The New York Daily News reports today of one Karnail Singh, a Queens, NY resident who is currently recovering in Weill Cornell Medical Center’s burn unit since being seriously burned on October 28. How was he burned, you ask? Well, he hasn’t been convicted or anything, but it turns out Singh, 48 apparently set himself on fire while trying to set a deathtrap for his daughter-in-law by torching her basement apartment. The cause of his anger (according to fire officials): Singh claimed his daughter-in-law wasn’t sending money to his son in India. Oh, and he also also accused her of seeing other men. Thankfully Singh’s daughter-in-law Gurpreet Kaur, was rescued unharmed by firefighters who had to cut through metal bars on a basement window to get her out. In a weird twist of fate, as Singh was fleeing, he mistakenly set himself on fire. What goes around, perhaps really does come around.
Ha Ha all I can say is KARMA
This is scary….does it make a difference to morons like this that they are no longer in their villages? And that they cannot get away with shit like this?
Serves him right…reminds me of the fable where a man falls into a ditch that he dug for himself.
“does it make a difference to morons like this that they are no longer in their villages? And that they cannot get away with shit like this?”
Like OJ Simpson
sick. really sick.
It’s sad forgiveness is a concept “non-existent” today. “Let the one among you with no sin cast the first stone,” said a Palestinian Jew about 2000 years ago.
I hope there are not too many villages where someone could get away with this.
What’s scary is, there are probably more than you think.
Here’s one fix – if the wife dies of preventable causes while in the care of her in-laws, the in-laws should return the dowry with interest. This would remove the financial incentive for such a crime.
Furthermore, they should make a public acknowledgement that they had failed to take proper precautions for the care of their daughter in-law who died in such a horrible fashion. That would effectively serve as a blacklist even without admission of criminality.
Unfortunately, crimes against women would continue but at least this way the financial incentives for such crimes would be reduced.
You may say that it’s a case of karma coming back at ya, but there are way too many cases where there is no justice at all. Way too acceptable.
I didn’t realize bahu burning trend is catching up in the US. How sick does one have to be to do this?
this is utterly sick.. honestly people… not sending money to india..tell his son to WORK for his own damn self.. come on now.. being burned for that and seeing other boys…i’m sure he’s just an overexaggerating fatherinlaw with no moral conscience whatsoever.. yeah, like burning someone is justifyable… this guy wins the evil darwinian award…
Wow, goes to show you that people are just deranged. How does someone even think about creating a fire “death trap”. Obviously this guy wasn’t thinking at all, how is she going to send money back to India if she is dead? So obviously it must have been the fact that she was seeing other boys that bothered him more. (rationally thinking, but with people like this you never know). Now I have heard as much as the next guy about cheating in a relationship and I know some pretty nasty things have been done through the course of history, but trying to kill somebody it really just over the line.
The fact that he might have gotten away with it in India is scary. What kind of village, or culture really, would allow such repugnant behavior? I hope this guy gets locked away for a while and enjoys the “lifestyle” of prison.
hey hey hey– the father in law alleges she was seeing other people. It’s not necessarily the truth…I mean, this from a guy who doesn’t see a problem in setting his bahu on fire…
This story was in the news some months ago:
B.C. father guilty of killing daughter in fit of rage
People who kill either their daughters-in-law or their own daughters in these types of matters are psychopaths and should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law. So should those in their families who support them (especially relevant back in India).
Or they should be taken off the streets and quarantined in the relevant medical facility until their psychotic illness is addressed.
Either way, nail ’em.
It’s no secret that women are accused of cheating without any proof, or very silly assumptions are made. It could be for something as little as innocently having a male coworker drive her home and the father-in-law naturally assumed she was a whore /end sarcasm.
I heard about that Atwal case. Sickening. Then you hear stories of how he loved his daughter prior to. Did he really? I doubt it. She just may not have “defied” his orders until this point. Sometimes you find about who really cares about you when things are not so peachy. I really doubt a desi dad who truly loved about his daughter or daughter in law would go to such heinous measures… they might be upset, but would probably eventually come around. The people who do are truly and utterly depraved and see women as possessions, not people.
The issue of “honor killings” is probably more prevalent than one thinks. Now that many of the immigrants to more liberal Western countries are seeing their children growing up in such an environment, a culture clash becomes inevitable.
Police to target wave of murders in the name of family honour
Terrible. Absolutely terrible.
It’s not just in villages: I was always shocked at the ideas of my ex’s relatives. Oh, nothing so severe as abuse, nothing along the lines of that, but the ideas about women, their place in the family, giving gifts at weddings, the heirarchy of life! Very, very odd ideas for an educated group of people.
*The rates of female foetocide are not that different in educated and non-educated families in India, is my understanding, but I’m not sure about that data. It is awfully politicized.
Wow Vikram’s got a whole stack of references there. Good work, news hound.
i can smell a conspiracy theory here. my gut is that ms. kaur set senior singh on fire for his property back in punjab and when he survived, cooked up a story to save her ass.
Actually I got curious about whether this was a widespread problem. A couple of searches on google brought up a bunch of articles from around the globe:
Honor Killings In The News
This is the culture they want to preserve??
Allright, lets not generalize.
This is how ideas ossify. I do not exist to preserve culture, it exists to serve me. To traditionalists I say I’ll happily shed gender roles and casteism and forge a new culture within my family:
Well said Manish. Thank goodness for dudes such as yourself. It’s nice to have that support from guys.
It would be wonderful if more men would stand up for their wives and daughters, instead of raging and feeling ashamed (which seems to be the default attitude). Under pressure from relatives to “punish” for rumours about cheating or gawd forbid, fornicating, they should stand up for these women and say, “Who the hell are you to accuse my wife and spread such rubbish?!! I know her better than anyone else, and I trust her 100%. It’s none of your business, so beat it!” That’s the kind of attitude that needs to become more prevalent among both men and even some women, as well.
Manish you’re a real man, a real suitable man…now you ladies need to check him out, this guy sounds like a catch. Have those babies quick, fast & in a hurry!
i don’t even think there is one monolithic desi “culture” that is the problem here; many of the views i find truly disturbing are so foreign to what my family knows i don’t even consider those views part of my culture. when people come out with the most ridiculous things i just think, where the “f” did you learn that? i never really think, hey that’s my culture. bc its just not. the women in my family will kick your “a” too quick for that, and if they don’t, the men will kick your “a” right after. and the same goes for girlfriends/
maybe in some fashion culture has something to do with this man’s decision, but this is an individual man’s decision, and a bad one at that. that said, maybe thats a wrong analysis and their is a pattern of desi patriarchy that leads to these kinds of acts; maybe indian patriarchy at its logical conclusion? i don’t think so but thats just my view
there’s been plenty of times i’ve seen patriarchy in front of my face and its directed at a non-desi, and i feel as afronted then as any other time. it has boggled my mind too some of the ridiculous things i’ve witnessed toward desi women; there is this idea of chauvanism thats really upsetting and it would be laughable if it wasn’t actually being taken seriously
as a guy i think its way more money where your mouth is to stand up when women face oppression right in front of your eyes. it also way more satisying. you actually feel like a decent person. and now for some male-flagellation; i think that the fact men know they lack is what makes them sexist dickheads
This kind of thinking exists in almost all patriarchal societies. I have seen it with Indians, Arabs, mexicans etc etc.
Attitudes like these still make my stomach turn. I hear of men not going to their wives’ funerals because they are told that they cannot remarry if they do so. I hear of women who still have to shave their heads when they become widows. I hear of little girls neglected because their parents finally had a much coveted son after three daughters. I have seen weddings being called off because of dowry issues.
Scary that in 2005, this retarded old bugger can still think that he can do something like this and hope to get away. How was he going to explain it anyways? Where do people cultivate such warped thinking anyways??
Villages?!! Try Bombay, Bangalore, Delhi, or any other metro of your choice.
Looks like this Mr Singh took a bit of India with him to NY.
At this point, I have to post this link here. This is the kind of nonsense that occupies the urban Indian male mind.
The problem with such people is that they are obsessed with a) maintaining their own perceived position of power and superiority, and b) what “samaaj” (ie. ‘society’ or ‘the community’) will think.
It’s all about Ego.
For such individuals — and unfortunately there are many of them — their perceived status and “reputation/good name” in their social circles is more important to them than genuinely doing/thinking what is ethically, objectively correct, especially when a third-party is involved. They will regard certain aspects of “culture” as sacred, even if such concepts are grossly unfair to certain parties (women in particular) or in direct violation of whatever positive ideals their religion may teach them.
So in their own minds and very often in their outer conduct they basically become slaves to the opinions of others (rightly or wrongly) and the allegedly-unchangeable dictates of this vague, ill-defined, but all-powerful monolithic entity they term “samaaj”.
They carry on perpetuating such ideas and behaviours because at some level they think that their wider community condones it, either tacitly or explicitly, regardless of how malicious such attitudes may be from an objective point of view and regardless of the fact that such behaviour is illegal. They think they can get away with it because, along with the factors I’ve just mentioned, they basically think that they’re “above the law” and that such legal concerns are to be circumvented or ignored if they are contradicted by their own ideas and “samaaj”/”culture”. It’s basically an extremely arrogant, self-serving and indeed criminal mentality.
Hence bride-burnings, dowry-demands, honour-killings, forced marriages etc etc.
With regards to “honour-killings” specifically, despite the terminology, as far as I’m concerned “honour” (in the true sense of the word, ie. “integrity”) has absolutely nothing to do with it. A more accurate term would be “Ego killings”. These psychopaths are abusing women purely for the sake of their own egos. This kind of fake-macho behaviour — all to prevalent in many quarters of desi society along with a number of others as has already been mentioned on this thread — is pretty pathetic; it makes me wonder what kind of a loser can only feel “powerful” and “more masculine” if he has to dominate, disparage, or attempt to control women in order to do so.
FatMutonny,
That link was an astounding confirmation of what some people will do in order to curb progress. Absolutely sick…
I got disgusted at the story of the dowry incident where the man was called ‘innocent’. It is disgusting that thinking like this still prevails. I shudder to think of the hell the women in the families of these men must face on a daily basis.
Fatmuttony, that link was fucking unbelievable! I don’t think I’ve ever sworn on here, THAT’S how shocked I am! Insane.
Ladies, remember – just SAY NO TO FEMINISM.
Actually, just about every page on that site has ‘This is written by an insecure man’ plastered all over it.
Except maybe this one:
He’s right you know. And I’m hungry.
SaveIndianFamilies nutjob says:
I think we all know the answer to this one.
When Ashlee Simpson stops putting out that quality music.
FatMuttony:
Thank you so much for that link. I plan on saving it and showing it to as many people as possible.
I couldn’t get past the “Say No to Feminism” page
Until I found my way to the SOWRY (like Dowry, but asking the guy for money) page…
All I could say when I read it was, and I quote, “……………………..”
Tip of the hat to fatmuttony. Did some trawling of my own and found more such vermin loose on the web.
what I don’t get is how they can say this with a straight face:
and then turn around and say this:
erm. I’m no feminist, but I do think Feminism was (at its best intended) a movement to stunt gender bias…
Idiots. They all live in their mothers’ basements and are too scared to make eye contact with women.
“Idiots. They all live in their mothers’ basements and are too scared to make eye contact with women.”
DesiDancer,
Me too, I live in the basement too. I am too shy. I get nervous very often.
How did you found out my secret?
Joking aside…………..
The core of the problem is economics, who pulls the strings. Indian women are very vulnerable when it comes to their financial strength/ independence ……. However, it is not peaches and cream in West too. Let’s go over there, I need to go clubbing with OJ Simpson, gotta go.
Why is that?
I grew up in a very diverse, liberal community where (sometimes) activism would take on a very “keep up with the Joneses” patina, and Feminimism was less about equality and more about Man-Hating. I don’t hate men at all, and I don’t think it’s necessary to my stature in society to go to either extreme of kissing their asses or hating them to death. -I just got the ESPN2 version of Full Contact Extreme Feminism, so I generally wince at the word.
Interesting website link posted by FatMuttony. Quite amusing in a black-humour kind of way. And yes I agree with Bongsie about how those articles scream of pseudo-intellectual male insecurity and neuroses. You get a lot of that amongst some quarters of the desi older generation and amongst many desis in general (of all ages) back in India.
The writers of those essays since they seem to be living in the wrong part of the world (“Desi Born Confused Desis ?”) and should consider relocating to Riyadh or Kabul; they’ll find plenty of men there who agree with them. Including OBL. Curious how the authors seem to similarly want to blame the West for everything and — as one paragraph in particular explicitly stated — identify more with “Persia” and the Arabs.
Oh yeah — Hands up all those who couldn’t stop sniggering when reading the paragraph about “Opera Winfree”…..
I’m up for Full Contact Extreme Anything with Desi Dancer! Bring it on!
*amongst many desis in general
Referring to males in this particular matter, obviously
*The writers of those essays since they seem to be living in the wrong part of the world
Typo, should have said “The writer of those essays seem to be living in….”
Yum,
With that ring on her left hand, you’re more likely to get a Full Contact Extreme ‘Thappar’ if you keep talking like that 😉
Cool – I usually have to pay extra for that!
But most feminists wouldn’t call that ‘feminism,’ we call that immaturity. I proudly ‘label’ myself a feminist, (and I love men!) and I think not just every woman but everyONE should be a feminist. What does it mean except that you believe women should get the same opportunities and choices as men do?
I think it’s sad and kind of frustrating when stuff like this gets passed off as ‘feminism.’ It really just makes the whole movement look bad, and it makes it easier for society to slap the label of ‘feminist’ on a woman then ignore her or just write her off as a man-hating radical.
//end rant
I was just going to say the same thing Rupa! The extreme feminism thing seems more like a caricature – there is however, a nice modern alternative view. And yes, I think there are men feminists too, like Manish…. hope he doesn’t mind me labelling him as such… meant to be a compliment.
Rupa,
But that’s how most non-feminists view feminism as.
I keep hearing these assertions: Feminism is not really like that. Islam is really a religion of peace. Jihad really means the battle within self. Intelligent Design does not mean religious fundamentalism.
However, popular perception counts for more in real life than bookish definitions by the minority.
M. Nam
And yes, I think there are men feminists too, like Manish…. hope he doesn’t mind me labelling him as such… meant to be a compliment.
Not at all, I am a feminist just as I’m a humanist:
Sure, dude. And “liberals are crazy, conservatives are cruel, blacks are poor, Hindus are stoners and Gandhi was a freak.” All popular perceptions.
Wrong inference to Gandhi. You are mixing up popular perception of groups/classes of people with the popular perception of an individual.
Most people in the world view Gandhi as a great man. Now, was he a freak? Going by the textual definition of the word freak( Out of the ordinary, rare, exhibiting behaviour rarely seen in others) – Gandhi was most definitely a freak. Going by the popular perception of the word freak ( mentally crazy, un-predicatable, violent, sexually deranged etc etc), Gandhi was not a freak.
So, those who call Gandhi a freak are freaks themselves! By popular perception!
M. Nam
PS: Your anger shows.