Gautam Malkani, the author of Londonstani, has an Op-Ed in today’s New York Times that contrasts the atmosphere at the recent London Mela — a Brit-desi music festival — with the narrative of British South Asians as disgruntled and uninterested in assimilation. Malkani describes a desi culture that is truly British, and the improvements in understanding and exchange between Brit-desis and non-desi Brits — points that are often made here by members of the Sepia Mutiny UK massive like Jai, Bong Breaker, Red Snapper, Midwestern Eastender, and esteemed visitors like Sunny from Pickled Politics.
You’ll want to read the whole article: it’s short, well-written and chock full of observations and interpretations that I am sure will provoke many reactions. Here are some of the key paragraphs:
… When I was growing up in Hounslow in the 1980Â’s, these festivals used to be parochial, ethnically exclusive events. But in recent years they have become racially diverse. More important, they are no longer really festivals of South Asian culture; they celebrate British South Asian culture.
Those who stayed at home, however, were given a very different view of the state of multicultural Britain. The weekend newspapers were crammed with apocalyptic warnings about Britain’s failure to integrate its South Asian youth into mainstream society — a failure that, in light of the recent foiled terrorist plot, again appears to have left young, British-born South Asian men so disenfranchised that they are prepared to carry out mass murder against their fellow citizens.
Since the London bombings of July 7, 2005, conventional wisdom has held that when it comes to racial integration, Britain has botched it, and that our long-standing policy of promoting multiculturalism has kept us from sustaining a common, over-arching culture and national identity toward which different races and religions can feel loyal. Today it is widely accepted that there has been a trade-off between the promotion of diversity and the nationÂ’s social cohesiveness.
ItÂ’s a pity that so few of these columnists ever attended a summer mela or have any feel for our thriving desi beats scene.
It may seem absurd to focus on British South Asian hip-hop artists in the context of the threat of planes being blown out of the sky, and there are of course differences between the experiences of British Pakistani youth and British Indian youth. But because our policy of multiculturalism sometimes appears to have failed so spectacularly, we need to recognize the underappreciated — and underreported — ways in which it has succeeded.
Again, do read the whole piece. It’s an important perspective to put forward, not least for Americans who are just now tuning into the dynamics of South Asians in Britain and doing so through the lens of “homegrown terrorism” and media reports on extremist imams and alienated youth. I will be curious to read the reactions from our UK contingent to this article, as well as from everyone else.
Back off?Huh, was Gautham really that offensive?
From the FAQ:
The last thing we want is to bully people who are not directly South Asian out of participating here, especially when like Midwestern Eastender they are so involved in the culture and such intelligent and thoughtful participants to the conversation here.
Also, not to belabor the point, but your earlier description of the site “by and for American and British Indians” and your observation that the pictures on the masthead are all of brown people, are two entirely different matters. We consider ourselves members of the South Asian diaspora, nothing more nothing less.
lets keep this focused on whats important, facial hair stylings such as; the long-lined sideburn; the whisp goatee; the soul patch; the out-line beard
that doesn’t make it ok, dude. I don’t know about the “we” bakwaas, but speak on behalf of your own sensitivities, and not on behalf of mine or anyone else’s.
And even if our sista across the pond does find desi culture cheesy… what of it?? Break out crackers and deal with it.
Although Guatham’s comment (post #100) was a bit too sensitive on his part, I think SM Intern’s response (#103) was somewhat harsh and seems based on having a friendship with Midwestern Eastender and coming to her defense. Personally, I don’t find the desi melas in the UK cheesy, but I respect her right to her views. Gautham shouldn’t be bullied off this forum either.
that was very gouda sahej.
but that Intern guy is giving me the cheddars.
Jai:
Thank you for your thoughtful comments (posts # 81 and 83). As usual I agree with what you say. I just wanted to emphasize that I feel it’s precisely the creativity within the musical scene and musical culture that has been nurtured by the UK Sikh youth that sets them apart from other diasporic desi groups (although on further reflection, the Indo-Caribbeans have also done similar things within their own arena). You mentioned British Pakistanis, and that in your view part of the problems they face result from too much adherence to ancestral culture…but I don’t think it’s language or culture per se that is getting them into trouble, it’s religious extremism…something that transcends Pakistani culture itself (which at heart is related to other forms of northern desi culture). I do agree that various other immigrant groups have also nurtured their ancestral culture to various extents…but for me, the litmus test is, are you being CREATIVE and INNOVATIVE with that culture, or are you just importing it, consuming it, and not adding anything to it? When 2nd genners in the US listen to Bollywood, I agree that it is due to a cultural impulse. And some 2nd gen groups (Koreans, Vietnamese, Philipinos) do not really consume culture from their parents’ countries at all, so in that sense the Bollywood-imbibing crowd is a step ahead of them (and this gets back to my point about certain cultures having an appeal and others not). But the Bollywood-thumpers are mere consumers, not creators or artists. Similarly, when Gujaratis celebrate Navratri, yes the 2nd gen dances enthusiastically, dresses up in Indian finery, and celebrates their heritage. But it’s sort of fossilised, and the actual singers/musicians are usually 1st gen performers. For the 2nd gen, it’s quite passive. But uniquely, the UK bhangra scene is full of creativity on every level (musicians, singers, producers, dancers) from the 2nd and 3rd gen. The only thing they have not managed to do by and large is write songs, which are all either traditional folk songs, or new songs written by 1st gen Punjabis or people still living in Punjab. However the number of dhol, tumbi, algozey, etc. players in the 2nd gen is impressive. Singers too. DJs and producers. You yourself pointed out the efforts of someone like Mukhtar Sahota in a previous thread. What a beautiful album he released. More than that, the cd’s which are being released, are all products of the UK, from recording to manufacture. It’s a whole industry. I just don’t see other desi (or even non-desi) immigrant groups doing all this stuff. And I think it has helped British Sikh youth maintain a very strong sense of identity and culture. You are right though, UK Caribbean people have also been quite creative with their parents’ culture too, musically speaking.
Is he for real? I think all this is very edam-up .
The provolone is in the pudding and the faux sista-hood.
maybe moderating just brings out the muenster in us.
maybe we’ve just lost the whey
But I’m queso confused
Gautham (post #90):
I would agree that Bollywood (nowadays) is largely Punjabi Hindu culture, expressed through the medium of the Hinglish language, mishmashed with Bombay sensibilities, and with the NRI audience also firmly in mind.
mostly we just chew the feta
feta iz gross.
but i havarti bad feeling about this.
you have been brie fed.
Amitabh,
I don’t think Punjabi diaspora culture is unique in what has been done, although I am very happy that its been done. I love Punjabi culture and am really glad its around, grateful for the musicians, connoisseurs, dancers, everyday listeners, and mad boosters (like you). without it all, who knows what would have happened to our culture, which indeed is full of spirit. In fact I think there is a lot of lessons that remain to be learned about Punjabi culture, including peaceful co-existence of multiple, strongly held beliefs and cultural practices. I saw it often but, the syncretic nature of Punjabiyat goes deep and there’s much to delve into there.
Thats in part what is missing from what you are holding though as the unique part of how Punjabis retained and re-molded the (our) culture. I see one of the greatest strengths of Punjabiyat as a rogues belief that you can’t hold down ideas or the spirit behind the one of the strongest currents on Punjabyiat, which is love. Love for one’s family, one’s comrades, one’s sisters, one’s land, one’s beliefs, and love, in the end for whoever expresses their own authenticity. Punjabiyat, at its best, is an embrace of any kind of authentic (heartfelt?) expression.
I think given the nature of Punjabi culture and history, British Sikhs were well-placed in their efforts, since Sikhs are in some ways minorities in every place they live. They (we) have developed a culture that creates these tendencies, through music, food, clothing, the narrative we give to our history, and other folk-ways. These cultural aspects were there for British Sikhs to use in their efforts. Its the same cultural aspects that sometimes, though, give us a sense of being besieged. Its not for nothing that Tjinder Singh of Cornershop sang a lyric like, “sleep on the left side, keep the sword hand free.” Thats a powerful emotion for us, and gives as a guide-post. I think some people are not aware that some of these aspects are not simply song lyrics, they resonate deeply with people. But we need to make sure, I think, that we breathe a little and realize, we can’t do anything single-handedly and what will come out is what will come out.
But, I don’t think its useful to say there is something unique going on here. I don’t think its accurate for one, and for another, its more fun in a way to let things flow and accept disparate strands of inspiration from any cultural environment that comes along. One tends to stagnate if we focus too strongly on being different or unique.
Peace brah!
Sahej: Excellent comments, thank you. Additionally, the UK as a nation itself gets a lot of credit, since it (unintentionally) provided perfect conditions/mentality/lifestyle for this creativity to be possible. It never happened in Canada or the US.
For all those who want a concrete example of what I’m talking about, I just chanced upon this video on youtube (although I had the cd that this medley is taken from). Where else other than the UK will you find this..just amazing. Check out these young Scottish Sikhs.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=4fq3CwtBKKQ
i found this video its awesome
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-QF_gMQKFBs&NR
Check out these young Scottish Sikhs.
Mr. Mac-Singh lol.
Amitabh,
re: #114
You’re right in all of your points. British Sikhs have generally been at the forefront of cultural innovation here in the UK; even GGM is dominated by Punjabis, albeit Hindu rather than Sikh (except for Kulwinder Ghir, of course). The influence of music cannot be underestimated — there have been different desi musical genres involved, as Red Snapper correctly mentioned earlier, but bhangra was instrumental in originally providing a focal point for 2nd-Generation desis of all backgrounds, especially when coupled with the social gatherings associated with it.
I can remember what it was like when everything really started taking off, during the early 90s; until then, rap was the main type of music which young desis looking for a somewhat boisterous outlet could identify with. Bhangra basically became regarded as “our own version of rap” — because of the nature of the music and the aggressive tone sometimes involved (Surinder Shinda’s album “Putt Sardaran De” is a good late-90s example of what I’m referring to); during that time, many (South) Asians here still felt uncomfortable about going to “mainstream” clubs, for various reasons. Weekly/bi-weekly “Asian” nights at various clubs in London and elsewhere in some of the major British cities provided a place for desis to go to as an alternative, where they could still experience the full clubbing, well, experience, along with dancing to music which was “ours”, and in an environment where they would not be the “outsiders”.
These gigs became huge — you’d have people from all over London (mainly college students) arriving at the biggest weekly “bhangra night”; annual college Diwali shows were also major events, as they involved DJs and often also live bhangra acts — the largest celebrations at various campuses across the country would even involve many busloads of desi students from all over the UK turning up. In any case, the atmosphere at the desi club nights in particular was fantastic, especially as it was all still relatively “new”; Sikhs/Punjabis would of course consist the core participants, but plenty of desis from all other backgrounds would also enthusiastically join in (yes, including Pakistanis, both guys and girls), and it was all a superb unifying force for (South) Asians as a whole.
It’s because of memories of those times in particular, along with the “we’re all in the same boat” atmosphere during my college times (and for a couple of years later), that I think the apparent regression of British South Asian Muslims (esp. Pakistanis) in recent years — particularly post-9/11 — is such a tragedy in some ways. 7/7, radical groups such as HuT, Danish cartoons, the ongoing homegrown jihadi plots and the support for extremism etc just provide even further examples of how much things have changed, along with the marked increase in burkhas etc as I’ve mentioned before.
Following on from this:
Correct, but my point was regarding excessive adherence to the negative aspects of ancestral culture. The religious element for British Pakistanis adds fuel to the fire and, as you’ve rightly stated, is a major factor too.
Sahej made some excellent points in #125 too.
Racism was obviously something we all faced, and as I’ve occasionally mentioned previously, until about 10-15 years ago the attitude towards desis and our depiction in the media from the perspective of the mainstream population wasn’t so different to the current unfortunate situation for desis over there in the US. Both Sikhs and desi Muslims were at the forefront of rectifying this — both in the public sphere and in normal daily life — but the difference is that while Sikhs (and Hindus) have to some extent moved on from the underlying anti-white and anti-Western attitudes, a disproportionate number of Muslims here have not. They’re still maintaining the prejudice towards Western culture and the racism towards white people that is endemic within the older desi generation as a whole. Hence the problems.
PS Amitabh & Sahej,
I hate to use other commenters as “case studies” (especially as I’ve inadvertantly been on the receiving end of this a couple of times myself), but the kind of anti-Western attitude and ideas repeatedly displayed by R.K.Khan on this thread and several others (eg. the “Shorba Nazis” thread) is a prime example of the problems and underlying causes which I’ve been talking about.
It’s all very familiar, and this kind of rhetoric is exactly the kind of mentality displayed by the Muslim social misfits here who are both unable and unwilling to integrate satisfactorily into British/Western society and culture, the “armchair jihadis”, and (in the worst cases) the extremist groups.
…..especially after 9/11.
New video by Specialist n Tru Skool
I am deeply sorry for having caused a scandal. I shouldn’t have said I found melas cheesy. I should have been respectful to Asian culture and said they were paneer-y. ;p
But for the record, I don’t actually know any of the SMers, outside of a few scattered e-mails with Anna over the past 2 years. And while I have hung with Bong Breaker a few times (met him via SM, actually!), I have yet to see him breakdance. We’re hoping to get him onstage this weekend at Abdul Smooth’s Indian Electronica Festival. 😉 (Red Snapper, you local?)
Balle balle balle! (and the gori hoi-hois off into the sunset)
Jai: I was lucky enough to spend the summer of ’98 in London. Although I was staying in Chelsea/South Kensington area (beautiful neighbourhood, with really gorgeous goriyan janaanian), most of my free time was spent in Southall, including many of the weekends. I got a glimpse into the desi world you described so eloquently in post #129. Saw some melas, kabbadi matches, lots of great music, met great people, had langar very often, and really developed an appreciation for desi UK. B21/Bally Jagpal were huge that summer. You guys have something special going on there. My only regret is not going to Birmingham…I’d have loved to check out the scene there too. What surprised me was that desis who were from ‘nicer’ or ‘whiter’ neighbourhoods, really looked down on Southall as a poor ghetto with paindoo people…most of them avoided it and couldn’t understand my fascination with it. They didn’t even go there for the food, which in my view is some of the best desi restaurant food I’ve ever had. Have things changed?
Sahej: Bikram Singh is one of the few good artists active in North America. His albums kicked ass, he can sing, he got great producers (from the UK) to do the album from him, AND he wrote a lot of the songs (apparently he grew up in India until almost his teens or something). Here’s a great video which was filmed right here in NYC:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=usYefwfMIIk
“I had very much the same experience in college. At first I avoided the Indian scene because whenever I told people I was studying to be a writer instead of a banker or engineer or doctor, they would give me the same patronizing BS as my parents’ friends back home. But eventually, when I did try to integrate myself into the scene somewhat, I was struck by how little it resembled my own background. Again, not saying this is a negative, but it’s interesting how some parts of the desi diaspora can be just as foreign to some of us as Western culture. I ultimately felt very out of place at the bhangra shows and Garba events at my college, and the only cultural activities I ended up a part of were the Hindu Student Council events. But even those tended towards Holi and other North Indian festivals; I finally started to realize why places like Chicago, Detroit and others have such strong Tamil Sangam organizations. I think it’s because India is such a diverse place, that more and more Indian-Americans (myself included) are rejecting the idea of a pan-diasporic identity in favor of simply preserving the cultural trappings that we feel a part of and not feeling obligated to import everything wholesale across the pond.”
I don’t usually comment on the boards, but I totally identify with what you’re saying here. South Indian culture isn’t really regarded as being “desi” at all, even though its contributed a lot to the overall idea of what popular “Indian culture” is.
I think a lot of it has to do with the fact that most south indians who immigrated were educated professionals and there was a lot more emphasis on promoting religion and classical arts like bharatanatyam and carnatic music. You can’t suddenly take a classical artform and make into a club music, like you can with bhangra. So you either rejected all of it, or you stayed within those boundaries.
But there’s an incredible amount of innovation possible within the boundaries-the problem is that you can’t learn it for seven years and start being “innovative” because its way too short of time to have any real in depth knowledge. Most kids who learn classical music or dance only study till they can have an arangretram. Plus, if you want to do fusion, you got to be knowledge about western music theory as well.
Whereas you can learn bhangra, the dhol or garba or sing bollywood vocals in a very short period of time.
One observation that I’ve noticed is that south indian kids in the US are really the only ones who have made attempts to preserve their classical arts more than any other diasporic group.
Radha:
It’s unfortanate that yourself, Gautham, and presumably other South-Indian Americans have had these negative experiences. Speaking for myself, I always had (and still have) a lot of esteem and regard for southern Indian culture. I love the sound of Carnatic music, and I find the temple architecture to be beautiful (which I mentioned on another thread a few weeks ago). Many of my relatives enjoy south Indian food and have it whenever the opportunity arises. I myself enjoy dosas if made well (one of my friend’s mom makes it awesome). When I was in Singapore in May, and had a delicious south Indian meal, as well as heard really rhythmic Tamil bhajans blaring from the shops, although I recognised that these things were very different from my culture, yet I still felt they were desi, and in a strange way they made me feel more comfortable in what was otherwise a largely Chinese environment. Diversity is the name of the game and it would be horrible if everyone conformed to some kind of Punjabi model of what it means to be Indian. I do agree, just based on my own observations, that for young, college-going South Indian ABD’s, who may have come from very white-washed, non-Indian environments in high school, etc. and are trying to find or define a desi identity as young adults, the pressure to fit in to a north Indian or Punjabi/Bollywood/Gujarati template is very powerful. As for south Indian kids holding on to classical traditions more than other groups, that’s probably true. Most Punjabis (and Gujaratis) have a village background and thus are able to transmit village culture like bhangra and garba to their offspring. Most Southies (in the US) have urban, professional backgrounds, and do not really possess south Indian village culture, but do try to transmit high-end art forms like bharatnatyman and carnatic music. But honestly what I see happening is more of a fusion…at all the south Indian weddings I’ve been to, bhangra and Bollywood music have played prominent roles, including a Keralite Christian wedding in NYC…it’s because people want to drink and party (at the reception at least) and there’s nothing better than bhangra for that. OK, I’m rambling now, let me just end by saying that I for one do appreciate the cultural contributions of south Indians.
Amitabh,
It’s a very wealthy area of London. I guess the closest equivalent would be Bel-Air or Beverley Hills in LA. King’s Road in Chelsea is quite famous (it was apparently the centre of action during the late 60s). And yes there are a lot of model types wandering around there 😉
Well, Southall’s still a pretty hardcore Sikh/Punjabi area, although in recent years there have also been a growing number of Pakistanis and (I think) Somalians there. When I was a lot younger it was regarded as a slightly rough neighbourhood; not so much during the past 10 years or so, although there are still occasional arguments on the street which turn into small disturbances, and apparently it’s not a good idea to leave an expensive car lying around (ironic when you consider the number of Beemers and Mercs Indians owned by Indians there). But there are many new restaurants on Southall Broadway, the street itself is very vibrant and there are lots of expensive desi clothes stores too, along with the usual music/video stores, convenience stores etc. Nice place to hang out during the summer. There is a huge new gurdwara there too which you may have heard of.
I don’t currently know anyone who lives there, but I did have some colleagues a few years ago (2000) who were originally from Southall. From what I was told, the area has its merits and it’s okay to visit, but it is quite insular and conservative in some ways. I guess people like to move on from there once they reach a certain financial level or generally want to broaden their horizons.
As I mentioned, the Punjabi influence has played a huge part in shaping the “flavour” of UK desi culture, and on the whole I think it’s been a positive influence. Some of the older non-Punjabi Indian generation don’t like it, for obvious reasons, and of course the problems within the British Pakistani population have poisoned matters to some extent too. But life for Indians in general is cool, we’ve had to grapple with a lot of the intergenerational and intercultural issues you’re currently having to deal with in the US and I think that generally people here are moving forward positively.
I’m probably going to show my age from the perspective of any Brits currently lurking on SM, but the best bhangra nights in my experience were “Bombay Jungle” at The Wag in London, followed by the same at “Limelight” — this was early-mid 90s when the UK desi scene was really kicking off big-time. There had previously been a very famous “desi night” at a club in the capital called the Hammersmith Palais — a bit before my time — but it got shut down and banned because fights kept breaking out !
Typical…..;)
There used to be “daytime bhangra clubs” too — again before my time — which you may have heard of. They were a compromise because the parents didn’t like the idea of their betas and betis clubbing into the night. It seems quite a quaint idea now…..;)
Agreed about the pressure to conform to Bombayite/Punjabi culture. For some reason fluency in Hindi and a love for Bollywood is seen as the litmus test for ‘Indian-ness’.
Jai:
I’ve been back to Southall many times since ’98, most recently in Nov. I was just wondering if the perception that middle/upper-class, better-off desis have of it has changed. You’re right, it’s a lot more Somali now, and I did sense that as soon as someone is economically able, they try to move out of there (countered by those who have innumerable ties to friends/family there and really enjoy it and wouldn’t dream of leaving). That huge gurudwara is nice, really looms in the skyline. I’ve heard it’s mostly empty and people prefer the Singh Sabha closer to the Broadway (near the train station). It’s not only the desi angle I love about the UK… I really enjoy the country as a whole, the vibe, the feel. When I’m landing in Heathrow and look out the plane window and see London below, to me it’s a wonderful feeling. If money was no object (and in the UK, not only is money DEFINITELY an object but my particular profession also does not tend to do very well there, at least compared to the USA) and if the weather was better I’d probably consider living there, even if for only part of the year. And English women…don’t even get me started.