Marginal Revolution (tongue-in-cheek-ly) wants to know–
Conservatives love to rant about the evils of Hollywood. Too much sex and violence. Inappropriate for the family. Religion gets short shrift. Fair enough, a lot of Hollywood fare isn’t fit for the 13 and under crowd. Here’s my question: why aren’t conservative media critics rushing en masse to sing the praises of Bollywood films? Michael Medved, where are you?Consider the following Bollywood film conventions:
1. No sex. If you’re lucky, you might see some wet sari.
2. The films often revolve around finding a wonderful spouse and getting married.
3. The bigger the wedding, the better…
Read the rest. 😉
I don’t recall who, but some family oriented groups in the US do bowlderize hollywood movies and make them safe to watch with children (to the dismay of some hollywood directors). I think it would be fantastic idea to get some conservative group in the US to endorse and promote bollywood movies. For one, we can hope to see more meaningful roles for Robert and D’Souza the Gangsters and Mona and Julie the molls. Not to mention a desi ‘last days leading to armaggeddon’ flick. Bollywood movies do have a worldwide audience due the the diaspora and the ‘wholesome’ image. Sadly (for conservatives anyway), I think Bollywood is becoming more ‘risque’, I hear some film stars starring and releasing porn MMS (cell-phone) videos nowadays prior to movie launches.
4. Lots of piety. Religion is never mocked or portrayed in a negative light.
wrong religion. christian conservatives would probably portray references to hinduism as cultic influence.
After an intensive study of Fox News, I can safely say that the reason is there are no big-haired, big-chested blondes. No chest-pounding U.S. jingoism. And no country music.
And, uh, they’re foreign films. Except for the ‘nikal jao yahan se, I said get out’ bit.
Actually, if Punjabi movies were in English, and you swapped tractors for pickup trucks, they’d translate quite nicely.
More than just the dismay, there have been a few articles about how this is a form of copyright infringement.
Copyright includes the right to make (and, of cousre, profit from) any derivative works. Here, where conservative groups are giving Hollywood movies a nip here, and a tuck there, they are in fact creating derivative movies.
Hollywood no likey.
Because US Conservative power elites don’t really don’t care about family values, marriage, gays, or nudity. They get divorced, watch porn, drink, and/or screw men like anyone else.
It’s about politics ergo what plays to the largest audience. If the GOP said we’re trying to get more money for the wealthiest 1% of Americans ala Paris Hilton, make money for companies that rely on war and death for their incomes, and fight to the bone for companies that are destroying the environment – how well do you think that would play in Nebraska?
The voters who support this current power structure are good people, they’ve just been scammed and lied to – and are just now paying the price. They can only be blamed in the same way an elderly man who sends his pension check to Nigeria on an e-mail “promise” is at fault.
He should have known better, but was too trusting of human nature. Who can’t say they’ve been there too?
Relate to some furrin culture? See ourselves in the antics of some funny-lookin’ darkies? Listen to sumin’ that ain’t even honest, God-fearin’ ENGLISH??!!
WHAT KIND OF YELLER-BELLY COMMIE PINKO BASTARD ARE YOU??!
I don’t know about most conservatives, but browsing Netflix reviews of Bollywood movies, I have noticed a number coming from red state mom-types (or people who just happen to sound like red state moms in their online reviews). Of course, now that I’m looking, I can only find one:
Me, I watch them for the hott fashions and dance moves.
people should be cautious about generalizing about “conservatives,” as there are various types. yes, american politics is about coalitions and compromises, but FOX conservatism is not necessarily Focus on the Family conservatism and not necessarily razib conservatism.
This is a wild guess. Because there are no white people or they are playa hatin on our DESI sexy hotness.
You’re closer to the truth than you know: the farthest of the right-wingers appear to love Bollywood for the very reasons Marginal Revolution put forth. The link below is one of several sites I’ve found that feature nativists and white supremacists singing (no pun intended) about Bollywood’s glories.
http://www.vanguardnewsnetwork.com/lettersOct-Nov03/111203lynchbollywood.htm
Nalini, thanks for the link. Are they for real?
that’s fine; outsource it to us, just like everything else
The nativist link above mentions about light eye colors (green/blue) multiple times. I wonder why Indians don’t give as much focus on eye color as skin color. Is it because the genetic propagation is too complex (seemingly random) that you can’t infer origin from eye color? Given how desparate some indians are about researching their mythical caucas mountain ancestry (with the usual chestnuts – ‘I’m almost south european/arabic’ etc) and have a tremendous fascination with skin color (light or dark), I thought it was strange nobody gives much credance to eye color. In fact, most people in India seem to think of light eyes in the same fashion as Albino skin color, strange not totally desirable. I don’t recall indian literature mentioning much about eye color either. The recent blue/green eye contact craze is definitely a western import.
I think the outsourcing has already started, especially in digital films that need software skills, special effects, animation and studio infrastructure.
Well put Razib. I don’t it is unreasonable for pro-family groups to demand “wholesome” films. There is only so much French soft-porn or childhood/drugs/ghetto trauma that one can watch. Yay to escapist fare. Yet, we should be aware of conservative media figures such as the chronic phone-sex masturbator Bill O’Reilly or drug-addict Rush Limbaugh.
And let’s not forget that
Because
Along with
[emphasis mine]
And, of course, Kabhi Kushi Kabhi Gham has its off-label uses too:
The praises being sung are rather unexpected ones, yeah?
Bollywood represents Indian culture, here in the US we firmly believe in only our own culture. We like to look down our noses at foreign thoughts and ideas. In fact the only thing we want from foreigners, especially Asian is money and cheap labor. Inclusive Democracy, of the type we force on other nations would never, NEVER, be tolerated here. No we have a representational republic, why because it’s easier for those in power to stay in power, in short it’s an Oligarcy. In america we love to talk about freedom of religion, we are very tolerent of ALL religions(religion is defined as Christianity). Mythology(defined as non-christian) is only slightly tolerated. Go to any BARNES and NOBLE book store and wander over to the Religion section, the only books are Christian and perhaps a Talmud translation. All other books are in the Myths section or the phylosophy section. As time moves forward groups, patient non viloent groups can move up the social structure and share an ever increasing sliver of the pie, as the blacks have done. But it has taken over a hundred years and they are still under represented in government. India is not the only country with a caste system. America will except Bollywood films as soon as they start making porn, christian epics or perhaps just a violent bloody rout, as long as it’s not about how america treats minorities.
Wapmah, most of the posters here mean United States of America, when they say US. I have no idea where you’re talking about
Nalini, thanks for the link. Are they for real?
yes. many white nationalists in fact give back-handed praise to bollywood because it idealizes caucasoid light-skinned beauty and tends to put darker-skinned non-caucasoid characters in clownish roles. caste is, of course, thought of highly in many white circles (seeing as how everyone knows that the original aryans were “white” before they became debased by admixture ;), and see as a solution to the multiracialism of the modern west.
Given how desparate some indians are about researching their mythical caucas mountain ancestry (with the usual chestnuts – ‘I’m almost south european/arabic’ etc) and have a tremendous fascination with skin color (light or dark), I thought it was strange nobody gives much credance to eye color. In fact, most people in India seem to think of light eyes in the same fashion as Albino skin color, strange not totally desirable. I don’t recall indian literature mentioning much about eye color either. The recent blue/green eye contact craze is definitely a western import.
1) browns aren’t the only ones making up bizarro ancestry. many european nations made up stuff about being descended from one of the lost tribes of israel when that was prestigous.
2) one doesn’t need to expect that beauty will be always work by the “peacock effect,” that is, more of a given positive trait x will be advantageous. in most post-hunter gatherer cultures albinism is seen as harmful and not idealized, but light skin is usually preferred (especially for women). rule of thumb is that “light skin” is a relative measure. what is “dark” in germany (arnold schwarzanaeger, schwarz ~ dark) is “fair” in india. what is the median in india is “fair” in kenya.
Nice link, Nal!
White nationalists writing about obsessing over skin color. Dat’s a good one! Stormfront also has many postings on the Aryan/Bollywood connection. It’s utterly fascinating! Spent many a days readingÂ…shhh donÂ’t tell da bossman. Just a minor correction to my fellow Aryan brothers: Ash is not from a Brahmin community and we’re not really into light eyes – it’s more of an oddity/difference than anything else. And Kareena Kapoor not all that???Â…goddamn what I would do with that strong nose and those haughty lips you donÂ’t wanna know. She does crap films but she is utterly mesmermizing in a Paris Hilton kinda way. And I would watch Chameli over ParisÂ’ “home movies”..wait a second did I just say that. And IÂ’ve noticed most of the peeps who ever commented on varying skin shades among the browns are whites and blacks.
Be careful what you wish for, you might get it. -By Somebody Famous
This is all a bit weird to me because Hindi cinema to me growing up was so visceral and raw. Why would I need to watch it (my middling Hindi notwithstanding)? I’ve got power plays/Oedipal struggles/warring factions/violence in the extended family right in front of me. Don’t need to see it on screen. And the cinema was anything but family friendly…I was peeping the lost classic “Ram Teri Ganga Maili” this weekend…the scrumptious Mandakini is close to getting raped AT LEAST three times (probably more but I was dozing off and lost count- By the way, did not know she was rumored to be linked to Daewood Ibrahaim..Just makes her hotter…so wrong…so very wrong). Indian cinema has allowed itself to be typecast and partly the industry is to be blamed. Not really complaining…I got two cultures vultures, the Rents at the NdnKutie family estate giving me the down low. You could say the free market is once again making the wrong choices…but these films are a fraction of Indian cimena.
Journalist hacks arenÂ’t looking at the more serious Indian directors (i.e anything Gulzar, Shabana Azmi, Aparna Sen, Meean Kumari Guru Dutt (R.I.P. my nicca) touched/s- I donÂ’t even mention all the important regional cinema: Bengali, Marathi (Shwaas), Kannada, Tamil with their unique and proud traditions cuz I donÂ’t know them!!!)..they look at other countries for that: Iran, France, Italy. Iran, you can understandÂ…a few cosmopoliatans are churning out serious stuff in midst of repression and theocracy. Bollywood is looked at for fluff and escapism, in a way.
Just read ‘The Booksleer of Kabul’ (Afghanistan is hot right now!), a Scandanavian reporter’s semi-fictional tale in post Taliban-Afghanistan where freedom ain’t exactly flourishing for the average citizen. Many scenes stood out but a couple related to the post: The guy smuggling filmi tapes from Pakistan and singing along without even understanding the words. The burka-clad honeys in a downlo beautyshop staring at all the posters of the Bollywood beauties on the peeling walls. This is the image many in the industry try to portray, ethereal beauty, ascension…not only to its abject citizens but apparently to millions around the world (Africa, the Middle East, Central Asia, and the former Soviet Union at last count.)
And lastly, Sepia Mutiny is remiss in not addressing todayÂ’s tragedy: the dirty looks all us southern European/Arabic lookinÂ’ sensitive Desi thugs are going to endure on the F train ride home. DonÂ’t forget the forgotten victims! Peace in Middle East, Free South Africa!
Why aren’t US Conservatives Bollywood fans?
Probably the same reason US liberals aren’t big fans: Most bollywood movies suck.
Musicals suck. Watching grandma get the smack beaten out of her by the baddie is depressing. Watching one twin brother grow up as a police office and another as a gangster gets old quick. Listening to singing in helium-influenced pitches is annoying. etc. etc.
Oh snap..that’s f’n brilliant. Consider it stolen! Oh Lord… and one could be Hindu and the other a Muslim.
Hold up…I got another one: A black cop and a white cop working the same beat. Imagine the wacky culture clash! That would be so kwazieee! Or maybe they could be roommates!
Call me Ayn Rand cuz I am The Fountainhead. I won’t forget you lot when I’m collecting screenwriting ducats.
NdNKutie:
I hope you’re not referring to the brilliant Dukes of Hazzard spinoff: Enos.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0080213/
‘Cause if you are, you’re a commie.
Nice write-up NdNKutie, but I can’t help but be horrified at your statement ..
what the hell lady? to you the tragedy today is sepians getting some dirty looks but not that INNOCENT PEOPLE DIED!!! talk about misplaced sympathies, sick… you know, some of who died or are greviously wounded could have been brown.
Babloo, the same line caught my eye as well and I hoped, or thought, it was just a poorly worded sentence. I’m sure it was not meant in the way it came off….the tragedy is the deaths and injuries of innocents. Whether the victims were brown or not matters not in the least; they are human. They are our brothers and sisters. Heartbreaking.
Babloo, First off I’m a guy. Secondly, I was being purposefully glib. I was trying to equate writing a post about movies when bombs had gone off in our cosmopolitan sister city by referencing someone else’s SoEuro/Arabic commment.
Some hours before I posted I found out by email some of my dearest friends in London were A-OK, one even minutes from the blast. This terror, this war on terror, ultimately, it is all banal (Apologies to Hannah Arendt). I can say that even while reflecting on being stuck in communal riots, fearing my and my family’s life with a bomb going off in trash bin 20 feet away from me. I was scared sht*less then but now it’s just a receded celluloid imprint.
You only feel true lingering pain if you lose a mother/father/wife/brother/son in this chasm of evil. Let’s not pretend we can emapathize with the real victims with our crocodile tears while watching the evening news or reading the BBC website. I for one won’t pretend I can understand to see down to the abyss of pain of someone who lost someone they loved.
Sorry for the offense. Good night.
Yeah, but there’s an easy way to filter: get tips on the few excellent ones every year from those who suffer through all of ’em.
Or you could watch “NRI” films like American Desi and Where’s the Party Yaar and Arya and Flavors and Indian cowboy if you don’t understand the hindi and don’t want to go through the bother of “reading” the movie. It wouldn’t make a bit of a difference, the movies listed above are in the same vein as bollywood, except they’ve got no songs and american accents. Some of them even manage to transcend the “weekend tv movie” look or music-video-rave-club-i-hired-a-european cinematographer look that can be found in every bollywood movie song today.
Razib, I agree with much of what you said, but the example you used in the sentence below doesn’t make sense.
Arnold’s last name is Schwarzenegger, from the German schwarzen ecker (schwarz=dark, ecker=farmer), referring not to skin color but to the color of the earth farmed. His name doesn’t reference a racial slur, and isn’t meant to be a ethnic demarcation.
Ok.. then fess up with your recommendations..
I didn’t really like American Desi. I haven’t seen the other one anangbhai was recommending.
Of the last few I saw, I liked Ab Tak Chapan and Angoor. Bluffmaster, Sholay, Hera Pheri were ok. I did not like Kyaa Kool Hai Hum and Kal Ho Na No. I know bizarre sample to base recommendations on, but help a man stay sane, since I’m undergoing Alex de Large-like treatment.
No Sex? You obviously haven’t seen a Hindi movie anytime in the last few years….
Focus on the best filmmakers (Sanjay Leela Bhansali, Mani Ratnam IMO). The blockbusters are often decent as well.
My top picks from the last few years: Bombay, Devdas, Hum Dil De Chuke Sanam, Dil Se, Parineeta, Krantiveer, Kuch Kuch Hota Hai, Alaipayuthey, Yaadein, Dilwale Dulhaniya Le Jayenge
Interesting, but not entirely satisfying: Dil Chahta Hai, Yuva, 1942
Cheesy but fun: Kal Ho Na Ho, Hera Pheri
Oh hell, there’s lots more.
NdNKutie, thank you for your last comment.
I just finished Bawarchi. That was good. Family flick. I think I’ll phone James Dobson or whoever the current lieutenant of films in the Vast Right Wing Conspiracy is.
Gee Manish, is that why you keep me around?
oh wait. you said Yaadein. You never get to pick the movies, ever again.
Manish, you rated Yaadein over DCH and Yuva……..??? Gawd!!!
To those who think highly of our very own Indian Culture, try reading the countless matrimonials: 1) That ask for fair-skinned wives 2) That ask for well-placed husbands working in the west
And, as for racism; when we were kids we always made fun of whites / blacks / yellows whenever they walked our streets in bombay (its that deeply ingrained).
And, the Movies that come out of our studios only subtly propagate the above beliefs. Hindi Cinema Sucks and is entertainment only for fools. Period.
Cheers, FF
Hindi Cinema Sucks and is entertainment only for fools. Period.
Agreed. It seems that Indian cinema is yet to mature along with the rest of the culture. Indian cinema is simply a throwback to 1930s style racism in which “darkies” were often potrayed as comic reliefs. I tryed to bring this up with some of my family over there, and it doesn’t seem to bother them in the least bit [they are just as dark as me…very ;)]. They shrugged it off as if it they never thought of it that way. Everywhere you go, every ad you see will almost ALWAYS feature a lighter skinned actor at the forefront of the “acting”. You’ll often find these (generally huge) advertisments placed in the strangest locations, like overlooking a shanty town. As if the poor darkies don’t have enough to worry about, they don’t need to be constantly reminded every morning that they are dark as shit and thus society automatically devalues them (hey its true).
Death to whitey! :p
doesnt it seem it like FOX is the news channel that reports on paris hilton and strippers (who need to be saved, of course) the most.
brit hume’s a little dirty apparently
hindi cinema sucks??Ok first of all, yes some movies suck, but then there are really good movies as well…what about the recent ganster? sarkar? rang de basanti? Kalyug? People who say that indian films suck havent seen the good indian film and are generalizing by the few films they have seen. film makers like karan Johar and yash chopra always make love stories, yet people in india love them…meanwhile film-makers like mahesh bhatt, mukesh bhatt, sanjay leela bhansali do more unique films…yes, most of hindi cinema sucks..But the movies that are good, are REALLY good. I mean with an industry that releases 900 movies per year obviously most of them are going to suck. You need to know which directors and film-makers movies to watch in order to appreciate hindi cinema. Otherwise you will always bump into c-grade material.
Indian movies do suck and big time you seen one you seen all of them, portray beauty and when you to Indian where are they?, and not to mention those dumb Bollywood awards, that thing is a joke, I can go on and on but you can find quality movies everywhere, if like dirty movies who told you to watch with your kids, the TV is not supposed to raise your kids, you choose what to watch and what to see, and in my case even so my parents are Indian, I cannot learn to understand the mentality of those movies, they are like a bad long soap opera.
wow…people have very stereotypical views toward bllywood films…no kissing,no love scene???HAHAHA, its not like that these days thats for sure…Yes, no nudity but their is kissing….The stereotypical foreign view of indian films in boy meets girl…wow…how sad since I have seen many amazing indian films that dont have that. Yes, they may have love in it, but thats not the main plot…Black Friday, Omkara, Eklavya and the newly released awarapan are great films! Even Dor and Dharm are amazing! Unfortunately many people only know about the Indian commercial cinema, which is very sad. Yes, they can be entertaining but their is no meaning to those films. Also, their are many Indian films without songs…Perhaps I know this because I watch many Indian films, but its ridiculous how stereotypically depicted the indian film industry is.
…and darker-skinned people are not present, and everyone is light-skinned and ultra-rich.
One blog-commenter on stormfront.org is “refreshingly” succinct: I’ve read the Bhagavad-Gita many times over, the Upanisads, the Ramayana, most of which pre-dates or is contemporaneous with Homer. The profundity of these texts is proof enough to me that the authors were Aryans. The Sanskrit language was akin to ancient Greek, Latin, and all the other Indo-European languages. I have nothing but respect for Hindus, (but I still don’t want to see any at the annual family picnic.)
This is why I love Indian society, including the films, stars, songs and celebrities. The main focus is on clean cut morals and strong values. I guess if you’re going to classify me, I’m a white conservative Christian American. I love the family values in Indian society. Whenever I have attended Indian functions, the whole family is involved. It’s impressive. You don’t see Mom and Dad going places without the kids that much. Mostly at social functions, I see everyone eating together and afterward there is music and dancing. The music is as much for the children as the adults. Everyone is singing along to songs that are from famous movies and the kids are dancing right along with their parents too. What a wonderful example for all of us! It’s so much fun and I want to encourage more of us in t he U.S. to get involved with our Indian brothers and sisters. It’s a blast! If you are a person who is afraid that you’ll lose your faith because you hang out with someone of another faith then you didn’t have much faith to begin with! Lighten up!