The NYTimes takes the time to interview some of India’s youth in preparation for Obama’s visit. This trip will be a good break for both Obama and the rest of us who are sick of American politics. In India there is still hope and change.
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The NYTimes takes the time to interview some of India’s youth in preparation for Obama’s visit. This trip will be a good break for both Obama and the rest of us who are sick of American politics. In India there is still hope and change.
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40% of population is below poverty line ! Wow ! At the same time 2/3 of population is under 35 years old. I agree with the fellow who says the root of all evil in India is “CORRUPTION”.
Obama has to really work hard to get India’s trust. India is still a Bush country.
The trip will achieve nothing substantive. For most part a little business and a little pleasure.
Surprise us Mr. President!!
P.S. Tunku’s column in The Daily Beast a good read.
Oh god, that’s the funniest thing I’ve heard all week. Thanks!
Terrible video! As usual these foreign news agencies take a taxi out of their offices in Delhi, grab a few people on camera and that’s it. It is expensive to cover such a varied land. agreed. But you could at least try?
Corruption in Indian politics has reached an all time high. The opposition doesn’t really do much to expose the ruling party’s corruption because they don’t want the ruling party to expose their corruption when the time comes. Do you ever wonder why right wing organizations like Shiv Sena get involved in so many unlawful disturbances and uncivil protests, but haven’t done much to publicly shame the Congress Party’s corrupt leaders? Maybe because they are corrupt too and they see that as less of a priority than harassing anyone they deem non-Indian? I guess corruption is very Indian in their eyes. Why is the Shiv Sena more concerned with throwing stones at some western show of celebration but won’t throw stones are their corrupt chief minister?
Hope and change in India is nothing like hopy-changy virus that afflicted Americans in 2008, Indians do NOT regard Obama as the messiah. They have begin to understand American politics – by now most Indians have realized that they cannot count on the Democratic led American government. They have highest regard for America and American personalities but they know that they will never get a fair shake with Obama.
Read the Congressional Research Service annual report on US-India relations. Seems to have been dictated by a group of the Cold War containment and JNU style paternalistic academics. If this is what Obama relies on, he will never get it right. He should listen to th enew class of India academics, Nitin Pai, Pratap Bhanu Mehta and Balagangangadhara.
‘ by now most Indians have realized that they cannot count on the Democratic led American government”
America is still the superpower America is still the largest economy America is the biggest customer of India based IT services America provides military aid to Pakistan and recently gave a gratuity of $2 Billion to her servants in the Pakistani Military. […]
“America is still the superpower America is still the largest economy”
So what.
Its a question of mentality. India has to stop acting like the US’s bitch. You never see the Chinese handwringing about what America is or isn’t it. The Chinese go about their business confident in the notion that they will oneday rule the world.
Obama Hussain is a loser and so are his supporters. His desi supporters are the typical lefties from occupied Bangla desh called West Bengal. (This state should never have been partitioned. It should have gone to pakistan were the far lefties can coexist with Islamists).
The Mukerjees and Banerjees and Ghoses and the JNU maoists can sit and cheerlead him along with that Catholic Eva Peron of India (Sonia).
India bas 600 million living in abject poverty because India has for 85% of the time since its independence ruled by one feudal family. The “Intellections” (These Karl Marx regurgitating dolts who have never contributed anything original “intellectuals) keep supporting these Iefties.
Slumdog Millionare was a show piece of what the congress left have done to India.
Indians can’t compete with Pakistan on that front. Pakistanis are willing to Obama the VIP-Franchie treatment and Obama reciprocates. May be Palin is getting it somewhat right – Obama could be a secret Muslim – not that there is anything wrong in that, but he should stop acting like a bitch about it. He should be honest and come out.
I don’t India can rule the world. No matter what India achieves the world will always look upon India like that nerd in school trying to act cool. For most non-Indians, the word India doesn’t conjure up images of power but rather something comical.
For years, China was viewed as being very weak and “the sick man of Asia” until Mao Zedong took over and Deng Xioping set the current course. Many Americans look to India as a solid ally and the future in foreign policy (not only as a counter along with Australia/Taiwan/Vietnam/etc. against China, and possibly Russia—but also as a solid trade partner). China is aging rapidly (their gov’t should liberalize their economy much more and become immigrant-friendly,plus eliminate the hideous one-child policy) and the best years are still ahead for India.
“the best years are still ahead for India.”
Yes….but only if the abject poverty is eradicated.
Can this be accomplished with the scope of the Indian government’s corruption complicit with the Indian middle class’s denial.
“Yes….but only if the abject poverty is eradicated.
Can this be accomplished with the scope of the Indian government’s corruption complicit with the Indian middle class’s denial.”
Only the leftists are defeated can poverty be eradicated. The Nehru feudals have been in power for 85% of the time. Only when this family is eliminated can India even begin to focus on wealth creation. This family and the Bengali Iefties have brought an alien communistic socialistic culture to India. This family and the Bengali Iefties have made wealth creation a shame.
SONIA GANDHI = EVA PERON OF INDIA!
Indian Americans care more about what Obama does for the USA than India. If Obama can shape up his act domestically, it will go a long way to rehabbing his image. FWIW, Obama does realize Pakistan is one of the problems when it comes to terrorism. It took Bush years to figure that out anbd Bush got played by the Pakistani military for many years.
I have no idea on what to do with Pakistan (esp. a nation with nuclear capability).
Yeah, as long as India’s gov’t gets out of the way—-the poor will continue to decrease in numbers over time.
meanwhile… there’s a pack of blokes enjoying this kingdom of wonder
P: “FWIW, Obama does realize Pakistan is one of the problems when it comes to terrorism”
Yes he does, as did most of the previous administrations. His solution, like all administrations in the past, is to secure the west by encouraging the jihadis to kill Indians instead. It isn’t as if US administrations have been stupid all these years and think Pakistan isn’t a problem, they just think Indian lives are not worth chicken feed.
And what does the title even mean? That “the youth” will go and hear Obama’s speech? I doubt Obama even cares enough to give a speech in India. And even if he does, I hope that at least half-intelligent, self respecting kids in India will not waste an hour that could have been spent in so many other better ways.
Abhi/SM Intern: please delete the comment above. It sounds more cynical than even I intended.
who cares about obama? brin, page and zuckerburg need to go south india. bill gates with his foundation money can go to north india. presidential visits matter for sh**ty nations with nothing else but politics going on.
so what do you all make of the young istree-walla who thinks india does not have to change, it’s all destiny, those who proper will, those who don’t will be left behind. i wish i could have heard more of what he thinks, and i am not being cynical. he is among the 40% poor. that is a heck of a lot of people who probably think the same way.
Obama takes India for granted, and he has been hostile to it in numerous ways. After having strongly supported Obama in 2008, and the Dems unconditionally forever, from the 2010 midterms onwards, I have changed my political alignment to being an Independent.
The Democrats will need to EARN my vote and supporter here onwards, and how they treat India (favorably, fairly, unfairly, etc) is one of the important factors in that equation. Any candidate that unfairly fear-mongers about India automatically loses my support.
Obama is the first american president to visit india in the first two years of his presidency. C onsiderhow many times Clinton and Bush visited China before bothering to go to India at the very end of their second terms.
Also, Obama should never be coerced against his will to go to the Golden Temple in Amritsar, just like Nimrata Kaur Randhawa should not be coerced to go to a Gurudwara in South Carolina.
Obama and America in general are natural Indo-philes.
Dhoni, Obama is in India for selling stuff, first and foremost, and that too after the Obama and Co bashed India around unfairly for a month in the midterms.
Although I was a Gore supporter (still am), and I was Bush against while he was in office, in retrospect, it was Bush who sought genuine friendship with India. Not Clinton, and definitely not Obama (although I’d like to pleasantly surprised on this). Bush deserves a LOT of credit for his pro-India approach, and that was one of the best things he did for both India and the US.
How soon a US President visits India is less important that what sort of relationship he is trying to forge. Obama’s attitude has been to demagogue about India when doing politics here, and treat India as if it has money growing on trees, which it doesn’t (India’s per-capita nominal GDP is still $1000, US: $47K and World $8.6K)
boston_mahesh, Obama is, above all, a natural Obama-phile.
Obama isn’t going to win a second term.
Navin, who the hell cares what Bush did with India when he got played by the Pakistani military for so long. All those ridiculous Taliban #2 leader captures they were bragging about to justify our foreign aid to them? So we invade Iraq over questionable WMDs and according to Cheney some questionable isolated contact with Taliban a long time ago, yet we use a terrorist loving Pakistan as our allies? For every Taliban guy they gave up, they used our money to fund other terrorists. Pakistan had as much culpability in 9-11 indirectly as Afghanistan had, and definitely more than Iraq. Yet we wasted 1 trillion dollars and counting on Iraq. Pakistan is still the same mess judging by the fact that terrorists were free to attack India in Mumbai and while we can pretend that has nothing to do with the US, it will indirectly. Remember that guy who got Daniel Pearl killed? He was one of the guys released by the Indian government when an Indian Airlines plane was hijacked to Afghanistan. The US (under Clinton) did not put as much of a high priority on getting him returned to India and it got one of our own citizens killed later on.
If you are that concerned with India, maybe you should worry about India’s troubling decline in free speech rights. What is more maddening is to hear Indians who are settled in the US defend attacks on free speech in India. I wish we could deport these types of Indians and see how they cope with that loss of free speech.
do indian americans care that much about the geopolitical aspect of america’s relationship with india? or are we seeing dbs here?
yes, razib, many indian americans–even in the gen x/y scene–do care that much about the geopolitical aspect of america’s relationship with India. while domestic politics is interesting, the big story this century is the rise of asia and the emerging trilateral relationships between india-china-japan, india-china-america, etc, etc. not only will this impact us here economically, but also politically as tensions will inevitably escalate in the asia-pacific region. it’s something to which all who consider themselves informed should be paying attention.
american policy vis-a-vis the pakistan military is something that not only frustrates indian-americans but also american foreign policy pundits/punditas not of indian descent. neo-realists and neocons alike are beginning to question the returns of this open-ended policy.
the point about free speech is relevant, but should apply as evenly to salman rushdie and taslima nasrin as it does to m.f.hussain and arundhati roy (something not always the case among india’s self-proclaimed “seculars”). in regards to arundhati roy, there is a difference between free speech (i.e. expressing an opinion) and materially inciting and aiding separatism and insurrection (i.e. sedition). the former is a constitutionally protected right while the latter is a criminal act. roy has increasingly blurred the line between the two, which is why there were counter-protests before her residence (also a reasonable exercise in free speech). in any event, the manufactured outrage over the putative “muzzling” of arundhati is somewhat comical (and moot) considering the indian government has all but quashed rumors about filing charges against her.
“the point about free speech is relevant, but should apply as evenly to salman rushdie and taslima nasrin as it does to m.f.hussain and arundhati roy (something not always the case among india’s self-proclaimed “seculars”).”
Bingo!! A point that escapes so many commenters here, perhaps intentionally.
It’s fashionable to shout “right wing” (as one of the columns on this issue of free speech did), but an analysis of facts would show that it’s actually the Left-Congress-Muslim cabal that indulges in a lot more censorship (than the right wing) as well as goes on a rampage.
Case in point: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Calcutta_Quran_Petition
Or take the case of Anas – the guy from Religion of Peace who chopped off a Professor’s hand for exercising free speech, and recently won an election in Ernakulam district on the ticket of Socialist Democratic Party of India.
This is not to absolve Shiv Sena and other goons of their violent acts re: censorship/free speech, but to consistently focus on a “right wing” bogeyman in a bland imitation of US politics, while ignoring the numerous instances of similar censorship and violence done by the Left-Congress-Muslim nexus in India, smacks of ignorance, intellectual laziness or hypocrisy, or a combination of all three.
@razib khan: “db” sounds hostile, what does it mean?
‘do indian americans care that much about the geopolitical aspect of america’s relationship with india?’
Does India become irrelevant once you or your parents crossed a pond or two. Like it or not, anti-India propaganda does and will affect how IA’s get treated here. It is therefore helpful to keep tabs on how India gets tossed around in American politics, know the facts regarding the issues at hand, and defend India based on facts. Maintaining a high geopolitical awareness quotient is useful in the globalized world, in any event.
@Pravin. ‘maybe you should worry about India’s troubling decline in free speech rights.’
If you’re talking about the Angana Chatterji and Richard Shapiro story, Angana is an anti-India hack (at least on the subject of Kashmir), as is her partner (or husband; are they officially married?) Shapiro (based on their columns and other anti-India media work.) Kashmir has been turned into a war zone by Pakistan-trained militants, and in war like conditions, certain restrictions to access apply. The talk about arresting Arundhati Roy was ridiculous, but her remarks should be treated by the Indian society in the same vein as how Rick Perry’s rogue talk about Texas seceding from the union was dealt with, i.e. not warmly. What do these people want (besides drawing attention towards herself in Roy’s case) anyway to become of Kashmir? Another Afghanistan, Tibet, Xinjiang or Pakistan, at the hands of the Chinese and Pakistani regimes?
The most troubling thing about India today is the use of the EVMs in Indian elections, as they can apparently be easily tampered with. Have you heard of the arrest of Hari Prasad, an anti-EVM activist? EFF recognized his efforts with an award recently: 2010 Pioneer Award Winner Hari Prasad Defends India’s Democracy, EFF.
Bush supported India’s presence in Afghanistan (India’s support to the Northern front likely helped in US’ initial military success), during which India contributed towards building roads, schools and other civilian infrastructure (helping undo some of the damage the Pak/ISI supported Taliban did to Afghanistan). Polls showed that the Afghani people were grateful for India’s help. Obama took a Pak-centric approach, similar to what Clinton did in the 90s (he left Afghanistan at the disposal of Pakistan), the result of which was: rise of the Taliban, return of Afghanistan to the 7th century, sanctuary for Jihadists that have India and western targets in their cross hairs, 9/11, etc. I don’t see how Obama’s approach is going to keep Afghanistan from being returned to the pre-9/11 state of affairs when we leave, by the same elements that created the mess in the previous round.
Obama’s hostile approach to India is similar to how takes the progressive base that powered him to victory for granted, to the point of hostility (he dumped the public option that his base badly wanted, and remember the “Professional Left” insult by Gibbs?). I supported Obama because I, like millions of others, fell for the lofty rhetoric of his speeches, but he turned out to be a huge disappointment, one who is an ultra-crafty politician towards his friends and supporters, and a dud when it comes to taking on the Republicans. I wish Al Gore had run in 2008.
Based on a NAAS poll, about 75-80% (scaled up from 53-13% in the poll) of IAs voted for Obama over McCain in 2008. Now compare their recent positions on USNC permanent seat for India:
Obama:
the issue as "very difficult and complicated"' (but I want to sell gazillion dollars of stuff to India, after beating it up during the elections!) McCain:The United States should fully back India’s pursuit of permanent membership on the UN Security Council’Obama and Dems in 2010: feed into the (mostly exaggerated) fears people had about India GOP in general: support India’s rise and give it due respect
GOP Desi politicians’ success: two elected to governorship Dem Desi candidates: all of them lost in 2010 (Cooley also pulled ahead of Harris in the CA AG race), most of them not getting strong enough support even among Dem voters. In 2006, the Dems pulled racist crap against Subodh Chandra in Ohio AG race, and handicapped him in the race.
Looking at these one after the other, its obvious that there is a disconnect between IAs’ support for Dems and how the Democratic party (under Obama) is treating IAs and India. Why shouldn’t the IAs start expecting the Dems to earn the support they’ve been getting for free thus far? It makes good political sense to do so.
To the point of redundancy, I agree with Navin’s comment at November 7, 2010 4:23 AM As someone who supported Obama, he disappointed heavily. I realized the faults and follies of left after this performance. But I do admit that he is in a very tough situation, but he has not taken any action to commend himself so far. Also, I think i am a db, but i would like to know what the acronym stands for?
sorry, i meant DBDs. my D button weren’t workin’ right. desh-born-desis. a replacement for the moderately pejorative term FOBs. i was just curious if the people commenting here in depth on america-india foreign policy are american born or indian born? indian americans obviously are going to have a concern for india, but they’re americans, and americans are famously ignorant about foreign policy. consider the disjunction between the foreign born cubans and native born cubans. the former are the “cuba hawks.” a minority of american born jews are basically “israel firsters” (i’m a blunt dick, so i actually asked friends involved with AIPAC back in college, and these american born kids of jewish religion did at the end admit to being israel firsters. didn’t destroy our friendship, i’m not a hyper-patriot, but it did make me think about the reality of dual loyalties among the ethnically hyper-conscious).
the main issue re: india and america is that india is way too important for an ethnic lobby to effect much change on policy. think of chinese americans and china. china is too important for chinese americans to be primary mediators, as zionist american jews are with israel, cuban americans with cuba, or armernian americans in terms of issues relating to armenia.
my family is from an unimportant country (unless there’s a major natural disaster), so this has never been a big issue with me, though even by those modest standards i’m a resolute america-firster with barely any bangladesh-specific nationalism. talking to indian americans i’ve met through this weblog over the years i’ve become more conscious of the indian nationalism which indian american youth have been inculcated with.* but, at the end of the day indian americans are mostly liberal democrats. if the democratic party went hard-core economic nationalist would these individuals switch to the republicans? it would discomfit many, but in the end of the day they’re liberals, and i think they’d want to change the party from within. domestic american concerns are first and foremost. or at least that’s my impression.
I have problems with what Obama has done his first two years. He has compromised on the wrong things and has been too stubborn on others. The health care bill is a mess. He conitnued Bush’s TARP without getting much in return from Wall Street in the form of reforms or whatever.
Whatever good Bush did with respect to recognizing India’s role in afghanistan is undone by how he botched Afghanistan for so many years because of Cheney’s and the neocons obsession with Iraq. It’s like thw whole surge thing in iraq. Why do I care if Bush got one tactic correct if the main mission itself is flawed. Navin, you can pick and choose what you like about Bush’s policies in Afghanistan from an Indo Centric view, but the point is he bungled Afghanistan and make Pakistan realize early enough we wouldnt fall for the “taliban #2 Leader” captured more than once.
As far as Obama and Pakistan, if you read the Woodward excerpts, it is clear Obama knows that Pakistan is the problem. Where Obama fails is he gets intimidated by “experts” and doesn’t like to lead as much as we like to see him lead. He is surrounded by the Chicago bunch of morons and Gibbs who has no business being in an administration considering he is a campaign guy.
As far as Free speech in India, yes, it is a freaking problem and it has nothing to do with what Roy says or doesn’ feel free to say. Shiv Sena is a menace to free speech and they need a taste of their own medicine where opposing parties threaten that Thackeray family. I frequently hear many Indians talk about how nice it would be if a Hitler type ruled India. Nice sentiments until they become the victim of such a regime.
“Obama’s hostile approach to India is similar to how takes the progressive base that powered him to victory for granted, to the point of hostility (he dumped the public option that his base badly wanted, and remember the “Professional Left” insult by Gibbs?). I supported Obama because I, like millions of others, fell for the lofty rhetoric of his speeches, but he turned out to be a huge disappointment, one who is an ultra-crafty politician towards his friends and supporters, and a dud when it comes to taking on the Republicans”
Obama does take his base for granted and India is no different. Obama’s treatment of the healthcare public option should be a telling reminder of how ruthless a political operator he is. Now unlike Bush, Obama doesn’t use his craftiness to help his most ardent supporters. This is a crucial difference between the republicans and democrats. republicans show deep loyalty to the their core base (the rich, not christians in case you’re wondering) the democrats do not.
Also Navin bear in mind Obama may not WANT to take on republicans. (especially not now!). He wanted to be so well liked by all. More often than not, if you want to be liked by all you will be liked by none.
Some countries are superpowers, some aspire to be superpowers, and some have aspirations of superpower-dom thrust upon them by US foreign policy.
India is being played-up, just to keep China in check.
Can you be a little more shallow and parochial, suede, if that’s possible? There are Indians who want India to become a ‘superpower’, others who oppose it, still others who are indifferent, but who desire that India progress in every phase of life. India is an independent, intelligent, dynamic entity which neither needs nor wants to play a role given to it by another country, in this case supposedly the US. India on its own can play a counter-balancing role, simply by being a democratic, open, free, pluralistic country. And thus countering the Chinese politbureau propaganda that democracy and dynamism cannot go together.
Obama’s health care bill isn’t perfect but at least Obama is helping more of the poorer Americans have access to proper health care. I think some Americans are just too selfish they don’t care about poor people or people that are disadvantaged. I think it is pathetic that United States is the only developed nation on earth that doesn’t have universal health care. Canada, Australia, New Zealand, and the rest of western Europe all have universal health care. I think god I’m not American I can’t imagine living in a country where health care is not accessible for everyone.
In relation to India, I think the Indian government needs to do more to eradicate the caste system. I think the discrimination that Indians experience simply by being born in a certain caste should be against human rights.
I was disappointed listening to the NY Times video and hearing one woman say that she doesn’t care about the poor and that the police will just chase them away.
I think the Indian government should invest more money by providing free education to young women and women instead of wasting money on nuclear weapons. If young men and women become more educated they can help India advance and become a more prosperous nation.
Orville, while your points about the importance of social conscience (whether it’s health care or fighting casteism) are important, the connection to strategic arsenals is neither here nor there. India is surrounded by two nuclear weapon states, both of whom have initiated wars against her, and one of which routinely threatens to use its nuclear weapons for any sort of retaliation against terror attacks, let alone open military conflict. If you invest only in butter without paying attention to guns (or using it wisely), then the people with the guns will one day take your butter–that is how the richest part of the world for most of history became the poorest. You have to spend on both, and that is what India is doing, not because it wants to, but has to (it, btw, only spends around 1.9% of GDP on it’s military–a drop from 2.5% in the previous year and lower than what it’s neighbors spend. if anything, it’s spending may actually have to increase just to keep pace with the neighborhood).
As for casteism, India has actually come a long way. Casteism is illegal under the Indian constitution, and has been since its inception. The drafting of the Constitution was actually overseen by a dalit (aka untouchable) named B.R. Ambedkar. Specific protections against discrimination were put in through the reservation system (similar to affirmative action). By and large, casteism has been diluted in the major metros. While there may be incidents here and there (and caste-based political parties), it is the rural areas that primarily generate the greatest instances of overt discrimination and criminal violations. India still has a way to go, but she has also made great progress, in spite of having to keep both eyes on a rough neighborhood. Civil Rights in the West did not happen overnight. And social progress did not happen by redirecting defense spending to welfare programs (at least in the case of the United States). We, sadly, do not live in such a utopian world where genuine security threats to a country and its people do not exist.
“As for casteism, India has actually come a long way. Casteism is illegal under the Indian constitution, and has been since its inception.”
This is the kind of BS that indians have a notorious habit of spewing. Child slavery is illegal too. Yet India is home to more child bonded labor aka slavery than any other region (not just nation). Likewise casteism continues to have a stranglehold on India. THe reason these violations of human rights continue to thrive despite being made illegal by India’s western inspired constitution is because there is NO will on the part of Indians to enforce the laws because the native culture that condones these abominations is much stronger than the legal system.
“Casteism is illegal under the Indian constitution,”
And yet it is alive and well. Go to any college campus in India and find a couple of differing castes who are in a ‘love’ relationship..all is well at present, they are moving towards marriage…then track them forward when they announce their ‘love’ to their parents. see the HELL they will have to go through to get their parents to agree to the union..it will be 2-4 years of unending torture.
Newsflash, Dev, sex trafficking is illegal in the united states, but as Nicholas Kristof has routinely points out, it still happens stateside. It continues to happen despite being made expressly illegal. Domestic violence still happens, despite being made expressly illegal. Native culture in India has been changing and will continue to change, but that’s no basis to excoriate the entire country. Child labor and trafficking and child labor is absolutely a problem in India and must be addressed. But remember, this is a country facing a myriad of problems, had its economy destroyed through colonialism, bore the brunt of externally financed insurgencies, has 2 nuclear armed neighbors plotting against it, mind-boggling ethno-religious diversity, and 1.1 billion mouths to feed. Change cannot and does not happen overnight. If you are that passionate about stamping out social ills, do something about it. If you already are, post information on how people who want to help can help through your efforts. Otherwise please take a seat next to Arundhati Roy, Pankaj Mishra, and a host of other self-hating Indians who make their living badmouthing the country that fed, educated, and sheltered them. Constructive criticism is absolutely necessary and welcome, but propagandizing is not.
As I have said routinely on this site, untouchability is a tragic legacy that India must come to grips with and appropriately make amends for—and from a governmental perspective, it has. But just like discrimination in the Southern US did not end immediately after the Civil Rights Act was passed, caste discrimination will take time to end as well. The native culture is evolving, is changing, and is attempting to put an end to caste discrimination. It is precisely why a dalit was elected President (Narayanan), why a dalit rules the largest state (Mayawati), and why dalits are able to succeed as businessmen/women and professionals in India’s growing economy. India has a long way to go and change may be too slow, but it does exist, and the will does exist.
And Kidpoker666, really? Intercaste marriage is your lodestone? Do you honestly think every household in the United States is A OK with interracial/interreligious/intersect marriage? Set aside the desi households for now (plenty of time to condemn all things Indian later), and look at the majority community and see what you get. Additionally, do you honestly think that children of CEOs are encouraged to marry children of mechanics? If such marriages do take place, do you think they are easily accepted or welcomed? Caste discrimination is horrible, and I am definitely no advocate of caste endogamy (but it is a real problem when it results in violence and other criminal activity, and even here there is an honor killing law already in the works), but let’s focus on real issues, such as overt discrimination and outright violence against scheduled castes, and not parental disapproval of marriage partners. Your argument is neither here nor there. Let’s get our priorities right.
Satyajit Wry …dude get off your high horse before you hurt yourself 🙂 🙂 🙂
kidpoker666 | November 10, 2010 9:33 PM | Reply
“Satyajit Wry …dude get off your high horse before you hurt yourself 🙂 🙂 :)”
Dude, likewise…”:) 🙂 :)”
…come up with your own style, hack
My, my, so sensitive…” 🙂 🙂 :)”
@Orville “In relation to India, I think the Indian government needs to do more to eradicate the caste system. I think the discrimination that Indians experience simply by being born in a certain caste should be against human rights.”
IMO all of the past Indian government(s) have contributed in some way towards diminishing the negative impact of castism – this is predominantly done via entitlements and programs that are directed towards backward castes. This has given rise to a pretty interesting problem, these days certain communities are agitating to be counted amongst the backward classes. There is a new version of discrimination – established “backward castes” do not any more castes to be counted as backward as this can potentially make race for entitlements more competitive. This is not limited to just Hindus, folks who have converted to Christianity and Islam to escape the “tyranny of Hindu caste system” want to ‘leverage’ the same caste-stigma that they so desperately wanted to erase.
“I think the Indian government should invest more money by providing free education to young women and women instead of wasting money on nuclear weapons. If young men and women become more educated they can help India advance and become a more prosperous nation.”
Education is free to all children till they reach the age of 14 – for girls even university education is free (google “RIght to Education Act”). As for nuclear weapons – IMO these are most cost effective weapons, there is not a cheaper conventional weapon system that provides the same level of deterrence. So, Indians are making good use of their limited resources.
Just some of trivia –
(1) the youngest minister in Jawaharlal Nehru’s provisional cabinet (before independence in 1946) , “Babu Jagjeevan Ram”, belonged to a backward caste – he later became the first labor minster in the union cabinet. (2) A dalit by the name of “Dr B R Ambedkar”, who excoriated Hindus and castism was the architect of Indian constitution.
Whats the point of having laws and rights when they are not enforced? The literacy rate in India is abysmal. Below that of Papua New Guinea. The test for literacy is a joke. Anyone who can sign his name is considered literate.
Only about 7% of indians get an english medium education, the rest who are educated in the native languages are second class citizens. India has HUGE problems. Like Africa it has to import skilled chinese workers to build its infrastructure. How can a country like this claim to have “arrived”?
Dev,
All very relevant points. The literacy rate is abysmal, but it has been increasing steadily (whatever the test may be). The key is investing in education across all levels and providing incentives for impoverished parents to send their children to school (like the free lunch program, etc). It will also require volunteerism on the part of the privileged and middle classes to donate to ngo’s that increase literacy or to volunteer their time to teach subjects in schools suffering from teacher truancy.
The point about infrastructure is valid, but also a result of government not providing incentives for people to consider careers beyond IT. India does need more civil engineers–but infrastructure know how is there, which is why India is actively involved in construction in Afghanistan, Iran, and Myanmar. It is astonishing that India has a government in place that does permit both Chinese engineers and workers to build critical infrastructure in the country. With a little bit of smart investment and incentive-providing, this situation can be easily avoided.
As for education in general, you are right about how an english medium education should be afforded to students from a secondary level onwards, but that doesn’t mean India should be building “Goddess of English” temples and celebrating Macauley’s birthday. India does have a huge problems, but so do other developing countries–even the much vaunted China. China has 200 million migrant workers who could form a peasant army at any time (Imperial China’s historical bete noire), will grow old before it grows rich, does not afford even basic political rights to its citizenry, routinely represses its own Han population protesting property violations and corruption, has increasing class tensions, and faces an unfolding environmental crisis. What China does have is strategically oriented leadership with the foresight to invest in its country’s future–precisely the opposite of what India has. But the test of a country’s political system is not how it manages the good times, but bad times. It will be interesting–though certainly not desirable for its neighbors–to see how China manages possible large scale internal dissension.
India’s democratic system has somehow managed to keep things together even in the worst of times and in spite of generally sub par leaders (with occasional exception–twice by my count). With good, nationally-oriented leadership in power, India can progress tremendously in precisely the areas you’ve identified. But to do that, the average middle/upper class citizen needs to wake up, take his/her democratic responsibilities seriously, and starting voting in leadership that isn’t selected on the basis of loyalty to a particular family, or by blindly accepting the official position that EVM’s are “foolproof”.
*But to do that, the average middle/upper class citizen needs to wake up, take his/her democratic responsibilities seriously, start voting in leadership that isn’t selected on the basis of loyalty to a particular family, and contest the official position that EVM’s are “foolproof”.
I just read this article right now. All I can say is that you know you’re Indian American when you can say
with a straight face. (Or not. I have no idea what the author was thinking.)
On the other hand, reverse brain drain is good for India, so I second this delusion.