SM tipster “Sirc” sent us the Village Voice review of a documentary that has been around for over a year, but seems to finally be opening to a larger audience (Oct 19, 2005 NYC, Nov 11, 2005 LA). The film is titled ‘Three of Hearts: A Postmodern Family.’ From the review:
This well-told doc follows nine years in the lives of a gay couple and the woman they invited to share their relationship. When we meet this happy threesome–Sam, Steven, and Samantha–they’re trying to get pregnant. In winning interviews spliced between suspenseful EPT tests, the assertively bourgeois strivers chat about their setup, their decision to marry, their spa business, their mix-and-match sex (“There’s never a feeling of being left out!”). Actress hopeful Samantha explains how her traditional Indian family absorbed the news.
Ummm. Wow. Trinogamy. I just imagined the sound of several desi parents dropping dead of heart attacks. Hell, I almost suffered a heart attack when I saw the trailer. That “horror-movie feeling” descended upon me. You know, it’s like when you watch a character on-screen with your eyes half covered saying, “Don’t do it. Don’t go in there. You are going to get knifed. Ooooh, they went there.” The “monkey wrench” in this case is the birth of a baby. How will it change the dynamic given that only one man is the biological father? In a perfect world without human insecurities a relationship like this could probably work. There is unfortunately no such perfect world. I don’t know how it turns out but I am pretty curious.
The filmmaker gives her quick take on the film and its coincidental political overtones:
We began filming “Three of Hearts” in August 1996, the night of Samantha’s 30th birthday party. When I got home from the first night of filming my boyfriend at the time, and later husband David Friedson told me that the senate had passed the Defense of Marriage Act that day, defining marriage for purposes of federal law as the legal union between one man and one woman as husband and wife. David pointed out that the love story I had elected to tell was highly political. And as we premiered in Toronto, the whole issue was exploding in San Francisco, Massachusetts and around the country. So even though our film is not overtly political, we take pride in the fact that it does have political overtones.We thank Sam Cagnina, Samantha Singh and Steven Margolin for their courage in sharing with us eight years of their journey.
The reviews of this film are glowing. Here is screening info.
Well, now I know the alternative to getting married!
Yep, and the Indian girl in the movie is a Canadian. 🙂
I’ll have to see how the movie turns out, before I post my “Gay men wanted” ad.
It does look VERY interesting, though. Can’t wait to see it.
2 white dues = 1 brown man. makes sense.
Confusion, confusion! Care to clarify, Razib saahib?
This is so Hectic!
You really have to be open minded to have a life like that. I can’t wait to watch the movie.
It opens up so many topics, for instance does not the one partner feel jealous if the other is getting too much affection and so on so forth?
How many people would be intrested in something like this?
Lest we forget, thousands of years ago in little old conservative India, Draupadi had five husbands.
I don’t recall any of the Pandavas being gay though…
We saw it the week it opened – and it was definitely conversation-provoking. Made me think about whether we are naturally manogamous people or whether that’s a societal convention, etc. Their relationship worked for many years – and in a perfect world, would probably have worked much longer – but as someone said, we don’t live in a perfect world.
Anyways, highly recommended. You guys must go check it out.
I’m curious about what her family said…no strict brothers to deal with a la Narinder Kaur???
How many people would be intrested in something like this?
Google around for “polyamory” and you’ll see exactly how many people are interested in that. 😉 Living in the Bay Area for 4 years, I met LOADS of people who were in various “unusual” relationships. I was always surprised how, even at boring Berkeley bbqs that my aspiring rock-star boyfriend would drag me to, I’d overhear things like “yeah, so after our daughter went to college, we decided to have an open relationship and it’s been great!” My old roommate went off to live in a “quad” household (2 men, 2 women, all involved with each other) and one of my best friend’s lovers is a butch dyke who will only have hetero sex with him.
This concept/lifestyle, which became very normal to me, produces nothing but shock and spitting disgust when I mention it in the UK, though. Maybe it’s a California thing. 😉
so are these two guys gay or bi-sexual? and is there anything such as true/pure gayness??
Yes 😉
Although there are apparently Eyes-Wide-Shut-type “exclusive” swingers parties in various luxury apartments and mansions here in the UK too (reports in the news, I hasten to add — I don’t have any first-hand experience of this !).
I also suspect some of the more “deliberately unconventional and scandalous” 2nd-Generation desis here in the UK get involved in those kinds of shenanigans too, although most desis here tend to be fairly conservative about the nature of their relationships — compared to this kind of thing, anyway. Although I can only comment on people I know or have met, so others may have had different experiences.
This is a freak show – I am sure drugs are involved. The woman involved must also have some sort of deep psychological scar. I could totally see a woman having relationships with multiple men at a time, happens all the time. But with two gay/bi guys?
But as far as I recall the Pandavas were not each others power-bottoms and also, they had some ground rules – when Draupadi was with one of the brothers, the others would leave them alone etc.
If you put it this way.
It is more like two white freaks equal one normal brown man.
I didn’t realize this was a documentary until I watched the trailer… All things considered, this is pretty strange and this is the first time that I have ever heard of anything like this. I can’t even imagine how complicated the realtionships must be inorder for something like this to work. How do you effectively split your attention between two people? Furthermore, how are you going to explain this to your kid? I can’t even imagine trying to explain this to a kid… “So mommy has two husbands who are homosexual?”
There are no rules in any relationship, period, except for those set between a couple (barring illegal activity, ofcourse). The few implicit societal rules we do get are based on a precedent. The only difference I see in this particular threesome relationship, is that it has no precedent, so it’s like starting from scratch with no protoype whatsoever, and that it is less societally accepted. Regardless, even relationships of 2 are difficult and take a lot of work, work-around, introspection, communication, patience and time. Any relationship is hardly ever ideal.
Kids need love, communication, guidance, and good role models/stability from their parents. With those things in place, they can be resilient against anything. I haven’t seen this movie so I can’t comment about this particular threesome household.
This “freak show” (as you call it) created two adorable little new yorkers named Siena and Sumit. I’d really hate for their grandparents to have to read more of the same crap they’ve probably already heard from judgmental fellow desis.
I don’t think drugs were involved, unless you consider a consummately fearless, uninhibited curiousity a “drug”. Who knows? I’ve experienced that feeling of unbelievable “fuck it all” bravery on a few very rare occasions and it IS narcotic. Semantics.
I really hate how people will see an unusual situation that involves a woman and then it’s automatically armchair-analysis time:
-she’s fucked up -she was fucked over by a guy -she fucks everyone b/c of what’s above
…ad nauseum.
Look. I’ll tell you who is psychologically scarred– the girl I went to school with, who got pressured into a threesome by her otherwise “good on paper” desi bf. THAT girl had issues, with boundaries, with confidence, with self-worth. THIS woman entered this arrangement on her own terms, and was treated better than most “conventional” wives, in a union which lasted longer than several of the marriages of my 2nd gen desi friends.
When we all have our shit together, THEN let’s knock people down, shall we? Until then, if someone wants to have a rational, mature, courteous, judgment-free conversation about this very specific and unique family, sexuality, societal norms and how humans can/should/could love…I’m down.
Eh, it’s not just a west coast thing. I actually have come across a few people either really into or exploring polyamory.
Here’s a brief explanation from a polyamory website:
Not everyone who is into is some sort of “freak”. There’s no specific type of person that this lifestyle appeals to. I find it disheartening that some people who come off as extremely openminded here are automatically dismissing an alternative sexual lifestyle without knowing anything about it. No one’s trying to convert you to anything – and no one said you had to. Maybe you can’t understand how someone could have romantic affection for multiple people at the same time. I’m not saying that I understand, or that I don’t – but to each his own. Hey, it’s all love.
this relationship might be healthy, but its a bit much to be dogging second gen desi relationships as a way to defend this situation. everytime someone (desi) does something unorthodox and someone (desi) gets all judgemental about it, people start dogging desis in general?
…ad nauseum indeed. I wonder what the Black Frank White would have to say about all of this: “Money and blood don’t mix like two dicks and no bitch Find yourself in serious shit”
Somehow I don’t think he had this scenario in mind. argus-nj, you too funny man…
I hope you don’t think that’s what I was doing– I just caught a whiff of the “Ugh, how not good and desi” and I gagged.
I related what I did b/c I was struck by the fact that I have several friends who got married a few years ago and are already divorced. Under five years. Some of them, under three. All over the spectrum btw, before you ask: arranged, love, interracial…blah blah blah.
My overarching point with regards to that was that it’s a bit rich to judge these three people who loved each other for quite a long time when we, normal, conventional, hetero desis poo smelly things, too.
No one’s perfect. There’s no need to allege “drugs” or psychological issues at a bunch of “freaks”, thanks.
F. Dulce said:
Romantic affection for multiple people simultaneously is quite plausible. But actually living through it openly, and on top of it raising a child in it is quite complicated.
Honestly, I think the women in this relationship has it easy. Its the two guys who have to live with not knowing, and the insecurities. And I have no idea what the psychological impact on the child would be, if at all any.
I only counted about 3 commenters who were sort-of dismissing it, but still open for discussion, and only 1 with scathing crticism. So, don’t be disheartened; the majority are open-minded to any new information.
With that being said, continue!!
No offense Anna, but I really I’m beginning to dislike the increasingly banal, not to mention specious reasoning of monogamy results in high divorce rates, 2/3 gay triangles and a baby-mule must work…
I’m not sure where all the impressions of closed-mindedness are coming from, so just in case, I want to clarify what my above quote means: No matter what the family scenario, whether it be 2 gay parents, 3 parents, 1 parent, etc, etc, so long as they are great parents and the chid has the above (quoted) factors, they will turn out great!
That cause-effect argument was not presented. As I’ve said before, relationships of 2 are hardly perfect. That’s also what Anna said.
I urge you all to stop passing jugement like provincial uncles and aunties and learn that relationships have many forms, many of which may be considered unconventional. After seeing this movie, I found it difficult to challenge the notion that love is indeed the foundation of this relationship. Sam and Samantha are loving parents who are deeply invested in their children. So what if mommy married two men?
thrill bill: and no offense to you , but that’s not what i said. perhaps it’s only christians who think of that “people who live in glass houses shouldn’t throw judgmental bricks” concept. my bad. or not.
when “normal” heterosexual people aren’t perfect, they shouldn’t look down on alternative lifestyles which involved loving, willing, committed people. hell, when ANYONE who isn’t perfect judges someone else, it’s lame.
and i love how everyone’s willing to talk out of their ass about this– i considered posting this before Abhi did, and i spent a few hours studying the situation.
the men weren’t GAY. the documentary footage shows both men saying they had been with women before and had enjoyed it.
samantha singh wasn’t a BABY MULE. the three partners were committed to each other for almost a decade before they even thought about having a baby. you don’t keep a uterus around for nine years, let it sleep between you and your “GAY” lovah in bed and otherwise dote on it, b/c eventually one day you might kinda wanna have a kid, and it would be useful.
i can’t believe i’m wasting my precious apple battery on this. 😉 this is so “satanic verses”-smacktalkin’. i.e. no one read it, everyone bitched about it.
and i urge YOU to note that not ALL of us are judging…some of us descendants of polyandrous civilizations (w00t Kerala!) are vigorously standing up for the right of others to love as they choose.
:+:
wow, i really AM back home in SF, aren’t i? 😉 i’m here, you’re queer, castro on monday? 😀
Hell yeah. The comments of 1 or 2, shouldn’t make us all a bunch of archaic tight-asses. There’s some good comments and questions above. (I was confused for a bit about the counter-attacks). Can we continue with the discussion, now, and less with the smoking aunty-ji-uncle-ji’s out of their holes?
Hating the game, not the players…My ancestors were polyandrous denizens of Travancore State.
Theen of Dils is still playing at the IFC theater in the Vest Willage.
Cool, cool. Would you or the other one ever become entrenched in a relationship permutation such as the aforementioned? I’m pulling a David Blaine, having written what I already know your answer is going to be, folded it up, and thrown it away in the garbage (the last part is my additon). Peace
I’m going to ignore your pre-judgement and answer the question, honestly. I probably couldn’t do it because I don’t think I am as secure as Samantha. What she did requires a high degree of self-esteem. I’m not saying I don’t have good self-esteem, but in my case,it would be definitely be tested, and I suspect I might break. My self-esteem is high enough to NOT be pressured into a guy’s cheezy porno fantasy threesome, but PROBABLY not good enough to sustain a loving relationship with 2 other people silmutaneously, where real feelings surface. I hate being the 3rd wheel, even with my girlfriends. That’s where I’m at right now, anyways.
Ms A N N A,
How are you? Been a long time since we talked.
I plead you to ask yourself why this girl allowed herself to be pressured. The anti-anti-normal behavior lobby is so vocal today that perfectly normal people are being forced into a guilt trip. The day is not far when the anti-anti-gay lobby mandates a try and buy program for kids, i.e. forced homo-sexual experience. The kids who refuse to participate, will be branded anti-gay.
You seem to buy the idea that this girl made a conscious choice. I do not agree. Even in her interviews she expresses serious reservations. Besides it is not as though she sought out the guys. I would say the guys tricked her, by befriending her and then gradually pushing her into what would not be otherwise accetable to her.
Yeah, all babies look cutesy, when they grow up into complete sociopaths, only then people stand back and watch in horror.
Dude, you are even further off the deep end than usual. Do you think this is part of a worldwide bisexual conspiracy? On second thought let’s make that a rhetorical question so that you don’t actually answer it.
That’s far-fetched and illogical, i.e. Will not happen.
I will watch the movie and see for myself.
Conspiracy theory? I would say argus-nj has just postulated an alternative that you’re just uncomfortable with.
Ang, thanks for you honest answer.
It actually was a conscious decision albeit one she made in her early 20s, when she was more impressionable (in her words)
MSNBC has an article on whether monogamy is dead …
Is monogamy dead?
Is it only me who sees the self-contradiction in this post?
Carrying this concept to its logical conclusion, wouldn’t it be fair to ask those who believe in this to not judge those who judge others?
Hey – it’s a free country. People can Draupadise themselves all they want. And all others can judge the Pandavas till the cows come home.
Judging others is an alternate lifestyle.
M. Nam
I have to agree with Ang here
We as humans are trained to think in a specific way. It comes from our education and practise of thinking inside the box. A red is for stop or danger and green is for all clear, try flashing a new color in there, you will see a few brains explode.
It takes a long time for us to grasp, analyze and accept anything new. Interracial couples, I am sure were not cool back in the day. Society tends to move a lot like the Indian courts, slow, but steady.
The biggest problem here is for the “regular” human mind to accept such out of the box ideas.
Who are we to judge their family unit? If it works, more power to them. I would venture to guess that the majority of posters were here were blessed enough to have a two-parent home growing up, so it might be easy to sort of shun any other lifestyle as “deviant” because it’s unfamiliar and strange. Their arrangement is unusual but it seems to be working for them (all comparisons to traditional family units aside), they have been together for years, have a successful business, and are raising their children. How is that different from what most of us want out of life? I can’t wait to see this movie.
[On a completely unrelated note, I kind of want my parents to see this movie so they’ll stop complaining about me. On the other hand it may backfire and they might assume this is my way of telling them that I wish to have two male bisexual partners simultaneously. (Like that time I got my mom the book Arranged Marriage.)]
I think we are mixing up issues here. First of all I find the idea of studying monkeys to dictate human behavior atrocious. Yes, some people may feel the need to experience multiple partners. If a woman says she needs to switch partners for the thrill, I say, go for it.
But see what happens in this case: – befriended by a white dude: at this point she is not even aware that this dude is gay or of the other dude – white dude asks her, what she thought of a polygamous relationship: she responds “what are you crazy?” – white dude introduces her to the other white dude – she has relationship with the other white dude: I assume it was one on one at first and she perhaps even wanted to be with other dudes at this point – the white dudes announce they are gay and moreover been partners of each other – she is shocked but accepts it – white dudes come out with full details of their plan of sexual music chair (three holes, only two …)
You see, she is gradually forced into this situation. She was young and by her own admission impressionable enough to be conned into what is clearly an exploitative relationship by two much older, slimy white freaks.
argus_nj, just watch the movie. Since you have no basis for your analysis, no one here is going to pay much attention to your comments. (Not that they will after you watch the movie either. However, then at least you will have something to refer to…)
That’s hilarious! Don’t bother trying to have a discussion with your parents, cuz they’ll automatically suspect you of havingg a direct affiliation with the discussion. If it’s a gay discussion, “Are you gay?”; if you comment about how cool a person is b/c they’re unmarried and happy with children, then you must want to be an unmarried parent forever; if you mention that so and so left their job and started up a great business, then “are you thinking of such crazy schmazy business?” LOL.
Please peruse the website of the movie. From the interviews and other snippets it is pretty much clear how it transpired. I made a couple of assumptions and mentioned them as appropriate.
Rupa writes:
There is no “we” here. It would be accurate to say: Who am I to judge their family unit? To each his/her own. Please don’t speak for me. I would like the freedom to judge others’ ass off.
Wrong inference. The public were not just judging the prostitute – they were going to stone her when Jesus intervened and said: “Those who have not sinned…”. This is the episode which translates into the modern, secular version: “People living in glass houses…”.
I can judge this threesome, but in a manner that does not violate their rights. I won’t stop them from carrying out their relationship, and if someone tries to, I will opppose them. But at the same time, I would not give this threesome the time of the day if their life depended on it. That’s my perogative as a free citizen. Don’t mess with it.
M. Nam
Are you sure about this? Wouldn’t you try to dissuade a friend who was being forced into some sort of situation under the garb of acceptability and openness?
Look what happened to Ms A N N A’s friend. She did not receive the support from her friends. She felt something was not right, but her friends browbeat her: “What, you don’t like threesomes? Who are you to judge other people? Don’t you know our forefothers the monkeys were polygamous?” etc. Eventually this poor woman basically got violated and permanently scarred for life.
No Mr Nam, I am not so sure I would not stop my friends from indulging dangerous cons, crooks and freaks. I will hug them, and assure them that it is perfectly ok to be normal.