan… we were all bought up here and frankly i think desi girls have more issues with not wanting to get along with the inlaws and so on.. it is almost like they are programmed like that from birth.. the mother in law and the hubby’s sisters are all evil!! I am not saying this is true for everyone but oh about 75% of desis… hope this post doesnt p anyone off.. just had to say it! by the way yeah, i am a pakistani girl but i came to the u.s when i was 2.. so i get along perfectly with my inlaws.. i actually am the 25% that enjoy thier company!!
Hello, I am originally from Africa and I grow up in Paris. I live now in California and I am dating an Indian girl.We really love each other but I am scared to see what would be her parents reaction knowing that I am black and… muslim. We have great jobs in the US but she was offered to take an executive “6 figures” position in Bombay. I would like to go to make her proud but my brother is telling me that they will kill us seeing a mixed couple. She is telling me that her parents will be ok but I am not sure since they know me but never saw me and don’t know that I am black. We want to get married but I am worried about people’s reaction in India. Is it wise to go live in India? What do you think is the best thing to do?
By the way, somebody smached her car last week. We don’t know yet if it’s related to us or not.
Thanks
This is an interesting post. It is nice to read through the comments. I read somewhere about a blind black man who grew up as a white racist.. Sounded very cool :-)) Everything depends on how you grow up and who/what influences you in childhood.. attitudes about color/religion/food etc..
Tara,
So, for me, almost everything I know has had to be from books, or Bollywood, or the internet. It’s very lonely.
If you want to know more about Tamil identity, Bollywood is the wrong place to go.. Bollywood mostly reflects Punjabi/North Indian culture/identity..
Just so you know… there is no such thing as “race”. Nor Black or White… It works only for Asian,Indian,Latino,Mexiacan because it shows where they are from.
In a way.. its silly to even debate. Where is a “black” person from? I know people darker than me from Thailand.
Nice post but its around ideas that are not real. People just been force feed its real.
Hi
I have nothing against mixed couples, but I do an one interesting questions. Why do Indian guys exclusively date only white girls from the Western world and then marry only Indian girls? Before you say that it’s because parents forced, I would like to say that I’m sorry but men (no matter the race) can’t be forced into anything they don’t really want to do. Girls, specifically Indian ones, can and do get harassed and forced. Why is this?
I am an indian girl married to a white boy, whom I love dearly. He is a great husband and wonderful son-in-law. He has given up meat and alcohol, and respects my culture. To me, this respect matters more than the color of his skin.
This is silly. Men can and are forced into doing stuff they don’t want all the time. Indian mothers are masters of emotional and psychological manipulation. Parental pressure works on men exactly like it does on women (although maybe focusing on different things): “you’re disgracing us, you’re killing our culture, etc…”
You can get around it, but it’s a huge sacrifice (just like it is for a woman). It’s always phrased in zero-sum terms, like, “either you marry an Indian woman or you turn your back on your family”. However, I do know a few married couples featuring Indian men and white women. But don’t ignore the effort it takes to make that work.
As my parents put it best “Sikhs are a progressive, successful partner in any society they join, their downfall, no matter what is Sikhs cannot get along and rather divide over minute differences.”
Now i am originally from vancouver island, and i find the difference remarkable between sikhs from there (and interior) and those originally from the city. Vancouver is at best a pretentious city, where its all about stickin to your “kind.” The saddest part is this how unnaproachable the sikh community is in general. Being in my mid 20’s and seeing how both gender groups act out and about in Van, is pathetic. There is this profound phenomenonon that u cannot speak to male or female without stating who you are with, what your last name is, or who your cousins are! This generation of Sikhs needs to remember the struggles most your parents went through so you could drive your benz, or wear the newest lacoste outfit. Its sad really, most our parents come from no electricity and running water and here in Canada we prance around like gods. I just hope that its a trend that we slowly recognize and break.
I am guju married to Vietnamese. In the begining we had to go thru some hard times with my family but now my parents think very highly of my husband. They even go as far as saying things like even a guju boy might not have been as nice as my husband. I am very proud of our union and our very handsome son who is half Indian and half Vietnamese. Like someone on this post said it’s all about where your family comes from. Marrying someone from another race or caste does not make you or the other person superior or inferior. Our son is raised with both traditions, culture and religions (buddhist and hindu). We are all god’s children!!!!!!!
This is a really interesting post… Being a multiracial (Apache, Black, and White) person myself I am always fascinated with various perspectives about interracial marriage. My niece is three weeks old and her father is Indian American; she is Black, White, Apache, and Indian (and of course she is adorable and beautiful!) I have contemplated in my mind how things will be for her (in terms of the perceptions of others)even though I have somewhat of an idea based on my own life experience. I was born in 1978 (in the US when interracial relationships and identities still weren’t really accepted; not that they are now, they are just more ‘in your face’)into an all-white Southern family who wasn’t ready for a brown baby. But fortunately everything worked out for the best and we grew up well-loved and happy.
The biggest difference will be the reaction from the Indian community/culture which at times seems very exclusive of others and unapproachable. However, in general I have noticed that more Indian men and women are marrying interracially (with Blacks, white, Latinos, and other Asians), again this is especially true with the younger generation. I am starting to se more information on the Net regarding this issue as well. I personally know one Indian girl who was disowned for marrying a Black man – regardless of the fact that he was well educated and professional. This is really unfortunate because her parents are missing out on two beautiful grandchildren and the opportunity to see their daughter in love and happy.
As for my niece, we would definitely like her to be able to embrace Indian culture and be raised with both traditions since they are both who she is. I have to admit that I didn’t think the Indian side of the family would be very accepting, since initially they didn’t want their son to to be with my sister. But surprisingly so far they have been happy and participative in her life; I am hoping this will continue as she grows up.
For some reason though I am optimistic that things are a little different now than from when I grew up. In general rascism is an embedded part of America and I don’t see it going away. However, it seems like the younger generations are more accepting of each other and are used to interracial relationships and multiracial people.
One thing that I can say from my experiences growing up is that the stereotype that multiracial children will be confused is just that – a stereotype. It is really other people (esp. in the US) who are confused by multiracial people, simply because we cannot be placed neatly into one particular category, or one particular box to be checked off; this can make some people very uncomfortable. The most important thing for parents of multiracial children to do is emphasize that their identity is not dictacted or established by other people (and this should really apply to any child), and that a person’s identity is not based solely on the color of their skin or that of their parents. Allow them to embrace all of who they are racially, culturally, linguistically, spiritually etc. and this child will have a strong foundation to protect themselves against others who will question, attack them and attempt to make them feel inferior or try to influence their identity.
I think multiracial people really demonstrate that this notion of ‘race’ is unrealistic, and man made. Maybe one day people will wake up and see that it is really just a tool of manipulation.