I keep hearing about the growing “dish cities” in Europe and especially in France. “Dish cities” are named as such because they are predominantly Muslim areas where the residents keep to themselves and have television programming from the Arab world beamed into their homes via a satellite dish. The danger here is that this leads to an extreme, often self-imposed isolation, and a local set of laws and norms that often ignores the laws and cultural norms of the adopted country. Is it possible that such “dish cities” might eventually form in the U.S.? The Milwaukee Journal Sentinel reports on some young adults whose religious views guide them to skip the prom.
With prom season in full swing, Najeeb and her Muslim peers are learning one of life’s lessons: Principles matter more when something is sacrificed to uphold them.
Each year, many teen Muslims choose not to take part in one of the hallmark social events of high school. For them, staying true to their Muslim identity is staying true to themselves, no matter how hard.
Proms – a ritual of dating and intimate dancing that for some is associated with drinking and sex – conflict with Islamic beliefs. Islam requires Muslims to dress modestly, abstain from alcohol and avoid close contact with members of the opposite sex. Such interactions are considered haram, or forbidden.
Meeting these standards can be an especially tall order for teens driven by raging hormones, intense curiosity and a fear of alienation.
“It’s a challenge,” said Naba Mallick, 17, a senior at Divine Savior Holy Angels High School in Milwaukee, who didn’t attend prom last year. “To be the one who has stayed strong in religious beliefs, it’s a big deal.”
Since I live in Los Angeles, I am always looking at stories in terms of a possible script for a Hollywood movie. I am thinking about updating Footloose, but with Muslim characters.
To be clear, not all young Muslims skip prom. And among those who do, they are not alone; many conservative Christian families also frown upon dancing and dating among teens.
Alas, it just isn’t easy for young studs to deal with this kind of thing:
Living in America and holding true to his Islamic beliefs are a delicate dance for Zeki Arain, a junior at Brookfield Central High School.
Arain, 16, sometimes struggles between being a teenage boy and a practicing Muslim. With thick dark hair, pale skin and a sharp wit, Arain knows girls have been sweet on him. He’s had crushes, too.
The first time I heard this joke, it cracked me up.
Q: Why don’t Methodists have sex standing up A: They don’t want the neighbors to think that they’re dancing.
I abstained from going based on nerd principles. sigh it just seems that the nerd ideology just isn’t holding up today…
This is all very amusing, but I think there’s a serious issue here, and it isn’t just confined to Muslim, Christian, Hindu, or even religious kids. The whole concept of prom is too strictly defined and is bound to leave large chunks of people isolated. Isolation breeds all kinds of problems. It could take the form of religious fundamentalism, ethnic separatism, or something else. As usual, I’m in favor of mixing it up. Variety gives people options, and options keep people together.
I didn’t go my high school’s equivalent of the prom, pretty much because it was entirely too inconveniently placed and I lived way the hell in the other direction. But I think my weird school did a good job of adressing both of the principles of the thing(dating and dancing):
1) Encourage kids to go in groups, instead of just as dates, and let them take pictures as groups. The prom should be about celebrating your friendship and your time together, not forcing you into a precut slot for dating. If you’re ready to go with a date, great, but you shouldn’t have to or feel bad for not having one. It was very common for groups of girls to go to our formals and cruises together, and that would work just fine for these girls.
2) Encourage all kinds of dancing, not just slow dancing or even pair dancing. Even now, when I go clubbing with a crowd of friends, the dancing is hardly strictly by pairs. Some teenagers just don’t yet feel comfortable holding hands and coordinating at close quarters with a member of the attractive sex (same or different.) That doesn’t mean they don’t want to shake a tail feather every now and then. This is one reason why I don’t mind the wider adoption of bhangra type dancing, exoticism and cultural appropriation issues aside, because the music and dancing style is less demanding of sexualized pairs.
3) Have other activities besides dancing. People can get all dressed up and hang out without having to dance. Card tables and board games are the classic alternatives. I recentely went to the absolute best party I have ever been to. It was in a big group house, and each room had a theme. Plenty of rooms had good old fashioned dancing, but one room was it different. It belonged to a manic sewer who had made dozens of felt covered foam stuffed “rocks.” They looked like rocks, but they were stuffed and plush. Think muppet rocks. You have no idea how much fun it is to spend half an hour throwing rocks at your friends, without fear of hurting them. There are lots of things like this you can do.
Whether their parents are putting the pressure on them or they themselves aren’t ready, there are plenty of reasons why lots of teenagers (not just immigrant teens or other margninalized groups) might not fit perfectly into the idealized American Teen model of dating and socializing, and I’m all for easing the presure crush on them.
/end Saheli’s weekly rant in comments. 🙂
I love your comment. I am Muslim (not that it matters) and I do want to go to prom. Not for the dancing but because its a night I can chill with all my friends, who aren’t muslim. Your prom sounds absolutely amazing! Love the whole idea of it. Do you know where they got the fake rocks from coz i can think of a few people who would love that idea.
So glad i found this site.
Ta.
Ethnic ghettos have always existed. The difference today is that via electronic communication, people can stay in touch with their native homelands. Previously, only the first generation kept the ‘homegrown’ culture, the following generations would slowly integrate into the adopted homeland.
This process isn’t about assimilation, but also bringing your own unqiue flavor to the new country and adding to the collective. Just like Italians, Irish, Chinese, South Asians, Latinos and other communities have done so and continue to do so here .
With almost complete cultural self-isolation, both sides stand to gain nothing new.
The claim that earlier communities integrated faster than today is a myth. Before Scandanavians in the Dakotas could form entire communities where nobody had to speak anything other than Swedish or Norwegian. That’s harder to do now, and even if you try mass media intrudes. Also, with previous generations of migrants, there was a high degree of back migration. Italians would come here, work, live with their compatriots and then go back home at the end of their lives.
Before Scandanavians in the Dakotas could form entire communities where nobody had to speak anything other than Swedish or Norwegian. That’s harder to do now, and even if you try mass media intrudes
bull. have you been to california?
I agree, I abstained from going based on nerd principles too…oh well…sigh
also, a large subset of scandinavian immigrants banned their children from speaking the old country languages (i know 1st generation kids of those immigrant families). this sort of aggressive assimilation is generally considered pretty weird today.
I am thinking about updating Footloose, but with Muslim characters.
Get this made and my ten bucks are yours.
Sounds like a perfect Lollywood project.
Razib – there are huge volumes of sociological research on this. Kids in latino ghettos aren’t acquiring English any slower than generations before – they all pick it up from American TV. None of them watch spanish language TV exclusively, and even spanish language TV has a fair amount of english on it. I’m not saying that people can’t go without learning English, I’m just saying that the research doesn’t show that this is happening any more than it used to. We just forget the large ethnic enclaves that have always existed here.
We just forget the large ethnic enclaves that have always existed here.
yes, sure, but you must also know the jeremiads against these groups that occurred, starting with franklin’s attacks against the german communities in pennsylvania. nothing like that occurs today, and my personal experience (i have young siblings) is that difference is not just accepted, it is expected.
i grant that there are similarities between the past and the present, but i also assert there are sharp differences. the push for public schooling from “progressives” was partly to destroy the power of the catholic and german speaking school systems. there was no sanguine acceptance of a swedish la raza among the WASP elites.
To touch on the language, assimilation issue. I’ve noticed here in Toronto, there are a vast amount of immigrants who do go about with a barely functional amount of english. These people rely on people of their ethnicity to help them out when they go into stores or on the street. I’ve been asked to speak in Hindi or Punjabi plenty of times (even though I can’t) or I see parents relying on their children to translate.
These people only watch Zee TV on satellite or the multicultural channel we have here for news in Hindi. Obviously living in a predominately English-speaking society you are exposed to it, but for people who isolate themselves within their own communities its not hard to come here and never speak a word of english. Especially in Toronto where all the diasporas are so HUGE, all you need are to visit South Asian businesses for your day to day needs and get your kids to do the rest for you. (This is also assuming that they don’t work)
another quick comment. I didn’t attend my prom either because I had transferred to a new school and didn’t really feel comfortable spending a whole night with people I didn’t know, but I heard (and saw pictures) of a muslim girl from my old high school who went to prom.
she had made her own dress and made a special hijab as well. it was very moderate, tasteful, and quite pretty as well. i think there are ways for people to avoid the whole sexualization of the thing, though it might be different in Canada. prom is big, but it’s not as big a deal as it seems to be down in the US.
islam is a backwards culture and those girls in the articles are too stupid to realize that their “religion” is oppressing them. it’s just a dance but no, those who go are “loose” and “sluts.” lol prom is a part of dominant america’s culture. if you don’t like it, get the hell out.
It’s not just a dance when well-off kids book hotel rooms.
islam is a backwards culture and those girls in the articles are too stupid to realize that their “religion” is oppressing them. it’s just a dance but no, those who go are “loose” and “sluts.” lol prom is a part of dominant america’s culture. if you don’t like it, get the hell out.
i pledge alleigance to the flag and the prom for which it stands? 😉
we’re intellectualizing the most idiotic topic. i can’t believe this prom post is being debated with big words and passionate viewpoints. we’re using terms like ethnic ghetto and isolationism!? i’d have thought i’d just read a barrage of funny comments and wisecracks; i guess i overestimate the SA community. come on!
SAs, muslim or hindu or whatever generally miss the prom anyways, not due to their religion or culture but due to our geekiness and/or body odor!
islam is a backwards culture and those girls in the articles are too stupid to realize that their “religion” is oppressing them. it’s just a dance but no, those who go are “loose” and “sluts.” lol prom is a part of dominant america’s culture. if you don’t like it, get the hell out.
are you kidding? my muslim friend couldn’t go because she had a mustache and pizza face! even she admits it now and laughs!
calm the braininess and debate and intellectualized racism! damn!
I’m sure that for every member of the Muslim community that doesn’t go to prom, there are several who do and have a great time with people of all cultures.
For those who don’t want to partake in this spring ritual, it’s their choice, of course, but their neighbors may find it hard to reach out to and understand a group of people who don’t want to associate with their community.
Junior prom was a blast. I didn’t attend senior prom because my book sounded more interesting. Nerd.
Anupa, You wrote “she had made her own dress and made a special hijab as well” Well, I dont understand why some Muslim South Asian girls in the US have started wearing hijab. Hijab is an arab head dress for women. ( Mary wore a hijab and a lot of orthodox christians in the Middle East/ Mediterranean area wear hijab). Religious desi muslims should wear the dupatta or the chaddor or even a burqa if they want to dress according to Islamic standards. I have had heated debates with girls whose families are from Delhi or Lahore, who are running around wear hijab. No one in India wears hijab. Desi women wearing hijab is a sorry arabisation of the desi muslim culture. (though some will argue that the chaddor itself is persian). First it was the arabic names, now its the dress. Next they will stop eating daal and start eating hummus. Maybe the religious desi muslim men will put on the Arab head dress for males. ( though the fear of being arrested/lynched might prevent them)
Al Mujahid
As Pakistanis in the West adopt a religious identity over an ethnic one they are bound to leave behind those cultural traits that associate them with other Desis and seek solidarity with other Muslim groups. The Arabisation of Desi Muslims in the UK/USA/Canada is inevitable as they latch onto what is considered the standard external uniform of the religion which originated in Arabia.
I grew up in an area with a fair amount of Pakistanis living side by side with Indians. In those days, you very rarely saw British-Pakistani girls and women wearing hijab or burka. That has totally changed and now when I visit that area it is the norm. The burka is quite common there too. Its been that way since the Rushdie affair, Pakistanis feel closer to Arabs and other Muslims than they do to Hindus or Sikhs and they want to express that. In a couple of generations I doubt we will have much in common in the UK anymore. Its a noticeable trend. I dont see why you think its unhealthy. People have to form their own identities and if they feel comfortable with it thats fine.
Al Mujahid
Another factor affecting this trend is the formation of a pan-European Muslim identity, which is mostly Algerian, Morrocan and Turkish. Pakistanis are increasingly seeing themselves in that context, rather than a Desi one, which is fairly unique to Britain, there are miniscule Indian communities in mainland Europe compared to England.
Not speaking for Al Mujahid, I also think it is unhealthy because it is an artificial co-option of another CULTURAL practice, at the expense of existing cultural ties. It is much more important for South Asian Muslims to maintain their cultural ties with South Asian Hindus, Sikhs, etc. than with Arabs. Why? Simply because they have to live next to each other back home, and because it is necessary for political clout, communal well-being and unity in the diaspora. Certainly Muslims all over have a RELIGIOUS connection but nobody is saying stop being Muslim. Anyone from UP/Bihar/Hyderabad (or anywhere else in S. Asia really) knows how much Islam is a part of India’s (and obviously pakistan’s) history, geography, landmarks, language (“Hai Allah”), culture, and people. But Muslims abroad rooting out and replacing their cultural connections is as artificial as taking the Islam out of India (or destroying “foreign” mosques, a la Ayodhya).
I have desi friends who spent time in Saudi Arabia, and you may be surprised to learn that many many Arabs look upon desis like swine…(but they LOVE white foreign investors). They don’t like you! But Desi proponents of Arabic culture have no idea.
The line about daal vs. hummus is quite apt.
correction to my first post:
Its been that way since the Rushdie affair, SOME Pakistanis feel closer to Arabs and other Muslims than they do to Hindus or Sikhs and they want to express that.
I was generalising, but, you know, talking about a trend.
vurdlife
I think those matters will fade over time in the West. For example, in the upcoming general election, Muslims feel more comfortable grouping themselves together politically and in mainstream society, than they do having a ‘South Asian’ identity. On a grassroots level there is solidarity, freindship etc, but in terms of collective identity, thats the way it is going, and if Pakistanis feel safe and comfortable that way, I dont see what the problem is. Its up to them to create an identity which they feel comfortable with. Muslims in the West have had a tough time in the last few years, the religious aspect of their identity has felt vulnerable, so they want to assert that over ethnic ties. I can understand that. I dont think it is neccesarily a bad thing.
Also I am talking about Pakistanis in the UK mostly, and back in Pakistan there isnt much Hindu or Sikh influence left in their Motherland. Pakistanis are the largest group of Muslims in the UK, about 70%, and ties to Hindus and Sikhs dont mean as much to them as they might to a Bihari or UP Muslim who as you say, is part of the Indian fabric. So its not such a loss to distance themselves from Indians.
I know so much about this because one of my best friends, who is Pakistani, is writing a thesis on this very subject. Its really interesting. He also says that there is alot of Saudi Arabian money that funds mosques and Islamic institutes in England and this has an influence too.
Punjabi Boy, As I understand (I dont know for a fact) that when history is taught in schools in Pakistan, the history starts from 7th century Arabia with Muhammad and the invasion of Sindh by Kasim in the 8rth century. The period before that is called ‘jahiliya’ ( age of ignorance) and is not taught at all in schools. So the people who are literally living in the ruins of Harappan and the Mohanjadaro civilization are not taught about it. I find this criminal. This is the problem with the Arabization of culture.
Punjabi Boy’s friend is probably right about who’s funding Muslim things in the UK — I was recently working with a proposed Muslim arts/culture festival, and they kept looking towards the Middle East for funding and ideas, when I was assuming British Asians would make up the bulk of the participants. Apparently the Saudis wanted to throw some money their way but thought there were too many Asian members on the board. (!!!) So much for Islamic solidarity. I also attended a Muslim Eid tea in Parliament last winter…I have to say it was quite bizarre (for me) to see Africans with full-on traditional formal headdresses, Iranians in robes and turbans and Asians in suits, all together in one room but obviously separated by language and culture. I just did a documentary with a British Pakistani about a yearly Muslim festival in the Punjab, and other Muslims he’s shown it to get really riled up because it’s not the way THEY practice Islam. So there’s still huge cultural gaps, I think.
A couple of comments coming from an American South Asian Muslim perspective. “Desi” Muslims don’t look at being “Muslim” as being “Arab.” Most of us are well aware of the discrimination and contempt that many Arabs (many not all) have towards non-Arab Muslims. However, you will recall thag the first enemies towards Islam were Arabs themselves so this is not a surprise. This fact actually also emphasizes the universality of islam for us in a sense.
Also another subtle fact that you fail to realise is that a lot of the “conservative values” that desi Muslims hold are actually expressed not because of Islamic doctrine but also out of desi values. In fact a lot of desi Muslim kids here in America at least on a social level seem to be more desi than their more relatively assimilated Hindu counterparts. This defintely has its negatives. For example in Bengali Muslim culture, its okay to treat girls and women in a second hand status. Matter of fact there is a very false saying that is attributed to hadith which states something along the lines of “A husband foot is a wifes altar”. There is no hadiths or Quranic sura sating this but I beleive this is found in Manusmriti.
Theres also the factor that in a growing age of globalisation and the fact that “culture” is now bought and sold on the market and as desi muslims grow up further away from their homelands that they start to seek new identities that best reflect their reality.I mean i have friends from various backgrounds but because of politics and world views I associate with american black muslim brother and sisters, Arab, albanian, the growing Latino muslim community here in NYC, and of ourse desis. That dont mean I dont have sri lankan or indian friends or anybody else for that matter.
Anyways Peace
This defintely has its negatives. For example in Bengali Muslim culture, its okay to treat girls and women in a second hand status. Matter of fact there is a very false saying that is attributed to hadith which states something along the lines of “A husband foot is a wifes altar”. There is no hadiths or Quranic sura sating this but I beleive this is found in Manusmriti.
christ, so all the retrograde tendencies about desi muslims is cuz they are brown, islam is pure as white sand? whatever.
i think hinduism is as hilarious as the next religion, and find caste abhorrent and some of the anti-female traditions rather repulsive. but, you can find the same jizz in almost any religion. as far as islam, female witness is court is devalued and they don’t inherit as much. oh wait, i’m sure that isn’t “true islam,” probably something picked up from persians (don’t get me into conflicts about wife beating between “authorities”)….
(i wouldn’t pull this shit, but as an equal opportunity atheist, when i see folks trying to disavow any negatives about religion A and pin all the blame on Culture 1, of which a portion intersects with religion A, and also foist negatives in particular on the !A portion of Culture 1 is rather repulsive)
I just want to say that everyone has their own experiences and so I cant generalise to an American context. I also dont want to say anything definitive because everybodys experience of their identity is different. I dont want to step on any toes with my observations. I am just observing things as I see it as a British Punjabi Sikh who grew up alongside Pakistanis in a time when there was an ‘Asian’ identity that united all religons.
What I can say is that is changing, and Pakistanis are increasingly priveliging their religion as their primary source of identity within the context of the UK. This inevitably involves a distancing from Hindus and Sikhs, and also involves a certian Arabisation of themselves as they seek to unify with Arab, Turks and other non Pakistani Muslims in the UK. This is something that has been a trend for a while, since the 1990’s, but has quickened since September 11th.
It also means that the primary ‘minority’ is thought of as the Muslim community in much mainstream discourse, and to a certain extent that marginalises non Muslim Desi’s from the consciousness of society as a whole.
peanut gallery
Hi. Asian arts festivals and melas are one area where the Asian identity will persist. Because these things belong to Desis of all religions, Sikhs, Hindus, Muslims, they are above identity politics. Alot of mainstream Britain, though, thinks of them as exclusively Muslim, because they tend to forget that being Asian is a composite thing, but that is their ignorance. That is a side effect of the prominence of Islamic identity in national discourse.
It is in these areas that the unified Desi identity can assert itself.
christ, so all the retrograde tendencies about desi muslims is cuz they are brown, islam is pure as white sand? whatever.
i think hinduism is as hilarious as the next religion, and find caste abhorrent and some of the anti-female traditions rather repulsive. but, you can find the same jizz in almost any religion. as far as islam, female witness is court is devalued and they don’t inherit as much. oh wait, i’m sure that isn’t “true islam,” probably something picked up from persians (don’t get me into conflicts about wife beating between “authorities”)….
(i wouldn’t pull this shit, but as an equal opportunity atheist, when i see folks trying to disavow any negatives about religion A and pin all the blame on Culture 1, of which a portion intersects with religion A, and also foist negatives in particular on the !A portion of Culture 1 is rather repulsive)
I would argue that your attitude is repulsive. I said being brown and desi and reconciling it with Islam definitely has its negatives. But it also definitely has its positives.A lot of ways of expressing the Ultimate Reality wouldn not be known to Muslims if we didnt have Hindu and Buddhist cultural history ingrained in our culture.
Yes I would argue that all the retrograde tendencies are due to not reading the Quran and being molded by certain “desi” values that are sexist. These values help to shape how we see the Quran. But this is chaniging as we speak.
You do know that athiesm is a belief system and is just as laughable as any other belief system right?Most people dont take athiests seriously (agnostics sure but not atheists) they are the secular equivalent of religious fundamentalists.
Punjabi Boy
Nah I feel what youre saying but at least in the american context it dont make sense for people who are Muslim to stick with desis primarily. We see a whole nother world when we see other muslims. But the reality is that most desi muslims stick with desi muslims for the most part. Maybe in another 5-10 years in post 9/11 America things will get to how they have gotten in the UK whether thats good or bad is up to you to decide.
Yes, yes. Most people don’t take science seriously either. It is the secular equivalent of creationists. When we fly in an airplane, we wish, and it just happens.
Medina
You can say what you like about atheists, but it is nonsense to try and bracket them as being ‘fundamentalist’ with all that that implies. I am not an atheist, but I am glad they exist, because in matters of religion, they have in-built bullshit detectors which are usually very bias free and healthy. When I hear people denouncing them as ‘fundamentalist’ it means they have had a raw nerve touched. Atheists dont go around torturing, burning, bombing, oppressing and killing for their beliefs.
And dont bring up the example of the communists, they werent atheists, they believed in the God of Marx and Stalin.
razib
Keep on brother!
Prom is a party, not a place to play board games. At most high schools, only about half the eligible students end up going. It is expensive and frivolous. The fact that many Indian students go is not that unusual; many also do go. We should stop generalising, not everyone thinks brown=nerd. I went to prom and had a great time, so did all my Indian friends.
I think that all too much attention is paid to prom in the high school setting. Movies and literature have made it this do or die event with long reaching implications into life, but it’s really just a dance. At your ten year reunion, it’s not going to matter very much whether or not you attended prom. High school students should pay more attention to forming lifelong friendships.
I’m confused. . .it seems like it is being suggested that woman wanting to adhere to what has been prescribed for her in the ways of “hijaab” must do it in accordance to what is traditional and consistent with her ethnic identity, otherwise she is confusing islam with arabization?
That’s a pretty unfair accusation. Looking at any of the guidelines outlined by various scholars, who have far superior knowledge and study on this topic than pretty much anyone who would take the time to post to this website, the hijab/chador/pardah. . whatever, should cover everything but the face and hands, and should not be transparent so that the color of the skin is discernable through the fabric, and should not be overly ornate or showy so as to attract attention. There is no stipulation for style of the covering as long as it meets this criteria.
Im not at all ashamed to be a Desi, but the way I wear my hijaab or dupatta is definitely in a way so that the above criteria are met, inshAllah. Does that make me an Arab wannabe just because i’m not wearing shalwaar-kameez and draping a thin strip of chiffon on my head (and only during prayer and recitation of Qur’an)? To me it sounds like the harshest critics of hijaab are those who really don’t understand it’s purpose and the imaan boost one gets from wearing it. It’s more to do with a closeness to Allah(swt) than wanting to be an Arab. Yes, I want to learn Arabic. . but to be able to read and comprehend the word of Allah as it was intended, and not to be like my Masri and Saudi girlfriends.
I can enjoy daal and chaat masala AND shawarma and foul medamas. . .I like Thai food too, is that wrong?? Why should I have to go one way or the other? My “culturally Muslim” desi friends are okay with short sleeves, namaaz only when they feel like it, and bhangra on chand raath. I’d rather strive to cover myself, make my daily 5 prayers, and bhangra in the privacy of my home but taraweeh on chaand raath instead. Does that make me a bad Desi?
This is just an off-topic thought, but reading old threads like the one above (which I hadn’t read before) and stumbling across yet more of Punjabi Boy’s comments keeps reminding me how much his valuable and much-needed contribution to this blog is missed. I’m sure many other long-term SM commenters will agree with me.
Christina i think you have a very good point.
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so right . i was supposed to go to my sophop but declined becuz it just would not look good me in my shalwar kamez and all other people in gowns. i would look like an idiot even though i will forever remain heart broken
Nice article