Rage Down Under

As I flip through channels, words like violence break the silence, they come crashing in, in to my little world via an Australian reporter being phone-interviewed on FOX news: sydney_riots_wideweb__470x313,0.jpg

What we’ve seen here is that these locals are attacking anyone with a different color skin.

Shudder

Since FOX news helpfully changed the subject right after that incendiary quote, I am left to frantically type “Australia” and “race” in my Google toolbar. I’m dismayed by what I find; tensions between “local” Australians and those who are of Lebanese descent have exploded. Apparently a few of the Lebanese-Australians attacked innocent lifeguards on the beach and “locals” retaliated, much to the delight of Aussie Neo-Nazi retards.

Hordes of vigilantes who had marinated in sun and alcohol sought vengeance against the “Lebs” for this and other, more disturbing offences. No good can come of this revenge race. I cringe at the way “Middle Eastern appearance” is being tossed around, because I am just waiting for some brown person to get caught up in this tragic mix, since we look more “Middle Eastern” than, well, Middle Eastern people do.

Another thought strikes me– sure enough, you tipsters are on it. Mutineer Ananthan points me towards the following, massively disturbing words in the Sydney Morning Herald:

A BARE-CHESTED youth in Quiksilver boardshorts tore the headscarf off the girl’s head as she slithered down the Cronulla dune seeking safety on the beach from a thousand-strong baying mob.
Up on the road, Marcus “Carcass” Butcher, 28, a builder from Penrith, wearing workboots, war-camouflage shorts and black singlet bearing the words “Mahommid was a camel f—ing faggot” raised both arms to the sky. “F— off, Leb,” he cried victoriously.

Indeed, victory is yours, you idiot.Cronulla is a suburb which is south of Sydney (and incidentally, the birthplace of Elle Macpherson):

A crowd of at least 5000 – overwhelmingly under 25 – took over Cronulla’s foreshore and beachside streets. Police were powerless as 200-odd ringleaders, many clutching bottles or cans of beer and smoking marijuana, led assaults on individuals and small groups of Lebanese Australians who risked an appearance during the six-hour protest…
After a local man, “Steely”, had led a chant of “F— off, Lebs”, a young man demanded the megaphone and told the crowd it was “racist”. A bottle arced in from the audience and shattered on his forehead. He fled “like a bleeding rabbit”, someone yelled after him.

Here, have some perspective with regards to how significant this is:

Cronulla was possibly Australia’s biggest racist protest since vigilante miners killed two Chinese at Lambing Flat in 1860.

An eye for an eye and the whole world can’t see a damned thing:

Yesterday’s violence had been brewing for months. It came to a head last weekend when some Lebanese Australian men attacked members of the North Cronulla Surf Life Saving Club after they asked the visitors to stop playing soccer because it was disturbing other beach users.

Because ignorance is as noble as serving your country in the military:

“Steely” – who did not want to identify himself “for fear the Lebs will come and shoot up my joint during the week” – said his children had been scared by Lebanese Australians coming in from the western suburbs.
“I’ve got a four-year-old girl and a boy who’s 11, and they see these bastards come here and stand around the sea baths ‘cos their women have got to swim in clothes and stuff, or they see them saying filthy things to our girls,” he said. “That’s not Australian. My granddad fought the Japs to see Australia safe from this sort of shit, and that’s what I’m doing today.”

226 thoughts on “Rage Down Under

  1. Hmm.. Any specific cause for this sudden burst of racism or has this been going on for a long time? Sorry, I’m a little out of the loop when it comes to Aussie affairs. =X

  2. Well, supposedly there have been tensions on this beach for some time (maybe any aussie readers can add what they know?) – two lifeguards were beaten up I think and some women are claiming to be harrassed by youth gangs, supposedly Muslim? I don’t know the validity of these claims.

    Anyway, what fools. The lot of them.

  3. According to the news reports it has been brewing for a while over tensions between Austrailain Lebanese (a.k.a “lebs”) and the local surfer dude population. The locals don’t like the way that the Lebanese treat them etc. etc. When one of their own were beat up thet decided it was payback time. Read the article that Anna has linked.

  4. okay, the article says that ‘trouble’ has been brewing for some time. And that a huge ‘nationalist’ party was planned for this day? If so, why were the police so obviously unmanned for the task of keeping order? Other articles I’ve read also mention texting and a sort of spontaneous gathering. This sort of thing happned in the riots in France. I’d be scared to be a police commissioner if it’s so easy to mobilize this way – how can you have a rapid response.

    What kind of thugs chase a young girl and try and rip her headscarf off? I literally feel ill.

  5. When I was there Christmas, ’03, the Indian cricket team was in town playing Australia. The Australian press (the Sydney Morning Herald) mentioned that the Indians in the crowd were openly rooting for the Indian team (like the Indians accuse Muslims in India of rooting for Pakistan), but it may have been true, because the local TV stations interviewed many downright ebullient Indians (after a test victory) with Australian accents. 🙂 They call the Indian cricketers the Swami Army–Swaaameee Ahmeee, as transfigured by the Australian drawl. Some of the white Australians showed up to the matches in turbans.

    The Indian cricket team performed well; Laxman in particular had a great series. When he walked into an Indian restaurant (accompanied by his parents) where I was having dinner, many of the Australian women commented on how hot he was.He got celebrity treatment during his strictly vegetarian meal. What a difference from the geeky software engineer image prevalent in America. Here was a respected, world class jock. And they love their cricket there–I saw all these burly white guys in the financial district checking the scores at their lunch break.

    He later had an arranged marriage to a Brahmin from his community. Man, the action that guy turned away. 🙂

    From what I know, there is racism directed against Indians in both Australia and New Zealand. An Indo-New Zealander told me that the Indians are called “curries”. A doctor told me that her colleagues lament how they are being overrun by Indians and Chinese.

  6. wow. scary. but also rife with implication. probably a lot more to it than a binary black and white

  7. from this article:

    “Authorities had expected trouble today after two violent incidents at the beach last week – an attack on two lifeguards on Sunday and a brawl later in the week in which youths turned on a media crew. A series of text messages then began circulating, encouraging members of two rival groups of beach users to attack each other.”

    Emphasis mine.

    *I didn’t realize this was tied to the beating of the medial crew I saw reported, which was pretty brutal.

    **This whole thing should have been clamped down on hard before any violence ever got started….

  8. Gangs of Lebanese extraction have been linked fairly frequently to quite a few highly publicised gang rapes in the southern suburbs of sydney (i.e. the places where the riots occurred). The “westies” tend to be of immigrant descent (usually, Lebanese, Vietnamese and Sri Lankan) and the “surfies” tend to be of white Australian descent. The surf lifesavers represent all that’s good about the (predominantly white) Aussie lifestyle. So it’s quite easy to spin something like that out of control and get a crowd riled up.

  9. wow. scary. but also rife with implication. probably a lot more to it than a binary black and white

    i agree that there’s probably more to it, still doesn’t warrant this type of retardery. chasing young girls and then triumphantly waving their headscarves like trophies? attacking police/emergency vehicles who/which are just trying to do their job? assaulting “their own” when they dare speak out against racism? shudder, cringe, wince.

  10. I just got back from my honeymoon in Australia just about a month ago…. we were there for three weeks and I didn’t notice any racism at all, and we traveled through both the big cities and small towns… in fact, every single person we encountered was incredibly friendly and nice…. however, we never made it to Cronulla. So, just from my own experience (which, of course, is only from a tourist’s perspective) was that the majority of Australians were pretty egalitarian.

    On the other hand, it’s fairly clear that a greater influx of immigrants would correlate with a greater incidence of racism (until immigrants became accepted in society). And judging from Sydney, the number of immigrants (Asian, Lebanese, etc.) is not diminishing, which means that race riots would only increase over time.

  11. Well, I wanted to post a defence of Australian race relations on the post on the Italian Court Ruling, where one poster suggested that Australia was on par with Italy at best. Far from it, I wanted to say, Ausltralia is light years ahead of Italy, it’s on par (if not better) than the UK/US. Then Cronulla happened…

    There have been some tensions with the Lebanese community fo some time, a few years ago two young girls were gang-raped by Lebanese Youths. The whole issue was given a nasty racial slant – partly because the youths made specific comments on the Australian-ness (read: Anglo-Celtic ethnicity) of the victims, and naturally the tabloid media had a field day. The Lebanese community in Sydney has been under pressure for some time now.

  12. my impression is that there is a problem with lebanese muslims specifically. there are tensions between white ozzies and other groups (and hell, stuff between anglo ozzies and greek ozzies), but the gang rape issue is illustrative of a tendency for there to be organized and effective antagonism from muslim minorities toward majorities in many western nations. you can explain it away, but the overall pattern is there.*

    to illustrate the issues that i think differentiate muslims from non-muslims, in my experience FOB east asians and non-muslim south asians tend to keep apart and keep to themselves when they hang out in public places. but, i’ve had several incidents where muslim males (they dressed with the whole schtick) were obviously irritated that my gf was wearing shorts in a park where they were congregated. one time a guy kept staring in an irritated fashion and all of us ended up glaring at each other and it was unpleasant. i’ve talked to other women who have had this experience with many “observant”** muslim males, they gotz issues with the ladies.

    anyway, racism sucks. but there aren’t any saints either.

    • why doesn’t it happen as much in the USA? i think because muslims are ethnically fractured and strongly skewed toward higher education. less ability to mobilize via common lines of affinity and less reason for resentment.

    ** they are observing a certain type of islam obviously.

  13. Tensions have been steadily rising in Australia over the last couple of years between Muslim immigrants and the local population. I daresay a France like situation is going to erupt soon.

    Gang rapist claims right to assault By Natasha Wallace December 10, 2005 THE eldest of four Pakistani gang rapist brothers has admitted lying at trial and apologised to his victims but said he thought he had a right to rape the “promiscuous” teenage girls. MSK, 27, told the NSW Supreme Court yesterday that this was because the girls did not wear headscarves, were drinking alcohol and were unaccompanied when they went to his Ashfield home. MSK also blamed his intoxication, “cultural beliefs” and an undiagnosed mental disorder.

    Gang rapist claims right to assault

  14. but the gang rape issue is illustrative of a tendency for there to be organized and effective antagonism from muslim minorities toward majorities in many western nations.

    Razib, could you provide examples? This is a pretty bold claim, and it also implies a kind of premeditation/strategy. I’m just curious, b/c my context is distinctly US-oriented.

  15. I knew that far-right/anti-immigrant politics had more play in Australia but the intensity of this really surprised me.

    I went through and read a lot of the articles from Australian papers on google news. This article from the Daily Telegraph (which i’ve heard has an anti-immigrant stance?) was the first of the initial raft that was more critical of the Lebanese role in the runup to this.

    There is no doubt that many regular users of Cronulla beach feel, as do many Anglo-Australians (particularly women) who come in regular contact with large numbers of Middle Eastern migrants, that Australia’s easy-going casual culture is under attack from young Middle Eastern males. The reports of women being abused for being immodestly dressed, or travelling alone, or drinking alcohol, are too numerous to be dismissed.

    The worrisome part is that the newest articles say gangs of lebanese people are out vandalising as some sort of retribution – and a white guy got stabbed. That doesn’t bode well, hopefully cooler heads prevail. Someone’s gotta realize how badly outnumbered they are.

    An Indo-New Zealander told me that the Indians are called “curries”.

    Don’t browns there call themselves curries too? Never knew it was that racist.

  16. Razib, could you provide examples? This is a pretty bold claim, and it also implies a kind of premeditation/strategy. I’m just curious, b/c my context is distinctly US-oriented.

    in the UK you have brown people, 1/2 muslims, 1/2 non-muslim. which group riots? now, granted, the muslims are not as well off, but i have been told (here) that mirpiris did not start off poorer than sikhs, who have prospered.

    in france, you have blacks and north africans. which group is the locus for tension with society? the source of the greatest tension with the white french?

    in the netherlands you have many immigrant groups, including christian ambonese from indonesia and hindus from suriname. but the problems occur on the moroccon-dutch fissure.

    in germany you have many groups, including germans from russia (nearly a million of them showed up in the past 20 years from the former soviet union, many do not know german well), italians, spanish, etc. but the turks cause the big problems.

    in spain you have muslims and non-muslims, the latter from latin america, the former from morocco. who blue up the subways in madrid?

    each one can have explains which mitigate the impact of islam, but taken together i think it makes a persuasive case that muslims are particularly indigestable. this does not mean that i think muslims are NOT absorbable, but, i think there are repeated dynamics that are occurring. many of these nations there are muslims from one ethnic group who come to do low SES tasks. unlike black africans or hindu surinamese these muslims espouse a religion which has had millenia of interaction with european christian civilization, and a historical claim to superiority. i believe that the juxtposition between their abject inferiority (educationally, economically) vs. a vi the mainstream in comparison to their idealized image of themselves as superior to the kufir is problematic. this does not mean that hindus or sikhs do not exhibit attitudes of superiority, but, they come from societies which are segmented and so can acclimate to minority status. anyway, that is a simplistic model, saudi salafi ideology spread via petrodollars in diaspora communities plays a role. the israel-palestine question plays a role. there is nothing that that is determinate, but an intersection of variables makes muslims particular problematic. i don’t think that’s a bold claim at all.

  17. ok, here is the sort of back-story of why i think non-neo-nazi ozzies have gone beserk: Muslim cleric: women incite men’s lust with ‘satanic dress’: A Muslim sheik told followers at a public meeting in Bankstown that women who were raped had incited men’s lust by dressing immodestly and only had themselves to blame.

    Sydney-born Sheik Faiz Mohamad, 34, a former boxer who teaches at the Global Islamic Youth Centre in Liverpool, made the comments during a lecture for more than 1000 people at Bankstown Town Hall.

    now, thinking women are ‘asking for it’ is not a muslim view, it is relatively common in many cultures, and the west itself has worked hard to move past that warped set of values. personally, i believe that in complex societies hierarchy and stratification is inevitable to some extent, and ergo, i also think patriarchy is also inevitable (my reasoning draws from work that i have seen which suggests that males can form larger stable groups than females, etc.). some muslims are promoting reactionary views drawing upon an interpretation of their religion. liberals who lambast christian fundamentalists expressing anywhere close to this attitude tend to be less enthusiastic on piling on these types. not all diversity is good (depending on what your values are).

  18. *mental note to update and re-read comments sections before posting

    Apologies for repeating info others posted on.

    Ananthan, yes, browns here took the sting out of “curries” and “curry munchers” as the Greeks and Italians took the sting out of “wog,” we made it our own.

    The Daily Telegraph is a strongly right-wing Murdoch paper that has long held anti-immigrant views. However, there has been a right-wing, anti-immigrant swing in media reporting and commentary recently. It’s extremely worrrying.

    There are reports of retaliation from Lebanese gangs in response, with about 60 men taking baseball bats to cars and a pub frequented by the Bra Boys club, whose members protested in large numbers yesterday. Turf War or Race War?

  19. Ananthan, yes, browns here took the sting out of “curries” and “curry munchers” as the Greeks and Italians took the sting out of “wog,” we made it our own.

    That is EXACTLY what the NZ kid said: “we made it our own.”

    I forgot to mention the Sikh gurdwaras in remote parts of the North Island (NZ). Sikh dairy farmers have done well there.

  20. Australia is fucked up. Has been for a long, long time. Southeast Asian refugees and immigrants have taken the brunt of it for a long, long time (see Romper Stomper starring a young and scary Russell Crowe) for a window on the madness. I wouldn’t go there if someone paid me.

  21. the aborgine community should yell, scream and tell all the white people to “go back to their country” then the rioters and their apologist justifiers will shut up

  22. First, I would request that no one ever lump Australia and New Zealand together when it comes to race relations or anything for that matter. I am from New Zealand, and while it is not perfect, the willingness of New Zealanders to embrace other cultures is one of its strengths. I think it is highly unlikely that you would ever see any violence in New Zealand like what is described in the article. I have found racism much more prevalant in the every day attitudes of Australians, but having said that, I think it is important not to generalize about all Australians. There are racists everywhere. I live in New York and I encounter racism. The idea that reading this article etc would then lead me to say ‘you couldn’t pay me to live in Australia’ is like me saying based on my experiences in say Texarkana I would never move to the US. Unfortunately, there are racists everywhere. I would just say the racists are a little more uncouth and blunt in Australia and less sophositicated than the ones on the Upper East Side who mistake me for a nanny…

  23. I don’t pretend to be an expert on the Leb/Australian community, but I believe they hail from an especially virulent, hardcore Shi’a background. Also if I’m not mistaken, this community spawned the horrible Dyab Abu Jahjah, who heads the horrible Arab European League. Jahjah moved to Belgium in the mid-80s after living thru the Leb civil war, where he is actively attempting to export to Belgium all the hideous notions that caused so much death and destruction in his home country.

  24. My Japanese ex-girlfriend now lives in Australia. She reports that she can’t go out on Pearl Harbor day – December 7, even though, as I recall, Australia was not attacked on that day.

    Meanwhile my Japanese wife certainly faces occasional racism in the US, but December 7 passes unnoticed.

    What’s with Australia?

  25. “but I believe they hail from an especially virulent, hardcore Shi’a background.”

    I think this is a pretty inflammatory thing to say without any basis of knowledge, as the speaker herself admitted.

  26. What’s with Australia?

    i don’t know, but the japanese were a far greater imminent threat to oz than they were to the us. they came might close to to cape york peninsula….

  27. Hmm..am I the only Aussie to de-lurk here? 🙂

    Ex-Lawyer et al, I would say exactly the same things about Australia as being very accepting of other cultures and I would also have said that these sorts of race riots would be unimaginable here…Makes you wonder…have I been living under a rock or is it a Sydney specific issue?

    It’s been really interesting to see the perceptions of Australia and Australian racism overseas. It concerns me that people overseas perceive Australia as an incredibly racist country full of regular attacks on our Southeast Asian population. I’ve lived here for about twenty one years as a Sri Lankan descended Australian and have had few if any problems with racism. While there is an undercurrent of racism, as you say, it’s generally pretty “average” racism that you’ll find anywhere from the UK to the US. There’s no hard and fast and every experience is different. Having said that there is a lack of minority presence in higher positions in Australian life – from boardrooms to politics though this is changing in the latter case. Mind you I will admit that a more subtle racism is now being preached by the media of late under the guise of “cultural” clashes.

    NZ has certainly dealt better with the whole issue of indigenous peoples than Australia has and so it’s possible that its acceptance of multiculturalism may be at a deeper level than in Australia. But is it really less racist? The current govt (from what I understand so please feel free to correct) is in coalition with parties such as NZ First.

    Alot of us from places other than Sydney have been caught unawares by this, and the response from Sydney-siders I know has been “It’s been a long time coming.” The rest of the country is in shock.

  28. But is it really less racist? The current govt (from what I understand so please feel free to correct) is in coalition with parties such as NZ First.

    for readers out of the know, NZ first is headed by a man of at least part maori origin.

  29. razib, you’re right about attitudes towards the Japanese. It’s more a generational thing here – the Japanese did attempt to invade and bombed Darwin during WWII. Alot of older Australians are still very racist towards the Japanese. Younger Australians tend to be less inclined that way..

  30. First, I would request that no one ever lump Australia and New Zealand together when it comes to race relations or anything for that matter.

    I am guilty of that conflation, and in my short stay I recognized that the two countries had very different cultures. I did also notice that lots of Browns from NZ had settled or were trying to settle in Australia, particularly doctors. That may be because there were more opportunities there.

    Someone remarked that NZ is what England was fifty years ago, before it became the fucked up multiracial, atheistic cesspool that it is today (just kidding 🙂

    I did also notice that the Maoris were in a markedly inferior economic postion in relation to the whites.

    What’s with Australia?

    Autralia’s treatment of the indigenous population easily rivals the American genocide/Manifest Destiny.

    Consider this: In 1872, when the first settlers arrived in Tasmania, there were 5000 aboriginals (who lived by hunting, sewing and making fire); they had little contact with mainland aboriginals and so were terribly isolated. They did not know what to make of the Europeans.

    By 1830, there were 72 left. They had been used for sex, slave labor, were tortured, mutilated, etc. They were hunted and their skins sold for govt. bounty. When the males were killed, the females were turned loose with the heads of their hubbies around their necks. Males were also castrated and children usually clubbed to death.

    When the last Tasmanian was killed in 1869, he grave was opened by a European, and a tobacco pouch was made from his skin as a souvenir.

    Prof. John Gray of the LSE has written quite a bit on aborigines.

    Incidentally, the aboriginals (who I met selling ‘native’ souvenirs) look like South Asians; I wondered if there was an ancient link.

    I also agree that its not appropriate to make judgements about all Australians based upon their history.

  31. Incidentally, the aboriginals (who I met selling ‘native’ souvenirs) look like South Asians; I wondered if there was an ancient link.

    well, there is an ancient link between all humans 🙂 but yes, there is a minimal link, especially in southern india. it seems that the abos of oz swept out of africa via the indian ocean route, and some of descendents of this migration left their genetic imprint in southern india. though the physical similarity is greater than any genetic one (i.e., last common ancestor was probably 40,000 years ago 🙂

    see the journey of man for more.

  32. razib: yes, Winston Peters is part Maori but has also made a number of inflammatory comments towards migrants in the past, hence the reference. He has been made Foreign Minister.

  33. yes, Winston Peters is part Maori but has also made a number of inflammatory comments towards migrants in the past, hence the reference

    does that mean racism? i.e., the pogromish behavior highlighted above is entirely different from the comments and positions of winston peters. the maoris are already at a disadvantage vis-a-vi the whites, i can understand why they would be suspicious of newcomers. that doesn’t mean i agree with that position necessarily, but, if i was a maori-first type i am not sure i would think any differently.

    it isn’t racist to want your country to be a certain way. that’s why pakistan was created. that’s why bangladesh was created. most of us here are immigrants or the children of immigrants, so we obviously empathize with the plight of those on the move and looking for better prospects. economics is not a zero sum game. but, sometimes people are marginalized by newcomers. oz & nz are cases in point.

  34. from the articles, it seems like the people rioting are used to being violent. violent people tend to use whatever is handy. when a group of violent (young) men get together, they tend to just be idiots of any stripe. i wonder if this episode has more to do with ijiots using a diffuse racism to their benefit than an organized racist campaign? this might just be a young male turf war between the surfer gang and the lebanese gang. i have read before about lebenese gangs in aus.

    i’m sure there is racism as part of it, but…a group of young toughs of any community aren’t representative of much beyond the tendency of young men to be total and complete morons (especially if girls and beer and involved)

    notwthistanding there might be more serious issues

  35. razib, you’re quite correct and I agree with you completely, it probably wasn’t the best way to argue the point. It’s more that NZ First, apart from being headed by a Maori, is an average nationalist, law-and-order anti-immigration party, and is in power-sharing. Ironically, NZF seeks to reduce compensation for Maoris from loss of native lands allowed under the treaty of Waitangi . We’ve had similar comments from Aboriginal leaders here. NZ is very similar to Australia in many aspects, though their response to indigenous issues are far superior to ours. My understanding is that your average rural NZ would be similar to your average rural Australian.

    And I may be totally wrong 🙂

  36. it isn’t racist to want your country to be a certain way. that’s why pakistan was created. My grandfather escaped from Karachi late. My mom preserved the skull cap till recently (not sure what happened to the burka). None of the desi countries are even nominally secular, except India. Theocracies are communal in the pejorative sense. And being communal is as wrong as being racist.

  37. Raju, you may have hit the nail on the head there.

    Recently in a Sydney suburb, rioting youths clashed with police for over a week. Clashes between beach gangs in Sydney have also occurred in the past, and this may be another manifestation with a new edge of racism. However, there are reports now that such riots are possible in Melbourne due to “simmering tensions” in the community. Given that the media did beat up the scheduled protest in Cronulla as being a possible “race riot,” it may inspire copy cat attacks down south.

    Middle-Eastern..ers have borne the brunt of racism since 9/11, though from what I gather in the US it’s desis have been frequently targeted.

  38. Gizzard, yes I know that, I was referring to Rage’s comment which pointed to Romper Stomper as a reflection of Australian society.

  39. By 1830, there were 72 left. They had been used for sex, slave labor, were tortured, mutilated, etc. They were hunted and their skins sold for govt. bounty. When the males were killed, the females were turned loose with the heads of their hubbies around their necks. Males were also castrated and children usually clubbed to death.

    When the last Tasmanian was killed in 1869, he grave was opened by a European, and a tobacco pouch was made from his skin as a souvenir.

    Pardon my language…but WHAT THE FUCK?! The more I see of humanity, the less I want to be human.

  40. And being communal is as wrong as being racist.

    fine lines. violence is wrong no matter what. but people like to hang with ‘their own kind.’ sometimes they want their nation to share common values, and yes, gods. there is not fundamentally wrong with that in my opinion, though i disagree with that attitude mostly because i’m a blasphemous fuck and diversity gives me greater leverage to play havoc.

    partition was a disaster in implementation, but do you think india would be an amicable nation if 35% of its population was muslim??? 50% in the northern half of the country???

  41. razib, it’s all about experience i guess. i’ve never had problems, having spent my early years in tasmania in an all-white school and neighborhood, with three or four kids from other ethnic minorities (greek and italian, plus one aboriginal). i never experienced racism until i went to high school in melbourne where there is a much higher immigrant population. i’m sure people growing up in melbourne would tell you something different depending on their background and circumstances. from what I know from other desis, i would still say australia is largely non racist. you provided an interesting link on race relations in oz, and i would agree that this undercurrent has hardened into something more sinister under the Howard government.

    in this vein, i’ve had the perception that the UK is/has been much more racist than Oz, from the perceptions of desis who’d lived there and come here.

  42. [sarcasm] I’ve got it – we could have desis in Australia all wear T-shirts that say: We’re not Lebanese! That would solve everything! [/sarcasm]

  43. *Incidentally, the aboriginals (who I met *selling ‘native’ souvenirs) look like South *Asians; I wondered if there was an ancient link. * *well, there is an ancient link between all *humans 🙂 but yes, there is a minimal link, *especially in southern india. it seems that the *abos of oz swept out of africa via the indian *ocean route, and some of descendents of this *migration left their genetic imprint in *southern india. though the physical similarity *is greater than any genetic one (i.e., last *common ancestor was probably 40,000 years ago 🙂

    Yeah, we basically learnt in sociology in high school in mumbai when we were studying Indian tribal groups that all the racial groups are present in India – negroid, sino-tibetan and australoid. Probably had to do with Australia being joined to the land mass that was Gondwanaland before it split up and drifted to the Southern hemisphere… hence you have the animals evolving differently and all that.