Earlier today, Mumbai was struck by three explosions designed for maximum impact; homemade bombs erupted during rush hour, a time when the blasts were guaranteed to injure and murder as many innocents as possible.
It worked. Over 131 people were hurt and 18 perished in the coordinated attacks, which targeted popular areas in India’s financial capital. A list of those lost and injured is here.
The people of Mumbai reacted with bravery and heroic self-sacrifice:
Hitesh Soni said that people offered their private tempos, scooters and motorcycles to rush the victims to hospitals. “Ambulances and the police arrived later. It was local businessmen who came to the rescue and saved lives.” Businessman Manoj Jain added that those from the nearby textile (kapda) bazaar also came to the rescue of the victims.
Many of those involved in rescue operations were local residents. “We do not know about our families but are helping in the rescue operations . Once this work is over, we will check the whereabouts of our family,” said one of them, oblivious of his blood-soaked clothes.
On Twitter, a non-desi follower with far too much faith in my abilities asked, “Why does this keep happening to Mumbai?” I am definitely no expert; I’m not even Indian by anything other than heart, genotype and phenotype. I could only tell her the truth, that I had no answers, just the same whispered words that every erstwhile Catholic schoolgirl knows.
According to the BBC’s Soutik Biswas, the answer to “Why Mumbai?” is complex:
The most commonly peddled narrative is that by attacking its much touted financial and entertainment capital, you deal a body blow to India and get global media attention. But that is only a small part of the story. Many residents will tell you that Mumbai began going downhill in early 1993 when it convulsed in religious rioting and murder for two weeks following the demolition of the Babri mosque by Hindu fanatics in December 1992. At least 900 people died, mostly Muslims. Two months after the riots, the underworld set off series of bombs to avenge the riots, killing more than 250 people. Many of them were Muslims too.
The answer to “Who did it?” is complicated too, according to the Grey Lady:
A senior American law enforcement official said that early indications pointed to India-based militants, not to Lashkar-e-Taiba, a militant group in Pakistan. But the official cautioned that the investigation was still in its very early stages and that it was premature to make any firm conclusions about what group carried out the bombings. The police described the bombs as improvised explosive devices.
I feel compelled to share a “highlighted” comment from that NYT article, from a Mumbaikar named Sen:
I live in Mumbai, my hometown, to which I returned after 17 years of living abroad.
I am also the father of two teenaged kids, both of whom were out and about when the bombs exploded. I had some tense moments, since the older one regularly spends time at the location of one of the explosions. Both are at home now.
I want to make a few points:
1) There was no communal problem in 2008 and there will be none this time around. I live in a building with a dozen Muslim families and I had a lot of offers from my neighbors to go out and get my kids home.No, we know who is behind this and its not the Indian Muslim. Its never been the Indian Muslim.
2)To those who keep harping on India not being able to defend itself, or not able to retaliate or not able to teach a lesson to Pakistan; PLEASE UNDERSTAND that that is EXACTLY what the terrorists, and those who back and train them, wish to see. A full fledged war between the 2 nations. We cannot and will not play into their hands.
3) We have seen the results of the reaction of the USA to 9/11. The USA, very neatly, played into Osama’s hands ,and has spent close to 10 years in 2(3 ?) wars which have bankrupted the USA, killed thousands of Americans and tens of thousands of Muslims and have given many more recruits to the Al Queda and the Taliban. we cannot afford to make the same mistake.
4) Now that the USA and the west have come to their senses with regard to the reality of Pakistan, now that the USA will not pour more and more billions into Pakistan, now that the USA will no longer cover Pakistan’s back at the United Nations, now there is hope that slowly but surely the world, and India, can take action against Pakistan without having to worry about the reaction of the USA, the great protector of Pakistan for the last 50 years and more. The pusher to Pakistan the addict.
5) Please remember that India has more than 140 million Muslims. For a Muslim population of that size, India is remarkably free of terrorist attacks
You know what else is remarkable?
Technology enthusiasts decided to do their bit. Nitin Sagar (@nitinsgr) Product Manager at Map My India (GPS and mapping company in India) created a public Google Spreadsheet to collate helpline numbers. Twitter users added their details to help the affected. As he states, he started the spreadsheet with 5 phone numbers, through Twitter and Facebook there were more than 200 contact numbers within a few hours. [ZDNet]
Beyond Twitter and Facebook, there is a blog called Mumbai Help; its tagline is “Surviving Mumbai– Information for Emergencies in the Bombay Area”. While locals in Bombay used social networks to compile information for those immediately affected, Sepia Mutiny readers used them to express frustration, anguish and concern. SM commenter Coffee Face shared two reasons why she was upset on my Facebook wall:
How about the lack of coverage by primetime news channels in the States?
NBC did one story (by Richard Engel) on the Nightly News, I’m pretty sure that story was about 4 minutes longer than any other network covered it…I don’t like the general American reaction of ‘Why is this a big deal? Doesn’t this shit happen ‘over there’ all the time?’ #gettingoffsoapbox
Scheherazade wrote:
“Home is where we have to gather grace” (Nissim Ezekiel – “Enterprise”) We have woken up today to submerged streets and a sense of cold sadness, but this is an island city and it knows how to rise above.
Five years ago almost to the day, I blogged about the train blasts in Mumbai that claimed 188 lives. Now it is 2011 and once again, I am praying, perhaps fruitlessly for a city on the other side of the globe. It occurs to me that if prayers were all it took to safeguard a nation, India would be the safest place in the world.
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About the title, for those of you who don’t get the ‘kast ref. Please keep the comments so fresh and so clean; that will help them remain open.
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Image: screenshot.
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Thank you to Phillygirl, who contributed links and other assistance to this post.
I (respectfully) disagree with CoffeeFace. Why does s/he demand extensive coverage by US media for 21 people (which is of course 21 too many) being killed in Mumbai, when you have scores killed regularly in Pakistan by US drones without extensive coverage, when you had scored killed daily two years ago in Sri Lanka without extensive coverage, etc.? Are Mumbaikers’ lives worth more than rural Pakistanis or Sri Lankan Tamils? What about the tens of thousands of Indian farmers committing suicide? Should CNN be covering South Asian death exclusively? Why the resentment over these 21?
That is a damn good point too
Thank you for being so respectful and thoughtful with your disagreement. May every other commenter follow your exemplary lead. 🙂 You made your point without getting personal and your contribution was productive– I think those are questions worth asking and considering.
Having said that, I grok where CoffeeFace is coming from…earlier today, I updated my FB status to note the dissonance I was feeling; my time line was all soccer cheers interspersed with occasional anguish over Mumbai. Several non-Desi friends responded quickly and sympathetically– and all of them mentioned that this was the first they were hearing about any bombing and how they wished they had known. So I think her point is well-taken, just like yours is well-taken in providing context and perspective.
The reason why terrorist attacks on India are newsworthy is because a number of attacks such as the Parliament attack in 2001 and Mumbai 2008 brought two nuclear-armed countries very close to war and terror is openly used by India’s neighbor to the west as a tool of statecraft. In contrast, drone attacks on Pakistani soil are counterinsurgency operations meant to prevent Mumbai style attacks on the West (please don’t create a false equivalence). Mumbai is repeatedly targeted because it is India’s financial capital. It is the same reason why Bangalore–almost two thousand miles away–is Pakistan’s preferred target in the opening hours of war–India’s economic growth gives India strength which makes any imaginary rivalry untenable. Dialogue is impossible if one side refuses to introspect.
Additionally, it is simplistic to say that everything started with Babri, when ahmedabad, mumbai, hyderabad, godhra, and yes, even god’s own country all had histories of riots well before the demolition of the mosque. The only difference is that when rioters in mumbai began attacking hindus in response to the demolition, the shiv sena and affiliate groups organized a response.That is why there was a falling out between dawood ibrahim (of the underworld which Mr. Biswas conveniently treats) and his number 2, chhota rajan, because the former decided to up the communal ante with ordnance and rajan was a decided nationalist (albeit, a criminal one).
As for why an attack occurred, at all: Indian natsec commentators have been predicting one for some time because of all the heat on Pakistan’s post OBL and aid cut. The ISI complex felt emasculated and such attacks are routinely used to send messages and assert themselves.
Finally it is incorrect to say “indian militants” when the Indian Mujahideen are openly radicalized, organized, trained, and financed by the ISI managed LeT. For the same reason that brief press statements by the 2008 terrorists disingenuously stated Deccan Mujahideen as the name of their groups is the same reason that the IM are propped up: plausible deniability and opportunity to take the heat off and create a narrative of “oppression”.
That is not to say that locals of all communities don’t come together and help each other during these tragic attacks. These are indeed heartwarming human interest pieces, but if we are going to ask questions, they must be answered honestly.
As a Muslim American I can tell you that India is one of thee most beautiful place in the world. I have been to Bangladesh and heard the stories of people who have helped and harmed us. I can tell you that we are not behind these stupid, ignorant people affecting your lives, we do not condone violence. I pray for your safety and Allah prays for your kindness.
Ameen.
When bombs rip open, they don’t choose a particular community to bleed or scrape the skin off of. This has very little to do with any communal enterprise, it’s more the business/politics of warfare. Stress being on business. Damage is always indiscriminate. Near Opera House, a muslim cabbie provided shelter to my friend’s father, a Jain stock broker. In a matter of minutes, folks opened their doors, offered everything – from their cars to their couches – to those who needed help. My city has a big heart. And we insist on being indestructible. And we remain thoroughly unimpressed by their bombs and violence.
Once again, thanks for writing this.
i suspect that people would express less frustration with the lack of coverage if the media was covering serious topics. as it is, a lot of it is trivial, that whenever something strikes close to home, one can’t help but express disgust and consternation. the details differ, as there’s a lot of tragedy and stories worth covering out there. but the general point is the same.
BoingBoing actually had some good coverage of the attacks. You should also factor in news junkies like me. I read the NYT, but also the Guardian, Al Jazeera, and Outlook India. Not all Americans get their news from US media alone.
“I’m not even Indian by anything other than heart *”
And the average American is not Indian by heart, genotype, or phenotype. I don’t expect US TV networks to care (though one could perhaps make the case that they should). Most Indians don’t care about what is happening in Afghanistan, though there’s more in common between an average Indian and an average Afghan than an average American and an average Indian.
It is obvious that whenever a famous leader from the US visits India,there might be bomb blast before it. Don’t forget George Bush’s visit to India and the bomb blast just before that. Hillary is the first senior political leader from the US who’s going to visit India on 19th after Obama’s visit.
A cyclone that kills 21 people in Andhra Pradesh wouldn’t be as newsworthy to American audiences. But a terrorist attack that may involve the help of Pakistani elements judging by past history, a country, very much in the news, is newsworthy. I am no longer a big Obama fan. But I have seen the right attack Obama whenever he extends a diplomatic superficial gesture to the muslim countries saying that he is appeasing the inner muslim in him and that no one in his right mind would appease any country accused of terrorism while they had not a single word to say about Bush or prior Presidents allying with Pakistan which had more terroristic ties than Iraq. Now Saddam may be a more of a bad guy than Musharaff , and there are valid reason to play bad cop /good cop dance with Pakistan instead of demonizing Pakistan, but that was not the talking point they sold the Iraq war on. IN fact, in addition to the WMD thing, one of the frequent talking points was at some point, at some time, someone in Saddam’s regime had breif contact with a terrorist. By that standard, they shoud have gotten backing to destroy Pakistan a 1000 times over.
Anyway, the point is unless people get to know that region better, they are in no position to judge our 2012 candidates readiness in combating foreign problems. There are interesting ways to present context to the casual public. A good editor could present an interesting storyline to sell the news. Instead of the overkill of repetitive coverage on CNN that we saw for the earlier Mumbai attacks (the Taj and other nearby places), they should have coverage to the point and revisit it later when a new angle comes along on the same topic.
Yes, I hope no one has the idiocy or mendacity( depending on who it is) to raise the subject of “underlying causes”. There is no underlying cause, except for the terrorists’ desire to damage Mumbai and India economically and socially. The attacks would take place regardless of Ayodhya, Mumbai riots or Gujarat riots. Also, there’s the question of how long are commentators going to use those reasons/excuses to explain or justify terrorist attacks. If an attack occurs in the year 2020, are you going to use “Ayodhya incident” to explain it all away? Ludicrous.
Another way of countering this line of thinking( the underlying cause notion) is to cite countries like China, Myanmar, Iran, Saudi Arabia and Hindus in Bangladesh. Surely, there is injustice, repression, human rights violation and/or communal killings in all these countries. Yet, you do not see serial bombings and machine gun attacks, as a response to those conditions. India is singled out. Crazy, isn’t it?
Why do these attacks keep happening in Bombay/Mumbai?
Some of it has to do with Mumbai being close to pakistan in geographical terms as well as careful calculation by terrorists in pakistan. Obviously the 26/11 massacres belonged to that category. We havent seen any evidence yet of the same in this case; even if some demagogic indian politicians have begun to blame pakistan reflexively.
A lot of it has to do with the underworld take-over of Mumbai politics and even the police. Most people are not aware that due to insane real estate laws, all Mumbai real estate transactions involve the mafia and the police. Top police positions are “sold” for about $1million; the idea is that the person will be making 10x that sum when running the police department. Of course, this is shared with the local politicians as well. Summary: a non-functional police and intelligence operation, mostly focused on extracting rent from real estate transactions, which are otherwise all “illegal” due to various bizarre rules and laws.
Finally, the indian politicians do not feel much blow back from these attacks. It is still much easier to get votes based on ethnic identity or distribution of govt benefits to some community, VS. asking for support based on freedom from terror. The indian middle-class just isnt big enough (relative to the rest of the population) or urbanized enough to be able to hold politicians accountable for issues like this.
“Why does s/he demand extensive coverage by US media for 21 people (which is of course 21 too many) being killed in Mumbai,”
It’s not the amount of people, it’s the manner in which they died, perhaps its not fair.
in 2001, there were over 30,000 suicide deaths: http://www.suicide.org/suicide-statistics.html
that’s 10 times the amount that died in 9/11, these people don’t get their names read every year, they don’t get a special fund, it’s not the number, its the manner in which it happened.
Terrorism in Mumbai should be extensively coverd, if only to push more action be done against it. Now the US knows Pakistan harbors terrorists (ie. UBL) and unfortunately you only get things done if you somehow convince the US it’s worth doing.
“Now that the USA and the west have come to their senses with regard to the reality of Pakistan, now that the USA will not pour more and more billions into Pakistan, now that the USA will no longer cover Pakistan’s back at the United Nations, now there is hope that slowly but surely the world, and India, can take action against Pakistan without having to worry about the reaction of the USA, the great protector of Pakistan for the last 50 years and more. The pusher to Pakistan the addict.”
ame[e]n.
One of the key differences between this bombing and the 2006 bombing is the nature of the explosions. In 2006, the terrorists used highly effective plastic explosives. The bombs used yesterday seem to be a crude homemade device. After 2006, India did a good job of monitoring plastic explosives, or materials used to make such explosives, coming in and out of the country. To make such materials requires extensive infrastructure, that you are not likely to find in a Mumbai alley. But in a nation of over 1 billion, with poor law enforcement, terrorists will find many targets. Given the inability of New Delhi to even work up a political retaliation, why wouldn’t a terrorist strike? From their point of view, there is little downside.
I am sorry to say but as long as people keep on electing the same government they should not expect changes. The same government who will not let execution of the mastermind of 2001 parliament attack (LeT) be hanged, even after the supreme court has cleared it.
Accused of Ahmedabad serial blasts in 2008, again the same group backed by LeT, went upto Supreme court to demand that their trial be moved from Gujarat as they cannot get justice in Gujarat. So even after 3 years the trial hasnt started. (The Supreme court finally threw out the petition paving way for the trial) And there is virtually no outrage over this. The English language media in India actually might be suggesting that the people of Gujarat are worse than the LeT terrorists ….
Can you imagine any ridiculous “appeals” entertained by the Supreme court of the US???
The thing is that in India everything is political. So more of these events will keep on happening, nobody will be punished and people will vote for the same government again. India has NO FREEDOM. There is still a law in books BANNING NEWS radio.
Sahar,
I echo Anna’s sentiments, thank you for disagreeing with me with respect. Of course, I see your point and I could be wrong about my view. I actually do agree with you on one point, Mumbaikar’s lives are no more or less important than Sri Lankan Tamils (I am Tamil by the way) or Pakistanis. To know me is to know I get outraged about a lot of things… lack of adequate media coverage being one of them, across the board, western media and otherwise.
I think, perhaps my anger this time comes from seeing hours and hours of coverage about the middle east revolutions by all western media (US, UK, etc) when the city I hold dear to my heart for a variety of reasons, gets hit…once again. When they do cover South Asia, it’s almost always to talk about how Afghanistan is going to shit. I guess I’m a news junkie nerd (read: twitter, online newspapers from everywhere, etc) and feel like to get the message across that India is a major player in world security it needs to be on TV, prime time, for the ‘average American/British/etc’ viewer. From my perspective, India exercised a lot poise and composure in 2008 when they found out who was responsible for the attacks. I’m so glad they didn’t react violently against Pakistan. I’m hopeful the responsible parties this time around are not related to LeT, Dawood, etc and India exercises and equal amount of composure and clear thinking.
Also: loving the comments by Mumbaiker Sen in the NYT article. Brought this up to a prof in grad school years ago…she practically kicked me out of class because she was convinced Indians hated all Muslims. My point, like New Yorkers, Mumbaikars are all one crazy, dirty, loud, movie-loving, bhel-eating family.
I heard on MSNBC that it may have been the Indian Mujahideen that was responsible. Mostly Gujarati sections were targeted. Very sad, if true, that Indian Muslim fanatics are aspiring to become like their unstable, underachieving co-religionists from the west.
And Oh BTW Anna, I respectfully disagree with Sen’s comments. They are basically an excuse for cowardice and inaction. Besides his point about US bankrupting itself is beyond stupid. This is the same half baked “knowledge” of Indian middle class. Fighting wars in Afghanistan was not economically detrimental to the US at all. In fact in present situation when US was fighting deflation, the inherent inflationary nature of a war actually helps. But that’s besides the point. It is because of US’s action that OBL is dead and KSM and other top AQ folks are either dead and captured. Sen’s comments fit perfectly to the fatalistic nature of Indian society. Inaction, cowardice are virtues there !!!
In response to Sahar:
Those are good points and we should hear coverage of those incidents as well. But I think terrorist attacks usually bring more coverage and if this had happened in London or in Spain or anywhere in Europe, it would be all over the news. It is worth asking why there is a discrepancy.
Also, 21 is almost certainly a number artificially kept low to minimize risk of violence in India and will be IMHO higher in a week or two.
Well, what I don’t like about the analogy to London in demanding more coverage is that it’s trying to artificially pull Mumbai into the West–that is, it’s asking for similar coverage of terror attacks in NY, London, Mumbai (maybe Delhi). But, the rest of South Asia implicitly stays “out there”–so, attacks in rural Pakistan or Sri Lanka or Orissa implicitly don’t merit much coverage. I don’t view Mumbai as somehow part of the West in this way. So, to me it makes sense that coverage of all of these events is relatively low in the West. Nov. 2008 attacks in Mumbai were different because Westerners were targeted and killed. For the rest of these bombings, what exactly is of interest to the West? I actually found the Sri Lanka story 2 years ago far more interesting because the government actually pressed the issue to the point of wiping out the rebels (along with a lot of civilians). But, people being killed in political violence in Karachi, or yet another bombing in India? It literally is the same old story (which to me, is mostly about incompetent government elites that spend on their own security but don’t care about the people) and same cast of characters. Unless CNN becomes South Asian News it’s actually quite odd to expect heavy coverage. So, what I’m objecting to is some sort of implicit Mumbai-specific entitlement, where Mumbai is some sort of Western outpost in deep, dark South Asia that is entitled to London-level coverage in the West.
Westerners have been targeted and killed before in India (and notably in Indian Kashmir). What made Mumbai different was not that westerners were victims too, but the nature of the attack (amphibious swarm tactics), the length of time (3 days), and the specific targets (international luxury hotels and restaurants). Prior to this attack, the middle and lower classes of India were primarily subjected to terrorism. It’s why after mumbai, you saw moronic socialites on the street for the first time because terrorists had the audacity to burst their ill-gotten elite bubble. Mumbai remains in the news not because it is viewed as a western outpost (that would be a socialite’s dream, but “real india” would beg to differ), but because it is a global economic capital, subjected to prior attacks that nearly led to war between nuclear-armed neighbors. There is no equivalence between this and some haqqani hack getting taken out by a predator somewhere in waziristan.
It not the SAME story. India is suffering from terrorism because Pakistan uses terrorism as a foreign policy tool, actively supports and funds terrorism in India. Fighting in Karachi is power struggle in a lawless country with government functions nonexistent. The story in India and Pakistan is NOT the SAME in fact there is NO similarity between them.
RC — I agree — I meant karachi fighting is the same old story in Pakistan, and an urban bombing is the same old story in India. I didn’t mean the two nations’ stories are the same. Sorry for being unclear.
Satyajit, Well, you make a decent point. Mumbai is somewhat analogous to London in terms of being a financial hub. But, in terms of coverage in the Western media, it’s not just London that gets covered. An attack in the rural UK would get full attention too! So, I think the West covers the West heavily and not so much “standard” attacks outside of the West. My point is not (of course) that Mumbai and Waziristan are equivalent within the south asian context, it’s that it’s not too surprising that both are not of great interest to the West (unless something unusual happens).
In a way it is better that there is not too much coverage. Its bad for business, bad for tourism, and good for the terrorists.. India does not need to be stereotyped as a regular victim of terrorism.
That’s a great point. It seems that, contra me, the terrorists take the Mumbai = London view, because they keep focusing on it. Of course, it may just be a lot easier to pull off attacks there because of all the organized crime and police corruption.
We all know the media tends to cover Ashleys and Brittanys more than Shalikas and Muneeras. The solution is not to demand that the media cover less of the pretty blondes but that they cover more of the browns and blacks as well.
Now let’s extrapolate this fact times 10 to geopolitics. Westerners getting killed in a tsunami will be more heavily covered than a suicide bombing in Peshawar. Western women will go to report on Haiti and come back with PTSD and become the story themselves. Sad but true.
But here are some ways our voices can make a difference. Write a letter to the editor or the ombudsperson. Participate in discussions about stories or become a citizen journalist. Submit story ideas. Let media outlets know what kind of content you’d like to see. The biases are real and there, but we can wear them down.
I just want to say I’m impressed with how relatively civil and respectful the comments are. I always complain about the commenters at Sepia Mutiny, so I wanted to take a moment to thank people for keeping things fairly reasonable and calm in this sad time.
Does anybody else find it exquisitely annoying that whenever media outlets cover a news story about a terrorist attack in India (especially ones though to be perpetrated by Islamic militants be they Pakistani or Indian) they will inevitably bring up Kashmir, Babri Masjid, Gujarat, Hindu ‘fanatics’ or ‘extremists,’ as if these are the sole inciting injustices for terrorist attacks in India? As if Babri masjid never happened and Hindu ‘fanatics’ didn’t exist, Islamic terrorism would cease to exist in India. Despite of course the fact that India has dealt with bombs and riots and attacks well before
Sigh, very well said. How can people go on using the “Ayodhya, Gujarat, Hindu fundamentalist’ excuse to explain or justify every Islamist attack against India? It’s time to say enough is enough. It’s long overdue, actually.
Only India among the nations puts up with this level of terror attack with no response.
Pakistan delenda est.
Life is about incentives. If the government of India and Indian justice system drags its feet, and the punishment to the perpetrators is not consistent and swift, there will most definitely be a similar post next year and years to come. The long arm of the justice system should be able to catch and punish the criminals no matter where they are hidden. Indian government has for too long be complacent in this dept. My thoughts and prayers go to the victims. For the rest of Mumbai… Its high time you stand up and demand accountability from your elected officials.
The reason for civil discussion here is everyone with an opposing view being banned. This site is more liberal than huffingtonpost. I have big issues with Pakistanis…. they have no problem if a Hindu dies.
You’re still here, aren’t you? SM’s ban-hammer rarely falls on anyone, let alone those who dissent. All we ask for is civility, not an echo chamber.
p.s. This blog’s founders leaned everywhere from left to right to independent, but people see what they want to, apparently.
Cowardly & sadistic act of terrorism, most probably by some home grown elements. It will be very interesting to see who’s responsible & why.
@ RC & ShilpaS – are you suggesting India should act swiftly, American style? Should they talk tough, built up army on the border & drop some bombs? Or should they ease tension, do great intelligence work & find/punish the culprits?
I don’t think it’s come to the stage where large-scale retaliation against Pakistan is necessary. I’m in favour of more of an assassination/rendition campaign against the ISI and its minions like LeT. If Israel can take out Hamas leaders in Dubai, I’m not sure why India can’t take out ISI leaders in Pakistan or wherever on the globe they are. India needs to up its intelligence forces to MI-6/Mossad level!
It is better, for now, to destroy the “idea” of Pakistan (two-nation theory, hatred of Hindus, discrimination towards Ahmaadis and Shia) than all of the Pakistani people. Kill those who are advocating killing Indians. Then the rest will fall in line, especially since their economy is falling apart.
So that is why Mumbai is being targeted. And the Gujarat riots against muslims must be the reason why the gujarati sections of Mumbai are being singled out by the muslim terrorists. I believe this is how the ISI justifies its criminal behaviour.
The pakistani instigation of the Khalistan movement was similarly a reaction to India’s role in the creation of Bangladesh in 1971.
I think it is also worth remembering that the mostly hindu Tamil Tigers were the original suicide bombers. The muslim terrorists are aping those sri lankan tamil trailblazers.
Remember that a female tamil tiger suicide bomber succeeded in killing a sitting Indian Prime Minister….Rajiv Gandhi.
I hope you are being ironic, Bombay. If terror-bombing India can be justified by 2000 dead in Gujarat, just think how much terror-bombing or nuclear-bombing of the ummah can be justified by the history of the subcontinent.
$Shipla: “I’m not sure why India can’t take out ISI leaders in Pakistan or wherever on the globe they are. India needs to up its intelligence forces to MI-6/Mossad level!
Quite simply, that is because India’s venal political class starting from Sonia down to Chidambaram are only interested in power and money both ill gotten. Remember, protecting the nation comes last or else we wouldn’t have had the fiasco at Kargil where soldiers froze to the point of losing digits as there were ill equipped. Ditto, going back in time, to the ’62 war and virtually every war thereafter. It is another matter that a couple of the latter wars were won but that is only because the Pakistanis turned out to be even more venal and incompetent.
Expecting RAW to take out ISI leaders is like asking a paraplegic to run a marathon – they simply don’t have the wherewithal.
@ Shilpa – Israel’s hard handed tactics has not produce them any peace, as they live in constant state of fear & paranoia. Targeting ISI leaders means going to war with Pakistan. This will produce nothing, but waste of lives & money. Showing secular & tolerant side will what make India set herself apart from the nuts.
@ Bombay – Hate breeds hate. India must never let extremist Hindus kill minorities again, or at least punish swiftly If someone does. They have failed minorities too many times. Remember 84 attacks on Sikhs where anyone yet has to be punished.
Khalistan movement was largely born out of resentment to Indian Governments very questionable actions than ISI’s smart planning. ISI which is the biggest disaster for Pakistani people, did provide weapons & training to Sikh youth that resulted in killing of over 20,000+ Sikhs in fake encounters with army & Punjab police.
India needs to do whatever it takes, like China & Israel. PR is easily managed in this World, and money talks. If America was constantly being attacked by Canadians or Mexicans…. there would be no support whatsoever for them. I don’t know why some Indians/Indian Origin convince themselves that Pakistan is not fully at fault.
I don’t know if I’m allowed to post things from other sites. This was Salman Rushdie’s take on things after the 2008 attacks. It alludes to what I was saying earlier and something that really resonates with me right now:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZpaTkEZVVlE
The idea of context is very interesting. Arundhati Roy, after the 2008 attacks, wrote a rather empty diatribe entitled “Mumbai was not our 9/11,” where she spent more time talking about Hindu terrorism than Islamic terrorism. It was a bit of a red herring, though again she mentions the idea of context, particularly as it relates to the project of justice. It was a bit odd that after a Pakistani-based Muslim group carried out an attack, she spent more time talking about Hindus and criticizing them. Though my main point in bringing this up is why not the context regarding the origin of Islam itself? Why can blame not be put squarely on the shoulders of Muhammad and Quranic injunctions regarding infidels? It seems an obvious explanation for things, though one that most writers, particularly on the left, decide to ignore. Same can be said about Christian terrorism, as expansionism is inherent to these Abrahammic traditions. Furthermore, why don’t these same commentators from the left point to context and justice with regard to Hindu terrorism?
Again, I don’t know what religious group carried these attacks out. Maybe Muslim? Maoist? Hindus? My point is merely that I don’t understand why we’re so afraid to criticize religion. Is it cause we’re afraid to make people feel bad? Is it too sensitive, too intimate a concept that we can’t take criticism? The point of it is that without introspection, without progressive thought, without critical analysis of one’s own religion, without this criticism, people will live in medieval ways. Without a constant discussion of the things that are wrong, we will never make things right. If there was no progressive thought in Hinduism, casteism would be even worse than it is now. Sati would be an everyday thing.
We need open discussion, and it’s something that I just don’t see happening, particularly when it comes to Islam and Christianity. Look at the way Taslima Nasrin and Salman Rushdie were treated and compare with that the billions of awards given to Arundhati Roy and the veneration given to B.R. Ambedkar
Amen to that. Though don’t expect any of the liberati-secularati in India (Teesta, Javed Akhtar, Shabana Azmi, Arundhati Roy, Barkha Dutt et al) to mention anytime soon, the Religion-That-Should-Not-Be-Named as the main reason which justifies violence against kaffirs. They are good at obfuscating the debate by mentioning Gujarat, Modi, Babri and what they had for dinner – anything but what needs to be said.
Some of those people you mentioned actually made up lies and stories of Hindu ‘fanatics’ killing Muslim families. I have zero respect for cowards like Arundhati Roy who care more about the esteem of the public than it’s welfare.
I find it odd (and by odd i mean hypocritical) that people will dissociate the ‘bad’ from Abrahammic faiths, but suggest that the bad things are inherently part of Hinduism. It’s like that W.E.B. Dubois quote “We fear the evils in us will be deemed racial, while the evils in them will be deemed individual.” So for Hindus in America, we have interpretations (largely by white non-Hindu academicians) shoved down our throat telling us that Ganesh’s trunk IS a penis, caste/racism IS inherent in Hinduism, and that women ARE inferior according to Hindu traditions. These are then codified in the American consciousness (see California textbook controversy) because we have leftist groups who under some vainglorious attempt at ‘broad-mindedness’ and ‘liberalism’ attempt to defame the tradition.
Meanwhile with Islam and Christianity, when someone from those traditions does something stupid, it’s as if they aren’t ‘real’ practitioners. This is less true in the American discourse in Islam where people will point to religious injunctions, but the Indian discourse is too cowardly to make such a point against Islam. My point in saying all this is not to hate on Islam or Christianity necessarily. I think I agree largely with Razib’s thoughts on the hijab and Abercrombie post in this regard. Privileging religious sentiment is counterproductive, dangerous, destabilizing, and amenable to radicalism and closemindedness. We are too afraid hurt people’s feelings and thus the public discourse in India on Islam refuses to say anything. Thus, cowards like Arundhati roy and Amartya Sen bemoan the atrocities of Hindus but will keep their mouth shuts when it comes to Islam.
This is probably wholly irrelevant to the discussion, but I’ve typed it up so whatever ;-).
Hey Anna,
How come people at Sepia Mutiny never threatened to ban Indians like ShilpaS who made disgusting comments against Pakistan, Muslim and Islam? Is sepia mutiny a platform for this BJP-Hindutva jerk to spew their vile and genocidal desires? Unless something is done, I called upon Muslims to boycott this blog.
“particularly when it comes to Islam and Christianity”
Christianity? It is perhaps not criticized in the Indian MSM, but the Western MSM has no fondness for Christianity. It’s kinda cool in Western liberal circles to hate your own – if you’re White, and Christian. There’s a pecking order for liberal loathing, which is essentially the inverted order of what it is for the common, non-liberal, person. This is observable across most liberal/semi-liberal democracies across the world.
Oh, for the love of…let’s not use the victim tag on Sikhs as well. It’s nauseating to constantly hear it with respect to Moslems. Fake encounters and killings of Sikhs? What about the Khalistani terror between 1982- 1992, that killed over 25,000 people. And was responsible for the worst terrorist attack on an airline, Air India, before the World trade centre destruction. Just think, the biggest mass murder in Canadian history, at least as far as we know, was committed by Canada based Sikhs/Khalistanis, who slaughtered 329 people on the Air-Indian flight in 1985.
The smartest thing that anyone has said on here is that India needs to beef up its intelligence services. Any country that wants to be a player needs a rock solid intelligence agency with hard, committed individuals. That is an obvious fact. The problem is that the governmenr is so weak, self-serving and immoral that they don’t have the balls to set one up.
The more one looks at the situation, the more obvious it becomes that what India needs is strong, selfless leaders, who aren’t afraid to stick up for themselves and have some strong pride in themselves and their country. The chances of that happening? Who knows…
@sing…… agree, extremes of all religions should be criticized by majority & marginalized. Muslims are clearly the most intolerant at this point of history. Moderates Muslims need to step up big times. Christian had their bloody rampage in last century & mostly marginalized throughout Europe.
@Aunoonymouse ….. good to have open discussions, no need to boycott & run. There are all kinds of people here, love to hear some more perspectives.
@Varun ….. I am sure if you family was burnt alive in 84 riots & no one was ever punished, you would have a very different view. As for Air India case, no one was ever convicted. After 20 years of investigation, Canadian police could not determine whether it was a terrorist plot or Indian Intelligence’s deliberate attempt to discredit Canadian based extremist. Khalistan cause died because majority Sikhs rejected it.
@Intelligence …. Mossad probably has the best Intelligence in the world, do you see them living in piece?
The Mossad situation is slightly different, I would say. But I would also say that at least they don’t take any sh** and when they need to get things done they get them done. They are fiercely patriotic and stick up for their nation hard. At the very least that gains them respect.
Not only should religious and political extremism be denounced at times like this, so too should claims of some genealogical pure past for the origins of subcultures pushed by others on this site.
I have to say I really don’t understand the predominant Indian stance on this issue. Most of their government’s comments make absolutely no sense. The Home Minister says there was no intelligence failure. Huh? What, in his view, would constitute an intelligence failure, then? Rahul Gandhi says Hindu terror is as great a risk as Islamic terror. Huh? I grew up in Pakistan but that is crazy. Almost all of these attacks in India have been done by groups with links to “jihadi” elements in Pakistan and Bangladesh (Pakistanis should admit this, but also be clear that most people in Pakistan are not supporting it). Does this Indian-ostrich position, honestly, boil down to not wanting to retaliate against anyone for fear of provoking an escalation and hurting the economy? Is the view that India is so vulnerable to attack that it best not stir the hornet’s nest? I don’t understand and am asking in honesty. There is far too little straight talk on this topic. Why are the Indian people allowing the politicians to keep corrupting and not protecting the people? Isn’t India a democracy? It seems as bad for the common man as Pakistan. Living now in America makes it seem extra crazy. If there were an attack here by Pakistanis I am sure the Americans would be killing people with jihadi links in Pakistan tomorrow.
“I have to say I really don’t understand the predominant Indian stance on this issue. Most of their government’s comments make absolutely no sense. The Home Minister says there was no intelligence failure. Huh? What, in his view, would constitute an intelligence failure, then?”
People in positions of power, have a view of the world that is quite different from that of the common man; Because they are privy to information that must be kept confidential. So often, leaders do things that make no sense to the common citizen. On the other hand of course, they could be just corrupt and incompetent.
“If there were an attack here by Pakistanis I am sure the Americans would be killing people with jihadi links in Pakistan tomorrow.”
India currently does not have the air superiority over Pakistan that America enjoys. Then there is the danger that China will join or support Pakistan. India’s rusty old planes (aka flying coffins) regularly fall out of the sky for no reason. If things go as planned, in 5-10 years India will have an up-to-date, formidable air force. It may then have the option of attacking.
I don’t wish harm on anyone. But if it is inevitable that these casualties occur from cross border terrorism, I wish they happen to the politicians and not the common folk. The terrorists get to make a bigger statement with taking out a politician. And the polticians will finally get serious about removing those cockroaches from the face of the earth.
Sahar: “I have to say I really don’t understand the predominant Indian stance on this issue. Most of their government’s comments make absolutely no sense. The Home Minister says there was no intelligence failure. Huh? What, in his view, would constitute an intelligence failure, then? Rahul Gandhi says Hindu terror is as great a risk as Islamic terror. Huh?”
🙂 Now you know why we have the utmost contempt for our government.
First, Rahul Gandhi’s statement is not a government position (hopefully), and came into light thanks only to Wikileaks. He is a moron propped up with his family connections. People like him shut out the hundreds of competent politicians from power.
Nepotism is rampant in parts of India—the cow belt, TN, AP being some prime culprits. At the same time, the strength of India lies in the fact that it isn’t homogenous—a lot of the other regions don’t really care for this brand of politics. Question is, by the next elections, who will prevail? TN and AP have already ousted the “royal” lines, at least this time. Will the cow belt follow?
The intelligence failure angle is a little trickier—the Congress under IK Gujral had dismantled some of the intelligence infrastructure in Pakistan. This statement about no intelligence failure is a ham handed effort to ensure that no one brings that topic up.
JJ: “People in positions of power, have a view of the world that is quite different from that of the common man; Because they are privy to information that must be kept confidential. So often, leaders do things that make no sense to the common citizen. On the other hand of course, they could be just corrupt and incompetent.”
I would go with the later—I would phrase it as “corrupt and maliciously incompetent”.
Comments closed or did I get banned?
America got it right, take the war on their soil. India can never win playing defense. A further disinteration of Pakistan will be good for India, the ISI will be too busy protecting Punjab from other factions of Pakistan. Infighting in Pakistan WILL minimize Indian loss of life. That is the fastest path for India to have peace and prosperity.